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miscellaneous do-it-yourselfers and any other mechanically enlightened gadget junkie that enjoys working on paintball equipment.
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for your Tinkering pleasure in both the Frequently-Asked Tinker's (FAT) and the Rat's Nest.

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Soldering Statoin - Advantages.

So I've been contemplating between a soldering station or just a run of the mill soldering iron.

What are the pros of getting a station? I'm okay with the investment. I figure it will help down the road.
Temperature control will probably help keep a stable running temperature and prevent me from burning the solder.

I am pretty rookie and starting out. I plan to do basic kits, repairs, wiring and eventually more complex things.

However, I have some projects right now that I want to do. I have a headphone amp that I want to replace the capacitors on and it seems pretty basic. desolder, remove, attach new caps, and solder.

Thanks for all your help guys

.
Heck, I may have reasked this sometime ago but forgotten now and can't find it. (I could dig through the email notifications..)
So thank you very much for those that have already helped me answer this question or have provided similar info.

Austin J

Posted on May 25, 2012, 9:02 AM

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Smokin' the solder...

by Junk Box 99

Sounds like what you're after is something for the workbench, so I'm going to ignore butane soldering irons; those are best for field techs who may have to climb up a ladder to reach the thing they need to solder.

Station
Pros
+ Flexibility. Many offer temperature adjustment over a fairly wide range.
+ Stability
+ Durability
Cons
- Expense
- Availability of repair/replacement parts
- Size (Better for a permanent work bench)

Iron
Pros
+ Simple
+ Cheap (comparatively)
+ Lightweight/compact (great toolbox items)
Cons
- Beware the ones that are too cheap!
- Unregulated (beyond the limits of the heating element)
- Many have ungrounded tips

Caveats on both:
Proprietary parts. Manufacturers frequently do something a little weird with their stuff (i.e. make the tips different sizes or shapes) specifically so their parts won't work with anyone else's parts. This can cause problems when something on your solder station breaks.

Comments:
* Weller (Cooper Tools) has been the "Cadillac" of soldering equipement for a long time - good quality, but expensive.
* Other names out there include Plato and Hakko, both of those would be worth a look.
* I recommend that you get several replacement tips when you get the iron/station. Most will come with a "general purpose" tip, but for fine PC board/component work, get the sharpest tips you can find.
* A seller worth their sales staff will be willing to order replacement parts. Ask before you buy.
* If you can't find a seller locally, the big on-line houses such as Allied, Digi-Key, and Mouser should have some good ones.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 9:30 AM

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something to consider...

newer weller plain-jane soldering irons have temperature control (but no temperature adjustment. They're pretty nice.

That said, I use the WESD-51 and it's excellent for the money. I would recommend a good station over a pencil if it's your only soldering tool. I also generally advise people to not cheap out on wattage. General purpose irons are often asked to solder 3 or 4 12g wires together in a big bundle or something similarly difficult, and a lot of power helps immensely.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 12:20 PM

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It's all about temperature control

by Hans

This is coming from a guy that does a lot of rework as a business, as opposed to a hobbiest, so my needs may be different than yours.

The biggest advantage of a soldering station is the temperature control. Wattage is good, but you need to be able to manage what temperature you're at. Too hot, you're burning the board. Too cool, and it takes way too long to heat a component, the heat soaks too much, and you roast it. Better stations have faster temperature recovery, meaning the temp stays constant when you start heating a component, as opposed to dipping down for a bit until it re-heats. Then you start looking at features such as ESD-safety, auto shutoff and goodies like that.

For basic stuff, the Weller WESD-51 is a good choice. I use an older Weller WTC series that's about 20 years old, and have never even needed to replace a tip on it. Though I am looking at saving up for a $2,000 JBC rework station.... but again, I do this as a business.

Now desoldering is a whole different beast. Just a component every now and then, you can get away with some wick, maybe a soldapult sucker if you're feeling fancy. When you're doing 120+ pins in a sitting, you need a dedicated desoldering system. Right now I use a Hakko 808, but it does get heavy after a while if you do a lot of work.

You can spend a fortune on soldering equipment. If you do it often, it can be worth it, but for a hobby you can easily go overboard. I haven't used one myself, but many folks recommend the Xytronic 8800 rework station. Stay away from The Ayoue brand you'll see on E-bay and Amazon. Cheap knockoffs of Hakko.

-Hans

Posted on May 25, 2012, 9:49 AM

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Re: It's all about temperature control

I have been looking at the Wellers with the digital temp control for quite a while and it seems to be the general consensus and also what my research has cropped up.

I think I will get some desolder braid and a desolder pump. They're relatively inexpensive.
If I were to grab a soldering iron for a toolbox. Any recommendations? How would I spot out cheap ones that will go bad on me or lead to hot irons.?

Thank you for the advice and knowledge.

Austin J

Posted on May 25, 2012, 10:14 AM

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RE: temp controlled stations

There is an important distinction between temperature variable stations and temperature controlled stations. You would assume that a nice looking station with a digital readout would have a thermal feedback loop, but you have to read the fine print.

There are two reasons I know of for having a station with a temperature controlled feedback loop IE a thermostat:

1: Useability: it doesn't cool down or heat up excessively while being used, so there is more protection against cold joints and frying things.

2: Reliability: some irons get really hot when not being used, and others will quickly cool down when soldering because they don't have enough power. If the tip gets too hot it decreases the lifespan of the iron plating, so your tip will last longer if there is thermal control.

If you want a good iron you need to look at the fine print, many of them claim temperature control but there is no feedback loop, just a power control so these two issues are not addressed.

I have heard great things about the Aoyue 936 and family, I plan to get one of these. The specs are very good, and it's very affordable. I don't need a digital readout, though it might help if you planned on using your iron for precision spot-heating.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 8:22 PM

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TWB 2012-05-25

by Junk Box 99

That punch line gave me a mental image of Jake in an 18th-century military uniform, except holding a marker instead of a musket, and a mask to go with a Pickelhaube...

Wait...

Dress the whole crew up in Bling of War with (safed and plugged) markers at port arms, Jake and Jinx reviewing the troops...

Dammit, where's my drawing tablet when I need it!?

Posted on May 25, 2012, 6:27 AM

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"What, no riding crop?"

by Carl Foxmarten

If she didn't want to know that, why'd she ask? =^.~=

Posted on May 25, 2012, 8:04 AM

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S.F.L.

by CTPatt

Standard Female Logic.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 11:10 AM

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Re: "What, no riding crop?"

by WolfFan

'Cause it's one thing if they get a riding crop with the uniform, and a whole other thing if they just get the riding crop. See further en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CSI-MelindaClarke.jpg>, 'cause Lady Heather is the first thing I thought of when I saw the strip.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 12:59 PM

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And I think that too many people arent getting the joke...

by Renegade_Azzy

Got your minds all in the gutter.

[linked image]

Posted on May 25, 2012, 2:01 PM

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The gutter IS the joke

by CTPatt

A riding crop as part of an ensemble can be a period costume piece.

A riding crop by itself is generally something kinky.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 2:44 PM

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Re: The gutter IS the joke

by WolfFan

Yep.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 7:04 PM

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Re: The gutter IS the joke

by Anon E. Mouse

That, or the crop is from when Jake or a family member used to horseback ride regularly and the joke's on Sandy. (and us)

Posted on May 26, 2012, 4:30 AM

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Ah, there we go...

by Junk Box 99

THAT's the kind of outfit I was looking for!

Posted on May 25, 2012, 4:48 PM

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Been done

by Robin Bobcat

We've seen a certain raccoon in the outfit mentioned, as part of a 'wrong way/right way/TWB way' strip.

Also, thought Jake was FemRoger for a moment. Lack of coloring matters.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 4:18 PM

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SpaceX: The Dragon is meeting the ISS!

by Ketira

They're in the middle of doing that as I'm typing this; but if you missed it, I'm sure it's on NASA's channel on YouTube. They're off the Coast of Australia for now, so they're in the dark. (You can see where the ISS is {must have Java enabled} by going to NASA's home page and clicking first on the "Station & Shuttle" button, then the "Sightings" button.)

If you want to see a live feed of NASA-TV, go to their YT channel.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 4:22 AM

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Snagged!

by Ketira

I get to watch all this on TV, thanks to BrightHouse Networks --and being on the Space Coast of FL. (You need the box to view it.) But as the tech on the ISS who operated the Canada arm said: "We have a Dragon by the tail!"

Now that it can be done, think of all the implications!

WOOHOO! GO ISS!

Posted on May 25, 2012, 5:59 AM

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Docked!

by Sleepydawg

Me too, Keitra, love the Bright House!

They got the thing swung around and docked to the node, it looks awesome sitting there.

Pretty impressive so far, they've knocked the ball out of the park with the rocket ops and orbital maneuvers. Unload/load should be a snap. Still got to do re-entry and splashdown. Keep up the good work, Space-X!

-Sleepy

Posted on May 25, 2012, 8:31 AM

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What kind of future to come?

by MephitMark

Now comes the question about what happens next? Does this mean more companies get into this? Will we see much more competion in space exploration and development?

The one BIG question that I have, how will this effect our economies (not just the USA but the worlds')?

Though I wonder how would things be today if Nixon had not canceled the Apollo program because of short-sighted polotics of the day. I do believe that a fair number of us would be living somewhere out there now, if just one piece of history had been different.

Kind of wonder how the Whiteboard would have look if Doc had his shop either on the moon or floating around some where?

Posted on May 25, 2012, 9:46 AM

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Re: What kind of future to come?

by CF

Hold the happiness. No one on this forum is ever going to space (unless someone here already has been up there). It's still expensive, and complicated -- the major chance is that instead of Corporations hitching a lift with Governments, Governments now have to hitch lifts with Corporations.

Watch flicks like _Blade Runner_, _Outland, or Alien -- that is what the future of space looks like. The only people going up are those who will be working for Corporate Masters.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 2:18 PM

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Fan service!

by TM

Had to happen eventually

Posted on May 24, 2012, 5:03 AM

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And now I need some brain bleach damnit. XD

by Nighthawke

I've a burning (and most likely will get burned) question tho.

Does The Doc have a Rubber Duckie for HIS bat? /flrrd

XD

Posted on May 24, 2012, 5:58 AM

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Everything better with rubber duckies.

by eighttailfox

Just be glad doc takes a bath instead of showering like the girls do.

Posted on May 24, 2012, 7:38 AM

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It's still funny, though....

by Ketira

... and the submarine was a nice touch. Touch�, DocN!

Posted on May 24, 2012, 7:47 AM

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Agreed - even Oceanography is better

by Junk Box 99

Seriously!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_Floatees

Posted on May 24, 2012, 6:56 PM

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You wimp. :P (n/t)

by Nohbody

.

Posted on May 24, 2012, 4:46 PM

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Re: Fan service!

Awwww. Missed opportunity, though--could have had a NYPD Blue moment with Doc's bare bear backside getting into or out of the tub.

Posted on May 24, 2012, 3:00 PM

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Me, I'm wondering...

by Nohbody

... if this means there will be no more of these strips, with the button ripped out.

Posted on May 24, 2012, 4:47 PM

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Well...

by Junk Box 99

I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the last of the button panic. Doc said he got two hundred and some odd replies to his request.

Hell, I went so far as to draw one strip myself - just wondering if Doc got my email with the picture!

Posted on May 24, 2012, 6:17 PM

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MY EYES!!!

anyone want to take bets that an upgraded version of the button will show up at some time? :P

Posted on May 24, 2012, 8:53 PM

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How not to fix a vertical mill

Ran across this at a friend's shop today:

[linked image]

Had to do a double-take.

The guy bought it that way, and has little or no history of it since the previous owner had passed away. But clearly at some point either the original motor died, or was 3-phase, and was replaced.

The replacement, we suspect, has oil cups, and so more or less has to be mounted horizontally, which leads to the necessity of the interesting right-angle drive.

However, now, speed changes in the original cone-pulley belts now requires two wrenches and several minutes. The "new" motor is also a whopping 3/4 HP- and somewhat open framed- so we might have to sort out a proper replacement.

Also note the homebrew fine-feed wheel. An interesting use of rings and long bolts, though unfortunately the fine feed still doesn't work.

Anybody ever hear of a "Round Tower" mill? It's Taiwanese (there's three nameplates that say so) and apparently a bolt-for-bolt clone of a Bridgeport.

Doc.

Posted on May 24, 2012, 3:53 AM

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That thing is scary!

Certainly wouldn't want a stray...anything to get caught in that belt rigging.

-Ten

Posted on May 24, 2012, 2:19 PM

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On the other hand...

by NZGene

Almost perfectly set up if you had to convert back to a transmission line drive! :O)

Posted on May 24, 2012, 3:45 PM

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Dayumn

by CTPatt

Looks like something you'd find on thereifixedit.com. o.0

Posted on May 25, 2012, 11:23 AM

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No repair is a bad repair as long as it serves its purpose!! (N/T)

by Squirlly

Notable Talent!

-Tim

Posted on May 25, 2012, 11:59 AM

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A tool gloat chance encounter

by Hans

I hope you guys don't mind, but I don't feel like dealing with uploading and typing all this stuff out twice.

Saw a guy dropping a pair of big ammo cans on the curb, stopped and grabbed them as quick as I could, and this happened......

http://www.siegecraft.us/the_siege_blog/blog/2012/05/tool-gloat.html

.....

And all I wanted was the cans! Actually, I have no need for most of this stuff right now.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 8:23 PM

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And he was throwing that OUT!?

by Deus Machina

I'd have been overjoyed at the ammo cans. Heck, I end up prancing every time I get a .30-cal for $8.

I've invented projects for myself because I've found a percent of that in the bargain bin!

Posted on May 24, 2012, 1:11 AM

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Yep, throwing it out.....

by Hans

I even asked to make sure it really was "trash", before I loaded it into my vehicle. Same as you, I would have been happy with just the ammo cans, much less the contents.

I really don't need any of it, and will probably sell most/all of it..... but damn, it's NOT garbage.

-Hans

Posted on May 24, 2012, 4:41 AM

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Cool Stuff...

Didn't know you were a reefer. Are you on any of the SW forums?

Posted on May 24, 2012, 5:49 AM

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I always dig old tools and tooling it has a story to tell....

by B

most times if not the former owners lovingly took care of their tools and used them hard.

Posted on May 24, 2012, 10:04 AM

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Nice Haul!

Looks like a lot of pretty good stuff. I'm about to graduate school as an aircraft mechanic (A&P Technician), and I recognize a lot of that stuff as what we use around the school, in fact, I'm in the market for some of it if you decide to sell.

Had to clarify though, those brass things aren't machine screw thread gauges, they're the centers of aviation style turnbuckles. They're used for setting the tension of the cables actuating the control surfaces (rudder, flaps, aileron, etc.) in small aircraft.

Here's a couple different kinds that we use for safety wire training here at the school.

[linked image]

Posted on May 24, 2012, 10:10 AM

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I do stand corrected....

Wasn't aware of that style turnbuckle, though once again it makes me wish I went for my A&P instead of a generic aviation operations degree.

Actually, as much as I'd like to keep it all, I have more tools than places to put them.... so pretty much all of it is up for sale except the ammo cans.

-Hans

Posted on May 24, 2012, 10:21 AM

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Re: I do stand corrected....

All else fails, store them in the ammo cans?

Posted on May 24, 2012, 3:05 PM

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Well...

The nature of the DIY community these days, it's likely most of YOUR stuff is going to get pitched out just like this by an ignorant family member.

That's why people maintain inventory lists with condition and value of things so that your loved ones can at least sell the stuff fairly. (stuff like tools, guns, cars, etc are usually what fills these lists)

-Ten

Posted on May 24, 2012, 2:23 PM

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Ancestor of paintball: dueling with wax bullets

by icouldbeahero

http://www.shorpy.com/node/12929

Sounds like fun.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 8:47 AM

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Heard of it being done with tinfoil balls as well

by Max

A guy I know told me that he and his buddies used to use balls of tinfoil and black powder guns to duel with or have gunfights with in the 60's. My friends and I used to buy toy guns and muzzle load bottle rockets into them. Either light and drop down the barrel or if they didn't fit just use the barrel to hold the stick. Point at friend and fire.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 5:10 PM

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So I finally broke down and bought my own CNC machine... now I need CAT 40 tooling...

by manike

So I finally gave in to my cravings and when a deal on a HAAS VF2 with 5 Axis Trunnion came up I went for it.

The concrete is being poured for it tomorrow and then the machine should be arriving some time next week.

It doesn't have any tooling though. I was wondering where the best place is to pick up new and used CAT 40 tooling. The machine has a 10,000 rpm spindle so I think that means I need balanced tooling. Any significant risks in buying used tooling?

In fact, here's the specs for those interested and familiar.

2004 Haas VF2 CNC Vertical Mill w/ 5th Axis Trunion

Specifications:
Travels:
X-Axis 30
Y-Axis 16
Z-Axis 20
Table Size 36 x 14
Max. Workpiece Weight 3,000 lbs.
Spindle Speed 10,000 RPM
Spindle Taper CAT 40
Spindle Motor 20 HP
Tool Changer 24+1 Side Mount ATC
Max. Tool Diameter 3.5
Max. Tool Length 9
Max. Tool Weight 12 lbs.
Tool Change Time 4.2 seconds
Chip to Chip Time 4.5 seconds
Rapid Traverse Rate 1000 IPM
Machine Dimensions (LxWxH) 88 x 82 x 104
Machine Weight 7,300 lbs.

Equipped With:

Geared Head
Programmable Coolant
5 Axis Trunion (HRT-160)
16 MB Memory Upgrade
4th / 5th Axis Brushless
Chip Auger
Floppy
High Speed Machining
Macros
Visual Quick Code
Remote Jog Handle (7 Axis)
Rigid Tapping
Spindle Orientation
Tool Holder Tray
Tool Holder Vice
Approx. 4,000 Cut hours

[linked image]

Posted on May 22, 2012, 11:58 AM

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To be a proper Tool Gloat, you need to disclose the approximate amount paid NT

by Someone

Nice Toy

Posted on May 22, 2012, 12:40 PM

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Not gloating about this one so much...

by manike

It was a big chunk of change that was hard to swallow, but my Wife was ok with it, and the risks involved, so we shall see.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 7:25 AM

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And fix the picture links so I can drool

by Someone else

over something besides a red x

Posted on May 22, 2012, 2:10 PM

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Not sure why the photo's weren't working...

by manike

They were for me. Maybe because they were attachments on my www.simonized.com forum? Anyway I uploaded them to photobucket so let's see if this works...

[linked image]

Posted on May 23, 2012, 7:24 AM

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OOOH! You opted for the tree chipper/shredder accessory!

hehe

Posted on May 23, 2012, 7:56 AM

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Let me guess...

It has an augur screw to eject all the Swarf up and out and into a craftily placed barrel? While allowing all the coolant to drain out first, naturally...

Just have to make sure you don't mix the iron swarf with the aluminum swarf. And for gods sake don't mix them and then drop in a lit road flare.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 9:15 AM

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At least not without filming it and putting it on youtube! (n/t)

Neat! Thermite!

Posted on May 23, 2012, 12:57 PM

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yup, that's what it's for...

they're a pain in the ass a lot of the time, though. Great when they're working, not so great when they're just ejecting swarf/coolant mixture onto the floor.

Sometimes I prefer just scooping chips out of an enclosure to dealing with a chip auger.

Conveyors are sweet though.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 5:16 PM

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funny you should mention that

by jkeyser14

Someone at Dye probably hates me right now. They do some defense/aerospace machine work and I had them make some very large parts for me. The weight of the aluminum stock would have started out at about 250 lbs and when finished weighed just a bit over 20 lbs.

They didn't realize the volume of swarf they would have to remove from the machine. Apparently they spent just as much time shoveling out the chips as they did running the cutter. Their repeat bid was 5x higher...

Posted on May 23, 2012, 8:00 PM

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If your still in South Jersey

You've been to Fazzio's right?

http://stores.ebay.com/Joseph-Fazzio-Incorporated

You have to know what your looking for, and where to look but that's the fun part.

There's also Cook Tool
http://www.cooktoolandmachine.com/

More specific to machine tooling, I haven't been there in a while.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 6:04 AM

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Yep still in South Jersey...

by manike

Now just down from the Barnsboro Inn.

Walking distance actually. Which isn't always a good thing...

I know Fazzio's well, but usually for material etc. Hadn't thought about them for tooling.

Thanks for the links.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 7:19 AM

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Yup

by BnS

I seem to be in there once a week for some odd thing or another.
Not liking the "new" section much...

I've seen Cat 40 strewn about in my searches for tooling but obviously haven't paid much attention as it won't fit my cheep atlas lathe and ENCO mill

Posted on May 23, 2012, 7:25 AM

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Ha, I lived in Central Jersey for a year...

by Gambit

...Didn't even figure to give a shout out to Guilders in the area.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 6:24 PM

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Mullin Machinery is in Aberdeen.

by HTRN

And I think he may have some in stock. Frankly your best bet for used Cat 40 tooling is going to be Ebay.

Parlec is fairly common in the industry as it's pretty good quality without the superpremium pricetag of say, Command Corporation. Lyndex falls into the same category, but I don't care for them as much.

Maritool is an import that is fairly popular amongst the small operations who are looking to save a buck, but I'm not sure about the quality. Another is Glacern Tools - I can't comment on the toolholders, but a few guys on the HSM board bought some of their Kurt clone vises and were pleased with the quality.

A word of advice! Try to buy as few different collet systems as possible, not just because of additional expense, but because A)you generally need less collets and B) you have more redundancy. Also I would only buy a single set(so you have a full range) and then buy multiples of the common sizes - you only wind up using a few sizes most of the time, like 3/8, 1/2", occasionally 5/8" and 3/4". ER-40 goes from 1" all the way down to 1/8" Occasionally you'll need smaller, both size of endmill and the size of the toolholder! So pick up a few when the opportunity strikes.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 6:34 AM

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Thanks (nt)

by manike

Thanks

Posted on May 23, 2012, 7:21 AM

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if you ever need any help...

by BigMatt-MadCustoms

Simon-

Drop me a line... madcustoms at yahoo dot com if you ever have any questions

I run a 2007 version of this machine on almost a daily basis.. Also had a brand new HAAS VM3 delivered yesterday and I have a new HAAS VM6 coming next month..

Sometimes it's nice to work for the Japaneese..they seem to have plenty of cash..

BigMatt
MadCustoms

Posted on May 23, 2012, 5:19 PM

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I appreciate the offer, thanks. (nt)

by manike

Nolo texto.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 11:37 AM

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suggestions and things to avoid.

by ydna

If you're looking for standard collet holders or solid-style endmill holders, I would recommend tooling from Accupro, Parlec, or Lyndex. I also know people that have bought Glacern holders which seem to be of decent quality for their price (budget price). I have two Glacern facemills and some of their drill chucks, which are of good quality given the price, but I haven't tried their toolholders myself.

DO NOT buy any tooling from kennametal or Technicks. The quality difference on cheaper tooling is so great that you will instantly hear it.

Let me know if you need anything, I've been working with Haas machines for 4 years and own one too. My dayjob is teaching people to use em.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 6:29 PM

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MSC was having a 30% off sale for the Memorial weekend...

by manike

So I took advantage of it.

I bought ER 32 and ER 16 collet chucks and collet sets. Should get me started. Then I will look for some used tooling in the auctions etc.

I know I want a boring bar, but damn they are expensive!

Posted on May 25, 2012, 11:38 AM

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Glacern holders and collets are pretty nice quality, especially for the price...

by paul

We bought a bunch of Glacern extended reach R8 ER-32 holders that were on sale at $29 a pop and a set of ER32 inch collets recently.

The finish on the parts is great, but the drawbar threads were really tight and not tapped deep enough, so some needed chasing with a 7/16-20 tap before they'd fully seat in the spindle of my work's BPT clone.

The collets are of good quality, too. Their surface finish is excellent and their TIR was less than the spec sheet claimed to boot.

Overall, they're great for the money and the customer service was good. I'd definitely consider buying from them again next time I need more holders. I've also had my eye on a pair of their premium 6" cnc vises, but haven't had the funds to order those yet.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 6:02 PM

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A real Panic Button!

I wonder what those folke really thought....

http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/316AzLYfAzw%26autoplay%3d1%26rel%3d0

Posted on May 22, 2012, 8:22 AM

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I wonder what the CREW really thought...

"Someone hit the button again! It's too early! We have to re-set the blood packs and reload blanks!"

Posted on May 22, 2012, 12:16 PM

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POH MAH YAD!!!

oh my god this is AWESOME!
THIS is AWESOME!

HA HA HA!

OH - Ilove it, I love it! HA HA!

me me me

IDN

Posted on May 22, 2012, 7:26 PM

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Button Panic #6: FZAP!

