I almost feel petty posting my whinny issues when other on this board are going through so much more. But I need to vent and try to pull myself together.
I'm trying to et it into my head that he is just never going to get it, he doesn't really understand the extent of the damage he has done to me, not only by his affair but with the last 2 1/2 years of not really doing the things I need from him to help me heal. He has done some nice things that I call surface level, but no real soul searching as to how he could have done this, why he did it, taking a real look at his affair and OW to see the flaws.
Everytime I tell him I want out of the marriage, he attempts to step up to the plate, he gets close, even touches it with his toes ocassionally, then when I back off from telling him its over, he goes back the dugout, until I call him up to the plate again with discussions of divorce. We've been playing this game for so long now, I just can't take it anymore.
The latest bout of this game started 5 days before Valentine's Day. I told him I want a divorce, he then pleaded with me for 4 days, he loves me and wants to make it work, he knows he hasn't done what I need, but he wants to blah, blah, blah. The day before Valaentines day we were occupied with kid stuff so no talking. valentine's day I get roses and he makes me a card wit a poem about why he loves me (this has been an issue since d-day). The poem was sweet somewhat comical, not really romantic like I would have hoped for, but I accpeted it from him as his attempt to get us on the right track.
Valentine's day passes and that is the end of his trying. We went away to my sister's for some skiing that weekend. He took off on the slopes with my son who is a good skiier and really didn't even check up on me to see how I was doing (I'm a novice). He had to leave a few days earlier than the kids and I. On that day, he's ready to leave in the morning instead of spending the day with the kids and I. So I went off on him, about leaving early (like he has somewhere to be), about not checking up on me skiing (just selfishly going off with the child that skiis well and leaving the rest of us behind) and for not making any attempts to talk since valentine's day (no need to talk if I'm not threatening D).
The day I was coming home he tells me he has a surprise for me and I should call him at work when i get home so he can tell me where to find it. Of course I tried not to get my hopes up, but who wouldn't. My surprise was he made me a cake. i have a real sweet tooth, so don't get me wrong I liked the cake. But WTF, yet another surface level action. I was hoping for soemthing like a long heart felt letter or an appt for IC for himself or MC for us. Am I being ungrateful? As to not seem ungrateful, I did not say anything and told him I appreciated the cake, because he says I never appreciate anything he does. Of course there was no how much I missed you, I'm so happy your home. This was Thursday.
Friday I realize our car insurance was cancelled two days before because he didn't pay the bill. I call and get it reinstated. Meanwhile I had taken a 3 hours car trip with my kids and NO CAR INS! His reaction, "Good thing you got it reinstated". No real acceptance of blame for it being cancelled in teh first place.
Saturday, I tell him I can't go on like this. I feel that just like he doesn't take blame for the car ins being cancelled other than to say "I F'd up", I feel he does really see that his affair was that big of a deal. His response after 2 1/2 years...."Your right to some extent I don't think it's a big deal" (meaning the ins & the affair?????). I flipped and said some really nasty nasty things. told him he need to look for an apartment and get out. He said if that is what I want he will leave. I told him I didn't want him sleeping in our bedroom anymore.
Sunday am, I wrote him a letter apologizing for the nasty things I said. Stated that him moving out is not what I want, I want a healed marriage but that it is what I could live with. Also said I am still confused about his affair and dont understand why he doesn't want to look into himself and figrure out the why and how and that it is only going to carry into his next relationship.
Early Sun afternoon He thanks me for the letter and says he started writing a response back to me. We had to take care of somethings with the kids so I did not expect him to finish until later. About an hour after the kids went to bed, I was in my room reading, he comes and says again he appreciated my giving him the letter and keeping communication open and that he is giong to give me a letter tomorrow (today). I tell him I am disappointed that he didn't have anything to give me tonight, I thought he had been working on it since the kids went to bed. He says no I was watching TV. I flip and tell him how this just goes to show how unimportant my needs are to him. He says my needs are important to him but he needed to de-stress. I have been under so much f-ing stress for 2 1/2 years!!! I gave him a list of divorce mediators and told him to pick one and I would call and make an appointment.
