This discussion group is for all you gear-heads, techno-nuts, tinker freaks, backyard airsmiths, engineers, machinists,
miscellaneous do-it-yourselfers and any other mechanically enlightened gadget junkie that enjoys working on paintball equipment.
While we would prefer to keep the topic focused on purely technical matters, please feel free to discuss anything paintball related that may be of interest.
Many questions have popped up repeatedly- They've been archived
for your Tinkering pleasure in both the Frequently-Asked Tinker's (FAT) and the Rat's Nest.

For non-paintball technical discussion, or if you'd like to sell paintball gear, please use one of the link buttons below:

LEGO Paintball?

by Robin Bobcat

So.. Lego Minifigures Series 10 is out...

There is a paintball player figure.

http://minifigures.lego.com/en-us/Bios/Paintball%20Player.aspx



Posted on May 22, 2013, 3:17 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Anybody here a chemist?

by

This looks like something fun to try... happy.gif

[linked image]

(And if the image doesn't show up, it can be found here.)

Clearly it's some kind of very rapid polymerization. The girl didn't look like she was expecting it, or at least wasn't expecting it to be that violent, and it appears to be in a classroom of some sort, so presumably the result isn't horribly toxic or explosive.

Then again, if the teacher knew what was going to happen, it's worth noting that she's not wearing eye protection. Possibly it wasn't supposed to be quite that spectacular?

Anyway, anybody know what happened, and what it was she was mixing? And where I can get some? happy.gif

Doc.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 10:45 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

What would you do with it?

by Deus Machina

Float a cup of part A in a bowl of part B under someone's truck seat? Instant-foam boilermaker.
Would make that dirt road a whole lot more amusing.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 10:59 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Doc see this weeks class room blooper on break???

by

Using natural gas and soap to make flaming bubbles...problem was they were under a sprinkler head and pop it...

Posted on May 21, 2013, 12:29 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

At your service...

by FireFrenzy-MSc

Okay based on visual inspection of the wreckage it seems to be some sort of semi coherent expanding foam... Now this isn't to unusual, that's basically what all the expanded Styrofoam in the world is (only a little more solid)

What i wager happened is this, the girl was pouring some sort of monomer from the top flask (which unfortunately can be most of anything but it'll be something relatively harmless i doubt they'd let you use styrene for something like this) into the flask which contains at least an initiator (although they may have scooped it in with the offhand) and possibly a copolymerization agent.

Whats supposed to happen is probably as follows, it reacts with the initiator and then foams up nicely from the rapid setting with a gas being introduced from somewhere (which might just be the reaction heat since all polymerization are exothermic) and it would fill up the measuring cup with something like expanding isolation foam, which was i bet the consistency they were going for, looks cool and the clean up is easy. I bet however someone made a mistake and either got the WRONG initiator or lost a decimal point somewhere. Going by the excessive rate of reaction i'd say they missed a micro-to-mini translation somewhere and added 1000x recommended dosage of initiator...

Posted on May 21, 2013, 2:44 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I reckon I've done that reaction....

by

... and I'm pretty sure going on the state of the room, such as the smart whiteboard and the tap on the front bench that it's one you can do in high school.
That particular reaction is called Elephant's Toothpaste and can be found in multiple places online.
It's a staple of the chemistry demos at most unis and high schools.
It's a rapid reaction between a saturated solution of potassium iodide (KI) and hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), forming oxygen bubbles.
The foam comes from the detergent put into the solution and the steam coming off indicates the heat of reaction.
You put iodide into the system to form IO-, which catalyses the reaction.

Have fun, Doc happy.gif

Posted on May 21, 2013, 2:58 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

And it starts

by Bill

How many of us are thinking a two part grenade for the next scenario game?

Posted on May 21, 2013, 7:23 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Actually....

by Andrew

I think Doc has been toying with that very idea.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 8:21 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Thats a given! N/T

by Donkey



Posted on May 22, 2013, 6:15 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

That's not the reaction you'd want to use, though...

by

It starts with high-test hydrogen peroxide and iodine and results in lots of pure oxygen. It's also exothermic enough to get steaming hot. Not really something I'd want to have flying at me on a paintball field...

Posted on May 22, 2013, 8:15 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Must have been nearly pure H2O2 or KI from the reaction

by Nighthawke

I just watched Steve Spangler's demo using different ratios and concentrates of Peroxide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2crFb3Z6aSY

Posted on May 22, 2013, 7:25 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Doc...

by Zayden

I could easily see you turning this into some kind of new paint ball themed grenade for a story. Or have Roger do something in one of the labs that creates a new kind of mess for the gang to clean up.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 8:00 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

If Roger and Doc try that the fridge monster will end up with a girl(?)friend N/T

by eddi



Posted on May 21, 2013, 7:57 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Suddenly, Foam. N/T

by

Nomas Textalones.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 8:42 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Anybody here a chemist?

by CF

I am not allowed to refer to this as "scientific bukkake". I stand corrected.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 11:44 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Anybody here a chemist?

by

I don't know about the specific chemical reaction involved, but it does remind me of some of those insulation foams you can get where you mix two parts together, it foams up, and as it expands it also dries out and hardens. Mythbusters has used the stuff for things before, IIRC. Except in this case, it's in a much-too-small container for the expansion...
But yeah..given the reaction, I think she was expecting it to be a much calmer 'overflowing' reaction, rather than a diet-cola/mentos spurt. happy.gif

Posted on May 21, 2013, 12:25 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

...why am I reminded of Demolition Man?

by

That stuff looks like the 'safety foam' in their cars. XD

Posted on May 21, 2013, 10:13 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Practical uses do exist.

by Robert The Addled

they make pre-built kits of this designed for slower release for use in packing materials. If you opened the kit you could get something close to this reaction. At my old job we'd toss one of the packets in a box, break the widget inside, and before it expanded too much set a computer CPU on top of it. Another on top and tape the box shut QUICKLY.

I also once saw a tech show where they demonstrated rapid expanding foam like this for emergency equipment lifts - just not the sort where somebody was trapped and risked further injury.



Posted on May 22, 2013, 5:16 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

It happened again...

by Wolf

Ok, so for those of you who don't know I work for a certian large retail chain who carries a limited (both literaly, and..) well you get the point.
Well yesterday I caught somebody carrying a half loaded VL. Hopper was rattleing. I told the guy he couldn't have that in the store. He said its ok cause the lady said he could since it wasn't loaded. No barrel plug.

He was there to buy one of those disposable tanks. I told him I was sorry but it Was loaded, and adding the tank Would make it Live. I think he was strung out on something cause he left and came back in with the same marker asking where the air tanks are.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 12:08 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

If the local cops have a sense of humor...

by

Call them the next time this bozo shows up.

Actually, I'd talk to and/or arrange to meet with the beat officer for your area today or tomorrow (call the non-emergency number for the station) and see if they've had a problem with PB attacks or vandalism in the area - you might be able to tie the clown to them...

It's either that, or have Doc bring the Mallet.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 12:53 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I would go with

by Donkey

Doc bring the Mallet. It might not work but at least it is entertaining to watch.

Posted on May 22, 2013, 6:12 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Paintballs most Recognizable Sounds...

by Wolf

Youve heard these sounds before. Everyday at the field...

When I say recognizable sounds, what do you think of?

My first sound would have to be the sound of a marker thats just run out of C02.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 11:53 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

sounds

by Robin Bobcat

"AUGH!! ^$%@*^ mother$%@!~!!" - someone taking a ball to the crotch.

The 'purrprprprpp!' of an empty CO2 tank is very distinct.

The 'wssh' of paintballs through tall grass or leaves is good, but not often heard, depending on field.

The 'whup! whup!' of balls hitting inflatables.

The different pitches and sounds of balls hitting boards, pallets, and posts in a 'junkyard' field.

The 'beep!' of the chrony.

The 'ping' of a ball hitting a range target/glass bottle.

Ooh!

WAP "Pfft! Pfft!" - someone getting hit in the mask, right over their mouth.



Posted on May 20, 2013, 12:00 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Happened at emr ghost mountain few years back..

by

Sat night play about 8pm guy took 10 or so shots point blank to the jewels. Guy was in back of the camp zone...my group was at spots one on the camping map. The whole camp zone heard the poor guy scream of pain. Had to sto the game and stretcher the guy out with some ice in the pants.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 6:05 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Happened at emr ghost mountain few years back..

by

Sat night play about 8pm guy took 10 or so shots point blank to the jewels. Guy was in back of the camp zone...my group was at spots one on the camping map. The whole camp zone heard the poor guy scream of pain. Had to sto the game and stretcher the guy out with some ice in the pants.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 6:06 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Chroney Beep...

by Wolf

I hate that sound...

Pop! 300 " Beeeeep " (turn knob) Pop! 296 " Beeeeep " (turn knob) Pop! 290 " Beeeeep " (turn knob) Pop!! 320 " Beeeeep "

320? "BLEEP" you with a "BLEEPING BLEEP" and a Hedge Hog with your " BLEEPING" MOTHER!!!

Posted on May 20, 2013, 8:37 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

...you mean, like...

by tmk

...this? happy.gif

Posted on May 22, 2013, 2:33 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Of course then there's...

by Robin Bobcat

... the one I forgot:

"Three, two, one... Game On!"

Posted on May 21, 2013, 12:20 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

An untimed cocker

by Renegade_Azzy

I used to be able to time, and get my FPS dialed in pretty good, just by sound. But that was a logn time ago, and no more cockers.

But you can really tell when they are working right.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 12:27 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Burst discs, Crownpoint mags...

by hp_lovecraft

Well, recognizable sounds from 20 years ago.
Likewise, the "clink" of guns running siphons. Old Brass Eagle guns were very unique with the hammer-bounce.

But the sound my ears were always trained for: The "ffssspp" of a removed 12gram, or a rattly ammobox.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 1:39 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Paintballs most Recognizable Sounds...

by Warparty

BANG pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh A blown macro line?

PSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the sound of a defective fill nipple at the fill station

Posted on May 20, 2013, 3:58 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Plenty

by

-The best is always a burst-disc gone bad... usually during the lunch break.

-A blowback farting when it runs out of Co2.

-Always was easy to tell the difference between a pump and a semi. Pumps have that hollowness to the report. Semi's tended to bark in the old days, or chuff in the more modern era.

-Hated the sound when somebody took a hit on bare skin.

-then there's the different sounds that different bunkers make. The deep drumming of airball fields or unsupported plywood, a painful sounding 'whack' onto hard plastic culvert or thick wood. Net bunkers were just plain evil, you couldn't hear a damn thing when somebody was shooting at one.







Posted on May 20, 2013, 5:38 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

ATS / tagline guns

by Ken Newell

Nothing like the mechanical, super loud sound of an AT bearing down on someone.



Posted on May 20, 2013, 6:58 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

You forgot

by Mic

The evil cackling from the person unloading the ATS. That too is a very distinct sound. I still get a kick from watching people scurry when I start shooting mine. Nowadays with the LAPCO Dishka Tip, people keep requesting that I get re-chronoed because "...there is NO way that gun can be THAT loud and not shooting hot..." Maybe I should include the sound of jaws dropping as I chrono at 285 or less with that ATS CRACK sound. Evil Grin

Posted on May 21, 2013, 8:34 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

That always pissed me off with the Vector

by Renegade_Azzy

because its loud, it might be hot. Meanwhile, I would tune things down a hair, because I tried to get closer, and think most paint flies better at 270 or so.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 11:57 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

an example video

by Ken Newell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSn84JjAaio

You never see my buddy and I, but you can definitely hear our ATS gear rattling away.

Posted on May 22, 2013, 8:22 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

My favorites.

by Deus Machina

A couple of the guys at the local field had a few personal markers.
One's 'cocker (or Sniper, perhaps) made this extremely quiet 'piff-click.' No idea just how, bet it wasn't all that efficient.
I loved another guy's old Nova. 'Blewp!' The moving barrel was amusing, too.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 10:57 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Heh...

by Robin Bobcat

Local field I used to play at, guy modded a pump with the bell from a bugle. Instead of 'Pop!' it went 'BLAT!'. Very amusing.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 12:18 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Any one get a boom from someone over inflating an air bunker???

by

That would be funny....

Posted on May 21, 2013, 12:32 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Paintballs most Recognizable Sounds...

by

That "Thbbbbbbbbt!" sound of a newly empty tank on a blowback is exactly what I thought of when I read your post title. To me, it IS what paintball sounds like.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 3:49 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Recognizing sounds...

by

I think most of us regulars can recognize certain distinctive marker signatures. The longer you've been playing, the more oddballs you've probably heard, and the more nostalgia you get when you hear it again after a long time.

My old Equalizer, for example, has an odd FACK!-shweeep! sound- it recharges so slowly you can actually hear the dump chamber fill up.

The old 68 Special had had an easily recognizable metallic PANK-PANK-PANK! signature. VM-68s had similar tone with a little less metal- FACK-FACK-FACK!. Automags, the old classics- had a sort of a "foop" noise (with a "ping" if it had a brass or thin stainless barrel) and of course 'Cockers tend to have the two-tone FOONT-clack!

Somebody mentioned the old Brass Eagle guns- my original King Cobra had a sort of a "honk" to it- it fires the ball and the hammer "bounces" to you get a very brief 'burp' immediately after the shot that sounds, if you listen close, like a split-second "out of CO2" burp. So each shot sounds kind of Furp!

The classic WHACK-WHACK-WHACK of a typical cheap blowback, or the somewhat more muted fwack-fwack-fwack of a Tippmann.

The plastic clack of a Splatmaster, the slightly-metallic but muted thuck of a Nelson-based pump...

And who could forget the loud CRACK!-shuck of a Rainmaker, the muted thoop-thoop-thoop of the old Shockers, and the POK-shuck of Blazers.

Doc.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 4:33 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I love the equalizer.....

by Renegade_Azzy

Mine gave me the giggles every time I fired it.

Dont forget the sound of a loudened Vector. That was one of my favorite guns... back when Air America was still around to sponsor us on Carter's Command.

:D

Posted on May 21, 2013, 6:13 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

re:Reconizing sounds...

by swiftblade13

you forgot the fart of a spump (rare but distinctive)


Posted on May 21, 2013, 12:12 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Dry-firing?!

by Yochinaman

Nobody said dry-firing?! Hear millions of these BAK BAK BAK at the staging area or range. So easy to recognize on the field when somebody is out of paint. "Go get'em boys".

-y

Posted on May 21, 2013, 7:30 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

The hollow metallic sound an oil drum makes when hit...

by Surestick

They use them a lot where I used to live, there's something about that sound that's satisfying to shoot at, especially if you know someone is behind it.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 1:45 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Paintballs most Recognizable Sounds...

by Moogie

the "hissssss" of changing 12 grams

Posted on May 22, 2013, 12:06 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

38 Photos from the first day at the new field!

by

After quite a long drought, there is finally a real, live local paintball field again! Point in fact, I'm not sure there's been anything but outlaw available locally since... like... before I started TWB. happy.gif Either that or I drive three hours to Anchorage, or four hours to Wasilla to play- which, unfortunately, I very rarely did.

Anyway, the new place is well-situated right alongside the highway, on six clear acres, and well-provisioned with good rentals (WGP Trilogies on air) and nice amenities (all-day HPA, a Port-O-Potty, covered tables) unlike some previous fields I could mention... (ahem, like mine... happy.gif )

Saturday was the first open day, though not yet the actual "grand" opening- which as it turned out was good, since Saturday dawned uncharacteristically cold and damp. It was about 34F when I left the house:

[linked image]

Huh. Chive really IS everywhere. :0

[linked image]

First, the check-in and staging areas:

[linked image]

[linked image]

And the main field. (Main being the only one ready to use at the moment- there will, as I understand it, eventually be three fields.)

[linked image]

[linked image]

Currently, the main field is over 100 feet wide and some 240 feet long, plenty of room for 20 to 30 players at a time. It's separated from the staging area by about 65-70 feet and a net wall.

[linked image]

So let's see some game play!

... Is that a Tactical Spork?

[linked image]

[linked image]

After just the first game or two, it actually started snowing. (Thankfully briefly.)

[linked image]

[linked image]

It only lasted a few minutes, and shortly thereafter the sun started peeking out- hey, in Alaska, if you don't play in bad weather, well, you don't play much. happy.gif

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

Here's a nice shot of the 'Cocker I built, which included that custom sear I made a few months back:

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

Hey, uh... anybody got a squeegee? happy.gif

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

Tag! Drew takes one for the team!

[linked image]

Coordinated Bunker Rushing:

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

Built-in throat protector.

[linked image]

Either that or his drop-forward needs a shave. happy.gif

Doc.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 2:08 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: 38 Photos from the first day at the new field!

by

"Everything I know about Paintball I learned from Whiteboard."

Clueless bystander question -- One of those pics it looks like there's paint blow back out of the end of the gun? .. Is that a reality or effect of something else?

-Shady.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 3:05 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

"Blow back"...

by

One photo shows paint coming out the front of a gun; in that case, the player chopped a ball in the marker, and subsequent shots blew up as well. Fact of life when trying to accellerate a thin-skinned liquid-filled capsule to over 200MPH in less than 20 milliseconds. happy.gif

Another photo shows what looks like paint coming out the back of a gun. In that case, the player took a hit in the goggles- the incoming ball travelling right down the side of the gun, and hitting his goggle lenses just behind the marker.

Doc.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 3:33 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: "Blow back"...

by

Thanks Doc! I do try to pay attention but I'm worse than a newb. happy.gif

-Shady.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 4:03 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

You very rarely get those kind of photo's...

by Wolf

Usually when somebody snaps a picture of a pb hitting somebody it's already exploded out into a huge splatter.

And the messed out barrel. Its always hard to explain to people why your not shooting straight anymore.

" You try aimming Wolf? "

Posted on May 20, 2013, 11:47 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Hmm, photo experiments this weekend then....

by Bruce

Now I've got the bug to see if I can get some really good HS shots.

One photo I wish I'd taken was of the combined pink and orange mess coming out of my barrel during my first ever game. Perfect hit on the barrel tip by an experienced sniper followed by a barrel break.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 12:32 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Hmm, photo experiments this weekend then....

by

Do people try to hit gun/equipment often? I'd have thought a sort of 'Don't be a Dick' code would be in play.

-Shady.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 4:34 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

People try to hit whatever they can

by

If you leave your barrel hanging out, or your hopper's poking up above your cover, those are perfectly valid targets. And markers are only so precise--if someone's got their marker tucked in close, and you're shooting center-mass (while they're moving, say), it's entirely possible that you'll get a marker hit. Or if you get someone from behind, you can easily get a pack hit or two (unless you're aiming for the back of their heads or something--but there's your "Don't be a dick" code.)

That said, I'm sure that there are some tourney players who will shoot for equipment hits, if the person holding the equipment is wearing a lot of loose clothing that is causing bounces instead of breaks, since the equipment is more likely to provide a hard enough target to break the ball.

I've also heard of players shooting full hoppers that were dropped accidentally by their opponent. Under some tourney rules, those don't count as a hit on the opponent unless the opponent picks the hopper back up. Then it's considered an equipment hit, and they're out.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 5:34 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: People try to hit whatever they can

by

Thanks for the lesson(s) guys! I am even starting to learn the terminology. I may need to go lie down.. wink.gif

-Shady.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 12:10 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I'd always go for equipment.

by Hans

There's a few reasons.

First is that it's among the more exposed targets. You can tuck most of your body behind cover, but your gun has to come out to some degree. Particularly hoppers can end up very exposed.

It's also a solid target, less chance of a bounce.

It's generally visible. To me, to him, and to the ref.

Lastly, with all the nooks and crannies on some gear, it can be both obvious and tricky to wipe.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 6:59 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

sometimes it's all you can hit......

by

I played at one field in Durban, South Africa, that was in some old buildings.

They had a stupid field rule that headshots didn't count as a hit, so most of the time all you could do was an equipment hit.

I forget the name of the field....was about 8 years ago, and I no longer live in South Africa.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 7:55 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Charlie Brown playing paintball

by neocool00

We had a guy when I first started out that was like the Charlie Brown of paintball. We constantly picked on him, not sure why, but it's typically how the games went. I think it started cause he was a known wiper, which was dispised. Anyway, there was this one game where one of my teammates shot about 3-4 shots down his barrel. It was so bad that he couldn't even pull the trigger anymore and spent the next 1/2 hour on the sideline cleaning the marker out. So yes, sometimes it is on purpose. There was another game where said player was squaring off with my brother-in-law and he decided to throw a paint gernade at my brother-in-law. My brother-in-law hit the guy's hand just as the gernade left. A split second sooner and he would have hit it and covered him with...paint check?

Posted on May 22, 2013, 6:16 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: You very rarely get those kind of photo's...

by

I generally try not to aim -- safest place to be is where I am aiming! There's a really good reason I never signed up for paintball! (Losing continuously as laser tag is not as bruising or messy.)


I have seen some gorgeous "just after hit" paintball pics. Art on the field!

(Which isn't to say Doc's weren't awesome - I just kinda forgot to mention that bit when I originally posted.)

-Shady.


Posted on May 20, 2013, 4:32 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Btw, thanks Doc!

by Andrew

Hey, just in case I forgot....

Thanks for comming out, and thanks for the fix on those 2 markers for me. Really appreciate the help and advice, even if I don't agree with you all the time. Hope we can get a large showing of people next Saturday. The weather forecast so far is good.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 9:29 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Payment methods

by

I notice their website states "*PLEASE NOTE, WE ARE AN OUTDOOR FIELD AND CANNOT EXCEPT ANY FORM OF PAYMENT OTHER THEN CASH CURRENTLY.*"

How's the mobile service up there? Seems like they might be well served by something like Squarehttps://squareup.com/) for accepting credit cards.


Posted on May 20, 2013, 10:14 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I wonder what they do there.

by Shalom

I note that their website advertises a "covered stagging area".

I've been wondering about something for a while, though. Doc, you make your living repairing paintball equipment, no? Is there that much of a market for airsmith services in an area that had no paintball fields (until recently) within a three hour trip? It seems to me kinda like having a boat repair shop in Death Valley. Or do you get most of your customers' gear shipped to you?

Posted on May 20, 2013, 9:04 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

jealous

by

Man I wish I could have stayed a few days longer to get in a game. I still owe you a splat or two. That's a sharp looking field.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 12:08 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

WPG Trilogies

by

How did the Trilogies stand up to use as rentals? They look sharp, way better than the ol' 98 Rentals you get at most places, but having had a Trilogy of my own, I found them to be a little... fragile. At that price point, I always figured there where more "noob-proof" options.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 4:15 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Wgp trilogies

by Andrew

We went with trilogies because we wanted to avoid the feeling a lot of people get when using rentals. That being its a lot of fun until people show up with their own gear. Your average 98 can only get 2-3 bps. The trilogies can get 7-8 bps. On my Etek I can average 12-14 if I really get on the trigger. 3 bps is a huge disadvantage when compared to the other types of markers. 7-8 bps falls right in the middle. So someone on rental gear would have an edge over anyone using the lower end tippmans, but would be at a slight disadvantage against anyone using mid to high end markers. Because our field isn't a speedball field and is so large this also helps to compensate for the speed of the markers. Our goal was to create an environment where new players actually get a chance to figure out what's going on ( plus the higher rate of fire does sell paint).

Now as for how they hold up, I think they hold up really well. Here's why: the integrated 3 way means no tinkering required. The only real adjustment left on these are the sear drop. That's still there. Everything else is set by the factory and cannot be changed. This means that the fire and recocking stages of the trigger pull are extremely close set. I've tried to chop paint intentionally with these markers and haven't been able to do it. Now on my normal cocker I can chop paint at will if I so desire. Now the one drawback of these is the fact that they do operate like a cocker. That means you get ball rollouts because I can't afford barrel kits for every rental. They have a stock .693 and our field paint was boring at .694ish so yes this is a small issue. Part of our safety brief covers the operations of the markers and small tips in their use. (We do have some 98s on hand if people can't handle them.) we are also playing on a sand/gravel field so if a gun is dropped, there isn't much chance of any real damage as long as it gets cleaned.

Saturday we ended up getting most of the players using the trilogies simply because of the temperature. At 36 degrees a lot of crap was going wrong. A new guy was using a Walmart marker, so we just handed him one of the rentals to use for free since we wanted him to have a good time and we weren't busy. A couple of the other guys where on tippmans and eventually asked to use them so we had 4 of the 7 people who did show up with their own gear on them by the end of the day.

We had one game where it was a 4 on 4. We had a autococker and 3 trilogies on one side and a crossover 2 Eteks and a trilogy on the other. The speed gun team lost:P but it was a really close and fun game. So I think that we did achieve the goal of getting rental equipment that didn't become a joke as soon as people showed up with their own gear.

All day long we only had 2 problems with the trilogies. One guy did manage to chop paint and jam the back block because he let his air pressure get to low. Took me 3 minutes to fix. The other problem was one of the trilogies wouldn't get up to speed at the chrono. That was do to a fatigued mainsprings which Doc replaced for us and it chronos just fine now.

Another thing we did with the rentals is we bought thermal masks for the rentals. Nothing super nice or expensive as we expect the masks to get destroyed. This should help us to ensure people get the best value for their buck and come back again. We only have around 16 thousand people between the 5 cities in the area, so we are going to need to return customer more than any other field.

Hopefully this help explain some of the choices we made.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 5:48 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Nice!

by Jeb Hoge

Impressed that you chose to put those Trilogies out there. That's a nice commitment to the players.

Posted on May 21, 2013, 5:46 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Thanks...

by

Thanks for the reply. From a player perspective, it sounds like you have an awesome philosophy, and I really hope you meet with success with it. The markers really do look good in Doc's photos, and don't scream "NOOB HERE! COME AND GET ME!!!" like a bone stock 98 does. If I'm ever up your way, I will have to swing by for a game or two...