Roger is a pretty attractive girl... but the real joke is in the second panel. Guess falling for that delicious schmuck bait makes you a total tool.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 5:27 AM

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Hee hee hee...

by Robin Bobcat

Something similar to my sugguestion.

Wait, is that a metal plate on his skull?

Posted on May 22, 2012, 5:29 AM

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Re: Hee hee hee...

by Retromash

And wrenches and knives for bones.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 6:24 AM

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...but...but...

I think Doc did miss a semi-obvious joke.

...the chance to make Roger a "gearhead", with an extra-special plate.

Still and all, darn funny, as usual. :P

Posted on May 22, 2012, 8:08 AM

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love the details

and with pen and mobile phone, of course. Could not imagine Roger without!

If your tongue shows up on a x-ray like this, you might consider switching to decaf

Posted on May 22, 2012, 1:04 PM

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Hold on a second...

by DerrangedGadgeteer

Hay, this isn't El Goonish shive!!! hahaha, very funny though.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 5:43 AM

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V-5'd!!!

Heh, I may have thought the same thing. "DAMMIT TEDD!!"

(Ack, now there's a crossover I'm kind of glad probably won't happen. Tedd and Doc working on a project together? *shudder*)

Posted on May 22, 2012, 9:16 AM

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Re: Button Panic #6: FZAP!

by Anonymous Coward

*Guess falling for that delicious schmuck bait makes you a total tool.*
I guess the button was booby-trapped.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 6:05 AM

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Pun jar.

by jwhouk

Pay up.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 11:16 AM

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Too funny

by Fermented

Almost fanservicey...

Posted on May 22, 2012, 6:40 AM

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Boy is his wife gonna be surprised when he gets home... (n/t)

by Nohbody

.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 6:42 AM

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Vot Vife?

by Nighthawke

If he had any kind of relationship it probably didn't last beyond a week considering his occupation and occupational hazards.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 7:45 AM

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Re: Vot Vife?

by Nohbody

It may not be canon for TWB, but for the New Year's Day strip for 2009 (well, technically New Year's Eve of 2008, by the timestamp on the page), one of the "things you won't see on TWB" was Roger's home life, showing him with two kids and an off-screen wife responding to a question from him.

Even without that, though, while otherwise there's no evidence of a wife, I think "he'd drive any woman away" is a bit questionable.

Now *Doc*, on the other hand... :P

Posted on May 22, 2012, 8:16 AM

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Uh-oh what if...

Someone else had to have pressed this button before Roger to know to leave a warning.

Does that mean there was a girl Polar Bear in the shop for a time?

Posted on May 22, 2012, 7:20 AM

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Re: Uh-oh what if...

.....That could be very interesting to see, indeed. Possibly with Pirta and/or Sandy becoming annoyed, exasperated, and/or just plain disgusted by the 'self-examination and experimentation' methods..

Posted on May 22, 2012, 8:51 AM

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Re: Uh-oh what if...

by Tony Fox

Doc (off-screen): "Okay, Rog, we ready to measure standard up-and-down oscillation?"

Sandy: "Oh, for the love of... STOP PLAYING WITH THOSE!"

Posted on May 22, 2012, 3:02 PM

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Please, please, PLEASE! make this canon to the plot...

by Snowtroll

Just because...

Posted on May 22, 2012, 9:03 AM

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The irony alone would be hilarious...

But how to make it canon?

Hmmm...

Doc: "Mr. Veeres, your gun isn't ready yet. The trigger assembly is still too loose..."

Posted on May 22, 2012, 12:12 PM

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Make it cannon?

by Junk Box 99

Doc can make anything into a cannon. Just need a large reinforced steel pipe for a barrel, black powder or cordite and wait a minute... you said canon with one N. Never mind.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 4:55 AM

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As long as he doesn't make it canoe...

by Snowtroll

I really hate the things.

Or rather, the silly buggers who tries to cross fjords with them...

Please raise a paw anyone who knows a working 'self rescue' technique for after the thing has capsized in the middle of a fjord...
(I see them every year when I make the trip across to some islets about half a nautical mile out. Of course, I use a kayak and have lifepreserver, self-rescue equipment, flares, a cell-phone in a waterproof bag... )

Posted on May 23, 2012, 5:44 AM

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"Gannon" = "old school" [nt]

"Ganon"

Posted on May 23, 2012, 6:02 PM

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No, Gannon = Box Scraper Grader attachment on a tractor. Get It Right! NT

Need Tractor

Posted on May 23, 2012, 8:22 PM

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Gender Swap everyone

by WatchDragon

Just because it hasn't been done yet.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 10:41 AM

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Dan Shive would argue....

by jwhouk

...with you about that.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 11:26 AM

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Ellen wasn't shifted...

by Someone

Of course, she was a evil gem clone of Elliot just before, but that leaves a window open.

Also, Jeremy's original or current gender has never been disclosed.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 12:36 PM

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note .... to Doc

If you gender swap everyone, some should have no idea it has happened.
AND have at least one Character not notice any difference even when told, hehe.

naaaaaa.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 7:22 PM

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Zapped! :) love the tool joke...

by Algae

And Rogerette is FOXY!!!!!
..er, racooney?

Posted on May 22, 2012, 12:06 PM

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is it just me...

by Ishii

... or should a female roger be a permanent character?
there should be some gender equality in the madness making, and having a female as crazy as roger would be entertaining (not to mention rather attractive)

Posted on May 22, 2012, 8:27 PM

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But we already Have One! No Myth.

Kari Byron for the win, Alex! (We've already seen Jamie as a Walrus with a Beret, and Adam as a Ferret...)

Posted on May 23, 2012, 9:24 AM

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No Myth... Or Is It?

by Urban Werebear

We've also seen Roger as Jamie and Jinx as Adam...

[linked image]

Posted on May 24, 2012, 2:54 AM

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SpaceX: and we have liftoff!

by Ketira

NIce clear sky... not too cold.... and and it went up!

Could even see it from my place, once it cleared the trees.... nice little fireball. I should have recorded it, and didn't.... wasn't sure if it'd go up this time or not. Sonics - not much - came about seven minutes later, but that's normal for here. Had better views via NASA-TV!

Posted on May 21, 2012, 11:49 PM

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No one interested in Space anymore?

by Ketira

The liftoff was the beginning of this experiment...
...but it doesn't seem that you gearheads are interested in how Historic this liftoff was. While I wasn't there, I'm sure YouTube has the replay of the liftoff somewhere on its network.

sighs

Posted on May 22, 2012, 7:02 AM

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Geez...

by Phoenix

..some of us were asleep, or doing other things.

This is indeed a big plus. We'll see how everything goes from here. not just this mission, but turnaround times and costs to lift to orbit - that last being a huge factor in if this will end up being a "success" in the long term.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 8:06 AM

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Re: No one interested in Space anymore?

by Anonymous Coward

This isn't their first liftoff. Nothing really new here. Besides, with all the delays it's getting increasingly hard to pay attention.

Now, the docking is going to be interesting. But it isn't scheduled for today.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 9:44 AM

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Space... Space... Gotta get to Space! SPAAAACE!

by Junk Box 99

I can't watch videos from here at work, I'll check that out when I get home.
(I did watch NASA's live feed of the final Shuttle landing.

)

The SpaceX mission is certainly a first in a few respects, but not a first in others.

- Back in 1988, a company called E'Prime Aerospace launched a 14ft. sounding rocket to orbital height. Payloads included a hardware test from the rocket manufacturer (Thiokol) and some experiments from schools and universities. Thank them for helping define and clear the bureaucratic hurdles.

- The Civilian Space eXploration Team (CSXT) set an altitude record in 2004 - highest AMATEUR launch (i.e. not funded by a government or huge corporation) to about 77 miles, well beyond the recognized boundary of space.

- There's another group, Sugar Shot to Space, aiming to do the same kind of launch with a sugar-based propellant - a truly amateur rocket. CSXT used ammonium perchlorate, the same stuff used in the Shuttle's boosters; rocket candy is something a chemist can make in his spare time. (Note: Even if you're a chemist, *Don't Try This At Home.* Save it for the lab!)

Posted on May 22, 2012, 10:16 AM

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Okay - I sit corrected.

by Ketira

Yes, I'm a night Kitty, but I stayed up to watch that on NASA-TV.

For those of you who can't find it on YouTube for some reason, The Astronomy Pic of the Day has the video of the launch on their site. (Not sure how long that link will last, however.)

I also hope this is a success; it will boost the economy in the County - perhaps back to the days when the Shuttle engineers were here. Not only that, but I'd enjoy seeing more "nice little fireballs" (yes, that's how they look from Melbourne) go up into the sky.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 8:42 PM

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Re: No one interested in Space anymore?

by CF

Nope - because there's not a single sad f*** on here who's ever going to go there.

Really, the "big change" is this: Forty years ago, Corporations had to hitch a ride with the Government to reach orbit; now, it's the other way around. And since the only "voters" the Corps have to appease are Shareholders, instead of vagrants and welfies, the Corps can do the job quicker, faster, and cheaper.

However, this also means the Corps will be the ones who decide Who Goes To Space -- and do you seriously believe Tourism is viable? Getting to orbit is Expensive; and once up there, what can one do but float around for a bit? There's no hotels, no theme parks -- no reason for tourists to go. (It's worse than the Texas Panhandle.

) So, the only people going up will be Laborers for the Corps; and they will be going up to work, not sightsee.

I suggest you sit down with movies like _Blade Runner_, _Outland_, _Alien_, and similar -- because that is what the Future Of Space Travel looks like.

And none of us are part of it.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 12:02 PM

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You're forgetting one thing.

by Ketira

Tourism is the number one industry here in Florida. If this works --and for now it's so far, so good --we'll have crowds around the launches again.

That means that:
(a) the hotels get booked up solid before the launches, which brings tax revenue into the county.
(b) All the little businesses along the beach also profit as they usually do when this sort of venture comes along = more tax dollars.
(c) If this happens in the Summer, those folks will want to get indoors, which means the shops & Malls will get more customers.

Maybe what you say is true. I still think that there will be tourists watching the Launches, and that's a win-win situation.

Posted on May 24, 2012, 8:20 AM

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Was this their first orbital shot?

by Hans

I know everbody was ripping over Spaceship1 being sub-orbital, but it was still a huge progression for civilian space programs.

Not sure if SpaceX ever did an orbital shot before. If so, and it's the first commercial one, that has potentially huge implications for the space program. Now, if there was a second company also doing it, we'd see some REAL Competition and advancement again.

-Hans

Posted on May 22, 2012, 8:51 AM

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Why have competion when there is government pay $^nth aamount?

by MephitMark

Not to rip NASA but in some regards NASA should be doing the research o the new technologies to get us there! But then why has not anyone taken over the shuttle into a private business? As fantastic a mechanical marvel the shuttle is, it was designed by committee. The DOD put some serious design requirements way back in the 1970's for one. And don't forget our dear congress had their collective fingers in the pot adding more pork to the whole design. So any business that wanted to buy the shuttle for a private venture, would also be getting all the associated businesses, friend and competitors. A good comparison would be if Ford bought the Saturn model from GMC. But the purchase included that the some of the parts were still made by GMC.

With the governments the 'only' game in town every one is a winner, and a loser. We all got something, just only by committee of the biggest lobbies.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 10:38 AM

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The Shuttle? A piece of junk!

by Snowtroll

Yes, really!

It's way overspecced, because the DoD wanted the ability to go into very high orbits(which they only did once, to place a satellite, I believe. Could probably have been done cheaper with a rocket) and even enter polar orbits?
(Not certain about that last)

Those demands required a larger fuel capacity, larger, heavier engines, a bigger and heavier shuttle in general.
It also resulted in them having to strap on the solid rocket boosters. Something that should NEVER be allowed on a passenger-carrying craft as they don't have a shutoff!

Did you know that the Russian 'copy' the Buran(Translation: Snowflake) could land by autopilot?
Something that was never possible with the NASA shuttles.

The shuttle is like an off-road version of an RV.
A big, fuel-guzzling monster with capabilities almost never needed.
It would have been cheaper to design a few special versions for those 'offbeat' missions and leave the shuttle as was supposed to be; an efficient (well, compared to the Saturn V) orbital transport.

Imagine a sleek passenger version without the enormous cargo hold, perfectly suited to ferry astronauts to and from orbit.
A 'Heavy lift' model with a cargo bay and a smaller crew compartment(pilot(s) and mission specialist)
A 'high orbit' model with smaller cargo bay and detatchable liquid-fuel motors...

It could have been beautiful...
AAARH!

Of course, that's my opinion.

Dons fireproof suit

Posted on May 22, 2012, 11:34 AM

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Budget, as always.

As far as I know the story, the main problem with the Shuttle were the post-Apollo budget cuts.

It's a recurring theme. There's always money to support the cludgy, unwieldly, expensive hacked-together stuff you build yesterday, but never enough money to build tomorrow's stuff right from the beginning. If in doubt, managers will usually opt for the "cheap" option.

If it weren't for this, both the Challenger and the Columbia crew would be still alive. First, because the reason for the two accidents would have been eliminated to begin with, and second, because the Shuttle would have had an escape pod.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 3:00 AM

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Competition is good...

by Urban Werebear

NASA had forty years of research time trying to make launches faster and cheaper without compromising safety. They failed miserably.

The failure is by no means the fault of the engineers, designers, mechanics, or researchers. The fault lies in the fact that NASA is a government agency and as such it is hogtied and hamstrung by the rules the government laid down to regulate their operations.

As far as privatizing the Shuttle goes, any company which bought a shuttle would have spent WAY more than it would be worth just updating the onboard systems. Better to start from scratch and design in state-of-the-art systems, preferably with a good deal of thought as to how to make it easy to upgrade later on.

Posted on May 23, 2012, 1:05 AM

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TWB 2012-05-21 : Yeeeaaa, you TAKE IT in the back side....

Seriously though, can we pretend that those two were actually running at say, 28 mile per hour on the speed ball course.
More - less? Considering their animal side, how fast should they be able to go, in the semi humanoid form?

Posted on May 21, 2012, 7:37 PM

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Work those legs!

by Latrans

Animals that are mostly humanoid would run in the same speed range as a human. This is largely due to a combined effect of the energy required to move the legs (humans have massively disproportional legs compared with most other animals) as well as the amount of ground a single stride can cover.

On the first point, consider that our legs work heavily on a pendulum effect. Very efficient for walking, but running is highly inefficient. On top of that, humans have very heavy legs compared to most other animals. They're built to hold us up, not push us forwards.

On the second point, compare a galloping animal to a running human. Compared to humans, the stride length to leg length is huge due to having a second set of legs to support weight while the first set is moving forward, translating into an extended distance. This is helped along in flexible animals (such as felids and canids) by being able to 'slinky' their body. Humans, on the other hand, are limited in the amount of time their single pair of legs may stay airborn, and, by extension, the distance they can travel in a single stride.

Posted on May 21, 2012, 11:08 PM

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Two vs. four...

As noted, a cat or dog, when running full-tilt, has a stride of pretty much their entire outstretched body length. A two legged type runs using a stride of only about two-thirds or so of their maximum leg travel, which is itself already significantly shorter than the body length of the larger cats.

Without the use of the full body length, we can presume that our ladies would only be able to run roughly the same as their human counterparts, though maybe a bit more given the extra length of an anthrompomorphic digitigrade foot.

In reality, the snow leopard is generally assumed to be a bit faster than the red fox. Both are given a running speed of around 40mph, but the leopard supposedly can hit 50 in short bursts. The lynx is a tad slower at around 35 mph, due to a shorter, stockier build.

In TWB, we'll assume this general idea holds- Pirta is somewhat faster than Sandy, who is in turn faster than Tawny.

Doc.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 3:33 AM

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Pirta's hits

by Nohbody

Looking closer at the strip, it looks like the one that didn't nail Pirta in the back tagged her on the gear hanging from her belt, not on her backside itself.

And on an unrelated note, why is Tawny's gun barrel smoking in the last frame? I'm not trying to second guess a guy who makes markers his business, it's just that it seems off to me.

(Of course, the last time I played was back in the 90s, and that with a rental pump.)

Posted on May 22, 2012, 2:54 AM

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Smoke...

The "smoke" in this case is a bit of artistic license, helping denote that yes, it was Tawny that shot Pirta. Considering what a mess last week was, it helps remind the reader what was happening.

Although, in reality, yes, given the right conditions a barrel can indeed "smoke". If it's somewhat humid out, the cool air of the shot can cause moisture to condense, forming visible vapor.

Here's a photo I scanned a while back, out of an old copy of Paintball Games International:

[linked image]

I scanned and posted it years ago, in an earlier Guild discussion on two-piece barrels. I showed it as evidence that, even though the tip portion of the barrel is larger than the ball, that some air was indeed forced out of the ports- which showed that there was at least some pressure still behind the ball as it travelled down the ported-and-overbored section.

Note the little wisps of vapor along the barrel- note also it's a pretty humid day, as the guy's goggles are also badly fogged.

Here's another from my ancient archives, taken at one of Sec7G's events back in... what, '96 or so?

[linked image]

Again, kind of a humid day, and you can see that the marker produces a small cloud of vapor as it fires.

Keeping in mind that, in comic time, it's still very early morning, so it's not unreasonable to assume it's still a bit cool and humid.

Doc.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 3:46 AM

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adiabatic expansion! (nt)

by icouldbeahero

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-B8loBvtC4IM/T7hh4DVuRHI/AAAAAAAAEyI/6LRsUB0yZKI/s800/DSC_2920s.jpg

Posted on May 22, 2012, 11:11 AM

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a perfectly good waste of a giant jawbreaker with a lathe

by namrepus221

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UoxJubwVYI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Posted on May 20, 2012, 10:44 PM

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Not Horrable

by Squirlly

But I watched it till my computer was finished downloading the whole thing then skiped ahead to the middle for 10 seconds then to the 3/4 mark for 10 seconds and then to the last minute.

Does anyone who puts that kind of thing out think we all have almost 14 minuets to just watch them make a project.

Two words.... Time Lapse

-Tim

Posted on May 21, 2012, 4:46 AM

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i didnt make it

by namrepus221

Thats a main complaint of the video on youtube that it is done in on continuious shot and no cuts.

But i didnt make it so i have no control over that.

Posted on May 21, 2012, 8:03 AM

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What is the feed and RPM for hard candy? (NT)

by Le_KiD_Qc

nombreux trous

Posted on May 21, 2012, 7:34 AM

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More curious about tool geometry (NT)

by Maker of Toys

Nom-able Turnings

Posted on May 21, 2012, 10:06 AM

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Been hanging here too long

by Steve

It took me a moment to SEE what the setup was, for some reason I was expecting a three jaw to be holding the candy. (wood lathe, whats that?)

Steve

Posted on May 21, 2012, 2:37 PM

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Awesome

and hay, i'll hold my mouth open while you make all the delicious chips!

wheeee!

Bwahahaha, I really need to do other things....

Posted on May 21, 2012, 7:32 PM

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Novel use of candy...

Anyone know what he sprayed it with at the end? I thought it was just water to "polish" it, but there was a distinct tint to it, and I don't think it'd stay that "wet looking" that long.

I'm assuming it's a display piece, and not intended to be eaten, so the spray could very well have been varnish/varathane or whatever as a protectant.

Doc.

Posted on May 22, 2012, 3:12 AM

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wasn't water

by namrepus221

I think it had to be some sort of clear coat. It was ment to be a shotglass so it would have to be something that would both protect the candy and alcohol from interacting with one another

Posted on May 23, 2012, 7:54 AM

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Doc, your toy arrive? N/T

by Armorer

Nacho Taco

Posted on May 19, 2012, 3:39 PM

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Need some help destroying a broken tap

by AdmiralSenn

Hey guys. I'm back again with another stupid shop problem.

I had to tap a hole in a cylinder head for a Heli-Coil (trust me, I'd have avoided it if I could have). Naturally the helicoil tap snapped off inside the head.

I've been slowly attacking the remnant inside the hole with a variety of tools. Including a tap extractor for this tap, which just bent and failed to budge the tap in any way.

I have already tried heating the tap up and then rapidly cooling it in hopes to shatter it, as well as sharp impacts with a strong punch.

My current angle of attack involves a carbide mill/drill and a carbide material removal bur, however these seem to be taking an inordinately long time to do much of anything. Part of that is my impatience (I've been sitting on this project for a month now) but surely it shouldn't take half an hour to get a 1/16" deep divot started?

Because of the nature of the vehicle and the shape of the motor, the only even remotely appropriate tool I can bring to bear on this is a Dremel with a flex shaft.

So far I've been using plenty of oil and going slow. Are there any recommended methods to this? Would going faster harden the steel more?

If I had the resources I'd just pull the head and take it to a professional to have it EDM'd, or just buy a new head, but neither is an option.

Thanks!

Posted on May 18, 2012, 12:40 PM

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Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

by Someone

Hahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahha.....

(Remembers 1990 Ford E250 with a broken exhaust manifold stud at the head, and six weeks of working through the wheel well off and on to get it out)

Hahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahaahahahha.

(Collapses, chokes, and passes out from laughing)

You are in soooooooo much trouble! BTDT

Posted on May 18, 2012, 1:03 PM

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Yeah, I know...

by AdmiralSenn

I've basically resigned myself to parking the car until I can find a decent condition cylinder head. Even if I somehow get the tap pieces out, I'm likely to destroy the aluminum around it (I've already dinged it in lots of alarming places).

Still, I have to try.

Posted on May 18, 2012, 1:25 PM

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Nitric Acid

by Nate

If you can get your hands on some (it's now a highly controlled substance), it will dissolve the steel significantly faster than the aluminum. It used to be sold in a formula called Tap-out, but the recent craze of tough guys who think they can compete in MMA has made tap-out a horribly ineffective search string on google.

Talk to local chemistry professors.

Posted on May 18, 2012, 11:10 PM

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Tap-X

by ta2maki

Found a similar product in a google search, but 60 bucks for a 4oz kit seems pretty steep.

http://www.chemical-supermarket.com/Tap-X-Broken-Tap-Removal-Kit-p574.html

Posted on May 18, 2012, 11:44 PM

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HOW? mucking fuch?

by Pilgrim

The last nitric acid I bought about three years ago,here in the most expensive country in the Western world,was $30.00 for 3.2 litres.

Posted on May 19, 2012, 10:35 PM

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Yeah... supply and demand

by Nate

When Nitric Acid is considered to have a primary use as an explosive oxidizer, supply gets pretty small, pretty fast. DHS makes everything complicated.

With a valid chemistry-based connection, it's cheap. Without, the only ways to get it are in these "miracle formulas" that cost an arm and a leg.

Posted on May 20, 2012, 9:51 PM

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Re: Yeah... supply and demand

Go the Mythbusters route, see if the local PD has a explosives person, and try talking to them to see if maybe you could get some of the stuff for supervised non-explosive use?

Posted on May 21, 2012, 8:19 AM

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I have a contact who owns a chemical supply house. I'll ask him on Monday. Thanks! nt

by AdmiralSenn

nt

Posted on May 19, 2012, 2:20 PM

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step 1 of anything I can offer is:

by Maker of Toys

. . . remove engine/head from vehicle.

seriously-- you need some room to work. A stiff carbide drill might get you some purchase on the problem, but unless you get enough access to the hole to get some pressure on the drill point, AND some way to hold everything rigid, you'll likely break or chip the carbide. If there was enough access room, you might manage this with a magnetic drill like Iron workers use. . . assuming an iron block. Depending on how things are laid out, you might be able to rig a hand-drill and some guides, but ACCESS, man, Access.

Another way, again pre-supposing a drill press or the like, is to use a stub of HSS and valve-grinding compound to wear through the offending tap. It takes the better part of an epoch, but it might be the closest thing to EDM that you can manage in the home shop. If you have the patience of St Peter, you might manage this with a hand drill. . . I wouldn't want to try it.

If you had access and the tooling, you could weld a stub of bolt to the tap and try to turn it out that way. BUT, if the entrance of the hole is buggered up with punch marks, weld-spatter, etc, you'll just bust the weld, and then you're that much farther behind the 8-ball.

Last option is to core-drill the offending place, then thread the resulting large hole and put a plug in, redrill and re-tap. But again, access and rigidity are key.

Posted on May 18, 2012, 2:42 PM

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If you can drill on it

by Bunker_o_matic

with decent pressure, I'd suggest a carbide left handed drill. In either case take pictures in between swearing and sweating at it so we can see what worked/didnt work for you?

Posted on May 18, 2012, 8:08 PM

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Likewise, it's a good idea to review a few of the online swearing dictionaries n/t

by Someone

You'll need to use all of the words you can find, in whatever language.

Posted on May 21, 2012, 7:55 AM

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Do you have a welder?

by jkeyser14

I've removed broken bolts (it should work for steel taps too) by placing a nut over the hole and welding the inside of the nut to the bolt. Then use a wrench on the nut to back it out. It's been a real life saver in the past.

