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P-51 heads

June 19 2005 at 6:57 PM
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kelly T richardson  (Login bigblock79)
from IP address 207.225.34.108

any word on production yet? really like the info I have seen so far!

 
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AuthorReply


(Login ScottJ429)
131.191.33.129

I am awaiting word from Jon Kaase with regard...

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June 20 2005, 1:28 AM 

...to initial availability and time frame.

I will post information as I receive it...




Regards,
Scott Johnston / RHP

http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com

Complete list of product and services:
http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/products_index.html


 
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kelly T richardson
(Login bigblock79)
209.210.94.34

Re: I am awaiting word from Jon Kaase with regard...

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June 20 2005, 10:49 AM 

very nice, I'm stashing away money for the new heads !

 
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(Login cletus66)
205.188.116.134

Me too!!!!!!!..........n/m

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June 20 2005, 1:09 PM 

n/m

 
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(Login ARoot)
69.231.140.30

Soon

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June 20 2005, 7:26 PM 

The latest iteration of the head has been sent to Kaase for his evaluation. We made some changes to the porting in the intake valve bowl. Basically, as soon as we can get the "out of the box" flow numbers over 400 cfm, we will move forward with the first production run. I think we're there but Jon has to bless it first.

 
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S. LEONARD
(Login 1961GALAXIE)
4.183.128.2

Sounds good - Mr ROOT are you going to cast that tunnel ram still?

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June 20 2005, 10:10 PM 

Also can you guys pick up the exhaust port a little while your tweaking?

 
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(Login l-evans7)
69.166.129.47

ME TOO .

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June 20 2005, 10:33 PM 

SCJ T.R. Cash in hand !

 
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(Login theemudracer)
152.163.100.130

Alan Root,

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June 20 2005, 10:37 PM 

Please post here more often. I promise we wont bug you to much.


thanks Jon

Jon Thee

 
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(Login ARoot)
69.231.140.30

SCJ Tunnel Ram

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June 21 2005, 5:00 PM 

I have two castings here that I haven't machined as of yet. Lem, you have first right of refusal on one of them as promised.

The thing Kaase hasn't mentioned was that Ford screwed me out of machining the 351 aluminum blocks as well as the SCJ heads and, all at the same time. That was about $700,000 a year worth of machine work that disappeared instantly and without any notice. I guess when Lyons retired the integrity left with him. Needless to say I have been very busy trying to find new work for this business.

My focus right now is to get the P-51's sorted out and on the shelf. Then I will get back to the tunnel ram. End of the year to first of next, in stock. I promise!

 
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(Login thepaduck)
24.166.89.249

P 51

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June 21 2005, 5:49 PM 

Say, What kind of deal does Jon have for those of us that though the last set he came up with was the best??? Pass the vaseline please!

You can't fly with your wheels on the ground!

 
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(Login rmcomprandy)
4.229.105.244

It's called...moving FORWARD...!

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June 21 2005, 9:34 PM 

At one time the "8 track tape player" was the best, also. THINGS CHANGE in this world...

 
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(Login c.evans)
152.163.100.130

Tunnel Ram R&D

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June 21 2005, 7:17 PM 

Allen,

We're screwing together a stout little 533 CID engine right now with Ford Kaase SCJ heads that flow just at 400 cfm. It's a dry sump engine with a Comp Cams roller and a couple of nice Quick Fuel carbs on a ported Weiand tunnel ram. We'll be doing some dyno testing and will be glad to dyno the new Kaase/Root tunnel ram in some back to back testing. Please just go ahead and send one of those tunnel rams to Lem and we'll let you know the results first!

Charlie Evans

 
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(Login kim524)
209.181.122.122

I got a 525 wet sump that would turn 10,000

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June 21 2005, 8:40 PM 

All it needs is a set of real heads, an intake, and of course a little better carberation. Ill crate it and send it for a dyno mule, for the donation of the above parts...



 
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(Login l-evans7)
69.166.129.47

Re: SCJ Tunnel Ram

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June 21 2005, 7:25 PM 

Okay , sent it on when you get to it .

