Hi HH Friends. It has been a long time since I posted, so I thought I would do that today. I am also feeling, as the message title states, very stuck.
H and I are approaching 2 year D-day mark, although will be one year in February since I found out the full truth, (That they had sex, lots of it, in my bed, and other sordid details). Since February, H has been on an intense spiritual and emotional journey. He has really been digging into his past, to get the answers to the "Why" this could have happened. I am proud of him, he is really facing hard things and bringing so much darkness into the light. He has a new relationship with God, and really, in many ways, he is healthier than he has even been in the 11 years we have been together.
Here is the problem. I still feel miserable!!! I still feel angry. I still feel mis-trustful. I still feel extremely hurt. I think someone gave the example here of feeling like the victim of a hit and run accident. Except, the person in the other car (H) didnt run...he stayed and just keeps getting healthier and healthier, and more joyful and free now that all of his darkness is exposed, while I just keep laying there bleeding all over the place.
I just do not know if I can get over this, and this absolutely breaks my heart for our daughter. I was a child of divorce and have much pain over that, and that was the ONE thing I WASNT going to do to my children. And yet, what is the alternative? To stay in a miserable marraige?
I am feeling so stuck, and so confused. so scared.
Hello Dear Hope - I consider you a friend and, like good friends I feel and understand your feelings. I have the same kind of feelings. As I have said in my recent posting I feel that the reason we continue to feel the piercing into our hearts and the bleeding is that we are the ones left holding the new reality too ie that we have somehow become attached to this person who has committed this crime. This is our burden and not the WSs. This is our problem that we brought to the situation. Like you I also was the child of a broken family with other complications too. I can see now how I have constructed a huge enormous place to live my life in which had "no affairs, no unfaithfulness etc" written in a big huge sign .. the problem I can see now is that this huge construction was obscuring my view of reality. My pain is in the deconstruction and dissolution of this enormous thing that I have grown up within and around me. Taking away this construction is like tearing away at the very fabric of myself and feels physical to me in pain (my "spike" to my heart). But, I realise I have done this to me and no-one else. And it is up to me to find a way of healing myself too. But, perhaps the most ugly potential view I now have is that this person I married is simply not the person I wanted to be there - Now I can see I do not feel that we communicate too well or that she can understand me all that well either. That is my grimmest nightmare. And the reason I feel "stuck" as you put it or "on the fence" as others put it or "unable to stop this spike sticking into my heart" as I have called it.. The Reason I am stuck may, just may, be that I still can't face the fact that I may not be able to be very happy with the person I now see I am married to. Now this would all be easy to solve perhaps.. well.. more easy, if it were not for the fact that this person has become another huge enormous part of my life and the lives of my children, friends and family. Not to mention my habits of being with her, our home etc. etc.. So.. to start again for me feels almost like committing suicide in that I would lose so much more of what little wholesome part of me remains. I feel so torn now that I feel really quite insubstantial.
Sorry if this is a long personal statement. I just wanted to share with a friend who has been so much like a tiger to shake me up in the past.
may you be safe and well, contented and happy - all of your family, one way or another
Dearest Hope,
I was so happy when I saw your name but so sorry that you are feeling discouraged. Of course, I related to so much of what you said.(I think I described feeling like the victim of a hit and run accident.)And, just like your H, mine has found a new life and is facing his demons with great success. While I am so happy with the changes I see in him, I resent that he is moving forward in a positive way and I often feel stuck in the dirt, just like you.
I will tell you some of the things I have learned, more positive ways of thinking but I am still very far from incorporating these thoughts into my reality. But, every now and then, I believe them:
- we are the heroines of this story. We are courageous and brave and are fighting for a M - for us and for our family. I have often written about feeling like a loser for staying in a M where I have been so humiliated. But, I am honoring a commitment and know what commitment means.
-Happiness can be a choice. There are many different ways of looking at a situation. We don't have to choose the bleakest and most painful. My H was lost but that is not a reflection of me or my worth.
-We are putting way too much of our sense of worth into our M and H's. They did terrible things but it doesn't define us.
And, my dear Hope, I still think you need more time until you will be able to feel that the trauma is in the past, not your present.
I wish I had some great advice for you, but I don't. I just wanted to let you know that I can totally relate to the feeling 'stuck' thing. Yesterday I reviewed some of my old posts from the fall of last year, and I'm experincing the same things yet today. Nothing has changed for my H and I, which worries me.
