A little background first:
Our D Day was a little over 2 1/2 years ago.A was physically active seven years before that for about 6 months though OW stayed in H's life until D Day, with intermittent contact. H claims it was game playing and flirtation and call me crazy but I believe him. Right before D Day, the OW played her usual cat and mouse games and told H that she needed to move on. In a drunken stupor, he wrote the letter that I found in his briefcase asking her to continue their relationship, described it as a "bright,explosive light" and said that she was the one he should have married. There were other dalliances, as he calls them, that also torture me, but she was the primary OW.

There has been no contact since D Day nor was there ever a NC letter, despite my constant urging. She did move on and got married about a year after D Day. I HATE that she thinks my H is in love with her and that they had this wonderful, exciting relationship. I HATE that she has this love letter that positions me as the big mistake. I HATE that she thinks I don't know anything. I HATE that I am the subject of pity and ridicule when she should be feeling that way. I HATE that she had a great year preparing for her M while I had the worst year of my life. I HATE that there are OW all over the city who still think I am in the dark, shared intimacies of some kind with my H and think I am a fool/feel sorry for me, the betrayed wife who wasn't enough.

Right after D Day, I wrote a venomous letter to her and worked on it for months. It was a masterpiece of hatred. IC advised that I not send it, that it would make me look like a deranged harridan (which I was). She was right.

Now I feel like I could write a saner letter, letting her know that I know everything, that H has worked hard to earn my trust, that our M is better than it has ever been and I am sorry that she allowed herself to be so degraded. The intent, of course, would be to humiliate her a I have been humiliated.

I discussed this letter with IC on Friday. Clearly, she still thought it was a bad idea and questioned why I wanted to send it. However, surprisingly, she told me that I could choose to send it but that I should consider the consequences and then make my decision. Did I want to open up the whole thing again and invite contact? Would it make me seem like I cared too much? Would I seem pathetic and ridiculous for bringing this up so many years later? Would it bring the closure I am seeking? Would it help me to heal?

Part of me still desperately wants to send it and take away any fond memories she has. I want her to know that she doesn't share any delicious secrets with my H and that H worked hard to win me back.

But, mostly, I think that the second I hit the "send" button I will regret it and be embarrassed. I think that IC is trying to help me make good and healthy decisions for myself and maybe feels that finally she doesn't have to tell me what they are.

I am moving towards the place where the OW will not have any power over me. I am becoming able to see her and all the OW as deficient in every way and in some cases, mentally unstable. They are sad, pathetic creatures and I am slowly recognizing that it is beneath my dignity to acknowledge the losers in any way. I also have to remind myself that the OW was a child when she got involved with my H, barely older than my son today...that doesn't excuse her in any way but makes me realize that I am so much more than she ever was or ever will be.

My H's choices and fantasies illustrate how sick he was...he saw exciting, desirable women (a dagger to my heart) when the reality was that they were very, very ordinary at best, could not attract men of their own and were willing to settle for a degrading relationship. The only depth they had was in their selfishness, lack of morals, lack of self esteem and sycophantic admiration for him. Even in different circumstances, I would not have wanted to be friends with any of them. Sending the letter will definitely slow my progress towards that understanding.....and yet I still want to.

Help.

Wow... I feel every word of this.

My urges to do this lasted for years, but mostly have faded. My motivations match up to yours almost exactly (take the OW marriage, she's still loose (pun intended))

My husbands letters had references like "down the road, under difference circumstances and in a different time we might make our own future...soulmate...true understanding...you understand me better than anyone...." and I HATE that she's walking around smuggly after hearing those words...

but I also spent quite a bit of time reading on a site where OW find comfort, reinforcement and support from their like kinds and when this topic surfaces, your concern:

"Would I seem pathetic and ridiculous for bringing this up so many years later?"

is exactly how these letters are dismissed. Along the lines of "that poor woman, still worried about something that happened X months ago - what a sad, pathetic woman/marriage/ situation/life"

I don't think they ever really get it Susan - some maybe... but the things like the impacts to health caused by stress, the impacts to careers, the impacts to the children caused by 2 parents falling apart, the growth necessary to recover... seem to be dismissed as "not my problem, that was her H's choice"

So I think it might open an unwanted can of worms.

but I DO understand every word.

-Susan

Susan,

I can SO relate to your post. My DDay #2 was September 26, 2004. H's A ended around April, 2003. I wanted H to send OW a NC letter in 2005. He refused. I felt that if H really loved me and not OW, as he claimed, then he should write her a NC letter and tell her so.

