He chose Melbourne and has decided he will not join us in Barbados and that tells me everything I need to know. When he called and told me (after his weeked in Melbourne) I said I would get the paperwork started. He said he wanted to come home to see how he feels and said he did not want me to start anything yet. WTF?
Yeah right! (said dripping with sarcasm)
See e-mail chain below, is it just me or does it just prove how deep in the fog he really is? I cannot see where anything in his Mom's statement constitutes explaining why he is screwed up, whereas everything in OW's does.
From:OW Sent:Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:59:41 PM To:H Subject:RE: Christmas
Hmmmm... I wont tell you what I really think. Will just say that she is clearly doing the best she can with something that doesnt make her feel comfortable, and at least she is being honest and true to her beliefs. Remember, she comes from a different place to you. It will be fine. Stay on track with who you are and let them be who they are.
From: H Sent: Wednesday, 5 December 2007 3:52 PM To: OW Subject: FW: Christmas
So maybe this is why I am screwed up. See last sentence.
From: H’s Mom Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:02 PM To: H Subject: Christmas
I don't know what I can do for you, but pray, and we are doing that. I do hope you come State side and figure out what you want and what is best for your Kids. We don't have to tell you we don't approve, but we do still love you. Mom
This message has been edited by CatTind on Dec 5, 2007 4:41 AM This message has been edited by CatTind on Dec 5, 2007 4:38 AM
Hi, I feel you are right in that it does not explain his own personal mess. WSs, and all of us, tend to blame others for being messed up. As a BS I myself have been the one who has done therapy and deep analysis to work out who I am and how I work .. but do WSs... not perhaps so easily. One trick I have learned to help me understand, see OP and WS in some kind of perspective is to try to see things from their point of view.. NOT EASY it is true but it helps. In this case OP must want WS and so is acting in an understanding and reassuring way. But even SHE must be wondering about his lack of self-responsibility. Being responsible for myself is somethign I have really learned about since my D-day and I am the BS! But, I see it as hugely important now - for me and my WS wife too. At first I was too shocked but gradually I have come back into myself and started to drive my own personal "ship" in life again - but this time without some of my own personal self delusions .. At least I can see better where I am going - And see how I work better inside. As for WSs.. Well... And OPs.. It seems to me that they have strong vested interests in burying their heads in the ground and not seeing anything much. After all, it takes a really strong person to admit what a stupid idiot they are.. And then make changes to how they steer their own ship in life after that. Not easy at all. In your case I would advise him to sort himself out with you and stop relationship with OP - And I reckon she should accept this too - After all SHE must be wondering about how reliable he is if he is not even able to take some responsibility for himself.
Rant over..
may you be safe and happy
PS: If you do not work out together THEN he can start back with this or .. who knows OPs
This message has been edited by JerryBond on Dec 5, 2007 5:37 AM
Unfortunately Jerry, the OW is the one encouraging him to leave his responsiblities behind and find a new life for himself. In a recent e-mail to me he said
In any case, I am just not sure I have it in me to go through the steps, but I am still thinking about it.
He gets deeper in fog every time he sees the OW. The pull to heris strong because he just spent a whole lot of time with her and she wants him to leave his family for her. She is ignorant and is in her own fog (just as your WH is). Seriously, as Jerry pointed out, what must SHE be thinking? How reliable is a man who cheats on his wife and does not truly consider the consequences it will have on his wife & children? Given the fact that she is not his first OW, what makes her think she will be the last? She is no more "special" than the others! He has a history...he has a pattern and that pattern has not changed nor will it until he does that deep down soul searching. He cannot do that when he is in the fog. The only way to start that long journey out of the fog is to cut all ties with the OW...and he has made it clear that isn't going to happen. Chris, he is never going to make up his mind if he doesnt have to. He said he wanted a divorce, told his parents and told your daughter, but then he tells you to wait. Wait for what? And why should you do ANYTHING to apease him when he cannot even stop seeing the OW? He can't even take the first step.
I know this hurts Chris, I really do and I am so sorry. But the best thing you can do is take care of YOU. Go on your trip and relax....all of this can wait until you get back. You are a strong woman and I know you will do what is right for you and the kids...your WH, well, he can fend for himself. You have thrown him a life preserver many, many times, and he chose to swim the other way. These are his choices, do not let him make you feel as if you are responsible for what he has done and the choices he has made throughout his life because you are not! He is a fool...a stupid, stupid fool!