This morning we didn't speak. When leaving for work he told me he does love me and want s to work it out, but that I need to realize the last 2 1/2 years have taken their toll on him too. I tell him that this is all because of his actions and he agrees. His actions started all of this, his inactions have continued it. i have tried for 2 1/2 years to make this marriage work, but now I'm supposed to give it more time, because my bitchyness towards him, because of his affair and lack of real recommitment from him, have pushed him away! WTF.
I really needed to get this out. I am at a point I don't talk to anyone about it anymore. I can't even talk to my sister, who has been my rock, my lifeline through all of this, because she hates him. She wont say it to me or him, she has always been close with him, but the last few times I talked to her, I could hear it in her voice. So I don't tell her anything anymore. There I go again protecting him from his actions. How stupid am I.
My IC once told me that a WS will not do what we need them to do until they must. My H did not admit the whole truth to me until he believed that I would divorce him because of his continued lying. I think they have to hit bottom before they can start the upward climb.
It sounds like your H hasn't hit bottom yet because he has been able to coast along for 2 1/2 years. No matter how angry you become, you still permit him to be a part of your life.
IMFO, you may want to consider what personal boundaries you have put into place and what the consequences will be if he violates your boundaries. Remember that you can not put boundaries in place for him, but you can tell him what YOUR boundaries are and what the consequences of crossing those will be.
I am so sorry that you and your kids are hurting and that he refuses to do the work you need him to do. Of course you are angry and hurt. The message he has been sending you is that he really doesn't regret the A and having his A was more important (and continues to be) to him than you and your marriage were and are. Until he sees and accepts the devastation his bad choices caused, not only to you and your children and marriage, but to him personally, too, he will not make the changes you need because you see that he needs to make those changes because HE wants to change for himself. HE wants to be a better man, for himself, not just to placate you, and that is how you have been feeling--placated.
Put up those boundaries and enforce them, and I'll bet you will see a real change in him if he is truly serious about wanting to stay married to you.
FF makes a good point - about having boundaries and sticking with them. It sounds, Lisa, like you've used the threat of divorce a lot. Maybe too much. Enough that he has temporary gestures of placating, as FF, said, but nothing of lasting substance on his part has happened and your threat hasn't had substance by you following through.
It sounds like the two of you really could benefit hugely at this point from IC and MC. Could that be the bridge or boundary that you require? I hear your frustration and that you're at the end of your rope, so instead of saying, "call the divorce mediator" could you say "you have a choice: set up the MC/IC, or I'm calling the divorce mediator". You'd have to be willing to see your threat through and I'm not sure if you're all the way there yet. But something needs to change to get the two of you out of this circular pattern of complacency - threat - gesture - repeat. You're both dancing that dance. Someone needs to change the music.
I know its hard, Lisa. I definitely don't mean to be critical about it or hard on you. I can hear you've given him the gift of patience through all of this and have taken the leap of faith that he'd use that time wisely. But WS's oftentimes need help getting to a place of wisdom again after straying so far off that path. It sucks that we as victims often end up in the role of having to lead the recovery effort, but it seems to be the case more often than not. Hang in there, girl. BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
I really appreciate your reading my very long post.
FF you are right he has been coasting. He has been getting away with surface level gestures and not really looking into himself and his actions. I do appreciate the gestures he has made, but they are not going to get me past the betrayal of an affair.
Our former MC, my IC said the same thing about hitting rock bottom. Only she added that she's not even sure if rock bottom will evoke changes in H. Not very encouraging.
Boundaries would be great, but at this point I don't know what they should even be or what consequences should be for crossing those boundaries. Two weeks ago I wouldn't let him come to a family party for my cousin and I think that made him stand up and take notice, but right before I had to leave my youngest through temper tantrum (something else I an contending with)and I left him home with H. So I felt as though it was not really upholding a boundary with H, but upholding a boundary with my son. This weekend I have my nieces 1st birthday, H has never missed and event for any of my nieces so it will be a big deal when I tell him he cannot come.
Blue, we have been down the road of IC and MC. I am still in IC with our old MC. MC & I agreed that MC was going nowhere after about a year. MC ended about 9 months ago. H would come to MC and participate, but once we were out the door he would forget about it until the next session. About two months ago after a bout of "the game", he reluctantly said "If you want me to go to MC I will go". I discussed it with MC and she and I came to the same conclusion, MC is not going to work the 2nd time around because he doesn't want to go, he'll go to placate me. H was also in IC with a different counselor, who I believe had no affair experience at all. He saw her for over a year and made no strides at all. You know what he found out about himself? He doesn't like that I am over weight and a bad housekeeper. Wow what insight. He stopped seeing her because we lost our insurance. We've had insurance now for over two months and he has not mentioned once about getting back into IC.