I felt EXACTLY the way you feel now. Even As recently as last fall, I was upset that I had suffered so much while she got to hold on to her wonderful memories of a man who worshipped the ground she walked on and believed she was perfect. When she got old, she would still be able to look back at all the years she was involved with my H and remember the special love they shared.

Susan, it sounds like your IC is telling you what my IC told me.

Why shouldn't you send the letter? For the exact same reasons I decided to stop asking my H to send one.

1. Once the A is ended and contact has stopped between WS and OW, ANY contact of any kind with OW sends her the message that she is still important to WS. If she weren't, why the need to contact her (the message she might get from a NC letter)?

2. OW doesn't care if you and your children and your marriage were damaged as a result of the A. She simply doesn't care. You are not a real person to her, or if you were, she was able to dismiss you. Remember that she had the A for similar reasons that our WS did--she was selfish, immature, felt a sense of entitlement, and most certainly did NOT have any commitment to you.

3. You give her a sense and possible even a place of power in your lives. She already had a place which she no longer has. Don't give her a reason to attempt to push herself back in your lives.

All those reasons did not help me as much as these last two reasons (courtesy of dearpeggy.com and my IC).

4. I don't remember if my IC told me this, or if I read it somewhere, but "it is nobody's business what someone else thinks."

5. Related to #4, "we can not control anyone else." Obviously, because if we could, there wouldn't be a HH because none of us would permit our spouses to cheat. Ergo, we can not control what OW thinks or does. But we can certainly cut her out of our lives by not contacting her.

Susan, I so wanted my H to send OW a letter telling her that he had made a HUGE mistake, that he had hurt me terribly, perhaps to the point of damaging me forever, that our children were damaged too, that he was just using her for sex and that he found her boring, dull and stupid (which he pretty much did), that she was an object that he used as a bad coping mechanism the same way he had used drugs, alcohol and porn.

The truth is that if she believes my H loved/loves her, NOTHING anyone tells her will change her mind. NOTHING! She believes what she wants to believe.

My IC tried to get me to see that OW is a very pathetic person, and I have come (after MANY years and much therapy) to see that my IC is correct. OW is pathetic. My H was just one of God only knows how many men she had sex with. She told my H that he was her fourth or fifth AP--all during her marriage. Now what kind of marriage did she have that she could give herself permission to have A after A? What kind of a person is she? How important really was my H to her? It sounds like she refused to deal with problems in her life and so used A after A as HER bad coping mechanism.

Do I believe OW and my H love/loved each other? No, I don't. I believe that they were two very messed up people who used each other, who cheated on their spouses, who damaged their marriages as well as themselves even more than they were already damaged.

See, OW got the cheating version of my H. OW has memories of a depressed, sick cheater. If that is the kind of man she believes loves her, she is welcome to her delusions. If that was the way he wanted to be for the rest of his life, I would have left him because there is no way in HE** I would spend the rest of my life with a H who wasn't willing to work hard to figure out how he could do the horrible things he did.

I can't speak for your H, but my H has been proving to me that he is serious about our marriage and his love for me. He has been going to IC and has learned so very much about himself. I have the new and improved, vastly superior version of my H. I have the one who is remorseful and works hard to show me how much he loves me and our children, and how much he wants our marriage.

So I now believe that the NC letter is not what I needed to heal. What I needed was what I am getting now. My H had a little bit of IC in the fall of 2005, but not nearly enough (with an IC who wasn't very good). H started seeing my IC last fall, and he is now doing the kind of work that he needed to have done years ago. Not too late for him or us, thank goodness.

H's voluntarily going back to IC and to MC proves to me that he wants to be the man I want him to be and always believed was there inside. I can now accept that I can't change what OW believes, and I am not going to waste anymore of my life giving a hairy rat's ass WHAT she thinks. I am too busy LIVING my life with my wonderful, LOVING H, to care anymore. If I start thinking the kinds of thoughts you are having, I just remind myself of the way my H was during his A, and I know he is so very different today--the way I want him to be!

I hope my words help calm your soul. I do understand, Susan.

Gentle fairy hugs,

fairyfriend

Edited for content and grammar.

Susan,

I wrote this a while back. It helped me, and it was never sent. Today, I sit here able to forgive and let go of this woman, when there was a time I thought she would haunt me for the rest of my life. The key to letting her go is not with her, but with you.

((((HUGS)))

Unwanted Bond.

