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EMC Results; Please Read - Let's Help

October 10 2005 at 5:33 PM
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  (Login c.evans)
from IP address 152.163.100.130

 
Hey Guys,

Just to update everybody on two of the BB Ford engines that were in the contest.

1. In that other thread Randy 598 posted a picture of Gary Blair's engine, and Randy please post/link it in this thread if you would. On the left, squatting down adjusting the timing is Gary Blair and on the right is Randy Malik who was helping Gary.

P.S. Dave McLain, those are intake spacers, not adaptors, and the bolts use the original Ford production pattern and go all the way through into the heads.

Gary's engine was well thought out, but he ran into a lot of logistics problems with parts being ready on time and etc. The bottom line is he didn't get a chance to run it or dyno it before the contest time. It had lot's of potential but he didn't get to show it. The problem that "got him" was that the distributor gear was installed without enough clearance between the gear and the block. Anyway things galled and the distributor locked up and sheared the roll pin holding the gear on. He didn't get to make any full dyno pulls there either.

I have talked to Gary twice on the phone since then and have suggested he bring the engine down here(KY) and we'd dyno it and be more than willing to help him out any way we could. Basically he hasn't hurt any major parts, so that's good.

2. The other man in the picture is our own Randy Malik who frequently answers lot's of tech questions on this 385 Forum. He had his engine built in plenty of time, and at my invitation he came down in July with his engine and we dynoed it. We had a good three days spent on the dyno working out all the details and he was READY! I was expecting Randy to place very high in the contest based on his numbers here.

At the EMC contest in New York (on Wednesday or Thursday, whichever day it was that he dynoed), they put his engine on and proceeded to dyno it. I have already told Dave McLain and a couple of the other guys what happened, but anyway the dyno operator did not get it filled up with water due to cooling tower/cooling hose issues. Randy had a huge air lock. The operator proceeded to make some pulls and with each successive pull he melted it down, all the while losing power of course. The bottom line is that Randy's engine is hurt and hurt bad. It got all the pistons and the rings of course. Maybe more, we don't know yet. He is just sick!

The people at Billy Mitchell's felt no obligation to fix the problem and pay for the damage. Neither did the Popular Hot Rodding magazine people. They said Randy had a defective water pump. Well, he didn't down here! We put 48 dyno pulls on that beast and never melted it down, nor did we have any cooling tower problem/issues. They all are just saying "tough luck" and have not made any offer to help, even though the operator/helpers didn't get it filled with water and had an air lock. The real problem is the cooling tower is mounted too far away and real low. Then the top hose goes up high and comes back down. David Wink told me the Cadilac of Potters was in the same cell and they had an air lock problem also. Anyway some people where fighting mad and some feelings got hurt.

In the past, many of us have chipped in and donated parts, time and money to help get the two previous 385 Forum entries to the EMC contest. Dave McLain and Scott Johnston can assure you that Lem and I have. I know many of the others of you have also. This is my idea, I have NOT talked to Randy Malik about it, he hasn't asked me to do this, BUT as of now I am starting a little collection fund for a new set of pistons, rings & pins for Randy Malik's EMC engine. He's one of our members and I feel that Popular Hot Rodding/EMC and Billy Mitchell Hardcore Racing have given him a royal you know what.

I am not asking anybody to do anything I wouldn't do. I will donate some money to this fund also. If you wish to chip in, please send your donations to me at;

Evans Racing Engines
1231 Upper Trace
Owensboro, KY 42303

Make your checks payable to Randy Malik and I'll keep running total and holler "Stop" when we get enough to pay for a set of pistons, pins and rings. Then I'll send it all to Randy.

My Sincere Thanks,
Charlie Evans


 
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AuthorReply
Steve S.
(Login 67xr7cat)
68.46.131.12

Re: EMC Results; Please Read - Let's Help

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October 10 2005, 6:23 PM 

What happened to both Gary and Randy is a shame. This is not the first time participants got the shaft. I understand last year there was an entry which based on prior dyno numbers would have walked away with the prize, but they forgot to turn the water on and damaged the engine - they did nothing for him either. In all fairness they should have given him a chance to freshen the engine, but there is nothing fair to do with this contest.

I really like the idea of a engine builder contest, but the way they run that thing, luck has just as much or more to do with winning as hard work and building a better entry.

Charlie, can't offer much to help Randy, but the check will be in the mail tomorrow. I'd be interested to see corrected dyno numbers for both Gary and Randy's engines to see who would have really won if the contest was run by people interested in the hobby instead of selling magazines...