What do you do? If we only knew. If only we had that crystal ball so we could see the future and where it leads. There are times when it feels as though I have no control over what lies ahead for me. It seems that neither of my choices are too appealing. I can stay in an unhappy marriage, where I can see my children every day, provide for them the way I would like, and stay in my home. Or, I can leave, be without the man I love, see my boys 3 or 4 days a week (we have shared parenting in my state) and have the boys and I suffer financially. Either way, I will not be happy.
I guess for some of us it is a choice. To try to find a way to be happy in the situation we're given. A choice to open up, be patient, and love the person we're with the way they are. But that's a lot to ask somedays. Especially when you feel like you're running out of hope (no pun intended )
"Here is the problem. I still feel miserable!!! I still feel angry. I still feel mis-trustful. I still feel extremely hurt. I think someone gave the example here of feeling like the victim of a hit and run accident. Except, the person in the other car (H) didnt run...he stayed and just keeps getting healthier and healthier, and more joyful and free now that all of his darkness is exposed, while I just keep laying there bleeding all over the place."
Whether you stay with your H or you divorce there is a HUGE amount of growing, learning and healing that has to be done. That growing and learning has you stuck on the plain of lethal flatness and that is okay. Take a break, take a load off and take a look at how far you have come. Don't think of this as the road's end, but rather a resting spot.
Healing takes time. Lots of time. Some people can successfully heal themselves in a few years, others it may take 3,4 or maybe even 5 years. But if the journey is really about you then I would have to ask what you hope to achieve outside the marriage that you can't while in it?
This is my personal opinion, but if my marriage was on track and my H was doing everything and anything to make up for what he had done, then the problem becomes my problem to solve, not his. It would be a sign to me that there is some unresolved issue inside me that needs work. Do I choose to move onto another relationship that could potentially end the same way because of my unresolved issue, or do I roll up my sleeves, dig deep inside and start working one step at a time on that issue.
People have this perception that divorce is the easier way out. I can assure you that it isn't. Don't leave your marriage unless you can walk away rather than run. The feelings that haunt you don't go away just because you are divorced. You still need to deal with them.
Being single isn't easy. I've been on my own for 6 years now. It takes its toll and trust me when I say that good single men are few and far between. If you do meet a new person and start a relationship, based on stats, this has a high liklihood of happening to you again. The chance of a second marriage surviving are even lower than a first.
One of the big problems we all have after this type of thing happens is recognizing that it takes a long time (probably longer than 2 years) to be vulnerable again, to open ourselves to feel the love, to realize we trust and to accept what has happened and let it go. We want to rush through healing, and unfortunately it really does just take alot of time.
Kid, what you said really struck a chord with me. My H is doing everything he possibly can to show his remorse and be the H I want. He is an alcoholic, goes to AA meetings every week and has not had a drink in two years. He has looked deep within and is addressing all of his issues in therapy. We have been to MC. He has truly changed into a new person - from cruel, irresponsible, immmature to loving, considerate and empathetic.
It has been 2 years now and I still hold on to the pain like a safety net. I know that it takes time but what you said rang true - there is something inside me that is struggling to hold on to the pain. And, I fear that I am ruining what could be a great M by dredging up history beyond what is healthy for me. A lot of it is normal, I know, but I go beyond normal and I know that is true too.
I think it has a lot to do with trying to feel in control of the situation - I will destroy this before you abandon me, I will be the one to give me pain, not you.Focusing on my pain makes me feel like I matter somehow. I really need to examine my motives and to grow into a stronger, happier person.
You have given me a lot to think about - thanks.
It seems to me that your marriage isn't miserable, but rather you are. I had the chance to know your husband for a season, and to see the transformational work that was going on in his life. I saw how he was willing to do anything in order to reconcile with you, to make things right. It wasn't coincidental that he got healthier, more joyful, and free. He worked HARD to get that way. You seem to be saying or at least eluding that your only alternative to being miserable in the marriage is to get out of it. Well, how about if you choose to become joyful in it. How about if you become amazed at the very fact that you are even still married, after all you've been through. How about if you do the hard work, the necessary work, to also become healthier, joyful, and free? And, if for some reason you think you'd be happier outside the marriage than you are now, given all that has transpired, you would be sadly mistaken. If there's anything I've learned as a result of my adultery, it's that the grass is certainly no greener on the other side. If we cannot learn to be content in whatever the circumstance (Philippians 4:11-13), then we simply will never be content. If we cannot take hold of the freedom that has already been obtained for us (Galatians 6:1) then we will never be free.
