Hi friends. I haven't posted lately, so let me give you an update. All in all, things are SO much better from a year ago when I found out the FULL details of the A. Many of you remember that craziness...me holed up in a hotel room...etc etc...I wanted to thank all of you for being there for me during that time. Many of you phoned me at the hotel... so many of you sat with me in chat for hours..and I will forever remember your kindess.
So...things are better. I mean way better. And I have been feeling hopeful and good. However, I still feel so SAD! Does it ever really TRULY get better? Or is this just something we learn to live with?
I trust my husband now, which is remarkable. I do love him still...which makes it so sad to think i may feel this way forever. A weird feeling to totally love someone and yet still feel so sad and troubled by what that same person you love did.
I guess I am just looking for some encouragement here. Does it get better? IS the damage just too great to ever fully recover, and what does that mean for the rest of the marraige then?
I can't answer how long it takes, but I just wanted to say I know exactly how you feel. My D-day#3 was nearly six months ago, but even before that I was coming to the point of feeling comfortable in the marriage and yet so sad at what had happened. Since August last year, you could say all my dreams came true: H is truly remorseful, tells me every day that he will be faithful and loyal (and I believe he is), constantly e-mails and calls to reassure me. I trust him with my head, although my heart sometimes sinks at the thought of how he betrayed me three times, at how good he was at lying to me, and how easily he could do it again. When I saw the "love", friendship, understanding and support he gave OW, I just wanted that for myself. Now I have it all, but I still have a deep sadness that our marriage (of 30 years this September) has been so contaminated by his selfish stupidity. But so does he; he is so ashamed, embarrassed, unbelieving that he brought all this on us. We both know that this new relationship is different, more open, more interlinked, and I guess we just have to accept that the sadness is part of the relationship we are building and it comforts me that he feels it too.
Dear Hopearoo, I'm right there with you and Liz; feeling lucky and grateful that H is out of the fog, remorseful and very there for me and the M. But there is that lingering sadness (and I'd be less than truthful if I didn't admit to still being on the rollercoaster from time to time).
So, no answer to the question, but I'll stand in the circle with you guys interested in whatever answers come our way. Blueiris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
I can't speak for my H's feelings, only for his actions. His loving actions towards me say that he doesn't feel a lingering sadness to the degree you're describing, but again, I'm not a mind reader.
Last night, we were at a church talk. The speaker was very good, and was talking about masculinity and how it relates to the Bible and our religion, ect. Anyway, part of his talk focused on infidelity, and when it came up my H put his arm around the back of my chair and stroked my neck in a really affectionate way. I could tell he was non-verbally saying "it's ok, don't get down on yourself, ok?" It was so comforting of him.
We're coming up on the 6 year mark, so it's taken LOTS of time, but it did come. Knowing him, his hurt many times would quickly flow into anger, and if he was angry last night he wouldn't have been so loving towards me. It was completely out of the blue and not expected. He initiated it all on his own without any eye contact on my part or anything.
I hope this helps.
(And I'm glad I could be there for you early on, too.)
I don't think you have to forever feel sad. There comes a point where you can choose to allow yourself to feel happiness.
I'm a little curious about the sad feelings you're talking about. Do you mean feeling sad about your marriage, about life in general, about the affair? Where's it directed?
the sadness I guess comes from knowing how much work we have both done to work on the marraige and on ourselves individually...and that I still feel so distraught about the A. I guess sadness because if it always feels this way...I don't think I will be happy in the marraige. Does that make sense?
I guess I hoped that when the trust came back...the happiness might too. But I still feel sad.
For me the trust is not about whether wife will be unfaithful again - I am convinced she will not. No. For me the trust is whether there can be the kind of love I need, especially after all the evidence against. And the reluctance I feel now is about how much I like this person and not about whether I love her (which I do). Does this make sense? I just don't feel like being friends with her.
My dear,dear Hope,
First of all, it always makes me happy to see you post and as usual, relate to much of what you said.
I am ahead of you on this journey (DDay 3 will be in August) but seem to be following the same road. H is totally remorseful and has morphed into a new man of honor,integrity and compassion (the one I thought I married).
I find myself happier and happier but still have big dips. In fact, I seem to be having a bit of a relapse now...reliving the pain in disbelief that this happened to me, having revenge fantasies that I haven't had in a long time. Like many of us I thought, adultery was a thing that happened to other people -never me.