Best Regards,

Steve

 
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(Login 349MagnumRT)
68.15.253.169

EMC... LOL :rolleyes:

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October 10 2005, 6:41 PM 

The concept is a good one, but the execution thereof is sometimes awful.

In 2003, (470" BB) the Moparts.com team got the shaft by a dyno problem that was no fault of their own as well.

You'd think there would be a procedure in place to rectify problems/meltdowns caused by the people conducting the event.

-------------------------------
'86 Ranger 5.0L/T5 soon to be 7.5L/C6

 
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(Login rmcomprandy)
4.229.90.19

Re: EMC Results; Please Read - Let's Help

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October 10 2005, 9:28 PM 

The saving grace of this whole thing is that my warm-up runs only scored high enough to finish 5th or 6th so, everything else was kinda immaterial.

 
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(Login 67xr7cat)
68.46.131.12

check finally in mail

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October 18 2005, 8:12 PM 

Hi Charlie,

The check is finally is in the mail! Had to wrestle the check book from the wife LOL... Sorry for the delay

Best Regards,
Steve S.

 
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(Login TS1990)
216.59.242.181

Pic of Gary Blair / Randy Malik

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October 10 2005, 7:01 PM 



    
This message has been edited by TS1990 from IP address 216.59.240.105 on Oct 18, 2005 9:24 PM


 
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Steven L
(Login Steven_L)
207.200.116.71

EMC B.S.

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October 10 2005, 8:17 PM 

As dominate as the fords have been you think there would be more than just 2 ford entries. Then again, did they even run the tear down article of Jon Kaase's winning cleveland from last year? They don't care about the Ford guys cause thats not who buys their magazines. I quit reading that crap a long time ago.

As far as a procedure for problems on the dyno go, if they did have a "procedure" they would never use it. That would just be and admission of guilt. Then they would have to pay for the parts they destroyed.

This whole thing is over hyped and underdelivered. The rules are constantly changed to favor chevys and constantly changed to oppose the fords. Remember the whole cleveland heads with windsor block fiasco and the constant revisions that allow more race orientated heads for chevys?

Though, i do like looking at the numbers all the motors make.
What were all the results from the pulls?


Steven

 
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(Login S.Vincent)
72.4.12.145

There were more than just 2 ford entries

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October 10 2005, 9:32 PM 



    
This message has been edited by S.Vincent from IP address 72.4.12.145 on Oct 10, 2005 9:34 PM


 
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(Login Phantasea427)
198.93.117.2

Interesting

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October 11 2005, 12:14 PM 

Scott,

Interesting read. You will have to keep us posted when Barry updates his story!

Thanks



Damon Sea


1983 Mustang Hatch
466 / C4

"If it doesn't fit, Force it. If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway"

http://www.geocities.com/wildfire1mustang/damon.htm

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=750&cat=500&thumb=1

 
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Randy Malik
(Login rmcomprandy)
4.229.90.19

Re: EMC Results; Please Read - Let's Help

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October 10 2005, 9:23 PM 

Charlie,
You shouldn't do that stuff; it cost me enough but, that's what you get whenever you build any of this stuff. There is no expectation of everything going right.

 
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(Login autowreck)
68.40.193.198

Hey Randy and Gary,

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October 10 2005, 10:20 PM 

Hey guys,
I just read about that crappy stuff and wish yall the best.... I'm sorry, and unfortunately can't contribute cuz I'm in college, but wanted to say that I'm sorry for what happened and hope yall get everything sorted out. You guys rock! Dave

 
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(Login ScottJ429)
131.191.33.129

Count me in Charlie...

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October 10 2005, 10:28 PM 


When we were there in 04 the fuel can went empty and we went lean as hell. Thankfully the engine was not hurt but we were sweating like whores in church though.

I agree that the dyno operators were and can be careless.






Regards,
Scott Johnston / RHP

Complete list of product and services:
http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com






http://www.prepaidlegal.com/info/scottjohnston



 
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(Login c.evans)
64.12.116.130

Randy, I Know We Don't Have To, But We WANT To !!

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October 11 2005, 2:05 AM 

Guys,

I've already gotten a few positive e-mails and I've already received some money towards this fund. I appreciate it, and I'm sure Randy will also. Let's just keep the ball rolling.

Thanks,
Charlie

 
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(Login dcf150)
69.183.25.120

Charlie, may I ask how this money/engine will be used?

