Let me preface this by stating that MOST of us live in America, home of the free...

...and as a performance artist living in America, I'm a big fan of freedom of speech...

...and let me say that if you want to post without a name, you are free to do so, but I am also free to set the board so that all who do so are automatically named "chicken's anonymous" - even if it was an accident! It is meant to discourage anonymous posting...

...But mainly I want to say, that if you want to leave the LHMM, then I think you are FREE to do so! But are they not a mere publishing house? Who there is your leader? Do you have a leader among men? Shame on you!

Be like me - free from ALL sectarian bondage. I don't claim any affiliation with any group, sect or denomination, and would be loathe to do so.

LIBERTY in Christ means we all stand on our own! If you think that it means anything to God that you are in or out of step with any particular human being at this time, you are in for a big lesson in humanity - that all are fallen and come short...

...ok. So this is all very elementary. Let me get to the gist of it. I think this forum is a great place because, A. It is a FREE forum, where NO JOINING is required. You can't POSSIBLY "join" this forum! There is no such thing...

and B. this forum is a place where traditionally, foundationally, we can introduce the world in general, the uninitiated to the TRUTH, sharing with them something better than what they see in the world - i.e. the splits among Baptists, the separation of the Episcopals, the division among the Catholics, the controversies among the JW's, and so on and so on...

BUT NOW this place has become a billboard for antagonism among Truth people? Where one group with one position on one doctrine feel it is their duty to point out to the world that they are quite "miffed", and the others are lording it over them!

Are they really? Do these people really constrict your personal religious liberty in any way to believe what you want and to fellowship with whomever you like? If so, I feel sorry for you that you allow them that much power. NO ONE has any such power over me. I am quite free, and I'm so used to it by now, that I can freely laugh at anyone's effort to restrict me in any sense. (like the time some joker said "there are some influential elders that will be monitoring this board" - to which I replied, "tell them that you and they can go to flaming hades below, to be poked in the rear by fireproof devils for all eternity and then some" or something to that effect. What a joke! Indeed...

THIS FORUM is a place to share the TRUE GOSPEL, not the caricature I just mentioned. However this penchant of late for pounding others over their particular view over the year 1878 makes us seem not merely esoteric - it makes us look, dare I say? CULTISH!

Let's not defeat the purpose of the forum. But let's allow liberty within the bounds of Truth, fairness and good taste. Let's debate 1878 on the Epiphany Truth Forum - http://www.network54.com/Forum/127498/ - and let's do it in a way that allows others to adhere to their own convictions without being defamed or what have you - as far as is possible!

OK. That's what I had to say, in the hopes that we can have BLESSED CONVERSATION take place here. I don't want to see it turn into an "us vs. them" board. Let's share the reason for our joy, instead of our sour grapes. If someone doesn't agree with us, we can either continue to meet with them in the spirit of hope and patience that we can agree with them in time, OR we have FULL LIBERTY to simply move to another ecclesia, and by GOD Himself, isn't that grand?

Yours in Truth,

Regan

I agree with what you are saying - most definitely in principal.

Good commentary.

Nice to hear from you, though.


:: }
@ }
:. }

Bro. Regan, I purchased both your cd's a while back and I like what I hear. One song that I noticed and have been wanting to bring up is the one saying 'the Iraqi people are free.' The title of this thread got me thinking about it so I'll post here.

At first thought it might seem strange to include a geopolitical song in an album of religious songs.

However I once saw a compilation of the good results which American soldiers have been achieving in Iraq... [i]And it made me think 'foregleams of restitution.'[/i] It's remarkable, the progress we've made in undoing the damage under Saddam's regime.

The list includes opening (or re-opening) hospitals, schools, power plants, water and sewer utilities, businesses... on and on.

Here's a weblink:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2006698/posts

Comparing this good news to what we were used to hearing (mass murder, torture, etc.) -- it's a boost! [i]Especially since we as truth people realize that it will go on worldwide someday.[/i]

Whence we can get a religious impact of the lyrics 'the Iraqi people are free.' And it's being handed to them by a nation which bears the name of Christ.

