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The Myth of Papal Infallibility. Here's the historical proof of Papal FALLIBILITY.

May 27 2005 at 1:26 AM
csdr  (Login csdr)

 
Papal infallibility is the idea that the pope is infallible, that is, he is unable to err in teaching revealed truth. Many lay Catholics are under the impression that this is an old doctrine of the church which must be pretty well proven for their church to use as one of the main tenets of their faith. They are wrong on both counts:

Papal infallibility is a very recent doctrine.
Historical evidence clearly speaks against papal infallibility.


Proof of Papal Fallibility

Even the limited definition of papal infallibility to ex-cathedra [a] pronouncements on faith and morals can be shown to be inconsistent with the historical evidence. Let us look at a few examples.

Pope Liberius and the Arian Controversy

Our first example is Pope Liberius (who was pope from 352 to 366). Elected pope during the height of the Arian controversy, he was sent into exile by Emperor Constantius II (337-361) for refusing to condemn Athanasius. While in exile his morale collapsed. He then condemned Athanasius and accepted an alternative creed to the Nicene Creed. This alternative creed rejected the Nicene formula for the Son being "one in being with the Father" and suggested that the Son is lower than the Father. This is clearly a non-orthodox formula. It was only after the declaration that Liberius was allowed to return to Rome. After the death of Constantius II in 361, Liberius reverted back to Nicene orthodoxy. However the point has been made. Here is one pope whio made a pronouncement of faith which is today looked upon as heretical.[5]

Pope Vigilius and the Three Chapters Controversy

Next on our list is Pope Vigilius (in office, 537-555). Our interest here is in his position with respect to the "Three Chapters Controversy". The Emperor Justinian (483-565), in his effort to win over the monophysites, condemned as heretical the "Three Chapters": which stands for the Christological speculations and teachings of Theodore of Mopsuestia (d.428), Theodoret of Cyrrhus (d. c458) and Ibas of Edessa (d.457). The three chapters wrote on the "two natures" of Jesus: a concept not condemned as heretical by the Council of Chalcedon (451). As emperor, he ordered all the bishops throughout Christendom to endorse his condemnation.

Vigilius, at first, refused to give his approval to Justinian's edict. He was forcibly brought to Constantinople, and, seeing the emperor's determination on the matter, agreed to condemn the Three Chapters. This met with disfavor by the western church. A synod of African Bishops excommunicate him for his condemnation. In an effort to placate the western church, Vigilius withdrew his condemnation. This, again, met with imperial disfavor. The pope was caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. Seeing that recalcitrant bishops were either jailed, deposed or exiled by the emperor, Vigilius decided to safe his own hide. He informed the emperor that he had been misled by the devil to withdraw his condemnation of the Three Chapters! In other words he said, the devil made him do it; sounds familiar? He was then allowed by the emperor to return to Rome to resume office. The Three Chapters Controversy was one of the historical evidence brought forward by some bishops in the First Vatican Council to oppose the doctrine of papal infallibility.


Pope Honorius and Monothelitism

The case of Pope Honorius I who was pope from the year 625 to 638 is enough to prove this point. Honorius I agreed with the bishop of Constantinople that Jesus had only one will. This doctrine, called monothelitism was later declared heretical by the Council of Constantinople in the year 681. Here then, is a case where a pope made a pronouncement on a matter of faith (concerning the nature of Jesus) which was subsequently condemned as heretical. In fact the newly appointed pope, Leo II (pope from 682 to 683), publicly condemned Honorius II for undermining the faith of the Church. [7]
The Catholic Church today is still as dogmatic as ever in holding on to this doctrine.

 
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FTT
(Login fromthetrenches)

do the catholics have any response to this?

May 27 2005, 5:53 PM 

nt

 
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csdr
(Login csdr)

I know their alibi. Those Popes were "standing" when they issued their erroneous rulings.

May 27 2005, 10:19 PM 

The Pope is supposed to be SITTING ON HIS CHAIR to be fallible.

 
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csdr
(Login csdr)

correction.... to be infallible

May 27 2005, 10:26 PM 

:)

 
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VoiceintheWilderness
(Login VoiceintheWilderness)

csdr. you should know better than that. Ex Cathedra does not mean literal

May 27 2005, 11:19 PM 



from the chair. It means it's official.

The Pope is infallible only when he declares matters of faith and morals and when he declares so ex cathedra meaning it's official from the office of St. Peter.


Similarly the President of the United States makes a lot of speeches, but they are not binding unless he signs executive orders.




