Is it just me? So many big up this album but I just don't get it!
TBOS is superb as is the Lennie Kravitz guitar version.
Dead Against It - I enjoy and played the hologram CDS to death.
SWWM is a shadow of the Outside version.
And the rest of the album is..........well shite - akin to Turdnight!
3 decent tracks from an album is tres poor!
---------------------
Baal
I smile and go off waving
(Amiably) - for that's my way
Well I'm sorry but I just can't agree. I think it's all superb, except for Ian Fish, U.K. Heir (yes I know what it's an anagram of) which is a pointless overture/underture. But the rest of it is terrific. The version of Strangers When We Meet is different, yes, but it's still the same beautiful song.
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basically its bowie at his non commercial best.Probably in my top 5 of bowie albums.What was your first bowie purchase?'Never Let Me Down or 'Lets Dance'?
If you don't understand this album try the spice girls?
Mr.N
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Buddha is gorgeous
Sex and the Church is the wife's all-time fave Bowie track
South Horizon is amazing
The Mysteries is very haunting
Bleed like a Craze has a wonderful groove and brilliant cut-ups
Strangers is a classic
Dead Against It is one I always go back to
Untitled is excellent
Ian Fish is even more haunting than The Mysteries
All this album needed was a couple more tracks with Bowie singing (there's a great little section in the serial as Changez walks along the road which has all the potential for a great number) to be a proper classic.
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At the risk of sounding a purist David Bowie snob, those who really? can't see why BOS is so brilliant need to seriously evaluate why David Bowie became so famous in the first place.
David Bowie wasn't just about making catchy tunes or playing outlandish stage personas, he was about being individual, unique, pushing boundary's, and forcing people into the new and not always instantly like able etc.
BOS hits every mark from the creative process to the end result, it contains Bowie-ism at it's very best.
As a footnote it's an even more remarkable album when it's considered that it was made after he produced such utter tosh (album wise) during the 80's, plus he was starting to get on a bit in years. Also for those who are living in constant hope that Bowie might still yet produce a proper David Bowie album today? then BOS along with 1. Outside is living proof that he might just be able to do one should he so desire.
M.T.- I agree the 80's weren't bowie's most creative but would you label 'When The Wind Blows' 'Absolute Beginners'(Song) 'Scary Monsters' 'Lets Dance' 'The Serious Moonlight Tour' his 'LIve Aid' performance 'Cat People'(Film Version) 'Under Pressure' to name but a few absolute tosh aswell.
The 80's were about pay back time financially for bowie, and he proved with his nineties output that when so desired he can put out a classic or two?
newton
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<< M.T.- I agree the 80's weren't bowie's most creative but would you label 'When The Wind Blows' 'Absolute Beginners'(Song) 'Scary Monsters' 'Lets Dance' 'The Serious Moonlight Tour' his 'LIve Aid' performance 'Cat People'(Film Version) 'Under Pressure' to name but a few absolute tosh aswell.
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The 80's were about pay back time financially for bowie, and he proved with his nineties output that when so desired he can put out a classic or two?
newton >>
I always Exclude Scary Monsters because that was put out on the tail end of his 70's creativity and even though it was released in 1980 it's still kind of part of his 70's era, and it is of course a brilliant album. No! the start of the 80's tosh for me were let's Dance.
There were some parts of the 80's I liked and have time for, for instance the two tours which whilst not his best were very David Bowie for creativity. Baal was a project of much worth as well both from Bowie's acting and the songs contained within it. Live Aid was a total cringeworthy Bowie moment for me, Under Pressure works better for Queen fans, AB I liked as a film but not because of any Bowie involvement either his acting or songs. Cat People was okish but Bowie was over shadowed by GM's production of the time. When The Wind Blows, great film but again poor title track for me as a David Bowie fan.
Let's face it from the album and music view points David Bowie's 80's period was generally pretty dismal.
A) I continue to believe that "When the Wind Blows" is over dramatised tosh and have never regretted selling the collectors editions of the singles I bought back in the day. Probably the only Bowie song I really, REALLY can't listen to to this day. WHAT DOES IT MEAN? Why is it a great/good song? What does it say to YOU?
B) I don't get the Ian Fish, UK Heir track (mixed too low? can never hear it), but the rest of the album is a corker. Long standing faves are 1) South Horizon, 2) Sex and The Church 3) Untitled #1 but love everything else on it.
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I love When the Wind Blows. I think it captures the feel of the cold war and the effects it had on ordinary people like no other song of that era except perhaps Russians by Sting.