He doesn't want to look at himself and do the hard work and I'm so tired.
Your right about the threat of D. I threaten D, he says no no no, I want to work on our marriage, I love, and then I cave. I give it another chance and a month or so later I'm fed up again. We've been stuck in his cycle for a very long time.
I know you are so very frustrated, and who in your circumstances wouldn't be? Might I suggest that you take up the topic of boundaries at your next IC session. I suspect that your IC can help you decide what your boundaries need to be, what the consequences of crossing your boundaries will be, how to discuss them with your H, and how to implement the consequences if/when you need to.
Isn't it interesting how a WS who isn't serious about going to IC to learn about self will find some real or imagined grievance about the BS? Harrumph!
Anyway, I am sorry you are hurting. Don't cave in because you are NOT wrong; he is!
Lisa...I really do not have much energy at the moment but I did want you to know I sympathize with you, and Im thinking of you. Im so sorry you are going through all of this. You and your kids deserve better. No advice...just sending ((((((((hugs))))))))) and prayers your way.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
It's so challenging in A-recovery to not relate everything, every behaivor and misstep and miscommunication and arguement, back to the A. All of the other points you made in your post seem to really be linked and show a pattern in your H, but I wanted to pull something out and address it seperately from the A-behaivor, if I may.
You said
<<My surprise was he made me a cake. i have a real sweet tooth, so don't get me wrong I liked the cake. But WTF, yet another surface level action. I was hoping for soemthing like a long heart felt letter or an appt for IC for himself or MC for us. Am I being ungrateful? As to not seem ungrateful, I did not say anything and told him I appreciated the cake, because he says I never appreciate anything he does. Of course there was no how much I missed you, I'm so happy your home. >>
This jumped out at me because I thought for the longest time before DDay that my H didn't love me. I thought this because we have two VERY different love languages. Have you ever read the book Five Love Languages? It's a great tool in learning about how your S ticks. It sounds like your H is similar to mine in one way, in that he's a doer. He does things to show love, it's through actions but not so much words. I don't know if most men are like this, but mine has learned through the last few years that I need to have affection and words occasionally too, not just action.
So he probably thought "what does my W like?" and the sweettooth came to mind, and he thought "well I could go buy her a box of chocolates or a cake, but it would mean a lot more if I put in the effort to make her one." I could be surmising a lot incorrectly since I've never even met your H, but speaking from my own experiences, I've had to learn to tell my H what I want from him in reference to how we express our love. I've also had to learn how to show it differently so he also feels loved. What I'd naturally think he'd appreciate may not be the best way to show him.
This is such a tough topic when you're not feeling very loving right now, and have so much extra crap on your plate to address at the moment....but I wonder if this particular thing made him think "well, even when I try really hard to show her how much I love her it's not the right thing, so why bother trying so hard. I'll just get it wrong anyway." And maybe that's why he didn't write the letter? My H is not comfortable writing at all, and it took going through Retrouvaille for him to see the importance of it. Before that, there was no way he was writing me any letter. I found it an effective way to get my feelings across, so I used it frequently and was so disappointed when he wouldn't write back. It was a big obstacle to climb over as a couple.
Your sister doesn't really hate your H but is trying to protect you..she hates what she see you going thru...and also feeling your frustration, be sure to tell her when your H does something good..
My H has only begun in the last 4 yrs to write something in a card...we are 5 1/2 yrs past D-day..it took me a long time to get H to understand that I needed romance and attention..I always felt that he didn't know how to " romance " the cards, flowers, sweet words, etc...but when he did that with the OW...then he could do it for me too, ( he never romanced me when we were dating)...he was taking me fore-granted .. I had to tell him what I needed and it was a learning experience in communication for both of us.
((((hugs)))
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
In our last session together with our mutual C, she told us to set up a bowl and put requests for each other in it. We are to write down actions we would like the other one to take to show love for each other. It is a variation on the idea of love languages--it is just more specific.