As we know our military presence in Iraq is controversial. It's rare that we hear our slack media tell about the good results there. Will Iraq continue with its newly civilized state of things? It depends on their people's resolve and their people's appreciation of freedom.

Thank you for getting it.

http://www.myspace.com/octaman1

Waitingwun,

It seems as if you are saying that what we are doing in Iraq is a foregleam of the Kingdom.

I think not.

Isa. 2:4 "And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall learn war any more."

This scripture brother, is a foregleam of the Kingdom.

We did not go into Iraq because we were concerned for the people living there. We went in because we said they had "weapons of mass destruction." There were those who said this was not the case, but we went anyway.

Do you know how many Iraqi civilian deaths have been caused by our invasion? Go to www.iraqbodycount.org and you will see close to 100,000 official civilian deaths. Some feel this is quite conservative.

If we were so concerned about helping people around the world, then why did we ignore the genocide in Darfur, which was much more atrocious?

This war certainly hasn't progressed like Israel's 1967, Six-Day war. It may have removed Saddam Hussein (whom we once supported), but is has left in its stead near civil war there at times, and us so in debt as a country, as to put us in an extremely dangerous financial position.

Quote from Syl Jones - columnist: "The Almighty has never approved of 99 percent of what is done on earth in his name."

This posting in memory of my favorite politician (and a personal hero) - Paul David Wellstone (July 21, 1944 – October 25, 2002)

After voting against the congressional authorization for the war in Iraq on October 11, 2002, in the midst of a tight election, Wellstone is said to have told his wife, "I just cost myself the election."

Thanks for always voting you conscience Paul. We need more like you.

Since the Return of the King in 1874 there has been steady progress along the lines of liberty throughout the globe. Slavery is no longer a global institution. Communism no longer has an iron grip of oppression on millions of people. The United States has been instrumental in the spread of that freedom and liberty, and I believe that it will only increase as the light of the Millennial Dawn gets progressively brighter - by whatever means.

On another front, many nations are guilty of various affronts to God's chosen people Israel. Their national punishment will take on various forms, but all who oppose Israel will suffer the same ignominious defeat in the end. Iraq was guilty of supporting terrorism, and it was only a matter of time before they aided the terrorists in bringing harm to the U.S. Pastor Russell himself has said that a sovereign nation has the right to self-defense. Saddam Hussein was rattling his saber in direct violation of at least seventeen U.N. security council resolutions...

Now Iraq is no longer aligned with the rest of the nations predicted to come against Israel in the 38th chapter of Ezekiel. Bear that in mind, that it must have been a part of God's plan.

One of the last bastions of oppression in the world is Islam. Just ask the women there, like Iraqi voter Betty Dawisha

Or as sung by the incomparable Octaman - "You're next, Syria...You're next Iran!"

http://www.myspace.com/octaman1

Peace!? (Oh no not yet!)

I agree that Islam is repressive. I have big issues with it as a Christian - basically because it denies our Savior.

Iraq was not a threat to us or Israel and the terrorism we faced on 9/11 did not come from there.

They did not have weapons of mass destruction, and little of anything else left either, after sanctions.

Iran is a threat to Israel. I agree. Israel seems to do just fine taking care of their needs, as evidenced by - The Six Day War, and taking out the reactor in Iran. We provide support, but they do just fine.

God does not NEED anyone or any country to make things happen.

I think we would have more blessings now than we do if we were doing the right thing as a country, but we are having to face the music just like the rest of the world.

War should be entered into as a last resort.

Iraq was not a threat to us or Israel

Saddam Hussein boasted of his intention to destroy Israel with a one million man army of soldiers and citizens.

Saddam Hussein paid $25,000 cash to the family of every suicide bomber who killed Jews in buses, pizza parlors and weddings.

Saddam Hussein launched thirty-nine scud missiles into Israel during the first Gulf War, the last of which was tipped with a chemical warhead that miraculously failed to explode. Israel was about to retaliate with a nuclear warhead (as per their stated rules of engagement if ever attacked by poison gas again) - but they were stopped by the Americans.