I feel you there when he smiles at me. I wonder did he smile like that at you. When he smiled at you did you think of me?

You are the ghost that haunts my thoughts, always a reminder of what can and does happen.

I think often of how he could be comfortable with you, confiding his guilt, his fears, himself. Did you wonder when he left you how he was with me? Did you wonder if he was comfortable being with me? Did it ever bother you that he could so easily slip between his worlds the way it bothers me?

We have both simultaneously felt a special bond with the same man, believing no other was in his heart. It’s like realizing a treasured keep sake was never really all yours.

I feel this bond with you, like walking into an unseen spider web. The sticky silken fibers cling to me unwanted. Even after I have frantically wiped them away the memory lingers sending chills up and down my spine. I want you gone and yet I seem unable to let you go. An Unwanted Bond seems to exist, the key to setting it loose continues to allude me.

As time goes on the tie that binds is thinning. The spindle turns and the course fibers are stretched. Eventually I hope to be able to pull that tie to the breaking point and with a snap it will no longer be.

For now it is still an unwanted bond. Are you capable of feeling it too?

Susan,

I read what Ami wrote, and I felt that way once. What helped me was my H telling me that once he and OW got past all the sex/porn/erotic emails and IMs and even the sex (which he says wasn't really very good), he didn't share much with her, only complaints, mostly about his (then) boss from hell. Mostly he just listened to her whining about her job and her H. He said he could work on his computer with the phone to his ear while she talked and he occasionally mumbled, "Uh-huh."

That is not the picture of a man who was sharing deep thoughts with OW, thoughts he didn't share with me.

The truth about my H is that he didn't share himself much with ANYONE, much less a woman who was too busy talking about herself to listen to what he might have had to say.

I know there are A where the partners share, but they never share all of themselves.

ff

Susan,

I totally understand how you feel... I scanned quickly the other answers you received and will say that Ami, Susan Fairyfriend are right on..

I also wrote a letter and gave it to my IC.. helped a bit..the only thing I can say is why waste your time..the OW is in the past..keep her there.

(((hugs)))

pat

"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."

The OW has moved on and likely doesn't think about you or your H at all. Don't allow her back into your life. Don't give her power by thinking about her. What was said during an affair is merely a FANTASY and it is not the truth, you know it, your H knows it and everybody here knows it.

Write the letter if you must. Give it to your IC or have a ceremony in your backyard where the letter gets burned.

K

((((((((((((Susan))))))))))) I saw your late night message to someone before I went to bed and wondered if you were ok - - it seemed like a weird time for you to be up and at HH. I wish I'd sent you a message so we could chat; I understand this pain very well. And look how many of us there are that share your feelings.

It would be an awesome fantasy to make an XOW realize they had been lied to and duped and used and that this bogus la la love land they created was in fact built on a foundation of steaming manure they both spread wide and deep. I used to dream of getting on a plane, going to OW's town, plastering the walking trail with simple signs and notes about what she really is. I wanted to graffiti her house. I wanted her to hurt as much as I'd been hurt. And you know what? I still want that. But I don't have to life a finger. You hear that sound? Its OW's drain.

You and I both have OW's who didn't "get it". They went merrily on with their lives and their own H's. But they are as messed up, in the fog, deluded, selfish and immature as when our H's left them. Just as they felt they could control our H's, they still believe they can control others emotionally. We know without them doing their own work, they'll continue the pattern of having A's themselves. Their marriages are doomed to be damaged or destroyed by their own hand. Or they'll be so deluded about their abilities to control another human being, that they won't see their H's having their own affairs.

Its hard waiting for karma because it doesn't hit as soon as we would like it to. But we don't have to be the ones to try and hurt our H's XOW's; they will do it to themselves, which somehow is much more fitting. Let's not dirty our hands, Susan.

In the meantime, I have days where I still ache with the knowledge of this starcrossed lovers crap. But I have moments of pause where I clearly see I got the real deal with my H. H and OW? Smoke and mirrors based on lies and manipulation - not a lot of substance there.

I asked my H to write a letter to me for our DDay anniversary. He'd spent so much time during his A celebrating OW, I wanted a letter from him explaining what he truly saw now and what he felt now when he thought of her. It was scathing. Would it help you if your H put something concrete down about how he sees OW now?

I'm going to use a phrase here by a very wise woman, because I think its relevant: "I don't have to believe what people with their own demons have taught me. " Susan, we gave the OW's in our situations the power to teach us things that aren't true and when our hearts ache, its because we're buying into those fallacious messages. And certainly, at the point your H was in a drunken stupor and writing to OW, do not buy into the ideas conjured up by his demons.