The way I see it, is this is your boundary issue, not his. I went hunting down an old boundary post that might be helpful. It will follow. But also, as others have mentioned, you are in a cycle with your H. You expect him to break, but are not willing yourself too. It takes too, you have the same power he does.
Ah the boundary Issue, Around and Around we go. The lies are truly the worst. This is a boundary I find I need to reestablish from time to time with Mr. Ami. My H has grown up in a family that justifies their actions by the actions of others. Or that justifies their actions by how hard of a day they have had or when things go wrong. Somehow in the make up of this family, personal responsibility can be chucked and lies become a reasonable course to protectones behind. They can also make themselves feel better by the very real belief they are protecting someone else too. But the reality is their motivation is first and foremost to self.
I and my H acknowledge that these personality traits are who my H is. To not be aware of them or think they have fled because of the A would be a recipe for ruin. We do however get lax, which will most undoubtedly result in a set back. We discuss it, come to terms with what happened and set up the boundaries once again.
Boundaries are tricky things. The hardest thing for me to comprehend about them was that only I could set my own boundaries and only he can set his. Where we get into so much trouble is when we try to impose our boundaries on someone else. It just doesn’t work that way. The 2nd hardest part about boundaries is enforcing them. If the 1st part is applied and the boundary is yours, then, when the 2nd part is applied that means the consequence is yours also. Enforcing boundaries is painful, that is why I always feel we have to work our way up to tougher and tougher consequences for a particular boundary.
In the beginning we have to start out slow, when enforcing our boundaries. The first consequence of a boundary being broken can be to discuss it with your spouse. Often this is all that needs to be done. When you discuss anything with your spouse it should always be from an I perspective, never accuse or say you. Stick with yourself. Unfortunately this can be a boundary your partner has not set for themselves, so you find yourself again and again in a need to enforce the boundary for yourself. Your enforcing should get tougher for you, and by enforcing the boundary you feel better about you in the end, even though it may have been very painful to do.
"The day I was coming home he tells me he has a surprise for me and I should call him at work when i get home so he can tell me where to find it. Of course I tried not to get my hopes up, but who wouldn't. My surprise was he made me a cake. i have a real sweet tooth, so don't get me wrong I liked the cake. But WTF, yet another surface level action. I was hoping for soemthing like a long heart felt letter or an appt for IC for himself or MC for us. Am I being ungrateful? As to not seem ungrateful, I did not say anything and told him I appreciated the cake, because he says I never appreciate anything he does. Of course there was no how much I missed you, I'm so happy your home. This was Thursday."
Here's what I see: A man who has trouble expressing himself; who pretty much feels like a bumbling failure when viewing himself through his wife's eyes, made some real initiative to do something to express himself to you. And, because it did not fit your expectactions, you pretty much validated his feelings of being incompetent and incapable of doing anything right.
I don't know the answer for this, but I do think that your unmet expectations are really hindering your ability to see that he is at least trying, in his own way.
I agree that if you two would really work together to discover your love languages, that could really help eliminate a lot of the unmet expectations.
Ah, yes....The Five Love Languages, by Gary Chapman. I really wish I would of read that book before the A. I began on chapter 12...Loving the Unlovely.
I understand what you mean about your H inconsistently stepping up to the plate. Mine does that too. I just want to tell you "I hear ya!"
In our most breakthrough MC session, MC asked us to list the ways we showed our spouse how we loved them.
I listed off an armload of things that, at the time, were wearing me out - but trying to be the good wife, jump higher, run faster, swim harder - I was determined to do to demonstrate my love.
When I finished, H looked at me like I was nuts. He hadn't seen a single one of those as a sign of love.
(I have to say I was not esp taken by his list either, but he had just had an A - which is the all time crappy way to show someone you love them so I might not have been listening)
One of justifications he had for his A is that he didn't feel loved and so in response, I kept doing what I thought showed him I loved him, but I did it more. In a sense, I kept missing the target - harder and more often.
There's quite a lot to be said for learning what your spouse thinks is showing love. It certainly helped us.
I really appreciate everyone's response. It it so heart warming to know others care.
H & I are definately going around in circles and have been for a long time. Many times I have told him what I need to feel special and that I need him to look inside himself to see what is missing. I know I am the one letting us go around in circles, because I just keep hoping that he opens his eyes and sees the additional damage he is causing by his inaction. But the truth is that after 2 1/2 years this will probably not happen.