Posted on May 19, 2012, 8:21 PM

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No, and it's broken off way inside the hole anyway. nt

by AdmiralSenn

Posted on May 20, 2012, 7:24 AM

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what about a similiar idea

but with putting something like Pratley's http://www.pratley.com/) on the end of the bolt?

I've seen them use Pratley's to suspend a bulldozer over the MD's office, so it should handle undoing a bolt.

Posted on May 20, 2012, 6:33 PM

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on that idea....

by ydna

It probably wouldn't work for this situation, but in other "broken tap" cases I've been known to hit the stub with an oxyfuel torch, to relief some of the hardness. You can then drill it out (or try to drill it out) if the random heat blast happened to affect the tap like you hope.

Posted on May 20, 2012, 7:10 PM

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Alternate Solution

This solution is a pain, but it will work, and it's cheap. Might take some effort though.

IF AND ONLY IF the head is aluminum, find a way to submerge it (or at least the part with the hole) in a boiling, super-saturated solution of Alum and water (grocery store >> with the spices). The alum solution will dissolve the steel tap and leave the aluminum intact.

A couple of challenges with this method:

1. The whole thing has to be hot, and stay hot. You have to sustain it at or close to boiling, or the reaction won't happen before your grandkids die of old age.

2. Affected area must be submerged, and some flushing will help speed it up. This will be difficult to do without removing the head, stripping everything off of it, and finding some kind of big aluminum soup-kitchen type pot.

Posted on May 21, 2012, 3:34 PM

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school sci exp with hot metal goes wrong..

http://www.break.com/index/science-experiment-blows-up-2327912
thee a few f bombs...

Posted on May 18, 2012, 9:37 AM

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Lucky bastards

by Nighthawke

It could have been worse, like someone being maimed by the molten material.

I think they forgot to preheat the mold in the process to eliminate any moisture in or on it, and the material popped as a result.

Besides, having a hot mold makes for cleaner results.

Posted on May 18, 2012, 2:29 PM

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Also...

by Snowtroll

They forgot to CLEAN the mold...
There's debris in it, and that stuff doesn't seem to like the heat, either.

and the extinguisher, is that Halon or a 'no-hal' system?
doesn't look like CO2, at least.
Not crtain what would be worse...
(Not an expert. Halon/No-hal systems doesn't cool down stuff, only replaces the oxygen. CO2 will cool the stuff, but is that really something you'd want to do when working with molten metals?)

Why the F! aren't they working on a properly fireproofed station?

Posted on May 18, 2012, 2:53 PM

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Glad to know I've picked up some knowledge here, first thought was flash boiling moisture.

by Brandon_ha

No text.

Posted on May 21, 2012, 7:10 PM

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Re: school sci exp with hot metal goes wrong..

by Sleepydawg

Looks like they did successfully cast some bars, look on the bench to the right of the mold. No idea what they were trying to actually cast.

The fire wouldn't go out because the red-hot crucible is sitting right on the work bench, you morons. There's so many things safety-wise wrong with this...

-Sleepy

Posted on May 19, 2012, 9:06 AM

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Uhh yea, everythings wrong here. [nt]

cream injected pastries.

Posted on May 20, 2012, 7:45 PM

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Question about the quality of a couple of tools.

by Lenmear

I've been browsing classifieds for power tools, biding my time and looking for good deals. The trouble is, I'm not up on the quality of some of these tools. Can I ask your opinions, if you're familiar with them.

The first is a Craftsman table saw: http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/tld/2971988987.html. It doesn't look like Craftsman makes this saw anymore, but, if any parts are missing, I can order them from Sears.

The second is a drill press by Central Machinery (owned by Harbor Freight): http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/tld/2997285449.html. Here is HF's page for this tool: http://www.harborfreight.com/5-speed-bench-drill-press-with-1-2-half-inch-keyless-chuck-44505.html

I have to run some errands, but will check back in a few hours. Thanks folks!

Posted on May 18, 2012, 8:26 AM

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404 from here

by Maker of Toys

BUT:

"owned by Horrible Fright" (----- Not a typo. Should tell you everything you need to know there. ) When new the fit and finish ranges from "meh" to "run away!" (And the benchtop ones are REALLY ANEMIC) I've been forced to use several of the HF drill press models. The experience has not been pleasant.

I'd sooner use a hand drill and a piece of angle iron as a guide than try to do any serious drilling with a Second hand Harbor Freight drill press that has likely been abused in various creative ways.

The Craftsman Saw? If it's pre-1980's it might be worth trying to fix. The 90's and 2000 era ones are OK when they're new, but I don't think I'd consider buying one that needed parts to be usable. There are better saws out there, but they will cost more even on craigslist.

Posted on May 18, 2012, 2:17 PM

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404 Fix

Just remove the "." at the end of the link so "html." becomes "html" when something 404's just look at the link :p

http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/tld/2971988987.html
http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/tld/2997285449.html

Posted on May 19, 2012, 9:47 AM

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Question on X-valve operation and O-rings.

by Deus Machina

Throwing a question around in a couple places, getting a couple different points of view.

I'm making a couple caps for Automag X-valves. They remove the on-board regulator to save weight and size, and make the usual tank-mounted or foregrip regs less redundant.

The X-valve has a vent in the side, for whatever useless reason, that needs blocked off. I made a pin that holds this in place and plugs the rear charging hole, and this ends up slowing the charge rate significantly.

The solution would be to either make a modified on/off assembly (basically converting it to a Classic valve), or the plug through so it can feed from the rear.

I just can't tell if the original regulator pin actually cuts off flow at any point. If I drill a 1/16" hole through to allow air to pass through this pin, would it hold the bolt forward, or does the bolt reset quickly enough that the pressure wouldn't have time to build? This method would save me a lot of trouble, and unfortunately the valve and my equipment won't allow me full-pressure tests.

As for the on/off assembly, I will need the O-ring's either way, and will have a tough time tracking them down. The outer one should be easy to measure, but the inner one is being a pain. I can tell it's .201" OD (IIRC), but I've always worked with O-rings by measurement, and not exactly sure what I should order.

I'd just order from a AGD part supplier, but I'd use enough of these a box from McMaster Carr would work better.

Posted on May 18, 2012, 4:17 AM

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Hey Doc

by S7G

Have you ever thought about writing Mtn Dew and seeing if they would help you out for all the free advertising you give them in the Whiteboard?

P-3

Posted on May 17, 2012, 2:56 PM

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Isn�t Mountain Dew the standard nerd drink?

I think its referenced allot, in other mediums, and they (owners of Mtn-Dw) wouldnt bother with TWB.
He should at least try them, even though the response will be, no response.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 7:46 PM

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blech ptui ick.

by tmk

MtnDew is f'ing NASTY. Its only real purpose is to be an oral HFCS/caffeine delivery system. I use less disgusting methods for caffeine, and have sworn off HFCS as much as I can contrive to.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 8:48 PM

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Agreed!

by Snowtroll

Personally, I import 'Black Black', a coffeine-rich chewing gum from Japan.

That stuff has helped me stay awake and 'alert' at more than one meeting...

Posted on May 17, 2012, 10:22 PM

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Even throwback dew?

by Assnolax

Between throwback dew and mexican coke you have all your soda bases covered and HFCS free.

Posted on May 18, 2012, 9:48 AM

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I don't like Dew, period.

by tmk

The Pepsi throwback, yes - more than half-addicted to that (when I can get it out here in the MOFN), but I've never liked Dew.

Posted on May 18, 2012, 7:18 PM

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Mtn Dew or Bawls are the two predomniate "nerd" drinks

Though different people have different tastes.

Posted on May 18, 2012, 7:17 AM

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I prefer "Spike Shooter"

by Der Alta

Orange Flavor.

The original is sickeningly sweet.

Posted on May 18, 2012, 9:36 AM

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As far as I know...

I've only ever seen mountain dew referenced on TWB and by Tyger of WebdogRadio.

-Ten

Posted on May 20, 2012, 7:25 PM

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There is that old audio/video that has DnD kids talking

about the horrors of DnD and one of them gets the D-master to allow a Char to carry M-dew.
Thats old as hell.

Posted on May 20, 2012, 7:58 PM

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The Dead Alewives

They did a sequel as well with a small reference to Dew. (The second one includes girls playing too!)

Posted on May 20, 2012, 10:36 PM

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The Dead Alewives

by Urban Werebear

"I- I- I'm attacking the darkness!"

"I am Galstaff, sorceror of light!"
"So how come you had to cast Magic Missile?"

The urge to quote the whole thing... Is EVIL! Evil, I say!

Posted on May 21, 2012, 7:14 AM

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so THATS who made it!

".../he is in the road, swinging a very un-magical sword/..."

That little quote was my favourite, its the fallow up to some Char testing his sword -

".../to see if it's *maaagical*/..."

Posted on May 21, 2012, 7:21 PM

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TWB 17/05

For some reason I am seeing Tuesdays (15/05) strip instead of todays.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 8:35 AM

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Errors...

Sorry about that... I tried reworking the strip order to better incorporate the button comics and I goofed a bit. On top of that, I just had my DSL service upgraded, and they goofed a bit, not only killing the signal entirely for most of a day, but then neglecting to tell me I needed a new modem too.

As it is, I'm still trying to get the router working, but we'll have that sorted shortly.

Doc.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 1:54 PM

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Speaking of errors and button panic...

Would be be okay to post fan art - in this case, a "fan strip" here on the forum?

This is my response to The Great Do Not Push This Button Event - and as far as I can tell it's really not out of character for Roger. The drawing is entirely my work. Doing it gave me a hell of a lot more appreciation for how much work goes into making A SINGLE STRIP!

Posted on May 17, 2012, 6:43 PM

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Sanding and buffing pigmented epoxy

by PowerPainter

A quick question, i sprayed black pigmented epoxy on to a surface. I'm such a newb i came out with runs and surface flaws. If i power sand with 240grit, then hand sand with 500grit, up to 1000 or greater. Will it buff back to a deep gloss with a power buffer and compounds?

Posted on May 16, 2012, 5:37 PM

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Is it Flat or Gloss? N/T

by Eric

Posted on May 16, 2012, 5:57 PM

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It is gloss after it's sprayed and cures NT

by PowerPainter

NT

Posted on May 16, 2012, 7:29 PM

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You should be able to sand it...

by Eric

If your resin or epoxy sets up with the same consistency as hard plastic you should be able to sand it back to a gloss.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 2:10 PM

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You can sand it out, BUT... Still got to re-spray it too

I'm betting that short of going through a dozen steps of sandpaper through 4000-grit, and then three or four grades of buffing compounds and as many new clean lambswool bonnets on a 7" angle grinder/buffer, and a hell of a lot of elbow grease, you aren't going to get back to a real and satisfyng gloss finish.

And worse, you're likely to wear through to the primer and/or base metal in at least a few spots, especially edges and corners...

Do it the way painters have fixed messed up finish coats from day one - Spot-sand out all the drips and runs and trash, and an overall sanding with the ultra-fiuine paper to give the existing surface a little "tooth" to hold paint. Clean it up real good...

Then give it a very controlled thin-as-you-can top coat of the epoxy paint, and this time don't let it run again, and rig a spray booth with filtered air to keep flies and crap out of the finish till it cures. That's the only sure-fire way to get your gloss back without excess work and time trying to repair what's there.

Wet-sand with Silicon Carbide paper, or you'll blow straight through. Go one grade finer than you think and try it first - better than too coarse and you've got a bigger mess.

Posted on May 18, 2012, 10:17 AM

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That's the problem I have

by PowerPainter

Everytime I respray it looks like trash

Posted on May 19, 2012, 4:01 PM

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Well, you must be doing something (or several somethings) wrong.

First thing, Read The (Friendly) Manual for the paint. No, really, study the label on the can, and if there's additional info on the Web go print it out. Don't just blow it off.

Build a paint booth like control for the application area - take a fan and a furnace filter to get a clean air source, then hang plastic to keep any falling dust away.

The gun has to be really clean - If you can't get the gun clean enough, go get a new gun. Sometimes they have vortices in the airflow that encourage the paint to clump into drops that create goobers in the end finish. Or it isn't shutting off completely.

When they tell you to strain the paint going into the gun, that means they know it has a history of creating clumps in the can, and that strainer is insurance.

Use a proper stroke, don't be afraid of wasting a little paint. You should NOT be pulling the trigger with the nozzle aimed at the workpiece, you squeeze aimed off into space at one end, then sweep across the surface being painted, and don't release your finger till you are in clean air on the other side. Goobers are formed and tossed when you're pulling the trigger and starting up the paint flow through the gun.

Posted on May 20, 2012, 7:39 AM

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Anybody looking for highly detailed maps

by BLT

The USGS (US Geological Survey) is having a sale on their maps, they are selling for a dollar each and seem to have pretty reasonable shipping too, here is a link to their store/sale
http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/catalog/setCurrentItem/(isQuery=yes&layout=7_1_95_62_2&uiarea=2&itemPageSize=50&page=8&next=seeItem&carea=%24ROOT&citem=00000000330000000097)/.do

so if you are looking for a map of your local hiking spots, there you go!

Posted on May 16, 2012, 7:09 AM

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And verily thy link saieth

by jwhouk

"404 Not Found
The requested resource does not exist."

Posted on May 17, 2012, 5:56 PM

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Worked for me...

by Snowtroll

Not that I could care less for the Alabama selection it pointed to, but...

Did you use the COMPLETE link?
Only part of the link is underlined here. Copy everything from the 'http' to the ending '.do' and paste into the address field of a new window.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 10:27 PM

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interesting but...

by troy

what a pain in the ass to find anything.. no browse, no good seach.. sux!

Posted on May 18, 2012, 6:57 AM

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try this link...

by BLT

http://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/b2c/start/(xcm=r3standardpitrex_prd)/.do

Posted on May 18, 2012, 8:23 PM

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TWB 2012-05-15 - PIE!

by Nighthawke

Yes, yes, I did email Doc suggesting pie, but I didn't realize that it was Sandy that was going to get it...

Oh well, that's what I get for making one worded suggestions. XD

Posted on May 16, 2012, 6:13 AM

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My response -NT-

by Latrans

Posted on May 16, 2012, 8:01 AM

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Reworked TWB...

If you read back the last week or so, you might have to refresh a couple of pages to see the correct strip.

I went back and put the original "Roger spots the button" strip (with the contest text snipped off) in, and renamed the button strips. That required a minor reorg and rename of a few of the on-the-field strips, so if you're not seeing Tawny jumping a beercan today, try reloading/refreshing. All the strips are the same, just a few are relabelled.

Doc.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 11:51 AM

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5/14-5/16 show the same strip (jumping beercan),

by tmk

and 5/15-5/17 show the same strip (pie in face).

I've refreshed, dumped web cache, dumped DNS cache, but it's still showing those strips on those dates.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 10:29 PM

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Same here. n/t

by Torinir

Posted on May 17, 2012, 2:51 AM

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Ditto here. -nt-

by Junk Box 99

This is the first time this week that I've checked TWB from this computer.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 3:03 AM

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What about this?

by Anon E. Mouse

http://the-whiteboard.com/autotwb1520.html

Posted on May 17, 2012, 4:12 AM

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beercan jump.

by tmk

...

Posted on May 17, 2012, 4:56 AM

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Odd...

by Kitkun

For the 14th through 17th, I get...
Beercan
Pie
Beercan
Pie

Posted on May 17, 2012, 6:37 AM

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That's what I meant.

by tmk

5/14 and 5/16 == Beercan, 5/15 and 5/17 == pie in face.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 5:59 PM

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ok ok, this is really too funny. For me - Think about

Think about as you are reading this on your computer, and a pie on a spring sproings into your face.
Were does it come from! - so funny.

its just, its just soo funny, Sandy, pie, Bwaahaahaa.
I cant stop laughing through out the day, I mean, its a stupid joke, but Sandy, "just" sitting there as usual. ha ha ha
ha ha ha.

Posted on May 20, 2012, 8:03 PM

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Roger, you are SO dead.

by Chris

Mess up a woman's hair/make-up/clothes...

Roger... did that falling soda machine affect your
logic THAT much to KEEP pushing that button?!

Roger... I think you'd better quit while you are
ahead... Better yet, quit while you still have
a head and a behind as well.

:-D

Posted on May 17, 2012, 4:03 AM

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On May 16th, 52 years ago...

by Nohbody

... the first functioning laser was fired at Hughes Research Laboratories, in Malibu, California, ancestor of the THEL used in the 2010 Zombie Apocalypse story arc.

Happy birthday, you wonderful coherent light beam of (potential) death.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 10:32 PM

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Just filled up the Cutlass today...

... at $4.759 per gallon.

Gotta love that Obamaconomy. What's gas cost in your neck of the woods?

Doc.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 6:09 PM

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$3.699 at the moment nt

by MarkT

Posted on May 15, 2012, 6:18 PM

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$4.38 for Diesel

by S7G

Price has gone up 17 cents in less then a week.

S7G

Posted on May 15, 2012, 6:36 PM

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Re: Just filled up the Cutlass today...

by Latrans

Phoenix, Arizona. I last filled up at $4.699.

And I hate to disagree, but I highly doubt that it's just Obama, or even remotely Obama that's driving gas prices. There are a large number of factors that lead to increased prices, not the least of which is our willingness to pay. This is the primary reason I've been using my motorcycle for 99% of all my driving anywhere.

Also, considering the absolute tailspin our economy was in just four years ago, we've turned around pretty well. Consider, also, that it isn't just the US. Europe's having an even worse time than we are. The fact that the US is doing comparatively well, especially considering how closely tied our economies are, says a lot for the efforts made by our current administration.

That's not to say that I'm 100% Obama supporter. There are a LOT of things I absolutely hate about our current administration, the economy just happens to not be one of them.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 6:58 PM

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D'oh... $3.699

by Latrans

That should have been $3.699, not $4.699.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 7:00 PM

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Economic tailspin...

Also, considering the absolute tailspin our economy was in just four years ago, we've turned around pretty well.

-No, we're not. The '80-'81 recession that Reagan inherited from Carter, was almost as bad, by percentage of GDP. However, after less than two years, the economy came roaring back, with spikes of 10% growth and averages of 7%.

The key here is how long it took to regain the status quo. As in, after a drop in production, GDP, employment, etc. how long did it take to get back to the peak before the recession started. And some four years after the recession "officially" ended, and after three years of the Obama administration, we haven't even gotten to that point yet.

After Reagan's recession bottomed out, we were back to the status quo and still accellerating just six months later. Right now, we've had at least four quarters of barely 2% growth, which really doesn't even keep up with the population growth.

Consider, also, that it isn't just the US. Europe's having an even worse time than we are. The fact that the US is doing comparatively well, especially considering how closely tied our economies are, says a lot for the efforts made by our current administration.

-What "efforts"? Additional quantitive easing which has devalued our dollar by about a third? (Which is itself in large part responsible for gas prices- when the dollar doesn't buy as much as it used to, things naturally cost more. And the Obama Administration has been printing money like there's no tomorrow in a desperate- and utterly stupid- attempt to shore up the economy.)

Seriously- what efforts have they made that actually did help the economy?

That's not to say that I'm 100% Obama supporter. There are a LOT of things I absolutely hate about our current administration, the economy just happens to not be one of them.

-The economy is literally the only thing that matters. Once we're back on our feet and enjoying steady growth again, then we can worry about gay marriage or "Fast & Furious" or how much Michelle paid for her shoes or what happened to all the money they threw at Solyndra or Lightsquared or Fisker.

Obama- and most of his administration- literally has no idea how the economy works. Everything they've tried has failed. The $800 billion stimulus that was supposed to keep unemployment under 8%? It hasn't been under 8% for three years. Quantitive Easing? As above- all it's done is barely shore up a house of cards, while badly devaluing the dollar. "Saving" GM? Yeah, with billions in taxpayer money they have yet to repay, and by closing several hundred privately-owned dealerships. Oh, and illegally bypassing federal law to stiff shareholders too, let's not forget.

I could care less what the man's opinion is on gays, or what his religion is, or who he picked for March Madness, or his wife's nagging us to eat broccoli while she scarfs down a double-cheeseburger, or how much money he makes, or how many autobiographies he's written. The only thing that matters right now is the economy. That's his single most important task right now, and he has no idea whatsoever what to do about it.

If he did, he would have. It's as simple as that. He's smart enough to know the economy is the anchor that will sink his chances for a second term, and if he could, he'd do anything to jump-start it. If he just knew how.

And don't tell me that "Bush's recession" was worse than anyone figured- so bad that even after three years, we still haven't started recovering in earnest. As above, Reagan's was nearly as bad- relative to GDP- yet three years into his administration, the economy was roaring.

If you want to insist that the economy was that bad, at this point- three years later, with zilch to show for it- you have to admit that he's either incompetent, or at best, simply too inexperienced to know what to do.

And it's not out of the question for him to be both.

Doc.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 8:56 PM

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One other thing...

The most common excuse for Obama on the economy is the fact that the President has no direct influence on the economy. He can't force a company to hire or expand, he can't- though he's actually trying- force people to buy any products, he can't set prices on goods, etc.

But if that's the case, why is it "Bush's Recession"? Why is it "the mess Bush left behind"? Why is it "Bush messed things up so badly that Obama's struggling to set things right"?

You can't have it both ways. Either the president can influence the economy, or he can't.

If Bush was able to manipulate things to screw it up, then Obama is able to manipulate things to help it. Meaning if you agree the recession was Bush's fault, then you agree that the lack of recovery after more than three years is Obama's fault.

Doc.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 9:29 PM

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A Couple Points...

by Latrans

First, I should correct myself. In my original post, I stated 'there's a lot of things I hate about our current administration'. That should have been 'our current President'. The administration, as a whole, just bugs the crap out of me... But, moving on.

I never said it was Bush's personal fault. I simply said 'the economic tailspin we were in four years ago'. While the President does have the greatest influence of any single person, it's not a one-pony show. That's as true now as it was four years ago. There is no one person who can be held fully accountable.

Building on that, a very large reason this economy isn't turning around as fast as it could is specifically because of people who are NOT the President. Look at the disastrous stalemates that have taken place in both the House and the Senate. And I don't mean disastrous for one side or the other. It's been a disgrace to both sides. The people running this country are clearly more concerned with their own political posturing than they ever will be with the economy. The stalemate over how to increase our debt ceiling proved that. If that *didn't* then the stalemate of the following "Supercommittee" certainly did. And it hasn't stopped there. Innumerable other stalemates have occurred over other issues, not just economic. People on both sides have gotten so tied up in their own chest beating that nothing positive is getting done.

As for GM, personally, I'd have let it fail. Would it have left a hole? Yes, but nature abhors a vacuum and that hole would have been filled. The short term may have been pretty terrible, yes, but in the long term it sends a very strong message that private entities are wholly responsible for their own well being. This fosters strong business practices which, in turn, fosters a strong economy. Can anyone honestly tell me the whole 'bailout' taught businesses anything other than 'If we get ourselves into trouble, the government will just throw tax money at the problem for us'?

Posted on May 15, 2012, 11:32 PM

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GM

by Sian

One thing, letting GM fail would have had one lasting effect. Manufacturing jobs that we lose tend to never come back. Over the last 5 decades or so we have been steadily de-industrializing in this country, farming out more and more of that to Asian and Eastern Europe where labor is cheap and regulations are loose.

Yes, some European and Asian companies are slightly filling in the gaps there, building stateside factories (cause labor here is cheaper than in Japan/Germany) but it's hardly enough to offset the loss of a manufacturing juggernaut like GM.

bailing out GM was about the least objectionable of Obama's economic policies.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 4:26 AM

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It would have killed Detroit

Killing GM would have just about killed a city that already has major finance problems.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 6:00 AM

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Re: It would have killed Detroit

by Retromash

Maybe it would have been better. Sometimes something must end before something new can begin.
Or maybe those unions should have stood up, taken the lead, opened their coffers and saved the city and the people who were so dependent on them.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 6:48 AM

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You seen that city?

by Renegade_Azzy

How much more can you kill a place that competing with North Korea for desolate? They got there by suckling at the teat of the unions and the government.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 8:13 AM

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not just detroit....the entire region

by ydna

This entire region of the country supplies the Big Three, not just shitty ole detroit. Even small shops like mine have done work for auto makers, and we're just a couple of guys out in a field somewhere.

When people think of detroit's manufacturing capabilities they tend to picture the bombed out inner city. That stuff is already gone, no businesses can fix that. The things that really matter are the surrounding businesses in the neighboring regions, and even other cities such as Lansing, Pontiac, Toledo, Flint, etc. Myself I'm in a city that's 200 miles away but it's still "detroit's manufacturing outskirts" for all intents and purposes.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 11:53 AM

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Heh...

by Kivuli

Can't deny Detroit and its environs are still important for the auto industry. However I'm currently driving an American brand car that was made in Brampton, Ontario and who's engine was built in Saltillo, Mexico.

We've ALREADY lost manufacturing. And to echo other statements, this administration ain't the ones to get it back.

