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The Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ) Doctrines

The intention of this board is to discuss the teachings of the Iglesia Ni Cristo. The rules are: A) must respect others, B) no profanity, C) no name calling, D) no ANONYMOUS posting, and E) must post in English. Messages that contain profane languages or insulting will be deleted. What can be posted? You may post Church doctrines or questions about the doctrines but not questions about individual or member's deed/practice. As host/administrator, I will remain neutral. This means -I will not comment on any post. I will read the post and then make a judgement whether or not it violates any rule. If it does, it will be removed. Lastly, I'm an X-INC.
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  1. truth no.1 The Great God is the Father alone View Thread - truthfinder on Apr 3, 2014, 3:24 AM
    1. God's scriptures says the One Great God is the Father of Jesus Christ. - Michael on Apr 3, 2014, 8:57 PM
      1. ahhh romans 9:5 you use to contradict the other verses - truthfinder on Apr 3, 2014, 9:41 PM
        1. No. I cited it because it is scriptures. - Michael on Apr 3, 2014, 10:58 PM
          1. ohh ok let's us consult a greek scholar..a trinitarian - truthfinder on Apr 4, 2014, 2:55 AM
            1. You agree with R.S. Frank in this. Yet, you don't agree in his belief that Christ is God. - Michael on Apr 4, 2014, 8:07 AM
              1. that shows how weak is your evidwnce...why dont you refute him. - tf on Apr 4, 2014, 9:56 AM
                1. He is only one among the many trinitarian scholars. He is not all of trinitarians. - Michael on Apr 4, 2014, 10:46 PM
                  1. there are other svholars you know..all trinitarians - tf on Apr 7, 2014, 1:52 AM
                    1. So what TF? Don't INC have FYM's teaching on Romans 9:5? - Michael on Apr 22, 2014, 2:32 AM
                    2. this is proof that your assertions about that verse is nit reliable - tf on Apr 22, 2014, 2:53 AM
                      1. So there is no FYM teaching on this. So you have no refutation to offer. - Michael on Apr 22, 2014, 7:43 AM
                      2. hmmm - tf on Apr 22, 2014, 6:17 PM
                      3. Obviously, this is not FYM's take on the verse, - Michael on Apr 22, 2014, 11:10 PM
                      4. so u r better than ur scholars? - tf on Apr 23, 2014, 7:52 AM
                      5. Post FYM's teaching if there is. Quote FYM, and not from scholars you allege as evil. - Michael on Apr 23, 2014, 1:51 PM
                      6. just admit you are wrong even your fellow trinitarians - tf on Apr 24, 2014, 8:21 AM
                      7. So there is no FYM teaching on this. So you have no refutation to offer. - Michael on Apr 24, 2014, 11:46 AM
                      8. why dont you refute the trinitarian scholars? - tf on Apr 25, 2014, 5:50 AM
                      9. Why bother yourself with that TF? What you must do is . . . - Michael on Apr 25, 2014, 12:38 PM
                      10. so your problem is?? - tf on Sep 11, 2014, 10:24 PM
    2. care to tefute mike - tf on Apr 6, 2014, 9:18 PM
      1. Done already. Have you not read my first response post TF? - Michael on Apr 6, 2014, 11:37 PM
        1. dont play with words my friend..the bible is very clear - tf on Apr 7, 2014, 1:47 AM
          1. If you don't know the difference TF, how can the Bible be clear to you? - Michael on Apr 22, 2014, 2:36 AM
            1. if you are not trinitarian since u r a baby - tf on Apr 22, 2014, 2:55 AM
              1. Apparently you affirmed you don't know the difference. - Michael on Apr 22, 2014, 7:51 AM
                1. no philoeophy christ clearly teaches that we recognize his father as the only true.. - tf on Apr 24, 2014, 8:23 AM
                  1. His Father as the only true God, but not necessarily his Father alone - Tomas on Sep 13, 2014, 2:26 AM
     