The Americans, meanwhile are bad actors on the scene, and can hardly be counted on for any "support." The money they set aside for Israel must be spent by Israel on U.S. goods, so it is hardly a gift.

And Israel did not take out any reactor in Iran. It was in Iraq. Saddam Hussein had a nuclear program, no matter how frantically it is denied by the left. The Pentagon even put Saddam's nuclear documents online as prima facie evidence.

Of course, the left went hysterical. After lying and denying up and down that Saddam ever had a nuclear program, now that the evidence was posted online they screamed more vociferously, "how can you do that! Iran will have the information and it will endanger the U.S.!

Oh! I thought it was no danger at all, since it never existed.

Now ask yourself. Does Saddam Hussein sit around idle while Iran ramps up its nuclear weapons program? Anyone knows that answer.

because Saddam is Dead?

I'm sorry! All answers must be in the form of a question.

Oh yours was!

I'm sorry, now what was the question which was your answer?

"Now ask yourself. Does Saddam Hussein sit around idle while Iran ramps up its nuclear weapons program? Anyone knows that answer."

Didn't know if this was a trick question since Saddam was executed and is dead. Wasn't sure where you were going with this one...

That was a rhetorical hypothetical.

Saddam refused UN inspectors more than once. This alone was sufficient prompting for us to go and 'do an intervention'.

He also used WMD's in the form of lethal gas to kill thousands of Kurds during the 1990's.

So Saddam had to go. Especially with all those reports of atrocities under his regime.

So then once Saddam was gone, one could argue that 'nation building' isn't our job and we should leave. Why are US soldiers still there? Possibly to fix the damage done by Saddam, particularly in view of the fact that we supported him previously.

100,000 civilian deaths? As I hear it, the insurgents are the bulk of deaths. I have doubts about that figure since there are so many appeasement types denigrating attempts by the US to restrain terrorism. If civilians really were being massacred I have no doubt that there are journalists in Iraq who'd be anxious to report it, as well as media outlets in America anxious to badmouth our efforts in Iraq.

Is what we're accomplishing there worth 4,000 deaths of US soldiers? Should we have invaded Iran or Saudi Arabia instead? I haven't sufficient information to know for sure. If we don't fight terrorists there we'd have to fight them here (on US soil).

Do we have to be at war? Does anyone have to be at war? We certainly can't afford to be at peace while Satan continues to oppress peaceable people. Remember how the archangel told Daniel he had to 'withstand the prince of Persia'? In my heart of hearts I'd like to hope the angels set up barriers around the good countries so they wouldn't have to go to war, but even if that happens to a small extent, God also lets nations use military forces to stop (or else be defeated by) the scourge of tyranny and oppression in the world.

Just going to comment on one thing out of this post. Regular news media has reported on deaths - of children, of people at weddings, etc.

My father-in-law was in Iraq for awhile and he saw civilian deaths and injuries - innocent bystanders, including two shepared boys.

If you need to be in denial about the war - so be it.

It disgusts me.

I do not have respect for your view on this matter. Sorry.



Note: Weapons inspectors were ultimatelly allowed in and they didn't find anything.

Answer re civilian deaths in Iraq:

Can't deny there have been civilian deaths under US occupation. Naturally we'd all prefer no civilian deaths at all.

However with the end of the scourge of Saddam's reign, do you recognize there are now FAR FEWER civilians being killed, tortured, gassed, shot, tossed off bridges, raped, baked, or fed into wood chipping machines? Those are just a few of Saddam's reported atrocities. Perhaps you heard about them.

You can say it's not worth the deaths of American soldiers. Yet their efforts may be preserving the lives of thousands who would otherwise die.

Therefore in view of good results the US has achieved in Iraq, it would be a tremendous boon if we were to do the same favor for civilian populations living under tyranny in other countries such as Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, etc.

Answer re presence of WMD's:

Saddam's WMD's were relocated before inspectors were allowed in. See this New York Sun article (published 2006):

http://www.nysun.com/foreign/iraqs-wmd-secreted-in-syria-sada-says/26514/