Your power - and your peace - come from within, Susan. Much love, BlueIris

(With thanks to Denise for the "Hear that sound" thread; it was really powerful)

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

Susan,

When I read Kim's and Blue's excellent comments, what popped into my head was that to our WS and to OW, the A is a fantasy. My H told me that he knew it wasn't real even when he was in it. He knew, for example, when he told OW he loved her, that it was a lie and just part of the game.

But to us, however, the A is far from fantasy. It is real and it hurts us to the core.

We have to learn not to take personally the shi**y behavior that went on during the A. I know that may sound goofy because the behaviors were real, but we have to remember that the A wasn't about US at all. It wasn't even about the OW. It was ALL about the WS escaping into a fantasy.

It still hurts, but putting the A into perspective can help us see that what we regard as real was never. Blue's description of a pile of manure is very accurate.

BTW, near the end of my H's A, OW lost her job (gee, you don't suppose her having used the company email and telephone, plus putting my H up at a hotel on company money had anything to do with her losing her job?), OW's H left her for the widow of his best friends, they went through an ugly divorce, and she was left with a lot of debt from splitting up their businesses.

ff

Susan, FF, Pat, Ami, Kid and Blue,

Thank you so much for all your responses. It means so much to know that there are others who viscerally understand the raging need to stike out against the OW. That is what is so wonderful about this place. People understand in ways that nobody else can and always offer caring help without any motives other than to ease each other's pain.

I knew that I wasn't going to send the note but everyone helped me feel better about that decision. Of course, you are all right - she has no place in my life, my thoughts or my M.

And Blue, you are so thoughtful and sensitive - nighttime is when all the crazy thinking happens and I work myself up into a deranged state. In the morning, I think much more clearly and wonder how I could even be thinking about the pathetic OW let alone want to make contact and show that I care.

What I am realizing is that I really don't care about them. They are sad, sad, sad....but I do care about me and how I am thought of not only by the OW but by all the people who knew, gossiped and said the kinds of things I would have said about BS before it happened to me. Oh well....all I can do is hold my head high and enjoy the life I have today with my loving, kind, remorseful "new" H. Still, sometimes, the rage surfaces and I feel the overwhelming need to stand up for myself the way no one else ever has. H is there for me today but, for a lot of reasons, even he has never stood up to any of the OW on my behalf. These are my demons to conquer. I am learning that there are other, more constructive ways to stand up for myself that don't involve stooping to the level of OW.

Blue, my dear friend, I hope you are right about karma but even more, I hope that I stop caring about what karma does to people that aren't worth caring about.

Susan,

I am so glad you are feeling better and that you will not have contact with OW.

I can also tell you that one HUGE reason why my H didn't want to send a NC letter, in addition to the time lapsed between the end of H's A and Dday #2, is that he hated himself, what he did, and OW. The thought of having anything more to do with her made his skin crawl. He was deathly afraid if he sent her a NC letter after the fact that she would contact him, and he wanted NOTHING more to do with her.

Encouraging fairy hugs,

fairyfriend

One of the best ways to stand up for yourself is to heal your marriage and show the world how strong it is to be able to overcome that type of a tragedy!!

The best revenge is living well

I had a huge problem believing karma happened. After all my ex left me and walked into another seemingly perfect relationship and I was left alone, miserable, depressed and laying in the mud. It has taken me a long time to get to a point where I truly believe that he will get what is coming to him in the end.

In his last days on earth he will reflect back on his life and have a number of regrets, while I will be at peace knowing I did all I could and lived my life honestly.

I know it isn't easy going through all the ramifications that come with affairs. It is like trying to run through water, isn't it. Seems like your finally pushing ahead but the motion of the waves then makes it tougher.

I can tell you though, that there is life after an affair and it is possible to be happy with or without your husband. Whatever road you choose, this too shall pass.

Kid

<<that doesn't excuse her in any way but makes me realize that I am so much more than she ever was or ever will be.>>

THIS statement stuck out to me! How you feel about YOU is all that matters. As my IC would say, why are you trying to convince the OW of something? Believe in yourself...who care what she thinks? You and your H know the truth (my IC again) and that should be all that matters when it comes to your relationship and marriage. But I definately understand how you would want OW to know the truth...I so get that. Who said this to me recently on one of my threads....I forget...but "the truth rises to the top".

