..... I mean we ARE in denial right?
Bowie is abstract and esoteric,
Whilst Morrissey is socially relevant,
sexually enveloping, and generally liberating!
Bowie did for the twentieth century
what Morrissey did for the twenty first century



__________________________
"Humming Mahler
we serve Ant an atomic wedgie"
____________________________

You cannot compare the two.

Bowie is about change. Progression.

Moz, although I am a big fan, has hardly changed his sound in his whole career.

Moz was in the wilderness for pretty much of the 90's. Bowie for the majority of the 80's and both came back strong.

The both lost there mojo but regained it. So in that there is a similarity.

Personally I dont see a need for comparison, Bowie is an absolute genius without doubt !

Morrisey is pretty unique I cant think of anyone who is remotely similar , which in my book is a good thing , I personally like the way he gets his word/lyric across , its a bit like all these words dont quite fit in , but they bloody well will when I'm done , ha ha ha superb .

morrissey doing soemthing for the 21st century ? its over 20 years since he did anything half decent,and now he is just a fat bigot living of the trappings of a career built on profits from tax dodging student layabouts from manchester.....too compare he with bowie is just pathetic..

girlfriend in a coma ? im not suprised mr morrissey,your a boring twat

love on ya jamesd

..

If you think morrisey is boring , then I suspect you havent really listened !

"its over 20 years since he did anything half decent"

Quarry ? Ringleader ? Me thinks someone needs a new hearing aid amongst other thangs.

morissey is indeed a one trick pony. and since he split from marr even that trick isn't very good.how soon is now was a classic though...

Even if it were true (which it isn't), Morrisey's "big impact" on the 21st century only extends as far as England. I am amazed how much he is discussed on this board. I can guarantee you it is NOT the same elsewhere.

I cannot make you out with your fingers in your mouth.
But I'll tell you what, I find it refreshing from time
to time to discuss what is not discussed else where.
(The discussion that dares not speak its name)
It's like,.... revolutionary!
You know, you can appreciate different artists for what they
bring to the table. This isn't religion or Professional Wrestling...
you can have "two bests" and not be burned on the stake.
cheers, big ears



__________________________
"Humming Herman's hermits,
we serve Ant an atomic wedgie"
____________________________

is a vile nasty queen. In the early 90's I came across Morrissey at parties. The connection being my b/f was a friend of his b/f. He was rude nasty and was an example of the repressed homosexual in the mode of Kenneth Williams. I actually feel sorry for him.

<<is a vile nasty queen. In the early 90's I came across Morrissey at parties. The connection being my b/f was a friend of his b/f. He was rude nasty and was an example of the repressed homosexual in the mode of Kenneth Williams. I actually feel sorry for him.>>

Very interesting read that Noel, many thanks and it confirms what I thought.

____________________________
"Humming Rheingold
We scavenge up our clothes"
____________________________

"..Morrisey is pretty unique I cant think of anyone who is remotely similar..."

Don't know about now; but when I heard the first single by The Smiths it sounded just like Buzzcocks to me - which was a big step backwards in popular music at the time, yet The Smiths were being hyped in the music press as some remarkably new thing.

Morrissey then was similar to Pete Shelley; Jimmy Pursey; Jonathan Richman, and Freddie out of Freddie and The Dreamers...

People said that Morrissey was a very original character breaking new ground lyrically. I guess those people couldn't have heard any of the Modern Lovers albums, or the first two Buzzcocks LPs, or the first two Sham 69 LPs!

Sham 69 Angels with dirty faces

I'm just imagining the clever lyrical way that Mr M. Would have scribed that... ( sigh )
I always considered Stephen Patrick as a sort of socially questioning
kind of individual . He cleverly points things out, (you could learn some things in
that regard) and Morrissey is so funny (you could take a tip there too!)
I sometimes feel most at ease around 'repressed' individuals.
I mean if you find life Jim Friggin Dandy yer' liable to BE a big part of the
problem in the world. It's generally the overconfident that barge around blindly
ruining it for people simply attempting to make some sense of the world.
Morrissey does that, he questions hegemonic masculinity. And he's right to do that.
So Morrissesy feels ill at ease about expressing passion. Or feels really at ease
expressing his repression... I can see little difference at the end of the day.
I like the writings of Morrissey... You write almost as much 2hb....
but I'm afraid, though I love to read your rich and varied views, Mo has you bested.
.... You know, friends hate it when we become successful.
cheers big ears! ":8-)


__________________________
"Humming Herman's hermits,
we serve Ant an atomic wedgie"
____________________________

His 'moz' lyrics have always been great its just the tunes fall down a lot! Does he write any tunes?
Comparing on a one to one basics with Bowie is like comparing the usefulness of a knife over a fork.

