Bush wants to push democracy to the World but, does not want a democracy in America, we have a republic in america and a republic is not a true democracy. We have a capitalist political system in America that insures that only people with money get represented by polititions, these 2 facts alone are evidence that America does not have anything like a democracy in the true sence of the word but, Bush wants to push democracies around the world. I would ask Bush why he doesn't want a democracy in America but, I already know the answer to that, so his rich capitalist friends can continue to exploit american workers and make all the laws in America. I want a democracy in America that's why I'm a socialist, we are the only political party in the world that wants a true democracy, Bush is a hypocrite to ask other nations to install democracies when America doesn't even have one.

"Democracy" in and of itself is not much more than tyranny of the majority. Communism is the perfect form of Democracy. The Founding Fathers established a representative Republic as the form of government for America. I'll keep my birth right thank you! If you want to live in a Democracy-- move to Cuba!

* = Initial comment
= Grandpa h.



The Founding Fathers established a representative Republic as the form*
of government for America.*

Our government's authority currently depends on the continuing
willingness of the people to trade away their political and economic power to multinational corporate interests.

If you want to live in a Democracy-- move to Cuba!*

Cuba is a dictatorship, which is not Democratic.

Grandpa h.

"Our government's authority currently depends on the continuing
willingness of the people to trade away their political and economic power to multinational corporate interests."

Thankfully, the majority of Americans don't want to trade away their freedom to make a small group of communist party elitist wealthy either!


"Cuba is a dictatorship, which is not Democratic."

A COMMUNIST dictatorship. Communism is the perfect form of democracy.

BTK if you agree that America is not a democracy then why is Bush telling the whole world to become one?

* "Democracy" in and of itself is not much more than tyranny of the majority...The Founding Fathers established a representative Republic as the form of government for America.

BTK, you're right on both points, but as it stands today, our de jure Constitutional Republic has deteriorated into a de facto legislative Democracy. So, it surprises me that you seem to defend the current system so much and yet you state here that a Democracy = bad, Republic = good.

"BTK if you agree that America is not a democracy then why is Bush telling the whole world to become one?"

Because alot of them have dictatorships and theocracies, so a democracy is one step closer to a Republic!

"BTK, you're right on both points, but as it stands today, our de jure Constitutional Republic has deteriorated into a de facto legislative Democracy. So, it surprises me that you seem to defend the current system so much and yet you state here that a Democracy = bad, Republic = good."

The current system is better than communism!

BTK if you agree that America is not a democracy then why is Bush telling the whole world to become one?

Your both full of s h i t ,america teachs its children in school that we have a democracy, which is a lie, they teach that because they don't want to tell children the truth about americas goverment, yes, it is a republic and a republic is undemocratic, there is no difference between americas republic and facsist goverment theory , they both operate under the same principals, the rich rule, that's why you don't tell american school children the truth about their goverment.Socialists are the only ones in the world who support a true democracy and more and more people are learning the truth about americas facsist type of goverment. It won't be to long before everyone starts questioning Bush's bul- s h i t statement about wanting to support democracies in the world.Why do you think most people do not vote in america, because they know that their vote does not count.

In don't doubt that one bit. The socialist/communists run the education system pre-school through college they have it all sewn up!

I was taught the truth-- that America is a representative Republic, and not a democracy! Educate yourself on this subject.

BTK if you agree that America is not a democracy then why is Bush telling the whole world to become one?

Your both full of s h i t ,america teachs its children in school that we have a democracy, which is a lie, they teach that because they don't want to tell children the truth about americas goverment, yes, it is a republic and a republic is undemocratic, there is no difference between americas republic and facsist goverment theory , they both operate under the same principals, the rich rule, that's why you don't tell american school children the truth about their goverment.Socialists are the only ones in the world who support a true democracy and more and more people are learning the truth about americas facsist type of goverment. It won't be to long before everyone starts questioning Bush's bul- s h i t statement about wanting to support democracies in the world.Why do you think most people do not vote in america, because they know that their vote does not count.


In don't doubt that one bit. The socialist/communists run the education system pre-school through college they have it all sewn up!

I was taught the truth-- that America is a representative Republic, and not a democracy! Educate yourself on this subject.