Posted on May 22, 2013, 3:28 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Thanks...

by

Can you play only a game or two? Isn't like having just a chip or two?

Posted on May 22, 2013, 8:21 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

tool questions...

by Nobody

what are a good starter/middle of the raod file sets that i could do some metal(paintball guns) work with? i have found that there are times when a file and a little finish work on a part can or could use a few swipes of a file, but i really don't know where to start. i know i need a flat, round and so forth, but what grades? any tips?

Posted on May 17, 2013, 8:44 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

File Budget?

by CameraGuy

For relatively fine finishing work you are probably looking at smooth cut files. For roughing to coarse finishing (depending on technique and part size/material) a bastard cut file will do the job. Ideally different materials cut best with different file techniques and tooth patterns, for example aluminum cuts better with a dull steel file or a tooth pattern designed to clear aluminum chips without clogging than it does with a new, sharp file designed for steel that will be need cleaning every few strokes because the chips won't clear.

http://www.technologystudent.com/equip1/hfile2.htm

Something like this Nicholson set may do the job for fine work on small parts (available from many places at a wide variety of prices):http://www.toolbarn.com/nicholson-42030.html

Alternately you may be better off with a couple of cheap import file sets in different sizes until you decide what you need and how much use the files will get.

I have somewhere well over 50 files ranging from tiny little die files and rifflers up to 12 inch and larger files for knocking the burrs off big blocks between operations.

Don't forget to pick up or make some handles for files with tangs to keep from slipping and impaling yourself.

Posted on May 18, 2013, 1:48 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

look at costco

by

I bought a nice big set of files at costco.. I kid you not.. it's a great set for the money.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/6e6pzOyeTOaPUqw6I18e5Sgg15yczW75u83ZGPWuDes=w276-h207-p-no

Posted on May 18, 2013, 6:07 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

your link

by Nobody

shows a cut, 2k2 classic intimadator.

what i am wanting is a good, middle of the road set, that can cover some fine finish, but get some forming done, i.e. taking off metal of guns and frames, but not necessarily taking chunks of raw stuff. i am looking for larger type files, like 6"+ without the tang.

but in addition to the possible links, what files are used for what job? what is a bastard file?

Posted on May 19, 2013, 9:06 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

answers

by

a bastard file is very rough and aggressive.. think of it as the chainsaw of files. generally you use a particular file for the job you want it to do... thats why you have so many files..

if you want a long flat cut use a long large file.

remove more material.. rough file.

my favorites are about 5" long and odd shapes... triangle. oval. round... not the files I use the most... but my favorite.

note:
you can use a black marker to color the item to be shaped and a pointy thing "nail or awl" to make lines or marks to help layout your cuts.. rough cuts away from lines and finish up to the line..

get some junk parts to practice on..

good luck..


Posted on May 19, 2013, 5:13 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

As with all other tools...

by Deus Machina

...my recommendation is always to grab a cheap set or two, figure out which ones you use a lot, then go and buy some good ones of those.

I have noticed that some name-brand files aren't cut evenly, lately. Always check for sharp, even cutting surfaces.

Outside of that, I will make a note that almost all my work is accomplished between a set of Nicholson needle files, a double-sided, double-textured rasp, and 90% of my filing work is done with a Nicholson Handy File. This is just a basic flat 8-inch file with one side double-cut and the other a finer single cut. I love that thing.

Posted on May 18, 2013, 11:23 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

my advice, check ebay

by jkeyser14

I got an entire drawer full of good Nicholson files from a single ebay auction a few years back. If you keep an eye out you can generally snag them pretty cheap.

Posted on May 19, 2013, 3:40 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Some used files are more trouble than they're worth.

by Attic Rat

I worked in a shop for a while where some of the files were worn dull and wouldn't even begin to bite into the metal I was working, yet they never got replaced. You just had to remember which ones to use, or buy your own. I bought my own, and never loaned them out.

(off-Topic) The file included in my Leatherman multi-tool is ...useless for much more than taking the rough edge off of a torn fingernail. What brand of multi-tools might have better files?

Posted on May 20, 2013, 11:57 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Flat files for flat cuts....

by

But I can whole heartedly recommend Single cut, round nosed 1/4" diameter carbide Burrs and Rubber Bonded Grinding wheels whenever you're working something that needs curves.

The Burr devours material in a way you Dream of in a dremel tool, and they stay sharp for Months. Just don't cut steel with them. They'll eat the steel, but the chips made are like cactus needles made of metal burrs.

The rubber grinding wheels get used up more quickly, but they remove material, leave a smooth surface, and can be used to polish if you lubricate the part with kerosene or WD40.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 7:02 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Thru-Hiker

by I'm happy to be alive....

Well holy...

So I get to Colorado and it's all at altitude. And I'm struggling a bit, because the trail isn't marked all too well, so I'm doing a lot of map and compass shots to stay on the divide (Oh, how I regret saying no to the weight of a GPS). I'm barely making 11 miles a day, which is frustrating me. (Although on the plus side, there have been very few other people on the trail. Not like the PCT at all).

One morning I wake up and my right shoulder/chest hurts, like I pulled a muscle. Not surprising. I'm on the other side of 40 and I'm abusing my body. So I take it slow. Then the coughing starts. Then I'm coughing up blood. Fact: Nothing scarier then spitting blood on pure white snow while alone in the middle of nowhere and at least 5 days from nearest road.

I haven't started to panic yet. I can still walk and hold down fluids, so I'm half OK.

Then, like a switch being thrown, I can't breathe. And the pain? Holy. I've had kidney stones. I've had second and third degree burns over 30% of my body. I've known pain. But this? This was something that couldn't even be described. There wasn't a scale this pain could be managed with. Like broken glass in my lung. I'm already at altitude, so I can't breathe. Now I can't BREATHE breathe.

Takes me a bit to figure out how to time shallow breathes enough not to pass out. Now I figure I'm in real trouble, so I hit the button on my SPOT Transmitter. Sit my ass down and wait for either S&R or to die.

And I wait. And wait. 12 hours later, I know I'm deteriorating breathingwise. And nobody has shown up. So what to do? I know the smart thing is to wait right there. But what if nobody is coming? Or my SPOT was broken? Waiting could kill me.

So I finally compromised. I ditched all my gear other than my SPOT, a lighter and a water bottle. Left a note on my gear explaining my issue, the date and time, and that I was heading to lower elevation ASAP by a south by west route. And started walking.

I don't remember much after that. S&R eventually did find me, but it was almost 16 hours after I had left my gear. I got air lifted to a hospital, where upon arrival I was intubated. I was like that for 3 days, then spent another 4 in ICU. Looks like I suffered High Altitude Pulmonary Edema. Now I'm on a regular hospital floor. But there's been some damage. I have no feeling in my right hand and on different patches of skin on my body. I can't breathe without oxygen. For some reason my pancrease count is something like 900 instead of the normal 75-100. I'm having trouble seeing clearly out of my right eye. And my chest feels like I have a boulder sitting on it.

But I'm alive, right?

It's weird. This isn't my first time at altitude. I've spent a ton of time in the mountains. Even spent 3 months in Everest base camp as crew for a team of friends. I've climbed McKinley. I've never even had altitude sickness, and tend to climitize fairly quickly. Maybe I'm just getting old.

And all my gear is still up there.

Posted on May 17, 2013, 3:41 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I'm happy to be alive (did that backwards, N/T)

by Thru-Hiker

Sorry.

Posted on May 17, 2013, 3:43 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Scary as hell story, glad you can give it yourself

by Hans

Not sure how I would have dealt with the situation, but I'm damn glad you came through it. What altitude were you at when it hit?

Those SPOT transmitters are fantastic things, I'd definitely be sending them a nice letter to thank them.

-Hans

Posted on May 17, 2013, 4:02 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Yeah...

by Thru-Hiker

I wasn't sure how I felt about the SPOT until now. On the PCT it was just dead weight, because even if you got in trouble, there were so many other people on the trail somebody was bound to come upon you fairly quickly.

Case in point: a guy got bit by a rattlesnake. Another hiker came upon him after only like 30 minutes had passed. That hiker went for help, ran to the nearest road (only about 2 miles away, cross-country), flagged a vehicle down and used their cell to call for help. The guy that got bit was airlifted and in a hospital only 3 hours after being bitten - quicker than it would have taken SAR to even mobilize.

But on the CDT, being so remote... I'm glad I had it.

As far as altitude.... I'd been right around the 10K feet mark for about 5 days straight. Which is also odd, because if you're going to get HAPE, it usually happens within the first 2 days of an elevation gain.

Dunno. Just lucky I guess.

Posted on May 22, 2013, 12:02 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Glad you made it out!

by

Any idea why S&R took so long to reach you? Or is 28 hours a normal time?

Posted on May 18, 2013, 11:24 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Glad you made it out!

by CF

Speaking as someone who spent a good chunk of his life in SAR:

Anything which transmits a signal can have that signal blocked -- trees; atmospherics; all sorts of possibilities. Flat or weak batteries can also be a problem.

Then there's the "accidentally activated transmitter" problem -- my bete noire was ELTs which had been set off by a hard landing, and the airplane then put inside a locked hangar....

There's also the nature of the terrain -- just because there's a trail doesn't mean it's going to be easy to see someone (overhanging trees; deep gullies; etc.). Some places, a person can be 3' off trail, and won't be found unless someone specifically looks for him.

I don't know if ditching gear and leaving a note was a good idea or not -- sadly, there's some folks who think it's a really cute prank to pull (until the Sheriff slaps on the charm-bracelets).

Eh -- it worked out (more or less) in the end. I've seen the aftermath of what happens when it *didn't*.

Posted on May 18, 2013, 11:56 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Glad you made it out!

by

I've only done S&R with cell phone signal location (none of the newer fancy, and far superior!, devices) but let me tell you how many times we got told the wrong mountain..

I, personally, think every wilderness S&R team should have a dog on it. Any rescue I've done with a dog in tow was done relatively quickly with very little searching .. and the morale boost on the found of doggie kisses apparently is a big one!

But really, it could have been signal blockage, it could have been they were already overloaded with searches, it could have been technical issues, it could just be how long it took to get an S&R team out there.

I, personally, probably would have moved after 8 hours in case there was signal interruption, sticking to the trail. Actually, much more likely, I'd have sent the BF off with the signal while I stayed put, because I learnt the hard way why you never hike alone.

Posted on May 18, 2013, 1:09 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Don't know

by Thru-Hiker

I never got an "official" reason as to why it took so long. Naturally, I did ask, and I wasn't being an ass when I asked, just more curious than anything. All I found out was the team came from Denver, which is a good ways from here (Not sure why SAR out of Durango or even Colorado Springs didn't respond), and that my moving made it more difficult for them to pin me down.

The SAR team was putting in at known trailheads, and I was simply moving as quickly as I could to lower elevation. Seeing as how there wasn't much actual "trail" where I was when it happened, I can only assume SAR was trying to guess where I would be coming out and tried to backtrack from there. But since I wasn't moving in a predictable direction, they had a lot of misses.

And a big thanks to everyone and their well-wishes. Feeling lots better, I can actually breathe without o2 now and I no longer think I'm going to die whenever I cough or (the worst!!!) I get hiccups.

If my stats stay good through Friday, I can head home this weekend. Luckily I live in a very flat, almost at sea-level state, so breathing should be easier.

Posted on May 22, 2013, 12:14 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Thru-Hiker

by

((Hug)) Now get better and don't scare the people who care about you like that again.






Posted on May 18, 2013, 1:05 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

holy cow...

by Daniel Meyer

Glad you made it out. Hope you heal up quick and fully recover!

CUAgain,
Daniel Meyer

Posted on May 18, 2013, 1:50 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Daymn brah, welcome back to the land of the living!

by FireFrenzy

Might i also suggest taking 2 quarters for Charon the next time? (anyone know whats the exchange rate is on those coins he used?)

Posted on May 18, 2013, 11:21 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Daymn brah, welcome back to the land of the living!

by eddi

2 ounces (approx) of copper. He also takes all major credit cards these days. But I wouldn't worry too much. After the ass-kicking Thru-Hiker just gave him, he's going to need a major excuse to try again.

Posted on May 18, 2013, 11:33 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

got coords?

by

My buddy and I are thinking of hitting up Colorado for a backpacking trip, I'm in AZ. Could be an interesting adventure to retrieve your gear. Makes my fall off a trail while hiking seem like sissy lala stuff. Glad you're okay!

Posted on May 21, 2013, 12:11 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Appreciate the thought...

by Thru-Hiker

but it'll probably resolve itself. Another hiker apparently came across my gear and called into the local Ranger station about my note. Once the hiker found I was already in the hospital, he ended up calling to see how I was. He told me he told his girlfriend about everything, and she sent the info out on a mailing list that was put together before any of us started the trail. We used the mailing list to bounce ideas and questions off each other as we were in the planning stages of the hike.

Anyways, the GF was able to get thru to some hikers that are about a week behind me and they're going to be on the lookout for it and will grab it if they see it.

On another note... if you are looking for a good hike in CO, look into the Gold Creek area just east of Gunnison, CO. It's still pretty gnarly altitude, but that part of the valley is some of the most beautiful I've ever seen. I'd put it up there with Yosemite, it's that pretty. Plus it's remote without being ridiculously remote. Makes for a great trip.

Posted on May 22, 2013, 12:25 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

NOW that it's Friday....

by Ketira

...Poor Pirta! I'd be reacting the same way if someone loudly said that right behind me as well! (Thankfully, the only one who would do that is across the Continent right now.)

Also, I agree with Doc. If you're going to teach someone else how to use something, at least learn the proper terminology for all the parts of said something!

Posted on May 17, 2013, 6:55 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Proper terminology

by CTPatt

Yes, because knowing the exact name of an object down to the letter is a major factor in knowing how it works. /sarcasm

I've never been able to attach names to more than a token handful of parts on a lathe without a diagram, but I'm still trained and capable of making screws, tapers, knurls, and a dozen or so other operations that 99/100 times are done by CNC these days. The insistence of some folks on being able to spout a mountain of jargon - that no customer would ever be able to make sense of - at the drop of a hat really grates on my nerves.

Posted on May 17, 2013, 11:38 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Awww

by Cheetah

You mad bro? People know more than you? Sorry that people care more than you do.

Posted on May 17, 2013, 1:11 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Terminology

by DragonholderX

Proper terminology is absolutely required in some cases. On a sailboat, if the captain says douse the mainsails and make fast, that does not mean throw water on the sail and move faster

Posted on May 17, 2013, 2:57 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Especially..

by Drake263

..when we're talking about things like power tools and military equipment, where a mistake or misunderstanding can mean serious damage to expensive equipment OR personnel. Knowing what each bit and tool is called is the first step in figuring out what's safe to touch and what not - and speedier repairs, in case of things like 'hand me the whachamacallit' :p

Posted on May 18, 2013, 7:42 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Awww

by

You a jackass, bro?

It really depends on what a person is doing with said equipment. If you work alone, you don't need to know that the domahickey that controls the watchamacallit is actually a half-nut lever.

When I'm getting mechanical assistance, I appreciate people who can use terminology I, the layman, knows.. however, I can't say I'd be real comforted to hear a mechanic say "Hey, hand me the whoseit wrench so I can loosen the thingamajig on the oil holder."

Posted on May 18, 2013, 1:00 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Proper terminology

by

True...to a degree. On the other hand, knowing the jargon demonstrates that you at least know what you're talking about to the customer (especially the ones that do understand the jargon themselves, but are coming to you because they can't afford the equipment to do it themselves).

Of course, the 'confuse the customer with technobabble' types you're talking about nearly always are either a) doing it to try to scam the customer for higher fees, b) are like yourself, people who only learned how to operate it, but haven't properly learned the machine itself, or c) are trying to cover up for ignorance and incompetance with BS. And while b) isn't that bad, customers are more likely to assume a) or c) and go looking elsewhere if they can.

Posted on May 19, 2013, 7:36 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Is it Friday yet?

by Izzy

44128.jpg

Posted on May 15, 2013, 7:47 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Is it Friday yet?

by

Guess Doc's given up on finding his pants!

Posted on May 15, 2013, 9:29 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Thats odd...

by Donkey

I had always thought that Doc was a male and not a female. No wonder the other girls where so shocked when they saw Doc with out her pants on.

Posted on May 16, 2013, 4:52 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Thats odd...

by Donkey

I had always thought that Doc was a male and not a female. No wonder the other girls where so shocked when they saw Doc with out her pants on.

Posted on May 16, 2013, 4:52 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Xray vision

by Ronin

How can you say that bear is female when it's face down, facing away and all the 'identifiable' bits are covered with lots of fur and more fur and ?flab?.

Posted on May 17, 2013, 11:30 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

TWB 5/14/2013: Sandy's the 'old hand' now?

by

Kind of amusing to see the way she's talking to Pirta in this strip, when it wasn't *that'* long ago she thought a paintball was candy. happy.gif

Posted on May 14, 2013, 8:14 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

8 years is an 'ion' in this sport. n/t

by ta2maki

bad pun intended

Posted on May 14, 2013, 8:29 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

RE: 8 years is an 'ion' in this sport.

by Anonymous Coward

Hate to be *that guy*, but it's pretty clear pun intended, as the word proper is "eon"...

Posted on May 14, 2013, 8:31 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

You positive about that?

by Dena

I hate to be a negative Nancy, but maybe that was a hint that Sandy's giving Pirta a lesson on charging the bottle.

Posted on May 15, 2013, 4:26 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Pirta's apprehension...

by Urthdigger

So, do you think she doesn't want to be the one to hand Doc his pants? Or do you think she doesn't want him to find them?

Posted on May 16, 2013, 3:04 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Kegerator?

by

I don't know what a "kegorator" is, but I'm fairly certain my shop doesn't have one.

Anyone know where I can get one? New/Used/Build my own? Sounds like the sort of thing every shop needs.

Posted on May 14, 2013, 3:37 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I suppose....

by Ketira

...it's a mix of "beer keg" & "refrigerator". I think one beer brand makes them, but I could be wrong.

Have you tried using your favorite Search Engine to find it?

Posted on May 14, 2013, 4:12 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Build Your Own

by TargetIndy

If you have a Menards nearby, swing over there and see if they have any used fridges out in the lumber yard. Our local Menards stores sell fridges and take away the old ones. They resell them for as little as $30. I homebrew, so I picked up a fridge and converted it to a two tap kegerator. It's big enough to hold three 5-gallon kegs. My system uses a 20oz CO2 tank to push the beer out of the kegs.

Posted on May 14, 2013, 4:37 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Yep.

by

Soda fountain systems use CO2 as well to carbonate the water and run the syrup pumps on a pre-mix system- Post mix is typically dispensed the same as beer, using similar taps and cooling equipment.

/me knows waaaay too much about it, from research into building a wet bar for the house.

Posted on May 14, 2013, 6:12 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

A wet bar you say?

by MephitMark

And just how 'complete' is this bar and is there a exterior door just to that room for the locals to visit?

Posted on May 14, 2013, 8:08 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Well...

by

It's part of the long-term plans I have for this house. It'd be about as well equipped as a home bar ought to be. It'd also be private for friends and invited guests. happy.gif

Right now, though, I'm trying to figure out the best plan for the roof will be- there's a small leak in it now, and it probably needs to be stripped down to the decking and replaced. (or removed entirely and a screen or canvas shade installed instead.)

Posted on May 15, 2013, 4:26 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Learn me about three-phase power

by Hans

There is a chance, maybe, that I'll be picking up a big honking new tool for my electronics shop.... a wave soldering machine. The price is too good, and the machine fits my needs perfectly.

Only problem is, it's three phase. My garage is currently running single phase.
The electrical is kinda odd at the new house, the garage actually has its own dedicated meter and panel, with 200A service. The datasheet for the machine says that it was available in either delta, star or parallel three phase from the factory. I don't know which it's equipped with at the moment and will try to find out.

I know there are things out there for converting, but know very little about them, and what I've found on the 'net so far is all about running electric motors. This machine is mostly concerned with running heating elements, as in keeping 100lbs of solder molten. It's listed as just a hair over 10kw in total power use.

I have no idea what kind of phase converter I'd be looking for to handle this, nor how big. I'll have an electrician wire it in for me, I just need to know if it's feasible to even do this.

-Hans




Posted on May 13, 2013, 9:51 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Static or Electronic converter, not Rotary

by Stu Friedberg

For this application, you really don't want the typical rotary converter. If you happen to have a 30-50HP motor in your junkbin, you could make a rotary converter, but that's really not the right approach here.

"Parallel" three-phase probably means all heater elements on a single phase. That would be the simplest way to wire this up.

Depending on how the solder tank heat control is set up (bang-bang vs proportional), you might do well with a static three-phase converter tuned for the specific heater loads. Because your heaters have negligible inductance, you should look into "transformer converters". This would be a better solution for bang-bang heater control than for proportional.

The main alternative, which will give you outstandingly clean and robust three-phase power suitable for almost any purpose, is a Phase Perfect digital phase converter. You will need a 20HP or larget unit. PP converters produce delta output power, so your machine would have to accept that type of power.

This is what Delta and Wye are about: Wye power has a current-carrying neutral (not to be confused with a ground) and loads are applied across any of the three live conductors and the common neutral. Delta power has no neutral and loads are applied across any pair of the three live conductors. If you draw a picture with the live conductors as dots at the points of a triangle, and the optional neutral as a dot in the center of the triangle, then draw lines for the loads, you get a Y or a shape.

Equipment designed for delta power can almost always be powered from either a delta or a wye supply. Equipment designed for wye power almost never can be powered from a delta supply. So if you can't go "parallel", go "delta".

In addition to your phase conversion (if needed), you also need to consider your circuit protection needs (fusing, etc). It would be wise to consult an licensed electrician familiar with the NEC Articles relevant to industrial heating loads. Both motors and heating elements have surge in-rush currents when stopped/cold that are potentially much greater than the routine load. Your wiring and your fusing has to accomodate that.

Posted on May 13, 2013, 10:48 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Static or Electronic converter, not Rotary

by Hans

Good info there.

The factory manual says that the machines were set up from the factory as star, delta or parallel depending on customer request and if Europe, USA, or Japan. Made in Switzerland in the early 80's, so terminology may have changed.

Not sure if it can be changed or not, but I can dig up more info from the spec sheets tonight when I am home again.

-Hans

Posted on May 13, 2013, 1:07 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

look for a VFD

by irregular Logic

A variable frequency drive can be used as a single-to-three-phase converter fairly simply.

Whatever method you choose, You may want to get the opinion of an industrial electrician or electrical engineer before you start building. Most industrial three phase systems run around 240-480volts - you want to make sure the system has the capacity before you flip the switch.

Posted on May 13, 2013, 1:08 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Not sure that'll work...

by

10KW is over 13HP, and a 15HP VFD would be huge and expensive- not only that, I'm not at all sure there even IS such a thing as a 15HP single phase VFD. (As in, one that takes in single phase and gives out 3-phase. There definitely are 3-phase VFDs that size, but have to be fed 3-phase.)

Probably the only workable solution is a rotary converter. The Phase Perfect mentioned above is pretty expensive, about $5K plus shipping for a 20HP model. Whereas a 15HP rotary can be had for closer to $1,200- or even less if you can scrounge a 20HP surplus motor to use as an idler.

Doc.

Posted on May 13, 2013, 1:36 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Not sure a rotary would work

by

A rotary will generate a 'wild' leg but it won't have the capacity of the other legs unless you sped a lot of time balancing currents with capacitors. With the heating elements switching in & out the current draw isn't going to remain stable so the wild leg's voltage will swing quite a bit.

I don't think there's any choice other than a Phase Perfect in this application unless the heating elements could be separated out and all put across the single phase supply. Likely that could be done with some amount of rewiring (might have to go up a gauge in wire size). If there's some remaining 3 phase requirement it most likely could be handled with a smaller rotary converter (noting that some CNC devices are quite sensitive to supply irregularity).

Posted on May 13, 2013, 3:13 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

More info from this puzzle, and I may be able to run this 2-phase.

by

Part of the problem I'm having is that I'm reading 1983 instructions, which were written in English by somebody in Germany. So some terminology is apparently different. The info you guys are giving me so far is helping me understand it all for sure though.

It does show diagrams for three phase Wye (Which it calls 'star'), and three phase delta. This apparently is done to separate the various segments of the system so that the load is distributed among the three phases. For instance, in the delta, the hot air and pre-heater are on one phase, then one solder heater and the pump are on a second phase, and the other solder heater plus ventilation are on the third phase. But it doesn't appear that any individual segment actually needs three phases.

It also shows a variation of the Wye that it calls 'parallel', which apparently is two-phase, that runs everything through internal 20A fuses before heading into a 50A breaker. The associated diagram also clearly says "2 poles connecting diagram". looks like the parallel just runs the three segments individually as independent two phase modules, but still runs it through the internal fuses used in the Wye connection. Each module gets its own hot and neutral, with a common ground.

For this 'parallel' connection, it says the following...
"2.2.6 Parallel connection, fig.208
(7-conductor special cord)
Wall socket P+N+E, 50A
all other data as star-connection
line-fuse 50A
The safety-ground may be connected to the neutral line"

If anybody wants, I can e-mail them the operating manual to look at the diagrams and such to make sure I'm reading this correct. Just let me know. I don't want to upload it though as they gave it to me via their internal FTP server, so I don't know if they want it widely distributed.

-Hans


Posted on May 13, 2013, 5:47 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

If you are in touch with the manufacturer,

by Someone

You can always ask them what they recommend. Even if they don't want to give an 'official' recommendation, there's always getting a little bit of advice.