Posted on May 21, 2012, 11:44 AM

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Not just the region - the entire auto industry..

by Anonymous Coward

Consider how much of what goes into the OEMs cars that isn't made by them - then consider that these suppliers don't supply one automaker, they supply all of them. If GM collapsed(it was unlikely - the most probable course would have be Chapter 7 and restructuring, but that would have political consequences - see below), it would have taken down all their suppliers as well. Then the likes of Toyota, Chrysler, Ford, etc are up shit creek because a large percentage of the companies that used to supply them with components are now out of business.

I will say that the "bailout" was a political maneuver of the first order - the current administration doesn't give a rat's ass about GM, what it does care about is all those Union votes, many of whom would have lost their jobs should GM have declared bankruptcy, and the chance the bankruptcy judge would allow them to null and void the union labor contracts. It would mean the very real possibility of GM finally shedding the UAW. Instead, we get the Anointed one violating law, stealing from shareholders, and giving undeserved ownership of the company to the unions. It's the old "never let a good crisis go to waste" gambit.

Posted on May 21, 2012, 3:37 PM

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A valid point...

And I was worried about that one, too.

It was my opinion that the gap left by a failed GM would be filled within a year by one of any number of methods. One, Ford (or possibly some European company) might have bought up some tooling and rights- preferably for pennies at a bankruptcy auction.

Ford could have started GM back up as a new division (as Lincoln and Mercury were once separate divisions) or even incorporated the cars as Fords. (Less likely, but possible- be interesting to see a Ford Corvette.

)

Or two, any surviving car maker (Ford, Toyota, etc.) would have to add capacity- buildings and workers- to take up the slack. I would have bet money that two-thirds to three-quarters of GM's laid-off employees (that didn't take some form of early retirement package) would have been back on the job making cars for someone else within a year.

That's the way that kind of thing works.

Doc.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 12:06 PM

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Just built a wind-powered car

by hp_lovecraft

I just read this news story, and thought of this thread.

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/05/16/chinese-farmer-invents-wind-powered-car

Nevermind the laws of thermodynamics... I can't wait until the day that the government forces everyone to stick large fans on there cars to reduce global warming! lol

Anyway, didn't Chrysler get a similar bailout in 1980? I do understand that sometimes companies are "too big to fail" but if you bail them out, you still need to punish them somehow. Bailing out GM, then giving it to the unions that were largely responsible for its problems..... well, now BOTH GM and the Government look corrupt.

Sometimes companies fail. Thats the nature of things.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 1:38 PM

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Chrysler

by Nohbody

In 1979 Chrysler received a loan that was backed by the government (not from the gov't, just insured by it), though offhand I forget who actually shelled out the money. Beyond the insurance, the government wasn't involved, and thanks to the sales of the K cars were able to pay the loan back ahead of schedule.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 4:25 AM

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The Chyrsler bailout

by S7G

Was due in a large part because they where such a huge part of NASA and the space program.They made a bunch of parts for them and if they went under it would have brought the space program to a halt at the time.

P-3

Posted on May 17, 2012, 11:02 AM

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Just wanted to add...

by Latrans

I know political topics are generally frowned upon here, and I honestly hadn't expected the response I got to my original post. Either way, thanks for the discussion. We may not agree on some issues, but at least we can be civil about it, and that says a lot for the community.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 8:00 PM

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drip drip drip/.

1.48/L. 1.61/L for 91 Octane.

Austin

Posted on May 16, 2012, 6:37 AM

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3.89 for midrange

We did have to call the cops a few days ago because we filled a 5 gallon can and the meter said we use 7 gallons. Weights and Measures got called as well. They really should have given us our money back.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 1:37 PM

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It's not Obama's fault.

by Webwolf

From an economics standpoint, as devoid of politics as I can make it:

Oil is a global economy. It responds to net global demand, not according to what any one country does. The US is conserving oil, but it's not helping because the demand for oil from China and India so far outstrips our decreased demand, it's not even funny. The Chinese auto market is now bigger than the US's now.

Oil drilled for at home, in the US, does not stay in the US. This is why "Drill Baby Drill" doesn't work. It goes out onto the global market, where it is bought and sold like all the rest of the oil coming out of the Middle East. After all, why would oil companies want to sell oil for anything less than the maximum price they can get for it, on the world market?

Oil companies aren't drilling in land they already own in America. The Department of the Interior found that 2/3rds of land leases to oil companies are laying unused, yet the oil companies are still grubbing for more land.

Last fillup was $4.579.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 7:06 PM

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Several clarifications...

I knew I shouldn't have put that part in there, but sometimes I can't resist a little jab.

Now then... (cracks knuckles)

Oil drilled for at home, in the US, does not stay in the US.

-True, to a small extent. While we do, in fact, export some oil to allies, the bulk of what we produce stays in the US. Also, most of what we export is refined product- IE, gasoline, diesel and aviation fuel. Meaning we supply the jobs and labor to refine it, and get a little extra profit from selling a finished product.

This is why "Drill Baby Drill" doesn't work.

-Horsesh*t. Oil has to come from somewhere. The current strategy when there's a crisis- like Iran threatening to close the Straits of Hormuz- is to ask the Saudis to increase production. Why is it preferable to have the Saudis increase production instead of us increasing our own production?

We currently import over 40% of the oil we use a day from Canada. If we could increase our own production by just 5%, that's 5% less that we'd have to import. It's not rocket science. "Drill, baby, Drill" is how we get oil. To say that "doesn't work" means you're trying to say that since we have a shortage of a product we get by drilling for it, that we shouldn't drill for it. Excuse me?

After all, why would oil companies want to sell oil for anything less than the maximum price they can get for it, on the world market?

-Because in many cases the oil companies producing the oil, also have to buy oil to refine. There's far more producers than refiners, after all.

Up until Obama blocked the Keystone XL line (again) we used to get a sweetheart deal on oil from Canada, with them selling to us at some 40% under market prices, since we were a guaranteed buyer. With Obama's rejection, the Canadian Government basically said that even just the idea that the US could say no, shows that they (the Canadians) need to diversify their market, so they're not beholden to one customer- who could, potentially, say no to a resource they've already invested billions on, under the assumption that we'd buy it.

That was a massive mistake on Obama's part. And it was all, one hundred percent Obama, not his administration, not his advisors, not one of his czars. That one mistake is going to cost us billions in the long run, and has had direct influence over gas prices in the short run.

Oil companies aren't drilling in land they already own in America.

-Of course not, because not all land contains oil. A lease might encompass hundreds of thousands of acres, but only one corner of it might have oil. That's why we have what's called exploration- the oil companies buy a lease, explore it, see if there's anything recoverable there. If there is, they drill. If there isn't, they don't. The oil companies don't get their money back for the lease, of course, and a lease might have a 20 year lifespan- whether or not they drill. So naturally enough, each oil company winds up owning the rights to drill millions of acres that have nothing worth drilling.

Doc.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 7:46 PM

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Re: Several clarifications...

by S7G

Oil companies aren't drilling in land they already own in America.

http://www.salon.com/2012/05/15/nd_becomes_nations_second_leading_oil_producer/

I wonder what if fueling all the new jobs in ND,WY and eastern MT then?

P-3

Posted on May 15, 2012, 8:23 PM

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Quoted: Updated Report to the President, May 2012

by Webwolf

Onshore: As of December 31, 2011, approximately 56 percent of total acres of
public land under lease in the Lower 48 States totaling approximately 20.7 million
acres - are not undergoing either production nor exploration activities.
*As of September 30, 2011, there are over 7,000 approved permits to drill on public
and Indian lands that have not yet been acted on by companies.*
Roughly 76 percent of the onshore acres offered for sale between October 1, 2010,
and September 30, 2011, were bid on and sold for oil and gas activities.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 2:10 PM

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Thank you!

wow you have no clue how many people I talk to have this same attitude, of Obama is god and hes done such wonderful things, and nothing is his fault, and we can do NOTHING to fix it

thank you for a well thought out answer!

btw Gas just dropped $0.20 here in the last 2 weeks, my wife filled up for $3.48 the other day!

Posted on May 16, 2012, 5:47 AM

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Just remember...

by Anonymous Coward

...four years ago, high gas prices were all the President's fault and he was just refusing to fix the problem because he was greedy, heartless, and/or stupid.
...ten years ago we were told that drilling for new oil sources wouldn't bring any new oil onto the market for... ten years.
...and in '08 we were told that for Barack Obama's energy and environmental policies to work, the cost of energy would "necessarily" have to "skyrocket".

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/2011/04/obama-promised-higher-energy-costs-he-wasnt-kidding/112638

What Obama didn't say to the man with 10 kids was what he said in a January 2008 interview with the San Francisco Chronicle: Under his administration, "electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket." And he said nothing about his energy secretary, Steven Chu, who told the Wall Street Journal that "somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe." At the time, gas was selling there for $10 a gallon

Posted on May 16, 2012, 10:44 AM

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Re: Several clarifications...

by Webwolf

*True, to a small extent. While we do, in fact, export some oil to allies, the bulk of what we produce stays in the US. Also, most of what we export is refined product- IE, gasoline, diesel and aviation fuel. Meaning we supply the jobs and labor to refine it, and get a little extra profit from selling a finished product.*

-Oil doesn't stop being oil, just because it's refined. Still goes out onto the market, where it gets sold, and its price is still tied to the price of a barrel of crude oil.

*Up until Obama blocked the Keystone XL line (again) we used to get a sweetheart deal on oil from Canada, with them selling to us at some 40% under market prices, since we were a guaranteed buyer. With Obama's rejection, the Canadian Government basically said that even just the idea that the US could say no, shows that they (the Canadians) need to diversify their market, so they're not beholden to one customer- who could, potentially, say no to a resource they've already invested billions on, under the assumption that we'd buy it.*

-And I'm fine with him doing that. Because if there's one fluid in this world that's more precious than oil, it's water.

As it turns out, because part of the Keystone XL pipeline cuts through the Ogallala Aquifer, and more importantly, through the Nebraska Sandhills, where the water is very close to the surface, under some very porous earth. The PREFERRED route by the administration would be to go AROUND the Sandhills, but still permitting them to go through the Aquifer itself. And why all of Transcanada is putting in a massive effort to legislatively f**k Nebraska, because it's not just the administration that doesn't want oil pipelines cutting through there, but the Nebraska State Government, too.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/20/1085063/-Revised-Keystone-XL-still-crosses-vital-Ogallala-Aquifer-Republicans-pressuring-Obama-to-give-OK

And I'm okay with that. (Shutting down Keystone, not f**king Nebraska. No jokes about women named Nebraska, now.) As much as I love oil for giving me refined products for turning and milling metal, giving me gasoline so I can get to work, school, and deliveries, I can't drink oil. I can eat Nebraska corn. I can drink water. And a bet a lot of you guys are the same way.

(At least it's not gotten egregious, yet. Some guy in Texas named Harold Simmons wants to house radioactive nuclear waste underground there, in land over the Aquifer, which limits how much waste he can store. A little campaign money to Rick Perry, and once 5 of 6 people on the state Water Development Board get replaced? Hey look! The aquifer.... MAGICALLY MOVED ITS BORDER AWAY FROM THE DUMP.)

*-Of course not, because not all land contains oil. A lease might encompass hundreds of thousands of acres, but only one corner of it might have oil. That's why we have what's called exploration- the oil companies buy a lease, explore it, see if there's anything recoverable there. If there is, they drill. If there isn't, they don't. The oil companies don't get their money back for the lease, of course, and a lease might have a 20 year lifespan- whether or not they drill. So naturally enough, each oil company winds up owning the rights to drill millions of acres that have nothing worth drilling.*

http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleases/loader.cfm?csModule=security/getfile&pageid=296238

/Onshore: As of December 31, 2011, approximately 56 percent of total acres of
public land under lease in the Lower 48 States totaling approximately 20.7 million
acres - are not undergoing either production nor exploration activities.
*As of September 30, 2011, there are over 7,000 approved permits to drill on public
and Indian lands that have not yet been acted on by companies.*
Roughly 76 percent of the onshore acres offered for sale between October 1, 2010,
and September 30, 2011, were bid on and sold for oil and gas activities./

The administration's stance on this is summed up as, "Damnit, we gave you these leases so you could drill, so get to it!" This plays into the larger point where:

*/This is why "Drill Baby Drill" doesn't work./ -Horsesh*t. Oil has to come from somewhere.*

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drill for oil.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 2:36 PM

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Clarifications of your clarifications...

First off, the Ogallala Aquifer already has a dozen pipelines in it and crossing it, to say nothing of tens of thousands of homes, septic tanks, gas stations, office buildings and so on. The Keystone pipeline itself already crosses it three or four times. (The XL line is essentially just an addition to that line.)

You've got more pipelines crossing that aquifer than we have crossing the Inlet- and there's over a dozen oil drilling platforms out there.

What makes the XL line so different from all the other ones that are already there?

Second off, your DOI quote doesn't in any way contradict what I said. Not all land has oil or recoverable oil- a lease might encompass tens of thousands of acres, but oil can only be reached from two or three of them. ANWR, for example, is over 19 million acres- 20% larger than the entire state of Virginia- and the area the oil companies wish to explore and/or drill is roughly the size of the parking lots at JFK International Airport.

Also, some of those permits are being held because there's oil, but they're waiting for technology to catch up- the recent improvements in fracking and recovering shale oils is a perfect example of that. Those lands have been in private hands for decades, but only recent improvements have allowed the oil to be recovered.

Further, oil exploration is horrendously expensive. The leases themselves already cost tens or hundreds of millions, and an average drilling rig costs anywhere from $100,000 to several million per day to operate. Exxon spends $33 billion a year just in operating costs. The companies naturally want to get the best return on their dollar- some of those leases contain oil, but as I noted, it might not be economically recoverable oil.

There's also a finite number of drilling rigs in the world, and a similarly finite number of skilled workers to operate them. If an oil company looks at two leases, and one is estimated to cost $20 billion and produce 1 billion barrels, and the other is estimated to cost $25 billion but only produce 500 million barrels- and they only have one drilling rig availble to be assigned to one of them- naturally they'll choose the one that is estimated to cost less and produce more.

Doc.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 3:20 PM

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Clarifications^3

by Algae

Ok, then maybe Exxon can use some of their record profits to build more drill rigs and train more workers?

Just sayin'!

Posted on May 17, 2012, 12:00 PM

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They would love to!

Just as soon as this Administration stops threatening to impose massive windfall profits taxes on those "record" profits.

And on that note, when Exxon makes something like a 3% profit margin per year, why is that so much worse than Google's 35%?

Doc.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 1:52 PM

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Exxon vs Google

by Shalom

Maybe because Exxon charges for their product, and Google supplies it free? I could care less about how much money Google makes, although I could kick myself for not buying the stock; but when Exxon (or whichever company) is showing record-breaking profits and still doubling the price of their product, people tend to get annoyed. In any case, I haven't bought any Exxon gas since the Valdez incident.

Incidentally, if you want to see examples of unconscionable price gouging, look at the drug manufacturers. Stuff that used to cost a few dollars is now several times that much. As an example, Albenza (drug for intestinal worms) that last year used to wholesale for $268.29 for 112 tablets now goes for $679.00 for 28 tablets. That's a tenfold increase ($2.39/tab to $24.25 per tab). Nystatin ointment has gone from a dollar a tube to 10-15 dollars. Colchicine, which has been on the market since 1882 (!) and used to cost pennies, is now $4.70 per tablet, etc.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 2:36 PM

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Wait, what?

Maybe because Exxon charges for their product, and Google supplies it free?

-Wait, what?

Then where do those profits come from? A PayPal tip jar?

No, Google charges- and a huge percentage, in fact- for ads, they license the Android OS, they own and get royalties for thousands of patents, etc. etc.

On the other hand, the product that the oil companies produce, under heavy scrutiny, and for which they make a lower pforit margin than Wal-Mart, literally fuels every single thing a person buys or consumes in a day. From the jet fuel for over 100,000 flights a day, to all the product and produce moved on container ships, to trucked via semi, to hauled by train. The coal you statistically likely consumed to get the electricity you're reading this with, was almost certainly shipped via diesel-electric train. The computer came from Asia on a cargo ship, and the can of soda sitting nearby (or bottle of water, or package of Twinkies, or whatever) was trucked to you from a distribution warehouse.

Yes, you have bought Exxon fuel. Many times. Even if you buy only from a competitor, they very commonly trade and transfer both crude and finished products, depending on who has capacity or storage to spare.

Doc.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 3:02 PM

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Not just a 3% profit.....

by Hans

But also around an effective 50% corporate income tax, IIRC.... and that's AFTER all their supposed "tax breaks".

So you can actually mark that down to around 1.5%

-Hans

Posted on May 17, 2012, 8:59 PM

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tankers are being turned back on the west coast....

by akpirate

....back to Valdez with partial loads.

Valdez oil tanks are near capacity.

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/refineries-full-tanker-sent-back-valdez-oil

Say what you want about Obama... CONGRESS has been the real culprit for many a things going wrong with the economy for longer than any one presidential administration.

Gas prices are high for one reason only ...its a US presidential election year. Watch gas prices flutter around the $4.00 mark for most of the year and plunge back down after the election just like what happened in '08

Posted on May 15, 2012, 9:29 PM

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..from this side of the pond..

Do you want to swap?

Filling my mondeo with diesel I'm paying roughtly $8.04 a US gallon.. or around $123 a tank, and I tend to use 2 tanks a week.

And this is after a price drop.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 9:34 PM

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A lot of that is self-inflicted, though

by Nohbody

Much of the higher price of petrol in Europe, compared to the US, is due not to supply issues or the price of oil, but government taxation, not all of which is purely for funding road maintenance.

(To be fair, fuel taxes in the US in general are supposed to be used for such, but often get diverted to politicians' pet projects, or even to the general fund. That, however, is a rant for another day. :P )

In the US taxes per liter (to compare apples to apples, given the US uses Imperial gallons for its pump measurements) is a miniscule percentage of the total price of gasoline at the pump, whereas taxes can make up to nearly 2/3rds of the total price in Europe.

[linked image]

(Mind you, the site that graph is taken from is using it as part of an argument to increase gas taxes to give governments more money to piss away. AFAICT the graph itself is fairly accurate, however.)

Posted on May 15, 2012, 10:06 PM

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I would sure like to see Europes transportation system here

by akpirate

Smooth well maintained roads, a solid public transit system, high speed rail, ectera. Fuel may be taxed high over there but it doesn't exactly go to waste. It subsides other modes of transportation that relives congestion on an urban population that is far more condensed than many comparable US counterparts.

(fuel) taxes are artificially low here in the US because there is a fair percent of highway funding that comes from revenue other than fuel taxes.

Just another reason why we can't have nice things here....

Posted on May 15, 2012, 10:25 PM

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Re: I would sure like to see Europes transportation system here

by Nohbody

As with many other "we should have the European way here" issues, comparing Europe to the US is more or less "apples and oranges". The US has states that are larger than some European countries, and I'm not comparing, say, Texas or Alaska to Montenegro. Hell, even in fairly dense cities in the US with a public transportation system, IIRC almost none of them are able to survive without heavy government subsidies. Out in "the sticks" or even in the suburbs, you might as well fuggedaboutit.

(Of course, to the "big city" elites, "fuggetaboutit" is pretty much what they think of the rubes and bumpkins whose numbers are generally trumped by big city populations. See Chicago vs the rest of Illinois or LA and San Fransisco compared to the rest of California.)

Posted on May 15, 2012, 10:52 PM

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USA vs. Europe...

Just for some quick numbers providing perspective, Germany is about the size of Montana, with a population density like Massachusets.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 4:35 AM

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RE: I would sure like to see Europes transportation system here

I come from the UK originally but now live in Germany (Hamburg to be precise) and I will say hands down the Germany public transport system is much better than the one in the UK, in the UK it is taken for granted that a train will be late, here in Germany it is rare a train is late also on the Autobahns (motorways/freeways) there is no speed limit :D ( gives you a nice feeling to blast past a police car when you are doing 200-250km/h(120-150mp/h), also here there isnt a tenth of the speed and CCTV cameras that are in the UK.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 9:02 AM

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Re: RE: I would sure like to see Europes transportation system here

by CF

Some sections of autobahn are unrestricted; however, the cops will crucify you for passing on the right.

As to having any sort of public-transportation system anywhere: I live near Portland, OR. They have what is arguably the best PTS in the USA. This does not change the fact that a trip which takes me 30 minutes by car becomes a 90-minute death-march via PT (most of which involves waiting for the bus/train to show up, or having to stop every 30 seconds). Never mind: I live equidistant from three bus lines; even if I wanted to use PT, I still have to walk the better part of three miles in order to get to it, and if I'm late by so much as a second, I get to add 15 minutes to my trip -- minimum.

No -- PT is only useful in Urban settings. I am perfectly willing to see private vehicles banned within Urban Areas, and Urban Areas surrounded by large parking structures for those of us who are coming in temporarily.

Finally: One unavoidable fact all of you are missing:

"If you bought it, a Big Truck brought it."

High fuel prices mean high prices for everything else. Cheap fuel is the lifeblood of modern technological society. Any policy which causes prices to increase destroys modern society. Thus, anyone proposing policies to deliberately increase fuel prices is a enemy of the human race -- who must be dealt with accordingly.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 2:48 PM

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Sizes..

"In the US taxes per liter (to compare apples to apples, given the US uses Imperial gallons for its pump measurements)"

Really?
I thought you used US gallons 3.6ish litres to the gallon, not Imperial (4.5 litres)..

Posted on May 15, 2012, 11:10 PM

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"I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm trying to be smart." - Linus Van Pelt

by Nohbody

I was originally going to go with just "gallons", but I suspected that someone would play "smartass" and ask "which kind?". The result was 50/50/90 material.

(50/50 chance, 90% of the time you'll pick wrong.)

Posted on May 16, 2012, 2:23 AM

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Or rather "... when I'm being smart". Self-demonstrating title. :( [n/t]

by Nohbody

.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 2:24 AM

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San Jose

by Mike Van Pelt

Yesterday at the Costco in San Jose, $4.099, pump price. That's generally $.15 - $.20/gallon lower than the "name brand" stations, which I never use unless I'm really desperate, and not counting Costco's 3% rebate on gas sales.

I'm likewise ... bemused ... by the theory that increasing the supply of oil does nothing to increase the availability of gasoline or decrease its price.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 11:13 PM

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TANSTAAFL!

by Maker Of Toys

Wow. you mean there's a more expensive place than California? It's $4.38 at the corner Chevron station here. . . and $4.32 at the nearest Arco. It's going to be another banner quarter for Prius sales!

So I usually try to stay out of these political dust-ups. But this time I'm gonna wade in. This is gonna be a long post, so I'll summarize first:

TL;DR:
There is large latency in the energy and global raw-materials/commodity extraction economies; Globalization means increased competition for resources, not just cheap goods; the opportunity cost of cheap, instant gratification may be larger and later than we realize; long term problems are rarely amenable to short-term solutions.

{rant = 'loud'}

A few points:

1) RE gas prices: It's not a CRUDE SUPPLY problem- the bottleneck is in refining. The GLOBAL market can absorb more refined hydrocarbon than we (as a species) can convert from the feed stock available, and so the price goes up. When some of that refining capability goes out of production (as happened recently), the price of the finished product goes up more, because the bottleneck is even narrower. Basic economics! Even so, let's drill some virtual wells and see what happens. If you start a well today, it might (assuming it's productive at all) start production in a couple of years; and then you have to transport the extracted material to the refinery via ship, rail or pipe. (all of which also take time or their own to build and put into operation. . .) i.e. starting a well today MIGHT have some influence on 2015's crude futures, but more likely 2018's. And there is limited capacity to DRILL those wells; most of that capacity is in use. See below about long term prices and incentives for building the infrastructure needed to achieve capacity increases.

Solution? Well, it's obvious that more drilling doesn't help without more refineries, right? So, easy! Have the president tell the oil companies to build more refining capacity! (As if!) Well, even if we had a president that would try that, licensing a refinery isn't a federal issue (other than the EPA regs, which can be met, else no refinery would exist in the US today!)-- it's a LOCAL issue. . . land use, air pollution, transportation access, security. . . . there are relatively few places in the US that are suitable for a refinery, don't already HAVE one, and are willing to accept the construction of a new one. (and if we're trying to lower gas prices in the US through independance from global markets, building the refinery somewhere else is kinda self-defeating, yeah?) More than anything It's the NIMBYs (who tend to make a lot of noise about infrastructure projects in general) who have stifled most of the efforts that have been made. Then there's the lead time, and NO president gets to weigh in on that.

