We agree!


THE "LITTLE SISTER" OF CANT. 8: 8

(35) Cant. 8: 8 pictures prophetically the Church as declaring—after 1881 in the Harvest Reaping time, the 40-year Parousia—that she has a fellow class of non-Spirit-begotten new consecrators (a little sister), i.e., the Youthful Worthies. Bro. Russell (e.g., in F 156, 157) and others made mention of these, but no Old Testament nor New Testament passages of Scripture (hath no breasts) were given to prove the existence of such consecrators; they inferred this from the consideration that the close of the General Call (in 1881) was followed by the coming in of more new consecrators than the number of available crowns, and from the attitude of the Divine attributes toward the faith classes. But there came in the Epiphany period, at whose beginning in 1914 the door of entrance into the High Calling closed for new aspirants (Luke 13: 24-27), the time when it was due for this class to begin to come to the front. It was the time also for them to be recognized as such...

That's where Cant 8:8 begins

as its been noted, the closing of the general call began in 1878 per Bro R and completed in 1881... none could get in after 1878... none fell out until after oct 1881... they were in the crucible.

Jonalfred said: as its been noted, the closing of the general call began in 1878 per Bro R and completed in 1881... none could get in after 1878... none fell out until after oct 1881... they were in the crucible.

Bro. Jon, can you show me where YOUR thought is shown here?

(35) Cant. 8: 8 pictures prophetically the Church as declaring—after 1881 in the Harvest Reaping time, the 40-year Parousia—that she has a fellow class of non-Spirit-begotten new consecrators (a little sister), i.e., the Youthful Worthies. Bro. Russell (e.g., in F 156, 157) and others made mention of these, but no Old Testament nor New Testament passages of Scripture (hath no breasts) were given to prove the existence of such consecrators; they inferred this from the consideration that the close of the General Call (in 1881) was followed by the coming in of more new consecrators than the number of available crowns, and from the attitude of the Divine attributes toward the faith classes. But there came in the Epiphany period, at whose beginning in 1914 the door of entrance into the High Calling closed for new aspirants (Luke 13: 24-27), the time when it was due for this class to begin to come to the front. It was the time also for them to be recognized as such...

look closely... my thought is NOT shown there

look here:

From PT #279, February 1942, page 27:
"Apart from those Ancient Worthies who lived before the Covenant, but who were by God anticipatorily considered as in that Covenant, the first ones actually to enter the antitypical Ark—the Covenant—were Abraham and Sarah. Hence the antitypical Ark was first entered by the Ancient Worthies as a class in the persons of Abraham and Sarah in 2045 B.C. The last of all the classes to enter the antitypical Ark consists of the Youthful Worthies. They as a class first entered the antitypical Ark in 1881, when the General Call ceased, and as a result the surplus consecrators became a class different from any other class."

I wonder why he left out the words OF INDIVIDUALS... simply says they entered the Ark as a class in 1881... in 1942. hmmmmmmmm

So you see he did view them as a class here... but not a manifested class. It was however manifested to him.

peace

Dear Bro. Jon,

with the theme of Berean study and harmonizing the scriptures, we are addressing the Canticles 8:8 reference; not the Ark Antitype. I don't see 1878 mentioned here?


Jonalfred said: as its been noted, the closing of the general call began in 1878 per Bro R and completed in 1881... none could get in after 1878... none fell out until after oct 1881... they were in the crucible.

Bro. Jon, can you show me where YOUR thought is shown here?

(35) Cant. 8: 8 pictures prophetically the Church as declaring—after 1881 in the Harvest Reaping time, the 40-year Parousia—that she has a fellow class of non-Spirit-begotten new consecrators (a little sister), i.e., the Youthful Worthies. Bro. Russell (e.g., in F 156, 157) and others made mention of these, but no Old Testament nor New Testament passages of Scripture (hath no breasts) were given to prove the existence of such consecrators; they inferred this from the consideration that the close of the General Call (in 1881) was followed by the coming in of more new consecrators than the number of available crowns, and from the attitude of the Divine attributes toward the faith classes. But there came in the Epiphany period, at whose beginning in 1914 the door of entrance into the High Calling closed for new aspirants (Luke 13: 24-27), the time when it was due for this class to begin to come to the front. It was the time also for them to be recognized as such...

PT 1979 page 58

(81) Included especially among the rest of God's people in the antitypical journey are "those consecrating between the Ages" (Z 5761). These have enlightenment, heart-warming and energizing of the holy Spirit (but not Spirit-begettal), as was the case also with the Ancient Worthies, with whom they will be associated in the Mediatorial Kingdom (F 156, 157). Among these are the Youthful Worthies, referred to in many of the Scriptures expounded in this treatise. Before the General Call to the high calling ceased in 1881, the Youthful Worthies did not exist as individuals of a class; but since then they have come into existence as such, and since the Fall of 1914 have become very marked as a separate and distinct class.

After the General Call ceased in 1881, more people consecrated than could be probationarily assigned vacated crowns. The Lord held these consecrators in reserve, and assigned to some crowns that were vacated; but the number of vacated crowns became less and less, and ceased entirely in 1914, when the last eventual Little Flock members came under the call (see PT No. 515—a copy free on request). After 1914 many more consecrated, and thus many more Youthful Worthies came forth. They are indicated in F 156, 157; Z 4836, pars. 3-6, 10, 11; 5761, col. 2, pars. 1, 2; Question Book, pp. 151, 152, 154, 156-158. This class also has been in the antitypical journey and will continue in it for some years yet.

Our Fifteenth Annual Report (1933)

PT 1933, P. 182--"Thus he was used by the Lord to supervise the foundation of the Epiphany work; and having completed this he was called to his glorious reward, since among other reasons, his continuance in the flesh would have prevented the complete untying of Azazel's Goat and the separation of the Little Flock and the Great Company, because during his stay here the involved revolution could not have taken place, nor would the Great Company in the Truth, all convinced that he was that Servant, have separated themselves from those who rallied to him.