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BOS is a brilliant collection of ideas melded together and sounds like the album he should have done after SM in a better alternate reality. Its literally bursting with inventiveness and a lot of fun.
I'm sure this album was a positive influence that got Eno on board for the Outside project rather than the 'all over the place' BTWN or the other albums preceding it.
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"Buddha of Suburbia" Excellent,one of Bowie's best songs in a very long time.
"Sex and the Church" Skip this, it has a nice little riff and percussion, but doesn't go anywhere. Just the same riff again and again with some nauseating vocoder vocals
"South Horizon" Great piece of jazz with 2 distinct halves. Unfortunately, the drum machine sounded very dated at the time. A new version with live drumming (instead of the drum machine) would be brilliant. Seems a bit wrong to have a drum machine on a piece of jazz.
"The Mysteries" A very low key instrumental, often skipped.
"Bleed Like a Craze, Dad" Successful piece of experimentation, great vocals. A recycling of nearly the same bass-line that was on Red Money & Sister Midnight.
"Strangers When We Meet" Brilliant, zingy, well written, joyous vocals, without the melodrama of the remake. Absolutely adore the edited version of this.
"Dead Against It" Brilliant piece of electronica, one of his best.
"Untitled No. 1" Same for this, love the song, really well written and performed, I just wish it didn't have the diminuendo section where all the instruments are stripped away and then brought back in. A version with that edited out would be excellent.
"Ian Fish, U.K. Heir" So delicate that it's almost not there.
"Buddha of Suburbia" (featuring Lenny Kravitz on guitar) Excellent guitar from Kravitz, but I don't like the 'rock' treatment to the song, so I always just play the single version which has Kravitz without the 'rock'.
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The Mysteries - that one belongs in my Best of the Best Bowie collection, I love his instrumental pieces. I put it in the same league as Subterraneans. If heaven existed, I think this would be the background music. It just transports me to another place, a better place. I'll refrain from commenting anymore about it, or I'll just embarrass myself, I can be very sentimental about this one.
Untitled No. 1 - Another one of my all-time favorites. It's just perfection. Everything about it spells love and a very sophisticated sensuality. There's a shadow of Marc Bolan somewhere there too, which always melts me...
Ian Fish, U.K. Heir - Magnificent, another one to play in heaven. I can picture angels listening to this kind of thing. Sometimes I wonder what it would sound like if DB sang the Buddha's lyrics into it, tho. That would be a second version I'd love to hear...
*Songs I like, but don't listen very often*
Strangers When We Meet - This is just sweet. Someone who doesn't like this song lacks a heart atrium.
Buddha of Suburbia - It's a lovely song, good to hear, but not addictive.
Sex and The Church - classy, sophisticated. Me likes it.
South Horizon - could be a masterpiece, but I find the 2nd half was ruined by that pop percussion. It's a brave effort nonetheless.
Buddha of Suburbia (feat. Lenny Kravitz) - Nice, but I prefer the Kravitz-less version.
*What I don't like*
Bleed Like a Craze, Dad - Never hooked me. It's got something very early 90s to it, too much for my taste. Dated, that is. And too polished.
Dead Against It - It begins like the opening theme of a children's TV series. It gets a lot better when the vocals come in, but to get there I have to sit through that intro, which is kinda rare. I love the lyrics tho.
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The Mysteries - that one belongs in my Best of the Best Bowie collection, I love his instrumental pieces. I put it in the same league as Subterraneans. If heaven existed, I think this would be the background music. It just transports me to another place, a better place. I'll refrain from commenting anymore about it, or I'll just embarrass myself, I can be very sentimental about this one.
Untitled No. 1 - Another one of my all-time favorites. It's just perfection. Everything about it spells love and a very sophisticated sensuality. There's a shadow of Marc Bolan somewhere there too, which always melts me...
Ian Fish, U.K. Heir - Magnificent, another one to play in heaven. I can picture angels listening to this kind of thing. Sometimes I wonder what it would sound like if DB sang the Buddha's lyrics into it, tho. That would be a second version I'd love to hear..."
Now this the sort of conversation I had hoped to promote. Just flicked the disc in and hope to hear more than I have ever done so before.
---------------------
Baal
I smile and go off waving
(Amiably) - for that's my way
Posted about this recently in another thread so don't want to repeat myself. I'll keep this brief.
I first heard BOS in 2005 and up until April this year didn't appreciate it really. I did love the title track, SWWM and Dead Against It but didn't devote much time to the other tracks.