Posted on May 13, 2013, 7:25 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

parallel that sucker!

by maker of toys

So the first thing to know is that Europe is almost universally 220 to 250 volts for everything, even ipod chargers. And quite a lot of the residential service is three-phase, at least at the service entrance, to say nothing of industrial buildings. so european industrial equipment designers are spring loaded to provide a 3 phase option even is it isnt absolutely needed.

But- heaters are single phase devices by their very nature... three phase heaters can be ordered but it's a hassle and usually there isn't much point.

So it really boils down to the motors and whether they are single phase or not.
Based on the information just presented, wiring the thing hot-hot across the 220 line and grounding the chassis really well is probably sufficient.

Im on vacation at the moment, so email is spotty, but if you want to bung a .pdf at my yahoo account and have me glance at it, try steelnomad2002.it might be wednesday night pacific time before i get a chance at it, tho, so if someone else can offer an opinon faster, you might wanna go that route.

Something to bear in mind: this monster is gonna suck down half your 200 amps service. Yeah, i know it says 50 amps, but in the states residential service panels are rated for how much 120 volt current they can handle. You'll need to halve that value for 240 loads. . . So think hard about what other loads you'll need to power when this thing is running.

Posted on May 13, 2013, 8:55 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Yep, looks like all the individual components are two phase

by

It does have, while very basic, some diagrams of the internal electrics of the machine. Looks like everything in it is two phase. Any motors in there won't be unusually large, they run things like the conveyor, the 120mm vent fan, and the solder wave pump. None of these are going to be high draw. The vast majority of the power use is going to be due to the heating elements in the machine.

Good info on the panel load. The good thing is that I really don't have much in the garage. A couple welders, air compressor, and lights is about it. I definitely won't be doing any welding or running air tools while this monster is powered up, the last thing I want to do is leave 100 or so lbs of molten solder un-monitored. So I don't see any issues with taxing the panel. Also factor in that it's never going to actually be drawing 10kw at any time, as modules turn on and off depending where you are in the cycle. I estimate the actual running power is in the range of 8kw or so when operating.

I'll shoot that e-mail over to you in a few minutes, no rush, the e-bay auction doesn't end till Saturday afternoon anyway.

-Hans


Posted on May 14, 2013, 5:50 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

e-mail didn't make it...

by maker of toys

Try again?


steelnomad2002 is a yahoo.com addy.

Posted on May 15, 2013, 7:26 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

slightly edited repost of p.m.-

by maker of toys

To add to the general knowlege base...

if you are wired 208 v star in the machine, and have easy access to the center terminal of the star, it's an easy conversion to single phase.


(Note that 3 phase motors do not give access to the center of the star, and thus the inclusion of a 3 phase motor would disqualify the equipment from this sort of conversion. Hans's case has all single phase motors...)

Why?

Because the machine is really all 120 v single phase internally!

Hows that?

208 phase to phase is 120 to nuetral. (Check it: 208v/sqrt(3) is, for all intents and purposes, 120 v.) The trig of 120 degrees of phase shift implies that the relationship of the phases is given by:

V(y)= V(x)cos 120

Yes. Thats the reason us spec low voltage 3 phase is 208v phase to phase, not 240 v. Its all about convenience!

So: hooking this beast up:
All you will have to do is crack open the power module, run in a sufficiently large nuetral from the power distribution panel,to the center point of the star, and connect each pole of the main power switch to a 120v source. (size for the nuetral left to your calculation, but there are android apps that can do the heavy lifting for you...)

Now, it would be better if those 120 sources were breakers that are physically tied togeather. Some brands of power distribution panel use interchangeable breakers for both 3phase and 1 phase lines of panels... so if your garage s rigged that way, life is good. But if you dont expect OSHA visits, you can probably get away with individual units. You may be able to get a 3pole breaker from a local electrical house... or on line. But the home stores wont have them on the shelf.

(The square-d QO series of panels is one that works that way. Not an endorsement, just an observation.)

Good luck! Have fun and be safe!

-Dan

Posted on May 16, 2013, 9:22 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Phase and frequency

by

Real two-phase power went out of style a century ago. What you're talking about is really single phase. In the US, it's 240 V 60 Hz single phase with a grounded center tap. If the machine can be wired for single-phase you should be able to use a two-pole breaker and feed it 240 V single phase. That part is easy.

If this machine was designed for European power, that's usually 220V at 50 Hz. The voltage will be a bit high, so your heaters may have slightly lower lifespans, but it should work. The 50 Hz is more of a problem, as the motors will turn faster than the machine was designed for. You might need to replace a motor or add a single-phase VFD to slow the motors down if the increased speed is a problem.

I installed a lot of machines like this when I worked in manufacturing. If you want a second opinion, shoot me a copy of the manual and I'll give you a more informed opinion.

Posted on May 14, 2013, 8:28 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Whoops

by

Forgot to add -- my email is nospam@ my username.

Posted on May 14, 2013, 8:30 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

European power

by Solar

Note that 220V was phased out (excuse the pun) in Europe. The new "standard" power rating is 230V plus/minus 10%.

Posted on May 15, 2013, 3:49 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I'd like to see those instructions

by

Three phase is only strictly required for motors and certain transformer applications. This equipment seems to be mostly resistive loads, which aren't very fussy about their flavor of electric. Changing electric flavors for motors, and changing motors to tolerate different electric flavors is what I do day-in day-out, but I don't think you need anything so fancy.

My main concern would be minor motors, such as for cooling. Those may well be three-phase. If that's the case, I could match you up something that would fit and run on single phase, which at that size would be a heck of a lot cheeper than phase conversion of any sort.

Of course, I'm saying this just before bed and after a large dinner. E-mail me, or call and annoy me at my business.

Posted on May 14, 2013, 7:37 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

3 phase likely requires special utility hookup

by Robert The Addled

If you are on a residential line (unless a main trunk) - unlikely you have 3 phase even at the pole.

If you have at least a 220 setup, you may be able to get the utility to hook up for 3phase, otherwise an AC-DC converter with a motor-generator to take the DC and make 3 phase AC out of it.

It is POSSIBLE you may be able to phase and a half (the 2 lines to make 220V) like a floor buffer, but I wouldn't count on it.

Delta wiring (motor) has the three coils meeting at corners of a triangle. Wye meets in the center. In any case at any given moment, 2 of the lines are splitting the full current and the 3rd line has full current. Voltages are spread differently - voltage leads current.

DELTA windings are more reliable for equipment that needs to operate even If a phase is dropped.

I don't recall the special properties of using a Wye connection.



Posted on May 13, 2013, 2:21 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

More information from the manual

by

This is an interesting machine. Apparently there were a lot of options for power, so how you handle this will depend on which configuration this particular machine has.

The eBay auction indicates that this one was configured for US power: 3 phase 208V 60 Hz. The 60 Hz part is good -- you won't have to worry about motors running too fast.

There are apparently no components that actually use three phase power. The wiring diagrams in the manual indicate that you can just tie all three phases together and run the whole thing single phase on a 50A breaker.

Now comes the potential problem -- if this is configured for 208 volts as the auction says, then standard 240 is going to be too high. The specifications give a tolerance of 10%, for a max of 229 V. US 240 V power commonly runs at 250 V or even higher. Of course this is not a problem if the machine is actually configured for 240 V.

You may need to find a boost/buck transformer to lower the voltage. These transformers are usually used to boost the voltage at the end of a long line. They're fairly common in rural areas. If you need to go that route, try to find one locally. They're heavy.

Posted on May 15, 2013, 9:39 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

God only knows what it's actually wired for.

by

From the conversations I've had with the seller, he's only going by the spec sheets in the manual. He doesn't know what actual wiring configuration the machine has, and is out of town right now. I did ask if he could give me a photo of the serial number plate, which is supposed to have that information on it.

Digging more through the manual, it looks like it uses different configurations of heating elements depending on the voltage. The higher the voltage, the lower the wattage of the heating elements. There are also a couple of magnetic coils that have a max voltage of 165v on them. I really don't think I'll know what I'm dealing with until I get my hands on the machine itself. This, of course, depends on if I can get it within a reasonable budget.

It has a really neat system for the solder flow. Instead of a pump motor, it uses magnetic induction to cause the solder itself to flow, with no moving parts. It's also got an oil bath system that drastically reduces the amount of time the molten solder is in contact with air, thus reducing dross and automatically filtering it out.

-Hans

Posted on May 15, 2013, 12:52 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Too many options

by

The manual says that the machine can be supplied wired for 200/208V, 220V, or 240V. They could be using different parts for each voltage, or just wiring elements in series or parallel to get the (approximately) correct voltage. There is also mention of a circuit in the power controller that allows for greater variations in voltage.

Maybe the manufacturer has instructions for changing the voltage in the field. It would be worth asking.

Posted on May 15, 2013, 1:01 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Agreed

by

Whichever option I go with, I'll definitely consult the manufacturer before attempting any changes. At this point I just need to wait and see what it is, assuming I win the auction. Older used machines with no shipping and not set up at the time of sale, they don't seem to go for too much.

Posted on May 15, 2013, 1:41 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Yet another follow-up

by

I was able to get a few photos of the serial number plates for it.
The photos are unfortunately hard to see for sure, but it appears to be wired for 208v delta, 60hz.

This makes for a bit more work to re-wire for single phase, but it does appear to just be a question of changing some connections around on the inside. There is also a voltage input selector on the power module as well, so I don't see any major problems coming up as long as everything is present... which appears to be the case.

-Hans

Posted on May 16, 2013, 7:19 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Won the auction.... hope I get it

by

I can't believe I was the only bidder at 99 cents. I was at least expecting a few test bids against me! I was prepared to go at least a few hundred bucks like I think it's valued at. It makes me nervous he may not sell to me. I did tell him I'm prepared to pay a couple hundred minimum, despite the auction amount.

So we shall see what happens at this point.

-Hans

Posted on May 18, 2013, 9:00 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I was surprised

by

I think the location is a problem. I probably wouldn't be willing to drive halfway across the country for a 99 cent machine that I want. If I wanted it, that is. It's likely that there are not very many people in the area who would be interested.

Please let us know what happens with this. I love reading these tool stories, and this is shaping up to be a good one.

Posted on May 18, 2013, 11:29 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Yep, and I'm close enough to make it possible

by

It's about a 6hr drive for me, which isn't that close, but not that far either. Big state, but same state that I'm living in now. I also promised the Wife I'd take her to see Mt.Rushmore this summer. So I was going to be making the drive either way.

The empty solder pot didn't help the auction price either. Most machines of this size take around 150 lbs or more of solder to fill it, which at $15/lb ain't cheap. This one only needs 60 lbs, which I don't think most people realize, it's an uncommon manufacturer. The photos also kinda sucked, and it was made in 1984.





Posted on May 18, 2013, 12:04 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

A 3 phase heater is still a.

by

collection of single phase elements. The control is probably single coil in a 3 pole contactor ( or 3 single pole) It could probably be wired for 220 single phase, but the current consumption would go way up. I am probably late with this info. If you get a print you could email me a copy... I might be able to help. ( we have lots of old hardware at work)

Posted on May 19, 2013, 6:22 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Right on the money, Barry

by

Actually, I've been e-mailing with a few guys already, and as it turns out there isn't a single three-phase component in the entire system. There's even a single phase wiring configuration which is what I'll likely end up using once I get my mitts on the machine.

Now that I know the machine is in one way or another viable for me to operate in my garage, I can't wait to get my hands on it and start getting it back into operation. Just waiting to hear back from the seller on when I can arrange pickup.

-Hans

Posted on May 20, 2013, 7:43 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Now the big decision - Clean it out for ROHS, or not.

by

If the pots are half empty now, might not be a bad idea to get the rest out with a weed-burner and start it up using no-lead solder and the related rosins and solders. Even if you don't totally scrub it out.

After running for a while the trace lead will be low enough the products could be shipped to the EU without a hassle.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 1:14 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Probably not

by

I think RoHS as a concept is great, but it's a very tricky decision to make.

Cost is a factor, but I think that being creative with purchasing can help with that. Looks like secondary markets, such as E-bay, can get the price down in the $15-$20/lb range... which isn't bad at all. 63/37 runs about $10-$15 on the same market, so not a huge price difference there. Some bigger warehouses are selling the stuff at $45-$50/lb, which would be completely un-affordable for me right now if I had to go that route.

The biggest issue though is compatibility. This is an early 1980's machine, and lead-free solders hadn't even been developed yet when the machine was made. I haven't got a clue what metal the solder pot is made out of, and the last thing I want to do is have the lead-free stuff ruin the pot and dump 60lbs of solder on my garage floor. If I know 100% for sure that the machine can take it, I'll strongly consider lead-free, but without that assurance... it's going to be running 63/37.

-Hans

Posted on May 20, 2013, 5:32 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Let me know if you need..

by Barry

any control hardware. We have plenty of used odds & sods

Posted on May 20, 2013, 4:17 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

The one thing wrong with Iron Man 3...

by

Naturally, there will be spoilers, so if you haven't seen IM3, better bug out now. happy.gif

Now, I enjoyed IM3. Lots to like, great visuals (maybe a tad overblown, like a lot of movies are doing these days) decent plot (albeit a lot more comic-booky than the previous two.)

There were, of course, also lots of little nit-picky bits. Most weren't too important, but there was one, big, glaring-in-retrospect nitpick that just keeps gnawing at me.

They completely forgot his ranged weapons.

In the big ending battle, with forty-plus suits, we see more than a few of them being mobbed by "extremis soldiers" and taken down- and Tony himself cycles through at least four suits just fighting one guy.

The only thing the extremis guys can do is heat up. Yeah, they can jump higher, lift more, run faster, etc. but their main weapon is... just being able to heat up parts of their bodies.

No blasters, no laser-beam eyes, no rocket launchers. Some handguns and a red-hot karate chop.

Tony's suits, on the other hand, can fly, can shoot repulsor beams, and have a variety of other weapons, many of which work at ranges well beyond what the extremis soldiers can cover by mere jumping or running.

And other than the repuslors, both Tony and Jarvis (technically J.A.R.V.I.S.) almost completely forget about all of them, in order to go hand-to-hand... with bad guys whose only weapon is hand-to-hand.

That killer wrist-laser seen in both IM2 and Avengers? Forgotten. The forearm-mounted multiple micro-missile launcher seen at the end of IM2? Ignored. That tank-killer single missile launcher from the first movie? Forgotten. Those shoulder-mounted dart shooters? Neglected.

Hell, he didn't even try the flare launcher he used in the first movie.

Tony used the chest-mounted "Unibeam" weapon (in the movies, basically a giant repulsor blaster) exactly once, and then never again.

It could be argued that Tony, in the heat of battle, forgot which suits he was wearing, and lost track of some of the more exotic weapons- perhaps not every suit had the missile launcher or the wrist lasers.

But how does that explain Jarvis? The AI should have pretty much perfect knowledge of which suits had which weapons- so why did we see them time and again closing in to knife-fighting range with the bad guys, instead of hovering well out of jumping or thrown-object range and picking them off with missiles and precision laser fire? Yeah, they can heal super fast, but how about if you laser an inch-wide hole through the brain, or explode most of the torso into finely-distributed mist?

And you can't tell me that in the course of building over forty different suits, that Tony didn't build at least one more model that was as well armed as War Machine- if not more so?

Yeah, heavy lifting, sure. Undersea model, okay. Stealth suit, why not? But no specialized tank-killer? Nothing with an upgraded and optimized wrist laser that isn't "one shot only"? No suit with about 26 of those first-movie tank-killer missiles in a rapid-fire launcher?

No... you know, highly-specialized heat resistant suits, maybe meant for working in and around things like forest or industrial fires? You know, something the extremis guys wouldn't be able to chop through in one swing?

Heck, nothing with a couple of Whiplash's electrified whips that could dice up the bad guys like a chainsaw? You know, at a distance?

Nope. Tony's gotta go hand-to-hand, hardly using any weapons at all, against a bad guy who can only fight hand-to-hand, with no weapons.

Later we can argue about the suits flying from California to Miami, Florida in about ten minutes (which would be what, something like 16,000 MPH?) as well as the highly suspect idea that apparently just anyone can climb into Iron Patriot and run off with it (even after the entire premise of the second movie, which specifically involved external takeover of the suit) except when the President wore it, in which case it somehow remained under the- again, external- control of the bad guys, and that Tony had no other house or base of operations (say, a factory he owns, or a vacation home, or, you know, a jet plane, maybe?) that he could bug out to, or any other employees or security guards he could call. (Or, you know, a SHIELD safehouse, or a berth on the HeliCarrier, or for that matter, the local branch of the FBI? He wasn't wanted for any crimes, he just wanted to make the bad guys think he was dead, to give him time to recover and rebuild. He couldn't call up Nick Fury and say hey, got a lab and a soldering iron I can borrow?

Or the idea of having to use a car battery to recharge a suit... worn by a guy wearing a 3-gigawatt nuclear reactor in his chest...

happy.gif

Doc.

Posted on May 12, 2013, 2:16 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

That what happens when they switch directors.

by

The one for i3 that was his first sci-fi/comic book movie. They blew it on the auto armor up in lab joke. Would be funny to see him try different words or songs. Would be real funny if they used the Dahoo song out of bettlejuice and had the armor dance in straight line. On the part of using no weapons I think it a director drop the ball on the shell shock stuff and forgot to put in a shot that he could not kill and added it to jarvis. On the bad guy end of the movie..waiting for a micro wave joke or pop tart joke..

Posted on May 12, 2013, 3:24 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I'm still moping over "Clean Slate", didn't think of any of that. N/T

by Anonymous Coward

Stupid Pots.

Posted on May 12, 2013, 8:09 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Yeah, that got me too...

by

There's been several jokes in the comics over the years, about how Tony's armor could be used for this or that civillian use, or why not offer armor to other superheroes to use, etc.

The reason he doesn't? They cost billions of dollars. Each.

I can't remember where I saw it, probably a TV Tropes page, with a quote from Tony that was something like, why not sell similar technology to paraplegics so they can walk again? Because it costs $1.6 billion per copy.

And that's probably not too far off the mark- I'd bet the movie makers spent upwards of ten million just making nonfunctional prop armors.

So Tony blows up roughly fifty billion dollars in ultra-high technology just because his girlfriend asked him to?

Sure, he's undoubtedly got all the plans and specs on his servers back home (what, you think Tony didn't have a secure remote server, that all his hard drives got blown up with the house?) but there's still the fact he just scattered forty suits worth of parts all over a shallow shipping bay. You know, repulsors, arc reactors, mini-missiles, high-end computing and HUD parts... the kind of things corporate espionage types would kill for. The US Government has, at times, spent billions to recover Soviet submarine wrecks and to collect the wreckage of ballistic missile test launches, to determine how they worked.

Tony's never heard of recycling? happy.gif

Doc.

Posted on May 12, 2013, 1:13 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Next up "Iron War"?

by eddi

The last Marvel comics I read included the "Iron Wars" stories. That's how they started. Stark found people had been recovering/stealing armor components and designs and became obsessed with recovering them and stopping the bad guys once and for all.

Posted on May 12, 2013, 2:52 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Entirely possible...

by

The Armor Wars was a big pivotal moment in the comics, leading up to the Government sending a super-big suit called Firepower after IM.

That'd make a pretty decent movie, if done right, since it harkens back to the first one; Tony wanting to keep the tech out of the hands of the Bad Guys, and having to battle other suits to do so.

Plus it'd be perfect for the new crop of over-CGI'ed explosions-and-transforming-robots movies.

But I haven't heard if they're even going to do an IM4, yet. I'm sure Downey's signed up for a bunch more (cameos in other movies, more Avengers, etc.) but I'm not sure if a fourth is being talked about.

Doc.

Posted on May 12, 2013, 3:27 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Downey's contract

by Nohbody

IM3 was his last contracted film. Right now him and Marvel are in discussions about a new contract to continue as Tony Stark in the MCU.

http://rewired.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/marvel-cliffhanger-robert-downey-jrs-518837

Posted on May 13, 2013, 2:45 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

What about the "Juggernaut" suit that was holding up the rig?

by

Clean slate would have caused a big part of the rig to collapse.

Posted on May 20, 2013, 12:25 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Baddies seemed fairly impervious to damage beyond close range MAJOR damage though

by

nothing of the fired weapons did much damage from which they couldn't recover

Posted on May 12, 2013, 12:54 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

That's my point...

by

... The only weapons both Tony and the armors seemed to use were the repulsors. Those are supposedly a sort of "force blaster", creating a variable "pushing" force, rather than a laser blaster or particle-beam cannon or whatever.

So the repulsors are essentially just concussive weapons- basically ranged punches. And used on bad guys who had the ability to rapidly recover from kinetic damage.

Again, those red lasers from IM2 and Avengers. Even if only half the armors had those lasers, that's still some forty "shots" if you use each hand as separate shots. It didn't look like there were forty extremis baddies there, so why not have the AI-controlled suits hover about fifty yards out and start lasering heads off, or again, lasering inch-wide holes in brains, or just drawing a quick "X" across their torsos.

If extremis couldn't save that guy with the hole blown in his chest, it's not going to be able to save somebody whose been sliced into four major pieces. happy.gif

Doc.

Posted on May 12, 2013, 1:23 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: The one thing wrong with Iron Man 3...

by CF

>It could be argued that Tony, in the heat of battle, forgot which suits he was wearing, and lost track of some of the more exotic weapons- perhaps not every suit had the missile launcher or the wrist lasers.
>[...]And you can't tell me that in the course of building over forty different suits, that Tony didn't build at least one more model that was as well armed as War Machine- if not more so?

20/20 Hindsight -- how's he to know he's going to be facing 40-50 folks who are deadly at close range?

More to the point, tho': The Extremis troops were also near-as-makes-no-odds bulletproof -- they were taking full magazines of 9mm, and shaking them off. It took being at ground zero of a low-yield nuclear blast (blowing the plant of a IM suit) to kill one of them off. Blow off an arm -- wait a couple minutes, and he grows a new one. Cut him in half -- same deal. In short: Extremis troops are an example of the Brigadier's Plea from _Doctor Who: "Just once I'd like to run across a threat which *isn't* immune to bullets." Lasers and rockets would only have been effective at "danger to self an others" levels.

>[...]Heck, nothing with a couple of Whiplash's electrified whips that could dice up the bad guys like a chainsaw? You know, at a distance?

Whiplash lost -- why bother building something based on an easily-defeated concept?

>[...] that Tony had no other house or base of operations (say, a factory he owns, or a vacation home, or, you know, a jet plane, maybe?) that he could bug out to,

Factories -- Mandarin would know where they were, and would target them as well, once he had any idea Stark was still breathing. Vacation homes -- much the same. Jet plane -- see what happens to Air Force One in the film. Unless he could somehow create a bolthole which even he didn't know about (possible, but insanely difficult), there's nowhere he can run to where Mandarin and his can't find him.

>or any other employees or security guards he could call.

Stark has serious trust issues -- even with himself; the number of people he would trust with SHTF plans -- well, one of them was in the hospital, and the other was getting snatched by the bad guys. Do The Math.

> (Or, you know, a SHIELD safehouse, or a berth on the HeliCarrier, or for that matter, the local branch of the FBI? He wasn't wanted for any crimes, he just wanted to make the bad guys think he was dead, to give him time to recover and rebuild. He couldn't call up Nick Fury and say hey, got a lab and a soldering iron I can borrow?

Nick Fury was very clear on this point in _The Avengers_: One member of the Avengers is hard enough to deal with; having them all in one place is on the order of giving Doc a case of Dew and saying "It can't be done". The members of The Avengers are components of an "Option Zero" weapon -- until such time as they are all needed, they are to be kept as far separated as possible. Giving any of them any more access to SHIELD's resources than necessary -- this is a "Doc wearing a kilt on a windy day" level of Bad Idea. So: No, Stark cannot call Nick Fury and ask for stuff, unless he wants to hear the sort of language which has made Sam Jackson famous.

In short: Tony Stark is very much on his own at this stage; he can't even rely on the suits to save his ass anymore.

But Tony Stark, like most folks on this forum, is a Maker. He makes tools to fix problems. And that's exactly what he does in this flick.

(As to blowing up the suits at the end: Do you ask a recovering alcoholic to keep a wine cellar?)

Posted on May 12, 2013, 5:44 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Some answers!

by

20/20 Hindsight -- how's he to know he's going to be facing 40-50 folks who are deadly at close range?

-You mean like the 40-50 guys with machine guns and rocket launchers that he built the very first suit to escape from? Or the 40-50 heavily-armed Hammeroid drones he had to fight in the second movie? happy.gif

Whiplash lost -- why bother building something based on an easily-defeated concept?

-He didn't lose because of the whips. The whips damn near beat Tony twice and War Machine once. It's classic battlefield strategy to gather up the enemy's weapons- especially effective ones- and either adapt them for yourself or at least come up with a countermeasure. You;d at least have to agree that a countermeasure to those electrified whips would be worthwhile, and would have presumably been effective against the extremis baddies' hot hands.

Factories -- Mandarin would know where they were, and would target them as well, once he had any idea Stark was still breathing. Vacation homes -- much the same.

-Disagree. Note that in the movie there was no attack on Tony until he gave his home address.

And even if the Mandarin did know the location of all the factories, did he even have the resources to attack a dozen different installations? And consider the scale- think of what it would take to locate and attack one person in Boeing's main assembly facility in Washington. That place is like a hundred acres of heavy industry- the Mandarin's three helicopters took almost ten minutes to blow up just one house, while people standing in the driveway outside were essentially unaffected.

Jet plane -- see what happens to Air Force One in the film.

-That one of the extremis guys were already on. Tony couldn't call up a private charter to get him from that town in Tennessee to a major international airport, then jump on a private jet for England or Australia or Rio de Janeiro?