This message has been edited by Dubld on Nov 20, 2007 1:30 PM
My husband and I were going through a bad spell in our marriage, we were really considering a divorce (my I add he wanted the divorce). In that time frame he had an affair. He realized a month 1/2 later he was wrong he wanted our marriage to work out and that he did love me. He is and has been doing everything he can to make this right. Now it is up to me. Dr. Phil once said marriage is not a method but an commitment, I am committed to our marriage. But at the same time I am so over whelmed w/ hurt and anger that it is hard to see and feel the love I want to feel for him. I love him, I know I do I have shared 12 years of my life with him, and have to little children that just adore him. The pain I feel is pulling be back from my happiness. All I can do know is pray, pray, pray that God will heal my heart and fill that void I feel. He will life me up and show he grace and mercy. I know that God dose not want my marriage to end, but the devil wants to break up families and marriages. I refuse to let him win. I am holding on to hope I can't see, hope I can't feel. That is having faith in God. God once said ask and it will be given unto you, but you have to believe in what you are asking. I have reading the bible out load so my ears can hear it. I read it over and over again. God can move mountains. Only he can get me through this and give me the marriage I want. I feel stuck too in the same way, but I can not give up, I have to not only think positive but speak it too. I just say yot myself God will not give me anything I can handle.
Pray (don't worry about anything, pray about everything!
I read your message, and I know where you are emotionally. Despite our best wishes, the emotional hurt and pain of infidelity and betrayal are real, and those injuries take real time to heal. Sure, there are cases where that healing can come quickly, even instantly. But just as in any physical injury or disease, the time it takes is often longer than we'd like.
To me, one step toward healing is to not put too much pressure on yourself for not feeling the way you think you should. However, at the same time, I'd encourage you to recognize that even with those feelings there is no need to act out in destructive ways. I'm not saying that you are, but if you're like me, then you've been tempted to do so. The feelings are just there, but you have control over the reactions to the feelings.
Do your best to continue using kind words when speaking to your husband. At the same time, do not feel inhibited to share the stuggles that you have with your feelings. You should be free to relate to him where those feelings originate, or new insights that you have as you learn how to cope with them. As you do so, if he is able to also value these conversations, then you and he will grow in unity as you battle the struggles of recovery.
If you feel resentful of his new found joy, express that feeling to him, but understand that your feelings might be based in something that you want to shed. Remember, through his joy, he can help you in your process of healing.
The state of your marriage right now is not the way it will always be. Be patient, it's not even been a full year since you learned the whole truth. Your bore the burden of his betrayal for much more than that time alone. It takes time, and I believe there is much hope for your situation, provided that both of you work together toward the restoration that is possible.
Very well put, Tom.
I, too, have tendencies to act out in destructive ways but need to keep my eye on the bigger goal - a healthy, happy recovery and M. My H is doing all he can, including not drinking for over 2 years now - a miracle for an alcoholic. He is kind, loving, patient and there. He has earned back my respect.
I can talk about my anger, my fears, my frustrations....but am careful to do it in constructive ways. I am focussing on talking about my feelings rather than the details of the As, my hatred of the OWs, my disgust with H's behavior. Been there, done that - over and over.
But, I am also almost 2 1/2 years past D Day and getting to this point has been a big struggle (and still is). What's new is recognizing how destructive I can be and taking control of my behavior. Up until about 2 years, it was impossible to let go of the obsession with all of the things that cause me pain. Now, the obsession is fading, though not gone entirely, and the M is growing.
Hope, I know that you and I have similar tendencies to inflict pain on ourselves, to obsess and to be resistant to positive thinking. I am finally, finally starting to change....slowly, slowly, slowly. Would be happy to talk to you some more about that if you want. Big breakthrough in IC last week and new meds are helping a lot.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and insights. The good news is that things are going much, much better. I am actually feeling happiness and waves of joy even lately, and it is freaking me out! lol It has been so long since I have felt that!
Susan, I would love to hear what your breakthrough in IC was! If you dont want to share it here, would you mind e-mailing me? Because, yes, as you said, we have similar patterns of thinking. Thanks, Hopearoo
Yes, happy to share. As background, I have tended to obsess over the pain, the betrayals, the hurts of the past. And yes, we have all experienced trauma and the intense pain is normal but I know that I carry it too far and for too long.IC and I have discussed these masochistic tendencies at length with many theories:
-it is comfortable, what I know, having grown up in a home filled with anxiety and where my opinions and choices were never valued. My father, a college professor, taught me how unimportant I was. He was controlling and never considered what I wanted.And, my mother, a teacher, taught me how to hide from issues and "make nice."
-it is how I experience love. Father and husband both treated me badly, though in very different ways. I felt like the love was predicated on my willingness to be treated like garbage.So, sick as it sounds, my value to those I loved was to be their whipping girl.