We do have a different love language. I try to see what he is doing for me and I do appreciate what he does. But what about what I need? I have told him many many times the things I need, and I'm at a point that I feel it is just not important enough to him to do these things. He'll sometimes start off on the right track and then he just doesn't follow through. As an example, I have asked him so many times to read some of the affair recovery books that I have. He says he will and then doesn't. He has started 2 books, read a few chapters and then didn't finish them. A few times I have printed out short articles I wanted him to read and he hasn't. Reading might not be his thing, but he is fully capable of reading, so by him not reading, it says to me "its not worth it to me to do this for you". IMO if it is important to the BS and the WS is capable of doing it, then WS should do it, if not only to gain insight, but to please the BS.
Understadning each other's language of love is important, for two reasons. You need to appreciate what the other person is doing as their sign of love for you, and you need to know what the other person needs as a sign of love from you.
My H never said he felt unloved, so I must be doing things that make him feel loved. I am trying to see the things that he does for me as his way of expressing his love, but shouldn't he be doing the things for me that I consider loving. It feels very one sided to accept that he only needs to do the things he thinks show his love and not looking at how I recieve these gestures or what I need in addition to the things he is comfortable doing.
Pat, like you I accpeted H the way his was before the A. But then after finding out that he was very expressive to OW about his feelings, it really hurts that he cannot/will not be that way with me.
Sun, we also went to Retrouvaille and thought the weekend was great. But it didn't stick with H long term. He didn't learn the lesson of open communication.
At this point I'm just so sick of putting myself out there and get the minimal back from him. I'm tired and worn.
Lisa
This message has been edited by Lee66 on Feb 27, 2008 10:50 AM This message has been edited by Lee66 on Feb 27, 2008 10:48 AM
My WH said similar things to me. He never said that I didnt make him feel loved. I also told my WH what I needed and he didnt do it. You cannot get much plainer than actually telling your spouse what you need, and nothing can hurt more than to realise they're just not going to do it. Are they capable of doing what has been asked of them? More than likely...if he could open up with OW then he should be able to open up with you. He chooses not to. You have to ask yourself (and him) why? I went the route of trying to make WH feel "safe". I worded things very carefully and tiptoed and walked on eggshells. That didnt work either. In fact nothing worked. You know why? Cause it wasnt about ME or how I approched him or what I was saying or what I did! It was about him. Until he looks into that deep dark place it doesnt matter what language you speak...he hears you...he just isnt doing anything about it cause he is afraid. Drug addicts rarely want to look down deep which is why they use drugs in the first place. You cannot force him to take that deep dark look inside of himself because as long as the two of you do this dance and are caught up in this cycle, he doesnt have to...what is his motivation? The thing is you cannot threaten someone with an ultimatium and then not follow through. You are teaching them that you will not do what you ay therefore it is an empty threat. That is why Ami was talking about boundaries. If his doing drugs is a boundary issue, and he spends all the money, and your insurance is cancelled and you get into an accident...well the two of you would end up having to pay out of pocket or risk being sued and end up riding the bus. You saved him from the consequences as you always do...just as I have always done. You have to stop taking it upon yourself to save him from himself and the consequences of his actions or inaction. Only he can save himself....you must let him fall...he must hit rock bottom. I know this is not easy to do but if you dont the cycle will continue. You cannot change him but you can change YOU and how you react to him. That is what breaks the cycle.
((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
Wow. I can almost feel how nauseous you are from the ride on the never ending circle of behavior here. You sound frustrated and tired and worn. (((((Lisa))))) I don't know if this idea would help, but I'm going to throw it out there.
Around the beginning of the year, H and I started something new. He and I were doing ok, generally speaking, but I still felt like we were missing the boat with each other, because he felt like he was doing loving things and I kept looking for love and romance (especially in light of what I knew he had done with and for OW) and I wasn't seeing it - or I was really blinded by my knowledge of the A. So, there was this kind of wall we had hit and I really wanted to find a way to plow through the wall towards the next level.
On a love and romance site, there was an idea for "Love Tip Jars". Here's how it works: Each spouse has a tip jar. When I do something loving for H and its loving from his perspective, I get a "tip" in my jar (the suggestion was having the tip be be a quarter, a piece of candy...for us, its just a slip of paper that says "you did _____________, and I felt loved because of it.) The same thing happens with H's jar. If I see that he's done something that makes me feel loved, I pop a note in his jar that says what he did and how it made me feel. At the end of a month's time, we each count up our "tips". Whoever has the most tips, "wins" and the other spouse is responsible for setting up a date for us.