I have mastered both!

__________________________
"Humming Herman's hermits,
we serve Ant an atomic wedgie"
____________________________

Quite complicated to compare 2 singers as one of them – nearly your idol, and the other – nothing more than one of a big number you’ve heard and seen.
Morrisey is gifted person, but he could not do anything new; Bowie differs by his ability to be the first !! (I listened mainly Morrisey in the Smiths, later things by him I ordinary don’t like… and he is looking ...troublesome for me)

You are the quarry in my mind is brilliant , and if any proof of talent is needed then listen to the Live aat Earls Court , WONDERFUL!

You can like/love/hate whoever you want.

For me Your Arsenal and Vauxhaul and I are some of the greatest albums ever released by anyone.

What I keep in mind is that if it wasn't for the English music press (which I have personally taken an interest in), I probably would have never heard of the guy in print media and certainly not on radio.

So to say Morrissey has the equivalent social/sexual/liberation impact on our times as Bowie had in his times, well, for me (and I suspect for most territories outside the UK), that is ludicrous.

May the question is that Bowie was ?revelation? for the whole world (just remember his Asian tours) and Morrisey is really mostly for English speaking countires?

"So to say Morrissey has the equivalent social/sexual/liberation impact on our times as Bowie had in his times, well, for me (and I suspect for most territories outside the UK), that is ludicrous."

I agree. Morrissey unarguably had a profound impact on the relatively small amount of people who 'got it' - their obsessiveness and devoutness is proof of that(and I was one of them when The Smiths were around). If Morrissey did have any social/sexual/liberation impact it was back in the 20th Century, which is when the vast majority of his fans first saw something to believe in. He doesn't even write particularly good lyrics in the 21st.

But, imo, the impact was minimal anyway - the importance of The Smiths stayed pretty much at a personal level. They were so idiosyncratic (can't see any relation at all with Sham 69, Buzzcocks, Modern Lovers ???)that there weren't many imitators. The Stone Roses, who weren't in the same league really, were far more influential in a social/cultural way.

<<He doesn't even write particularly good lyrics in the 21st.>>

These are good lyrics.




Life Is A Pigsty

It’s the same old S.O.S.
But with brand new broken fortunes
And once again I turn to you
Once again I do I turn to you
It’s the same old S.O.S.
But with brand new broken fortunes
I’m the same underneath
But this you, you surely knew
Life is a pigsty
Life is a pigsty
Life is a pigsty
Life is a pigsty
Life, life is a pigsty
Life, life is a pigsty
Life, life is a pigsty
Life is a pigsty
And if you don’t know this
Then what do you know?
Every second of my life I only live for you
And you can shoot me
And you can throw me off a train
I still maintain
I still maintain
Life, life is a pigsty
Life is a pigsty
And I’d been shifting gears all along my life
But I’m still the same underneath
This you surely knew
I can’t reach you
I can’t reach you
I can’t reach you anymore
Can you please stop time?
Can you stop the pain?
I feel too cold
And now I feel too warm again
Can you stop this pain?
Can you stop this pain?
Even now in the final hour of my life
I’m falling in love again
Again
Even now in the final hour of my life
I’m falling in love again
Again
Again
Again
I’m falling in love again
Again
Again
Again

____________________________
"Humming Rheingold
We scavenge up our clothes"
____________________________

Thanks Ant. I'm not saying they're all bad. But compare most with lyrics he was writing 20-25 years ago and they don't stand up in my opinion.

morissey is like sham 69 !!!! please elucidate.....i am not a fan but even i would not compare him to that useless c@nt jimmy pursey. when they started playing the bottom of the bill at punk gigs i knew it was all over.

Are you currently overdosing on Moz records, Doctor?
Some of Bowie's work might require good attention in order to comprehend but that doesn't make it less socially relevant. Like you, I love both.

He's also got many simple and beautiful lines:

"And all the fat-skinny people, and all the tall-short people
All the nobody people, and all the somebody people
I never thought I’d need so many people"

I love how a tune about having five years left to "cry in" can sound initially so subdued!

Think about Bowie in terms of image too. The most obvious example to show you how socially relevant Bowie is - think of what he did by playing Ziggy. You could argue that he showed gender up for the construction that it is! That's just one simple example.

I'd add Vauxhall & I and Your Arsenal to Sweety's list.

I think 1994's Vauxhall & I contained some of his best lyrics ever.