The point is, Tony's a multi-billionaire. It's highly unlikely that he wouldn't have multiple other homes, or battalions of security guards he could call, or a hot-line to the FBI.

Heck, we know he has Stark Tower in Manhattan, at which one presumes (going from the Avengers movie) he has at least one additional suit stashed.

Unless he could somehow create a bolthole which even he didn't know about (possible, but insanely difficult), there's nowhere he can run to where Mandarin and his can't find him.

-For the purposes of the movie, perhaps. But again, Stark Tower? Call up SHIELD and see if they have some spare room on the HeliCarrier? As for being "insanely difficult", where's Kim Kardashian right this second? She's not even trying to hide, and presumably there's a half-dozen photographers parked within a stone's throw, but do you know where she is?

Stark has serious trust issues -- even with himself; the number of people he would trust with SHTF plans -- well, one of them was in the hospital, and the other was getting snatched by the bad guys. Do The Math.

-NOW we're getting somewhere. He could very well be paranoid of a "mole" or other trap, but again, which would be better- to risk detection by showing up at one of his East Coast factories where he'd have access to proper equipment and materials, or have to go try to take on the bad guys with some toys made from Home Depot crap?

Nick Fury was very clear on this point in _The Avengers_: One member of the Avengers is hard enough to deal with[.]

-I didn't say call in the rest of the Avengers. I said ask for a berth on the HeliCarrier (or other suitable heavily-defended and heavily-fortified secure location.)

And I keep harping on this because that's SHIELD's job! Remember, the Mandarin isn't just Tony's problem. He's an international terrorist, who's been blowing things up and murdering one of the President's advisors live on hijacked national TV. One of SHIELD's primary objectives is to go after terrorists. They would at the very least want to debrief Tony- who was, of course, the latest target of an international terrorist. Okay, he says, let's do it in quiet, let 'em believe I'm dead, and loan me a soldering iron. I'll tell you everything I know.

SHIELD should have already been involved long before Tony was!

Doc.

Posted on May 12, 2013, 9:25 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Some answers!

by Anonymous Coward

Hmm a thought on the long range weapons or lack of other weapons in general.

Maybe Tony doesn't keep the suits fully loaded at all times. He does have friends in the Air Force and they don't keep there weapons loaded either. So maybe Rhodey or SHIELD convinced Tony of the safety of not keeping the already dangerous suits fully loaded for war.
In the previous movie we see Tony hand loading the Laser Module into the gauntlets.

Maybe with the damage there was no way for them to be loaded up with out Tony being in the same location as the suits.

Posted on May 13, 2013, 7:48 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Also entirely possible...

by

... Though still doesn't really keep with the character. After all, according to the movie he's got a sort of PTSD and is obsessively building more armor to "protect his loved ones" and all that.

Keep in mind that he was given very short notice about Stane's attack and was forced to use an obsolete reactor (for that matter, he was jumped by Stane in his own freakin' living room.) In the second movie, Whiplash's initial attack was completely unexpected, and Vanko's later phone call/threat also again forced Tony to rely on brand-new, as-yet-untested technology. In the Avengers, Tony had to swap suits right under the nose of the main bad guy- point in fact, he had to do an emergency deployment of the latest armor to not only save his life but to jump right back into combat.

For that matter, we can go all the way back to the very beginning of the first movie, where Tony's military motorcade is attacked out of the blue, with no warning.

And, as we saw in IM3, all the suits had their own arc reactors, which meant the suits were kept assembled and ready to be powered up. So put that all together and really, it doesn't make sense that he'd have all that armor, assembled, charged up and ready to go, but not armed, save for the most basic of weapons.

Even the "prototype"- the telepresence suit Tony called in when the house was attacked- while it said the missile launcher was "offline", it still had the missile onboard. He pulled it out, threw it at a chopper, and detonated it with a repulsor blast.

Doc.

Posted on May 13, 2013, 1:59 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Also entirely possible...

by CF

> ... Though still doesn't really keep with the character. After all, according to the movie he's got a sort of PTSD and is obsessively building more armor to "protect his loved ones" and all that.

Without going into the details: Yeah, Stark's pretty-thoroughly f***ed in the head, esp. after his borderline-H.-P.-Lovecraft moment in The Avengers -- that boy has failed one too many SAN checks. So his brain's pretty-much like Mk. 42: Most of the time it works, but it glitches out just often enough to make life interesting.

> Keep in mind that he was given very short notice about Stane's attack and was forced to use an obsolete reactor (for that matter, he was jumped by Stane in his own freakin' living room.) In the second movie, Whiplash's initial attack was completely unexpected, and Vanko's later phone call/threat also again forced Tony to rely on brand-new, as-yet-untested technology. In the Avengers, Tony had to swap suits right under the nose of the main bad guy- point in fact, he had to do an emergency deployment of the latest armor to not only save his life but to jump right back into combat.

> For that matter, we can go all the way back to the very beginning of the first movie, where Tony's military motorcade is attacked out of the blue, with no warning.

> And, as we saw in IM3, all the suits had their own arc reactors, which meant the suits were kept assembled and ready to be powered up. So put that all together and really, it doesn't make sense that he'd have all that armor, assembled, charged up and ready to go, but not armed, save for the most basic of weapons.

You'll notice in the above: Stark keeps getting ambushed, even after it's been hammered home to most of the audience "I need to be on full-time duty, 'cause I never know where the next hit's coming from". This suggests a weakness in Stark's thinking -- Stark himself is a very direct person ("I have a plan: Attack"; even in his present to Pepper in IM3, we see a distinct lack of subtlety), and it is the nature of a combatant to project his own abilities onto his foe, regardless of the foe's actual capabilities.* So Stark expects open frontal attacks; this leaves him vulnerable to the "dagger up the strap". I would go as far as to suggest: Deep down in places he doesn't talk about at parties, *he knows this*, and hasn't yet figured out how to rectify it. (This is where Happy comes in -- not as smart as Stark, but has an eye for the dagger-sinister which Stark knows he lacks.)

[*: Historical example: The USN and IJN in WW2. Japan claimed to have sunk US carriers which the US was able to bring home for repair. Why? Because Japan could not fathom that non-Japanese could have better damage-control; thus, "obviously", any unit which the Japanese would have been forced to abandon were it one of theirs would have to be abandoned by "inferior gaijin"; and thus, any enemy ship which took a certain number hits would "have to be" sunk. The US Navy, conversely, had the same problem, but it affected them differently -- look at the behavior of the USN during the invasion of the Philippines, particularly. "If the Japanese have carriers, that's where their naval air-power will be; thus, we have to destroy their carriers" -- and so that thundering buffoon Halsey swallows the bait hook, line, and sinker, leaving Taffy 3 to get the s*** kicked out of it by f***ing battleships and cruisers.]

> Even the "prototype"- the telepresence suit Tony called in when the house was attacked- while it said the missile launcher was "offline", it still had the missile onboard. He pulled it out, threw it at a chopper, and detonated it with a repulsor blast.

Yes -- and it's a comment on how unprepared for a sneak attack Stark was that he didn't have it active. See above re Stark's blind-spot concerning subtlety.

Posted on May 14, 2013, 1:07 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Some answers!

by CF

> You mean like the 40-50 guys with machine guns and rocket launchers that he built the very first suit to escape from? Or the 40-50 heavily-armed Hammeroid drones he had to fight in the second movie?

Which he defeated handily [ahem >wink.gif ] without the need of guns (I was going to say "firearms", but the lash-up he created to get away from the terrorists in IM1 had flamethrowers on each arm -- "fire-arms", you see... >wink.gif ).

>He didn't lose because of the whips. The whips damn near beat Tony twice and War Machine once. It's classic battlefield strategy to gather up the enemy's weapons- especially effective ones- and either adapt them for yourself or at least come up with a countermeasure. You;d at least have to agree that a countermeasure to those electrified whips would be worthwhile, and would have presumably been effective against the extremis baddies' hot hands.

A countermeasure to electrified whips is called "a ground wire". happy.gif

And just because one has access to one's foes' weapons does not mean one is going to adopt, or even adapt, them. A good example is The Second Great Unpleasantness -- the West acquired access to pretty-much everything Adolf et Cie. had at one point and another; and at no point did the West ever "clone" any of it -- everything Adolf had, the West either had a better version of already, or were working up a better version. The only examples of Adolf's stuff which did get cloned were swept wings on jet fighters, and some early liquid-fueled rockets. Everything else, the West was already doing, and better.

Stark's whipped [ahem happy.gif ] all his opposition so far with what he has -- unfortunately, this leads to a lack of development of new stuff rather than development of new stuff; it's only when one gets one's ass handed to him that one realizes "oh, s*** -- I have fallen behind", and starts developing new kit; the problem there being: Usually, at that point, it's too damned late. (Comparative analysis: Germany's jet program in WW2 vs. USA's F6F, and P-51, programs.)

>Disagree. Note that in the movie there was no attack on Tony until he gave his home address.

There was also no reason for Mandarin to attack Stark, until Stark called him out. I would suspect this was a case of Stark handing Mandarin a perfect opportunity to either kill Stark outright, or at the very least make Stark look skull-crushingly stupid for saying what he said on air. (First Rule of the Prankster: When the Prank goes off, the Prankster need only be present long enough to confirm it has been set off -- then he makes himself scarce; when the target flips out and goes looking for "who's responsible", he's going to focus on those who were in the room at the time, not on the guy who was down the hall and out the door.)

> And even if the Mandarin did know the location of all the factories, did he even have the resources to attack a dozen different installations? And consider the scale- think of what it would take to locate and attack one person in Boeing's main assembly facility in Washington. That place is like a hundred acres of heavy industry- the Mandarin's three helicopters took almost ten minutes to blow up just one house, while people standing in the driveway outside were essentially unaffected.

This assumes that was the extent of Mandarin's firepower -- he could as easily have seen a remote-operated airliner filled with ANFO to Tony's address, and taken the whole cliff out, not just the house. (Do not ask me how easily one can acquire a disused airliner, a remote-piloting package, and enough ANFO to orbit most of Los Angeles County -- we're on enough FedGov watch lists as it is.) And if we're talking about killing one man in a large facility, we're buying the entire facility along with him. In the words of a great man: "I say we take off, and nuke the site from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure." (And in Stark's case, even that may not be enough....)

Mandarin sent three missile-armed JetRangers because those blended in best with the cloud of news-choppers already surrounding the place, in keeping with his policy of "you don't see me until I'm on top of you".

>That one of the extremis guys were already on. Tony couldn't call up a private charter to get him from that town in Tennessee to a major international airport, then jump on a private jet for England or Australia or Rio de Janeiro?

Doubtful -- first, it appears he was cut off from most of Stark Industries' resources (he has a phone; he can't get a chunk of change wired to him?); second, given Mandarin's MO, if Stark does call for a private charter, chances are the pilot (or more likely the stewardess happy.gif ) is going to have a certain glow about him. Which I think is part of the subtext of the film: Stark *cannot trust anyone anymore*, outside of Pepper and Happy. FedGov can't be trusted (the VP is Miguel Ferrer? That's it -- we're f***ed happy.gif ); SHIELD doesn't trust him, and the feeling is reciprocated (of which more later); his company is letting the villains in through the front door (and they have no idea they're doing it, which is part of the Mandarin MO); Stark has to perform an "anti-_Cheers_": Go someplace where no one knows his name. (This is why so few people successfully "go off-grid"; they invariably fall into the same old behavioral patterns, which gives them away -- for the Dashiell Hammett fans, it's called "the Flitcraft Effect".)

>The point is, Tony's a multi-billionaire. It's highly unlikely that he wouldn't have multiple other homes, or battalions of security guards he could call, or a hot-line to the FBI.

See previous -- those homes can be found out, and "blown"; those battalions of security guards can be infiltrated; the FBI is part of FedGov, and what ever Stark tells them in the morning will be in Mandarin's hands by noon.

>Heck, we know he has Stark Tower in Manhattan, at which one presumes (going from the Avengers movie) he has at least one additional suit stashed.

See previous -- it's a known location of his, which means at the very least, it's being monitored.

Also: I got the impression Stark hasn't spend much time outside his house since _The Avengers_; and with his increasing inability to trust, he's going to leave a suit lying around 3,000 miles away?

>For the purposes of the movie, perhaps. But again, Stark Tower? Call up SHIELD and see if they have some spare room on the HeliCarrier?

See above -- SHIELD (and particularly Nick Fury) doesn't much care for Stark; they see him as a tool* to be used sparingly. Other than that, they don't want to know him or what he does. So: No, he can't "put a call in to SHIELD" -- or rather, he can, but he'll be told to f*** off.

[*: Specifically a Mosin-Nagant -- devastating, but a real pain to use for more than a brief interval; in fact, this describes most of the Avengers, hence Fury's comment to Loki:

"How desperate am I? You threaten my world with war. You steal a force you can't hope to control. You talk about peace and you kill 'cause it's fun. You have made me VERY desperate. You might not be glad that you did."

Or this exchange between Fury and the WSC:

World Security Council: "I don't think you understand what you've started -- letting the Avengers loose on this world. They're dangerous."

Nick Fury: "They surely are -- and the whole world knows it. Every world knows it."

World Security Council: "Was that the point of all this? A statement?"

Nick Fury: "A promise."]

> As for being "insanely difficult", where's Kim Kardashian right this second? She's not even trying to hide, and presumably there's a half-dozen photographers parked within a stone's throw, but do you know where she is?

No -- but then, I'm not looking for her or any of the STDs she's carrying with her. However, if I wanted to know, I could probably find out in a few hours -- and I'm not professional paparazzi. Someone like Mandarin, if he really wants to, would know what she was doing every moment of every day.

>NOW we're getting somewhere. He could very well be paranoid of a "mole" or other trap, but again, which would be better- to risk detection by showing up at one of his East Coast factories where he'd have access to proper equipment and materials, or have to go try to take on the bad guys with some toys made from Home Depot crap?

With respect: I suggest you do some reading on Resistance organizations in WW2 -- the best real-world example I can think of where people are in a situation where they absolutely cannot trust anyone completely, ever. That guy whose garage you use to hide downed fliers -- did the Gestapo visit him sometime while you were away? The lady whose flower shop provides ID flowers -- did Muller's Finest let her know they've been watching her mother the past two months?

Stark only has to screw up once, and Mandarin's boys kill him deader than polyester bell-bottoms. And Mandarin's boys *could be anyone, anywhere, anytime* -- you want to talk paranoia-inducement? Of course, "it ain't paranoia when someone's actually out to get you".

In a way, the "Home Depot crap" gives Stark an advantage: There's an old Mafia saying -- "three can keep a secret, if two are dead". When Stark goes the Home Depot route, there's only one person involved, and Stark knows exactly who that person is -- the one person he can trust absolutely, without question: Himself. It's actually a far better option than trying to use any of his factories or houses as bases -- Mandarin would know to look there. Middle-of-f***in'-nowhere, Tennessee? Why would Stark be there? It's well down the list of places to look for him.

>I didn't say call in the rest of the Avengers. I said ask for a berth on the HeliCarrier (or other suitable heavily-defended and heavily-fortified secure location.)

And any such location is likely to be blown, given Mandarin has an in at the top level of FedGov (The VPOTUS).

>And I keep harping on this because that's SHIELD's job! Remember, the Mandarin isn't just Tony's problem. He's an international terrorist, who's been blowing things up and murdering one of the President's advisors live on hijacked national TV. One of SHIELD's primary objectives is to go after terrorists. They would at the very least want to debrief Tony- who was, of course, the latest target of an international terrorist. Okay, he says, let's do it in quiet, let 'em believe I'm dead, and loan me a soldering iron. I'll tell you everything I know.

And the extent of what Tony knows: "He nearly killed one of the few friends I have; and blew up my house." On the Usefulness Scale, this is "Jeremy Clarkson with a hammer attempting open-heart surgery" level.

> SHIELD should have already been involved long before Tony was!

See above re Stark's relations with Fury and SHIELD; and how thoroughly Mandarin has infiltrated various gov't branches -- you think SHIELD wasn't crawling with "glowworms"? Why do you suppose SHIELD wasn't able to find Mandarin any more than anyone else (ignoring fourth-wall reasons like "the plot demanded it")?

Some more historical reading: The Mafia in the '20s and '30s, and how they operated; and how thoroughly the Soviets had infiltrated Western Gov't in WW2 -- if it was said in Berlin in the morning, it was in London by noon, and in Moscow by evening. It doesn't take much to infiltrate an organization; and so long as nothing galactically stupid is done, said infiltration can continue for decades unnoticed.

Now, remember what "mandarin" means: "The Power Behind The Throne". Not "ON" the Throne -- Behind it. Mandarin's stock-in-trade is Infiltration, and Manipulation. (And before you tell me how good SHIELD's internal security is: Hawkeye in The Avengers. >happy.gif ) Chances are, Mandarin has SHIELD wired for sound, and is able to evade them easily. Stark Industries -- much the same. But to infiltrate one guy -- good luck....

Posted on May 13, 2013, 2:27 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

They seemed to neglect a few things...

by Renegade_Azzy

But in a joined movieverse, there will always be things let out. Like where most of the other avengers were at the time.

Or how like in the Avengers or the Hulk... NY was getting torn up, and no Spidey or F4 to be found (stupid licensing....)


I guess dont look for a hulkbuster armor anytime soon.

Posted on May 12, 2013, 8:14 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I had a weird opinion on the movie

by FireFrenzy

Everything was awesome, but i had this weird thought (which is now apperantly maybe true) that they added the clean slate protocol, and everything after, as a sort of "ooh shit we need some kind of plausible no sequel ending"

Posted on May 13, 2013, 3:03 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

With a "Tony Stark will return" at the very-very end? :) (n/t)

by Nohbody

.

Posted on May 13, 2013, 7:37 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Not only that...

by Jeb Hoge

What material were the Extremis people's clothes made out of? That DHS agent chick should've burned them right off...talk about hot!

Posted on May 13, 2013, 5:37 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I just finished watching it - Commentary

by Someone

Tony Stark is not a fool. JARVIS couldn't control the long range weapons to prevent a Skynet problem. That doesn't explain why he didn't use them, but does explain some of the hand to hand.

The travel time is simple. The suits can go suborbital. Thirty minutes coast to coast. They just can't do it with Stark in the suit, because the pilot can't take vacuum.

More problematic is the trip from Tennessee to Miami for the #42 suit. It's too long a flight for the time, and suborbital doesn't work.

The charging part may have been a bootstrap issue. A 12 volt battery is a much better supply of DC voltage than an AC adapter, and it doesn't mention if it was changed out.

The War Machine armor was compromised from the beginning. AIM had it in their clutches and adjusted the operating system. Stark was able to use it to link into AIM's files. That, of course, opens up another loophole where they couldn't just order it to dump Rhodes. Maybe an internal lock of some kind.

I see the Clean Slate slightly differently. These are almost all older suits. I didn't count, but there were less than 40, because of the ones already destroyed. IM1 accounted for one, IM2 killed some more, and Avengers took out some more. Three to four were lost with the house. That leaves about 25+/-, of which only five to ten were latest generation.

A clean slate is a new starting point. The old stuff on the board is wiped away, and there is a nice fresh surface to start anew. Besides, we know Stark will be back in Avengers 2, and he'll need a suit or three for it.

**After having his suit jacked in IM2 and in IM3, what's the likelihood that Rhodes will let anyone else near the War MAchine suit except Stark?

Posted on May 13, 2013, 6:11 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Some good points...

by

... But really, we've started wandering pretty far off the reservation by this point. happy.gif

Even my presumptions that he'd have fully-armed suits (or that the waldoes could load them, if they were stored empty) is a lot of supposition.

However, you bring up one of my earlier points; if Tony were worried enough about the possibility of JARVIS going rogue, to the point of not storing the armor with anything more than rudimentary weapons (the repulsors are part of the flight/guidance/maneuvering, and can't really be removed from the system) then he would also undoubtedly have multiple safeguards and/or backdoors, not only to prevent that (or stop it if it occurs) but also to prevent the suits from being taken over either by remote control (War Machine in IM2) or physically (the MkII in IM2, and the Patriot in IM3.)

If one presumes logical consistency, we can't have both Tony leaving the armor unarmed in case of takeover, and leaving the armor unprotected in the event of takeover.

The answer to it all, of course, is that the end battle would have been pretty anticlimactic if Tony pulled an Indy and just lasered Killian into fifteen discreet pieces from a hundred yards out. I'm sure there's a Trope for that- It Can't End Too Quickly, or The Final Battle Has To Look Cool or something. happy.gif

That said, your suborbital trajectory suggestion is probably spot on, I hadn't considered that. However, it, too assumes a minimum velocity of 1Km/s, or about 2200 MPH- which even if sustained throughout the flight time, would still be well over an hour to cover the distance. That's something like Mach 3.5, and we saw from the first movie, at least the MkIII suit couldn't outrun an F22 (rough top speed of about 1400 mph.)

To make the trip in the time shown in the movie (give or take) the suits would have to be able to go an order of magnitude faster- 10,000 to 15,000 MPH.

And really, if they could achieve that kind of speed, they wouldn't need weapons at all- send one on a flyby of that cargo dock and the shockwave alone would wreck the cranes, pulp most of the extremis soldiers and set most flammables on fire.

Better yet, have a sacrificial suit FOBS the dock at supraorbital speeds as a kinetic kill vehicle. Even if a suit only weighed a few hundred pounds, the yield would be in the multi-kiloton range, utterly annihilating the entire installation and all but vaporizing the bad guys.

Well, and Pepper too. happy.gif

As for the charging issue, I don't buy it. Admittedly that was a recurring plot device in the comics pretty much from day one- the arc reactor was a movie invention, while the comic suits have virtually always been powered by plain ol' batteries. Typically the suits have been said to be solar powered (micro solar cells built into the "skin" of the armor) but would frequently run out of juice (or at least run low) and Tony would be forced to find anything from a wall outlet to a set of local high-tension lines.

Of course, the suit could also make use of many types of energy based weapons- in early books, baddies like Electro and the Living Laser would just charge up his suit with their attacks.

So the screenwriters and director of IM3 could, admittedly, have fallen back on the older comic book canon, but that ignores the previous two movies entirely. The first movie centered around the arc reactor and how it was vital to power the suits- which is actually true. We could build something like the Iron Monger today (Stane's big suit) but it'd have to be tethered by very large cables to an even larger truck-mounted generator in order to operate.

IE, the suits are powered by an arc reactor.

In the second movie, we see that the suits don't necessarily need Tony's "onboard" reactor- Rhodey is seen removing a reactor from the MkII suit- but they still all revolve around the reactor. Vanko's whips are powered by one (and shut down the second Tony pops it out) and from the banter, it's heavily implied both the drones and Vanko's big suit also use reactors.

Now, I can see the modular/telepresence suit, in it's free-form, self-mobile configuration, needing to rely on batteries to power the individual subassemblies until it can connect to the wearer's reactor, but really, if Tony's wearing the suit, it should have all the power it needs. AC vs. DC doesn't matter when your power source has three gigawatts on tap. happy.gif

And for that matter, it was the original crude cave-built prototype that was stated to produce 3GW- the second model (in the same movie) was implied to be considerably more powerful, and the new-element reactor from the second movie was implied to be far more powerful still. So, what, 5GW? 10? ... keeping in mind that the Large Hadron Collider "only" needs 120 megawatts to run- the first crude reactor would have been able to run the LHC about 25 times over. happy.gif

But anyway, long-winded story short, all the problems with the movie boil down to bad writing. happy.gif The first two movies, I felt, were more in tune with the concept and character, and the thid was very much a Michael Bay does Transformers type of thing. happy.gif

Doc.

Posted on May 14, 2013, 3:21 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Some good points...

by CF

> If one presumes logical consistency, we can't have both Tony leaving the armor unarmed in case of takeover, and leaving the armor unprotected in the event of takeover.

Unless, as I've pointed out, Stark has a "blind spot" concerning ambushes (which, as we've seen throughout the films, he does). happy.gif

As to the "flight time from Chattanooga to Miami" issue: It's never really specified how long the flights take. I had the impression the events were "condensed due to time constraints" -- it actually took longer (and the villains were in no especial hurry -- why should they be?), but having "Blues Brother in the elevator" scenes would be impractical (or, for fans of much older media: Ray Ellington's "Man, you said that thirteen hours ago!" happy.gif ).

Posted on May 15, 2013, 11:18 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

And what about Killian

by OXX

And his ability to apparently breathe fire at will? How was that not addressed nor used again in the final battle?

OXX

Posted on May 14, 2013, 5:54 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: And what about Killian

by CF

It appeared the fire-breathing took a few seconds to [ahem] warm up; Stark never gave him that kind of time.

Posted on May 15, 2013, 11:19 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

thats all thats wrong?

by wolfteller

what about the fact that he built 35 new sets of armor on little or no sleep and we only get a good look at about 8 of them. the rest are simply pinpricks or arc reactors and repulsor thrusters. and before we can explore all of them, he calls up the clean slate program. i almost cried.

i really really hope that the armor vault is on the DVD extras..

Posted on May 19, 2013, 7:18 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Is anyone else having trouble getting to the comic?

by Pilchard123

For the past couple of weeks Iv'e had intermittent trouble getting to the comic. It usually went away after an hour or two, but now it seems that I can't get tohttp://www.the-whiteboard.com/ at all. This forum is also playing up a bit - images aren't loading properly.

Posted on May 11, 2013, 1:45 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

The images that don't load

by Pilchard123

The images that don't load are coming - or not, as the case may be - from docsmachine.com. Are the two sites hosted on the same machine or by the same people, does anyone know?

Posted on May 11, 2013, 1:47 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Yet more stuff that I forgot

by Pilchard123

I'm in the UK. Neither FF or Chrome can access the sites. isup.me says the-whiteboard.com is okay but docsmachine.com is down. Make of that what you will.