  2. Facts about the the Trinity View Thread - truthfinder on Apr 9, 2014, 1:31 AM
    1. Greek Philosophy's Influence on the Trinity Doctrine - truthfinder on Apr 9, 2014, 1:32 AM
    2. Is the Trinity Biblical? - truthfinder on Apr 9, 2014, 1:35 AM
      1. The word Bible is unbiblical just like Trinity - bobbyisfriend on Apr 10, 2014, 9:44 PM
        1. monotheism is not in the bible - tf on Apr 10, 2014, 10:00 PM
        2. Bobby, there is no three persons in one God. - emmanuel on Apr 11, 2014, 6:19 AM
          1. Malachi 2:10 does not say that all of God is the Father. - Tomas on Apr 11, 2014, 10:10 PM
            1. facts cannot be refuted by your assumptions - tf on Sep 11, 2014, 10:26 PM
              1. No, it is your assumption that Mal. 2:10 says that the Father is all of God. - Tomas on Sep 13, 2014, 2:12 AM
     
  3. TOMAS, INCers, INCquisitor: Does to beget means to create? View Thread - Michael on Jul 31, 2014, 3:04 PM
    1. If we follow their line of thinking then, yes... - Albert on Aug 1, 2014, 10:44 PM
      1. This is why I supposed they don't respond to this, as they will find themselves deceived. - Michael on Aug 1, 2014, 10:54 PM
        1. Be patient, I am finally here, on this forum. - Tomas on Aug 1, 2014, 11:06 PM
          1. Sorry Tomas. I would have been clearer as to exclude you there. - Michael on Aug 4, 2014, 5:31 AM
            1. OK, thank you. Apology accepted. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 7:20 AM
    2. No, I would say that Christ was created in the beginning, and not begotten until - Tomas on Aug 1, 2014, 11:04 PM
      1. So Tomas, did your father who begot you created you? - Michael on Aug 4, 2014, 5:28 AM
        1. He created me in cooperation with my mother. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 7:53 AM
          1. Re: He created me in cooperation with my mother. - Michael on Aug 14, 2014, 4:26 AM
            1. We can create things. - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 6:02 AM
              1. So now, you say man can create things and so is a creator, like God? - Michael on Aug 20, 2014, 7:48 AM
                1. OK, it is again a matter of semantics, what does the verb create mean. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 7:30 PM
        2. Re: So Tomas, did your father who begot you created you? - INCquisitor on Aug 10, 2014, 10:25 AM
          1. INCQUISITOR, did your father who begot you created you? - Michael on Aug 10, 2014, 1:14 PM
            1. Psalm 2:7 does not prove that Christ pre-existed. - INCquisitor on Aug 10, 2014, 5:24 PM
              1. Explain that to yourself INCQUISITOR. - Michael on Aug 10, 2014, 10:09 PM
     
  4. Scriptures that testify of the deity of Christ. John 5:18 View Thread - Michael on Jul 7, 2014, 12:57 PM
    1. Compare John 5:18 with John 10:29 and John 14:28. - INCquisitor on Jul 7, 2014, 3:27 PM
      1. INCquisitor, John 5:18 is a statement of truth, not some conclusion by John, who wrote it. - Michael on Jul 8, 2014, 12:00 AM
        1. Whose "statement of truth" is John 5:18? Yours, the Jews or John? - INCquisitor on Jul 8, 2014, 4:40 AM
          1. If you don't know it yet, it is John who wrote and testified in John 5:18 - Michael on Jul 8, 2014, 12:47 PM
            1. Tell me, how did John know what the Jews were thinking? - INCquisitor on Jul 8, 2014, 5:35 PM
              1. Do you really ask that? How did John knew what he wrote, except that - Michael on Jul 8, 2014, 11:17 PM
                1. The Holy Spirit inspired John to write what the Jews were thinking. - INCquisitor on Jul 9, 2014, 4:33 AM
                  1. The HS inspired John to write in Jn 5:18, why the Jews sought all the more to kill Jesus. - Michael on Jul 9, 2014, 4:29 PM
                    1. Apparently, INCquisitor is stalled by this post. - Michael on Jul 24, 2014, 1:33 AM