Combine the difficulty of starting a new project with the recent relatively low (historically speaking) cost of hydrocarbons. In the late 70's when the economy is bad and fuel was expensive, a Gallon of 88 octane cost about 4-5 candybars. When I started driving, late in the Reagan era, 87 octane STILL cost 3 candybars. Early 90's? about 1.5-2 candybar. The last few years? Still about 2- 2.5 candybars. I look at that trend, and I don't see an large incentive to build more capacity. Now it's back closer to 4 candybars, and people want a quick fix. But if you do drive the price down, now the incentive to drill goes away again. Boom--Bust--Boom--Bust. Want stability in the energy market? Invest in alternate sources. TANSTAAFL!(****) Folks, it took time to get into this mess; it'll take time to get back out.

2) Hydrocarbons (and energy more generally) are a global commodity-- if we want the marginal Megajoule of energy to wind up in our economy, we've gotta be the highest bidder. And we've been buying a heck of a lot of stuff from China, who (surprise!) wants, needs, AND CAN NOW PAY FOR that same energy we're used to getting for so cheap. And because Americans (as are many other nationalities) are addicted to cheap manufactured goods, China has suffered relatively less than the rest of the first world. TANSTAAFL again- want cheap junk? You get to pay for it in some other sector.

3) Hedge Funds; Credit Default Swaps; Banks too big to fail; Companies that are too valuable to lose; Cronyism and Loan guarantees. . .call it what you will, it all ends up as arrogance driving price volatility, sucking money out of otherwise healthy markets, and generally playing (russian) roulette with the economy. And no-one seems to be able to recite the rules. But when the gun inevitably goes 'BANG', I don't see many big investors keel over. Diversification, don't invest what you can't afford to lose, past performance no guarantee of future results. . .Yadda yadda yadda. You want a semi-stable market? People who probably don't need it are going to be protected; and the cost of that protection is going to slow any recovery that might happen. TANSTAAFL!

4) Before we get all sidetracked with the whole Solyndra debacle (the loan that shouldn't have been made, the money that shouldn't have been squandered (sure is a pretty factory, though); the product that wasn't ever going to be market viable. . .), please realize that energy is going to be the limiting factor for human endeavor unless and until we can make fusion practical, safe AND cheap. The Chinese government recognizes this (as do several of the European governments- notably Germany) and are investing HUGE sums of money exploring every possible avenue to bring alternate sources to market. They make loan gambles the size of Solyndra regularly-- Many of them pay off. We've (the US) had one spectacular (and quite possibly fraudulent) failure, but also some quiet successes. TANSTAAFL- if you're giving out cheap/free money, shysters are going to try for it. If you invest, sometimes it doesn't pay off; ya pays ya money, ya takes ya chances. Suck it up and move on.

5)Once upon a time, we won a war, then got rich and arrogant while the world recovered by buying our products, learning how to duplicate them then figuring out how to make them better, cheaper, or both. Meanwhile, we fought a couple/4 more ultimately pointless wars (one of which we're still fighting) and in so doing, burned up a whole lot of our GDP that DIDN'T go to developing-world factories, and consuming domestic manufacturing capacity that might otherwise been turned to consumer goods. Maybe Iraq will finish sorting themselves out-- and while I hope they do, Korea still hasn't. Don't get me wrong- Saddam was a monster and the world is better without him. And the TALIBAN are worse; throwing both of them out of power was a good and proper goal! - but opening up a second front when we were already stuck to the tar-baby that is Afghanistan? We learned NOTHING from WW2. Money spent on blowing $#!+ up isn't available for other purposes. TANSTAAFL- Sure; there are manufacturing jobs because of military spending, but it's kinda hard to resell a used Hellfire; and the only market for new ones comes with a tax bill attached. . . it's a double whammy.

6) 2001- the Dot-Bomb. 2002-2006 The "Jobless Recovery'. Why? We weren't creating new factories to manufacture stuff, and barely inventing new products, (though we sure came up with a lot of new ways to buy the stuff that WAS being made from the people who WERE making it. . .) Manufacturing and innovation are the 'productive' jobs, and we didn't create them in big enough quantities to fuel our spending. Instead, the 'recovery' was financed by real-estate equity. In 2008 when the Real estate bubble finally burst, the money from 2002-2006's spending spree had been sent overseas for cheap trinkets and energy; and there's not a big manufacturing/R+D base to fall back on for exports to bring some of that money back. So lo! and behold - STILL no job growth-- there's no cash to support the service sector, which is the only one that can react to a changing economy as fast as we'd like. TANSTAAFL! We (literally) mortgaged our future, and now there's a real danger of it being foreclosed on.

which brings us to:

7) Reagan, et al. still had a functional manufacturing and R+D base to fall back on. Since then, each successive wave of policy makers has had less and less of that base economic activity to rely on; for half a century or more we've (as a society) been increasingly buying the products of heavy industry and innovation from overseas, while relying on a service economy at home; As a society we've been denigrating the dirty, sometimes risky process of MAKING things. A service economy is great, until the cashflow is threatened-- then there's nothing to pump VALUE back into the economy to supply the cash to pay for the service sector. If we want to blame a policy maker for the state we're in (and I don't think that's really where the blame lies) then Nixon and his pals' 'normalized relations with China' is probably the biggest single factor. But it's not the whole story- We've bought a lot of baubles from Japan, Korea and Europe, too. TANSTAAFL- If you buy something today, without selling something else tomorrow, eventually you're going to run out of money to buy stuff with.

8) and Finally: It took most of 70 years to get into this mess (a mess that most of the rest of the world seems to share). I can't see that even if we get Republican victories in all three major policy bodies (the White house, Senate, and House of Representatives) that we're going to turn this around in 4 years or less. Just not going to happen-- too much inertia! I think the Republicans know this instinctively, even if they don't say as much-- their rhetoric isn't "Fix the US and the World" it's "Defeat Obama". And they may well do that. But if they (and we as voters) go in thinking that's all they have to do, we, as a country, are doomed. FULL STOP. And I haven't seen any evidence that ANYONE in Washington can see/think/plan past the next even-numbered November. TANSAAFL- we (as a society) got into this hole by thinking and acting in the short term. It's unreasonable in the extreme to think that we're going to get OUT of it by thinking in the short term.

Then there's a whole 'nother rant about corruption of our values; the relative durability of 'durable' goods and the lack of 'service' in the service economy, and what to do about all of that. . . but you've had enough of me for tonight.

{/rant}

****For those who don't read Heinlein: (T)here (A)in't (N)o (S)uch (T)hing (A)s (A) (F)ree (L)unch!

Posted on May 16, 2012, 1:29 AM

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A few key responses...

Not, by any means, diasagreeing with everything you said. Just covering a few relevant points.

On point one, it's worth noting that the newest refinery in the United States was built in 1976.

Other refineries have expanded and upgraded since then, of course, but no all-new ones have been built in almost forty years.

The other half of point one reminds us that fourteen years ago, one of the excuses the Clinton Administration used against opening ANWR to exploration and drilling was that it'd take ten years before said development would hit the market.

The argument "It'll take X years to complete" is a stronger reason to start as soon as possible rather than "it's not worth doing"- especially on as crucial a commodity as oil. The Golden Gate Bridge took four and a half years to complete. Should they not have started at all, since it wouldn't solve traffic congestion issues that day?

On point four, Solyndra was by no means the only stimulus failure. They were only one of at least three solar-panel makers to take stimulus funds and then tank. Fisker will probably tank, and the big push to train a bunch of "green collar" jobs with the stimulus wound up paying some $300,000 per trainee- who then had few or no jobs to go to.

On a grander scale, the whole ethanol mandate has been a massive failure, and will continue to be a drain on resources until killed by congress. Almost all of them, from Solyndra on down, were virtually guaranteed failures before the stimulus, but all were pushed through for political or PR reasons.

And finally, on point eight, while generally speaking I do try to keep politics off the Guild, it's worth noting that while we don't know exactly what the Republicans will do if or when they win in November, we can, unfortunately, know quite well what Obama will do.

He continues to insist that "green" energy is viable, and that no additional research or exploration needs to be conducted on fossil fuels. And anyone with an IQ larger than their shoe size knows that's an utter crock. None of the "green" technologies are new- windmills, hydroelectric dams, solar power, etc. are all hundreds of years old, and we don't use them today because they don't work. It's almost physically impossible to put up enough windmills to offset more than a very small fraction of the 46% of electrical generation we get from coal. We're talking terawatts of power- and that's only when the wind blows.

We've already seen that Obama will openly defy both the letter of the law and the Constitution (recess appointments, ignoring FOIA requests, etc.) and will let regulatory agencies- such as the EPA- run wild without oversight (IE, without congressional approval for major policy changes) so even a Republican-held Congress and Senate wouldn't necessarily stop him.

It may smack of tifoil-hattedness, but yes, I shudder to think of what an Obama that doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected (for the first time in his life) would be willing to do, in order to- in his words- "transform" America.

We've already seen that he has no clue in what to do about the economy, and a firm reliance on outmoded- if not discredited- concepts like Keynesism, and unworkable ideas like high-speed rail and hybrid or electric cars.

NONE of his attempts at improving the economy have worked. Not one. Worse, he openly lied about pet projects doing so, despite the mathematical impossibility of it. Obamacare was supposed to add 30 million people to an already-overworked and understaffed health care system and reduce the prices? Despite also adding literally thousands of new regulations and requirements?

The Republican field sure ain't my cup of tea either, but Romney's at least got direct business experience- and right now, what we need is somebody who knows how capitalism works, and what a business wants out of its government. Doomed? Sorry, if the choice is between the guy who wants to raise taxes and spend it on trains that have no riders, electric cars that have no buyers, and businesses that never produce anything but leftover toxic waste, and the guy who has personally and directly run more than one successful business, well, my money's on the businessman.

Doc.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 3:04 AM

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Actually, Green tech works, but you need to know where it's best suited...

by Snowtroll

The way some politicians push Green energy is actually causing alienation and lots of problems.

Windmills, wave or tidal generators...
(Wave and tidal are 'up and coming tech')
Good for supplementary power and remote locations where there's more danger of loss of main trunks.

Solar... Still overhyped, but tech is improving so that in 10 years time it might be usable for larger plants.
(Isn't there a 'Green' town in Germany that uses mostly solar?)

Electric cars...
Batteries can't hold enough power for the user's needs...
Yeah, right...
The problem is that people don't want to sit down and really study their driving habits...
At most, they'd need a top-up at the office.
And rent a big car the one or two times each year they need one.

'Bio diesel'...
Or ethanol...
Where does it come from?
Large areas that was either rainforrest or good food-crop fields are being used to grow plants to create this stuff.
And THAT's supposed to be 'green'?

What can people do to help out?

1. Consider how they're heating their homes. A Heat-pump(from ground tap or even an air-to-air model) gives 3x or better heating for every Watt pumped into it.
2. Use Patio heaters for target practice...
(I can't stand the bl**dy things. Probably the only thing more wasteful is a Hummer... )
3. Bicycles. Did you know that most trips made with a car(in europe) is less than 5Km?
3.b. If you're lazy or have ltos of uphills, get electric assist on it... (I'm rebuilding my bicycle with a 250W motor and 36V/10AH battery... )
4. In colder areas, how much insulation do you have in the ceiling?
(I have 8" but may add another 4" later)
4.b. Or the walls? (I have 6" of insulation.)

I assume that everyone driving an F-150 or a SUV actually needs it?
Yeah, right...

Posted on May 16, 2012, 4:08 AM

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I herd

I herd that wind generators use just about as much power to turn them selves into the wind as they produce, and adding the price of maintenance makes them worthless.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 5:02 PM

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Vertical wind turbines

by Urban Werebear

One of the malls in my area installed three vertical wind turbines to help reduce power costs. Here's a link to the mall page with a pic of the turbines in the slideshow-

http://www.easttownmallgb.com/

Smaller footprint, more durable, fewer moving parts. Seems like a good idea to me.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 8:54 PM

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But how many birds do they kill?

by Nohbody

I ask because while if a bird so much as sneezes near a conventional power plant, the feds come down on the plant like the proverbial ton of bricks, whereas last month the Dept of Interior was talking about giving exemptions to the laws against killing bald eagles to "green" power producers.

https://federalregister.gov/a/2012-8086

Posted on May 17, 2012, 4:35 AM

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How many?

by Urban Werebear

I would guess quite a few less than a traditional wind turbine, due to the much smaller potential danger zone and the more concentrated movement noise. I don't have any hard data, though. I kinda doubt that a mall is going to want a potential bird splatterhouse just outside their main entrance, though, so hopefully the mall management did their homework on it. (Never can tell with management.)

Also, not saying they're noisier than a prop-style turbine, just that the sound is radiated over a smaller area.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 6:20 AM

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Green energy in Germany.

There are actually lots of Wind turbines around here, also there are lots of houses with banks of solar panels on their house who sell surplus power back to the power companies (so I am led to believe), also Hamburg is one of the Greenst ( as in trees and grass) cities in Europe, not bad considering it is also the 2nd largest container terminal in europe and we also have not only an International Airport in the middle of the city but one of the big Airbus factories and also one of the main Ship repair yards in Europe (the Q.E.2 is reguarly here), with all that the City is still remarkably clean and smog free.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 9:34 AM

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True

...//sell surplus power back to the power companies (so I am led to believe)//...

True, Don't know about homes, but one "company" I know has it set up so they buy power from the plant, and the electricity created by their own solar panels, they sell back to the power company for a higher price.

Sounds odd to me, but that's how its working, don't know if it will always be like that?

Posted on May 17, 2012, 7:32 PM

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Who is needed to run the country?

by MephitMark

In this I will simply say this; we need some one to run this country, not as a business, not social service what ever. The duty of the government is not to really pro or anti something or another. But to run the country in the best means for every one. Not to run it as a business to produce anything per-say, but allow a business to function. And to unsure it is done fairly and safely.

I'm not all that thrilled when some services are owned by government (trash, electric or such). Where is the competition to improve product/service? But there are some 'stability' factors needed at times.

Is there a working, functional answer, I really hope so. I just doubt it will be very quick, easy, nor will it satisfy every ones 'views' on the matter.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 10:07 AM

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Also Not disagreeing. . . but points to your points to my points.

by Maker of Toys

Note that I said that the problem isn't "Obama has to go". . . I don't think that's much of a debate.

The problem I see is that the biggest plank I hear in the Rep. platform IS: "Obama has to go." It's drowning out the things that really matter, to wit: "after he's gone, then what?" And THAT is what we as a nation need to concentrate on. Tell me WHY and HOW this political party is going to do a better job than that other one and it's a no brainer that I'll pull the lever for the gang with the plan; but adhominim attacks are a sign that all remaining arguments are even weaker, and I can't express how much that worries and saddens me. I guess I'm railing against politics as usual. . . I'm certainly not shilling for anyone.

to the rest of the post:
Wind does have its problems, (and they are legion) no question-- and the biggest one is that the wind is usually blowing when and where no-one wants power. There are ways to fix that; Here in the SF bay area, there is some thinking that combined wind-hydro installations would fix the biggest problems with renewables like wind-- STORAGE. The basic idea is, use the wind when it's available to pump water into a reservoir via reversable turbines, then let it back out when you actually need the power. The reversable turbine concept is not new; there are several 30-50 year old off-stream reservoirs in the California water system that operate that way already, and are used to round off spikes in power demand and supply.

Which brings me to:
Hydro doesn't work? Fact Check time.
Tell that to the operators of Quebec Hydro, the TVA, the operators of Bonneville Dam, and the operators of Hoover Dam, among others. In fact, tell that to the city of San Francisco, which powers their entire water network from O'Shaunessy Dam and still has power to sell. (and the Enviro-Nimby's want to tear it down to "Restore Hetch Hetchy" without specifying someplace that water could be subtituted from. . . . but that's a different and more local rant.) But just as "Drill baby" doesn't fix today's problem, (and your point that that doesn't mean "Don't Drill" is salient here) dams take money and time, and like refineries, the few remaining suitable sites are very much subject to local politics. So "Dam it" isn't a quick or even entire solution, either.

Then there's solar, which even without storage, has achieved grid parity in some places (Germany, China, Japan) with no tax breaks or subsidies. . . thanks largely to the Chinese government's relentless drive to saturate the market with cheap silicon cells and drive marginal players (Solyndra, Others) out of the market with the evident goal of achieving monopoly or something close to it. And there are suitable sites for solar everywhere-- factory roofs, parking structures, apartment complexes- suburban houses; schools; sports venues; warehouse stores. . . and those sites are by definition, close to the point of consumption.

(Grid parity is herein defined as being when total lifetime revenue at current wholesale price per kWh is greater than total cost of ownership incl. purchase, installation, maintenance, operation and interest, with sufficient margin to interest investors)

ALTERNATES! Right now, Fossil energy has something very close to a monopoly on human energy supply; and hydrocarbons are useful for many other things, too. . . . Tires; Lubricants; plastics; composites; roads; fertilizers; food packaging; clothing. . . Yeah. Even if we stopped burning the stuff tomorrow, there's plenty of reasons to drill today.

Ethanol- HAH. Not the way it's done now-- we use fossil-derived fertilizer to generate a fuel with lower energy value per kg or per volume than the feedstock for the fertilizer and mechanical inputs to the system. (excuse me? how is this eco-freindly?) At best we achieve break-even, which works if we're using the product as an oxygenate that helps reduce pollution. (a worthy goal, IMHO) But as a primary transportation fuel? Bad Idea.

Biodiesel? similarly, not the way we're doing it. Which would you rather make with your farmland? food for people or food for cars?

BUT:
Both of the bio-hydrocarbon leaders would be much more viable if we used non-food-related feedstocks; and there is progress in that direction, spurred by the artificially high price that the current subsidies provide. Will bio-hydrocarbons reach breakeven? I don't know- but I'd like to find out. I'd much rather subsidize an R+D program than bail out a bunch of bankers who can't articulate the rules by which they're gambling. R+D means jobs now, with possibility of products and more jobs later. Reconstituting unlucky investors means that we're paying again for something we already had and someone pissed away.

Hydrogen? DOUBLE HAH! There might be some way to modify bacteria or algae to produce hydrogen at high enough production and low enough cost to make it attractive as an energy storage medium; but the way we're doing it now is a net energy loss and therefore only suitable for niche applications. Again, I'd support an R+D program for the same reasons that drilling today makes sense.

Electric propulsion? NOW we're talking! the technology exists, and is easy to adapt to new (alternate) primary sources. . . . Electric propulsion is, by definition, primary energy agnostic- the electric motor doesn't care where the current originates; just that there is sufficient current available.

While I don't think the time has come (Nor may it ever, but R+D is still a worthwhile investment) for a wholesale conversion of the private car fleet to battery-electric operation, there are other proven, effective ways to use electric power for transportation.

San Francisco (among others) uses trolly buses and several electrically powered rail systems (even the famous Cable Cars are ultimately powered by centralized electric winches), so public transportation in urban (and even inter-urban) areas is one proven application. Then there's Electrification of long-haul rail freight, which we've flirted with off and on, even to the point of having diesel-electric locomotives equipped to take power from trackside for underground travel. Electric propulsion, properly applied, works- and has for many years. We just have to decide to expand the system and Mean It.

(And to be california-centric here, expanding the system does NOT mean a high-speed rail link from Podunk to Cowtown. Put it where there are enough potential riders and existing traffic congestion to make it viable! But I digress.)

Well, there went my lunch hour. . . Thus endith the rant for now.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 12:30 PM

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Some corrections...

When I implied hydroelectric "didn't work", it was kind of a poor choice of words.

Hydro does, indeed, as you note, work, and works well. The problem is, we've run out of rivers to dam. Even if we ignored water-usage/irrigation concerns, and skipped over fishery concerns, we might be able to find at best one or two more fair-to-medium sized rivers to put a hydroelectric dam on.

Hydro gives is a small but significant percentage of our electricity- less than 10% as I recall. To offset more than a few fractions of a percent of the 45%-ish percent we get from coal, we'd need dozens of Hoover-sized dams, or hundreds of smaller dams- and there just aren't any suitable rivers left to put them on.

On your point about solar, you're being rather optimistic. Germany, for example, has come very close to multiple brownouts in the last year due to overreliance on solar panels. Output has proven to be a fraction of their ratings, and they only held off a full blackout by buying surplus power from neighboring countries- who produced it with nuclear plants.

The problem here, again, is storage. The sun doesn't always shine, so solar is intermittent. Solar panels are cheap these days. Storage is still extremely expensive. "Parity" calculations typically don't include storage concerns.

Storage is again the issue with electric cars. Electrics are nothing new- we had electric cars before we had gas powered cars. But the capacity (and cost) of the battery has always been an issue.

It's also worth noting that several "green" technologies are region-specific. Electric cars, solar and ethanol do very poorly in the cold. There are large areas of the world- and in fact, the US- where electric cars are unworkable. Unless there's something special about some miracle new battery technology, an electric car that would get 40 miles on a full charge in California in the summer, might barely get five miles in Alaska in the winter. Part of that is the necessarily-electrically-driven heater, headlights and defrosters, but part is also the loss in capacity due to the cold. (Cold slows chemical reactions. It's that simple.)

So there cannot and will not ever be a wholesale conversion to electric vehicles.

We also don't use ethanol blends up here, as it reacts very poorly in the cold. Besides the ethanol itself refusing to vaporize, the moisture it attracts freezes and disables the car. Pure ethanol would be impossible to use for upwards of six months of the year.

You, or another poster, also mentioned heat pumps. Those really only work in places that need or use air conditioning- that's where it gets the heat to pump into the ground. Again, up here, we don't go from needing heat in the winter to needing AC in the summer, it's going from needing heat in the winter to needing somewhat less heat in the summer. Groundwater- which we have plenty of- is also an issue. If you pumped heat into the ground, but flowing groundwater pulled it away, it's costing you energy.

Long story short on all this, is that some "green" technologies may actually work on paper, there are practical reasons they don't in application.

Doc.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 1:21 PM

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A correction for you...

by Someone

Heat pumps also work as heaters, even in Alaska. The ground, below a fairly shallow depth, is at a constant temperature. By playing games with your pumps, heat exchangers, and expansion valves, it's possible to take the water in your loop coming out of the ground at 60-65 F, strip the heat from it, then pump it back into the ground at 45-50 F

The primary coolant loop would be compressor, inside air heat exchanger, expansion valve, pumped water heat exchanger, then back to the compressor.

Efficiency compared to natural gas heating is, I believe, a tossup depending on relative energy pricing and the temperatures involved. A outside air heat pump wouldn't work as well in Alaska, because there just isn't as much recoverable heat in -20 F air without going to an exotic like liquid nitrogen heat exchangers.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 2:32 PM

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My air-air pump works at -15C/5F

by Snowtroll

but then the efficiency is shot, so I've already lit up the firewood by then.

Some air-air models works down to -25C/-13F, but they're a bit more expensive than my model.
(I bought the cheapest pump on the market. A 'do it yourself' kit with pre-filled system and 'quick-connect' tubing. )

Now, what really is annoying is that firewood is considered 'carbon neutral'. That would assume that you went out into the forrest and GNAWED THROUGH a tree, carried it home and carate-chopped it into suitable pieces.
Firewood these days is cut down with chainsaws, cut into suitable lengths and split with expensive machinery, and if you're a dork who buys crap, packed into mesh bags of 40 or 60L.
(Palletloads or trailerloads is the way to go, unless you buy logs and cut/split it yourself.)

Posted on May 17, 2012, 10:47 PM

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Energy medium term solutions.

by baldusi

I'm afraid that eventually, as long as population grows, we'll hit some hard limit. For now, technology is (barely) allowing us to fall into Maltusian wars.
But the true issue is a bit on what you said. Long terms solutions that might take decades to be a solution need to be taken now. Take fusion power, for example. I've seen scientists quoting 80B and 15 years for 15 years. They were never funded because it was too much into the future. I'm sure it will cost something like 200B and take 25 years to have the first fusion reactor. But that's not bad. If you could know that in 50 years 90% of your energy production would be fusion, you only need a transition plan. A lot of nuclear plants would be a great help, for example. And the cost is not that much. Say that you want to convert all the fuel pumps to electric chargers, that's something like 100B. How much was the Integral Fast Reactor until fully developed, a few Billions? Replacing every coal powerplant with nuclear, that's 1,750B.
To put an example, that I'm afraid will ignite some nationalistic tendencies here, the Irak invasion (2003-2011) cost, directly 845B. And it cost the USA economy some 3B. Had you not invaded Irak you could have probably developed fusion power, converted 60% of your power plants to nuclear and have one third of new cars electric. Had you also had spent the stimulus package on perfecting the IFB technology and deployment, you could have converted the whole non renewable power plants to fourth generation plants and developed nuclear fusion.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 12:44 PM

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Fusion power

by Urban Werebear

http://www.iter.org/

Currently under construction in France- Tokomak-type fusion reactor array. Fusion plants might not be as far off as is commonly thought.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 9:08 PM

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High temperature Fusion is a bad idea

by Sleepydawg

I think they are going to continue to have problems with tokamak-style nuclear fusion projects forever. Just think about it. The actual fusion reaction in this type of reactor has to operate at temperatures so ridiculously high that they make a fission meltdown look like a cup of hot tea in comparison. We're talking PLASMA gas here, folks. Then we contain this really hot stuff with magnetic fields. Where does the magnetic field come from? Extremely cold superconductors. Lessee, I need something really, really hot, right next to something that has to stay really, really cold. Errr, I'll stand waaaaaay over there, OK?