 
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(Login kim524)
209.181.122.122

AR, thats not the first time Ford's forked you over.

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June 21 2005, 8:37 PM 

I still got a set of the J302 heads on a shelf as proof of when the deals first started, (AR prominantly cast in head) and when ford took the casting and ran...... not to mention comming out with K302 variant.

Seems to be the blue ovals monicar, to rape the people that serve them.

Glad to see you still doing business, and better, glad to see you still atached to people where handshakes are business deals. Damn Lawyers and legaleze...

As stated above, don't be a stranger. Its a hell of a forum, and you could really help the faithful!

 
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(Login rmcomprandy)
4.229.105.244

On Center Guides...???

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June 21 2005, 9:31 PM 

Are you gonna fix the problem that the SCJ's had with machining the guide hole AFTER the valve guide is installed. You can't replce a guide without totally destroying the valve placement. Yhe factory Big Block Chevy used to also have this MAJOR problem when replacing guides.

 
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(Login ARoot)
69.231.140.30

Valve Guides

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June 22 2005, 6:53 PM 

Not initially Randy. The valve job is done on the CNC and we generate the final Guide I.D. on the same fixture that bores the holes for the guide and seat inserts. I'm not exactly sure why the problem is as significant as it appears to be but, rest assured, we will begin to put a study on it. I guess that's the effect of supplying products through a large company such as Ford. I'm the last one to find out about their customer's issues. Feel free to outline any other areas we might be able improve product quality. From now on, the buck stops here!

 
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Brian
(Login BrianEyler)
205.130.16.68

Mr. Root - Question about SCJ intake rocker stud location

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June 22 2005, 7:46 PM 

I noticed on my set of heads the intake push rods really favored the bottom of the tube and actually interfered pretty bad when I tried a 1.8 rocker. The geometry also wasn't exactly right - almost as if the rocker arm stud hole was drilled to close to the valve. Any thoughts on this?

 
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JonKaase
(Login JonKaase)
205.188.116.134

It seems that the Crane...

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June 22 2005, 9:49 PM 

gold race rockers as well as the Ford motorsport rockers differ from the Comp steel ones. The heads were initally set up with the Crane 1.73 429 based rocker. That's what I used on the Engine Masters and everything fit right. I'll look at the Comp fit tomorrow. If we need to move the stud holes back some, so be it.

 
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(Login c.evans)
205.188.116.134

Jon, The Most Accurate 1.73 Roller Rockers

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June 22 2005, 10:16 PM 

that Lem and I have found are the Ford FRPP (blue), Crane (gold), Crower (stainless steel), and Probe (billet). If the heads will fit any of those four 1.73 roller rockers, then things will be "good to go".

The Comp Cams stainless steel has an offset trunion, and it's valve stem to rocker stud dimension is different. I believe Lem verified that with Gordan a couple of years ago.

Hope this helps,
Charlie

 
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Brian
(Login BrianEyler)
146.186.4.203

Re: Jon, The Most Accurate 1.73 Roller Rockers

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June 22 2005, 10:37 PM 

The 1.8 ratio rockers I had problems with were FRPP blues (new old stock from the 90s). I ended up going with Yella Terra 1.73 individual shaft rockers. With these, I had to mill some material off the intake rocker stud bosses to drop the rocker down enough to get the right geometry - which basically pulled the rocker back from the valve and helped the push rod clearance at the same time. It's strange, because I know Dave M. and Scott J. used these same rockers on their EM engine with no problems whatsoever.

 
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(Login l-evans7)
69.166.129.47

Strange indeed..

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June 22 2005, 11:17 PM 

same here...had to do the milling too...to get the pattern in the center of the stem . Wide travel accross the stem...in the middle...out side..or inside ...never would get 'pretty' .
Went with Crower SS rockers [stud mounted] ..pattern got nice and picked up a lot of lift .
Later ran the Crower SS , Blue FRPP and Probe rockerarms through the engine + a fist full of p rod lenghts .
Verdict...Crower #1...YT last on ratio .
Been sitting on this for a while...too much negitive stuff hear IMO....but it's time for this bit .