              2. LOL, "how did the John know what the Jews were thinking?" THAT question can only be asked - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 16, 2014, 3:43 PM
                1. Exactly my point Guenter. You got it. - Michael on Jul 16, 2014, 10:16 PM
                  1. Of course, anybody in good command of the English and other languages will understand it - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 17, 2014, 8:18 AM
                2. It is NOT true that Jesus made himself equal with God. - INCquisitor on Jul 17, 2014, 5:24 PM
                  1. You need to work on your language skills and knowledge of Judaic Law! - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 17, 2014, 8:58 PM
                    1. My language skills are fine and I do not need Judaic law. I'm not a Jew. - INCquisitor on Jul 19, 2014, 6:20 PM
                      1. Here ya go my friend, you do not need to know...YES, you DO need to know because Judaic - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 20, 2014, 11:49 AM
                      2. The Jews sought to kill Jesus because they THOUGHT,... - INCquisitor on Jul 20, 2014, 2:50 PM
                      3. My last response to you, dear friend. If you don't get it, you'll never get the truth. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 20, 2014, 3:28 PM
                      4. The WISDOM of God is truly HIDDEN from the perishing! - INCquisitor on Jul 25, 2014, 5:43 PM
                      5. I agree INCquisitor, that the wisdom of God is hidden from those perishing. - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 1:55 AM
                      6. INCquisitor, I can see that the truth shall not only set you free, but stalled you as well - Michael on Aug 14, 2014, 11:55 PM
              3. Here, let me try to help you out INCquisitor. - Michael on Jul 20, 2014, 10:04 PM
                1. Apparently, INCquisitor again is stalled b y this post. - Michael on Jul 24, 2014, 1:34 AM
    2. Tomas, TF, care to comment? - Michael on Jul 9, 2014, 4:32 PM
      1. Yes, the hostile Jews thought that when Christ called God his - Tomas on Jul 11, 2014, 7:23 PM
        1. Perhaps you can point that out in John 5. And I say that is your assumption, not the Jews. - Michael on Jul 12, 2014, 2:00 PM
          1. Just because he stated he works on the Sabbath, by - Tomas on Jul 18, 2014, 11:13 PM
            1. Tomas, study carefully John 5:18. - Michael on Jul 22, 2014, 6:18 AM
              1. John says the hostile Jews gave reasons for wanting to kill Jesus. - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 12:39 AM
                1. Tomas you really need to study John 5:18, and also what Sabbath is. - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 4:19 AM
                  1. To break a law is to sin. - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 4:30 AM
                    1. I agree. But I did not say that Jesus have broken the Law, did I? - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 6:36 AM
                      1. No, you did not. But did the Father break the Sabbath? - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 3:26 AM
                      2. Tomas, why do you ask if the Father broke the Sabbath? Is he a man under the law? - Michael on Aug 8, 2014, 6:54 AM
                      3. Well, the Son did not break the Sabbath either. - Tomas on Aug 8, 2014, 11:55 PM
                      4. Re: Well, the Son did not break the Sabbath either. - Michael on Aug 15, 2014, 1:56 PM
                      5. The Son, being the Son, did not break the Sabbath. - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 2:45 AM
                      6. The Son, Jesus Christ, fulfilled the whole Law, including the Sabbath. - Michael on Aug 22, 2014, 12:41 AM
                      7. Of course he fulfilled the whole Law, including the laws he revealed. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 2:33 PM