This forum needs an edit function.

Posted on May 11, 2013, 1:50 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Try accessing though TOR

by LostinAPhogg

Having similar problems -- very slow response or FF-cannot-locate-server --
with a few other sites (though not TWB) some time ago, I tried accessing the
problem sites through TOR, the anonymizing-proxy-chain system, which appeared
to work normally. After a few days, things all went back to as-usual, and
have remained so since then.

Poking around various Net-geek sites turned up reports of massive DDOS attacks
at about the same time, which suggests that the underlying problem was domain
name servers at some node on the Net close to the DDOS target being saturated.
If you're unable to access only a few sites, that may be the reason.

TOR presumably works around the problem by -- so to speak -- getting at the
otherwise blocked Web sites from their "other" sides.

So you might consider trying access through TOR, which can be had free off the
Web -- just google the name. But in any event, the problem will most likely
mysteriously disappear in a few days, as mysteriously as it appeared.

Posted on May 11, 2013, 2:44 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I get that sometimes

by Urban Werebear

Generally, when the browser I'm using can't find the site, I hit refresh and it comes up on the second try.

Then again, I'm in the US, and in an area without much in the way of targets for malicious hackers. Your mileage may vary.

Posted on May 11, 2013, 8:53 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

dns issue?

by inteliwasp

have you tried an alternate dns service like google?
https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/

i have found that some ISP dns services get a little wonky and never update at times

Posted on May 12, 2013, 9:05 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Opera Mini gives error 408

by Anonymous Coward

Don't know, how long, I've started using it on April 29 or 30. Opera Mini accesses sites through its own proxy. Direct access works fine for me.

Posted on May 13, 2013, 11:58 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

TWB 5/10/2013

by Robin Bobcat

snrk

'High-level tourney stuff' indeed!

... I have a mental image of Doc/Roger using liquid helium in a tank, causing the gun to go 'Peep! Peep!' when fired...

Posted on May 10, 2013, 5:38 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Well in all due respect...

by Wolf

Yeah, she needs to learn a bit more. But a CO2 tank doe's require a bit more knowledge then an O2 tank. Don't forget you have to weight it.

Posted on May 10, 2013, 5:55 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

CO2...

by

For some reason I get this mental image of Doc demonstrating the way to fill CO2 as...taking a deep breath and blowing into it as hard as he can. Trying off the stem afterwards being optional. wink.gif

Posted on May 10, 2013, 8:39 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Doubling the capacity at the same time N/T

by eddi



Posted on May 10, 2013, 12:01 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

They beat doc to funny c02 tank emptying...refill joke..

by

http://www.break.com/pranks/clumsy-guy-gets-smoked-by-the-smoke-machine-2442472

Posted on May 11, 2013, 4:13 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

What I see in the strip is...

by Louios-Paul

The girls are getting "normalised" to Doc's lifestyle as they are now having normal shop talk in the middle of an explanation to what appears to be a rather "traumatic" experience (abject horror).

Posted on May 10, 2013, 10:23 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

What I like in the strip is that the moment Sandy looks away ...

by eighttailfox

Swampy dives muzzle first into the box instead of using the chop-sticks.

Posted on May 10, 2013, 7:33 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Must be some good Chinese food

by

Hey, if it's good enough that he doesn't even bother with the fork (and that Swampy isn't a total slob), must be some awesome Chinese. But Pirta's inability to tell the difference between a CO2 canister and a hopper (never played paintball, wish to eventually, and I know the difference)is disconcerting. Hope she learns fast.

Posted on May 10, 2013, 9:45 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Munch, Munch, Munch

by

It's those water chestnuts he's after.

Posted on May 11, 2013, 6:34 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Must be some good Chinese food

by

Actually, Pirta's been out in the field a few times...and she's not confusing a CO2 tank with a hopper, she's confusing a CO2 tank with...whichever tank you normally use with the fill station (regular compressed air? I haven't much clue myself).

Posted on May 11, 2013, 7:51 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

You got it. CO2 tanks need a little more TLC when loading. N/T

by eddi



Posted on May 11, 2013, 3:20 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: TWB 5/10/2013

by Xodiac

Was it only me who interpreted this as Pirta having experience, having worked at Doc's, at filling up tanks - as in, armored vehicles - and is confused at having to fill up a tank of CO2?

Or is that the interpretation I'm supposed to get? Not a paintballer, so I can't think of any other interpretation, tbh.

Posted on May 11, 2013, 2:25 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Air vs CO2

by Bruce

CO2 tanks are low-end, rank amateur kit for paintballers and compressed air tanks are the higher-end tourney stuff. Pirta's only seen compressed air tanks until now, since Doc's customers are good paintballers, but after how ever long she'd been in the shop, she still doesn't know the kit and assumes the CO2 tank is the high end kit.

Posted on May 12, 2013, 1:06 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Air vs CO2

by

Which is probably the other reason Swampy went nose-diving into his lunch--to keep his muzzle shut from saying something nasty. wink.gif Good thing Rainy wasn't around...

Posted on May 12, 2013, 8:40 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Slight disagreement

by MarkT

You can be a good paintballer and still use CO2. Compressed air is more consistent and has a few other advantages over CO2 but being a good or bad paintballer is more about skill and attitude than equipment.

Posted on May 12, 2013, 6:45 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Actually. . .

by Mike

You have to remember the setting. This is Alaska. CO2 tanks are going to be a lot less common up there because the cold weather makes them much less effective. It practically forces you to use compressed air.

Posted on May 13, 2013, 9:12 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

CO2 the only thing available in some places.

by NoDakNative

I have to agree that it depends on where you live. I don't paintball but know plenty of people that do and everyone uses CO2 in the Dakotas, even the serious guys. I knew of propane powered markers but I had never heard of HPA until this comic. Everything in the stores here is CO2 that I have seen and nobody I know has ever talked about anything other than CO2 or Propane.

Posted on May 15, 2013, 7:09 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I wonder...

by

if the "dew" that they're drinking is stock or some of Doc's homemade?

Posted on May 13, 2013, 12:31 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Any advice on screwdriver bit sets?

by MarkT

I need a screwdriver bit set with a wide range of bit sizes not types. Many of the sets include a large number of types (torx, security, etc.) but only have 3 sizes of flat blade. I need a large number of blade sizes but not types. The closest thing I have found is a gunsmith set. Any other suggestions?

Posted on May 10, 2013, 5:12 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

ifixit

by

As long as your not looking for phyiscally large examples of these types of bits, the kit from ifixit isn't a bad deal.

http://www.ifixit.com/Tools/Pro-Tech-Toolkit/IF145-072-1



Posted on May 10, 2013, 5:15 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Brownells

by Renegade_Azzy

Brownells has some nice hollow ground sets for gunsmithing, and a super warranty. The only thing a tech person might need that they dont carry is Japanese industrial Standard, but you can find them a few other places.

Posted on May 10, 2013, 5:49 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

my bad

by

Guess I need more coffee. I thought he wanted smallish ones and not the larger stuff. Yes, Brownells has awesome stuff in that case.

Posted on May 10, 2013, 9:41 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Does it have to be a bit set?

by Mark F

Wiha makes excellent screwdriver sets in small sizes. There are alwo any number of "jewlers" screwdriver sets in varying levels of quality.

If it does need to be a bit set there are some 1/8" hex interchangeable bit screwdrivers to be had out there (I got one from a big-box store around the holidays a few years back) that weemed to be of decent quality.

Posted on May 10, 2013, 10:25 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Doesn't have to be a bit set but a bit set seems more likely to meet my needs

by MarkT

I have need a wide range of sizes so a bit set seems to be the best bet.


Posted on May 10, 2013, 11:16 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Second on recomending Wiha

by

For small screw drivers Wiha are some of the best, and if you are set on exchangeable blades they make them also.
http://www.wihatools.com/pro_System4.htm

Posted on May 12, 2013, 8:08 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Get a Boxer BX-100

by Mike

The last bit kit you will ever need. The Boxer BX-100 has every oddball bit you can ever imagine.

Posted on May 13, 2013, 9:14 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Who needs a 3D printer when you got time and skill?

by Renegade_Azzy

http://improguns.blogspot.ca/2013/02/glock-style-self-loading-pistol.html

Supposedly made from sawdust and epoxy.

Posted on May 10, 2013, 4:02 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

As for a test firing...

by

... I'll be standing...






Waaaaaaaay over here, outside the blast radius.

Interesting note: it's chambered in 9x18, aka 9mm Makarov as opposed to 9x19. (No, the two do not interchange!)

Posted on May 10, 2013, 7:21 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Thats because

by Renegade_Azzy

At least as far as i can tell, it was made in Russia, or in the general area. 9x18 is much more common up there.

I personally would shoot it after testing somewhere with a rest and a rope. my only concern would be the steel of the barrel.

Posted on May 13, 2013, 5:47 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: That's because...

by

Yep. I was just illuminating that for the un-educated. happy.gif

I would want to take even more stern measures, like a blast shield if I were to test fire it. happy.gif



Posted on May 13, 2013, 9:06 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Oh, hey, an alternative to the food-tray shiv!

by

Inmates are going to love this one when they find out, especially if someone posts how to make ammo as well...

Posted on May 10, 2013, 8:35 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Ammo for cons

by eddi

Usually stolen (if you are somewhere the guards are armed) or smuggled in. Desperation measures include home-made blackpowder or crushed match heads and a bolt undersized to the "barrel". Usual results from those is a loud BOOM! but not always when it was hoped for.

Posted on May 10, 2013, 12:09 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

TWB 05/08/2013

by a haven't name and never had :-(

Was Doc cloned by the beer replicator and more Doc clones appeared at many places in whole city?

Posted on May 8, 2013, 5:54 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Don't even THINK that.

by Ketira

Can you imagine the amount of mayhem that would cause? Eesh....

Posted on May 8, 2013, 6:03 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Too late...

by Nighthawke

And it's making my chaos side grin really big!

Posted on May 8, 2013, 6:29 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Related image...

by

[linked image]

Posted on May 9, 2013, 10:54 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

But I LIKE mayhem... n/t

by Urban Werebear

I did say, no text. You were warned. wink.gif

Posted on May 9, 2013, 6:28 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

The question is...

by Grumley

what is in Doc's pants that's causing such a ruckus, and why is it growing so huge? Love Sandy's expression in panel 3. Just has that exasperated "I just had to ask." look.

Posted on May 8, 2013, 7:32 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: The question is...

by

'what is in Doc's pants that's causing such a ruckus, and why is it growing so huge?' ...didn't we already answer that one at the elevator with the trauma? happy.gif

Posted on May 8, 2013, 12:06 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Well, it certainly...

by Grumley

answered what (or rather, who) was NOT in Doc's pants!

Posted on May 8, 2013, 12:42 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Enter fire dept with proton packs!!!!!!!

by

Nt....

Posted on May 8, 2013, 7:31 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

The Pants...

by

...might not be growing in and of themselves.

Just the chaos they're causing. (I REALLY want to know how a pair of unoccupied pants can cause that much chaos... odor? Running around on their own, kicking things?

Posted on May 8, 2013, 9:27 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

The "Bad Brewery" smell is reaching paint-peeling level

by eddi

The sun is up and the warmth is driving a reaction that, given it's Doc property, is likely to end in an explosion, a fire, both or as most feared getting up and running right into the local water supply to cleanse itself.

Posted on May 8, 2013, 10:25 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I thought the Mythbusters...

by Urban Werebear

...already did the "Exploding Pants" thing.

On the other hand, Maybe they authorities are just thinking that the pants might explode, and are trying to get everyone out past minimum safe distance.

Posted on May 9, 2013, 6:34 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Plausible in these circumstances I think.

by

Of course they are somewhat hampered in their efforts by not having any clue what the minimum safe distance is... California might be in the clear.

Posted on May 9, 2013, 11:33 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Plausible in these circumstances I think.

by eighttailfox

Florida seems like a safer bet. Maybe Iceland or Germany. There is always Australia.

Posted on May 9, 2013, 7:24 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Quarantine versus evacuation

by Bruce

The National Guard said they had quarantined six blocks already, not evacuated. That means outbreak, not explosion.

Posted on May 10, 2013, 4:25 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

It's the Return of the Fridgemonster! n/t

by Torinir



Posted on May 9, 2013, 12:08 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Doc's Trousers....they've gone Wrong!

by

Now we just need the Wensleydale cheese...

Posted on May 8, 2013, 11:46 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

^^Hah! =D NT

by Mawson



Posted on May 8, 2013, 4:27 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Only if a penguin is involved. NT

by MephitMark



Posted on May 8, 2013, 8:02 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Wensleydale! *taps fingertips*

by

http://tinyurl.com/czecvzm

Posted on May 9, 2013, 10:02 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

And.... Sandy breaks the 4th wall.

by Der Alta



Posted on May 9, 2013, 5:42 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

re: Sandy breaks the fourth wall

by

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

Posted on May 9, 2013, 2:24 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

A new gun for Doc. Includes a spork.

by Spoon

This gun is a bit overkill but I don't Doc would mind too much.
http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?products_id=36551

Also the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An-nMlDeApI

Warning! This gun includes a spork. Sporks are evil. Remember that.

Posted on May 7, 2013, 5:10 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Not juat an evil spork, an evil TACTICAL spork N/T and running for the exit

by eddi



Posted on May 7, 2013, 9:24 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Also look at this one.

by Le_KiD_Qc

Make me think of this one!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhc7YSuepNE&playnext=1&list=PLB328D4CB4D15E1FA

They also have a video where they shoot with it.

Le_KiD_Qc

Posted on May 8, 2013, 9:51 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I am a huge fan of the Tactical spork attachment system...

by FireFrenzy

Pictinny rails are for losers, lets just use clear tape because thats for MEN!

Posted on May 9, 2013, 10:38 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Somewhere back in the archives...

by Junk Box 99

I can't trawl fast enough to find it, but, "I ran out of places to bolt stuff." happy.gif



Posted on May 10, 2013, 6:08 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: A new gun for Doc. Includes a spork.

by OlPaint

A few other options in tacticoolery:
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

Douglas


Posted on May 10, 2013, 9:39 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

SPQRK

by CF

http://manlyexcellence.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14152 ....

Posted on May 10, 2013, 11:33 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

CNC machine parts - jog dial

by

Hey guys,

Does anyone know where to find a replacement jog dial for a CNC machine? I'm looking for one with a really nice detent "click" feel to it as you rotate the dial. I'm putting it together for a lab, so I'd like to buy from a store with a receipt so I don't have any issues with reimbursement. Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

Posted on May 7, 2013, 12:08 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

often the detent is a function of the 'switch'.

by Maker of Toys

(or encoder)

and not the actual dial.

the important question here is what sort of electrical sensing feature the CNC unit in question employs.

Once you figure that out, a call do Digikey, Mouser, Allied, or Newark Electronics should net you a direct replacement. A little fiddling with the search tools at Digikey or Newark (Allied's SUCKS, and Mouser just doesn't seem to think like I do) might find you one you like better, with an equivalent electrical action.

As an example: 30 sec of searching digikey for
"rotary encoder"

and picking 'detents = yes' 'panel mount', between 6 and 32 steps/revolution, 200k+ cycle life (hey, it's gonna be a lab rat. . .) and winnowing from there yielded the following: (you might have to copy-and-paste to get the link to work)

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/dksearch/dksus.dll?FV=fff4001e%2Cfff80033%2Ca4019a%2C1140004%2C1140291%2C6280001%2C62c0001%2C62c0011%2C62c0012%2C62c0013%2C62c0014%2C62c001a%2C62c001f%2C62c0020%2C62c0021%2C62c0023%2C8840089%2C884008a%2C884008c%2C884008e%2Ce040002%2Ce040003%2Ce040004&k=rotary+encoder&vendor=0&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ptm=0&fid=0&quantity=0&PV897=4&PV897=2

most (all) of those will be optical, (put 'em in a sealed box!) and all expect TTL power and signal levels (0..5VDC)

The datasheets should list the 'detent' or 'operating' forces, so that you can compare them without having them all in hand.

A Bournes unit would be my choice, but others have had good luck with Greyhill. If you're really fortunate, there will be a brick-and-mortar electronics house in your area that might stock some of these, and you can go try them.

Have fun!


Posted on May 7, 2013, 12:47 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Lathe Porn - Pen

by Robin Bobcat

Thought the machinists here might appreciate this video on making your own pen:

http://vimeo.com/64856869

Posted on May 7, 2013, 10:06 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Not just Machinists...

by


Very nice!

Posted on May 7, 2013, 4:28 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Not Just the Machining

by

I'm impressed by all of it.
The lathe work.
The Shop.
The production and presentation.
The annotations on the video. How do you do that?
Very nice!

Posted on May 11, 2013, 6:46 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Old circuit boards and solenoids

by

I've got an idea for modifying electronic markers for use by handicapped people by rigging an alternate trigger mechanism onto the circuit board. Unfortunately electronic markers are not cheap. If anyone has some OLD MARKERS or even just DISCARDED CIRCUIT BOARDS for sale/giveaway that I could use for R&D I would greatly appreciate it.

Posted on May 7, 2013, 8:07 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

For a good cause

by

I have a DP G3 with a bad solenoid (I think) that I just can't be bothered to fix (again!). I would be happy to give it up for a good ccause. Email me if you can put my old marker to use.

I'm more than a little curious what you have in mind.

Posted on May 8, 2013, 3:13 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I've got a Tboarded Dragonfly

by

I've got a T boarded Dragon fly autococker knockoff that is yours if you cover shipping. It is messing the ball detent and who ever drilled it for eyes had to take a second pass but it might work for proof of concept.

Posted on May 11, 2013, 7:22 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

sandy?

by

943467_10201154831132175_167870651_n.jpg

Posted on May 6, 2013, 11:57 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

5/6?

by

As of 0244 EDT, the strip didn't post???????

Posted on May 5, 2013, 10:45 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Patience, Padawan.

by jwhouk

2:54 AM EDT is still 11:54 PM yesterday in Alaska.

Doc updates a bit later than some of us in the Eastern part of the continental US would like, but he will update.

Unless he got eaten by an angry walrus.

Posted on May 6, 2013, 12:21 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

No walruses...

by

... Just the usual somewhat-busy weekend and the complete and utter lack of a good idea for a proper strip.

And man, I've had writer's block before, but today was baaaad. Not just a lack of good ideas, it was a lack of any idea at all.

Like I mentioned a few weeks ago, sometimes I have trouble "shifting gears", generally meaning between the shop work (the technical/mechanical stuff) and the comic strip (artsy-fartsy stuff.) And since I've got a couple of fairly complex R&D projects on the table that I'm very excited about... well, the more I'm interested, the harder it is to shift away.

And yes, I know. I reeeeeeaaaally need to build up- and maintain- a buffer.

Doc.

Posted on May 6, 2013, 4:05 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Glad for the lack of walruses

by jwhouk

Yeah, having a buffer would work. Maybe at least a storyline sketched out.

Posted on May 6, 2013, 4:23 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

What about all those ideas people contributed a few years ago?

by MarkT

Did you use all the ideas people contributed or were they not to your liking?


Posted on May 6, 2013, 8:00 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Ideas vs. suggestions...

by

Well, there's sort of a difference between ideas and suggestions, and an actual script.

Guilders and readers have sent me lots of ideas- and yes, I'm still using them on occasion, and have plans to use others before too long as well. But relatively few have sent me anything like a script.

Which is fine- like for the "Big Red Button" strips, that's what I was after. I wasn't necessarily looking for a step-by-step script, but just ideas of various forms of mayhem I could inflict on Roger. happy.gif

The problem is, ideas, suggestions or vague outlines don't always help. I have, for example, a pretty good-sized list of punchlines. Funny lines, retorts, sarcastic comments or whatever, that while amusing on their own ("... are you trying to turn me on?") naturally work better when given a proper situation or context.

Except I don't have that context. Last night, I had the setting (the office) the characters (Sandy at least, talking to someone who isn't either Doc or Roger, to help differentiate the setting from the previous day's strip/setting) but that was about it. I could have them talking about virtually anything, from Swampy being amused at Sandy seeing Doc in the elevator, to something entirely unrelated like "you want to go get some lunch?"

But, like I said, my mind was a complete blank. I tried to think of virtually anything but the stuff I'm working on out in the shop, but I absolutely could not do it. I'm still having trouble right now.

Part of that is, of course, the rapid onset of good weather up here. Like for most of you, spring is late, but some reasonably warm, sunny weather has finally arrived, so on top of the in-shop stuff I both need and want to do, I have dozens of things I both want and need to do outside. (Car mods and repairs, shop mods and upgrades, go see Iron Man... happy.gif )

Long story short, yeah, I have lots of material. But it's not always easy to translate that material into a finished joke.

Doc.

Posted on May 6, 2013, 6:10 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

not to throw a monkey wrench in...

by Louis-Paul

Saw IM3 on Saturday.

Better than the first two.
I won't spoil it but everything you may have read about The Mandarin, both in rumours and the comic series itself, forget it.

The only thing I'll say is they rewritten it like they did Spiderman went from radioactive to genetic. It make sense and it works as a story.

go see ASAP.

Posted on May 6, 2013, 7:02 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Comics are MADE of monkey wrenches...

by

No worries, I fully expected as much.

While I am indeed a comic fanboy, I'm not necessarily the rabid, drooling fanboy. Like back when the first Spider-Man movie came out; I thought it did pretty good at keeping within the "spirit" of the original comics, but still updating it for modern times.

And really, it HAD to be. Spidey came out in what, 1964? That's forty years of comics to stuff into a 90-minute movie. I didn't care that the "radioactive" spider became a "genetically enhanced" spider, for example- it's just modernizing.

And Iron Man has already been "modernized"- or retconned if you wish- at least three times. Originally Stark was captured during the Vietnam War, then later the Gulf War, and more recently Afghanistan- and the movie, of course, follows suit (pun not intended)and centers it in an unnamed-but-heavily-implied-to-be Afghanistan as well.

The Mandarin has been an Iron Man bad guy since at least the very early seventies- the rings were originally "ancient Chinese magic", and later retconned to ancient alien artifacts.

And there's an element of being "politically correct" in here too- US Movies are very popular in China, and naturally that's a massive market for the Studios. While I don't necessarily agree with most forms of "political correctness", the studios have to consider the idea of making the main bad guy Chinese- if that makes the film bomb in China (like a lot of anti-war films do here in the US) that could mean the loss of millions in profits.

Yes, it'd be nice if the film could stay true to the books, but sometimes reality intrudes.

Now, that said, from the trailers I watched (I have not yet read any reviews, so please don't spoil it for me just yet) I'm seeing a lot of cues from some of the last comics I bought back when I was collecting.

A little backstory: Years ago, I was a big-time comic freak. Not really a collector, I read some of them to tatters and never worried about keeping anything in "mint" condition. I read 'em for the stories and generally enjoyed the hell out of them.

... That is, until both Marvel and DC started doing the multi-title crossovers where you had to buy literally fifteen issues across eight titles to get the entire story. Worse, books started to cost upwards of $5 each, with a bunch of "limited edition" foil covers and the like, all of which were obvious and blatant attempts to suck more and more cash out of the buyer.

On top of that, there was no proper comic book store in my area- I bought 'em off the magazine racks. And the local distributors didn't carry all the titles. The upshot there was that, even if I wanted to buy all fifteen issues across eight titles, I couldn't. They weren't all sold here.

So the "newest" books in my collection often tend to be partial stories. I might only have the first three installments of some big X-Men storyline, but I have no idea how it ends since it turned into a crossover with some other title. In once case, for a storyline that I think probably took about eight or ten books across at least four titles, I have something like #2, #3, #6 #8 and #9 (just to throw out an example.)

Anyway, for that and other reasons, I eventually stopped reading them, let alone collecting 'em.

But, one of the last ones I did buy, involved a couple of Iron Man books where he battles the Mandarin in China. I know that the comic Mandarin is different from the movie's "Ten Rings" version, sure. But I'm still seeing more than a few cues from the plotline...

That and I could actually recognize some of the other suits at the end of the trailer. happy.gif

Years ago (here we go again) Marvel put out a really cool non-story comic called the Iron Manual. It was kind of like the Punisher's War Journal books that just showed off some of the guns and weapons he used, in this case showing some of the technology behind the Iron Man suits.

The technology was, of course, quite fanciful (not as bad as a chest-mounted heatless nuclear reactor, though happy.gif ) but they did actually try and make some of it fairly believable- and the drawings and cutaways were way cool to the gearhead geek.

Anyway, one of the entries documented all the different suits Tony has had over the years- as in, the actual, documented suits from the comics, not just some made-up ones just to fill the space in the book.

Now, I don't know if they're mentioned in the movie or called by name (again, no spoilers please, it'll be a couple more days before I can get away to see it) but one's clearly based off the mid-90s "silver centurion" red-and-silver suit, another looks a lot like the Hulkbuster armor (apart from the color, anyway) and a third looks like his "stealth" armor.

Okay, enough rabid-fanboyism. happy.gif Yeah, I've heard it's good- if not the best of the three movies- but I'd go see it even if it wasn't. happy.gif

Doc.

Posted on May 7, 2013, 3:42 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I thought you might have some comic knowledge...

by Louis-Paul

Mine is based mostly on the late 60's and early 70's version of the Iron man comics sold for a dime each (or packaged with Duck Tales and Mickey comics - I was a kid, it kept me quiet in the car) with little knowledge of what hapenned afterwards until the movies came out and I researched what I had missed.

I will spoil one thing while commenting on something not IN the movie.

------------------non revealing spoiler alert-----------------
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\||||||||||||||||||||||||||||/////////////////

China (the country's government) may LIKE this movie.