Maybe the relapse is because I am afraid to be happy because I fear it will be taken away from me like so much else in my ife....maybe it is because I have a hard time reconciling my love for my H today and the heart-shattering hatred I feel for the sh-t that cheated on me...maybe it is because I don't really feel loveable so am just waiting for H to realize that too...maybe it is because of my childish belief in fairness and my pointless desire for revenge. I need to be on guard because I have a tendency to self-defeating behavior and need to get out of my own way.I plan to discuss this in IC tomorrow because I know that these issues are mine to solve and the source of a lot of my sadness. It is way beyond the infidelity though the cheating was catalyst for bringing out old traumas.
But, it truly does get better and the sadness is less frequent as love, trust and my self esteem grow. My IC has told me that it is likely for me that there will always be scars and the effects of PTSD will probably never go away fully...but I will learn to cope better and recognize the good that has come out of this dreadful, sickening, horrendous, shocking, traumatic experience. Life is tough.
And I do recognize the good:
-Better marriage
-Better husband
-Stronger and healthier me as a result of finally looking inside to fix what has always been broken
-More mature view of the world
-Recognition of the complexity of life, relationships and individuals - so easy to be Black/White but also so immature and unrealistic. I want to know how H could have loved me and did what he did and there is no simple answer.
It seems that there is direct relationship between my personal growth and my happiness. I am slowly, slowly, slowly learning that the happiness needs to come from inside me and that when I get to that place called self esteem, H will lose the power to hurt me and cause me sadness. Change is so hard but with IC and a lot of self control, self examination and will, I am getting there.
I believe that you will, too. H is doing all the right things and most importantly, you love that man. I have often felt that old expression - "can't live with him and can't live without him" - but know that I have to land somewhere or I will go crazy. I have decided to live with him and need to let go of the pain...man, is it hard! So, don't worry about the sadness. It is normal and will lessen with time. You've got all the important bases for recovery and I am so, so proud of you.
My sister's H had an A in about 1999. Today they are a fully restored happy married couple and have been that way for quite awhile. Like someone else said, there comes a point where how you feel about it will be in your control. Until then, just flow with it a bit maybe.
I know the sadness you speak of, I think all BS’s do. It is the loss of life as we knew it. Never being able to go back to a relationship history where you are the only person in your spouses heart. The knowledge that your spouse could look you straight in the eye and lie. It is sad to see the person you love flaws and all. It is just sad to know you can be hurt so mortally. It is sad to have to work to fix something so devastating, that wasn‘t your fault, and that in your mind, could have soooo been avoided if only… To know you had your partners back, but they did not always have yours. Sad that you are labeled a BS at all, because that was never suppose to happen to you. The list goes on. Does it truly ever go away? Well, 6+ years and I am still aware of it, but it is extremely faded. It is just a memory of what can and does happen. I see it as the death of a loved one, there is sadness always in our heart for the loss, but we also remember the good. I remember the good in marriage through out it’s history up to today. Yes we learn to live with it, but that doesn’t mean that is a bad thing. It pops up less and less often as time goes by.
I know this sounds a bit dismal, but really it’s not. I don’t wish to give a false impression that everything will go back to how it was before infidelity, because it doesn’t. This does not mean things can’t be wonderful, happy, loving as a marriage should be. My marriage is these things. We as BS’s have to learn to accept the affair as part of our marriage history in order to heal. That means that we accept the sadness as well.
I am going to try one more time here, because I feel I am coming up short. I really wish El would post here, I know she knows what I am trying to say. In order to heal/accept I had to face the truth head on. My husband, the man I love and have been most vulnerable to, left me in his heart, giving himself intimately to another woman, without consulting me. He loved her, He enjoyed being with her, he laughed with her, and he went to her with his woes for comfort, all instead of me, and all while treating me like a stranger that didn’t matter. We can blame this on the fog, but I prefer not to and see it for what it is, his conscience choice. By doing this I left no demons to sneak up on me cause me to doubt.
I watched as he “Got it” and saw what he had done. Not a pleasant experience, and goes right up their with D-day for the BS and feeling like you are perpetually being socked in the stomach. I chose the 2nd chance not only for him, but for me. And I do not regret it. I take it all, the sadness, the happiness, the love, and the sorrow, so far it has been a very rewarding choice for me.