        2. Tom, you are as language impaired as INCquisitor. For more details see my response to him. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 16, 2014, 3:50 PM
          1. No, all in John 5:18 was the thinking of the hostile Jews. - Tomas on Jul 18, 2014, 11:25 PM
            1. You're calling John a liar. According to Judaic Law, Jesus, if he were a mere man, - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 19, 2014, 9:46 AM
              1. John is not telling us that Jesus is equal with God. - INCquisitor on Jul 20, 2014, 3:14 PM
                1. You're repeating yourself. See my "very last response". - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 20, 2014, 3:31 PM
                2. So INCquisitor, you're saying that John lied. - Michael on Jul 24, 2014, 10:52 AM
                  1. As I just told Guenter, John did not lie but reported truthfully - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 12:55 AM
                    1. John did not report, rather he stated a situation and the reason thereof. - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 4:31 AM
                      1. Michael, I totally agree with you. You're not language impaired like Tomas and Incquisitor - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 26, 2014, 9:52 AM
                      2. :) - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 10:38 AM
                      3. Michael, John stated the reasons the hostile Jews gave. - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 3:30 AM
                      4. John 5:18 is not about John agreeing or not. He just stated a situation & the reasons. - Michael on Aug 4, 2014, 8:36 AM
                      5. The situation, the reasons, is what the hostile Jews charged him with. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 12:00 AM
                      6. Tomas, answer the simple question. - Michael on Aug 14, 2014, 11:42 PM
                      7. I am answering it. - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 2:52 AM
                      8. Tomas, my comments on your answers. - Michael on Aug 21, 2014, 1:42 PM
                      9. My comment to your comments. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 2:41 PM
                    2. Tomas, Jesus clearly broke the Sabbath according to Judaic Law as a mere human being. THAT - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 26, 2014, 9:48 AM
                      1. Yes, but Jesus gave them a new law, the law that says - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 3:39 AM
                      2. Here ya go, Jesus broke Judaic Law and needed to be stoned to death. It's not only the - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Aug 2, 2014, 10:23 AM
                      3. In their eyes, yes. But not in the eyes of God, - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 12:09 AM
              2. No, Guenter, I am not calling John a liar. John truthfully - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 12:52 AM
                1. Tomas, Tomas! How many Jews broke the Sabbath in those times? None but Jesus? And any time - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Jul 26, 2014, 10:11 AM
                  1. Yes, plenty of Jews broke the Sabbath, especially in those times - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 4:14 AM
                    1. You're writing too much. Why are you wasting your an my time to explain what we agree on, - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Aug 2, 2014, 10:19 AM
                      1. No, I did not say only Jews are affected by that Law. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 12:19 AM
        3. It's what you say Tomas, not the apostle John said and wrote. - Michael on Jul 22, 2014, 6:20 AM
          1. Do you think Jesus really broke the Sabbath? - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 12:59 AM