I'm no scientist, so I can't comment on the radiation emitted during a fusion reaction, but a brief reading of some wiki pages tells me there's a high-energy neutron flux that's going to come from the fusion reaction. (Deuterium and Hydrogen fuse to form Helium plus 3.5 MeV of energy and a neutron with 14.1 MeV of energy, for example) The neutron emission is a problem - the neutrons can cause secondary radiation effects by converting things they hit into radioactive isotopes by neutron capture. You can shield the reactor with stuff like Lithium, but that shield is going to be converted over time to some really nasty stuff. "Clean Fusion" my ass.

There's a secondary x-ray radiation from the reaction, caused by the reaction of the ionized fusion fuel with the electrons in the plasma cloud. The scientists call it Bremsstrahlung. That x-ray emission needs to be shielded, typically by a stainless steel shield that absorbs the radiation and converts it to heat.

When it's all said and done, our vaunted fusion reaction is going to produce heat, which we'll use to produce steam to spin a turbine to make our electric power. The heat-producing core just sounds too complex. The more complex it is, the easier it breaks.

-Sleepy

Posted on May 17, 2012, 7:08 AM

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Not necessarily.

If you look at the ITER papers, you will find several things directly related to your concerns:

* Yes, the neutron flux is high. It is actually used to breed tritium (i.e., fusion fuel) in the reactor mantlet.

* Yes, the shielding materials will get irradiated. But this isn't heavy actinides being produced, but comparatively short-lived and light isotopes. Instead of having to put this stuff away for thousands of years, you can safely recycle it in a couple of decades.

* The basic technology is sound; all that ITER will be "experimental" about is the scale of things, both size and life-time. Actually, for all that it's experimental in nature, ITER is expected to go beyond break-even, energetically.

While I'd personally prefer to "go green" all the way, I believe that mankind's hunger for energy will leave fusion as the only viable long-term option. We simply have no other choice, especially not if we really want to grasp for the stars.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 4:12 AM

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Re: Energy medium term solutions.

by CF

"I'm afraid that eventually, as long as population grows, we'll hit some hard limit. For now, technology is (barely) allowing us to fall into Maltusian wars. "

And there you have it. The real problem is: Too many extraneous people on the planet. Knock the population back down to the 50 million or so the planet can actually hold in US-level comfort, and watch the rest of the problems disappear.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 2:51 PM

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potential energy sources

by someone

all the talk about fusion and new fission reactors is one thing but we need to start putting money into them. fusion is a potentially good source of power however it has lots of problems primarily that all the systems we have been developing are too complex and prone to breakdown. there are other concepts than the tokomak and inertial confinement (and i don't mean cold fusion) we just need to look into them.
as for fission we already have better reactor designs and have for decades we just need to start building them. while yes the initial startup cost is high its worth it. if we as a country could produce all of our power without importing any foreign oil or coal then that would be a massive step forward. but again all concepts will have problems as doc said most current green ideas would only work intermittently or only in specific areas. however with time and research we could develop alternatives to many of the energy sources we use now. that being said right now we just dont have the money to devote to a lot of the research necessary to create functioning systems we need to focus on getting the economy working and fix the more pressing issues before diving into something else.

Posted on May 18, 2012, 10:04 PM

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Hah...

"Right now we don't have the money"?

By that line of reasoning, we will never have the money for anything. We didn't have the money to go to the moon, either.

Posted on May 25, 2012, 4:16 AM

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$3.62

by Barry

yep, down from $3.85 2 weeks ago

Posted on May 16, 2012, 3:22 AM

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quit your crying!

by Ratpaker

Guys, here in Australia...and our dollar is almost parity with the green back...out petrol per gallon works out at about $6.16.....so count your blessings!

Posted on May 16, 2012, 3:36 AM

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I was waiting...

... For somebody in Europe or Oz to say "quit'cher bitchen!"

Doc.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 1:25 PM

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Germany: 8.24 dollar / gallon.

Assuming that 1 Gallon = 3,79 liters, and 1 Euro = 1,28 dollars.

So stop the whining already.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 4:12 AM

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Whoops...

Those were petrol prices, two weeks ago. Prices actually went down somewhat:

Diesel - USD 7.03 / gallon
Petrol - USD 7.90 / gallon

Posted on May 16, 2012, 4:14 AM

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$3.599/gal.

by Ketira

...and with the 10-liter gas tank on my nice Element, that comes to a little over $30. (But then, I get the car wash at the same time, esp. now that it's storm/lovebug season.)

Posted on May 16, 2012, 4:53 AM

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$3.799/gallon

by jwhouk

And it surprises me you're at $4.759 up there. What do they do, send the oil down to Louisiana via the Panama Canal to be refined first?

Posted on May 16, 2012, 5:04 AM

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$8 per gallon in Sweden.... So quit whining.. -NT-

by Nils

-NT-

Posted on May 16, 2012, 5:38 AM

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On Brazil...

$5.12 a gallon.... but you can hardly call that gasoline.

It has 25% of alcohol added on it, plus additives, plus dyes, and the gasoline used is of low quality compared to the US IIRC... ours have 80-85 octanes AKI... there is a "premium" or "podium" gasoline that have a 88-92 octanes AKI... but it costs around $6.5/gal and can damage some of the weaker engines that equip our cars here (reads: 1.0 liter crap).

Posted on May 16, 2012, 5:59 AM

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Brazil

by Shalom

I had thought that in Brazil, alcohol-fueled cars were the norm, or once were. I have somewhere a worldwide catalog of model-year 1985 cars with their specifications, that showed that pretty much all Brazilian-made cars were available with a choice of engines: either something like 6:1 compression for use with 73 (!) octane gas, or 11:1 compression for alcohol. Do they not do this anymore?

Posted on May 16, 2012, 3:50 PM

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One word: FLEX

Today, you will hardly find a alcohol-only fueled car. But, FLEX cars (that use a mix of gasoline-alcohol) are all around the place.

But in the 70's and 80's, such technology didn't exist, AND alcohol was MUCH cheaper, that's why alcohol-only cars were very popular, but still not the norm. Say, 45% of the vehicles were alcohol powered.

Heck, even VW Beetles were made here with alcohol engines

Posted on May 17, 2012, 2:53 AM

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$3.429 Premium

Indianapolis, Indiana.

And that's with a major month long influx of population and the biggest sporting events in the world happening this month.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 6:01 AM

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3.55 Corpus Christi

by Nighthawke

Which ain't half bad, but considering that the refineries are next door, it's kind of stupid for them to charge transport fees just to go 2 blocks to fill up the local fuel storage tanks...

Posted on May 16, 2012, 6:11 AM

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Re: 3.55 Corpus Christi

by Urban Werebear

I dunno, fuel companies can be pretty stupid. For instance, fuel in Green Bay is five to seven cents a gallon HIGHER than anywhere else in NE Wisconsin, even though it's shipped here over the Great Lakes and then trucked further (which should mean higher prices elsewhere, rather than here). $3.829 here, $3.779 most anywhere north and west of here.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 7:47 AM

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Texas - $3.39

by Thru-Hiker

A few weeks ago we were at $3.89, it's been declining steadily.

For now.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 8:02 AM

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Dallas, to be precise n/t

by Thru-Hiker

nada

Posted on May 16, 2012, 8:04 AM

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Don't know, don't really care...

My take on this whole thing:

Regardless of politics gas is going to get more expensive with time. A lot more expensive. Nothing we do will make it cheaper and nothing we do will prevent us from, eventually, running out.

The only solution is to use less of it. This is basically undebatable: eventually we will not have any to use, so using less now while we have it as a backup is a damn good thing. That means both reducing consumption of oil-based fuel and reducing consumption of plastics. Every ridiculous peice of packaging, every stupid plastic toy, every plastic handbag, every ounce of raw plastic which could be replaced with product that at least has some possibility of economical reclamation like glass, paper, or metal. It's going to happen whether we like it or not, so we should do it now so the remaining plastics are available for the products for which other materials are simply not adequate. Lights need to be turned off when not in use, people need to get used to being hot in the summer, and housing needs to be built with efficiency in mind. Long gone are the days when you could build a drafty shitbox of a house in the North Central states or up in AK. Commuting needs to end as well - driving an hour each way to work and zoning grocery stores outside of residential areas is utterly absurd and needs to end.

With that in mind oil cannot possibly get expensive fast enough. The more expensive it is, the more viable alternative options become. The only way people will be willing to break the habit is if the habit breaks their wallets, so bring it on.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 8:24 AM

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Pricing oil out of existence.

by MephitMark

That sounds good on paper and all. But the way things are going right now, we could end up with our economies collapsing and no way out. Because of the petroleum that is a basis to power it.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 10:16 AM

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gonna happen anyway...

sooner or later. Pretty fatalistic but true.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 11:02 AM

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4.25 for reg. but have to get Prem at 4.45, so i stoped buying!

by levi

Stupid 13.5-1 Cr race bike. (yes i could get a little 250 that gets 70-80Mpg)

Stupid Turbo'd 4cylnder making 280ft/lb's (yes i could get the same car in different trim that gets 40mpg)

stupid living near seattle where the cost of living is really high. (yes i could live where the cost's are lower, but its harder for me to get a job)

SO i started Pedal biking to a train station, and using public transit etc. save $500-$1200 a month!

Yes alot of that is cause its state subsidized. But even the much less so Private rail is a 100-600 savings...

-Levi

Posted on May 16, 2012, 10:30 AM

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$3.19 in Upstate South Carolina

by Grumley

Dropped 2 cents from $3.21 at several stations in the span of about an hour.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 8:48 PM

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$3.41 here on the SC coast...

There are some places that advertise for just a bit less, but they are a bit out of the way.

If I go searching around the area (possibly even around the county) for cheaper gas, I'd have to consider the fuel expended to get to the less expensive location, and make sure I'm not spending a dollar to save a dime.

Posted on May 17, 2012, 2:57 AM

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if i conver to your measurments something like 8-9 bucks a gallon...

by FireFrenzy

You guys really dont get to complain:)

Posted on May 19, 2012, 2:17 AM

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Canadian? nt

by Fathom

Posted on May 20, 2012, 11:42 AM

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Nah man, Dutch!

by FireFrenzy

Last true land of the free:) (we aint much for the home of the brave we prefer to be the home of the clever;P)

But you gotta love any country that goes "freedom of speach WHOOHOO" and then has people who's job description is "censor" working in media to avoid people using that free speech to say things moms might take offense to:)

Cool story i heard from Steven Lynch the song writer when he was over here a few years ago, and i went to his show and he was telling us that he was genuinely surprised that they didn't want him to edit his lyrics... He used an example from one of his songs where "sex that involves mommy's rear" needed to be changed to "involves mommies ear" which needless to say sounds alot more deviant then something as comparatively commonplace as sodomy:P

Posted on May 21, 2012, 7:13 AM

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$3.39 for regular, $3.55 for premium on 5/20 (n/t)

by Kivuli

Nihilist Turnabouts

Posted on May 21, 2012, 11:46 AM

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Euro Jerry Can

by Latrans

Not paintball or machine shop related, but given the nature of some of the discussions, I figured someone might be able to answer my inquiry.

I'm looking for a 20 liter (10 gallon) Jerry Can. I'm not a big fan of the American style lid (flush mount, screw-on) and would much prefer the locking flip-up lid with integrated spout that is found in every other part of the world. The US style is pretty easy to come by, but to find the European style I've got to start looking overseas at which point I'm also looking at $40 shipping on top of the cost of the can.

If anybody knows of a (relatively) local source, it would be greatly appreciated.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 5:42 PM

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Like this?

by MarkT

I haven't been to Europe. Is it something like this?

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/shop/army-surplus-uk/military-hardware/grade-2-used-nato-20-litre-jerry-293206.html

Posted on May 15, 2012, 6:12 PM

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Searching for NATO Jerry Can seems to be the key

by MarkT

I found some with spouts. You just need to include the word NATO.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 6:17 PM

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Yup

by Latrans

Those would be the ones. You can also find a number of examples by searching for 'steel petrol can' as opposed to 'steel gas can'. The big issue I'm trying to work around is that I don't know where to look to find those cans here in the states so I'm not out so much on shipping.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 6:46 PM

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Sources

by MarkT

Here are a couple that seem to be US.

http://shop.vtarmynavy.com/20-liter-jerry-gas-can-p12444.aspx?utm_medium=cse&utm_source=googlebase
http://store.colemans.com/cart/gerry-can-nato-p-908.html

Posted on May 15, 2012, 7:16 PM

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VT Army Navy

by Foxfire5

I know those guys up there at VT Army Navy. Cool place. A lot of... umm.. different... people.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 4:16 AM

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Thanks!

by Latrans

That cut my costs down to $60 for a can. Not exactly awesome, but decidedly better than the $80 I as looking at earlier.

I'm going to keep looking to see if I can't find anything better, but I will certainly remember these.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 7:56 AM

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No longer sold in the USA

by Hans

Thanks to the US Government, the flip top cans have been discontinued by Wedco and Blitz as they don't meet the "childproof" requirements.

Gotta go to the used/surprlus market while you still can.

-Hans

Posted on May 16, 2012, 11:05 AM

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TWB 5/15/12: On the lighter side of things....

by Ketira

...today's strip made me LOL; poor Sandy!

Of course, I snagged it for my personal (as in, never seen on any site w/o permission) cache.

Keep 'em coming, DocN!

Posted on May 15, 2012, 5:15 AM

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At least it wasn't Pirta on the receiving end...

by Snowtroll

Now Roger has a chance to live...

Posted on May 15, 2012, 5:18 AM

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I wouldn't be so sure...

by Nohbody

After all, she did threaten to saw off Doc's ears with piano wire and staple them to his knees, and he didn't just blow it off as an empty threat.

Sandy has also ordered Doc around without a) his not obeying, and b) being retaliated against.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 9:18 AM

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Re: I wouldn't be so sure...

by CTPatt

Which is kinda ridiculous considering who employs whom.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 3:57 AM

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Opinions on a marker buying site.

When I was spending a friday afternoon at the indoor field/pro shop, some of the guys were telling me about a new (to me) site where you could get some pretty whifty deals on gear. I heard about one chap scoring an Ego 11 for about $60...and another fellow getting a new Etha for about $20.
The site is Markerbids.com, and I have to admit, Im skeptical and interested at the same time. I did a little research at the site and from what I can tell, its a pay-per-bid auction site. You purchase a number of bids for a certain price (lets say 10 bids for $10, just for the sake of argument), you then use those bids for whatever is on the auction blocks at the time. Each bid increases the price of the item by one penny, and adds 15 seconds to the time remaining on the bid. Note I said auction -blocks-, as they seem to run 4 or 5 auctions simultaneously.
The site also seems to have some kind of affiliation with a paintball message board...TechPB or something like that...and run by 'Mike'. I have never been to TechPB, and I'm not sure who 'Mike' is, so I'm hesitant to invest some cash and start trying to 'win' stuff.
Has anyone else heard about this bidding site, or the message board its affiliated with? I realize I could probably do some more in depth research at the site but (and not making any accusations, here) that seems like asking a three card monty shyster if his game is on the up and up.
Can someone 'in the know' give me a little more information on this whole thing? Is it legit? Is it a waste of time and space?

Posted on May 15, 2012, 2:09 AM

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it like a leage ponzzie scam.

first off any legit sellers is going to allow you to look at what up for auction or for sale..look here on doc b/s/t or any big paintball web pages that have b/s/t pages. your going to have photos and info of what for sale. another red flag is where is mike getting these so called cheap markers...if the marker is damaged or not as it was posted in the auction who do you send the marker back too or contact other than a gmail account???

Posted on May 15, 2012, 2:53 AM

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auction items

Well, they do post photos of the items currently for sale, but its 'stock' photos...pictures you would see looking at retail sites or looking up the image on google. They did have one Bob Long pump for sale that, due to a few factors, was one of two in existence. Which did make me wonder...where are they getting the stuff they are selling?

Posted on May 15, 2012, 3:02 AM

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Re: auction items

by Anon E. Moose

Word is that he gets them as test items and then sells them on his auction site. At least some of them anyway.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 3:35 AM

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Re: auction items

Hey guys, just so you know, the site is legit. I've won a few things off of there, but it is a "penny auction" site. Mike makes the majority of his money off of the bids that people buy, not the selling price. Each bid costs about a dollar (cheaper for the bigger packs), so when you see that Ego 11 selling for $12.00...Mike's getting around $1,200 for that.

I've won a few hoppers and masks of off there, and got them for relatively cheap on my end. For example, I won a rotor last summer for about $20 of cost to me. So Mike got the money from me, but he also got the money from everyone else's bids who didn't win. If you're good at it, you can get some sweet deals and turn around and sell it on a b/s/t forum for some quick cash, but if you're not good, you'll loose a lot of money really fast.

Also, the majority of items are BNIB, and the guns are usually the ones that you'll see in the review videos.

It's not a scam, but it is similar to gambling, and you can loose money real fast if you're not careful.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 9:48 AM

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SCAM! Stay away!

by Snowtroll

I have NEVER seen any of that kind of 'auction' being legit.

In fact, here in Norway they fall under Lottery laws and are in practice banned.

The 'price' of an item is not related to what the 'winner' pays as it's merely a count of 'bids'.
If a marker 'sells' for $100, it means they got $10.000 for it.
and it's the FINAL BIDDER who won, even if he only paid $10 to buy '10 bids'...

So what you're 'buying' is the hope that no one else is willing to also buy 'bids' on it after you.

The reason the 'price' only rise by 1cent is that it disassocciates the item from the real winnings.

Checked the site and the finished auctions, and one thing I notice is that on a lot of auctions, the number of bids are higher than what the 'winning price' should indicate. Why is that?

Can you see who is the 'leading bidder' at any moment?
(Several such sites have been accused of fake 'bids' in the past, to keep an auction running)

Posted on May 15, 2012, 3:49 AM

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A quick tip...

The same idea has been around for a few years, mostly for sites that sell popular consumer electronics like iPads and digital cameras.

I don't know precisely how they work, but think of them like Amway- not technically illegal, but definitely questionable and not something you want to get mixed up in.

The "popular" ones are the places that hype the fact that people have "won" high-dollar items, like an iPad for $68, or whatever.

Of course, $68 is far below cost, to say nothing of retail. These companies are not giving away iPads out of the goodness of their hearts. The money the lose from the below-cost sales is made up elsewhere. It has to be, else they wouldn't stay in business.

That makeup cash, of course, comes from the people that don't win. And no one generally cares much, since there's always plenty of "bidders", each of whom only loses a few cents or a buck or two in exchange for the chance to 'win' the item. If that sounds a lot like gambling, congratulations, that's almost exactly what it is.

And, like gambling in a casino, for every one winner, the vast majority lose.

Personally, I would not even consider trying it. I get the impression most participants play it for the game aspect, rather than using it as a way to get a single item cheap.

If you want a nice marker for a good price, the various classified pages are chock full of 'em, as is eBay. Buy from the community if you can.

Doc.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 3:53 AM

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Markerbids & TechPB

by Andrew

Hey, I'm Andrew. I'm a mod at TechPB, but not affiliated in any way with Markerbids. That's Mike's baby, and he does that on the side.

As for the guns, unless otherwise noted (like if it specifically states it's a used gun), they are brand new, legit guns or whatever is being auctioned. As far as I remember, he has a dealer account with some people, but has to pay full price anyways, because he's not selling them at MAP.

As for the site itself, I have no interest in using it. Regardless of opinions about sites like that, it is a legit business, and if it says you won a brand new (insert gun here), then that's what you'll get.

They have a forum, and you can see all the winners showing off the stuff here:http://markerbidsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?6-Winners-Circle

Posted on May 15, 2012, 9:46 AM

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Might be legit, but it's not an "Auction" as much as a Slot Machine

Think of it, a whole bunch of people putting quarters into a room full of slot machines, and every once in a while one machine Pays Off with a lot of screaming and shouting, bells and flashing lights.

But at the end of the day, the house makes a lot of money. It's hard coded into the odds of the machines.

Even if the "winner" gets to buy a $500 item for $20, there were another 600 people that paid $1 each for a chance to buy it - and the item only cost the house $250 wholesale. Even after they pay for the website and bandwidth and other incidentals, they've still cleared a clean $300 to $400.

And as someone said, Shill Bidding is an easy way to whip up a fervor and inflate the price - or in this case, induce more people into placing bids at $1 each.

Even if you "Lose" and the Shill Bidder ends up being the "winning" bidder it's a left-hand, right-hand thing. Handwavium makes it go away, and you put the item back into the pool to sell later.

If you went there to have fun playing the slot machine, more power to you. But if you went there to get a proper deal on the marker, RUN.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 10:28 AM

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Re: Might be legit, but it's not an "Auction" as much as a Slot Machine

by Anonymous Coward

I agree that it's pretty much gambling, and I don't have any interest in using the site. I was just saying that while it is a gamble to use a site like that, there's no underhandedness going on. There's no fake bidders, all the merch is legit, etc. So, in the end, it's up to whoever wants to take that risk, but they take the same risk as every other bidder.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 12:20 PM

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There is "underhandedness going on"...

by Anonymous Coward

Every time he sells bid packages by auction or in conjunction with something else, or gives them away (all of which has happened).

It's as bad as fake bids made by a bot. Same result. The more bids he gives away the more real money gets spent on buying bids to compete.

The whole thing should be illegal. It screws over the majority to the benefit of a few and the site owners. A disgusting business practice feeding off the hope and dreams of many young paintballers who don't have the money or sense to stay away.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 4:03 PM

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A little more info..

by P0E

Mike Phillips operates a youtube channel and more recently a popular paintball forum. He has a very large teenage fanbase that is quite fanatical. He started the penny auction site "MarkerBids.com" last year to capitalize on this fanbase after the forum and youtube channel didn't bring in enough ad revenue. He got the idea from another paintball penny auction he helped discredit coincidentally just prior to launch of Markerbids.

Google the term "penny auction". You'll notice it's NOT AN AUCTION. The business model was started to exploit gambling law loopholes which your elected officials are presently trying to close.

As stated in other posts, Mike makes money on the sale of bids. He typically purchases the item at MSRP and that item is then sold for upwards of 90% MSRP. Due to the 100:1 ratio of bid income to 'win' price... Mike therefore gets to pocket upwards of 8x of the MSRP minus the original cost of the item. Since you can't purchase bids on the fly, everyone will purchase too many. This is additional income that everyone likes to ignore.

He states there are no 'bots' that artificially drive up the price nor do 'autobids' get preferential treatment as other sites have been caught employing. Unfortunately there's no way to tell. They also use the 'free' bid scam to artificially drive up bids.

Winners receive incentives to post youtube videos of the product to validate the site. As you can tell from the videos and forum posts, most of these gamblers are under the age of 18.

He correctly states in the "About Markerbids" FAQ that the gambling regulatory agencies do not consider this gambling at this time. You can legally gamble for paintball gear using this site. Just be aware that GAMBLING (and not participating in an auction) is what you're doing.

I tried it a few times because my kid's friends were using it and of course 'monkey-see'. Those kids were using the parent's credit/check card behind their back knowing it was never checked. Luckily I knew their account names and notified the parents. One kid had already spent over $4k in six months! Didn't even win anything.

If you use it, please tell us your experience.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 9:06 PM

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TWB 6/18/2012 ... 10th Anniversary

So does anyone have any good ideas to celebrate doc's 10th anniversary of the comic?

Posted on May 14, 2012, 5:49 AM

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Wedding anniversaries as a comparison...

by Nighthawke

10th Anniversary Traditional Gift:
Tin or aluminum. The pliability of tin and aluminum is a symbol of how a successful marriage needs to be flexible and durable and how it can be bent without being broken.

10th Anniversary Contemporary/Modern Gift:
Diamond jewelry. A marriage that lasts ten years is as durable and beautiful as a diamond.

10th Anniversary Gemstone:
Diamond jewelry or blue sapphire.

10th Anniversary Color:
Silver or blue.

10th Anniversary Flower:
Daffodil. Trumpet-shaped daffodils represent joy, cheerfulness, and happiness.

Perhaps some blu anno barrels or freak adapters... I sure ain't going to foot for any diamonds!

Posted on May 14, 2012, 6:14 AM

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Hopper...

by Snowtroll

Made from an old tin can and decorated with daffodils...

Posted on May 14, 2012, 10:43 AM

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Re: Wedding anniversaries as a comparison...

by CF

> 10th Anniversary Traditional Gift:
> Tin or aluminum. The pliability of tin and aluminum is a symbol of how a successful marriage needs to be flexible and durable and how it can be bent without being broken.