Ok, on the surface this sounds like some lovey-dovey whatever kind of game - the type of thing newlyweds might do to be silly and starry-eyed. But the thing that's been really nice about this and is helping us heal and push towards that next level, is each day, both of us have the focus of looking for (a) what we can do to be loving towards the other and (b) we're also looking at the efforts the other is making. There's tangible feedback when something works and noticeable absence if we did something that wasn't in a working love language for the other. So, for example, my H thought it was really romantic if he got the coffee maker ready for me for the next morning's brew. Its sweet, but I don't find it "romantic". This system has helped us both see what means something to the other and what doesn't. That means we're honing in on how to show each other and communicate love to each other. In the end, we both win, because we both end up getting a date with each other (which leads us to creating good new memories and communicating) and because we stay focussed on the love we're giving and receiving. We keep the jars in our bathroom, so they are in plain view and we have multiple times during the day that we walk past them and are reminded of our goal.
No books. It feels more like a game than "affair recovery work". There's a tangible reward in the end and an intangible critical benefit from what we're learning along the way.
I don't know how receptive your H would be to this. You two are in a different space than my H and I were when we started this system. But it does sound like your H loves you, wants to be with you and wants the marriage to survive and get better. If there's a way to present this idea where you both could be excited about it, it might be a way of taking a step or two forward. If its not working after a couple of months, then you can stop using the jars. Maybe along the way, you both learn something. Mull it over, Lisa. You've sounded really defeated in so many of your recent posts, but I also hear you crying out for something....anything. Maybe this could help a little? BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
This message has been edited by BlueIris22 on Feb 27, 2008 11:49 AM
Sorry to threadjack, but my H and I also get the coffeemaker ready for each other....he gets up and out the door before I do, and he's told me that if I'll get it ready for him the night before, he'll get another pot started for me before he leaves as a thank-you. So I still wake up to coffee ready the next morning, even though he's filled his thermos for work that day. Funny, we didn't have to talk about this one as to whether or not it was "romantic". It was romantic to me because my H shows love through actions, and he's so focused in the morning with his routine to get him out the door that taking any moment to do something for me is considered romantic on my part since it takes thinking of me instead of him....something that he doesn't do when he's focused on the goal (in this case of getting out the door).
Sorry if that was a t/j and the longest run-on paragraph in history. lol
Well, there you go; actions speak differently to different people. I'm glad, Sun, that the two of you are able to speak love through caffeine
I do recognize that H is being very thoughtful when he gets the coffeemaker ready and its nice that he's doing something that he knows I like and appreciate. Sadly, I'm still early enough in the process that I get....distracted, let's call it...by the details of the A. So, the coffeemaker's great, but I have visions of H bathing OW and taking her dancing. The coffeemaker pales a bit in comparison to that, so maybe timing of recovery is also an element. The scars of what H did are still pretty open and raw for me, so romance for me currently has to be something that makes me catch my breath a bit more.
The most important part of this is that H and I both needed to be aware of what we're struggling against and how we can still reach out towards each other, understanding each other along the way. Blue
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
That makes total sense to me, Blue. Being at almost-6 years past DDay we've had enough healing to take comfort in the mundane things. It took time, naturally.
I really did have to work on seeing H for the man he is, and not trying to change him. One of the OM wrote me really long emails that were so romantic, and while I knew they were just a ploy to get sex, I also enjoyed the attention. Can you believe I had the gall to ask my H to write me long emails, when he was at his remote job?? Not only is he not the email type by nature, but it was also a massive trigger. I took the communication thing WAY too far, needless to say. Incredibly insensitive of me.
Now, I try to change the way I show love to my H. If I were him, I'd love a little note in my lunch that says "I love you, have a good day", but I learned that while he likes that, he LOVES it when the floors are vaccumed when he gets home. He likes actions, not words. So instead of showing him love how I would if I were married to myself, I show him love how I know he'll understand it.