I have noticed that it always gets a bit better each year.
We have just passed year-one from our 3rd D-Day (7th) and our reconciliation date on the 19th of January. It was that day last year that we changed our entire life (retire and move 1200 miles away.) Our 35 year marriage was over and time to start another.
This year on the 19th, my husband surprised me (I still can't believe HE remembered!) with some beautiful jewelry (I got rid of ANYTHING he gave me over the previous 3 years - just wantonly throwing some away). He also surprised me with a trip to South Dakota and Mount Rushmore, someplace I'd ALWAYS wanted to go! He had already arranged a B&B for us - In 35 years he had never been the trip planner. We had a wonderful week in SD and Nebraska.
So now we're retired and spend 24/7 practically together. We get along so great - at least that never changed.
But I know of the sadness of which you speak. I am not surprised to see all of us here at HH feel your hurt, that gaping hole in your heart. I don't think it will ever completely heal - at least I don't expect it to..but I try not to dwell on it. What's the point? The A is over: my H did an awful disservice to our marriage, to me, and to himself. But WE have decided to perservere. We don't talk much about the A anymore, but we do talk about our PRESENT feelings. He's turned the corner. Not a week goes by, that he doesn't apologize and thank me for being me. For being strong. For accepting him back.
Every one of us at HH is different. We respond differently to pain - physical and emotional. Our paths all crossed in one awful moment in time, but beyond that none of us will react the same. I say: Have Patience. Be loving. Think positive thoughts. Think forward. Don't dwell on hurtful thoughts. Talk about your feelings. Listen to each other.
That's worked for us, but we're hardly the experienced on this panel. I hope your gaping hole steadily closes.
Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ
Thanks for elaborating. I agree with a lot of what has been written. The feeling of sadness about the lack of progress in your feelings is understandable, especially if you feel some 'pressure' (either internally driven, or externally driven) to feel something more. Don't pressure yourself and don't allow others to pressure you. I believe it's a grieving process that happens on a schedule that is based on the severity of the loss, the work that you do, and your own 'skill' at accepting losses. I did not have much skill in accepting major losses in life, so that made it more difficult for me. In addition, my wife wasn't doing her part for several years in the beginning, so that also caused delays in our recovery, not only by wasting time but also by deeping the loss.
I think one silver lining that you're not seeing right now might be the very fact that you WANT to feel better and FEEL more love is a sign of your love. We've all learned that love isn't just how we feel, but what we do, and what you are doing IS loving. In time your feelings will return as long as you allow them and you husband continues treating you with love and respect.
I know exactly what you mean about the sadness. For me it is mostly about my self- image which was totally shattered and then stepped on and crushed and then spat upon for good measure. I am 7 months past d-day 3 and we are doing well. My H is very open with me about his where abouts and his A. He is trying to be there for me to help me but sometimes his own depression prevents him from being able to deal with my pain and he withdraws and that makes me panic. I recently explained to him how his affair totally killed my self esteem and how the continuing lies and deception and d-days sunk me so low that I feel like I am standing in a hole so deep that there is only a small circle of light at the top. Since we had that talk he has been trying to be very supportive of me and trying to help me come out of the whole. I perodically slip and fall back down the whole and he is there for me to help pull me back out. I still don't trust him and don't know when or if I ever will but the work he has been doing for me and for us has been a great big help.
I hope that one day the sadness will go away but with my H here trying to make me smile and laugh the sadness atleast can't totally consume me anymore.
The advice that everyone has given you has been right on target. I really have nothing more to add, but was wondering if you have forgiven your H? I know it may be wayyyyyyyyy too soon for that. Sometimes to get past that saddness, and to let go of the pain (not to forget it), we need to forgive those who have harmed us(or to forgive ourselves). I think forgiveness comes when we are ready to let go of that pain that binds us and keeps us from moving forward...when the person who has harmed us has stopped the harmful behavior, has shown true remorse and has done everything possible to make ammends. I think forgiveness takes time, just as rebuidling the trust takes time.