(((((((((((HUGS))))))))


~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Isn't this place wonderful. Where else can you come in crazy and feel so loved!

As you can see so many of us have been there felt that. You want to feel cherished. You want to know that you are THE one and only in your husband's heart, just like you were on your wedding day.

That feeling is gone. We now know reality. As my cousin says that fairy tale is over.

So.. if you wrote to OW what would YOU gain? The satisfaction of hurting her? Of destorying her fantasy? Would that make you feel sacred in your H's eyes?

What we want is to regain what we have lost.


I have learned that my old marraige is gone. It is dead. That is why we never did a renewal of vows. I never broke mine.. what would I gain from another ceremony?

Instead, over the years what I DID gain was a renewed faith in ME. I learned that I could survive hell and back. I knew that I was stronger than I ever thought possible, and NO cheap so and so could take that away from me.

I remember dear Len... we had some kind of conversation about me hurting IF they shared laughter together. Lousy Len said, " and what do you think they went to funerals together, of course they laughed". I was SOOO upset!!! Sex was one thing.. but laughter... that too???? I was so hurt.

I don't rememeber the whole conversation, but NOW it is funny!

What I wanted was to hold on to each bit of " us " that I could. Anything that THEY did not share.

I rememebr on d day asking H " but are you best friends like we are"? Can you talk to her about anything like WE do?

The truth is Susan we were robbed and ain't nothing we or they can do will get it back for us. There is no way that pain can be taken away.

All we can do is get to acceptance of what was, and the truth of what is.

My suggestion is that you think about what you NEED. What is still missing that you feel writing that letter would GIVE you. Then figure out how to get that need met. Is it more assurance from H that you are the one, that he truly loves you and cherishes you? Try to identify the need and let's talk about ways to fill that hole in your heart.

Writing that letter and posting it here is a healthy way to deal with the bitterness. Sending it to OW will not help YOU.

If she were the type who would hurt from your letter then she would never have had the affair to begin with.

Look at our FWS. Look at who they are NOW. Your words are hurting them. All our words have hurt them. That is why they share their pain with us to help us and themselves to heal.

They are different from who they once were, just as our mates are not the same person. Just as we are not the same.

You need to find out the source of your pain and deal with it in a productive manner. Your healing has been beautiful. This is one more layer you need to peel to find the core. Healing seems to be in spirals. For me emotional healing and logical healing came in waves. Today I am accepting of our past in both emotional and intellectual understanding. It takes a long time and lots of work.

You have to do what you are doing. Which is to process the pain and find the best way of dealing with it. Writing here for me was always best. I was able to expose the raw feeling and get help from loving friends.

What is it you need dear Susan? What do you WISH this letter would accomplish?

Sending it as you so wisely say is not the answer. The important goal however, is to understand the need. She will be out of your life when you let her go. My H had four affairs. So I truly understand your pain. One of them I knew and seriously wanted to confront her. When I realized MY H was simply one of many for her, I knew she would never understand me. I was nobody to her. My family had no value to her.

Today I realize my H was just as empty as she was. However, the man I now have is someone I am proud of. He is a man who made a choice to dig deep and find himself and then fight for me. This love is worth something. Before it was my love for him that was complete and total. Now each day he earns a bit more of my love and respect. This is a life time project and each day I get closer to forgiveness. A goal I once thought impossible. Today a dream I realize will take a life time, but one worth working towards. In the meantime I continue to do what is best to help me heal, grow and get healthier. Thoughts wasted on some one who does not value themselves does not help me to heal. She has her own problems or why else would she settle for a man who is married. She is not worthy of my energy anymore. Today I choose to give only to those whose friendship and love I cherish.

With love,
El

Susan,

I have to echo the words about what a wonderful place this is to heal. El I value you as a friend, as many of us do. Your words are honest and loving and that is why so many cherish you.

Susan reading your post reminded me of the time, energy and pure stress I wasted on OW for such a long time. I wrote letter after letter swearing I had to send them. I always let H read them then put them aside for a few days. H always said I could send them if I wanted but what purpose would it serve. It angered me every time he said this to me but after a few days I always decided it would serve no purpose so shredded them.

What I was most angered about was the interactions OW and my H shared in intimate, personal and physical ways. I can never change those realities but H convinced me slowly that he wanted to live that part of his life down to me and try to regain my trust.

Thinking back now I question how we made it through the fog stage. Both of us walked together through a tough journey before we even started healing. The grieving process of a lost marriage was a loss that only someone who has lived would understand.