I think so many times women want to change their H's, and I try to keep that in mind when I find myself griping about what he doesn't do that I would find romantic. It's just not his nature, and yet he's one of the kindest men I've ever met. He'd walk through fire for me, but isn't the type to ever get me an "I love you card" unless it's Valentine's Day and I specifically ask him if we can exchange cards and go out to dinner to celebrate. Is it romantic to tell him straight-out what I'd like? Maybe not, but if I don't, there's no telling what he'll get me. lol One year it was a little waterfall statue that had a cute little girl on it. Waterfalls make my ears ring and it's packed away in a box now, but I kept it out and tolerated the ringing for several months before I "rearranged" and it disappeared. haha But I knew his intentions were good, and he had to walk through the store for a LONGGG time to find that for me, so it was a sign of love.
Blue - The tip jar sounds like a fun idea. Unfortunately H & I are just not at that place. I had suggested something similar to what FF had posted earlier, more like a suggestion jar. Hs reaction was "sounds good, now why don't you take care of all the work that goes with that". No initiative on his part. So I didn't bother with it, because I am sick of initiating everything.
Sun, I agree the coffee pot thing is a nice gesture. You do for me and I do for you. I used to set up the coffee pot for H, I drink tea and ocassionally he used to make my tea. But he would forget/ be running late...insert excuse here..... and not do it almost as much as he would do it. So no more coffee.
Cal,"You cannot get much plainer than actually telling your spouse what you need, and nothing can hurt more than to realise they're just not going to do it." You are so right, this cuts like a knife. I have told him dozens of times what I need and I don't not get most of what I have asked for. A simple thing like setting up a date night, call willing frineds/family to babysit, look at movie listing, say "Lisa I'm taking you to the movies". Not too complicated. I'm not even looking for a dining/dancing/theater experience (altough I love the theater and H will go if I make the plans). But apparently this is too much work for H.
The insurance cancellation has nothing to do with him spending hte money on drugs, I'll give him that. He's rarely smoking pot at all, but isn't in recovery, not looking at the reasons for the use in teh first place. The insurance was cancelled because he forgot to pay it, even after we received the letter threatening cancellation. I bailed him out on that one because that could directly affect me and the kids.
I made an appointment for divorce mediation. I just can't do this anymore. I e-mailed him with the date and time. He just called to tell me how this is not what he wants, but then the conversation turns to him defending himself and his actions.....same old, same old. I told him I would not have this conversation and said good-bye. In another recent post someone mentioned the movie Ground Hog Day and that is exactly how I feel, its the same day over and over and over again.
Lisa
This message has been edited by Lee66 on Feb 27, 2008 1:07 PM
I think its very important that we all recognize that we can't change our spouses. But in the same way you've changed the way you communicate love to your H, Sun, I think its important that we all be open to changing how we lovingly act and speak to our spouses so that they get the message we're trying to convey. Doesn't do anybody any good to convey a message of love if that message isn't being received on the other end. Kind of like those cell phone commercials about dropped calls where conversations take radical turns when, in fact, the other party didn't even hear what was being said. Blue
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
Sun,
I just read your post: "Now, I try to change the way I show love to my H." That is part of my point with the language of love. The way you love someone should not just be how you want to express your love, but it also has to be in ways that the receiver appreciates the love. Now I'm sure you still do somethings for your H that are how you want to express your love and that is great, but you also know what he appreciates as a gesture of love and you are willing to do that also and that is what I feel my H needs to do.
((((((((((((Lisa))))))))))))))) I understand. I really do. And this is a step forward even if it is not the step you really want to be taking. Its important for you to get out of the cycle whatever that means for you and the marriage. If it leads to divorce, so be it; it won't be from your lack of effort to fix things. If calling the mediator makes H hit bottom and really turn his game around, then that may be what it takes. In the end, you're doing what you need to take care of you and that's a good thing...even if it hurts to do it. Prayers and hugs your way. Blue
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
Funny, we didn't have to talk about this one as to whether or not it was "romantic". It was romantic to me because my H shows love through actions, and he's so focused in the morning with his routine to get him out the door that taking any moment to do something for me is considered romantic on my part since it takes thinking of me instead of him....something that he doesn't do when he's focused on the goal (in this case of getting out the door).
The coffeemaker pales a bit in comparison to that, so maybe timing of recovery is also an element. The scars of what H did are still pretty open and raw for me, so romance for me currently has to be something that makes me catch my breath a bit more. 