 
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(Login PullinBret)
208.31.189.198

Hmmm! Sounds like some quality control problems...

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June 22 2005, 11:36 PM 

Is this something Ford had to hear about a lot? Sounds like there might be two sides to this deal!

"PFC Engines" 573-793-2177 (dyno not quite operational!)

"Pullin For Christ"







 
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(Login l-evans7)
69.166.129.47

Observation of ...

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June 22 2005, 11:45 PM 

YT rocker arms was on an "A" head . Brian's results on the SCJ seem to be very much the same .

 
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Brian
(Login BrianEyler)
146.186.4.203

RE: Quality Control

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June 23 2005, 7:42 AM 

I'm not a professional builder like alot of you guys, so I can't say whether the "problem" lies with the rockers or heads. I've never even mentioned it anywhere but here (no complaints to Ford). It's almost sad to say, but I've pretty much learned over the years that nothing is a "bolt on" and everything needs modified in one way or the other to make it work...it's the nature of the hobby. But the fact the push rods are so darn close to the push rod tubes in my set of heads paired with the incorrect geometry of the fixed shaft rockers lead me to believe it was probably the heads. A regular Crane or FRPP stud rocker has the ability to be adjusted up and down the stud with push rod length so the problem isn't as obvious as with a shaft mounted rocker. But I don't know much about YT either - so it very well could be the rockers. Either way, a little machining and the heads work great - around 800hp on a 512 and probably 30 - 50hp more than the A429s I did have on the motor.

 
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Brian
(Login BrianEyler)
216.3.144.194

I should add....

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June 23 2005, 9:56 AM 

my exhaust geometry and pattern was perfect with the YTs. My intake pattern was exactly as you described, Lem. Dropping the intake stand centered the pattern but it's still a little wide for my tastes. I would have preferred to use the 1.8 FRPPs but there was no way even after clearancing the tubes that they were going to work unless maybe I dropped down to a 5/16" push rod--even then it would have been close.

 
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(Login l-evans7)
69.166.129.47

Re: I should add....

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June 23 2005, 10:27 AM 

Yes , the intake is what I recall .

 
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(Login methylated)
65.130.67.194

those yella terras share the same part number with the cleveland

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June 23 2005, 11:40 AM 

they might have been designed for the cleveland 1st . Ordinarily it goes in reverse most companies engineer for the 460 first and also sell the same rocker for the clevo , but since YT is an australian concern maybe they did the cleveland first ?

 
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Brian
(Login BrianEyler)
216.3.144.194

Re: those yella terras share the same part number with the cleveland

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June 23 2005, 12:36 PM 

Joe, I didn't realize the two were different. I always assumed everything rocker arm related must be the same between cleveland and 385 heads since they shared rocker arms. Your theory may be true.

 
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S. Leonard
(Login 1961GALAXIE)
64.238.254.122

Hey Brian (Team 385 heads)

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June 23 2005, 3:38 PM 

On the team 385 heads & yella terra rockers deal i donated that 466" motor dave set up did use 5/16" pushrods.
On a 521" d1ve block (10.315" deck) the heads did need some massaging with a 3/8" pushrod and a 735" lift cam on intake holes but no biggy.
Yella terra even sells spacers incase the opposite problem occurs where you need to raise pedastals!

Like you said what is a bolt together motor nowadays?
Do they exist Everything i've put together lately needs something modified - The big concern is catching all the little adjustments needed before firing the damn thing & sending metal everywhere.

 
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Brian
(Login BrianEyler)
146.186.4.201

Good information...thanks.

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June 23 2005, 9:50 PM 

I saw that yella terra sold shorter stands - but the next shortest stand would have required me to shim it back up. I didn't like that idea...it was easier to mill a little off the heads.