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October 11 2005, 5:22 AM 

Sounds like a good cause to me, just curious (before I donate) if the money will be used to repair the engine or recover from the financial loss? (If the engine is to be repaired, what will it be used for?) Thanks.

It's nice to see the BBF community united, instead of being screwed (like how FRPP did to Jon Kaase).

May God's Grace Bless You.

1978 BRONCO: 508" stroker, TFS Street heads, A/C, Lentech Strip Terminator AOD-FRPP wide ratio gearset, Atlas II Highlander transfer case, performance built Dana 44/60-lockers & 4.10 gears, 4 wheel disc brakes, heim joint cross-over steering, 4" suspension lift, 35" mud tires.

 
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(Login c.evans)
64.12.116.130

Danny Cabral; Please

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October 11 2005, 9:32 PM 

reread my initial post. Towards the bottom I said a couple of times; "for a set of pistons, rings and pins." How can I make it any more clear?

Other than that I can't answer how the engine is going to be used. I do know a couple of years ago when Randy entered the EMC contest for the 470 CID big blocks he built a Ford, and after the contest tried to sell it. He didn't have any takers, so this years engine was essentially the 2003 engine but he upped the CID to the 509 limit. Same block and heads.

Hope this helps,
Charlie

 
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(Login Phantasea427)
198.93.117.2

Charlie

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October 11 2005, 12:19 PM 

I can donate a few bucks (I just sold some more stuff LOL). I can mail it to ya' or just wait until you give me a total, then just add the extra few $$$$.

I'll send you a e-mail later

Randy, sorry to hear about the catastrophe. That really SUCKS and I'd have been STEAMING mad. I believe heads would have rolled (probably mine LOL)!



Damon Sea


1983 Mustang Hatch
466 / C4

"If it doesn't fit, Force it. If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway"

http://www.geocities.com/wildfire1mustang/damon.htm

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=750&cat=500&thumb=1

 
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(Login chilly460)
199.244.214.30

Re: Randy, I Know We Don't Have To, But We WANT To !!

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October 12 2005, 1:31 PM 

Charlie, do you happen to have PayPal? I am in the process of moving and have no idea where my envelopes or stamps are hiding...


 
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(Login danthefordman)
24.59.209.79

Re: EMC Results; Please Read - Let's Help

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October 11 2005, 8:35 PM 

A little somthing in the mail.

 
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(Login ClevelandDave)
68.45.151.152

Would a set of felpro 1018's help ?

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October 11 2005, 8:43 PM 

I have a set of Felpro 1018 Headgaskets I cannot use. Let me know if they will work on his engine. If they will work they are his.

 
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(Login c.evans)
64.12.116.130

Cleveland Dave, I Think So, , , , ,

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October 11 2005, 9:36 PM 

He was running FRPP SCJ heads on this engine and, the 1018's are the small bore, so they would have worked. Do what you want to do, I'm sure it will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Charlie

 
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(Login ClevelandDave)
68.45.151.152

OK ill send them if they will work.

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October 12 2005, 7:04 AM 

Ok.

 
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DaveMcLain
(Login DaveMcLain)
64.251.140.220

Engine Masters' Setup, all they did to us was run out of gas!

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October 12 2005, 9:27 AM 

Last year at the Engine Masters' I was impressed by Bill Mitchell's setup for the most part EXCEPT for the engine cooling hose routing, who's idea was it to run them across the floor like that? Turning down at the exit of the engine was a bad idea. We messed around for a while after getting everything hooked up before we got the coolant to flow properly, once it was flowing everything was fine but I still didn't like it that way. What if there was a little combustion leak that would not have hurt anything but was just enough to air lock that system something like that could have happened pretty easily.

I was going to run an engine driven pump if needed but I was told that once we started the engine I could not switch from the electric motor if I didn't like it, that was my plan. After the first pull if detonation was a problem I would put the belt on there and go with the engine driven pump, not allowed, sorry. Then again I was told that by the same guy who scoffed when I asked if I could run a .250 thick head gasket too!

I would like to help out if possible Randy because it does seem lame to me that your stuff got damaged. We were rather fortuate to have run out of gas on one of our warm up pulls, I can't remember if you were there at the time or not but it was rather embarassing for those guys. Our pull was going fine and then all of a sudden we went way down on power. Back at idle we noticed the fuel pressure guage bouncing, good thing, next time around could possibly have damaged something.

