After asking him several times over the last several weeks to leave, WH finally honored my request and left this evening. He came and picked up a few things, said good night to the kids and put out the garbage....said if I need anything to call. He said he doesnt want to go. Now he says lets try MC. WTF? Says MC can help us to get back together or separate amicably. While I agree with what he said, MC isnt going to do any good as long as I am talking to the weed and not the man. Today as we talked about him leaving he still had no clue why the pot is such a big deal...why I feel so betrayed when he hasnt done anything wrong since he says he is no longer cheating..claims to want the marriage and the family...begged me not to take it away from him! I wanted to laugh...no one took anything from him, HE GAVE IT AWAY! More like threw it away by his actions...I told him I am not to blame for the chocies he made...he chose the pot now he has to live with it...he knew the consequences....it was only a matter of time before I felt I had no choice but to uphold my boundaries.
I have a lot of mixed feelings and I am scared. I am not sure where this raod leads but it has to be better than the road I was on. Will we just remain separated or will we divorce....I don't know...I am going to take one day at a time for now...I am not looking to the future...I have to live in the now just to survive. This is not what I wanted. I wanted my marriage so badly but I cannot accept the pot...I just cant...and obviously he isnt willing to give it up! So this is how it ends....19 years of marriage next month...22 years together.
Thank you all for being there for me...
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
This message has been edited by SoCalGal on Nov 1, 2007 11:18 AM
I am sorry he has chosen to continue along this same, sorry road. He truly does not yet get it.
Stay strong. He needs to understand that you are not playing games. You are tired of having your marriage undermined by his drug use and lies. I am proud of you that you stood up for yourself and your kids.
It's ok to just live from one day to the next. I'm sure you will get plenty of support from your wonderful IC.
Sending you gaenormous hugs and strength from the Kid. I know you have the strength inside you to get through this, so you likely don't need mine! You had a practice run before, and that is okay...it helped you get where you are now. Take each day one step at a time in <as Ami says> baby steps. No leaps and bounds woman.....you might pull a muscle Okay maybe you can't laugh right now, but one day soon you will again.
Have I mentioned lately how proud I am of you. Just like a butterfly coming from its cacoon.
You should be proud of yourself. You have come such a long way. I'm remembering the woman a few years ago that was scared to say no to her H, let alone asking him to leave. Wow what a long distance you have travelled. You have demanded respect, and we ALL deserve that. You are so right, he made the choice, you didn't. You just upheld your boundaries. Good for you!
I just logged on tonight after weeks of being off HH and I saw this. Fate, coincedence? You brought me out of the woodwork tonight lady! I wanted to email you as I know I had your email address in my address book, but I cant locate it. Go figure.
Anyhow, I wanted you to know that I am thinking of you and have thought of you often. You are a strong, courageous lady and you should be recognized as just that. Whatever happens Cal, you and your kids will be ok. I know this because I have seen your sensibility, your persistence, caring personality and compassion in yours and others situations. Many of your words have been a guide for me in my trials and you have made a difference for me and in my life.
I so hope this short post can help make a difference in how you feel and see your future.
Good or bad, we will make it through.
Many hugs to you and everyone on HH.
Coral
"A discovery is said to be an accident meeting a prepared mind."
I'm just sending you hugs and my prayers. I know you will have some hard times, but they will pass. I'm a little bit further down the road of standing alone... I find that it does get easier eventually. Be strong, but be good to yourself too. Let those who love you help.
Diane
I'm really sorry that he never honored his commitment to you, and now you've been forced to set limits. I wished and I prayed for him to stand up to be the man in can be. I take it that even at this point he does not acknowledge that pot is a problem for him.
That's unfortunate and sad.
How's your support in the family? I hope they are standing with you and hopefully trying to help him.
I'd like to think this will finally make him realise what he's throwing away, but frankly I dont think he is capable. I've known other people like that - pi$$ed their lives away in a drug-induced stupor, and didn't see anything wrong with it.
Stay strong and look after yourself, you'll make it!
Hi Cal, my heart goes out to you. Reality is tough but the only place to find a place to be happier. His pot is a way of clouding reality and enabling his own dreams in his mind to live on. Time and space may blow those clouds away or he may wander further away. Given the children and the family connection there is a chance he may wake up and see the real world - But in the mean time you can only rely on yourself to know what is real and live. Fantasy is a kind of death. Reality is a kind of scary freedom. This is how kind of see things.