> 10th Anniversary Contemporary/Modern Gift:
> Diamond jewelry. A marriage that lasts ten years is as durable and beautiful as a diamond.

And that right there is a Sad F***in' Comment on the state of the institution....

Posted on May 14, 2012, 11:54 AM

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Aluminum

by Danny Beans

It helps a little if you remember that aluminum used to be considered a precious metal.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 6:52 AM

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uhhh

How about Doc offer a free one hours worth of machining (with purchase of 500 hours or more) to all the Guild regulars! :D

Posted on May 14, 2012, 6:41 PM

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TWB's 10th......

by Ketira

I was hoping to have my website up by then, and put up a nice graphic (not animated; I'm not that good) for the occasion.

What I want to know is: what will DocN be doing?

Posted on May 15, 2012, 5:06 AM

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two blonds [nt]

well, here's hope'in ...

Posted on May 15, 2012, 6:53 PM

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TWB 5/14/12

by Torinir

Looks like Tawny's eating some world-class humble pie right about now. >:D

Posted on May 14, 2012, 1:55 AM

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TWB 5/14/12

One three-course meal of Crow, coming up!

Posted on May 14, 2012, 2:24 AM

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Go, Pirta, go! (n/t)

by Hallan

Posted on May 14, 2012, 2:45 AM

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Long Way 'Round

I love it. Her response to that ultimate question, "What would DOC do?" was to run in the opposite direction, draw her away from the flag, and run for victory.

Speed kills, Tawny. Speed kills.

Posted on May 14, 2012, 5:02 AM

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Been there, Done that...

by Nighthawke

Zapped 5 with 6 rounds expended, as the end result.

Not bad for a commando-rigged 007...

Posted on May 14, 2012, 6:06 AM

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Well, Pirta did know...

by Torinir

that Tawny was very aggressive and was prone to being showy. Tawny wanted to end that match up with a hit, rather than with a flag capture to "drive the lesson home". Of course, no plan survives first contact. :P

Posted on May 14, 2012, 5:27 PM

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Finally, an update...

by Urban Werebear

I... am done with this car. I have tried every damn thing I can to get it to work, and nothing. Six weeks now, and I've been able to drive it for two.

Since the last post, I have swapped out the starter (again) and the battery (also again), pulled off the serpentine belt and made sure everything would turn (it all did) and still nothing.

Tomorrow, I am calling the dealer and telling him to come get the car and send the purchase price back to the finance company. If he won't do that, I'm calling the finance company and telling them to come get it, as I am not about to pay for something that doesn't work. Either way, I'm also calling and canceling the insurance. And I'm still gonna owe the finance company about $1500 for tax, title, and licence.

Seriously, my only other option at this point is to do something really stupid, like drop a tree on the damn thing. Legal Assistance says, "We don't deal with problems like that. Call Consumer Protection." Consumer Protection says, "We don't handle claims related to cars. Call the Department of Transportation." The DOT says, "You bought it as-is. You're screwed."

So, I'm done. Done with the migraines, the churning guts, the lost sleep. However, the two-hour walks home are just starting. Happy, happy, joy, joy.

Posted on May 13, 2012, 3:08 PM

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I hate to say it, but...

by Ketira

...consider this a lesson learned. hug It's a hard lesson, but one that everyone (even me!) has had to learn at one time or another.

Now, however, I'm going to give you what I'd do in this situation. (Besides have my brother & Dad look over the car, & both of them say it's kaput.)

1. Call Legal Assistance back and ask for a Lawyer who handles such things. Be polite but firm about it, and don't take "we don't have one" for an answer. Insist on getting at least a phone # of one who does take such cases. (Go over their heads if you have to and again: Polite but Firm.)

2. Once you've got that, meet up with said lawyer and not only tell him/her what you've told us, but don't forget to bring all the paperwork with you. Lawyers often find things we non-lawyers miss.

3. Listen to what s/he advises, and take notes. Some of these lawyers talk so fast that you may miss a thing or three. Ask questions over what you don't quite understand.

I can see it's going to be hard on you for a while, and I wish you Luck. You're not the only one, btw; I have retained my own lawyer to go up against the government. I'm applying for disability, and I am not backing down 'til I get it.

Posted on May 14, 2012, 4:14 AM

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dead car

has anyone check the chain of the car do to the age of the car it may have slipped or snapped. if the timing chain has snapped the card will sound like it trying to run..ie gas and spark will be fine but it wont turn over..had that happen to my old 98 dodge..the belt broke at a stop light..had to tow it and replaced. if the body is good on the car you do have a few options..take the car to engine rebuild shop. if the damage is not to bad the bill may not be that high. the other option if your stuck with the car is to by a buy a new crate engine. it wont be cheap out but you know the engin will last till you pay the car off or till the car rust out.

Posted on May 14, 2012, 8:26 AM

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dead car

by Urban Werebear

At this point, I don't have the cash for anything. The best I can do for now is to MAYBE get it to a mechanic and find out what's wrong with it. I'm not even sure I can afford that.

Posted on May 14, 2012, 10:03 AM

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Do NOT stop payments or the insurance till you consult a LAWYER.

You signed a contract, you don't want to breach it lightly and make things a lot worse. FIRST STEP, consult a local Lawyer so you don't just dig the hole deeper.

Don't breach the contract by non-payment, or having no tags or insurance on it, till you do. You might be able to save money by parking the car off-street and getting the registration and insurance suspended to "Non-Operational" status.

Sometimes, just telling the Seller that you've got a good lawyer you're talking to and "Exploring all your options..." and dropping their name can get you a lot more cooperation - now he knows you aren't going to just roll over and give up easily.

If you are having huge mechanical problems with the car, get it inspected for hidden or concealed damage - a good mechanic can tell real fast if that car was involved in a flood, or was in a massive wreck and not fixed properly.

Flood cars will run well for a few months till all the corrosion hits the electrical system - then it'll cost far more than it's worth to fix it right.

And he can probably diagnose exactly what's wrong at the same time if you have to keep it and fix it - even if it take a while to get the money together.

Did the original seller present a CARFAX report on the car? Note: they can get fooled too, you have to get it inspected by a good mechanic who knows what to look for.

There are people who specialize in buying salvage totalled cars from the wreckers, fixing them up cosmetically (but not properly), swapping the VIN Number with another car that never got the title branded or "Laundering" the title when necessary through another state so it isn't branded "SALVAGE" anymore, then flipping them at a Used Car Lot or a private party sale.

You might be able to get the sales contract voided if they misrepresented the car and/or concealed material facts about it's condition and history.

And your car insurance is usually voided if the car has been salvaged, they won't write the policy if they know - the car could split in two going down the freeway and spit 5 or 6 people out on the pavement at 75 MPH into oncoming traffic, and they don't want any part of that liability...

Posted on May 14, 2012, 11:21 AM

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Getting one, maybe...

by Urban Werebear

I talked to someone else at the DOT today, and he says I have a good chance of getting the finance company paid off, and recommended a legal firm. I'm going to be talking to them in the morning. I'm also (somehow) getting the car to a third-party mechanic to find the problem and document it for the complaint I'm filing with the DOT.

The dealer did not offer a CARFAX. The car is listed as previously titled in Illinois, and has repaired cosmetic damage. Whether the damage goes deeper is another question; I didn't see anything obvious when I was under it replacing the starter. Admittedly, I wasn't looking, either, and I couldn't get very far under it.

The car is listed as having been on the lot since September of last year, so I'm figuring it probably isn't flood damage. Collision damage, possibly; severe mechanical damage is also possible.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 1:39 AM

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google your car vin and see if anything come up.

if you have a friend that can run your car in the carfax service it give you some info.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 2:55 AM

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'As is'?

by Snowtroll

Did the contract specify 'as is'?

If so, you can forget it.
That's a HUGE 'buyer beware' flag and tells you that you have NO CHANCE in a certain hot place to get your money back.
The only maybe is if you can prove that they doctored it up so that it would fool even an experienced mechanic, and frankly even that is a slim chance.

your options depends entirely on how much money you have left:
1. Have it inspected by a GOOD mechanic for collision or water damage, and if 'clean' repair or replace the engine.
2. Chop it oup for parts and sell online.
3. Sell to a breakers yard, if you can find anyone interested in your car and is willing to collect.

Posted on May 14, 2012, 1:09 PM

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Yep, as is. However...

by Urban Werebear

... according to the person at the DOT who actually knows what he's doing, even an "as-is" purchase contract comes with the expectation of a properly working vehicle, or at least only minor glitches, as opposed to the thirteen days of operation out of six weeks of ownership I got. In other words, the dealer violated the spirit of the contract and therefore should have to remedy the situation.

I'm taking it to a third-party mechanic tomor- I mean later this morning for a full inspection and documentation I can attach to the complaint I'm filing with the DOT.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 1:51 AM

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Wouldn't bet on it...

by Snowtroll

'As-is' contracts are usually used to sell of 'restoration objects' or cars that will be broken up as parts.

Any driveability, roadworthiness or 'fitness for purpose' is up to the buyer to assess.

An 'expectation' is worth nothing unless it's in written form.

DOT?
Department Of Transportation?
Didn't know they were a 'Consumer Protection Agency'...

If the seller claims that the car was sold with the 'understanding that the car was to be used as a parts donor' any claims to 'expectations' goes straight out the side window.

Just warning you.
Don't want to see you end up having to pay the seller's legal costs if worse comes to happen.

Me?
Bought 2 used cars from dealers, two from private sellers.
Of course, with the first two, I got 3month warranties, and on the last two... I knew what to look for. Even brought OBD-II scanner for use under the test drive. (A USB-based one that you hook up to a small laptop is cheap) Other tools are flashlight and a Voltmeter.

While I'm not a trained mechanic, I know enough to spot a lot of 'problems' and ways to hide them.
Steam-cleaned engine? stay away!
Brand new tires? wanna bet something is wrong with the alignment?
Engine already warm when you come to test drive? Drive away...
(Probably doesn't start easily when cold)
Sometimes, just going down on your knees and sighting along the lines of the car can reveal problems.
One car I tried felt 'too sporty'... I suspected that the ICU had been 're-chipped' at some time in the past. (The registration listed the stock displacement and power, so double the reason to stay away. Didn't want to end up being the schmuck who had to pay the tax of the extra HPs. The other reason was that it wears the engine faster.)

Posted on May 15, 2012, 4:14 AM

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Some states (probably provinces too) the DOT does have leverage

In California the DOT and Department of Motor Vehicles have leverage over car dealers and repair shops, and I'm betting it's the same in varying degrees across the continent - because they license the dealerships to buy and sell cars and also issue individual professional licenses to the people who work there.

A lot of the Title and Registration paperwork you file is "Under penalty of Perjury" without a whole lot of double-checking unless there is a problem, and they want to have a way to punish.

And they license the auto repair shops to operate and the people working there for special things like smog machine operations.

In both cases (sales and repairs) it's way too easy to be crooked if the rubes don't know what to watch for. So they do the watching. To the point of test buys and sales, see if the car dealer will buy the car with obvious problems, cover them up, and pass them off to the next guy as a Perfect Car, "and here's the Carfax that shows no issues..." Yeah, because he swapped the VIN with another wreck.

Mechanics, the CA DMV Bureau of Automotive Repair has a whole fleet of Bait Cars that are in absolutely perfect driving condition except for one induced problem (like a set of bad sparkplugs) then they take one in to a suspect shop and see what they are told and sold.

If the shop finds the bad sparkplugs, sell you a new set, don't try to sell you cap and rotor and plug wires because "they look bad..." when they are fine, hand you your old parts back (and the secret marks show they are in fact the right set of old plugs...), and charge a proper price for the labor and materials, they Pass.

It's illegal to oversell unnecessary repairs, and even more so if the shop says they put on a new starter and didn't. They handed you "the old part" that was a worn out core the rebuilders trashed as too far gone...

You make a habit of ripping off consumers, selling wrecked and repaired cars with dummied-up titles, charging for repairs and parts not actually done, cheating on smog inspections, certifying commercial truck & school bus condition and repairs, etc., you end up CLOSED because you don't have operating licenses anymore.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 10:13 AM

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Who's the recommended anno shops these days?

by Hans

Somebody I know needs to get some change machine parts re-annoed, not sure who to suggest these days for anodizing. PK still do small batches? Anybody else worth looking into?

-Hans

Posted on May 13, 2012, 6:43 AM

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Rainman229 over on MCB still does afaik.

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/rainmans-custom-corner/

Posted on May 13, 2012, 12:00 PM

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Tourny Players.

Ok I am going to sound like an idiot here but I have never played paintball ( really want to but the fields are either miles away and/or none of my mates will go with me), but can someone please tell my why tournement players are (for use of a better word) looked down upon, I love reading the webcomic and have now learnt a lot about paintball and the terminology thanks to Doc ( I think I am ready for my own mallet :D ) but I don't get a lot of the "in-jokes" (jokes about different markers,equipment etc).

Meow for now

Madcat.

Posted on May 13, 2012, 4:52 AM

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Re: Tourny Players.

by saintnoir

there one of the many flavors of arsehat.ive hung out with some of the actual pro players laid back bunch of guys that understand how to dial it down with rentals.then you get the wannabes they've done one maybe two tournies and are full of there own egos,ramping,bunkering and acting like the walkon rental game is world cup

Posted on May 13, 2012, 4:52 PM

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Basically, it's all attitude

by Hans

A while back, the 'industry' tried to push this overall image that tournament players were the only ones that mattered, and they also tried to push an over the top badass attitude as the way to be part of it all. Oh, and winning was the only acceptable solution to a game.

Unfortunately, it kinda worked. So you had all sorts of knuckleheads with little to no talent, but a whole lot of attitude. The result was rampant cheating, trigger abuse, and nasty little snotnosed pricks running around with far more money than brains. The would go into a walk-on game dumping cases of paint onto the first time players with barely working rentals. Then they'd tell you how awesome they were because of it.

Aaaaaaaaand... that's about the time and reason I stopped playing. So I can't say what's been going on with the paintball world in the intervening 5 years or so. From what I hear it's taken a massive downturn, color me surprised.

-Hans

Posted on May 13, 2012, 6:58 PM

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well....

What they ^ said:

For me, its the attitude that "hans" said. One of my fist times playing was an (now classic) example of tournament wannabee regulars with matching jerseys and cute (read; "not") nick names.

We (i) got tore - the - fuck - up.

If i had pictures your jaw would drop.

But also I don't enjoy that style of play ether, its just too much for me.

Posted on May 13, 2012, 8:00 PM

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Image, mostly.

Its kind of a hold over from when paintball was just being recognized by the rest of the world. At the time, paintball and the industry at large was making a big deal of paintball being the next Extreme Sport of Winners who Win. It worked, but not in the way the industry was hoping. More than a few teams picked up a 'Win at all costs' mentality...and then the cheating started.
More recently, its been the proliferation of mid-range electros in the hands of rookies and first timers. "If you look like a pro, and talk like a pro, and walk like a pro, you're a pro, right?"
Theres no one thing to point at and say 'This is why tourney guys are scoffed at', its more a conglomeration of appearance, attitude, and a lack of sportsmanship...at least from what I have experienced.

Posted on May 13, 2012, 9:12 PM

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Some clarification...

While I try not to put a deliberate "anti tourney" vibe into the comic, I do tend to 'default' to woodsball. I started playing in the woods (inflatable bunkers wouldn't be invented for years) and even today, 98% of all play in the state is still woodsball.

So when I have the guys (and ladies) hit the field, my first thought tends to be "woods". Like they say, write what you know.

Jerks in general can be found on any field- the guys' trip to that outlaw field last year contained more than a few grains of truth that I personally experienced. Yes, I've written plenty of "tourney players wipe" jokes, but I have to admit I've seen my fair share of woods players wiping as well.

As others noted above, some people are kind of sour on tourney players because of the "wannabes"- the kids who buy whatever the latest marker is, buy a full set of matching jerseys, pants and mask, and bring multiple cases of paint each weekend and try like hell to shoot every ball by the end of the day.

And that's fine, actually. More power to 'em, and more than a few small fields have been kept open by those kids buying $200 in paint and air a weekend. The bulk of the problem comes when the tourney-wannabes get mixed in with fresh newbies. The kind that are still trying to figure out how to shoot and aim the gun when the TWIB comes by, hits him five times and jogs past to go light up his buddies.

I have seen far too many enthusiastic new players never come back- or even quit after just a couple of games- because some jerkwad "regular" hit him multiple times because he didn't call himself out quickly enough (or even didn't know the proper procedure) or they were always put on the side with all the newbies, facing the all-regulars 'team', or whatever.

There's a semi-famous old saying, that goes something like; if your opponent doesn't walk off the field eagerly anticipating the next game, then you've failed as a player.

It's kind of harsh- even the best player can't control everything- sometimes that magic ball wacks the guy in the groin, or he just can't take that emotional whipsaw of thinking he's got the drop on some guy, when you pop out of nowhere and tag him in the ear.

But the sentiment is a good one. It's a version of the golden rule- treat the other guy how you would like to be treated.

When I ran a field, I didn't play much, but when I did, I'd often step down my armament, going out with a pump (I loved my junk-box Sniper) or only carrying what was in the hopper. With new guys, sometimes I'd deliberately leave a foot hanging out, or spend just a little too much time looking around the side of the bunker.

I'm not saying I was a great player- against the more experienced players I was only adequate (and I say "was" because I haven't played in at least three years) but I'll tell you what: Let some 14 year old tag one of the owners of the field? He'll not only come back next weekend, but he'll buy himself a gun and bring his buddies too.

Anyway, part of the reason I have the girls out right now, is to get some tourney time in the strip. It's been a few years since we've even seen an airball bunker, and I've never done any kind of a detailed tourney storyline.

I'm not "against" tourneys or tourney players- back in the day, I fully intended to show about 50-50 woods and tourney in the strip. Check the old cast page- Rainy and Snowshoe, some of the oldest characters, were meant from the beginning to be regular tourney players. Rainy, in fact, was supposed to be the he's-kind-of-a-jerk TWIB, but I never really got around to giving him a full-on storyline to flesh that out.

Doc.

Posted on May 14, 2012, 3:24 AM

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I haven't seen that attitude in 8+ years

by jkeyser14

Around here the fields all have about 10 courses. On practice days (Sundays and somethe week days for tournament teams) the tournament players are all playing other teams on the tournament fields. There's normally 3-4 psp regulation fields with pits that teams can use with no supervision. They are responsible for taking care of themselves. Around hereon the tourney players don't want to walk on with rec players because they want to practice against the best teams they can. They also want to play the style of the game that they compete in. Not to mention that being a jerk is a quick way to get banned from fields here or lose a sponsorship.

Posted on May 14, 2012, 2:58 PM

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First Game on the Morrow

by Ross

And what better way to spend the night than to binge read the webcomic that got me interested in the sport in the first place? I think the crew has taught me the basics, now all that's left to do is to get out there and take my first hit. At least the refs won't be having to use the duct tape on /one/ newbie.

I guess I'll be entering the field as one of those guys who put way too much thought into what he's doing, but I'm going to have fun with it. Thanks, Doc. You've really made a good thing here. Wish me luck!

Posted on May 12, 2012, 7:12 PM

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Let us know how it goes!

Hopefully your day goes well.

My first day wasn't the best, and in retrospect, on a pretty bad field (the "neutral area" was literally almost in the middle of the field- I'm not kidding- and there were no chronographs. I could also add that there were no barrel plugs, but back then, they were new and really only a few fields down in the states had even heard of them.)

I'm pretty sure I got no "kills"- as it was called at the time- and went through at least two full boxes of California Magnum (200 rounds per box) that cost something like $20 each. Maybe $25, I can't recall for sure.

Today, most fields- organized ones- are generally run much better, but there's still more than a few Karl's Kombat Kingdoms out there...

Actually, the worst thing I keep hearing about is TWIBs- tourney wanna-bes. The field puts the "regulars" all on one side ("Hey ref, we all want to play together!") and puts most or all the newbies and first-timers on the other side. So one side has a bunch of kids who don't even know where the flag stations are yet, who are trying to make their 200-round allotment last as many games as they can, against the kids with the $1000 guns, who brought three cases of paint each, and who are trying to "practice for a tournament".

Some fields keep 'em in line, some don't.

Anyway, just remember your goggles and your barrel plug, and to enjoy yourself. It's all in good fun.

Doc.

Posted on May 13, 2012, 1:51 AM

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Had a heck of a Good Time

by Ross

Perhaps I'm just naturally over-cheery, but it went- from what I could tell- quite well. I've got my fair share of bruises to show for it at least!

Overcast Mothers Day with a chance of rain and high humidity had about twenty - thirty players thoughout the day, ranging from obvious-expert who darted about the field dodging fire lanes and tapping people out with his pistol, to AK-silicon grip self-proclaimed 'badass' who made a big deal out of every out he made, (no one felt any shame in hitting him though, as his idea of baggy clothing was a camo patterned wifebeater) to pretty much the full spectrum of players inbetween.

The field itself had a wide variety of play areas, more in the style of what seems to be the southern US's field, more "junkyard bunker ball" than woods or air. Little towns of plywood shacks with churchtowers and stuff makes for an interesting game. The staff was good, splitting up the teams fairly evenly- I took my fair share of ridiculous outs but got in some spectacular hits myself. Ended up buying a mask partway through the day as the rental's fogging was not helping my survival rate, and told the guy at the counter that I'd consider it a devotion to the sport. He gave me a pass to a free day on the field.

I'm going to buy a marker at some point though. My rental's idea of a good time was to fire twelve balls in a second and then jam, burning through a tank of air in five games. I switched it out. I didn't even know that it was possible for a 98 Rental to burst fire.

But yeah. It was a serious lot of fun, a decent first experience, and I'll be back. When winning is just an side note to actually playing the game, it seems to balance a lot better with the day.

Posted on May 14, 2012, 1:07 PM

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cool

Nice to hear that you got some good outs, wen I first started I would go game upon game without any, hehe

.
Know what type of "Marker" to get? Sounds like you enjoyed shooting allot, so I'm thinking you might like something electro with compressed air. Or are you going to go the Tippmann rout?

IDN

Posted on May 14, 2012, 6:37 PM

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Something Reliable

by Ross

I've been looking around, and I'll probably go Tippmann. It seems to me like the best option that would fit my budget would be the A5- sturdy, durable, and capable of taking and giving a beating, as it is. It looks like there's also mods that exist that can bring it up to electro if I decide to go that route. As for now, I'll stick to the field rentals for a good few games.

And the twelve BPS rate was a tank venting error- I'm not shooting quite that fast stock right out of the gate! Heh.

(As for "Marker" over "Gun", I've kind of fallen into the alternative-name habit after running a few games of Humans Vs. Zombies. Some people can get pretty worked up if you call Nerf a Gun, calling it a Blaster tends to circumnavigate a bit of that.)

Any advice on the rank beginner purchasing front?

Posted on May 15, 2012, 7:49 AM

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I'm no expert

A-5 is prolly fine, I herd years ago about a sprocket in the feed that would eventually tear its self apart in the summer and snap into pieces in the winter. But That's prolly a fixed problem by now. I have an A-5, Ive used it never mater-a-fact. Mostly cause I like my old pump.

My sister plays ZVH in Michigan, her "boyfriend" sort-a runs the games. Ive been wanting to build a custom nerf blaster for some time, but I don't have the correct tools yet.

...//Any advice on the rank beginner purchasing front?/...

I'm not sure what you mean exactly. But if you are referring to prices of tanks and gear, well, you can get good deals on tanks @ ebay. I might even be able to sell you my unused A-5 now that I think of it.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 7:06 PM

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Good luck!

by Robin Bobcat

Tme secret is to be able to alternate between moving very fast and making yourself very small. Don't charge in, let the more experienced folks show you where the pints of contention are gonna be, and where to run.

Also: Hydrate. If you're not stopping to pee every two hours, you're not drinking enough.

Oh, and have fun. The only goal of the game is to come out with a big ol' grin on yer muzzle, so play accordingly.

Posted on May 14, 2012, 2:00 AM

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Pics of F-16 in Red, White and Blue...

by Snowtroll

http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/05/11/nyheter/innenriks/flyshow/21552050/

Don't worry about the text further down the page.
That's just about the upcoming 100year celebration of the RNoAF later this year.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 1:48 PM

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Pretty!

I really dig that paint job. Would love to see the video footage that they're shooting there.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 2:13 PM

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Digging it too...

by Kiolia

And boy, but that's just a great-looking plane.

Posted on May 13, 2012, 3:47 AM

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There was a F-16 in that pic?

by S7G

All I saw was the ramp of a totally awesome C-130!

P-3

Posted on May 11, 2012, 8:34 PM

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You noticed? ;-)

by Snowtroll

If you like the C-130, have you read 'B-Team'?

http://thesilvercoyote.net/stories/B-TeamTOC.html

Nope, not affiliated, just a fan.