BTK, your statement makes no sence, if american teachers were socialists they would teach the children that americas goverment is un-democratic and run by the rich, they don't, infact, I have relitives that are american teachers and they are conservative democrates(republocrates) and they think this goverment is great and a democracy.I don't have to educate myself on americas capitalist republic ,as I said , it is no diferent than facsist goverments, the rich rule.Your the one that does not want to admit how un-democratic and how corrupt america is, I've known that for over 25 years. You should tell americans the truth about their facsist republic and stop telling the world to support a goverment that you don't even believe in, you know what they call people who act like that capitalist hypocrites.

They do.

* = Initial comment
= Grandpa h.



Thankfully, the majority of Americans don't want to trade away*
their freedom to make a small group of communist party*
elitist wealthy either!*

But they are still having their freedoms traded to make a small group of wealthy people wealthier.
I personally think we need to challenge multinational corporate politics.

I said:
"Cuba is a dictatorship, which is not Democratic."

A COMMUNIST dictatorship.*
Communism is the perfect form of democracy.*

But dictatorships are not democratic.

Grandpa h.

"But they are still having their freedoms traded to make a small group of wealthy people wealthier.
I personally think we need to challenge multinational corporate politics."

Great idea! Let's go after the corporations, then we can all walk around naked and live in grass huts like they do in the 3rd world nations! Do you have any more bright ideas whiz kid

"But dictatorships are not democratic. "

Thank you for taking the bait! So, it doesn't look so good afterall when you think of it like that, eh?

BTK if you agree that America is not a democracy then why is Bush telling the whole world to become one?

Your both full of s h i t ,america teachs its children in school that we have a democracy, which is a lie, they teach that because they don't want to tell children the truth about americas goverment, yes, it is a republic and a republic is undemocratic, there is no difference between americas republic and facsist goverment theory , they both operate under the same principals, the rich rule, that's why you don't tell american school children the truth about their goverment.Socialists are the only ones in the world who support a true democracy and more and more people are learning the truth about americas facsist type of goverment. It won't be to long before everyone starts questioning Bush's bul- s h i t statement about wanting to support democracies in the world.Why do you think most people do not vote in america, because they know that their vote does not count.


In don't doubt that one bit. The socialist/communists run the education system pre-school through college they have it all sewn up!

I was taught the truth-- that America is a representative Republic, and not a democracy! Educate yourself on this subject.

BTK, your statement makes no sence, if american teachers were socialists they would teach the children that americas goverment is un-democratic and run by the rich, they don't, infact, I have relitives that are american teachers and they are conservative democrates(republocrates) and they think this goverment is great and a democracy.I don't have to educate myself on americas capitalist republic ,as I said , it is no diferent than facsist goverments, the rich rule.Your the one that does not want to admit how un-democratic and how corrupt america is, I've known that for over 25 years. You should tell americans the truth about their facsist republic and stop telling the world to support a goverment that you don't even believe in, you know what they call people who act like that capitalist hypocrites.

BTK,you have admitted that we don't live in a democracy and that we in fact live in a capitalist republic, my question to you is, why doesn't Bush tell other countries to act like America and install a capitalist republic, why does he promote a democracy insread of a republic like America has ?

"BTK if you agree that America is not a democracy then why is Bush telling the whole world to become one?"

As I stated before, a democracy is one step closer to a Republic!

"BTK, your statement makes no sence, if american teachers were socialists they would teach the children that americas goverment is un-democratic and run by the rich, they don't,"

Yes they do! I encounter teachers spouting that crap back in the 70's.

"infact, I have relitives that are american teachers and they are conservative democrates(republocrates) and they think this goverment is great and a democracy."

Well, I'm glad to hear that they think the government is great, but they are mistaken on one point. America is a Representative Republic-- not a democracy.

"I don't have to educate myself on americas capitalist republic ,as I said , it is no diferent than facsist goverments, the rich rule."

America is RADICALLY different from any facist government that EVER existed. The rich always rule. The golden rule of ANY government is that "He who has the gold makes the rules."

"Your the one that does not want to admit how un-democratic and how corrupt america is,"

No, America only has occasional isolated incidents of corruption. The Soviet Union had corruption running rampant! Your communist utopias have a way of becoming cesspools of corruption in very short order!

"I've known that for over 25 years."

You've been a fool for over 25 years?

"You should tell americans the truth about their facsist republic and stop telling the world to support a goverment that you don't even believe in,"

Where did I say that I don't believe in the government of the United States? For the record: I believe in the government of the United States of America.