Only you will know when you are ready to forgive. Some never get there, and that's OK too. There is a book "How Can I Forgive You" by Janis Abrams Springs...where she talks about different types of forgiveness and even about the freedom of not forgiving. We talk about forgiviness on the board from time to time, and just wanted to share the thought of forgiveness with you...I realise I may be way off the mark here, lol.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
This message has been edited by SoCalGal on Feb 3, 2008 9:28 AM
Sometimes I just wish people would give a straight answer here. Hope its 436 more days and you'll feel better, I swear. Ok, I just made that up, but like I said, I just wish someone had the answer.
Here is my resolution for 2008. I came up with this when my very wealthy, young friend died in a plane crash on the way to his private resort island. He was recently divorced and tragically his daughter died with him in the airplane.
So, I decided that I'm not going to worry about spilt milk that may never have time to spill. I thought, what if I spend the next week being depressed about IF my H MIGHT cheat on me again. And, then I get hit by a bus and die. I will have wasted the last week of my life worrying about something that didn't ever have time to happen! What if I do that for 3 years and it never happens and then I die or he dies. What a miserable way to waste the beautiful time that I have been given to live my life.
I am not perfect at it yet, like a diet, I make mistakes and wallow in misery but then I realize I am breaking my resolution to myself and its my choice to stick to it or wallow. And, I think what if today is my last day? Do I want to spend it wallowing or laughing and playing. Usually, given that choice, its obvious and I go play with my dogs to get back on track.
If he's still lying which I don't think he is, if he doesn't want to progress which I think he does but in my estimation isn't doing very well, and if he's going to cheat again there's not a whole lot I can do about that. But, what I can do, is chose to be happy, have fun, laugh, and enjoy my life each and every day.
Today my boss made me really angry and I was driving home mad, glad to be mad at someone other than my H. And, I realized I made a mistake. I just smiled. It's amazing what the simple act of smiling can do to counter negative feelings going on in my head.
I don't think there is a chance in heck I could do this 3 months ago, but you do get tired of the whole thing after awhile and need to change it up and try something new. So, I'm trying to get back into the habit of chosing to be happy.
I want to stick around to see what happens. Does he do it again? Do we have a better relationship? Did I learn so much from it that I'm a better person for it? Do I understand me more for all of this? I'm just so curious to see what will happen that I can't leave. Will I realize I should have left long ago or will I be thanking myself for staying and working it out?
I understand how you feel Hope. It should feel better by now. On Valentines Day it will be 2 yrs since that last and final d-day...#5. Crud.
I would have thought we'd be in a better place by now. We are in some ways and we aren't in others.
I agree with your thoughts...sometimes no matter how much you want it - it simply doesn't work. Today I'm in the frame of mind that it isn't going to last...but that may change tomorrow.
I'm glad you're posting again Hope...I only wish we had the answers.
Denise
"Our lives begin to end when we become silent about things"
Thats the thing...there are no right or wrong answers...it is what it is....it takes as long as it takes. Infidelity and choosing whether to stay together afterwards or not is such a personal choice for both the WS and the BS. No easy answers either way, and both paths are equally hard if you ask me. ((((((((((hugs))))))))). But no matter which path you choose I do believe at some point it gets better...dont know when that point is, but I believe it happens.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
This message has been edited by SoCalGal on Feb 5, 2008 8:52 PM
I was bad real bad. The first year I was constantly hysterical. My skin on my face was raw from constantly crying, and I do mean constantly, My hands shook, my head ached, I hurt so bad.
The second year I went to my doctor and asked for help, but really did not want to be on meds. She asked what happened...
I told her everything and the fact that we were in therapy. I thought there was no hope of me living another moment or if I did I would always be in this agony.
She suggested tylenol PM to sleep at night. She gave me a prescription for Xanax, and told me to break it into tiny pieces. It was for the lowest dosage, but to take as little as possible and only when needed.
It really helped. I got some sleep, and when needed help during the day. Meanwhile from day one my H was totally supportive and wonderful. I could not have asked for more from him. So I was really concerned about MY future. I thought this was to be my life forever.
In a nutshell, I was real bad.
It took me about 2 1/2 years to turn the corner. It was about that time that I started to come out of the terror. I started to feel life with or without him was possible. For me this was crucial. I no longer wanted to be the wife I was. I wanted to be able to CHOOSE whether to stay married not be grateful he was still here.
What helped me was about 3 years of therapy, reading everything about affair recovery and most of all my BELOVED friends from this board.
Dearpeggy.com Peggy Vaughn author of Monogamy Myth says she has never seen anyone recover in less than two years.