My highlights now would be Untitled No.1, Bleed Like a Craze, Dad and Sex and the Church. It's the one album that I'd urge someone who dismisses everything post-Scary Monsters to listen to. They obviously haven't heard this. Currently it is one of 'Bowie at his peak' albums for me. Hopefully there's more to come
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I have this in my Top 3 Bowie albums...constantly.
Im glad it was/is overlooked as part of his catalogue. Im convinced that before a note was recorded, that Bowie was told this album wouldn`t be pushed commercially, by the record company. Certainly with a `Hit Singles` compilation ready to go for the Christmas market.
With this in mind, im sure Bowie was freed up from the shackles of producing `hits`.
And the results produced a wonderful pot pourri of all the best elements of Bowie, the artist.
The sleevenotes to this album, written by Bowie, fully explain the process of making this album, and its influences. The end results giving the man the absolute confidence to go on to produce OUTSIDE & EARTHLING.
Whether people like those albums is irrelevant. The fact is, for an artist of his age,at that time, those 3 albums cemented his reputation as an innovator. It was proven not to have been youthful exhuberence that resulted in a flawless catalogue from 69-83. Here was an English Elvis who was STILL relevant within the music industry.
The Buddha Of Suburbia re-ignited the flame of creativity in the critics eyes, (tho those flames had never been extinguished to me)and they`ve pretty much stayed on his side ever since. Not out of sentimentality, like McCartney or Elton or Rod, but because there has always been substance to his work ever since.
This album was THAT important.
Dead Against It is crying out for a `live` rendition. The title track is great `pop` writing. Strangers was so good, he did it twice, and the instrumentals can hold their own in a room with those from LOW or "Heroes".
If you have it, but have never `GOT` it....give it a go, this bank holiday weekend
Dad n Son during our Bowie Pilgrimage a few years ago. Me doing guitar solo from the video. There were some builders behind me, and had to wait till they weren`t looking, before`throwing my shapes`
Love On.
Craig
This message has been edited by tonyday on May 24, 2009 1:26 PM
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I remember buying Buddha in a Virgin record store in Orlando while on vacation in Florida. I was unable to listen to it until we arrived at the beach later in the week. After quite a few drinks one night, i placed it in the CD player, sat on the beach and hit play. It was a trully magical moment. For a long time, i felt as if i was alone in my love for Buddha. No one ever really praised it and the reviews at the time were not that great. I loved it...and still do to this day. It was the begining of a magical, creative rebirth of Bowie.
'You start out wrinkled and you cry...you end up wrinkled and you die.'
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Well, I thought I can't keep on being a ney-sayer. So I took your advice Tony and gave it another spin:
"Buddha of Suburbia". Have always liked this. The pseudo-Cockney accent, with 2 vocals an octave apart. Bit of a Bowie trademark. Very 80s with the sax (reminiscent of Absolute Beginners) and I love the references to other Bowie songs...zane, zane, zane.....and teh Space Oddity riff! A superb song.
"Sex and the Church". Now this is bollox!
"South Horizon". Now then this falls in the BMTDK category for me. I adore jazz musicians as most of them are fantastic musicians but I do not like jazz. When I first heard Reality, I thought BMTDK was utter tosh but 6 months later it was a firm favourite. Not a fav track of mine but some lovely piano that just may find me coming back for more.
"The Mysteries". I am a lover of most of Bowie's instrumentals. So when the wife was out, I whacked this on at full volume and loved the reverberating sound. Didn't quite go where I had hopes (so reminiscnet of Sunday on Heathen that stops atthe point you think it has just started!) but nice little ambient number, which got me reaching for my Brian Eno later in the afternoon. Would have been better at about 4 mins long.
"Bleed Like a Craze, Dad". Now this was a jack in the box for me. Don't agree that the bass line is a near-recycling of the same bass-line that was on Red Money & Sister Midnight but I know where you are coming from. The vocals remind me of another Bowie song but I can't think of what!
"Strangers When We Meet". A cracking song but my problem is that I heard Oustide version before this one!
"Dead Against It". First heard on the hologram CD single (took me a while to find the album on CD) and I I love the calm relaxed vocal against a frenetic rhythm, the beginning of drum'n'bass methinks!
"Untitled No. 1". SOunds like a BTWN track - The Wedding Song but I liked it after 2 or 3 listens. I agree about the section where all the instruments are stripped away - the track is just too long!
"Ian Fish, U.K. Heir". A bit disappointing.
"Buddha of Suburbia" (featuring Lenny Kravitz on guitar). Most excellent dude! I prefer the original - as a guitar player I love a bit of air guitar dude, this seeemed a bit too improvised for a studio mix.