 
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csdr
(Login csdr)

Voice, in RCC's 2000 years history how many times did her Pope use his "ex-cathedra"?

May 28 2005, 12:36 AM 

:)

 
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csdr
(Login csdr)

Did the Pope declare "Christ is God" in "ex-Cathedra"?

May 28 2005, 12:38 AM 

"Christ is God" is a matter of faith isn't?

 
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csdr
(Login csdr)

During the darkest period in the church history (Arian Controversy) why did the Pope......

May 28 2005, 12:43 AM 

.... NOT USE his power to proclame the most important doctrine concerning faith (the divinity of Christ) in "ex-Cathedra"? That could have ended the Arian controversy outright assuming all the churches recognized the infallibility of the Roman Pope.

 
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csdr
(Login csdr)

I mean "proclaim"

May 28 2005, 12:50 AM 

:)

 
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csdr
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I mean exactly that as you say. I am speaking figuratively.

May 28 2005, 12:51 AM 

:)

 
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csdr
(Login csdr)

You mean the President can retract whatever he says to Congress?

May 28 2005, 1:01 AM 

.... during his state of the nation address?

 
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(Login GCancio)
Moderator

Point by Point Response... (this is old stuff, pala)

May 28 2005, 5:00 AM 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm

(... cut and paste answer to a cut and paste charge)



OBJECTIONS ALLEGED

The only noteworthy objections against papal infallibility, as distinct from the infallibility of the Church at large, are based on certain historical instances in which it is alleged that certain popes in the ex cathedra exercise of their office have actually taught heresy and condemned as heretical what has afterwards turned out to be true. The chief instances usually appealed to are those of Popes Liberius, Honorius, and Vigilius in the early centuries, and the Galileo affair at the beginning of the seventeenth century.

Pope Liberius. Liberius, it is alleged, subscribed an Arian or Semi-Arian creed drawn up by the Council of Sirmium and anathematized St. Athanasius, the great champion of Nicaea, as a heretic. But even if this were an accurate statement of historical fact, it is a very inadequate statement. The all-important circumstance should be added that the pope so acted under pressure of a very cruel coercion, which at once deprives his action of any claim to be considered ex cathedra, and that he himself, as soon as he had recovered his liberty, made amends for the moral weakness he had been guilty of. This is a quite satisfactory answer to the objection, but it ought to be added that there is no evidence whatever that Liberius ever anathematized St. Athanasius expressly as a heretic, and that it remains a moot point which of three or four Sirmian creeds he subscribed, two of which contained no positive assertion of heretical doctrine and were defective merely for the negative reason that they failed to insist on the full definition of Nicaea.

Pope Honorius. The charge against Pope Honorius is a double one: that, when appealed to in the Monothelite controversy, he actually taught the Monothelite heresy in his two letters to Sergius; and that he was condemned as a heretic by the Sixth Ecumenical Council, the decrees of which were approved by Leo II. But in the first place it is quite clear from the tone and terms of these letters that, so far from intending to give any final, or ex cathedra, decision on the doctrinal question at issue, Honorius merely tried to allay the rising bitterness of the controversy by securing silence. In the next place, taking the letters as they stand, the very most that can be clearly and incontrovertibly deduced from them is, that Honorius was not a profound or acute theologian, and that he allowed himself to be confused and misled by the wily Sergius as to what the issue really was and too readily accepted the latter's misrepresentation of his opponents' position, to the effect that the assertion of two wills in Christ meant two contrary or discordant wills. Finally, in reference to the condemnation of Honorius as a heretic, it is to be remembered that there is no ecumenical sentence affirming the fact either that Honorius's letters to Sergius contain heresy, or that they were intended to define the question with which they deal. The sentence passed by the fathers of the council has ecumenical value only in so far as it was approved by Leo II; but, in approving the condemnation of Honorius, his successor adds the very important qualification that he is condemned, not for the doctrinal reason that he taught heresy, but on the moral ground that he was wanting in the vigilance expected from him in his Apostolic office and thereby allowed a heresy to make headway which he should have crushed in its beginnings.

Pope Vigilius. There is still less reason for trying to found an objection to papal infallibility on the wavering conduct of Pope Vigilius in connection with the controversy of the Three Chapters; and it is all the more needless to delay upon this instance as most modern opponents of the papal claims no longer appeal to it.


 
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(Login WinSurfer)

Bump For CSDR (nt)

June 1 2005, 8:28 AM 

.

 
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