Cal - I am so sorry for all that you continue to go through.
All I can do is say that (at least in my experience) it begins to matter less and less what your FWS does or doesn't do ... it becomes about what you want and how you intend to go forward. Even if saving your marriage is ultimately what you want ... it just can't be done without a rock solid committment on the part of both of you. Sometimes (as in my case) you begin to realize that perhaps your FWS could do all of the 'right' things ... and it still might not be enough for you to move forward in your marriage.
Once you get to a place where you feel a sense of peace within yourself, a sense of calm in knowing what it is that you need to do for the sake of yourself and your family ... only then will you truly know what moving forward means to you.
I wish you nothing but the best - this ain't easy...
This message has been edited by KJR2 on Oct 31, 2007 11:16 AM
Thank you everyone for your support...it means so much to me. Right now, only those on this board know (and my BFF...who lives 3000 miles away). I have not told either side of the family, and therefor have no other support at this time. They will all find out soon enough, Im sure. Many knew my intentions though...but probably thought I would never ask him to leave...as they all feel "I am just too nice". Nice has nothing to do with it. Upholding my boundaries and doing what is best for me and the kids does.
H did show up this morning as I was on my way out the door. Our son left part of his Halloween costume at the business and H thought he might need it tonight for Trick-or-Treat, so he dropped it off. He asked me if I was OK...I said I am fine and that I had to go. But the truth is I am not fine...I am hurting. He said he had to go too...needed to get things for his time alone...said he loved me and left. Maybe some reality will set in for him as he shops...since I always did all the shopping and he always had everything he needed...and I always had a spare for when he ran out of anything...always thinking ahead and never wanting him to do without. Too bad he didnt thin that way abot me...GOD THIS IS HARD!
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
It's going to be hard at first Cal, but as the days go by the stabbing pain will ease a little bit at a time. You are SO strong, and he is seeing that you will not "tolerate" a mediocre M that has pot as a proverbial OW. He may play the victim role but you know better. He had every opportunity in the world to make the right choice.
Take care of YOU, sweetie. The way you have been. Hold your head up and be proud of the woman you are. You are teaching him how to treat you.
I am so sorry you are hurting, sweetie. It's OK to hurt, and it's ok to let go. You are mourning what you lost and what you never had, just thought you did.
Hang in there. I was telling my H last night about your current situation. I reminded him that you came to the board around the same time I first did (late December 2004). Reading your posts over the years, I have seen you grow so very much. You are, indeed, an amazing woman. Don't EVER, EVER forget that fact!
Cal, I heard in a marriage conference recently that there's a huge difference between being "nice", and being "kind". According to the speaker, being "nice" is what turns people into doormats. Being kind is the willingness to injure, or inflict pain, for the sake of reconciliation/healing. You've certainly inflicted some pain here, upon your H and even upon yourself and your family. But, being "nice" has nothing to do with it. It is kindness that has motivated you to make this decision. Maybe you'll be eventually reconciled with your H - the man, not the drug - that has yet to be seen. But certainly this is a step toward healing for you.
Dear, dear Cal,
I am sorry for the pain you are feeling and I can imagine its intensity. Yet, I am also amazed by you and your ability to stand up for yourself and your needs. I know how hard you worked to get this place and you have become a role model for me....if Cal can do it, so can I.
As one addict's wife to another, I understand the pain of separating from someone your love because of their substance abuse. You have to remember that you didn't cause their problem and you can't fix it. And you don't have to live with it either. As sad as I am for your suffering, I am glad that you have found the wisdom and strength to recognize that. You also have to remember that addicted people usually need to hit rock bottom before they become willing to make changes - so maybe you have helped him after all. And, if not, you can take comfort in knowing that you have done what is right for YOU and that you have established and held up your boundaries. Congratulations on that.
Lots of hugs and kisses - please let me know if there is anything I can do or if you ever need to chat.
