To be honest, I think the answer is simply going to be IC - which she is in, but last night I saw one of the big problems my W has.

We went out for a drink and some food together after work, and with the tube strike on it was pretty quiet.

Now, when we were on holiday my W commented how some people make friends on holiday and she didn't know how you did it. I said I was never particularly bothered about doing so, but it was just the same as making friends with someone in the pub or similar. And she said she'd never really understood that either. I had told her about when at uni myself and a friend had gone on long slow pub crawls, that usually lasted until we accidentally befriended someone in one pub and then were stuck in that pub for the duration. This seemed completely foreign to her.

So last night we went to this one pub and it was pretty quiet due to being the City and the tube strike. We got a drink and played on the quiz machine, losing terribly but it was good fun. We were laughing and joking and she looked happy and we were having a good time. When I ran out of change, and our drinks were empty, I went back to the bar and left her stood near the quiz machine. When I came back my W had turned her back on the machine (to look in her handbag or similar) and a guy on his own had walked up to the machine and put £1 in. My W realised and reacted quite affronted by this, commenting something like "that rude man has just butted in". Yes ok, it was impolite not to ask "are you using this?" but its not crime of the century.

Anyway, the guy appologise when he realised his mistake (I give benifit of doubt that it was a mistake, my W would be convinced it was just deliberate rudeness), and asked if we should help him. I agreed and tried to encourage my W with that idea. The quiz started and I help with a q or too, but my W stayed resolutely silent. When his money was up he handed the machine back and since we had chatted a bit during his quiz, I suggested he could help us, again trying to stimulate a response from my W.

He happened to be from New Zealand, which is somewhere my W and myself really want to go to and are thinking of going next year (my W is especially keen). So I told him this and asked about the country a bit, again trying continually to coax my W to talk (e.g. "We're looking at wanting to go there next year, aren't we?" "Where was that place you want to visit when we are there?"). All I could get were one word answers.

In case it was a problem with his original faux pas and she just didn't like him, I made a flippant comment to the barmaid ("how much is half a pint of the cheapest bear?" "£1.30" "So if we win this round we still can't buy a drink!") which was enough to get her chatting a bit with us, but I still couldn't get my W to talk.

I tried my best by both example and by offering opportunity. It comes naturally to me, and it is clearly so difficult for her. This clearly must impact her ability to make friend.

Any suggestions?

Your wife is showing her dependence again. She could have opened her mouth and told the guy, quite pleasantly, that you two were using the machine and you would be right back with more change. She didn't have to stand there, do nothing, and then fume because he innocently assumed the two of you were through playing.

And if you know that your wife doesn't appreciate your talking to strangers instead of focusing on her, you could have gone to sit down with her and focused on being with her, instead of leaving her with the impression that you would rather talk to a stranger than with her.

It seems to me that you are both possibly guilty of attempting to read the other one's mind, of not expressing your opinions out loud, and of assuming that what is fine with one of you is or should be OK with the other.

There. Now I have given you both something to think about. My work here is done, so I'll fly away.

Just my fairy cents' worth,

fairyfriend

edited for a content error

Thank you for that, it has given me stuff to think about.

I was only so chatty because she had previously expressed interest in how people get chatting in those sort of situations, etc. so I saw the opportunity and demonstrated how it works.

I think it is probably a fair judgement that maybe she would have preferred my attention, and I'm glad you pointed that out. Afterwards I did return my full attention to her, but she did seem upset with me and I found that hard to understand.

I'll chalk it up as another thing for us to talk about.

Question though; given that she wants to make new friends - and you now have an idea how difficult she finds making new friends, can anyone suggest a good way of going about it?

Adam,

This is not your problem to solve. You can not do it for her. She has to find her own way. Your way is not going to work for her. I know that I have to force myself to talk to new people. It has gotten only a tiny bit easier for me, but in the long run, I know that I am better off for doing it. I think this is a major problem for you two. That is, both of you thinking you can fix her issues. You can't, only she can.

Ami

Adam,

what are things she is interested in?..there are many volunteer groups that you can join common interest helps make freinds...organizations that have meetings and social time...theater groups..that put on plays...people working together.

In the US there is welcome wagon for new people to the community...they have bridge groups, bowling, book clubs, sewing, quilt making, painting, crafts, activities for mem too...also there are womens soccer teams (football to you.)

just some ideas for you..

Pat



"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."