So who really killed pop with their genius? Or did anyone?

Edit: Typical error.

"morissey is like sham 69 !!!! please elucidate.....i am not a fan but even i would not compare him to that useless c@nt jimmy pursey...."

From Q magazine 1994
http://forums.morrissey-solo.com/archive/index.php/t-20310.html

Q: What do you do all day?

Morrissey: Isn't that a very Hello! question? Nothing that would interest you. Sit and listen to The Angelic Upstarts. Whom I've now mentioned for the third time.

Q: What is this with The Angelic Upstarts? Weren't The Smiths supposed to be the reaction of beauty and charm after the snarling negativity of punk?

Morrissey:Yes, they were beauty and charm but if you listen to songs like Sweet And Tender Hooligan... well, I don't like The Smiths being categorised as folk music. It wasn't like that. The appearances were extremely, expressively violent. And I wouldn't have had it any other way. But if you study modern groups, those who gain press coverage and chart action, most of them aren't actually as good as The Angelic Upstarts, aren't as exciting as Sham 69. None of them are as good as Siouxsie And The Banshees at full pelt. That's not dusty nostalgia, that's fact. Most modern groups as far as I can see are Creedence Clearwater Revival. I long for a reactionary, political, almost racist group made up entirely of Asian musicians.


Found at this link:
http://www.morrissey-solo.com/articles/05/09/21/1627216.shtml

Morrissey writes foreword for book ‘Cockney Reject’

posted by davidt on Wednesday September 21 2005, @10:00AM

goinghome writes:
“Cockney Reject - The Jeff Turner Story” is just recently published. It’s the biograghy of Cockney Rejects vocalist Jeff 'Stinky' Turner. With, the sales blurb announces, a foreword by Morrissey.

The launch with the band was in Purfleet on 2nd September, and while there is an introduction to the book on the band’s website, it’s hardly Morrissey’s contribution. So it’d be great if anyone could put their hands on the book and report back on what the forward says.

Garry Bushell co-wrote the book. He pens columns for ‘The People’ and has produced a comprehensive history of the English ‘oi’ punk movement that Cockney Rejects represent, a movement maligned and misunderstood, with some parallels to Morrissey's story. A little summary goes like this: “Oi’s self-definition of ‘having a laugh and having a say’ got it right on the button. The laughs were ten a penny for Jack the Lads knocking back pints and pills and pulling at the pubs, rampaging at the football grounds and revelling in rebel rock’n’roll at the gigs. Oi reflected that, but it also cried out against the injustices weighed up against the young working class. In that sense Oi was a real voice from the backstreets, a megaphone for dead-end yobs. At its best it went beyond protest, and dreamed of a better life: social change; the kids united.”

I rest my case!

Watching the Cockney Rejects play after Morrissey at Meltdown -- it'd been a long time!

<<is a vile nasty queen. In the early 90's I came across Morrissey at parties. The connection being my b/f was a friend of his b/f. He was rude nasty and was an example of the repressed homosexual in the mode of Kenneth Williams. I actually feel sorry for him>>

2HB's post and I agreed with him.

I guess that's why you like me so much calling me more or less the same names lol.

You idiotic woman.

____________________________
"Humming Rheingold
We scavenge up our clothes"
____________________________

Are you a total idiot?!

My two replies on here have clearly been to James D and 7Low... so what's your hysteria all over? Haven't you worked out how to use this MB yet? Or maybe you think it's all about you?

No wonder you got banned...

some people I know break their necks and cannot afford to get them fixed~

__________________________
"Humming Herman's hermits,
we serve Ant an atomic wedgie"
____________________________

"morissey is like sham 69 !!!! please elucidate.....i am not a fan but even i would not compare him to that useless c@nt jimmy pursey...."
...From Q magazine 1994
most of them aren't actually as good as The Angelic Upstarts, aren't as exciting as Sham 69."

That's not suggesting any similarity between himself/The Smiths and Jimmy Pursey though is it? He's just saying he thinks they were more exciting than some of today's bands, which is a back handed compliment if ever there was one.

surely he was having a laugh....moz playing agent provocateur...like bowie (but not as smart) he loves to wind people up.