I just wanted to add my hugs and sympathy to the others. I know how hard it is to say those words, "pack your bag and leave", and mean them. It was a wake up call for my H, and for your H before, but as we've both seen, letting go of the addiction (to whatever) is difficult for the WS and doesn't happen instantly. For my H, driving around looking for a hotel with all his possessions in three suitcases was the moment when he finally came out of the fog, saw OW for what she is, and realised what his life would be like if he couldn't stay with me. I so hope your H will have a similar moment of enlightenment (maybe as he walks around Walmart trying to figure out which shaving cream he uses). Stick to your boundaries and know you will be OK whatever happens.
Like Fairyfriend, I have been so admiring of your increasing strength and determination over the 3 years I have been reading your posts. You will get through this!
" He asked me if I was OK...I said I am fine and that I had to go. But the truth is I am not fine...I am hurting."
WHY??????
If there is one thing I have learned through all of this, it is essential to be brutally honest.
Ironically, a very dear friend called me today. His wife left him. We talked about his feelings. He apologized for crying and said he hopes he doesn't cry when he sees her to talk. His plan is to convince her to reconcile.
I advised he let her see him cry. She needs to know how much he loves her and how much he is hurting. I told him to listen with his heart as to why she left rather than try to convince her to reconcile.
How ironic I offer you the same advice. Your setting firm boundaries is something to be very proud of, your asking him to leave is not cause for celebration. It is causing pain to all you love.
Yet, you choose to lie about your feelings. WHY????
So that he should think you are strong and not hurting? What will that accomplish?
I told my friend it is his tears that will let his wife know he loves her.
If your H cried how would you feel? If he said he were fine how would you feel?
Truth is not weakness. Truth is healing for everyone. Tell him your truth.
And Carol, I am so proud of you. This was very hard, but it is about showing respect for yourself and your children. Your H has made many mistakes. You have given him many chances. Now you are choosing to take care of those who need you most. You and the kids arein need of a loving hug and all of us send you one.
I'm here to join the circle around you and show my support and care and love. Cal, I am so proud of you and your courageous spirit. You had courage in having to face the A and its trauma. You had courage to stay in the M and work your butt off towards R. You had courage asking H to leave the first time, and courage to take him back. Now, in these hours, your courage is brimming over in asking him to leave and in facing the questionable days ahead. I have every confidence in you that, no matter what the outcome, you will be good. You will be fine. You WILL heal. You will not only survive, but thrive.
You are an amazing woman - - so smart and so loving, and as much as it may seem unclear now, you are giving your family such a gift by teaching them all the importance of consequences and boundaries. I know your son is struggling with his own issues, but its so important for him to see the path his potential future holds if he follows his dad's lead.
(((((((((((((Cal))))))))))))) How I wish I could give you more than an email message of support. BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
First and foremost, take care of yourself and your children.
As I've read your posts, I kept hoping your H would change. However, I began to realize that he might not without some huge incident. Maybe this will initiate change; maybe it won't.
Either way, I want you to begin a happier life. Please do one thing, no matter how small, each day to make yourself a little happier.
El brings up a good point...why not tell him how I feel? At this point I have nothing to lose. Before he left the house last night he asked me if I was OK and I said no, and had tears in my eyes...he said he didnt want to leave me like this, but as much pain as I was in I needed him to go. So I thought if I tell him I am fine and not cry in front of him he would go this morning and not try to use it against me to stay. Right now I am not ready to talk about things. I truly need my space right now, and my IC suggested that I wait to talk to H...give myself some time to think aboiut what I want. Honestly, I think we both need this space and time.
I am doing a little better today than yesterday but I still think he doesnt understand the gravity of the situation. When he left last night he said "so you dont want me to come back tonight", I said "no, I dont want you to come back". Tonight he came to see the kids in their costumes and as he left again he asked "so you dont want me to come back", again I said "no". I think he feels if he just gives me my space that I will eventually come around and accept the pot and want to get back together. There is no chance we will reconcile as long as he is not in recovery. He has not hit rock bottom....this is just the begining...the first step towards the bottom. And even if he gets there, to the bottom, there are no guarantees that he will want to stop. I am being realistic and I am not going to set myself up for more heart ache. I have to protect myself...I have to take care of me!
Thank you all for your support, hugs, and kind words....you guys are the best
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
I see your point. I just guess that after listening to my friend today I am supersensitive. I told H, I wonder why his wife left him.... God I hate this feeling.