Hence it was expedient that he go beyond the vail in order to the further unfolding of the Lord's plan, since with the completion of the Little Flock the next thing in the unfolding of the plan would, of course, be the work toward the Great Company and the Youthful Worthies as classes."

Our Seventeenth Annual Report (1935)

PT 1935, P. 174--"Turning our eyes to the Lord's people we see the indications of Epiphany conditions as to them fulfilling also. Broadly speaking there are two stages in the Epiphany for the Lord's people: (1) that of the priesthood's dealing with the Great Company as Azazel's Goat and as uncleansed Levites; and (2) that of the priesthood's leading the work of the cleansed Levites, the Youthful Worthies sharing with the priesthood or with the Great Company in these two things, dependent on their characters. Incidentally the Lord is calling the Youthful Worthies as a class. These works as due have been fulfilling.

Here, in this 1935 PT Annual Report, Epiphany conditions are briefly mentioned. The word "incidentally" means that the calling of the Youthful Worthies AS A CLASS is a point of fact of a subordinate nature to Epiphany events 1 and 2. Had they become a class in the Gospel Age Harvest (1881), they would not be secondary to these other events in the Epiphany.

The Antitypical Ark - Two Dates for One Event?August 24 2008 at 7:54 AM Bro. James (no login)
from IP address 75.59.205.83


Response to Youthful Worthies 1881-1914?
See PT 2006 Page 22.

“The emphasis put forth in the preceding writing is that the Youthful Worthies came forth as a class in 1881 not 1914”. (This thought or assumption doesn’t harmonize as Bro. Johnson explains, and nor does the erroneous view that two dates are correct as the assumption in this case indicates: 1881 not 1914 nor will you find this statement: "Youthful Worthies came forth as a class in 1881 not 1914" by any of the Spirit Begotten Servants.) Reference E Vol. 5 Page 63 Par. 60. We should also read page 74, 75 Par. 73 from E Vol. 5 and PT 1942 Page 62 to get the complete thought and clarification from Bro. Johnson.

Please take note of the word “Anticipatorily” and its explanation. It means "as in the future".

Example: Question (1972)—When did Jesus become the Head of the world’s Mediator?

Answer.—At the time the angel announced the birth of Jesus, He was called “Christ, the Lord” (Luke2: 11). This was spoken anticipatorily (Rom. 4: 17), in view of the fact that the babe Jesus was the same one who in due time would be Christ.


E. Vol 5 Page 74 Par 73

The last day of these antitypical 56 days began Jan., 1871. During this antitypical day our Lord returned, raised the sleeping Saints, cast off Babylon, ended the General Call, and began to develop the Youthful Worthies, who were from God's viewpoint anticipatorily in the antitypical Ark with all its other classes from the beginning of the antitypical Flood year.

Questions on page 95 – 96 E Vol 5

Please read these questions and compare them to the paragraph.

(73) What is the second question arising from the preceding discussion on the Flood year? What do the conditions before the Flood type? The Flood year? Of what was entering the Ark a type? What benefit in this connection did God give Abel, Enoch and Noah? By contrast how did He treat classes who came into existence long after the Covenant was made? On what Bible principle? On what other principle may the Youthful Worthies be said anticipatorily to have entered the Ark in 2045 B.C.? What does this do with our question?...

PT. 1942 Page 62 Col 1

Question: Is it not self - contradictory to teach that the antitypical Flood year began 2045 B.C., and that persons, typical of classes which began to exist thousands of years later, entered the ark before the Flood began, while these classes entered the antitypical Ark long after the antitypical Flood year began?

Answer: We are to remember that the antitype of the days before the Flood year (Luke 17:20, 27) consists of conditions in the world before and especially during the Parousia and Epiphany, while the Flood year represents the time during which the elect classes by consecration entered into covenant relations with God (1 Pet. 3:20 [ last clause ], 21). Entering the Ark was a part of the former picture. As God in the cases of Abel, Enoch, Noah, etc., anticipatorily gave them the benefits of the Abrahamic Covenant, i.e., treated them as being in that Covenant centuries before it was made, so He anticipatorily considered classes to be in the antitypical Ark – the Abrahamic Covenant – centuries before these classes came into being, on the principle that God “calleth those things that are not as though they were,” in view of His plan respecting them (Rom. 4: 17). This will harmonize the apparent discrepancy.

"Answer: We are to remember that the antitype of the days before the Flood year (Luke 17:20, 27) consists of conditions in the world before and especially during the Parousia and Epiphany, while the Flood year represents the time during which the elect classes by consecration entered into covenant relations with God (1 Pet. 3:20 [ last clause ], 21). Entering the Ark was a part of the former picture. As God in the cases of Abel, Enoch, Noah, etc., anticipatorily gave them the benefits of the Abrahamic Covenant, i.e., treated them as being in that Covenant centuries before it was made, so He anticipatorily considered classes to be in the antitypical Ark – the Abrahamic Covenant – centuries before these classes came into being, on the principle that God “calleth those things that are not as though they were,” in view of His plan respecting them (Rom. 4: 17). This will harmonize the apparent discrepancy."

Bro. James, the above reference makes the ark picture so clear. Just because the YWs are in this picture, does not make them a class in 1881. Thanks.

The current editor of the PT cited the General Call as ceasing in 1881.

Prior to that most recent citation, 1881 has always been the date.

You need to go to the LHMM CD/tape library and start listening to some talks.

Ironically, there were those of us, when this "present view" came out, said....the very next thing to fall will be the date the General Call ceased. Everything to make that "present view" work.