In summary, this will never be in my Top 3 but has moved well up my Bowie Top 30 albums. I enjoyed listening to what seemed like a new Bowie album (as I had never really given it the time of day). So thanks Tony and others for your thoughts. I am sure I shall give this much more airplay in the future,
---------------------
Baal
I smile and go off waving
(Amiably) - for that's my way
I think it's as much of a work of audio art as anything else The Gentleman ever did, and deserves to be a Bowie Classic. standouts are Untitled No. 1, the title tune, Sex and the Church, and Bleed like a Craze Dad. I think it was a crying sin it was overlooked when it was first released
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I got THBOS in 96 i had a hell of a time trying to find it in the record shops. i liked a lot more than black tie white noise. Shame David didn't do any THBOS songs live other than Strangers.
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Tony, excellent story! I didn't know that Bowie was in Bromley, filming a video in St Matthew's Drive. I was absolutely gutted that he was so close & I didn't know at the time. If only we had the internet in '93!
Back in '93 I was a massive fan and bought anything and everything with his name on as I had bought all his albums between 90-92 as they were reissued by EMI & Ryko, so everything was still fresh.
I know St Matthew's Drive as it's opposite my Father In Law's church, towards Chislehurst. The Cul De Sac is kinda freaky as it's all bungalows so it feel like you're in Edward Scissorhands.
Richielle, who occasionally posts here used the location for a photo-shoot which can now be found on the GETTY website. When she was there the bungalow owners kept on mentioning that David Bowie shot a video there.
Baal, good point about the double octave vocal on the title track, it's a Bowie trademark!
I worked out nearly all the chords and notes for Buddha and it has a few sections very reminiscent of The Bewlay Brothers
D- Living in lies by the
Em - railway line,
A - pushing the hair from my
D - eyes.
D- Elvis is English and
Em- climbs the hills,
A - can't tell the bullshit from the
D - lies.
D - Screaming along in South
Em - London,
A - vicious but ready to
D- learn.
D - Sometimes I fear that the
Em- whole world is queer,
A - sometimes but always in
Bm - vain.
A# - So I'll wait until we're
Bm - sane.
A# - Wait until we're blessed and all the
Bm - same.
A# -- Full of blood, loving life and
Bm - all it's got to give
A# Englishmen going in-
G -sane.
G- Down on my knees in suburbia, down on myself in every
A - way.
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Yeah, knowing the video was shot in Bromley, id oft wondered why he didnt get all parochial and film it on Plaistow Grove.
But seeing St Matthews Drive, i can see why. As you know, to get to it, if i remember rightly, you come off a main road, and down a stony dirt tracky kinda road, before taking a left onto St Matthews, so theres plenty of room for production crews, and its out of the way, enough, to keep prying eyes (and fans) away
Have to say, the few times ive been to Bromley n Beckenham, ive found it a lovely area.
Given a choice of living in Bowie`s Berlin, LA, Switzerland, New York, id always choose Beckenham 69
Love On.
Craig
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That you should refer to me as a dick head shouts of your tendancy to write and not realize what you are saying. I know your comment was not saying (or aimed at saying) anything as regards that all db fans should be the same, but it read like you did. Please do not take it that I wrote what I did, with any malice or intent to argue. It was no personal attack on you, but I apologize that it was taken this way.
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It is an unfortunate reality, that I feel I may be awaiting forever for yours. A tosser I would not argue with for I am such, but a dick head I am not.
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Dearest BillB.
Im sure no context is needed. As Bowie explained in his sleevenotes, the music you hear in the tv series bears no resemblence to the finished album.
In the series, there may be a 5 - 10 second stretch of music, which Bowie expanded upon, to make them into the full pieces on the album.
I too, have neither seen the series or read the book. I will certainly watch the series one day, but i can listen to the album with no context needed as of the tv series
Love On.
Craig
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Re: re;OK let's converse about TBOS and another re.
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May 25 2009, 8:34 PM
BillB For sure, these sleeve notes saved me from fretting about needing to read the book or watch the show. Now you have no need to fret, also, i suggest you dim the lights, put slippers on, something nice to drink, and allow yourself to be enveloped within this lovely piece of work
Love On.
Craig
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![[linked image]](http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h293/trevorhalvo/DavidBowieMothership.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/416RZKZSE3L._SL75_SS50_.jpg)
![[linked image]](http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd279/doctoroctopussy/Dali.jpg)
It does sound quite beautiful, I think I've been a little impatient with it.
![[linked image]](http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b281/tonyday/DadnDavidStMatthewsDrive.jpg)