            1. Tomas, not that it is what I think, but it is what John tells us. But, - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 4:39 AM
              1. John tells us the reasons the hostile Jews gave, - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 4:17 AM
                1. Tomas, he could have. But you must try to understand what John 5:18 plainly says. - Michael on Aug 8, 2014, 9:20 AM
                  1. I do understand what John 5:18 plainly says. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 12:44 AM
                    1. Oh, do you Tomas? - Michael on Aug 14, 2014, 11:29 PM
                      1. Yes, but you don't, you think John agreed Jesus did so. - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 3:24 AM
                      2. Tomas, there is nothing John should agree or disagree with the Jews. He wrote the truth. - Michael on Aug 22, 2014, 3:51 PM
                      3. John wrote the truth about what those Jews claimed. But he did not agree. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 3:16 PM
     
  5. Who was John speaking about in 1 John 3:5, who was manifested to take away sin? View Thread - Michael on Jul 10, 2014, 6:29 AM
    1. INCquisitor, Tomas, TruthFinder? - Michael on Jul 11, 2014, 1:03 AM
    2. It is not the 'whoever' of verse 4, a new subject was introduced - Tomas on Jul 11, 2014, 7:18 PM
      1. Didn't quite get what you are saying there about 'whoever' - Michael on Jul 13, 2014, 1:49 AM
        1. The grammatical subject in 1 John 3:4 is 'whoever'. - Tomas on Jul 19, 2014, 12:30 AM
          1. Oh. Ok. - Michael on Jul 20, 2014, 12:48 AM
            1. Yes, in ASV the subject in verse 4 is "every one that doeth...". - Tomas on Jul 26, 2014, 4:20 AM
              1. Re: Yes, in ASV the subject in verse 4 is "every one that doeth...". - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 8:19 AM
                1. The Father too will be manifested. - Tomas on Aug 2, 2014, 4:58 AM
                  1. Re: The Father too will be manifested. - Michael on Aug 8, 2014, 1:18 PM
                    1. The Father will come. - Tomas on Aug 8, 2014, 9:31 PM
                      1. The Son is Him who will come. He's the one I'm waiting for to come. How 'bout you Tomas? - Michael on Aug 15, 2014, 2:04 AM
                      2. I am waiting for both to come. - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 1:56 AM
                      3. Is that so w/ you Tomas? When will the Father come? Before or after the Son, or together? - Michael on Aug 22, 2014, 2:48 AM
                      4. Maybe together, or maybe one will shortly follow the other. - Tomas on Aug 30, 2014, 9:40 AM
    3. why he has no sin?is it because he is God? - tf on Jul 19, 2014, 3:05 AM
      1. That is not the question TF. Pls take a hold of your comprehension. - Michael on Jul 19, 2014, 8:08 PM
        1. im stating a fact on the issue of sin - tf on Jul 26, 2014, 10:17 AM
          1. Well TF, perhaps you can state that elsewhere, and stick to the topic at the OP. - Michael on Jul 26, 2014, 10:35 AM
    4. What do you want to hear Michael? - INCquisitor on Jul 19, 2014, 5:31 AM
      1. Your answer INCquisitor. - Michael on Jul 19, 2014, 8:06 PM
    5. John was speaking of Christ Jesus, whom God manifested - INCquisitor on Aug 8, 2014, 5:46 PM
      1. Re: John was speaking of Christ Jesus, whom God manifested - Michael on Aug 15, 2014, 9:22 PM
      2. And INCquisitor, who do you say is Him spoken in 1 John 2:28-29? - Michael on Aug 15, 2014, 9:33 PM
        1. A follow up on this INCquisitor. Hope you were not stalled yet again. - Michael on Aug 27, 2014, 8:49 AM
    6. How about you TF? Running away from this? - Michael on Aug 27, 2014, 8:51 AM
     
  6. OK, Michael, these forums are taking too long, View Thread - Tomas on Aug 16, 2014, 10:05 AM
  7.  
  8. what is America coming too does it any backbone anymore? View Thread - year2027 on Aug 16, 2014, 9:54 AM
  9.  