Anyway, I just wanted to protect you C. I want your H to know how much you love him, and that this is hurting. It was when my H really understood my pain that our true healing began I actually remember the night, the moment when he first " got it". I remember the look in his eyes so well. It was truly as if watching the life come back into him. However, it went out of me! I was so hurt, so in shock I didn't appreciate his tears or pain. I do know and I guess that is why I want so much for your H to feel what you feel. He can't however, unless you open up to him. I know for you that feels like you are being more vulnerable, but I truly believe for the betrayer to get it they have to get in touch with the depth of our pain. Protecting them from it only prolongs the fog and the delusions. How I remember on d day his saying
" Cindy didn't detract from our marraige". God, that became a classic! Cindy was OW #2 who lasted for 7 years... she was sex in the car once a week.
Geez... where was I all those years!!!! Busy being Mommy and working full time... oh well...
So I just want to make sure YOUR H understands how you feel, I want him to want to help you, not simply humor you.
You've gone through this before, you know you felt stronger each day. You are doing what is best for you and the little guys. One day your H will realize what real love is all about, hoepfully he can then try to earn his family back.
You are so sweet to want to protect me. I really appreciate all of your kind and wise words. I too want with all my heart for my WH to feel my pain...I mean to truly feel it...how I wish that were even possible. I too believe he needs to feel it. But how can he feel my pain when he masks and escapes his own pain with drugs? Yes, he was hurt that I asked him to leave, but he wasnt hurting for me...he was hurting for himself. I do not feel he is capable of feeling my pain as long as he is actively using.
But you are right...I need to let it out whether he feels it or not...and I will when I am ready. I will do it for me because it is what I need....and maybe ultimately what we both need. But for now...I need my space and I need the freedom of feeling my feelings without him here...without having to share them and inevitable invalidation. I need this so I can grow and be who I want and need to be for myself (and my children)...so I can heal and find peace inside of me. I hope that makes some sense.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
This message has been edited by SoCalGal on Oct 31, 2007 11:26 PM
Cal - Is it worth telling him when he asks if you want him to come back or stay, instead of just saying "no", saying "not until the pot is gone for good"?
Pot makes people delusional. Its the attraction of the drug that reality can seemingly be escaped. I don't know if your H is deluding himself that this time will be just exactly like last time, and eventually you will take him back, like before. And yes, he promised you he would go off the drug. But addicts promise the moon to themselves and to their loved ones - - they only actually stay true to the substance.
I think its probably GREAT that you are cocooning yourself right now. But I guess I'm wondering If....the really big IF....if he finally understood your boundary that the drug has GOT to be gone, that he has to go through a recovery program that is somehow verifiable, would you take him back if he could PROVE abstinence to you? If that's true, it would be good for him to hear from you the specificity of that boundary. So instead of saying "no, I don't want you back tonight", would it feel comfortable to you to say "no, I don't want you back tonight, or the next!, but if you can prove to me that you're done with pot forever...that it will never be a part of your or our life again...because you've entered rehab or ....(fill in the blank) and are doing the drug version of AA...then and only then is there a chance for this marriage. But the work has to be done BEFORE you can come home."? Is that something you'd be o.k. saying to him? God only knows if he could even hear it.
I'm holding a candle in the dark for you, Cal. ((((many, many hugs))) BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
mm yes, the message here seems to be one I hvae been given a few times ie communicate what you feel as best you can - I know how hard this is as I struggle and hold feelings when it might be more difficult and potentially even hurtful to share - sometimes being open is less hurtful in the end - Mind you some of the things I feel seem to be so variable ie coming and going - But what I am going to try to do is express my feelings and update wife as much as I can as I go along - less holding.. but I must be strong for this and I feel weak and sometimes would rather retreat
may you be safe and well dear Cal and all those around you
Just want you to know I'm thinking of you. I'm sorry it's come to this but at least you may find some resolution to the situation now. You sound like you are handling it with a strong attitude but don't be afraid to fall apart occassionally.