-it is the way "I matter" and "my pain matters." This theory resonated the most with me. If no one else cares about my suffering, I will do all the caring. And, I will do it long and hard. It is like screaming over and over how much I hurt, and finally, there is someone to listen-me. And,again, as sick as it sounds - that feels good.
OK - the shift. In last session, I was doing my usual lament. How COULD my Father have treated me so badly? How COULD my Mother have hidden from the problem and bribed me with clothes, jewelry and other treats? How COULD husband have stabbed me in the back?...the real triumverate of abandonment. IC said, "Today, the question you could be asking yourself is how COULD YOU be depriving yourself of happiness today ?" That got my attention. Suddenly, I felt that I was just another version of all the betrayers. And, I want to stop. I don't want to be the one, like my father, mother, H, who causes me pain. I am the one that can stop it and give myself what none of them did. And, yes, H is another man - a loving, kind and respectful one...but the real point is that I can be the anti-father, mother, cheater and give myself the gifts others deprived me of - peace, happiness, self esteem. In a way, the best antidote (revenge?)to all of my betrayers it to be happy.
Doesn't sound so breakthrough when I write it but it was for me. For the first time since D Day, I am starting to feel differently about myself and my place in the world. I am realizing that I have choices about who I want to be. And, when I start to revert to old patterns, I say, "How could you do to yourself what all the betrayers did to you?" That helps a lot.
I don't want to be defined by my pain but it is scarey to let go...if I am not the pain-sufferer, who am I? I can trust pain - it's always been there for me - but can I trust happiness? That has been more elusive.
And the rest of the world has no idea who I really am....people, even close friends, think I am happy, feisty, independent, strong, tough, a "take no prisoners" type....what a fraud. But, I am like that in many aspects of my life, but when it comes to relationships, when love is involved, I have been a disaster.
Can you relate to any of that? Am I crazy?
Sorry for the rambling.Would love to hear your thoughts.
This message has been edited by selfesteemseeker on Dec 5, 2007 9:00 PM
Yes, I can totally, absolutely relate with you Susan, as usual. I remember a friend saying to me in this past year when things were rough..."you have been abandoned enough in your life Hope...when are you going to stop abandoning yourself?" That one hit home!
I was at the bookstore the other day, I was reading a book by Brennan Manning, and a line in this book jumped out at me. It said, "there are usually two choices in life...the first is to radically accept the WHOLE of our lives...or to despair". That one hit home too.
I feel everyones pain and it so nice to hear incouraging words. I know I hafe to keep my eye on the bigger picture. I know I hafe to walk through rain first. It is hard not to try and think about how I can fix this. I feel like I give it to God and then I take it back. We are having a tug-a-war. But if you think about it with out the rain and storms we would not be able to see God mercy and His Grace. If we ask we will recieve, we just have to believe in what we are asking. I do know that it is hard to do that. It is hard to see hope when you have none, and to have faith when you feel so week. This is so very raw to me. I don't want to feel like this for 2yrs or 1 yr I want peace with this. I want a marriage with my husband like I never had before. I pray for that everyday. I think that we need to start praying for each other. Prayer is a very powerful thing. It says in the bible that God will heal are broken hearts and bind it together, just believe. That is all we have. The only one who can fix this is God. I am going to keep on telling myself that untill my heart believes it.
Dear Rebecca, Your faith is so strong. I admire that and know that God will see you through the heartache you are experiencing now. There are many people on the boards who, like you, have very strong personal beliefs and their faith has successfully helped them through this trial. I have every confidence that you will find a way out of this dark valley and God will be by your side during that time, no matter what the outcome.
For your marriage to recover and succeed, though, will take personal efforts from both you and your H. In the same way when there is sickness, a doctor and medicine are needed (as well as prayer), when a marriage has "illness", we often need therapists, medicine, and lots and lots and lots of recovery/rehabilitation work. It is a long journey and both husband and wife really have to want to do the work. Do you think your H is willing to put his heart and soul into working this out? Do you know in your heart what you need from your H to work through your pain? I guess on this matter I don't really agree with Dr. Phil - - marriage isn't just about committment. Especially during affair recovery there is A LOT my H and I have had to do and still need to do. The committment itself - just wanting the marriage to work - - isn't enough.
I know it is hard to be patient. One of the most frustrating parts of marriage recovery is how long the process takes. And just like everything else in life, there are no guarantees about how it will all work out the way we hope or want it to. I don't know if what I've said is helpful, but I wanted to let you know your message touched me and that I'm hoping the best for you. BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
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