/////////////////||||||||||||||||||||||||||||\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
--------------------------------------------------------------

There are lots of references and "in" jokes throughout the movie, but all Marvel movies right now have them (i.e. Cap America: Hulk... Smash!).

Be prepared for a fun time but keep your mind open.

BTW, I took my 9 y.o. and his siblings and I had to hide a few scenes from him - the Manadrin's threat videos were very graphic in context. I'm no prude but I also don't feel like rocking him to sleep after a nightmare.

Posted on May 7, 2013, 11:23 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Comics are MADE of monkey wrenches...

by

I think I stopped collecting/reading at about the same point as you, Doc. "Wait, you want me to spend $75/mo just to follow one team? I-don't-think-so!" I like to think DC and Marvel have gone back to the "Build it and they will come" marketing model, but I am a dreamer. happy.gif

My review on Ironman 3 was .. as soon as I finished watching it, I wanted to turn right back around and go watch it again. Last movie I said that about was .. uh, Charlie Sheen, et al's, Three Musketeers. The disclaimer, however, I don't watch a lot of movies. (I'm far more a music geek.)

There's just some people I can't see movies with .. they rip them to shreds as soon as you're walking out of the theatre. Yes, we all know there were a few, small, gaping holes in Jurassic Park.. but geez.. suspend belief and enjoy!

Which isn't to say I'm not often amused by libertarian friends who explain how they'd upgrade so-and-so's weaponry and use it better.

Posted on May 7, 2013, 6:52 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Ideas vs. suggestions...

by

Just a thought, but maybe give in and do strips about what you're working on in the shop, given a silly twist? No offence, but it seems like your strips have gotten further and further away from the paintball stuff (today's gag being an exception).

Posted on May 7, 2013, 3:40 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

We _could_ stand for...

by

...more gratuitous shots of Pirta in the shower... happy.gif

Posted on May 6, 2013, 12:31 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Do you want to get beat up by her? N/T

by Anonymous Coward

N/T

Posted on May 8, 2013, 6:42 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Okay let's try it this way: I have a favor to ask of every one please.

by MephitMark

Yes this is the favor I was trying to ask of Nickel, since this is his forum.

The favor I am asking if for a dear friend, that some here may know of, Tiffany Ross. The author and artist of a number of on-line comics. The main one being the Cyantian Chronicles.http://cyantian.net/

Ms Ross is participating in a contest where if she is one of the winners she hopes to use the money to help buy a house for her family.

I am asking if every one here could please help her by voting for as much as possible please. And perhaps getting anyone else you know to vote as well would be a great help for Ms. Ross. Obviously the more votes she gets the better her chances of winning.
https://www.loveourlocalbusiness.com/base/lolb2desktop?region_id=us&content_id=19554

Unfortunately the contest ends on the twelfth.

I hope every one appreciate how important a home of your own is. Please help.

Posted on May 5, 2013, 7:51 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

....and for those of you on social networks - Spread the word!

by Ketira

I just Tweeted about this to my Followers so that they know someone could use a new home. Even though I'm in a condo, I don't mind living in it. But I can tell others: "Hey, I OWN my unit, not rent!"

Any road - there's buttons on that site for y'all to spread the word to whichever social media site(s) you're on. In a case like this, the more, the merrier!

Posted on May 6, 2013, 5:24 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

You can vote once a day!

by

Just thought I'd make sure to point that out, both for the people who'd vote once and forget about it, and the ones with good intentions but poor planning who'd try to spam the place with votes and end up getting her entry invalidated...

Posted on May 6, 2013, 7:46 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

That is once a day from a unique source.

by MephitMark

I've been casting my vote from as many different locations as possible. Mostly from various library Wifi connections.

Posted on May 6, 2013, 9:07 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

You can vote for more than one, please vote for mine as well!

by Renegade_Azzy

Not trying to steal any thunder, and hope that lady can get her house... know what that feeling is like.

Trying to get my biz more off the ground, and would appreciate the guild's support.

http://bit.ly/Yq3HPL

Posted on May 6, 2013, 8:48 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Glade to help out as best I can. nt.

by MephitMark



Posted on May 6, 2013, 9:05 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Thanks :) nt

by Renegade_Azzy

nt

Posted on May 6, 2013, 12:52 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Voted for both of ya' - good luck! nt

by Pneuman

poopedmypants

Posted on May 7, 2013, 11:50 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Cow pie plus fire cracker...no need to ask for paint check

by

http://www.break.com/index/firecracker-explodes-a-cowpie-over-this-kid-2440304


Posted on May 3, 2013, 7:43 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Players hit!! N/T

by

Nil Text

Posted on May 4, 2013, 3:06 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Cow pie plus fire cracker...no need to ask for paint check

by Attic Rat

The great part? He laughed about it. Gotta admire that.
And maybe know to step a little farther back, next time.

Posted on May 4, 2013, 11:25 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Telescoping carbon poles; need help sourcing some small parts.

by spyder95

I haven't posted on here in a while, but I have a project that I need some help with, and figured this would be the perfect place to ask.

I am pretty heavily into indie filmmaking, and am trying to make a nice, higher-end steadycam myself, 1. because its cheaper, and 2, it's more fun to make instead of buying. I'm running into two roadblocks though

1. I am using 1 mm wall thickness 25mm OD and 22mm OD carbon fiber tubes for the vertical piece, and need a way to connect them. I've been looking for lever-locking or twist-locking clamps. These seem to be on every cheap little tripod and painter pole out there, but I cannot for the life of me find what I'm looking for at a decent price.

2. I need a way to attach the top and bottom pieces to the tripod. basically, I need a piece that attaches two parallel, horizontal 15mm rods that are 60 mm apart to the end of a vertical 25mm carbon fiber tube.

For the second roadblock, I thought of using just basic aluminum baseplates for poles like these:http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLLAENDER-467-114-Pipe-Size-Aluminum-RectangularBase-Flange-Fitting-/321073313213 but I don't really feel like paying $15 shipped for something I am not sure will work (I'm unsure of the stability/durability of the set-screw connection on carbon fiber.) I had also considered epoxying in a threaded plug on each end.

Does anyone have any ideas?


Posted on May 3, 2013, 11:30 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Hollaender, No way.

by

The setscrew in a Hollaender fitting would break carbon fiber/epoxy or resin tube in a heartbeat, way too much point-loading on one setscrew.

If it has to be a slip joint, cannibalize a painters pole for the mechanism. Follow the Tinker's Guild Motto (also rec.crafts.metalworking) - Adapt, Improvise, Overcome. For far cheaper than trying to reinvent the wheel, you steal one off a hand truck.

If it's a permanent join to the carbon-fiber tube, I'd make an aluminum baseplate for the camera, and TIG weld on a 1" or so chunk of thinwall aluminum tube as a socket, angle cut the base as needed to get the direction of the dangle where you want.

Then epoxy your carbon-fiber tube into that socket. Et Voila!

And if you need stronger carbon-fiber tube (because you tripped and fell and broke your prototype) fill it with rigid expanding foam. Won't add much weight but should help the rigidity and crush resistance a LOT.

Posted on May 3, 2013, 11:49 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

the top needs to be adjustable...

by SPYDER95

The top needs to be able to slide back and forth (and ideally side-side)for balance adjustment, so I can't weld it in place.

I thought about using that hollaender bracket and epoxying it to the OD of the carbon tube, and is what I'm probably going to do. I would have rather used a clamp, but I think this should be fine.

both the top and bottom will have a 15mm rail setup so I can use readily available clamps and weights to finish this thing up.

Posted on May 3, 2013, 12:58 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

could I just slit the end of the carbon tube?

by spyder95

and use a bike-post style lever clamp? or would that crack the carbon? I'm thinking like 3 or 4 slits

Posted on May 8, 2013, 11:27 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Maybe - Only one way to find out....

by

You might be able to get away with a slide-over fit, the big problem is point-loading, you have to distribute all stresses evenly. You concentrate the stress at one spot and it'll crack there.

At the least you need to stop-drill at the end of every slit - make the slot look like a lollipop. If I was messing with it, I'd over-laminate with regular fiberglass and match the epoxy resin of the carbon fiber tube.

And what you're clamping over needs to be polished smooth too.

Posted on May 11, 2013, 2:52 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Tie a String . . .

by Steve


Doc, that really hit my funnybone.
Thanks, the day is looking beter now.

Steve

Posted on May 3, 2013, 6:46 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Put on your shoes and socks. Socks first dummy. N/T

by Wakeboard

Next Time

Posted on May 3, 2013, 9:16 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Tie a String . . .

by

If you wanted that pill you shoulda put a string on it?

..I know, there's a special corner of hell just waiting for me.

Posted on May 3, 2013, 9:47 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Worst weekend ever but that put a smile on my face...thanks! N/T

by Eric

Need Tylenol!

Posted on May 6, 2013, 8:05 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Whitewater Snorkelling!

by

It's a real thing.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-356224.html

Posted on May 3, 2013, 5:15 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Wow! that actually looks like a lot of fun. . .

by isuckatmoney

But, swimming is something I only do if I fall out of my boat. . .



Posted on May 3, 2013, 8:45 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Been there done it have the shirt.

by Donkey

I did that when I was 7 to 12 on the family vacations to Yosemite National Park.

Posted on May 3, 2013, 1:07 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Doc, a special favor to ask.

by MephitMark

All is said in the e-mail.

Posted on May 2, 2013, 11:48 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Doc's Suit

by Kitkun

[linked image]

Posted on May 2, 2013, 10:43 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

TWB It never fails :(

by Donkey

Why does it always comes down to guys thinking about size? Guys have what they have, if it works what dose it matter what size it is?

Posted on May 1, 2013, 4:11 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: TWB It never fails :(

by eighttailfox

Yes.

Posted on May 1, 2013, 4:36 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: TWB It never fails :(

by

Well, a waistline sufficient to encompass a whole deep-fried walrus shown unencumbered by a belt WOULD have a certain ... grandeur.

Or am I missing something? 8)

Posted on May 1, 2013, 4:47 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Yes. And you're a better off person for it. N/T

by eddi



Posted on May 1, 2013, 10:11 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: TWB It never fails :(

by Says the guys named "Donkey"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nHZ8Ftc7B8

"You let me dump a tripod?! You Bitch!"

Posted on May 1, 2013, 8:27 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

yeah, and I should be named "Glasses"

by Der Alta



Posted on May 1, 2013, 8:27 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: TWB It never fails :(

by

Having been a tomboy by nature and activity from about the time I could talk, I've heard many a variation on bigger/better, python in pants, etc etc.. And each time I will look at them.. Okay, POST PUBERTY.. I looked ta them with puzzled brow and said some variation of "You want to put a 1" bolt in a .5" hole and you'd think that'd be fun for the bolt and the hole?"

Fortunately for us filthy minded souls though, Doc actually meant that he put the fluff all over his body so he's so plush and cuddly all the girls want to .. uh, feed him Dew.

-Shady.

Posted on May 1, 2013, 10:14 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

You are presenting an unproven statement as though it was true.

by Attic Rat

Oldest cheap trick in the book. Ask "Why is/does..." followed by a false accusation presented as a question. Used primarily by internet trolls and first-semester college debate students.

Posted on May 1, 2013, 11:00 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Second oldest trick in the book

by Pilchard123

Accusing someone making an unfortunate generalisation of trolling.

Posted on May 2, 2013, 12:56 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Third oldest...

by

The oldest would be somewhat closely tied with the oldest profession. You know the one, for those whose size does matter happy.gif

Posted on May 2, 2013, 5:39 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Size does matter

by Donkey

with them but what their looking at is the size of your wallet not your package.

Posted on May 3, 2013, 1:01 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

wrong response

by Donkey

The most popular response by far is to such comments is to accuse the person of having a tiny one and said guy is jealous of guys that have bigger ones. My statement is true, most guys do think of their size be it big, little or somewhere between.

Posted on May 2, 2013, 5:46 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

???

by

What are you all talking about? He was obviously talking about large calf muscles.

-Ten

Posted on May 2, 2013, 9:11 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

5052 Series Aluminum - Anodizing?

by shockwave

I have a non-paintball project that is going to be utilizing 5052 series aluminum. Do any of you anodizers out there have experience with 5052 and know if it takes dye/colors well?

Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 3:15 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

A little googling on the subject.

by Nighthawke

http://www.speedymetals.com/information/Material22.html

http://www.anodizing.org/Publications/bulletin_4.html

http://www.electrohio.com/Finishing/AlAnodizing/AlAnodizing.htm

Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 7:31 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Decorative finish for Aluminum Sheeting

by

Hello Again
I'm looking to create a decorative circular effect on some aluminum sheet metal. Its pretty thick stuff, we are making a display case that fits all into this box on wheels and we need to figure a way to finish the exterior surface.
I'm thinking there was info about using a brass or bronze wire wheel and you actually work the brass into the aluminum to create the effect.
Anyone know anything about this?
Does the substrate have to be heated?
Sand blasted so that you can remove the material off the wheel unto the Aluminum sheet?
What is available in wire wheels? Brass? Bronze? Copper?

Any other ideas for decorative finishes?

Thanks in advance for your help...

Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 6:17 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

talking about Engine Turning / Jeweling / Damascening?

by Ken Newell

Try those terms in google and you'll find all sorts of kits/howtos out there. The basics are, spinning tool, even pressure/time per circle, and consistent grit...

Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 7:13 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Wikipedia

by Mg

Doc,

Looks like Wikipedia deleted TWB's page. May wanna take the link off the front page.

My donation is going to dew, not jimmy wales.

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 10:46 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

...Again

by Pilchard123

>sad.gif

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 11:13 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Yeah, I know...

by

The tolerance/intolerance of webcomics in Wikipedia comes and goes. For a while there it was sufficient notability that a TWB strip had been published in an issue of PSI's "What Gear?" magazine back in 2003- which fully satisfies Wikipedia's requirements for a third-party, non-internet source for "notability"- but apparently since that issue can't be found online, there's no proof it exists, so therefore it's not actually an acceptable source.

I tried posting photos of it, but that, of course, was a self-reference and therefore not acceptable.

But, no biggie. The only thing anybody used it for was keeping track of the Cast anyway. happy.gif

Doc.



Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 2:28 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Hey Doc Post that Photo here!

by Squirlly

Then someone can send it in as a third party not a "self post" or better yet screw wiki!

-Tim

Posted on May 1, 2013, 4:36 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Won't work...

by

That's been debated before, by the Wiki people. Just being a third party is irrelevant- as far as Wiki is concerned, it has to be a notable third party. And, since Wiki is, generally speaking, anti-webcomic anyway (many of the supermods have unambiguously stated exactly that) "notable" in this case means more than just having their own Wiki entry.

For example, of TWB's Wiki pages' references was a mention by Howard Tayler of Schlock Mercenary. Both Howard himself and Schlock have Wiki pages, and are unquestionably- even by the supermod's anti-comic standards- notable. Said "mention", they deemed, was insufficient- admittedly, it was just a blog post really, but the point is, if some other Joe Blow posted my photo of the magazine, it still wouldn't be accepted.

I have little doubt that if virtually anyone posted a reference to TWB, they'd accept it as a valid "notability" citation. It'd take a mention in something like the New York Times, or by Roger Ebert or something like that. I doubt they'd even accept an entry in Instapundit or the Drudge Report, since those are, again, "just" blogs.

Hell, even if the magazine publisher that put out that "What Gear?" issue posted all their archives online, I suspect the Wiki people would still consider it insufficiently notable- it's just one entry, after all, and in an obscure, long-defunct niche-market magazine from ten years ago.

But again, I'm not worried about it. It was never really a boost to traffic, and most people just read it for the somewhat-more-updated Cast page. Perhaps one day some "notable" reviewer will do an article, or I'll get TWB into a magazine (assuming somebody starts printing paintball magazines again happy.gif ) and we can re-post the page. But if not, no biggie.

Doc.

Posted on May 1, 2013, 12:36 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Insult a corrupt 3rd world politician

by Bruce

Then you can refer to the newspaper articles where he wants your head on a pike. happy.gif

Wikipedia is such a bunch of elitists it ain't funny. There was a debate a few years back going on about whether a press release by a top university regarding honorary doctorates was a suitable reference. Wasn't picked up by mainstream media because of 9-11, so was it "notable"

Posted on May 1, 2013, 1:20 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Or tweet something racist...

by

... which seems to be a popular method is generating some buzz in the press. happy.gif

But seriously, as I've said before when this subject comes up, I can see where Wiki is coming from, especially in relation to webcomics. There's literally tens of thousands of webcomics out there, and the overwhelming majority of them, to not put too fne a point in it, suck.

Besides which, there's thousands more that are long dead- somebody posted a comic for a year or two during the last couple of semesters of college, then dropped it once he or she had to move on to the Real World and get a job.

Do those comics deserve their own Wikipedia page? They may have had 20 or 30 thousand readers per day while it was running, but only ran for about two years, was done by an otherwise unnotable author, and hasn't been updated since 2003.

So yeah, I understand Wiki's reasonings, and I have to say I can't entirely disagree. Yeah, I think the mods are just a bit too full of themselves, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Again, go look at The Belfry's lists of "Completed", "Inactive" and "Lost" comics- there's better than ten thousand of those alone. Do they all deserve a Wiki page?

Doc.

Posted on May 1, 2013, 2:17 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Or tweet something racist...

by

Perhaps a wiki page, but then that'd just be a duplicate of the Belfry one listing defunct comics.

Posted on May 3, 2013, 10:05 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Won't work...

by

I always wonder if we can catch wikipedia itself not meeting its own notability standards, and get it to implode. happy.gif

Posted on May 3, 2013, 10:03 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

TWB Books

by

Hey Doc, long-time reader, first-time poster!

I was wondering if you're either releasing a 6th book, or getting some more of the 4th in stock anytime soon? I was looking to pick up the set and make a donation to the Dew fund.

I checked back in the guild archives a bit and didn't see any related posts, my apologies if this was answered recently.

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 3:57 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

The Tale of the Books...

by

Yes, there will be a Book 6. I already have a title, work-in-progress cover art and a couple of the bonus strips. There will also be a Book 7, and most likely a Book 8, and so on. happy.gif

Now, as I've mentioned before, my print guy ran into some difficulties when trying to relocate his shop, but it would take too long to enumerate all that here. Suffice to say that things have stabilized to the point we're started working towards the next series of projects, but also suffice to say that because of the potentially unstable situation, I do not want to make any announcements or even rough ETAs.

Well, I take that last one back a little; the best I can say is we're hoping to release Book 6 this year. happy.gif

Now, the other thing is that despite the issues with the print shop, we now have access to much better and faster machines, better binding, and more options as to the style, size and layout. Book 6 will be essentially the same format, but different. And if we reprint the previous books, they too would be in the new layout. So collect those old books! Once they're sold out, they'll be gone forever. happy.gif

Doc.

Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 2:48 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Tale of the Books

by

Thanks for the update Doc! I'll keep my eyes peeled.

Any hints on how drastically the layout will change?

Posted on May 1, 2013, 6:11 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Autograph

by

Are you able to autograph the books you currently have available?

Posted on May 3, 2013, 12:52 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

TWB 04/29/2013

by Torinir

Poor Sandy and Pirta. I bet they won't recover from that terror without a lot of alcohol and/or ice cream. :P

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 6:19 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Like they never seen a naked guy before. n/t

by Dragon Furr



Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 8:08 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

It's not just A, it's THE Nekked

by Listessa

Really, it's not just about seeing a random naked dude's fuzzy dangly bits. There are some dudes that you seriously hope you DO NOT ever see hanging out in all of their nekked glory.

I have a feeling the ladies are more shocked over Doc being naked, than just seeing a naked guy.

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 6:28 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

It's the difference...

by

Using an example for us guys, it's the difference between seeing some random lady naked, and seeing your mom naked.

One tends to be somewhat more horrifying than the other. happy.gif

Doc.

Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 2:54 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Or worse...

by

Your grandmother naked.

Barf bags are on the right. Thank you for playing!

Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 12:24 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Or worse...

by CF

Depends on which grandmother, and when....

(The females in my family hold up very well for a long time. Sadly, I am a Male....)

Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 12:34 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Point well made sirs >.<

by Dragon Furr

Now pardon wile I go boil my brain....

Posted on May 1, 2013, 12:53 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Their eyes are bleeding! n/t

by Irregular Logic

no trophies for looking.

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 8:33 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: TWB 04/29/2013

by

Hate to second-guess Doc, but an even funnier way to have done it is have Roger comment, "You've been staring in abject terror at the elevator for the last five minutes. Hmmm, Doc must have come through with no pants again." wink.gif

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 8:55 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Except that...

by

... It hasn't happened before. Personally, I think it's funnier that it's the first time- after all the things they've already been through, things can still happen to shock everyone.

But in any case, after-the-fact punchlines are easy. I could have just as easily changed the entire tone of the gag and had Roger say "Is there some reason you two are just staring at the elevator doors and drooling?"

happy.gif

Doc.

Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 3:00 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Except that...

by

Hee. True, true, which is why I suggested it the way I did--shock to the girls, but for Roger, it's just another day at the shop. happy.gif

Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 10:01 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

They've been working there long enough...

by

You'd think the girls were immune by now. And if they were going to go running off to Alaska's Equal Employment Opportunity Department, it would have happened the first day.

Ergo, we just have to wait for their brains to reboot, then they get to plot something Really Evil to get back at Doc for that impromptu floor show. Or find the industrial strength Brain Bleach and "Apply to the forehead". Or both.

And Doc will have to go get "Emergency Pants" cabinets for below each "Emergency Dew" one. Or better, some wool Fire Blanket cabinets and include a few of those jumbo-size safety/diaper pins. You can Toga almost any size body, and loincloth the rest.

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 10:31 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Twb

by

So now they found out doc got two belly buttons and was lab grown bear...

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 10:13 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: Twb

by

I'd thought it more likely he was found in lab grown beer..

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 11:06 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

*searches for "reset" button*

by tmk

they've gone catatonic, total lockup - time to reboot...

Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 6:15 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Speaking of machining books...

by

Since other people have asked a similar question in the past, let's get the Guild's input.

For those of you who use machine tools, either for occasional hobby work or full time employment (or anywhere in between) what sort of books have you read on the subject?

If you took a college or vocational school class, what (if any) textbooks did they give you? Did they give you a textbook or other reading material?

If you got a job as a machinist (or apprentice, etc.) did your employer give you any manuals or books? If you decided to pick up a small desktop mill because you wanted to try to make your own paintball parts, what did you read or research before making the buy, or to learn how to use it afterward?

For the enthusiasts, did you ever look for books or other references just for the sake of learning something new? If so, what did you find, and what did you think of it? If you ever sought out a specific book that was recommended to you, again, what was it and did you find it useful?

Personally, my college classes used a textbook called Machine Tool Practices- I have two editions, one early and one later, and there are notable differences between them. (For example, the later one doesn't mention band filing, which is using a "belt" of file sections in a bandsaw for filing and shaping parts.)

Both versions are pretty good, though while they mention and show a wide variety of machines, there's not a great deal of detail given on any one of them. They do, however, have a good starter selection of 'how tos' for operating the basic machine (mill, lathe, drill press) plus lots of little safety tips.

The best parts of the books, however, are the layout sections- how to properly use a micrometer, how to read a vernier scale, how to properly scribe a line, how to use a height gauge, etc.

Those two were what passed for my reference library for many years.

Later, after I'd started doing airsmithing for pay, I finally got my own copy of Machinery's Handbook, which was actually a hand-me-down from my grandfather. Not wanting to soil it (it's filled with clippings and notes he left in it) I eventually bought a more recent edition at a garage sale, that I won't mind mucking up in the shop.

I don't, however, really consider it "indispensible" as some people do. If you have a tap-drill chart (Starrett makes one of the best- buy it and have it laminated) and a basic feeds & speeds chart (my college teacher gave us all one) you've got 95% of what you'd most often use MH for.

Don't get me wrong, it's worth having a copy, but don't go out of your way to fork out big cash for one. If you happen across a deal, snag it, but don't obsess if you don't have one.

Also much later, I got a Lindsay reprint of South Bend's How To Run a Lathe, as I noted below. I'd been using lathes for a while by that point, but it was still very useful- and it's my first recommendation if someone asks how they can get started in machining.

Lindsay has gone out of business, though, so I'm not entirely sure about current new-book supplies. I've heard rumors that another company is or was planning on taking over the printing and distribution, but I don't know any specifics.

I have dozens of other books, but other than a few very specific books (on metallurgy, or shapers in specific, or even blacksmithing) most are either too general (having even less detail than the textbooks) or badly written. (I have a book titled "Machine Shop" that was clearly written by some guy who had spent less than three hours in the vicinity of a machine shop, and whose reference materials probably amounted to a couple of sales pamphlets about the machines.)

Doc.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 3:16 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Up here we use...

by Penguin

Up here, at least on the west coast we use Technology of Machine Tools as the standard apprentice machinist text book. The photographs are a little dated and there are some questionable practices and some absolutes that aren't always absolutes but it's a pretty solid foundation book for apprentices.

Actually since you mentioned Machine Tool Practices I'm pretty sure that's the textbook the foundation and CNC students use.

As far as MH is concerned I honestly never use mine except for school. I find it's easier to google most general questions than sift through the index to find the chart I need. Indispensable if you're doing fits all day long but my experience has been that it mostly gathers dust in my box. We are not actually allowed to bring in the book with us when we write our Red Seal exam.

I own a 29th and a 21st Ed and I think most hobbyists are better off looking for a slightly older edition. A lot of useful layout info (bolt hole co-ords, jig and fixture info etc) has been knocked out of the book since DROs and such have become so common in commercial shops.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 4:26 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Also Technology of Machine Tools (7th Ed)

by CameraGuy

Probably the same for all of Ontario and potentially most of Canada, the curriculum is set by the provincial regulators (ours is in the process of being spun of as an independent entity funded by its members, but that is another issue altogether). Generally its alright, they have some funny ideas about speeds for reamers, counterboring, countersinking and tapping - generally much faster than I would run the tools in real life on even a relatively large and rigid manual machine.