  10. the wolf in sheeps clothing according to the bible fulfilled View Thread - tf on Jul 2, 2014, 1:58 AM
    1. The wolf in sheep's clothing is fulfilled by Felix Manalo. - Dean O'Gowan on Jul 2, 2014, 8:05 AM
      1. instead of accusation..please comment on these facts about your popes? - tf on Jul 2, 2014, 10:40 PM
        1. Pope Fiction - Inhinyero on Aug 4, 2014, 1:55 PM
        2. More pope fiction - Inhinyero on Aug 4, 2014, 2:05 PM
    2. tf, your reference is Shell Harris, a web developer. That is his credential. - Dean O'Gowan on Jul 3, 2014, 3:34 PM
    3. tf, if you have a toothache, are you going to see Shell Harris? - Dean O'Gowan on Jul 4, 2014, 8:43 PM
      1. Do you deny that a few popes were clearly unsaved, - Tomas on Jul 5, 2014, 1:34 AM
      2. Tomas, it's not your business if any pope goes to hell or not. - Dean O'Gowan on Aug 5, 2014, 3:57 PM
        1. It just proves TF is right, some popes were wolves in sheep's - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 5:58 AM
     
  11. Since INC members seemed to have left their sinking ship here, and INCquisitor and Tomas View Thread - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Aug 9, 2014, 2:13 AM
    1. I wish you a nice leave of absence. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 5:54 AM
      1. Actually, wrong wording. - Tomas on Aug 9, 2014, 5:55 AM
     
  12. INC doctrine that only messengers of God are authorized View Thread - INCquisitor on Feb 1, 2014, 6:19 PM
    1. I am sorry that you encountered a minister who was so impoliteq - Tomas on Feb 8, 2014, 12:15 AM
      1. Examples are NOT enough to NEGATE the words of Jesus. - INCquisitor on Feb 8, 2014, 6:43 AM
        1. The examples prove Jesus told them they can now worship him and - Tomas on Feb 15, 2014, 3:54 AM
          1. LOL, Tomas. What happened to "you shall not ADD to what is written", as you elsewhere - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Feb 17, 2014, 6:24 PM
            1. I don't add to the Bible. But trying to figure out - Tomas on Feb 22, 2014, 4:20 AM
              1. Sorry, my friend, but you do add to scriptures. You are trying to figure out what is NOT - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Feb 24, 2014, 12:55 AM
                1. I am like other Christians, trying to figure out what the verses - Tomas on Mar 1, 2014, 12:23 AM
                  1. Lame excuses, you're ADDING to the scriptures when you're saying Jesus must have told - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Mar 2, 2014, 8:14 AM
                    1. No verse has to say it in such words, it is still explicit - Tomas on Mar 8, 2014, 12:23 AM
              2. Christ established a church.... - Inhinyero on Aug 4, 2014, 1:47 PM
          2. Don't you know what facts and opinions do? - INCquisitor on Feb 23, 2014, 8:45 AM
            1. If it were important for Jesus to rebuke them for worshipping him, - Tomas on Mar 1, 2014, 12:35 AM
              1. Your lack of faith in the words of Jesus shows. - INCquisitor on Mar 1, 2014, 7:05 AM
                1. I believe all the words of Jesus. He said worship God, but - Tomas on Mar 8, 2014, 12:35 AM
      2. My minister called me an idiot after I told him about his errors. That was in Houston, TX. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Feb 17, 2014, 6:16 PM
        1. So sad you had such bad experiences. - Tomas on Feb 22, 2014, 4:48 AM
          1. Tomas, you cannot serve two masters. - INCquisitor on Feb 23, 2014, 8:51 AM
            1. INCquisitor..Tomas only serves ONE master: Tomas! By the way, INCquisitor, thank you for - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Feb 24, 2014, 1:04 AM
              1. If anyone deviates from any of Jesus' teachings, he does not have God? - Tomas on Feb 28, 2014, 11:39 PM
                1. What part of " Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Mar 2, 2014, 7:45 AM
                  1. If you believe we have to be infallible to be saved, then I guess - Tomas on Mar 8, 2014, 1:16 AM
            2. INCquisitor, I serve only God and Jesus, not any evil master, - Tomas on Feb 28, 2014, 11:25 PM
              1. You are wrong Tomas. Trinitarian churches do not have God. - INCquisitor on Mar 1, 2014, 7:52 AM
                1. You're still misunderstanding John 17:3. But you're absolutely correct, there is no - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Mar 2, 2014, 8:28 AM
                  1. The word "Father" needs no modifier. - INCquisitor on Mar 2, 2014, 11:00 AM
                    1. Fine, just remain in your error. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Mar 2, 2014, 4:13 PM
          2. In my experience, what happened to me is typical INC behavior, even to their own members. - Guenter (EX-INC Bible Student) on Feb 24, 2014, 1:12 AM
            1. If that were typical, that would be sad for INC. - Tomas on Mar 1, 2014, 12:00 AM
     
 
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