So you'd suggest wyn, that a certain amount of people 'got' what the majority didn't understand.
But that his tunes have somehow lost relevance since the 'star' factor has to a degree diminished.
It interesting about the 'English' press and the 'local-ness' coming up regarding Mo; it's sweet to hear loyalties of sorts expressed. With expressions of Mo's quintessential 'Englishness' is an underlying message of "Who else in the world would buy that."
~~~ I like a mo song or two, no biggie... I won't loose sleep worrying about if he's getting enough--- of the little money I have. But I grin at practically every song he sings.... (sometimes knuckles half in mouth suppressing physical chortle!) Well let's just say the northern boy like him turned in a big a success yeah?
Music that is relevant in my life. Hang the DJ!
The police say: to serve and protect,
but what they really mean is,
"get back to the ghetto"
"get back to the ghetto"
"the ghetto"
The ghetto......
"Get Back to,
the Ghetto!"

__________________________
"Humming Herman's hermits,
we serve Ant an atomic wedgie"
____________________________

Maybe, I understand nothing in music and modern art, but I'd like to see Morrissey's talant would be channelled to more positive way.

Tune All Chat Pirate Radio and request a song.

Hi Violet!
I'm just just passing (out) the time.
Good to see you. :_) :-^ :->


__________________________
"Humming Herman's hermits,
we serve Ant an atomic wedgie"
____________________________

Shirley, his last few albums do exactly that, no?

The bits by 2Hb dont surprise me , I think its exactly how you would imagine him , and in a way its a credit to his own self belief that he could make it in an industry were showing off is obligatory , lets face it all these icons are a bit odd , and would we want them any other way ?

I was watching that silly program on saturday night were Simon Cowell plays god to some little boring prick who craves fame , with no talent to warrant it , all these silly little pricks were beside themselves with excitment at having got past his idea of what the public might want to see , lets face it its gotta be better being dark and broody , miserable or artistic and musically talented , as are most of the real stars .

For being himself and saying what he likes. I bet other 'stars' that are all very nicety-nice in public aren't necessarily that way in private anyway. Most people that strive to get to the top (in whatever profession) have to be a certain way or they'd get nowhere.

At the end of the day, I buy Morrissey cds for the music... I think it's daft that people get all huffy because he's said stuff about db (after all, he probably loves db really).

<<For being himself and saying what he likes.>>

Interesting.

____________________________
"Humming Rheingold
We scavenge up our clothes"
____________________________

This thread is very complicated. For the record, I particularly like Morrissey, too. The Smiths and Morrissey's solo works are excellent. Not to mention Morrissey's great in concert.

He is great in concert... even though some sets can be quite short.

For the record!
Ahh, that would be nice (though hard to play in the Fortwo)
I don't even have one morrissey record; all are copied cds and a
cd-single or two. I've always depended on the kindnesses of strangers.

__________________________
"Humming Herman's hermits,
we serve Ant an atomic wedgie"
____________________________

What a surprise to find you posting 'nothing' yet again. You still haven't explained your hysterical behaviour above?

<<I think it's daft that people get all huffy because he's said stuff about db (after all, he probably loves db really).>>

You think so?


____________________________
"Humming Rheingold
We scavenge up our clothes"
____________________________

I think most of the people who have a go at Bowie are usually Bowie fans who may be a little digruntled at some of the changes he's done !You know everything was great and he started doing different stuff , that kind of thing . I mean Boy George used to have a pop now and again , but really he was a Bowie fanatic .
Unless of course you mention Elton , but I'd suspect he was just plain envious of Bowies good looks , ha ha probarbly fancied Bowie !

Mist.

Morrisey's comments re: 'having to worship at the church of db' do ring true. I'm sure others have said similar. Can't agree that all the best stuff was back in '72 I'd say 69-80.

-----------------------------------------------

did someone throw half a dozen fish fingers at Bowie during the Cosmic Dancer...? or was it a 'Dental Dam'



Tits and Explosions

Has any of the Morrissey fans read the fantastic The Wrong Boy by Willie Russell

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wrong-Boy-Willy-Russell/dp/0552996459/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224531918&sr=1-1

It is one of the best books I have ever read. Its not about Morrissey but about a boy who gets into such amazing and tragic situations who writes unsent letters to Morrissey.

Sort of like Kes crossed with Billy Elliot crossed with About A Boy.

You don't have to be a Morrissey fan of course.

It would make a fantastic film. One of the few books I would read again. Can't speak highly enough of it.

It's pretty sad some of the things this has been Morrissey has said about Bowie over the years. I guess he will say anything to attract attention.

Best Morrissey quotes over the years

"David Bowie should have died after making Low".

"David Bowie hasn't made a good album since the 70s"

"Now he gives people what he thinks will make them happy and they're yawning their heads off.

"And by doing that, he is not relevant. He was only relevant by accident."

"David Showie" and claiming that the veteran artist was simply a 'business'