At work I'm expected to do speeds and feeds on the spot in my head instantly for common operations on the manual machines and modify as necessary depending on how the results look/sound. Threading charts are pretty much the only reference used and they are based on a metric drill set (English trained boss). My G code references are off of the internet plus some machine specific scribbles of my own.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 7:18 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

The Machinists Ready Reference

by Dosh

It's a spiral bound book about 6" x 4" x 1". Machinery's Handbook is indespensible to me, primarily for the thread data. Helicoil, standard, metric, acme, if you have multiple sets of inspectors going back over your work you need this book. I also have The Machinist's Bedtime Reader Volume Two. Not a must have but a really good buy, but lots of interesting stuff. For instance the author gives a recipe and process for color case hardening starting that starts with walnut shells. But instead of just writing it as an instruction manual he sets it in a story about an elderly retired gunsmith and his apprentice. Machine Tool Practices of course. Machine Shop Secrets was a good one. That one was one machinist just condensing all the tips and tricks he's learned over the years. Some I agree with, some I don't, but I did adopt a few. Then various booklets and material references.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 4:41 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Books I am Proud to have Actually Used...

by

...in actual employment, I mean.

As a Design Engineer, I don't use MACHINERY"S HANDBOOK frequently, but it is a vital resource. I have at least 2 copies - one for work & one for home. I frequently use the AISC STEEL CONSTRUCTION HANDBOOK for steel shapes, dimensions, and properties - I have a 1973 edition a home that falls open to all of the right pages, a newer edition at work, & a couple of older, more collectible editions.

I am particularly proud of my father's copy of AUDEL'S MACHINISTS AND TOOL MAKERS HANDY BOOK (1942) - a very comprehensive introduction to all types of machine work at a manual level that is skipped over by newer CNC oriented books.

When I was first getting started in house construction, I bought every how-to book I ran across - more because of interest than need. One that still stands out is HOW TO USE HAND AND POWER TOOLS (Popular Science, 1970) - a very good general introduction to hand tools. I got most of my helpful tips on all types of carpentry and machine work by reading straight through all of my father's 1940s POPULAR MECHANICS. But, if I had not had that resource, I would have loved SHOPWORK ON THE FARM (1945) and THE BOY MECHANIC (Popular Mechanics, 1952). THE BOY MECHANIC is actually reprints of the tips and projects from the 1940s & 1950s Popular Mechanics.

I was particularly delighted to actually need to use AUDEL'S SHEET METAL PATTERN LAYOUTS (1942). Before AutoCAD was even invented, I had two different jobs that required frequent design of sheet metal transitions from one unusual shape to another. Flat development of oblique transitions is not for the faint of heart. I still have 2 compasses that I made to hold a mechanical pencil using collars or tube clamps - a 3 foot wooden one & a 6 foot metal one. Let's see today's HVAC contractor make a 14 to 12 reducer with an 8 to 4 reducer at a 30 degree wye!



Posted on Apr 28, 2013, 8:08 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

+1 for Machinerie's Handbook

by Krazny13

I don't often use it, but when I do, its a freaking lifesaver.

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 8:49 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

2 for Machinery's Handbook

by Tim

I just used it today, in fact. I bought when I was a machinist, but that was mostly machining plastic parts, which is a little different than steel and aluminum. That's when I got the MHB. No other ones then, but I didn't go to school for machine work, just sort of picked it up.

The MHB was also one of my primary references when I took the PE test (mechanical engineering/machine design)

Tim

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 12:27 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

While not a machinist maual per say,

by Renegade_Azzy

My wife has 2 volumes of the Popular Science War Time Manuals. It goes from how to make your own basic household supplies to electrical work and carpentry.

I even found what I believe is the recipe for Sheridan's long lost (and highly toxic) brass blackening.

Posted on Apr 28, 2013, 10:43 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Brass?

by

That would be something worth sharing. Lots of us brass fans would love to be able to restore old Sheridans or recolor new builds.

I bought a bottle of a colorant a few years ago, that was used to tone the etched lines in engraved trophy plaques, but it doesn't work for crap when trying to do large areas.

Doc.

Posted on Apr 28, 2013, 11:41 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Hasluck says...

by LostinAPhogg

Hasluck's Metalworking (as the Lindsay (PBUH) reprint) devotes page 384
to colouring brass. Under Oxidizing Brass, he reports that electrochemical
methods do not produce the effect generally desired, but "Brass can be
blackened by coating with a thin layer of platinum deposited from a weak
solution of platinum chloride without the aid of a battery or other generator
of electricity."

Other methods involve nitric acid, hydrochloric acid, white arsenic, gold
chloride, muriate of ammonia, a few pieces of sulphur in a red-hot iron bowl
(eg, lead ladle) placed in a tin biscuit-box, and similar materials of which
Mum (or the EPA) might possibly not approve.

One less-exciting recipe calls for "1 pt. water, 5 dr. of iron perchloride,
and 1 oz. of hyposulphite of soda. Dip the articles in the solution till
they are of the desired tint, then swill and dry in clean sawdust." (If
those are apothecary drams, that's about 20g, or 0.7 oz.)

They sure don't make 'em the way they useter...


Posted on Apr 28, 2013, 5:06 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Liver of Sulfur

by ferritecore

In a number of older books I've encountered something liver of sulfur. The name is memorable. I think I even encountered it in real life once long ago. If that is what it was it was effective.

When looking at traditional colorants you find a number of fanciful names, such as dragon's blood. I want a row of appropriately labeled containers on shelf in my shop.

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 3:40 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Let me look for it again

by Renegade_Azzy

From what I remember, it was pretty toxic stuff, and you couldn't get some of the materials anymore, at least unless you made them.

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 3:35 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

link to SB HTRAL

by

here are a few linkd to South Bends book.

(I have a SB 9x56 inch built in 1946)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/62662262/South-Bend-How-to-Run-a-Metal-Lathe

Just for fun a photo of my last project, a V-6 steam enging with a wooden block.

photo CIMG0131.jpg

and

photo 020.jpg

Regards,
Kevin

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 2:32 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

On the shelf

by MSquared

I love to read, and I like real books (not them kindle E book things), so I have a whole shelf full of machinist related books.

When I was in college we used Machine Tool Practices, I think mine is about 5th Edition and I still refer to it occasionally. I also have the MHB, which mostly stays in my "office" (/drafting room/man cave), but the one I use in the shop the most is the Shop Reference for Students and Apprentices published by the machinery's handbook. It has most of the reference tables and numbers I need without all the deep discussion. The pages are a little thicker/more resistant to shop environment, and it's a lot less expensive for replacement purposes.

Machine Shop Practices by Hans Molerecht (vol 1&2) is a good starting place for an apprentice or student, and has a lot more informaiton about layout and using measuring tools. Machine Shop Training Course (vol 1&2) is ok, but I found it pretty dated. It does have information about shapers and planers that aren't so much in use any more. Both sets are available from Enco.

A couple books I bought and absolutely recommend are Metalworking Sink or Swim by Tom Lipton and Machine Shop Trade Secrets by James Harvey, both from industrial press. Both are full of good info and I have re-read them about a half dozen times each in the last few years. Another good resource is the Machinists Bedside Reader set by Guy Lautard, not as much production info as tips tricks and some good stories, as well as plans for some neat projects and tools.

It was a sad day when Lindsay publicatios went out of business, my last order to them was over $400 and there are a few books that I maybe should have bought but didn't. I have a ton of thier stuff, mostly reprints of old instructional info on arcane methods, that still get drug out and used every so often...



Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 5:58 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Ex Libris Rookie Machinist...

by Cody Gregson

My "shop library" thus far is:

Machine Tool Practices (Kibbe, 9th ed.)
Intro to CNC (Valentino, 5th ed.)
Machinery's Handbook (29th ed.) and its pocket companion
Audel's Machine Shop Basics (5th ed.)
Audel's Mechanical Trades Pocket Manual (4th ed.)
Pocket Ref (Sequoia, 4th ed.)

I am by far getting the most use out of MH and the pocket companion. What I like about that combo is that ANYTHING you'd EVER need to know is in the big MH, and the common day-to-day stuff is in the pocket companion. Most mechanical tradespeople I know refer to MH as "the Bible", so the MH pocket companion would be kinda like a daily missal, I guess. I don't know how much I'm going to use them once I actually get an industry job, but I'm using the crap out of both in school. The two Audel books are pretty decent for explaining the basics of manual work like cold chisels and files, which don't get covered in any of my classes.

I also have the 7th edition of Larry Jeffus' Welding Principles and Applications and the study guide, and a Lincoln Electric arc-welding lesson book from 1942 that belonged to my grandfather. The Lincoln book does a MUCH better job of explaining the SMAW basics than the Jeffus textbook, which is rather disorganized and typo-ridden. Unfortunately, I have to put up with Jeffus for the rest of my welding classes, 'cuz those are the books for the whole welding curriculum. Phooey.

...of course, I do have a laminated Starrett's tap-drill chart, too... poster and pocket card.

Posted on May 2, 2013, 9:18 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Anvil Resurfacing

by

Hey Tinkers,
I have a friend looking to resurface an anvil. I've been doing some research and wanted to hear some more opinions.

To me it sounds like the best bet is to get some hard-facing wire for our MIG welder and fill it in and grind it flat.

Some other suggestions I've seen were just grinding it down, or welding a tool steel plate on top.

Let me know what you think.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 7:44 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Anvils

by Radical

Use the search and look up anvils, Doc resurfaced his a few years ago, I am at work and for some reason the search button on the forum freezes this P.O.S computer.



Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 2:02 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Here it is. The link, that is.

by ferritecore

Try the second and third section of Doc's smithy page.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 2:43 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Fixin' anvils...

by

The repairs I did were relatively minor- I rebuilt crumbled edges and filled in spalled pits. The problem was, my technique was extremely time-consuming. I figure I have at least 40-60 hours in rebuilding the top face, not counting the (somewhat easier) reshaping of the horn and soft face.

If you're missing large sections of the hardface plate, in my opinion the only proper fix is high quality hardfacing wire in a MIG.

I've tried the stick rods, and they're very difficult to use properly- besides being absurdly expensive.

I have what I think is a Fisher farrier's anvil, that I got a few years ago. At least a quarter of the top plate has separated, and a big chunk is missing. It would take a huge amount of time to replace that much metal with the previous "tiny TIG welds" technique, so my plan has been to pick up a roll of the hardfacing wire for the MIG in order to fix it. I'll have to cut off the separated part, since there's no way to weld under it, which means I'll have to MIG upwards of a quarter, if not a third of the full face of the anvil.

Doc.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 3:28 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Didn't you post that project on here awhile back? nt

by Dosh

Wakka wakka

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 5:04 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Nevermind, linked above nt

by Dosh

Wakka wakka

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 5:05 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

clueless n00b question...

by

At least a quarter of the top plate has separated, and a big chunk is missing. It would take a huge amount of time to replace that much metal with the previous "tiny TIG welds" technique, so my plan has been to pick up a roll of the hardfacing wire for the MIG in order to fix it. I'll have to cut off the separated part, since there's no way to weld under it, which means I'll have to MIG upwards of a quarter, if not a third of the full face of the anvil.

I apologize if this is one of those questions that has an obvious answer to anyone who knows what they're talking about. If you need to remove and replace that much of the face, is there a way you can re-use the removed face section instead of rebuilding it all from scratch? I get that there's no way to just weld the whole thing back on in one piece, but I'm wondering if you could, say, cut the removed piece into strips (and the image that comes to mind is a Kit-Kat bar), and then weld each strip back on in succession to rebuild the face that way. Would that work? Would it be more trouble than it's worth? I guess in part is I'm not sure how thick the top plate is...

(Bear in mind, my metalworking experience consists of 1x intro to blacksmithing class. We made S-hooks.)

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 9:42 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Weldin' anvils...

by

There's no really easy way to "reuse" the hard steel.

If this were the old days where labor was cheap and steel was expensive, the smithy would take the broken-off chunk and the anvil, clean the mating surfaces, heat 'em both up to near-molten (literally) flux both sides and then hammer-weld the plate back into place.

He'd then shape and blend all the seams as best he could while the whole mess cools down to merely red-hot, and then would quench the entire anvil in either a huge tub of water, a nearby moving stream or using a tub and a big fire hose.

If the quench itself didn't cause the top to crack back off, it'd cool to file-hard, backed up with the still-soft (as in unhardened) wrought iron.

However, doing such a thing today is hugely energy-intensive (I'd need several large propane burners and a lot of tanks to feed 'em) and would take several people with some specialized equipment (another, bigger anvil, a quickly-movable crane, some sort of tongs to lift and hold a hundred-plus-pound weight, etc.)

If one were to simply weld the plate back on, as with a MIG or stick welder, you'd only be able to reach the periphery- you could only weld the outside edge, not the underside of the entire plate. Then, as the plate flexes as the anvil is being beat on (that's it's job, after all) either the plate cracks, or the welds crack, or both, bringing you back to square one.

If you welded strips, using conventional welding rod or wire, you'd end up with alternating hard and soft strips- the softer parts would eventually "flow" or peen away as you work hot metal on it, eventually producing a sort of corrugated surface.

The welding would also tend to anneal or soften the hard metal- it'd be harder than the weld, but not as hard as a proper face.

To produce a decent working anvil face, it needs to be has hard as possible- "glass hard" isn't out of the question, as long as it's solidly attached to a fair lump of softer iron to support it. My Peter Wright- at least the original parts of the face- is so hard an indexible carbide endmill couldn't even mark it. The tips just smoked off and crumbled.

Unfortunately, no welding rod can get it quite that hard, but still, the harder the better. The face also needs to be consistent (no hard and soft spots) and, as I said, firmly attached to the underlying meat of the anvil.

Hardfacing MIG wire, which is generally flux-cored, can typically lay down a bead at around 50 Rockwell C. That's somewhat softer than a file (typically 55-ish Rockwell C) but still much harder than mild steel (maybe as high as 20 Rockwell C, typically closer to 75 Rockwell B.)

And since MIG welds can be pretty much applied wherever you need it, and built up by layers to whatever thickness you want, it's pretty much the best overall route.

Doc.

Posted on Apr 27, 2013, 12:00 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

marginally-clued wannabe question

by LostinAPhogg

Things I'd naively try before sighing heavily and renting a MIG set:
1. J-B Weld -- steel-filled epoxy, reputedly machinable/tappable
2. soldering -- shouldn't soften the hardened facing
3. brazing -- tougher, should require only quenching to reharden
Opinion as to how well each of these might work -- or how it might fail?


Posted on Apr 27, 2013, 7:57 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

None of them will stand up...

by

Unfortunately none of those methods will stand up to use.

After all, the entire purpose of an anvil is to lay a bar of red-hot steel on it, and pound it into a new shape with large hammers.

Out of all your options, brazing would be the strongest, but it will still eventually fail. The brass fill, being considerably softer than the iron or steel, will eventually deform, it'll "peen" as the area is repeatedly hammered, and try to "flow" out of the way. Think of hitting silly putty with a hammer- the brass will do the same thing, though of course to a lesser, slower extent.

The face of my anvil is actually dished slightly- it's been hammered on so much (before I got it) that there's a slightly low spot on the face. Part of it is undoubtedly wear (the abrasion of hot steel and slag) but part of it is the iron body of the anvil has "sagged" slightly from the force of hundreds of thousands- if not millions- of hammer blows.

So the anvil needs to be as solid as possible- the hard face has to be firmly welded, as permanent a part of the body as is possible.

Doc.

Posted on Apr 28, 2013, 7:47 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I should've specified...

by

...that I was thinking of using the hardfacing rod to weld the pieces back on, which would hopefully minimize the "corrugation" effect, but, yeah, I can imagine how the surface hardness fluctuations would be a problem.

Ahh, well, good luck! Take pictures!

Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 10:59 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

another clueless Newb question

by irregular logic

I know this will bring a crapload of concerns of metallurgy, but what melting it back down and recasting it? The iron alloy would be the same composition.

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 8:39 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

works for the body, but. . .

by Maker of Toys

the main casting isn't where the problem is. The question has to do with the extraordinarily hard 'face' that goes on top of the casting.

getting the appropriate sort of steel plate for the face, putting it into the mould as a 'chill' and pouring the remelted body again might work, but you'd still have to reharden and regrind that face material.

all in all, anvils generally don't need much fixing, but when they DO need it, they REALLY need it.


Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 11:14 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

But heat treating is pretty straight forward for cast iron

by Irregular Logic

Isn't it?

from what I gather, it's essentially working in extra carbon (in the form of charcoal or coke) into the heated iron then quenching it. No forging or refining needed.

Recasting the entire thing (Mind you, it would require a hell of a furnace - we are talking about ~100lbs of iron here) would get you a fresh surface to (re)start from. After shaping and machining, just case harden it and its ready for another tour of duty.


Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 11:35 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Harden cast iron? just. . . no.

by Maker of Toys

Carbon content isn't everything, else we'd be making lathe tooling from Cast Iron.

You see, cast iron actually contains A LOT (like +/- 4%?) of carbon. That's part of why its so soft and yet brittle. If you break a casting, and look at the fresh surface, you'll actually be able to see the little blobs of carbon/graphite that were forced out of the iron as it solidified. . . that graphite keeps the iron grains from 'sticking' together, and so the material is easy to cut, and not very crack-resistant. That same graphite is what makes cast iron suitable as a low-speed bearing material, though. . . it tends to hold lubricants in its pores.

Ironically (oooh, bad pun) the graphite content simultaneously makes cast iron easy to machine, AND hard on tools. (Graphite is amazingly abrasive stuff in its solid form. Solid graphite eats tools (even carbide inserts) MUCH faster than 316 Stainless, in my experience.)

Something like spring steel (1095) is closer to what you want, and has a carbon content of slightly less than 1%. 0.95%, in fact. . .)

So: Adding more carbon to the cast iron isn't going to help. . . you'd actually do better to go the opposite way, but controlling the carbon content in a melt is a little involved for a one-off operation in someones back yard.

That, and there's not much in the way of alloying elements in cast iron; Manganese, Moly, Chrome, and Cobalt all promote hardness and toughness, and are the things that you'll find in your top surface, but not through the bulk material. Remelting and recasting the whole thing will tend to disperse those elements through the entire mass, thus reducing the concentration where you need it most.

Getting the alloying right in a small-run operation isn't easy, and even if you managed it, the really hard steels generally don't cast well. Forging, grinding, or hot rolling are more the ways you'd want to try to form the stuff.

Again, not really a small-operation option.

Better to get a short chunk of 136lb/yd railroad rail, and cast a new body around that. . . . then go through the whole re-hardening thing that Doc mentioned above. Not an easy small operation, but more manageable than trying to perform the chemical tricks you'd need to melt, re-alloy and cast an anvil out of the same material as the top plate.





Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 12:22 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Its about this broken

by

As the fellow I'm trying to help out is Amish, I can't get any pictures of the shop/anvil so you'll have to use your imagination for a minute.

The anvil has about a half inch deep divot across about 60% of the top. As you can imagine, this cause parts to have some undesirable shapes.

We can get a roll of Hard Facing Wire no problem, have a couple spare MIG machines in the shop most days so that may be the best option.

We were also talking about using a power hammer or hydraulic press to try to "Hammer" it back into shape, which is one of those ideas where your not sure if its terrible or fantastic.

Anyway, Thanks for your help.

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 5:28 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I hate to say it,

by Someone

but it may be better to look around for another anvil. The cost and time in welding this one may not be worth it.

It also might be time to look at it and see if it can be used for something as is, such as round bars if there's a groove all the way across.

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 3:57 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Preheat

by Mechniacal

Hey Doc,
During the repair of your anvil, did you preheat the the mass of metal? or just the surface area you were working on?

I have an old anvil that I have been thinking about refurbing as a hobby.
Some things I have seen so far indicate a 400F preheat would be a good temp.
One of the notes on this boards mentioned this same temp.

When looking at some weld procedure specifications for preheat, 200F-300F seems to be the range.

Any thoughts?


Posted on May 6, 2013, 3:00 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

TWB 26 Apr 13: Forgetting something

by Nohbody

I suppose Doc is fuzzy enough where "no pants" doesn't register, both outside and inside his head (hangover).

The reactions of the ladies seem a bit extreme, though. Only the artist would know for sure (and I'm not going to ask, don't really care), but I'm willing to hazard a guess his crotch *isn't* sporting some Cthuloid entity or somesuch. :P I know for sure neither is ignorant of male physiology, though, given events depicted (or at least suggested) earlier in the comic.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 5:03 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

They're just screaming because the see what they have been missing. N/T

by Anonymous Coward



Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 5:56 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Swamps and Doc discussed the horror...

by Torinir

a few years ago before Halloween. It's a given that a naked Doc is a scary sight.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 8:21 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

....and this is why I was laughing!

by Ketira

I'm sure everyone has been where Doc has been at least once in their life: They're half-awake & aware that they're missing something that they should be remembering.

I've been there, done that (although never naked) many times, wondering just WTH I was supposed to remember... and failing.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 11:02 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: ....and this is why I was laughing!

by CF

"Did you ever walk into a room of your house... and you can't remember why you went in there?

And two words float across your mind: 'ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE'...."

[G. Carlin]

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 12:30 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Oblivious bruin

by Attic Rat

Bare bear once unaware.
Is grateful he has lots of hair.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 6:05 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Ding Schwoonk? Ding ~dong~ :P

by Tobias Amaranth

Oops.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 11:53 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Just when the Girls thought Doc couldn't traumatize them more...

by

ding (It'll be just like Pavlov's experiment, only with screaming.)

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 4:52 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

It's the April 1st strip, but backwards! NT

by Pilchard123

Naked Thalarctos

Posted on Apr 27, 2013, 10:01 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Also:

by CF

There's been no mention of underwear....

Remind me never to borrow Doc's trousers.

Posted on Apr 27, 2013, 2:48 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Well, some strip did mention that

by Anonymous Coward

After the first zombie arc Swampie and Sandy were borrowing Doc's clothes and found no underwear.

Posted on Apr 28, 2013, 9:30 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Hey guys check this out more TWB in the wild

by

http://www.afblues.com/wordpress/2009/02/06/x/


more

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 2:55 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

The hell...?

by

Did I see that right? Doc NOT using an autococker?

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 8:41 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

That was my response too...

by Squirlly

It must be a rental at an impromptu game.

-Tim


Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 4:46 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Doc's autococker

by Chloe

Given it's Doc, and his habbit of over modifing.. maybe they didn't have a couple of weeks to draw it? wink.gif

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 7:05 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Given the 4/26 comic, and the average adult mind....n/t

by Someone

Definitely not going there.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 7:49 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Getting the shaft... and then splining it!

by

Here's a fun one. Fairly straightforward, just a bit tricky in execution.

Customer came in with this aftermarket Currie axle shaft, I'm not sure what it originally fit, and a front Dana 44 4WD solid axle shaft.

[linked image]

The Currie axle is (was?) brand new, a nice heavy-duty racing piece.

[linked image]

The job? Cut it down to a foot long and respline it to fit the Dana pumpkin. The customer is making a custom diff for one of his customer's hot-rod project, so some of the excess meat had to go. happy.gif

[linked image]

Unfortunately, the axle, despite a quick file test, proved harder than I expected, and I managed to wipe out a good fine-tooth Starrett bandsaw blade, inflicting virtually no damage to the axle in the process. Kinda cuts into the profit margin...

I had to use an abrasive saw, going very slowly and cutting in steps as to not overheat- and thus, risk spot hardening it. Took a bit of time, but it worked.

Next step was to rap out the studs with a non-marring bronze hammer...

[linked image]

... Which I had to do in order to be able to properly chuck it up in the lathe.

[linked image]

Note the roller steady rest in order to allow a good facing cut and accurate center drill, so that I can use a proper live center for the actual work.

Also note the interesting behavior of the metal:

[linked image]

That's not due to differences in speeds or feeds. The axle shaft is, in effect, "case hardened". The outer "skin", about 3/16" deep in this case, is quite hard- or rather, very tough. Not so much 'hard' like glass or ceramic, but very cut-resistant.

While the inner "core" is considerably softer- still pretty tough (it's all the same piece of steel, just heat-treated differently) but noticibly easier to cut. This is pretty standard on most factory and aftermarket axle shafts- a very strong skin for strength, a softer core to help it absorb shock and flex so it won't break. You knife guys might recognize that as a standard concept for everything from sword blades to axe heads; hard cutting edge, softer, more flexible body to help resist shattering.

Now, a sharp carbide insert had no trouble cutting it- and in fact, given the right speed and feed, produced a very nice near-mirror finish.

[linked image]

However, my lathe had neither the HP nor the rigidity for any significant cut. I tried heavier cuts in back-gear, but the metal tended to tear rather than cut. So I baby-sat it while it worried off 0.020" at a time.

Gave me plenty of time to write up a list of things I need to fix or upgrade on the lathe, though. happy.gif

Last couple of finish passes left a very nice surface.

[linked image]

Last pass of... I think it was 0.006" to get to my final size.

[linked image]

And the slight 'step' of about 50 thou. The splined area is slightly smaller than where the seal goes, so the splines don't damage the seal upon installation.

[linked image]

Then it's over to the mill for the standard dividing head setup:

[linked image]

The chuck I have on the dividing head isn't big enough to grab the axle flange as I did in the lathe, nor would the jaws close down far enough to grab the center locating stub. Or, when the jaws are in the normal configuration, they wouldn't open far enough to grab even the center, let alone the outer.