 
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(Login DaveMcLain)
64.251.140.85

Machining details SCJ

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June 24 2005, 9:29 AM 

I've used the Yella Terras on the Blue Thunder heads, SCJ, EX-514, DOVE-A etc without problems but I've often wondered how accurately that stud mounting pad is really machined height wise from head to head. It seems like it could vary a lot but I've not had a problem either. That's one thing that I like about those rockers, you can set them up on the head and see where you are geometry wise with it sitting on the bench. Getting the correct pushrod length happens during mock up and since you're adjusting the pushrod seat height when setting the lash/adjusting nut position for your particular pushrod length it can change the geometry/theoretical vs actual lift quite a bit with a few turns from what I've seen.

One area that WAS a problem on the SCJ heads was the spark plug seat, it was not deep enough and I had to play around getting a long enough reach on the spark plug to get out into the chamber, that's something for AR to double check too before they go into production.

The SCJ's we used that belong to Steve L were also very early production I would say, it's certainly possible that some of that stuff changed with later heads.


 
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(Login ARoot)
69.231.154.109

Rocker Height

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June 24 2005, 2:38 PM 

Dave,

I can tell you that the rocker pedistal height on the parts we manufacture is very accurate from head to head. +/- .001". The first 1000 heads we produced for Ford were machined on a CNC that we later replaced. After retooling the job for the new CNC we obviously inspected them, and I had Kaase bless the first part as well. We can certainly adjust the position if that's necessary. Hopefully it won't obsolete the 1000 guide plates I just purchased for the P-51's. Also, if the pushrod hole needs attention we can fix that at the same time. Anyway, let me know asap if a change is in order. As far as the spark plug depth goes we will have that figured out prior to running the first batch. It will certainly repeat better than the Ford part because the chambers are machined. Cast features can vary at times +/- .030" or so.

 
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(Login rmcomprandy)
4.229.81.47

Being that there's venting about the original SCJ's here...

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June 24 2005, 7:40 PM 

Well Alan, I was going to e-mail Jon about this but, since you seem to want to take care of all the obvious past mistakes of the original SCJ besides the guide hole in the head not matching the guide hole in the guide, (Why do later SCJ heads have machining on the seal area down to .500" so the seal area would be concentric with the guide hole)? I have seen about a hundred pair, minimum. Also, the intake stud is definately in the wrong place, (about .020" closer to the guide than the exhaust stud), and even the angle of the intake stud is wrong. It seems to match the angle of the "installed pushrod" instaed of splitting the difference between the angle of the valve vs. the angle of the pushrod. And, the cant angle is off a little, too. Works OK the way it is UNTIL you install longer valves to increase valve spring height, Now those bad angles get magnafied immensly; I've already changed 2 sets of heads's intake stud angle and location because of this "mistake". That didn't concern me as much as the non-concentric guide though; that's something I CAN'T fix after it's already machined that way...!

 
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Brian
(Login BrianEyler)
146.186.4.200

I forgot about mentioning

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June 24 2005, 8:56 PM 

the wrong angle of the intake stud - mine were that way too. When you put the rocker on, one end of the roller was resting on the valve and the other end had about .004" clearance under it. We "fixed" that when we lowered the stud boss. Something else worth mentioning - the bosses for the outer head studs were too thick - the ARP studs weren't long enough to get the nut onto all the threads - milled a little there as well. Hope you don't get offended by these comments - just pointing out some potential areas to fix while you're at it.

 
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(Login c.evans)
152.163.100.130

Randy M. , How Do You Fix The Cant Angle Problem ??

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June 25 2005, 1:05 AM 

Brian told us that he remachined the stud boss when he lowered it. Like you just mentioned, I went with a +.100" lomg intake valve on a set of SCJ heads and I would like to know what method you suggest to correct the difference in cant angle between the valve and the rocker stud.

Thanks,
Charlie

 
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Randy Malik
(Login rmcomprandy)
4.229.105.146

Charley, you have mail...!

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June 25 2005, 2:59 PM 

Quite long for here...

 
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(Login JonKaase)
64.12.116.130

please check the new post I started

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June 28 2005, 11:35 PM 

I should have added it to this one

 
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