"you know what they call people who act like that capitalist hypocrites."

This is comical! An communist idiot-logue that uses run-on sentences, bad grammar and spelling trying to end a political rant with a profound point. You are a pathetic fool.

* = Initial comment
= Grandpa h.



I said:
"But they are still having their freedoms traded to make
a small group of wealthy people wealthier.
I personally think we need to challenge multinational corporate politics."

You responded:
Great idea!*
Let's go after the corporations, then we can all walk*
around naked and live in grass huts like they do*
in the 3rd world nations!*

Who's "we"? Because in America, people can challenge corporate agendas and still wear modern clothes. We don't have to live in a hut or in absolute squallor just because we challenged a corporation. And corporations do negative things to 3rd world nations on a regular basis, for that matter.

I said:
"But dictatorships are not democratic. "

Thank you for taking the bait!*
So, it doesn't look so good afterall when you think of it like that, eh?*

What bait? I've never advocated a dictatorship.
What you continue to gloriously ignore is the FACT that corporations, especially the largest ones, are dictatorial/fascistic in structure. Orders are given by a small group of people at the top and carried out below. And sometimes these orders, like those given by governments, create problems.

Grandpa h.

"Who's "we"? Because in America, people can challenge corporate agendas and still wear modern clothes. We don't have to live in a hut or in absolute squallor just because we challenged a corporation. And corporations do negative things to 3rd world nations on a regular basis, for that matter."

If you go after the corporations, the end result will be more money for greedy Dim-ocrat lawyers, and more money for the government. The people end up with less jobs available as the businesses are drivent to the brink of bankruptcy, or driven out of business altogether with punitive judgements handed down by Federal courts.

"What bait? I've never advocated a dictatorship.
What you continue to gloriously ignore is the FACT that corporations, especially the largest ones, are dictatorial/fascistic in structure."

Nope. Not true. As a shareholder in seven different Fortune 500 companies I can tell you that the corporations STILL have to listen to the people that hold stock in the company. Like government, the wheels sometimes move slowly inside of large corporations, but they do move and change does eventually occur as a result.

"Orders are given by a small group of people at the top and carried out below. And sometimes these orders, like those given by governments, create problems."

Orders for the day to day operations are given by a small group of people at the top. That is as it should be. Afterall, their job is to run the company! Company policies that have far-reaching ramifications for the company are subject to approval by a much larger group known as "the shareholders." Shareholders vote once a year on company policies for the next calendar year, and shareholders have a very loud voice within a company!

Another thing is that Public Relations are a huge concern of corporations. Look at how long it took Exxon to repair their image, after the Exxon Valdez disaster in Alaska. Corporations will even entertain serious discussions on reparations for slavery, rather than risk getting ANY bad publicity!

Now you tell me that I'm wrong, and further show your ignorance of how corporate America operates.

* = Initial comment
= Grandpa h.



I said:
"Who's 'we'?
Because in America, people can challenge corporate agendas and still
wear modern clothes.
We don't have to live in a hut or in
absolute squallor just because we challenged a corporation.
And corporations do negative things to 3rd world nations on
a regular basis, for that matter."

You responded:
If you go after the corporations, the end result will*
be more money for greedy Dim-ocrat lawyers, and more*
money for the government*

Here you assume that corporations never support greedy lawyers and that they never act in tandem with the government, which is plainly false. I do think being able to sue for certain things is a decent idea because otherwise you'd have more instances of people taking justice into their own hands.
If you wnat to see lawers fighting dirty, I recommend you check out the McLibel case.
Sem and I don't agree on everything, obviously, but one of the key things we do agree on is an end to corporate welfare and such. That is essentially what I mean by "going against corporations." And there are some occasions where corporations do change their policies before a lawsuit even appears. And, again--"Dim-ocrat"...HILARIOUS!! That one has me rolling in the aisles every time I hear it!

The people end up with less jobs available as the*
businesses are drivent to the brink of bankruptcy, or driven*
out of business altogether with punitive judgements handed down by*
Federal courts.*

In my personal opinion, any person or institution that does something that goes against certain obvious virtues deserves punishment.

I said:
"What bait?
I've never advocated a dictatorship.
What you continue to gloriously ignore is the FACT that
corporations, especially the largest ones, are dictatorial/fascistic in structure."