Posted on May 12, 2012, 12:49 AM

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Good flying.

That is some pretty good flying to get that close to a Herc, I mean the turbulence generated by a Herc would make getting that close a whole lot of fun.

Posted on May 12, 2012, 2:12 AM

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15+ years of experience...

by Snowtroll

From what I understand, the Major(his name is visible in at least one picture) has at least 15 years of flying experience.

Also, it probably helps that the F-16 he's flying isn't a completely 'USAF standard' model.
You can see the pod for the brake chute. That supposedly give the plane a bit more stability sideways.
Then there's the stick. From what I've been told, the model used on RNoAF planes has a bit more play, so that you need to move it further to get the same control-surface movement as on a standard plane. (It's because of our long, narrow fjords. Our jets needs to be able to fly into them, not just over them)

Posted on May 12, 2012, 3:45 AM

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Re: Pics of F-16 in Red, White and Blue...

by CF

Nice, but Americans already have red-white-and-blue F-16s:

http://www.afthunderbirds.com/site/ .

Posted on May 12, 2012, 1:58 PM

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But this one looks better... n/t

by Snowtroll

No trouble...

Posted on May 13, 2012, 11:14 PM

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More pictures...

by Snowtroll

http://www.dagbladet.no/2012/05/12/nyheter/fly/flyshow/f16/pilot/21558970/

Main picture is of the plane, the pilot and the soldier in charge of the paint scheme.

Also as a bonus, a few pictures from 'Bernt Balchen Airshow' in Norway, where you can see a F-16 flying formation with a couple of Spitfires in one, and a Catalina in another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernt_Balchen

Posted on May 13, 2012, 11:31 PM

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TWB 05/11/12

by Kitkun

Playing to unusual advantages, nice. It's always fun to see crafty players in action!

Posted on May 11, 2012, 8:19 AM

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Or perhaps...

an iteration of rodger's button initiated an emergency staff recall to the shop via teleport...

And pirta can get angry and throttle him for taking her away right as she was about to shoot tawney.

-Ten

Posted on May 11, 2012, 9:17 AM

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Nah

by Nohbody

While TWB's reality makes some serious digressions from the one us meat sacks live in, the teleporter has limits, and for all the silliness Doc N has been pretty conservative about inventing new powers for the sake of making a plot work.

Besides, that would disrupt the storyline, and make it take longer to finish. As it is, I'd not be surprised if this particular story ultimately winds up bumping up against one of the fall holidays that usually get noticed in-strip.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 2:15 PM

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Where did she go?

by Attic Rat

If Pirta can duplicate the effort she once made under the influence of an air horn, she could win this easily.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 7:36 PM

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where did she go

by russell

I think that she is inside the teepee shaped thing.

I don't see anywhere she could jump to in the immediate area.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 8:31 PM

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Pirta has been taking lessons.

http://www.the-whiteboard.com/autowb349.html

I don't know who's hand that is but I suspect it's Bandits.

Posted on May 12, 2012, 2:30 AM

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Re: Pirta has been taking lessons.

by Sean T

The shaded hand, coupled with the fact that the other guys on the field were Rainy, Shoey, Swampy and Jake...yeah, it's gotta be Bandit.

Posted on May 12, 2012, 1:12 PM

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Oh watching these auctions makes me cry...

I spend more time watching the GL auctions than I should. =/

Lately I've seen a TON of 60's-80's Rockwell, Delta, and Cincinnati shop equipment going for mere fractions of what they cost. Looks like most of it comes from USCG or USN shops. Saw a lathe go for $280, when the original cost was in the tens of thousands.

I know it's a pure gamble with what you buy in these auctions, but I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't be scooping up some of these tools for future refurb projects. They don't make them like this anymore. Besides which, some of this stuff is selling for prices that are barely over scrap value, so it's not like it's risky to buy.

Anyone else watch this stuff and cry? Doc?

Posted on May 11, 2012, 5:39 AM

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What is the web site?

by MephitMark

What auction site do you use?

Posted on May 11, 2012, 8:55 AM

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Website

www.govliquidation.com

They auction just about anything surplus. Keep an eye for lots coming from Navy bases on the coasts and you can find some interesting stuff. Ever wanted your own 2 1/2-ton "Deuce"? You can buy those as well.

90% looks like it needs some TLC, but anyone who would be buying a lot of this already is willing to put that time and effort into it.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 5:10 PM

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Be careful..

by HTRN

Alot of the shop equipment is left outside, and after one or two good hard rains, it's junk. Anytime you see rusty(not the brown patina you get from oxidation and oil, but actual rust) ways, it's generally means that it's had it short of a major overhaul.

Posted on May 14, 2012, 9:52 PM

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At those prices...

Buy a few identical machines and hedge that you'll be able to get one or two working machines out of the deal.

-Ten

Posted on May 11, 2012, 9:19 AM

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If you can not inspect it running ......

by B

that right there lowers the price towards scrap value

up here in the NE machine tools are cheap and plentiful there are certainly dreamers on CL but most times if not a good Bridgport is less then 1k a 13" South Bend lathe also less than 1k with tooling.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 11:12 AM

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I've gotten numb to it...

While I still hate to see a machine go for pennies (which usually means it's going to scrap these days) I've stopped letting it bother me.

A few years ago I'd have lusted after the average GL deal, or seethed with envy when some East Coaster found himself a well-cared-for machine for a pittance, or resented when I saw somebody scrap a machine I'd have paid hundreds for, even a thousand, but which had no local buyer and would have cost a fortune to ship up here.

A couple of years back, a regular on PM tried to sell a large turret lathe. First for a few hundred, then to anyone who'd haul it off- just to see it used rather than broken up- and finally he pulled off a few key parts to sell and had the scrappers come for the rest.

At the time I was actually looking at buying a large turret from a dealer and having it shipped up- the total bill would have been $5000 to $6000.

I've missed a few local deals too, either only hearing about it afterward, or not having the cash to jump on it, or simply having to turn it down because I had no way to haul it and no room to place it. (The same year I got my horizontal, I could have gotten a 24" Gould & Eberhard shaper, with vise and universal table, for $400. Except it weighed somewhere north of 6,000 pounds and would have taken up about the same amount of room as a small car.)

I've gotten a bit numb to it now. In no small part because I have a nice selection of machines now, and I'm completely out of room- I'd need to sell off a machine to make room for any other right now.

The local GovLiquidation has an old Van Norman mill. It's an oddball, with a swivelling head and attachments to do both horizontal and vertical milling. I was told about it, I had my usual moment of machine lust (which is a natural extension of machine porn

) but it's hampered by the fact it uses oddball 5V tooling, which can only take up to 5/8" shank cutters.

I'd have been tempted if I could get it cheap- say $100 to $200- but the bid's up toward $900 now, and will likely close at $1200 or so.

But even if I did get it for $100, where the hell would I put it?

Doc.

Posted on May 12, 2012, 3:03 AM

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all it needs is a week untarped in a lot

by dsergison

and it really can become scrap.

and unfortunately a lot of them do get that sort of treatment.

hows this for a cry. A world class jig borer sitting on truck in the rain.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/machinery-sale-wanted/fs-late-sip-hydroscopic-sitting-truck-rain-244187/

Posted on May 13, 2012, 5:54 PM

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Seasoned

by MSquared

I have watched the GL auctions, and even gone to DRMO (Defense Re-utilization Marketing Office)and bought a few things on occasion, never machinery. You will go to DRMO and find pallet sized boxes full of old computer mice or printer cables stored inside a climate controlled warehouse, and go out to the lot and find a Leblond lathe "seasoning" out in the elements.

makes a guy shed a tear!

Posted on May 14, 2012, 5:41 AM

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Hey this site is pretty neet!

400,000 four hundred THOUSAND pounds? geez...
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=5295894&convertTo=USD

What is a light set for?
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=5302190&convertTo=USD

Oh lookie an "item" - Oooo, wonder what it could be!
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=5298886&convertTo=USD

Posted on May 14, 2012, 8:57 PM

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Light Set

by M Squared

the light set you see is used for illumination inside tents and other structures, one kit is enough to put lights in a GP Large tent, (24X60), as well as some at the door. Basically its a set of drop lights with black out shades on them. 120 volt system, uses regular screw in type bulbs.

Posted on May 15, 2012, 6:01 AM

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Trying to source a speaker

by Renegade_Azzy

Ive got a Logitech mm50 speaker system here that has a blown speaker, the driver and magnet completely separated in the cage. . Numbers on the speaker component itself are 170041-0000, 0628803924, and 536417.

Anyone able to help me find a suitable replacement? Speaker itself is a 44mm wide cone, overall 27mm deep, 41mm between mounting holes, mount is square. For just having two of these, they sound pretty good. Should for a $200 speaker system (I didnt pay that)

Posted on May 10, 2012, 7:25 PM

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Here's a start...

by Ketira

For me, when in doubt - search Amazon. (I wasn't sure what you meant by the system, so that's results from Amazon's search engine.)

I wish you luck, hon....

Posted on May 11, 2012, 12:39 PM

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Yeah.....

by Renegade_Azzy

Kinda did the basic searches, but thanks

Amazon isnt all that great at finding internal components. Im trying to get a spec at least from Logitech, so i can find the place that made them and order one. Or maybe more, they actually sound pretty decent for the size.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 1:01 PM

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Find the right size ohms power response etc - then replace in pairs.

You always replace stereo speaker system drivers in pairs, so they still sound the same. Your ears will tell the difference - you won't know why, but it "won't be right".

Odds are against coming up with an exact match, you just need to get Real Close.

Unless you track down the Asian OEM Supplier that made the raw speaker and they happen to have a box of them in the warehouse, and the odds on that are way long. Even at Logitech, their "warranty" is to toss the bad ones in the trash and give you a new set from current production.

Posted on May 14, 2012, 11:30 AM

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Newark or Digikey. . .

by Maker of Toys

. . . have pretty good parametric search engines, and often have the data sheets with CAD 3-views available for your perusal if you want to compare 4-5 good candidates in greater depth.

Digikey tends to have better prices; Newark's search engine seems to work a little better for me.

If you can get ahold of a PAPER Mouser catalog, they have a pretty comprehensive selection of small drivers IIRC, but I'm not fond of their search tool.

Allied electronics usually is very competitive on price, but finding anyhting on their site is an exercise in frustration; and I don't remember them having a good selection of speakers.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 3:05 PM

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Oh, and the obvious thing.

by Maker of Toys

give logitech a call- quite often you can buy the replacement drivers from a big brand. I've had good luck in the past calling speaker manufacturers for parts even on 5 and 10 year old speakers. . . . but those were actual home stereo units, so YMMV.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 3:10 PM

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Aight, lets see if Doc can help me with this one...

by Snake Eyes

OK, many years ago, before the internet, people like me used to oogle over mail order catalogs for stuff. I used to look thru lots of tactical and police catalogs to get stuff for paintball, or get ideas on equipment I could make or modify. I remember in one of these law enforcement catalogs, they had sold a gun that I can find absolutely no info on anymore, and figured... if anyone knows what im talking about, it might be Doc.
ok, on to the details... I could tell the gun was based on a VM-68/PMI III. And it was designed to shoot arrows. It had what looked like a 7 oz CO2 tank running horizontally under the barrel, and the entire gun was black. If memory serves me correctly, it was sold for 600 bux. Anyone remember this gun?
Snake Eyes

Posted on May 10, 2012, 5:18 PM

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Of course...

You're thinking of the Airrow Stealth. The company has been making air-powered arrow shooters (I'm not sure what else to call them

) for at least twenty years.

Very early models had a big whole-hand "pressure washer" style trigger, that released a huge blast of air, but later ones are a bit more sophisticated. More recently, they started making a barrel for .22 LR rifles that would launch an arrow using a blank cartridge.

The gun was never based off the VM, it just looked that way due to the similar forward/underslung CO2 tanks.

Quick Google... okay, here's a couple examples of the various styles they've made over the years.

Doc.

Posted on May 10, 2012, 5:34 PM

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Re: Of course...

by Snake Eyes

Thx Doc, I knew you'd come thru! Now to get one for the zombie apocalypse!

Posted on May 10, 2012, 9:40 PM

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Recently...

by Pump Scout

There was a picture of someone using one recently at an event somewhere. If I can remember where I saw that, I'll post up either the picture or a link to it.

Ben

Posted on May 11, 2012, 5:33 AM

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Sons of Guns

by InteliWasp

there was a recent episode of SoG that they built a arrow gun.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 12:26 PM

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ooooh......

by Ketira

....where can I get one? Be nice for self-defense as well. is purring at the beautiful gun

Posted on May 11, 2012, 12:44 PM

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something wrong ?

by evermind

there seems to be something wrong with reaching "the-whiteboard" from Europe (at the least) - it's been really impossible to call up (usually "timing out") for the last couple of weeks, and massively terrible for the last 10 days.

Something wrong with any of the cookies or other stuff involved with the new shop ? Connectivity ? Because there seems to be hardly anything about on the forum, which sets me wondering...

I love the site, but right now, it is hit-and-miss to even call up.

Posted on May 10, 2012, 1:44 AM

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Been working fine for me.....

From the UK via Talk Talk Business and BT Internet....

Who's your ISP?

Cheers,

Greebo

Posted on May 10, 2012, 4:25 AM

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would be o2

by evermind

Would be o2, but basically, there was a similar effect last year, when the page could not be called up from our university's (UHH - Hamburg) net. Came down to an "apache" cookie, and has since been resolved, but....

It also applies from other mainstream German nets (Vodafone, T-online are the other major ones I checked )...

Posted on May 10, 2012, 4:29 AM

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Call MI5, the Web Censorship probably messed it up...

This isn't Pirate Bay but that's never stopped them in the past.

But they don't understand that the Web abhors a vacuum, and anything they can do you can circumvent.

Would you like to borrow a few hundred crates of Tea and give them a toss in the Thames perhaps? Sometimes that's the only thing that governments understand.

Posted on May 10, 2012, 7:03 AM

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No no no ;)

It's working UK >>-> USA

It's NOT working Germany >>-> USA

So either the outbound or inbound packets are getting lost...

Have you (the OP) tried a traceroute?

Cheers,

Greebo

Posted on May 11, 2012, 3:04 AM

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well

by evermind

One can track the forum (www.network54.com), but cannot track the "www.the-whiteboard.com"

TraceRoute to 216.137.202.211 [www.the-whiteboard.com]

Hop (ms) (ms) (ms) IP Address Host name
1 0 0 0 8.9.232.73 xe-5-3-0.edge3.dallas1.level3.net

2 11 0 1 4.69.145.126 vlan70.csw2.dallas1.level3.net
3 1 1 0 4.69.151.142 ae-72-72.ebr2.dallas1.level3.net
4 18 24 24 4.69.132.105 ae-2-2.ebr1.denver1.level3.net
5 14 16 24 4.69.151.182 ae-1-100.ebr2.denver1.level3.net
6 51 49 49 4.69.132.53 ae-2-2.ebr2.seattle1.level3.net
7 41 41 41 4.69.147.170 ae-2-52.edge1.seattle3.level3.net
8 40 40 69 4.59.232.62 alaska-comm.edge1.seattle3.level3.net
9 74 77 74 69.162.207.216 xe-0-0-2-mx2.nwc.acsalaska.net
10 86 86 86 69.162.209.130 69-162-209-130.static.acsalaska.net
11 92 92 92 216.152.176.134 6506-1-er-ge-3-4.mtaonline.net
12 Timed out Timed out Timed out -
13 92 91 92 216.137.202.211 mtacegrvplesk03.mtaonline.net

go figure^^

Tracked it a few times now, it's always Hop 12 somewhere inside Alaska

Posted on May 12, 2012, 9:27 AM

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Ok from Sweden

A couple of weeks ago there were some glitches but good now

Posted on May 10, 2012, 12:14 PM

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All is good in Deutschland ( Germany)

I have had no problems with TWB.

Posted on May 10, 2012, 1:33 PM

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Madcat, who's your ISP?

If the OP has tried a few networks and sees problems on them all and you're fine, that is interesting.....

You're not US Forces or similar are you? - i.e. use a US based network from Germany?

Cheers,

Greebo

P.S. did you ever play Delta Force 2? (just guessing from your email address)

Posted on May 11, 2012, 3:15 AM

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Answers.

1) my ISP was with Arcor but now is with Vodafone Germany
2) nope I originally lived in Wales UK, but came to Germany to live with my German Girlfriend, I was never in the Military.
3) yes I did play a lot of DF2 many years ago, should have got a new email address but just couldnt be bothered lol.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 3:19 AM

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Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice...

1) Evermind (the OP) specifically mentions Vodafone as not working, so I'm beginning to wonder if it's his computer (a laptop?) that has a problem...?

3) Just wondering if we ever played DF2 together... I was either "Sparhawk" or "Greebo" back in DF2, and I still play DFX as "TS Greebo" with a Danish clan called "Team Striker"

Cheers,

Greebo

Posted on May 11, 2012, 3:29 AM

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ISP Problems.

It could be an ad-blocker that is giving problems or Peerblock I installed peerblock a while back and had lots of problems viewing websites until I told Peerblock to allow HTTP.

I haven't played DFX as I heard it wasn't that good, after DF2 I went on to play Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory.

When I played DF2 I went under the name "Madcat =DMS=" I was a in a European clan called =DMS= Demonstrating my style, I was usually either a Sniper or a Ninja ( I used to pop up out of nowhere and kill with my knife :D).

Posted on May 11, 2012, 3:35 AM

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It's cool from Holland

by FireFrenzy

Not like, Alaska in winter cool, but pretty bloody cool non the less...

Posted on May 10, 2012, 11:47 PM

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It might be.

If you have a Peerblocker or similar installed check that HTTP is allowed, also check your firewall and AV settings, if you have been viewing TWB fine and then it suddenly went off look back and see what programs you installed and if any settings have been changed, I am with Vodafone in Germany and I also live in Hamburg but have no problems, if you are using the TUHH net to view TWB check that they dont block certain webpages.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 3:37 AM

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depends on the provider

by snark

With o2 (ex-Hansenet) from Germany: almost never works.

With o2 wireless: ok.
When using a different provider (1&1) at the office: ok.

Maybe it's a nameserver problem?

Posted on May 11, 2012, 9:42 AM

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Re: depends on the provider

by evermind

Works very well with o2, whether wireless or landlocked. Traceroute shows the problem is located in Alaska anyway^^

Posted on May 12, 2012, 9:32 AM

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Flashback front

I know Doc has muzzle breaks but I'm looking for like a barrel front but not a long one.
3 to 4" unported. 689 perhaps?

I have the flash back but using it with the muzzle break alone puts the barrel end just at the end of my pump handle. Hahaha.

Austin

Posted on May 9, 2012, 3:24 PM

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Freak kit?

by KevinB

I use one of Doc's flash back with a freak back,

is that the kind of length you are looking for?

K

Posted on May 10, 2012, 4:41 PM

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flashback

Doesn't the flashback itself use freak inserts?.

Posted on May 11, 2012, 7:20 AM

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Sorry I meant a Flashpoint.

by KevinB

I use a flashpoint on the front of a freak.

Very short and stubby.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 4:16 PM

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Re: Sorry I meant a Flashpoint.

Yup. The problem is the flash point doesn't clear my pump handle. I'm worried I might have my finger partially in front of it as I fire.

Posted on May 16, 2012, 7:03 PM

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What Happend to the Strip where Roger finds "The Button"?

by Squirlly

It's gone AWOL and it might be needed to understand the other strips 10 years from now

-Tim

Posted on May 9, 2012, 2:31 PM

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It'll be back...

I just have to catch up.

Doc.

Posted on May 9, 2012, 3:32 PM

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Idea for a new "feature"

rig something up so that somebody can grab copies of different series for "offline" reading.

tag each "series" with the amount of MD you need to be paid (short 3 comic runs would go for say a six pack and if you want one of the longer ones you would need to pay a couple "flats")

this is of course a sidebar to buying the actual BOOKS

Posted on May 10, 2012, 9:46 AM

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Not all that goes online goes into the books.

by Ketira

If you compare the books to what's online, then you may miss out on a lot.

I'll just wait 'til it comes back as well --then I'll hopefully remember to snag that strip.

And yes, DocN, I'm well aware of copyright issues. I keep such strips to help me laugh when I'm on the upswing of my Depression.

Posted on May 12, 2012, 2:31 AM

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And not all that's in the books was seen online....

But it's incentive to get the books- The operational phrase is 'bonus content'. :D

Posted on May 14, 2012, 10:25 AM

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I think I missed out on something...[nt]

Yo dawg! - I herd you like "No Text", so I put a No Text in the Text so you can read No Text while you view no text!

Posted on May 9, 2012, 4:22 PM

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Help identifying this marker

Hey fellas, can anyone ID this marker? A friend sent me the picture and I have no idea what I'm looking at.
Thanks for any help.

[linked image]

Posted on May 9, 2012, 3:37 AM

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Sovereign

Pretty cool classic actually, though a bit overdone in this presentation for my tastes

Posted on May 9, 2012, 4:37 AM

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Yup, it's a Sov

Looks like one of the original series Sovs. Used to have 2 of them myself, wish I could find the last 1 I sold. May not be cutting edge, but when set up right they were really sweet markers.

Posted on May 9, 2012, 7:56 PM

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Can anyone loan me some game cameras?

Does anyone have a game camera or three I can borrow? The cameras that you can strap to a tree and it'll shoot a photo or short series of video (or both) when it senses movement?

A neighbor discovered a dead moose in the woods near his place (and not too far from mine.) We're looking to try to move it, if it's still... you know... towable, but it might not be possible. And even if it were, we're not sure where it could be towed TO...

Chances are he'll probably have to just leave it there and let nature take it's course. We have several dens of coyote quite close (I can hear 'em howl on occasion) and we've had bear in the area before, plus all the smaller critters like marten, mink, weasels, wolverines, possibly even red fox, and so on. Wolves and lynx aren't impossible in this area, but highly unlikely.

Anyway, I figured it might be interesting to strap a game cam or two nearby, to see specifically who does wander by for a quick snack. Ideally, I'd like to put up three, in a rough triangle around the carcass, and at different distances. I could buy the cameras locally, but $100 to $180 each gets kind of expensive, and I'd have no real use for them afterward.

I've been asking around locally, but not many hunters up here use them- baiting is limited and heavily regulated, and cameras are of no use whatsoever in hunting caribou, moose or bison.

So, does anyone have one or more I can borrow for a month or so? I have no idea how long this process might take, but I suspect the bones n' traces will still be catching the occasional passing critters' interest well into July. Bear already pass through on rare occasions to get to the salmon in the river, so I figure they'll be stopping by for a quick sniff for a while.

As I said, ideally I'd like to put up three, but I'll settle for one. Borrowing from one person would be easiest, but if I could borrow one each from three people, that'd work too.

I'm hoping for something that shoots only when it senses movement, has IR lights for shooting in the dark, and the capability to do video would be icing on the cake. I'll supply cards if necessary.

If you'd like to help, drop me an email and we'll make a deal. There is kind of a rush, since it's now no longer covered by snow, and so will start attracting animals any time now.

Thanks.
Doc.

Posted on May 9, 2012, 2:40 AM

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Possible Source

by Latrans

Have you considered asking around some local conservation groups (such as the Fish and Wildlife Services)? I should imagine they'd be interested in seeing what comes by even more than you.

Posted on May 9, 2012, 8:05 AM

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I would also suggest..

by MephitMark

Asking the University or colleges if they would be interested in the project.

Posted on May 9, 2012, 8:57 AM

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I have two of these

by upriver

that I am not currently using... I just have to remember where I put them.

http://www.amazon.com/BUSHNELL-Trophy-Trail-Camera-119435C/dp/B0039UW6KU/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1336684583&sr=8-6

takes AA batteries and uses SD card. Can record stills or video clips... but not both at the same time.

Posted on May 10, 2012, 1:18 PM

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Some Ideas

by BLT

So a quicky Google search on Camera traps and Alaska came up with some youtube videos from this guyhttp://www.alaskabearsandwolves.com/ and it seems he is based out of Homer (but appears to be out of the country at the moment from his webpage) another idea is to check with this guy who is based out of California but probably has contacts all over (I have been reading his blog off and on for quite awhile now):http://cameratrapcodger.blogspot.com/

Posted on May 10, 2012, 10:02 PM

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Anyone got a pic of...?

by Webwolf

That one stock-class marker that Punisher made? The one with the synthetic rifle stock? Fairly certain it was a one-off, but an acquaintance is inquiring with regard to WWII-era replica paintball markers.

Posted on May 8, 2012, 2:47 PM

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punisher's crowdbuster

Posted on May 9, 2012, 3:15 AM

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Awesome, thanks. (n/t)

by Webwolf

Not for Trenching!

Posted on May 9, 2012, 1:04 PM

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