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
>He said he wanted to come home to see how he feels and said he did not want me to start anything yet. WTF?
He seems to think he is the only party in this decision, or at least the only party entitled to reason able consideration. I think that decision on if you start the paper work (toward divorce?) is a decision that you make based on the factors you decide to include.
Emphasizing the importance of his feelings over his responsibilities are more than likely what got him to this point in the first place. I'm not sure I'd have any desire to accommodate those feelings at this point, if I were in your situation.
In the end, do what is best for you and your marriage. It's very possible that starting the paperwork now is the best choice you can make.
"Hmmmm... I wont tell you what I really think." (Why not? Because you see that Chris, in getting the paperwork started, might actually mess with your plan as an OW? That it would threaten H's heart and really not wanting a divorce, he would be more pressed to end things with you?)
"Will just say that she is clearly doing the best she can with something that doesnt make her feel comfortable, and at least she is being honest and true to her beliefs." (At least there's one person in this triad that has integrity and honesty and self-respect.)
"Remember, she comes from a different place to you." (What the hell does that mean?)
"It will be fine. Stay on track with who you are and let them be who they are." (Translation: Cover your eyes and don't look at the problem. Please don't think about this situation and just keep doing what you're doing because that's what works for me as your OW." Ewww: Can I barf now? BlueIris)
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
"I said I would get the paperwork started. He said he wanted to come home to see how he feels and said he did not want me to start anything yet."
Oh, Chris. He is walking in circles and bumping into himself, the fog is so damn thick. People who are not in the fog, know how they feel without having to be home. They know how they feel and remain true to those feelings, whether they are in the presence of their loved ones or not. Love, IMHO, is not like an ocean tide that recedes and ebbs and flows. It should be a constant, a foundational rock that can exist during times of physical separation and emotional crises. I'm not suggesting that H doesn't love you. I think he does. If he didn't, I think he'd have already gotten the paperwork going himself. He's got his own personal issues that have led him down this path before (and will continue to do so until he confronts them). In addition, he's spending time with an OW who has her own personal issues that should be addressed (though I'm so damned angry at her by proxy that I don't want to think about that) and she's manipulated your H and poured gobs and gobs of fog juice into the machine. She is as damaging as crack cocaine and is as addictive a substance. She just doesn't have the smarts to see she is just a substance. She isn't a human being to WH. If she winds up with him, she will get cheated on, too. But then, she may also play the field, as well. The whole thing makes me shudder.
((((((((((((((((((((Chris)))))))))))))))) I hate, absolutely hate and despise that you have to go through this. BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
Hey all, I do want you to know that I am doing well. I have pretty much been expecting this. He didn't say he wanted a D, just that he was leaning towards D and wanted to evaluate his feelings before he decided. What a crock of ............... I do think he was taken aback by how calmly I took his revelations though.
Blue, don't waste your anger, even by proxy, on either one of them, save it for something or someone less pathetic and more important. Don't barf either, it would only be a waste of a good meal. BTW, OW first comments where about H's mom, not me.
I still cannot comprehend how H could interpret his mom's e-mail as something that would or could contribute to screwing him up. I have tried looking at it from several perspectives and can only see it as disapproving of his actions, which was to be expected, but a genuine expression of love. Perhaps he can't understand why his parents cannot accept adultery as easily hers do? OW's mum lives in Melbourne and he was welcomed warmly into their home knowing full well about the A. (gleaned from a different e-mail where he thanked her mum for the hospitality despite his situation with references to several maybe's in the future. "After I figure myself out, maybe our paths will cross again. Thanks again.
I know [OW name deleted to protect the guilty], I used maybe twice in this email, but getting off the fence takes some time to avoid the splinters. " ) Totally whack! as my kids would way. Time to take a whack with a 2x4 and knock him off the fence for good. That should help him avoid the splinters!
I did talk with MIL and she is quite upset, understandably. What makes it worse for her is that (she revealed this to me) her father was a serial cheater and she could never understand why her mom put up with it. I did tell her that after the way H behaved in Sept towards both me and the kids, neither the kids nor I really wanted to put up with his attitude over the holidays, hence the trip. She did seem to be under the impression that H was strongly considering moving over there.
I told H before I left the land of Aus in August that waiting until he was about the leave before ending it with OW would be too late. Suffice to say I am one to hold firmly to my boundries. Two dysfunctional people do not have the power to ruin my life. I am moving onward and upward with a new found zest for life.
BTW, OW first comments where about H's mom, not me.