I seem to think it depends on how great a shock this was to your system. If you thought you had a great marraige it may take longer. Survival of the marraige and growth as a couple depends on the amount of work put into it by the couple. We worked damn hard. I always felt HE had problems, but they were not problems with the marraige. I was married 30 years. All our friends thought we had a perfect marraige, we were best friends, and totally in love. I always said if he had told me had killed the kids, I would have found that easier to believe than he had been unfaithful. It was a hard recovery.
My recovery came in stages. There were days I intellectually understood what happened, followed by days where I would emotionally understand it. Finally acceptance hit at about 3 years that this really did happen.
Today it is about 8 years later, and I am grateful to say that I have accepted this much as you would a life changing car accident. It happened, but you learn it is in the past, and how to deal with it. It is a scar but it is healed over. Someone once said like a beautiful vase that is glued together...
Healing does happen. It takes a lot of hard work . For me a very crucial understanding was there are three types of healing. Mine, his and maybe the marraige. I am truly happy to say all three have healed in my life. Something 8 years ago I never thought possible.
This board has been my life line and I am forever grateful.
Ami my friend, your post as ALWAYS was written from MY heart! I don't know that I added anything to what you wrote, but I am grateful that you reached out to me. You always write what I want to say, only you do it so much better! When I first read Hope's post, I wanted to answer but didn't know what to say. T said I hope Ami sees this and writes. Your words as always touch my soul.
Hopearoo, keep writing here till you no longer need to. then come back to extend a hand to others who follow in your footsteps.
It was the people who came before me that gave me hope. I have made friends here who I may never meet but will always love. Even if I don't write back as often as I would like to, know you are always in my heart.
It is so very wonderful to hear your voice! I have missed you so much. I hope everything in your life is going well. Thank you for your message to Hope. As it is with so many things on this board, the ripples in the pond and the lives you touch have more of an impact than you realize. Many many hugs to you. Blue
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
Yes, EL, good to see you here again with your wisdom and insight.
I particularly related to everything you wrote. I relate to being so bad that I felt sick with terror, fury and shame every minute of the day and night, not able to sleep,eat or imagine a day when I would feel better. The world was a very scarey place for me and I sobbed all the time, the pain coming from a deep, dark place full of profound sadness about the present and the past.
And,like you, IC helped and continues to help me tremendously - not every session is amazing but the cumulative effect has been a lifeline and view into what healthy looks like.
It is interesting that you said the 2 1/2 year mark was when things started to change for you. I am at that place now and I am feeling the same way. I am tired of thinking about it all the time, tired of watching H's every move, tired of torturing myself with those horrible movies, tired of the endless vengeance fantasies. I can't honestly say that I have given up those patterns of thinking but I am really ready to. And, there are big hunks of time when thoughts of the A don't hurt me - I see them as the pathetic behavior of two very sick people. Then, other times, the searing pain and rage surface. But, at least there are now two perspectives where there used to be only one.
For the first time, I believe that I can become the person I want to be and the person that most people think I am - confident, independent, OK with or without H, someone who will only accept a loving, respectful and honest relationship.
I am lucky that H has been totally remorseful and has given me most of what I need but the issue is now more me and my need to live fully and freely.
Thank you so much for your kind and loving words. It is posts like yours that make me grateful that I still come here. I hate the pain I have lived through but knowing that my words can help others means so much to me.
Blue Iris and Susan both of you have so much wisdom to share and write so beautifully it is wonderful to know that this board is in such loving hands. For many years it was my lifesaver. It is so comforting to know that you are here to welcome and guide new people as only someone with a broken heart can do. There is so much we have to learn about healing from infidelity. So much that those who have not been hurt can not imagine. The shock when it first happens to you is overwhelming, and you are so all alone and so afraid. Reading what you write always makes me feel safe, and my pain was so many years ago. It is with much love that I think of you both.
This may not be directly on point, but Peggy Vaughan's Question of the Week http://www.dearpeggy.com/question.html (week of March 2) deals with "How Do I Handle Setbacks?" and may offer some encouragement regarding feelings of lack of progress or backtracking.
For those not familiar with dearpeggy.com, the Question of the Week is replaced with a new one the following week, so this week's question should be read by March 8.
Take care and God bless.
Len
Current Topic - How long before it truly feels better?