 
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(Login PaulKane)
Forum Owner
69.181.83.142

Contribution Coming From Me

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October 12 2005, 1:46 PM 

I hope to have an entry in this contest in the coming years (when the guidelines suit the combo I have in mind), and I pretty much expect to jump through many hurdles to get there. And I realistically don't expect to do much more than just make a showing. (My intention is to do a build whose purpose will not be to end up on top but rather make a statement [to the magazine readers] about the potential of the 385 Series).

To think that a mastermind such as Randy went through all the effort and then basically got stepped on is total BS. I might expect them to treat a first time newcomer that way, but not him. For this reason, I'll make a small contribution for his sake and also in support of the FORD engine.

Paul



Introducing:



High Flow Dynamics


Performance Components for the 429/460 Engine Family



    
This message has been edited by PaulKane from IP address 69.181.83.142 on Oct 12, 2005 1:47 PM


 
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Nick
(Login Nickbay)
64.136.27.227

Charlie, do you have paypal? N/M

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October 12 2005, 7:45 PM 



69 mustang, 1977 460, 1970 heads-home ported, 213/224 dur-.512/.535 cam, Edelbrock performer intake, 800 Edelbrock carb, stock exhaust manifolds, factory dual exhaust, TCI 11” converter, 3.50 gears

 
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(Login c.evans)
64.12.116.130

Nick, No Sir I Don't. Just A Plain 'ol Country Boy! n/m

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October 12 2005, 8:53 PM 

n/m

 
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Nick
(Login Nickbay)
64.136.27.227

A check has been sent

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October 13 2005, 8:14 PM 

It sucks what happened to Randy's engine. I'll mail it tomorrow morning.

69 mustang, 1977 460, 1970 heads-home ported, 213/224 dur-.512/.535 cam, Edelbrock performer intake, 800 Edelbrock carb, stock exhaust manifolds, factory dual exhaust, TCI 11” converter, 3.50 gears

 
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(Login ScottJ429)
131.191.33.129

Charlie, a check is in the mail today... n/m

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October 14 2005, 1:14 PM 

n/m




Regards,
Scott Johnston / RHP

Complete list of product and services:
http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com






http://www.prepaidlegal.com/info/scottjohnston



 
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(Login c.evans)
152.163.100.130

Damon Sea & Randy Johnston; Your Checks Arrived

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October 14 2005, 9:27 PM 

and I want to say thank you. Also to all the other guys who are in the process of sending a check, thanks.

Charlie

 
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(Login Phantasea427)
198.93.117.2

Re: Damon Sea & Randy Johnston; Your Checks Arrived

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October 15 2005, 8:30 AM 

(Carribean accent) No Problem Mon

It's not much but with evereyone elses contributions it will help to rebuild Randy's engine. It's a shame that they screwed him over and didn't even offer ANY type of compensation.


(I'm at work today instead of at the race track with my friends, Bummer!)

Thanks Charlie!




Damon Sea


1983 Mustang Hatch
466 / C4

"If it doesn't fit, Force it. If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway"

http://www.geocities.com/wildfire1mustang/damon.htm

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=750&cat=500&thumb=1

 
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(Login rmcomprandy)
4.229.81.1

Dyno cooling tower, (therefore water level), too low...

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October 15 2005, 10:54 AM 

Actually, the SAME thing happened to Richard Potter and his Cadilac engine on that same dyno just a little while before me.

 
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(Login ClevelandDave)
68.45.151.152

Sorry been busy, Head gaskets on the way monday

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October 15 2005, 11:03 AM 

I hope it helps

 
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(Login cletus66)
64.12.116.130

I gave at the office...........

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October 15 2005, 11:16 AM 

No, what I meant to say was "The check is in the mail." Really. Do you know what the 3rd great lie is? But seriously, the flag is up on my mailbox.

 
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(Login chilly460)
63.164.145.198

Re: I gave at the office...........

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October 15 2005, 1:02 PM 

Quote: "the flag is up on my mailbox"

I hope that doesn't mean what I think it means...

 
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(Login c.evans)
152.163.100.130

Today's Mail Brought Checks From Dan Tyner and Chuck Stevens aka

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October 15 2005, 3:54 PM 

DBLA Digger on the 385 Forum. A big thanks guys! Keep it up!

Charlie

 
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(Login cletus66)
64.12.116.130

You lost me Chilly........