My dividing head, however, came with a dead center and a sort of "dog plate" for between-centers use.

[linked image]

However, there was no way to use an actual dog, so I rummaged through the scrap bin, found a short chunk of heavy angle-iron, and with a few deft cuts and a run through both the Nichols mill and Arboga drill, had a suitable driver.

The dividing head, while an import, uses the same principles that makers have been using for well over a century. My favorite reference for these is a copy of Brown & Sharpe's Practical Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines from 1913 (as in, a full century old) which is one of the books Google digitized and made available for download.

I had a shop print it out and spiral-bind it (though I'd love to have an original) and it's been surprisingly useful ever since.

So, since I needed 30 splines (I counted them at least twice) according to the book I could use the 18, 33 or 39-hole selections. I already had the indexing plate with the 33-hole ring installed so I used that one.

That required, in the book's parlance, 1-11/33rd turns. That is, one and one-third turns, or 11 of the 33 holes.The indexer has a pair of movable arms... Hm, I suppose I should have taken a photo of that... called a quadrant. You move these in order to help keep track of fractional turns- they simply serve as markers as you turn the crank handle.

That's a highly simplified description, of course- the book has a couple of chapters devoted to it- but in effect, I needed to mill a spline, crank the handle one-and-a-third turns, mill another spline, lather, rinse, repeat.

And, as a final double-check, I only made a light skim cut of about 0.010" for the first go-around. If the splines lined back up when I came back around to the start, everything's kosher.

[linked image]

It took about three passes to get to the correct depth (and Guild regulars might recognize the carbide cutter I made specifically for cutting splines.) The customer had brought one of the spider gears out of the diff, so I had in effect a go-no-go gauge for fitting. A little care and we've got a perfect fit.

[linked image]

The question, however, will be how strong the new splines will be. Most of the work was still in the hard "skin", but I think the root of the splines may be right on the ragged edge. I've warned the customer of this, and he understands, I think. We've considered the possibility of sending it off for re-heat-treatment, but that'll be up to the final owner- the guy who's building the actual hotrod.

All I have left is to give the splines a quick rub with a deburring wheel, and she's done.

[linked image]

Et voila~!

[linked image]

So what's the hotrod? If I understand it correctly... a midengine PT Cruiser. happy.gif

Yeah, that's kinda what I said. happy.gif If I ever see it, I'll get pics.

Doc.

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 2:53 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I was buying it all the way to the last line, there.

by Semi-anonymous coward

Seriously, that's one hell of an expensive setup for a bad joke.

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 7:37 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Hope the end use knows what he's getting.

by MephitMark

In some regards it might have been practical if you either got some sort of waiver or a video recording of you warning about the splines.

But I am REALLY more interested in the book you got out of Google. Any others of interest? It took me a few minutes, but I got a PDF copy of that book, and looking many other type of books. The modern books on machining are fair enough, but since the majority of machining is CNC the manual skills are not well covered any more. And if I want to do any work in my own shop I would like to have the type of information that Machinist of those that really knew how to do it!

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 2:24 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Books...

by

That Brown & Sharpe book is actually more of a catalog- it essentially showed what sorts of mills B&S made, and what could be done with them. But, there's enough of the latter that it's still very interesting- gang milling (in some cases using 24" diameter cutters) helical milling (connecting the dividing head to the table feed mechanism to produce a spiral cut, as in for a drill bit flute) using profile cutters, etc.

Not a great deal of detail- as in, the descriptions don't really go in depth on most of it- but even just the pictures are a wealth of knowledge.

And the back half of the book are various tables for using dividing heads and the like- the same thing's available in any copy of Machinery's Handbook, but to me it's easier to find in Practical Treatise.

As for other books, it depends on what you're looking for. For lathe work, South Bend's How To Run a Lathe is still pretty much the beginner's bible for using small manual lathes. I'd taken two or three college classes and had been running a lathe for years before I bought a copy, and even I learned plenty of little tips.

There's no equivalent that I'm aware of for a mill, though- you either get sections on mills in a book covering several different machines (such as the ubiquitous Machine Tool Practices textbooks) or you get a book of mill projects that, while good practice, assume you already know the basics.

Doc.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 4:27 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

PDF book found here

by B

http://books.google.com/books?id=x8JKAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 1:44 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

B&S PDF book found -- some tips

by Niteowl in Phoenix

A good read. But a 21 Mb file as is from the web page. I downloaded the PDF, then (using Acrobat) deleted some blank and/or extraneous pages. Then hit "reduce file size" -- which mainly works on the photos -- and the resulting file was then only 8.8 Mb.

Niteowl in Phoenix

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 11:50 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

RE: Getting the shaft...

by

So what's the hotrod? If I understand it correctly... a midengine PT Cruiser.

Wait, wut? I didn't think the PT chassis would support a mid-engine without a full rebuilt with custom everything.

For some reason, I'm suddenly highly interested in seeing pictures of that build.

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 4:54 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

It might be relative...

by Kevinbunny

If one extends the FRONT out a bit, like a dragster, then the engine becomes in the middle by default, yes?

Yeah, I dunno.. I got nothin'.

Given the cut-down shaft, I'd have to say that yes, a certain amount of work IS being done.

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 11:28 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I'd be very surprised if the original splines weren't originally rolled

by Dosh

He's probably lost a good bit more strength than he thought. But you have to do what the customer wants and let it be on him in the end sometimes.

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 5:19 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Splines...

by

The splines on the factory Dana 44 axle were very probably rolled- or at least swaged. The splines on the Currie axle, however, were definitely cut, and after heat-treatment.

Doc.

Posted on Apr 27, 2013, 12:03 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Why do you say it was cut after heat treating? nt

by Dosh

Nt

Posted on Apr 27, 2013, 2:46 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Psychic powers?

by

happy.gif

From the color of the metal. The machined areas are white, the "body" of the shaft is darkened from the heat-treatment.

Currie, as well as other aftermarket axle makers, tend to have bulk shafts made; forged and then rough-turned to near-net shape, then heat-treated. Then the makers themselves take the semifinished "blanks" and machine them as appropriate for whichever particular differential housing they're supposed to fit, as well as drill it for the desired bolt pattern, and so on.

In this case, the original Currie splines appear a somewhat lighter tone than the unsplined portion of the shaft. It's certainly possible there was a second heat-treatment after final machining, but in any case, it was clear that most of the finish work was done after that initial treatment.

Doc.

Posted on Apr 27, 2013, 7:34 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I gotcha. I'm very surprised then.

by Dosh

I wouldn't have thought they'd cut corners like that for a racing component that is the last link in getting the power to the wheels. It's like rolling threads, the additional strength makes the process worth the time and aggravation.

Posted on Apr 28, 2013, 3:16 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

The problem there....

by

... Is that rolling splines takes a massive, specialized machine, and it has to be done while the metal is red-hot.

meaning the "blank" forgings are rough-machined, the end is reheated to red, the splines rolled, then the whole thing needs to be heat-treated again.

That's fine for a car factory that's making 10,000 axles a day, but the aftermarket companies might only make 50 of one style of axle a year.

So what happens is they order a bunch of stock forgings, have them rough-machined to a basic size, then heat-treated, all done by a production shop that does nothing but the forging and rough turning.

The aftermarket company then buys a few hundred blanks, and turns them to fit this or that differential- meaning all they really do is turn the wheel flange, the bearing and seal seats, cut it to length, then spline it. All of which needs nothing more than a decent-sized lathe and a good mill. (Though I'm sure Currie and Strange, etc. all have CNC machines to do the work.)

Doc.

Posted on Apr 28, 2013, 12:02 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

They can be cold worked

by Dosh

Particularly with the size of what you were dealing with. I understand what you're saying, if they don't have the machinery themselves then they are stuck outsourcing to a shop that's rolling custom splined shafts. That's a good way to get stuck in a bind over delivery times when you're dealing with onesy-twosies or small batches. I guess though if it was a problem they would have addressed it already.

Posted on Apr 29, 2013, 8:32 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Seal surface

by

It's not a problem for this shaft because there will be a seal at the bearing end, but if you do this for a front axle you will have an oil leak. A lathed turned surface will leak with an oil seal even with a smooth finish there will still be a bit of a spiral lead to the surface. If you need an oil seal to not leak, the best method I know of for a small shop is after turning with the shaft still in the lathe use a piece of fine emery cloth to remove the lead and insure that any groves are perpendicular to the shaft.

Posted on Apr 27, 2013, 8:44 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

TWB 4/24/2013

by

Was...was that the Weighted Companion Cube?

Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 4:08 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Weighted Companion Fridge N/T

by Kitkun



Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 4:17 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Callback!

by

Mr Peabody, what does the Wayback machine say?

http://www.the-whiteboard.com/autotwb1045.html



Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 6:05 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Better callback!

by Robin Bobcat

http://www.the-whiteboard.com/autotwb1020.html

So, he's just down in the maintainence sublevel, just in time for the weekly fridge 'cleaning'.

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 2:38 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Is good callback

by Dena

More talky, less crunchy, though.

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 5:00 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Why is the Dew glowing? <nd>

by MarkT

Nuclear Dew

Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 4:30 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Home Brew (N/T)

by jwhouk

Nuclear Tangerine Flavor

Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 5:01 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Nuclear Dew

by Steve Ronin

I want some...
but the guys at Pepsi marketing laughed when I asked for it.

sad.gif

Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 6:50 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

They should call it Glow-in-the-Dew <nd>

by MarkT

Nuclear Dew Forever!


Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 9:50 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Yeah, but it's still a bit weak for Doc's tastes...

by

After all, the glass is still intact. happy.gif

Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 11:42 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

err...

by digi_owl

That's a can...

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 1:27 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

re err

by Chloe

I think he means the dew must be weak for Doc, as the "break glass" hasn't been broken and the dew already drunk!

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 8:59 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Re: re err

by

I was more meaning the Dew hadn't dissolved the can and the glass yet. happy.gif You have seen Doc's preferred concentrate level, right? wink.gif

Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 8:00 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Er: err

by Chloe

Hah, yeah.

But also, if it was the right type, I could see it already having been drunk before it was needed for an emergency.

Of course, drinking it also seems to lead to most emergencies, so...


Posted on Apr 26, 2013, 10:19 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Glow Blue !

by niteowl in Phoenix

Cherenkov Dew !!
http://ask.metafilter.com/64861/Tours-to-the-atomic-blue-glow

As an undergrad physics student in 1964, I got a tour of the (now decommissioned) Ford Nuclear Reactor at the U. of Michigan, Ann Arbor.
Photo here, looking down into the reactor "swimming pool" -- 20 feet of water acts as a moderator and rad shielding.
[linked image]

Niteowl in Phoenix

Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 11:59 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Now we know what's wrong...

by Squirlly

... At the U of M, it's suffering from Radiation Poisoning AND as one defender of the University once tried to argue the U of M has the largest and BEST Law School out side of the Ivy League. (But again I think that just proved MY point that the U of M stinks).... If you haven't figured it out yet...

GO BUCKS

Sorry couldn't resist

-Tim

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 4:50 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

gotta love the cherenkov radiation:P n/t

by FireFrenzy

No Glow

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 10:56 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who had that first thought. [n/t]

by CR Pyro

Everything2
How to turn a kraken house into a kraken home (how-to)
See all of How to turn a kraken house into a kraken home, no other writeups in this node.
(how-to) by alex Fri Oct 30 2009 at 8:46:58

Life can be challenging for molluscs, even for the most daunting and terrifying mythical ones. As a young kraken, perhaps you're fed up with having to deal with people who sneer and act like you don't exist. Perhaps you're a bit depressed about being fifty years old and never having been able to sink your beak into one of those tasty schooners that grandpa brags about having snacked for breakfast in his day. You say there aren't any. The old wise-ass just says you're too lazy to find any, and that today's youth has no appreciation for the screams of doomed mariners. Kids, they say, just want to gobble fast food and drink cheap swill like mazut. Of course, at their age "fast food" means anything that goes more than eight knots with a tailwind.

As a young, up-and-coming member of your species, you want a way to assert yourself and establish your position in life. You're fed up of living in a hole. And my advice is that asserting yourself begins at home--nay, it begins with the home. Ever since you moved out of ma and pa's mansion on the abyssal plain to the big reef city, you've suffered from a lack of space, companionship, and, possibly, whaler-bone doilies. That sort of life is not fit for a cuttlefish, let alone a kraken.

So, first, expand your horizons. Or at least expand the horizon that's twenty feet across and next door to a school of clownfish. It's really hard to be intimidating when your roof is being crapped on by stripy, giggling fish, and you don't get much respect when your ambience is so shallow. Ditch the reef and set your sights on something outside the epipelagic ghetto and distinctly more chthonian. A nice little cavern along the continental margin is the least you should have if you want to command a modicum of respectability as a fierce, heartless predator of the innocent.

Finding a suitable kraken house is just the beginning, of course. You still have to make it habitable after you evict whatever that thing with the eighteen jaws was and claim the place. And by habitable, I do not mean that you move in, look around, and let it all hang out. You have to make it yours. You need to roll up your hide and mark the place with your personality and melanin. After all, one of the principal components of improving your lot is to get laid, and that won't happen until you can make an impression that amounts to more than a dinner-plate sized ring of goo on a RO/RO's hull. Clean up after yourself. If you eat the previous tenants, don't keep their stuff around. You don't want your guests to think that you consider Jackson Pollock to be more than a source of calories, do you? Dump anything that's not edible in the nearest hydrothermal vent.

Atmosphere and decoration are the most important part. As a high-order mollusc, your senses are keen. Act like it. You want your digs to smell like Davy Jones's locker room, not like the perfume counter at Harrod's, when that deliciously slimy krakenette finally agrees to come home with you after you slip her that ethanol tanker. You cannot be serious about making the beast with two sacs when the lack of shredded flesh on your couch can't even begin to satisfy your own gustatory organs, let alone your mate's. And get rid of the pin-ups. Your date won't be nearly as impressed by Miss Mesopelagic 2005's continental shelf as you are.

Don't forget the intellectual touch. A few casually scattered books will always impress. Toss a copy of Moby Dick on the side table and make sure that the GIANT SQUID volume that you never read (you're not a political cryptid, after all) is conspicuous on its shelf. The stack of Octopussy mags needs to go. No one believes that you read them for the articles when the well-worn centerfold drops out as you open the rag. Show a lighter side, too, and make room for some comedy like Jacques Cousteau and some fashionable sci-fi about land-dwelling monsters next to it. Your music collection should be compact and mainstream. A few contemporary compilations of groaning hulls (to set the mood, dummy!) and some classics like the soundtrack from the sinking of the Titanic. Stay away from avant-garde rubbish like Imploding Submarines, it doesn't impress anyone.

Storage, too, is an important aspect of a home. Once you find that special something, she will want to know that you can provide as well as she can. Your pantry should fit at least a medium container ship or two and you should have at least a chest freezer, a leg freezer, and an anoxic shed in the back yard. Keep them well stocked at all times. You never know who'll show up with an appetite, and it might just discourage your parents from dragging fresh sailors with them when they visit and having them take up space until you can give them away. Your mother never could remember that you prefer Filipinos to Greeks and insists on buying too much of both. Try to look like you're on a healthy diet so don't store any nuclear subs or fattening cruise ships where they can be seen.

Once you're all settled in your new kraken house, you can start working on seriously improving your position in kraken society. You'll be able to meet more influential monsters. Your career will be better off when you're not ashamed to invite your boss to dinner and a proper home will let you do just that. After all, you don't want to spend your life wiping someone else's benthic bottom when you could be a dashing sperm whale ranger. A house with character shows your cephalopod peers (and superiors) that you're a blue-blooded go-getter and not some two-hearted, coral-hugging, vertebrate-loving pansy.

Classy marine doom takes work, my limb-regenerating friend. And class starts with your immediate surroundings. Now go ahead and start working on swapping that dump of yours for a properly hadean kraken home waiting to be filled with terrible love, beaky death, and the squelch of little tentacles.
Category: « Cosmic Monstrosities and Lovecraftian Abominations »



Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 6:46 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Thank you for participating in this...

by Xheralt

thE weIghTed coMpaNion fRidGe hAs bEen DestRoyed. It wiLL nEver ThrEateN yOu aGaiN. i wOulD of cOuRse NevEr thReaten yOu, as wE boTh know yoU wOuLd nOt surVive thAt, anD it woULd be cOntRary tO tHe eXperieMent in pRogRess...at ThiS tIme...pLeasE pRoCeed tO thE clEarly maRked exIt tHat hAs beEn cOnveNieNtly ProVided fOr yoU.

Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 9:55 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I thought it was a portal reference at first as well.

by Wanderer

It took me a few seconds before I remembered the fridge disposal system.

PS: Where can I get some glow-in-the-dark Dew? My doctor convinced me to cut down on caffeine a few years back, so I don't really drink the stuff much any more, but just owning some would be awesome. Does Doc do home deliveries? wink.gif

Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 4:30 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Glow in the dark clearcoat? I wonder if that would give the desired affect... NT

by Mawson

HAH! THEY ALWAYS CHECK THE BODY OF THE MESSAGE!

Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 10:03 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Glowing drinks

by Danny Beans

The easiest way to make a drink glow is to mix in some tonic water and hit it with a blacklight. Tastes nasty (I hate the stuff), but it'll glow blue. Other nontoxic options are B vitamins (yellow) and chlorophyll extract (red).

Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 10:19 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

I often have a glowing drink in hand...

by Robin Bobcat

When I go to room parties at conventions, I will often have a martini glass filled with a brightly glowing fluid. Puzzled inquiries as to its nature are met with the answer 'Mountain Dew and Plutonium'. In all seriousness, it's actually just glowstick fluid. The trick is not to /drink/ the stuff*, but rather to walk around looking suave. Avoid spilling, as it does stain.



*it is /technically/ non-toxic. However it A) is oil-based, so will go through you without stopping for the lights, B) may contain small shards of glass from the catalyst tube within, and C) contains a bittering agent, which means it tastes as absolutely disgusting as they can make it, to avoid A and B.**

I tell people this, and they /still/ want to try tasting it. I tell them to dip a finger in, and then taste. Their reactions are uniformly amusing. My faith in humanity dies a little when their friends see the reaction and say 'Oh, it can't be that bad', and /they/ want to try... and when I tell people /that/ story, then /they/ want to try it... sigh

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 11:36 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Need 2 stroke help from the Guild. (Pics inside)

by

Okay, I wouldn't be coming here if I didn't have a Real Problem. I have done my best to balance this equation, and so far I've come up empty.

Introducing, The Patient:

http://motodrachen.tumblr.com/image/48734958898

1979 Motobecane 50V. Import AV10 engine, Airsal 74cc cylinder (Bridged exhaust port) Polini Head, CDI, Dellorto Carb, etc. Nightmare power on a moped frame.

Which brings me to my problem. 450f at Cruise is not a kosher cylinder head temperature, and it only goes up once the RPMs come up high enough to tap into the Pipe's power (which is like bolting another engine on, at 40mph)

I have the ignition timing retarded to .8mm Before Top Dead Center (1.6 is normal) and it's running a rich mix. Cylinder cranking pressures were read at 110PSI just tonight, though it's possible that was a bad read.

That Polini head is Much better at cooling than the stock head, but it's Squish angle is actually Negative compared to the piston dome. Jennings' book doesn't cover that, and I'm hesitant to start cutting and sanding a combustion chamber without first consulting The Village Elders.

And before you rag on me for it being a Moped, bear in mind that in France and South California they race these things at 70+mph. I could have bought a used Yamaha motorcycle at this point, but I'd rather have a God Moped than a beater Yamaha.

Posted on Apr 23, 2013, 4:52 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

in Aircooled VW service. . .

by Maker of Toys

Sometimes too LITTLE ignition advance can generate heat like too MUCH advance. Near TDC, a difference of 0.8mm of piston travel is a LOT or crank degrees, and moving from +/-30 deg back to +/-20 deg total advance heats a VW up just like a couple steps lean on the mains. (YMMV. . . . 4-stroke practice doesn't always map to 2-strokes)

Also: pull the plug and read the center insulator. You want a nice, dry, smooth 'mocha' brown to a 'deer' tan. Anything outside that range (white, black, grey, crusty, wet. . . ) indicates a mix problem, or (given that this is a two-stroke) a lube-ratio problem. As you say you're running what should be a rich mix, that might point at a leak in the crank-case or somewhere in the intake (or EXHAUST(!!!), now that you've got a 'can on there. . .)


Does it pull well from idle? Or is there some 'bog' as you snap the throttle? Is the idle slow and even, or fast and a little irregular? (slow and smooth is usually too-retarded spark; Bog is usually mix, but sometimes spark.)

How's your magneto? a weak spark will sometimes show up as slow burning or elevated EGT/CHT.


Final point: I'm not a Moped guy, but those fins on the head in your picture don't look like they're optimally aligned with air-flow for cooling. . . . maybe a little creative cardboard work to generate a little side-bias on the oncoming air to line the flow up with the fins, and try your temperature reading again? If that works, you can make something a little prettier and a lot less temporary. . . if it doesn't, well, the cardboard was cheap.

Posted on Apr 23, 2013, 7:30 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Check for air leaks

by Sleepydawg

If you're getting a lean-out condition, see if there's air coming in anywhere. Any air leaks will introduce extra air that doesn't get metered through the carb, leaning it out. Take the carb and exhaust off, plug the ports with simple rubber plumber's plugs (available in an assortment of sizes at your local big-box store), and pull a vacuum on the crankcase through the carb pulse line nipple, if you have one. If your engine doesn't have a pulse line port, then you'll have to adapt a plug with a hole for a pass-through brass tube or something.

When I do this on our Yamaha KT100 2-stroke kart motors, we fail it if it the needle on the vacuum gauge moves at all over a 15 minute period. Typical failure will be the base gasket on the exhaust side or a crank seal.

The other advice on bogging or such on a throttle application is spot-on.

-Zzzzzz

Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 6:21 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Another way to check for air leaks

by Pneuman

With the engine idling, spray ether at the crankshaft seals, base gasket, anywhere else around the crank case that is sealed for the trasfered air/fuel.

If the idle RPM go up when you're spraying, you just found a leak.

Hope this helps,
Pneuman



Posted on Apr 24, 2013, 9:07 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Works well, but don't do it with the engine hot.

by Deus Machina

If you can't test it cool, my trick is to go out with a cigar. Take a puff, blow the smoke through a bit of hose at anywhere there may be a leak. You'll be able to see if it's being sucked in (vacuum or intake leaks) or blown away (exhaust).

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 12:42 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Better yet

by Renegade_Azzy

Spray water. The engine will bog a bit. Im not talking douse it with a hose, just a spritz will work.

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 5:58 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

On the right track finally.

by

I took some time last night and reshaped the Combustion Chamber on the Polini head. As I guessed, it was cast for Much shallower dome pistons.

So I took my time with a dremel, trash piston, sharpie and some sandpaper, and got it more or less straightened out into a nice parallel squish. Hogged out some area around the spark plug to lower the compression a bit more and give a nice sharp edge to the combustion chamber instead of the big fat radius previously noticed.

It idles 100f Cooler, and Cruises at 330f. Still spikes near 400 when I really let it rip, but idle is more even, it hasn't lost any power, and throttle response has shot Way up.

Another thing I noticed is that the Boost Ports are angled to release their charge against the exhaust side of the head, a VERY shallow angle for boosters. If I was going to correct those, I'd need to use a ton of epoxy and probably do some additional port work, like transfer holes through the piston skirt.

Any ideas there? the heat problem can now be solved with ram scoops like I had planned, and timing/mix adjustments.

And no, I water bath leakdown tested this motor when I built it up, head mating surface has been lapped with 2600 grit against glass-on-surface block, and sealed with RTV grey. The cylinder and head have to be pried apart the bonding is so strong. The base gasket is brand new, the crank seals are tight, and a basic leakdown test with Simple green and air pressure showed no leakage. It was all incorrect combustion chamber design.

Posted on Apr 25, 2013, 7:55 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Huhhhh

by Sleepydawg

Well now, that's interesting. I KNOW about squish and making sure the ports have proper turbulence and what-not, but that's the first I've heard of it having that level of performance problems.

Maybe I need to go back to the shop and do some throw-away head designs against a known bottom-end/cylinder on the dyno. Might learn something to give the team an edge...

-Dave

Posted on Apr 30, 2013, 10:26 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Minor TWB page glitch in archives?

by Mawson

I've been reading archives from '06 and '07 and the last letter of any commentary blurb bellow the strip seems to be missing. It appears to be missing from the html too. Here's an example.http://www.the-whiteboard.com/autowb770.html

I wonder what happened, some error while transferring the old pages to a new layout maybe? Any ideas?

Posted on Apr 22, 2013, 1:26 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Example tw

by Mawson

http://www.the-whiteboard.com/autowb811.html

Posted on Apr 22, 2013, 1:41 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Not sure...

by

Huh. First I've seen it... Not sure why it does that, though I have been wondering why some random strips have a single tilde in the comment area...

It may have something to do with an app Curt wrote for me not too long ago, which gave me a bit more control over the database. I might have to look into that.

Doc.

Posted on Apr 22, 2013, 11:45 PM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Yeah, I noticed it too. . .

by Maker of Toys

. . . but put it down to powering through the archive on a smart-phone.

It's been doing that for something like a month and a half(?), if that helps nail it down.

Posted on Apr 23, 2013, 9:52 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

Tilde appeared much earlier than that

by tkzv

I've downloaded the archive with a "spider" in November 2011, when my internet was too unstable for browsing it online.http://the-whiteboard.com/autowb332.html saved on November 11 2011 has the tilde, buthttp://the-whiteboard.com/autowb770.html has the correct text.

Posted on Apr 27, 2013, 5:46 AM

Respond to this message

Goto Forum Home

eXTReMe Tracker