I know I can't solve the problems, and I probably try too hard. It's just so frustrating, and anything I can do to help or make it easier has to be a good thing?

Ami - although you had to do this yourself, what things would make it easier for you, and what would make it worse?

Someone wise once said that London is the loneliest city in the world, and I don't think you realise that until you live here!

Hopefully, she will make some friends on the edge of the group tonight (i.e. socially further from the OM). It is what she said she was going to try to do, but she will find it very hard, so I'm not optimistic.

Most likely she will spend the night analysing everyones action and getting upset that she thinks someone just gave her a dirty look or etc. missing out on the positive (this is what her IC said to her that she told me and we both agree sounds like her). He gave her an analogy, that if she sat an exam and you had to answer 1 of 4 questions, she would read all four questions and if she could only answer 1 she'd be upset and feel stupid that she was unable to do the other three...

Her IC is trying to get her to stop hunting for the negative side of things and holding on to it - he said that when things upset her, she is right to be upset, but she shouldn't let it spill over into everything because then she misses out. I see analogy in this with the rude guy at the pub, yes he was rude, but she "held a grudge" at the expense of enjoying herself. Possibly not the best example though...

Here's an echo from a previous post:

"Adam, as hard as it is, please try to let your W have her feelings. Even the hard ones. Its important for her to find her own coping mechanisms, working through the uncomfortable feelings towards resolution and happiness without relying on you to protect her from them. You can be there beside her and support her. Its just important for her to be in the driver's seat; you can "ride shotgun"."

Your W is on the threshold of becoming her better self. With the help of her IC, her open mind and your support FROM THE SIDELINES, she can walk through that door herself and feel a pride that will carry her through SO MUCH IN LIFE.

Your intentions are terrific. There's nothing wrong with brainstorming with her about things to try, applauding her successes and comforting her when there are losses or failures. Just don't "save the day". Your value shouldn't be based in rescuing her. And her value should be rooted in herself.

Your comment about London made me think about how lonely Chinook is feeling in Ottawa. The impersonal nature of a big city can be incredibly overwhelming. And its so much easier to get lost in a crowd. For shy people, or people with self-esteem issues I think that gets heightened. A city isn't a place to shine for them; its a place where it seems impossible to stand out and be special. But again, being seen as "special" - by a group of friends, by a spouse, by work - is really only as powerful as how special one sees oneself.

Maybe ask your W before she leaves tonight for the party to find at least one thing during the evening that really felt good and share it with you. Or challenge her and ask for the top 3 good things of the evening!
I remember doing this with my kids when they were younger to try to train them NOT to focus on the negative, but to count their blessings. When a person does this, it becomes harder to let the negative bleed over onto the positive. Just a thought.

I'm wishing you both the best. BlueIris


"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

Thanks BlueIris, I think I'm going to give that a try, that sounds like good advice. And thanks again for being understanding and sensititive. U R and asset to this board!

You're very welcome, Adam. You've been reminding me lately of myself...early on in the process. I remember feeling like I was running as fast as I could towards any possible way of saving the marriage. I'd try anything. Do anything. Again, the intention is great. But it becomes incredibly easy to burn oneself out to keep up that pace. And as dear El would say, this process is about you healing you, the WS healing themselves, and the marriage getting healed. There's only so much that we BS can do within the dynamic. At some point we have to trust and allow the WS to do their own work. That's especially difficult for those of us trained to "rescue" and "nurture" those we care for.

As for tonight, if its not too late, I'd recommend giving your W the "find the positive" assignment before she goes out. Be really encouraging. If you ask her to do this after the party, she may have already let the negatives spill over the evening.

Best wishes always. BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

Adam's picking up on how his W thinks & acts IS a useful thing for him to do, because it will actually help show him how much 'stuff' in the M is his, and how much is his W's. Considering carefully how the partner reacts to certain situations can help understand where one is at oneself.

Plus, like so many of us on HH, Adam's M could be seen as a bit off-balance in that one spouse is / has been overcompensating for the other's lack of various skills. It's not at all unusual (and I have to say it sure is hard to STOP doing it, too) but a little analysis of the situation can be very, very useful for the BS trying to work out where and how to go on.


I wouldn't advise obsessing too much over what W is not very good at and how to help her though Adam - that bit is hers for sure and needs to be firmly left right there > Well-informed is forearmed in this situation, but don't end up sticking yourself as well.

better also look out for those cheeky Kiwis though...!


C