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October 16 2005, 12:55 AM 

I meant it literally. As in sending mail. Now, what were YOU thinking?? LOL

 
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(Login c.evans)
152.163.100.130

Jeff Hahn, James Greer, Nick Bay, & Scott Johnston; A BIG Thanks,

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October 17 2005, 3:50 PM 

I got checks today from ya'll. It's appreciated and I just wanted to let you know so.

Jeff, your idea of sending "Beer Money" is a good one. You must drink a lota beer! I loved your joke also. Furthermore, your check is here and the one coming from Chilly isn't, so you can harass him some about the "Three Biggest Lies".

Later,
Charlie

 
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(Login c.evans)
152.163.100.130

Thanks to Cleveland Dave and Tom Peplin. I got yours

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October 19 2005, 7:12 PM 

in todays mail. Appreciate it guys.

Charlie

 
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(Login buck252)
66.94.212.79

A Little Late

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October 20 2005, 9:06 AM 

A little late, not much, but it's coming.
I mailed it today.Every little bit helps I guess.
Buck252

 
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ShaZam
(Login TRUKPULR)
67.48.231.194

Re: A Little Late

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October 20 2005, 8:32 PM 

Should be getting one from me on Friday or Monday..



ShaZam

 
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(Login c.evans)
205.188.116.134

Today's Mail ; Checks From Paul Kane, Gary and Dan Tyner

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October 21 2005, 1:15 AM 

Thanks guys. It's going to a good cause.

Charlie

 
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(Login c.evans)
152.163.100.130

ShaZam ! Checks Today From Dan Homa and Danny Cabral !

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October 21 2005, 9:24 PM 

Thanks guys.

Charlie

 
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(Login c.evans)
152.163.101.9

And The Mailman Brought Checks From Doug Rahn and Steve Salesky Today

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October 22 2005, 7:22 PM 

Thanks guys!!!! We're getting there and we're doing good guys. Need another $100 or so and we'll be done.

Again I thank all of you for helping!

Charlie

 
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(Login ClevelandDave)
68.45.151.152

Charlie How close are you

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October 22 2005, 9:06 PM 

To getting enough for the repair?

 
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(Login c.evans)
64.12.117.9

Dave; We've Got

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October 23 2005, 1:59 AM 

$640 and I was hoping to get $800.

Charlie

 
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(Login Phantasea427)
198.93.117.2

Re: Dave; We've Got

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October 25 2005, 12:21 PM 

Getting close!

Bump for ya' too



Damon Sea


1983 Mustang Hatch
466 / C4

"If it doesn't fit, Force it. If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway"

http://www.geocities.com/wildfire1mustang/damon.htm

http://www.clubhotrod.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=750&cat=500&thumb=1

 
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(Login buck252)
66.94.212.79

Hey Charlie

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October 26 2005, 11:03 AM 

ILLinois to Kentucky isn't that far. I sent a check on Oct.20
Starting to wonder if you got it?
Thanks.
Bill aka Buck252.

 
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(Login buck252)
66.94.212.79

Hey Charlie

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October 26 2005, 11:05 AM 

ILLinois to Kentucky isn't that far. I sent a check on Oct.20
Starting to wonder if you got it?
Thanks.
Bill aka Buck252.

 
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(Login c.evans)
205.188.117.68

Buck 252 (Bill) and Tom McGarrigle; Thanks! ! !

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October 26 2005, 3:58 PM 

Buck, I just got your check today (Wed) and Thomas, I got yours yesterday. A real big thanks to both of you gentlemen!

Charlie

 
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(Login c.evans)
152.163.101.9

Okay Guys; We're Done !!!

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November 4 2005, 7:59 PM 

I got a check from Chilly today and that was the last one I knew of, that was coming in. That gives us a total of somewhere between $750 and $800, depending on the value of these head gaskets. I'd say we accomplished my goal and I'll Fed-Ex these checks to Randy here in the next few days.

Some of you gave "beer money" and some of you gave much more, the bottom line is, it came from the heart. It all added up and it will certainly be a big help. I tried to mention the names of the contributors as the checks came in. I think I got everybody, but if I left someone out I'm sorry.

I think I mentioned this earlier, but Randy had dynoed the engine down here prior to the contest and it did just fine on our DTS. 55 dyno pulls and no problems, no air locks or cooling tower snafus. I thought he had a winner on his hands, big numbers! I stayed in touch with the guys while they were in New York and when I heard what the Billy Mitchell dyno operator did to Randy's engine, I was just sick!

On behalf of Randy and also myself, I sincerely thank each and every on of you that helped out.

Thanks,
Charlie


 
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