You responded:
Nope.*
Not true.*

fascism n : a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)

As a shareholder in seven different Fortune 500 companies I*
can tell you that the corporations STILL have to listen*
to the people that hold stock in the company.*

And even a dictatorship needs to listen to those in the hierarchy, otherwise the leader will not likely lead for very long.

Like government, the wheels sometimes move slowly inside of large*
corporations, but they do move and change does eventually occur*
as a result.*

Or changes may not happen at all, just like the government.
Why should we let corporations OR the government run the world?

I said:
"Orders are given by a small group of people at
the top and carried out below.
And sometimes these orders, like those given by governments, create
problems."

You responded:
Orders for the day to day operations are given by*
a small group of people at the top.*
That is as it should be.*

Not in my opinion, but that's how it is.

Afterall, their job is to run the company!*
Company policies that have far-reaching ramifications for the company*
are subject to approval by a much larger group known*
as "the shareholders."*

Who are part of the unaccountable hierarchy.

Shareholders vote once a year on company policies for the*
next calendar year, and shareholders have a very loud voice*
within a company!*

What you are talking about is micro-democracy, essentially....which ANY system can have some semblance of. However, it is different from a participatory democracy in which those ordinary people who do not have corporate interests in mind are not excluded.
That's the problem with large corporations. They tend to exclude people, get government money and then act like they have the communities' interests in mind.
Smaller businesses, like smaller governments, are much better.

Another thing is that Public Relations are a huge concern*
of corporations.*
Look at how long it took Exxon to repair their*
image, after the Exxon Valdez disaster in Alaska.*

Of course they are. Any institution is going to attempt to promote a positive image of itself.

Corporations will even entertain serious discussions on reparations for slavery,*
rather than risk getting ANY bad publicity!*

Which doesn't spell "democracy" in any sense. Every institution that wishes to survive has a concept of good PR and bad PR.

Now you tell me that I'm wrong, and further show*
your ignorance of how corporate America operates.*

Corporate America operates to make money for itself...that's why its been heading to Mexico, to India, Nigeria, etc. etc.
Because when it does business in these places it can operate however it pleases.

Grandpa h.

BTK,you lost this debate because you know that america doesn't have a democracy ,it has a Republic.

Thought maybe GW's jackboots had come and picked USAC up.
Glad to see you are alive and well.

"BTK,you lost this debate because you know that america doesn't have a democracy ,it has a Republic."

That's what I was saying! You've done a 180 degree turn here. You were saying that America is a Democracy, and not a Representative Republic. America is not a Democracy-- it is a Representative Republic! You parrot back exactly what I was saying, then tell me that I LOST the debate? "USSA" commie you are one incredibly stupid individual!!

"BTK,you lost this debate because you know that america doesn't have a democracy ,it has a Republic."

That's what I was saying! You've done a 180 degree turn here. You were saying that America is a Democracy, and not a Representative Republic. America is not a Democracy-- it is a Representative Republic! You parrot back exactly what I was saying, then tell me that I LOST the debate? "USSA" commie you are one incredibly stupid individual!

BTK, your incrediably dumb if you don't get my point, Bush is lieing when he asks countries to support democracy like america has, furthermore, you prove my point by admitting that america does not have a democracy, it is controlled by rich elitest, the democrates and republicans are both capitalist political parties that only represent capitalists intrests, if america would just tell the truth to children in this country then they wouldn't be so confused about what american politics really is, un-democratic, the majority of working americans don't get represented in congress by either party.

Wrong! The Dim-ocrat Party does NOT represent Capitalist interests. Theif Party Platform is a little to close to the "communist Manifesto" for them to ba a Capitalist-oriented Party.

You are really dumb if you think that there is a dimes worth of diference between the republicans and democrates capitalistic belief and support. There is no left wing of the democrate party, only in the limited mind of capitalists like you,who believe that there is a leftist socialist view of capitalists in the democrate party. I hate the democrates more than I do the republicans, because they pretend to be vastly different than the republicans but, they are not any different when it comes to the important issues of health care, social security, urban developement,upper education and many other issues. Real socialists have a totally opposing view of what democrates want and believe in, again, I have to say you full of s#%&t.

USA COMMUNIST IS A COMMIE TREE HUGGER!!!!!