Harold's Post:

Jim...well said!
July 20 2008 at 4:30 AM Bro. Harold (no login)
from IP address 98.122.142.160


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Jim: Christian greetings! The thread where you posted your thoughts is lost in the midst of a myriad of postings, so I thought I'd bring it out in a new and more visible place! I want to tell you that what you have posted has given me much joy! There are so many "pros and cons" (mostly cons) as to what is truth. I can see that you have gained a clear insight as to where God's Divine Plan is in relation to those who are "called and chosen."
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Steam: Same books you study Harold! No scriptures showing up here, do you have scripturl support for yout beliefs?
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You stated: "I believe the door is closed." If I recall correctly, some time ago you were unsure if this was so."
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Stream: Another example of one losing his faith and being shoved down into the Great Multitude and you are wondering why it is taking so long to get 144,000?
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"The chart shows the Gospel Age is over. The Harvest was the beginning and end of the Age. There are no more to harvest out of Babylon as Babylon is gone."
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Steam: The Chart shows a dotted line, we tought it was 1914 but we now know it was not 1914, at least some do! But think; the crown wearers are all out of Babylon; but is that all of the Harvest? NO! The Harvest must gain 144,000 crown wearers and will continue untill it does. A certain number of years is indicated in Rev. 21:17 inwhich the Church shallbe built but you are denying that and rejecting he Word of the Lord in your blidness.
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Well said Jim! We can see that from chronology and prophecy that the close of spirit begettal HAD TO END at the close of the Gospel Harvest. We find further corroboration of this in the Tabernacle, the Great Pyramid and the teachings of Bro. Russell.
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Steam: Just give one scripture in support of your belief, plese.
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Consider the thoughts of Pastor Russell as given in volume 6 of the Studies in the Scriptures, "The New Creation" page 399: (I will use caps for emphasis purposes only)

"Before proceeding to notice particularly THE JUDGEMENT OR TRIAL OF THE NEW CREATION DURING THE GOSPEL AGE, PRIOR TO THE MILLENNIAL KINGDOM, we should impress deeply upon our minds the fact that all of these procedures, judgments, etc., are of the Father, though through the Son and through the Church; even as also we read respecting the resurrection of the dead, that God raised up from the dead our Lord Jesus by his own power, and that he also will raise us up; which statement we understand to be in full harmony with our Lord's declaration that "I will raise him up at the last day." "I will come again, and receive you unto myself." "I am the resurrection and the life." 1 Cor. 6: 14; John 6: 39; 14: 3; 11: 25

THE JUDGEMENT OR TRIAL OF THE NEW CREATION MUST TAKE PLACE DURING THIS GOSPEL AGE, BEFORE THE MILLENNIUM SHALL HAVE BEEN FULLY INTRODUCED; because it is the New Creation, Head and body, which is to do the work of the Millennial age. It is in harmony with this that the Lord declares that we "shall not come into condemnation [krisis, judgment] with the world [not share in the world's Millennial-day judgment or trial], but are [already] passed from death unto life [in advance of the world], " justified by faith and obedience as members of his body. (John 5: 24) So, then, the present time, the present life, is to each of the consecrated ones his day of judgment, his day of trial, his day of testing —to determine whether or not he shall be accounted worthy of life under the terms of his call and consecration. The Apostle's words agree with this: "Judgment [krima, final decision] must begin with the house of God." (1 Pet. 4: 17) As the Apostle suggests, it gives the New Creation an exalted idea of the divine requirements, or conditions for life everlasting, when they consider that those who have forsaken sin and who have set their hearts to know and to do the divine will need to pass through a time of trial to test The New Creation. 400 them and to perfect character in them—such as the Lord can approve
The Pastor said if we go on and find no increasing light, then we are not progressing. There has been no real increased light in many, many years, and classes are split and don't have much in common...in fellowship of beliefs."
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Steam: Why do you reject the Pastor's own words in 1916 but revert bck to 1889? As for the increased light; what about the new light you believe from PSL? Dosen't that count? And how about your statement that you wn't come into condemnation with the world? Scripture please because this is not true!
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You further stated: "The General Call ended in 1881, yet the Lord cannot complete the Church without replacements for 134 years? The Lord sees past and future and knows all things. He knows who would make it before they were born. What possible reason to keep begetting people that He knows will never make it? I don't buy it."
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Steam: The Lord knew before the world began; why would he wait to entertain these efforts of the near past? Because all of this works to illustrate the consequences of one litle sin for the cratures tha are to be created i the future. And I can understand why you don't buy it too. Just doesn't fit your plan does it?
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Jim, I think you are "right on the money" here! The call for replacements was for only a short duration and that call ended in Oct. 1914. Nowhere...absolutely nowhere can it be found that the "call" to spirit-begettal would extend beyond that point. To say that it has is to apply "rubber band" thinking to one's hopes or desires! There are no scriptures to support that there would be a second call after the close of the one call.
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Steam: There ar no scriptures to support the thought that spirit begettel ended in 1914; and you know it.
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"I am learning how to live on earth now that I have given up this nonsense idea that the door is open. Exercise, eat right, and live a moral life. Laziness will not be tolerated, nor will gluttony. A person needs no more than 2000-2500 calories a day to live."
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Steam: Got it all figured out, except your own responsibility to the Lord, he took you by the hand and led you to the Present Truth; how doyou Thank him? You didn't you just quit!
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Good thoughths Jim, and add to that "continue to study" for it is a lifelong effort that is so essential (and this I am certain you are aware of).

"R5950 does not say the Harvest continues for another 300 years. It said the Harvest continued when he wrote it. That means there were still spirit begotten in the church systems."
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Steam: So the remarks made on Reprints 5950-51 and Vol 2 Foreword are nothing to you? You just reject them and swallow what you like.
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Very astute Jim! Very astute!

"Should I end up in Heaven as a Crown winner, Great Company, or here on earth as a mere mortal human, or even in the Second Death, I leave it in the Lord's hands."
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Steam: You will leave it in the Lord's hands because you have no recourse to do otherwise. A favor was offer and you hav rejecte it, don't worry about a crown, you have rejected that.
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"One thing is for sure Jim and that is that spirit begettal has long ago ended.
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Steam: I think you should tell God about it seems like he doesn't know it.
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Therefore there need be no worry about a crown or being of the Great Company or of the second death at this time. With the end of spirit begettal there could no longer be crowns awarded, no further membership in the Great Company and no second death at this time. Will there be a second death? Yes, scripture shows us that those who fail to make sufficient progress in the "Times of Restitution" will be "cut off" and will be as "if they never were."

Jim...never fear the thoughts of man!
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Steam: Does that include PSL Johnson?
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Stand up for the truth no matter the cost! God will love you even more!
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Steam: He has already quit same as you did Harold.
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God Bless, Bro. Harold