Thank you for your reply. The way you worded everything was perfect and very helpful, and I understand what you are saying. If I decide that is what I want I will express that to him. Right now, I am not sure what I want. So I am taking it one day at a time. Do I want him back at all, even if he enters rehab? Right now Im not feeling that so I am not saying it to him. I am just feeling the need to be alone and feel my feelings and get some sort of direction for myself...to find some peace inside of me. This time alone right now is not about him, what he is or is not willing to do for the marriage and himself...it's about me. What does Cal want? What is best for me and the kids?
By the time many addicts seek help, they have taken their spouse to hell and back, and it is often too late for the relationship to survivie. There is only so much a person can take, so many lies and betrayals before they are done.
Like you said, addicts plead and promise, but the only thing they are loyal to is the drug. I have not only witnessed this with my WH, but also with his brother. It took his brother years of rehab to even begin to actually be in recovery....where he was going because he wanted to stop, not becuase his mom made him go. He stopped because his wife was pregnant and he wanted to be there clean and sober for his child. It has been 5 years since he has done any drugs or even taken a sip of alcohol, and each day is a struggle, a conscious choice not to use today. You know the motto "one day at a time". He goes to meetings 2-3 times a month...at first it was 2-3 times a week. Do I really want to keep going through this for years to come? It has been 7 long years...5 of those years with him cheating on me. How much more can I take? Right now I cannot take anymore. And an addict has to want to stop. That is the bottom line. He doesnt even want to quit and was trying to rationalize and minimize his use before he left. So what hope is there, even he goes to rehab for me? He has to want to go for himself first. I saw no indication of that whatsoever. He did not express the desire or promise to stop this time and was basically asking me to accept it. I cant. And that's my bottom line.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
I am sorry i didn't see this earlier...been incredibly busy and haven't signed on HH at all.
How are you?
I am sad for you and proud of you...simultaneously. Sad that it came to this, but proud because you did what needs to be done for you and the family.
I'll try to post more later - just want you to know I'm thinking of you and praying for all of you.
Denise
"Our lives begin to end when we become silent about things"
I am so sorry that you are hurting so much. I have thought about you often and wondered how you have been doing-not realizing-thought it was but wasn't for sure.
You have so many people here who care about you and our hearts ache as much as yours and we want to make all the pain go away.
Remember you are doing the right thing. You can't go on like you are. It weighs too much after awhile. You are such a strong person who knows what she has to do.
Again, Cal, many, many hugs sent your way. Everything - - absolutely everything - - you said makes complete and total sense. As sad and difficult as all this is, you are seeing the whole picture so clearly and I remain really proud of you for loving yourself, loving your family and even loving your H enough to make this difficult decision. You deserve every ounce of peace that you can find or make for yourself. And that is my wish for you: peace. BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
Nothing I can add to the words of the many wise folk here on HH.
I was here when you first arrived and have had the privilege to watch you grow as I witnessed your metamorphosis into the very strong women others are rightly applauding today.
I know you are working hard on choosing a path which is right for you and for your children. As others here have said, whether or not the path includes your H remains to be seen. It is up to him whether or not he chooses to join you, and rightly, up to you as to whether or not you ultimately choose to let him join you.
May God grant you peace, courage, and steadfastness in your journey.
When I first came to this board, you were an amazing support - and even a 2 x 4 - for me. I had hoped you and your H could work things out.
Having said that, I am working (and have for a year) first hand with my older alcoholic brother, who continues to fail at being sober. He went through Medical Detox last December, only to fall back into the drinking pattern. He has lost his wife, kids, job, home, and any money he once had. One would think that's rock bottom, right?
But the truth I've learned is, we never can recognize another's "rock bottom." I hope your H truly LOVES you and will WANT to change his own behavior. You cannot do that for him; something I know we've all learned from our BS position. All you can do is enforce your own boundaries, and hope he sees the light. Time is a factor here.
Sorry you are hurting, Cal. I hope each day finds you more peace and ease. Go slowly.
Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ
(((Cal))),
I am sorry to hear that your hurting. I have been off in "la la" land and just read your post. I think you are doing the right thing and I know how much it must hurt. Maybe he will get it, maybe he won't. It is so fustrating, isn't it? As you well know, there is nothing that we can do to make them understand or change, unless they really, really want to.
You had a practice run before, and that is okay...it helped you get where you are now. Take each day one step at a time in <as Ami says> baby steps. No leaps and bounds woman.....you might pull a muscle 