It is so true that the marriage has to be totally rebuilt. However I have to agree with El that the responsibility of the WS far exceeds the input I was capable of. Infidelity stripped me of my self esteem, self worth, self respect etc. When you combine all of these character traits that PTSD dishes out it is a wonder we survive infidelity. The craziness and insane behavior I lashed out with was so out of control.

Just knowing my H took what I dished out convinced me he was worth giving another chance. I allowed him the time to earn more trust back. Like El I think we are worth the time and energy it takes to rebuild this marriage even if it takes up the rest of our lives.

Amber

WOW! I am so moved and touched by all of your responses - the care and thought you all put into them is just amazing and what this site is about.

I asked my H to read this thread and he was very impressed by the insights and how constructive all of the thoughts were. I think it helped him better understand how I feel and showed him that my feelings are not just because of my personal craziness but are shared by so many.He has always been supportive of my coming here but has never read anything before - I think he secretly believed we were a bunch of raving women ranting about our WS. Now, he knows better!!!

I got something from each and every response:
Susan - Not that I want others to suffer but it was so comforting to see that you felt the same way. When you told me that the OW would see me as pathetic, that rang so true. I am not going to let that happen.

FF- Also comforted by how much you related to my feelings. Somehow, I felt that almost 3 years later, I should be done with this obsession. As painful as it is, I am glad to be reminded that I am nothing to her - so she must become nothing to me. I also found it interesting that your H and his OW talked about nothing a lot of the time. My H agreed that was the case. It's true - we create our own fantasy about the A,thinking everything is passionate and loving, when a lot of it is ordinary and boring. In my H's case, they fought a lot as well because of her frustraton with the relationship.

Ami - I loved your post. Yes, I have felt that there is a bond with the OW - my IC would call that triangulation - a very unhealthy, competitive arrangement. For months, I couldn't have sex with my H without wondering how it felt with and for her. Sometimes, even now, those thoughts creep into my head. I have asked H for a lot of sexual details and he has (mostly) given them but I do not believe he has divulged fully - too embarassing for him and too painful for me. At this point, I think I am better not knowing all the ins and outs (pun intended) - I have enough movie material as is.

Pat - you are so smart. Yeah, why waste my time?

Kid - I love your strength and always feel empowered by your posts.

Blue - we share so much so I am not surprised that we both want to show the world the OWs as they really are. As my IC has told me several times - without exception, people who have A's with married people have issues of some kind, though those issues vary with each OW. No one in good mental health with a healthy ego would choose to be immoral and accept OW status. H's very ordinary OW had low self esteem, hated her mother and tried to "chin up" on my H. I picture her as happily married with a scrapbook of sexy memories with my H - it is just as likely that she is unfulfilled in her M and feels rejected and discarded. There was definitely a battle between us and she did not win. (This woman asked H all kinds of details about me, including where I bought my clothes - funny if not so sick and sad.)

Like you, I go way up and way down - how lucky I am to have the H I have today, how it aches to think about H and his OW.

Cal - When you wrote about why am I trying to convince OW of something, I realized that she will never be convinced of anything and that she just doesn't matter anymore. She only matters if I let her.

So thoughtful of you to write when I know how much you are dealing with right now. How are you?

EL - You are just amazing - always kind, loving, wise and so willing to give and give and give. It is so true that we just have to accept that our lives and M are changed forever and that we cannot reverse what happened and gain back what we lost. Like yours, my H has become a different and better man. I am learning to trust but with baby steps. Here's the kicker, though - as he becmes better and better, I get more and more scared of losing him...probably another post.
I am going to give a lot of thought to your question about what I need because I agree that there are ways to get it without lowering myself to the level of OW.
And, I could so relate to the anguish of thinking that they laughed together, had their secrets, probably had pet names for eachother, etc. My H said that he would not talk about me or our M and that they did not have pet names like we do - in his own strange screwed up view of morality, he thought those things would be real betrayal - sick, sick justification for his selfish behavior and just another way to tell himself that he wasn't doing anything really wrong.

Amber - you give us all hope.Your perspective on wasting time and energy really resonated with me. Nearly 8 years were tainted by the A's - do I want to taint the next 8 years with bitterness and thoughts of revenge? Much better to put that time towards my own healing and growth.

Thank you all for your help. You are all so loving and so right - writing to "the thing" is not going to bring back what I lost - and I could lose even more - my dignity - and that is never going to happen again!!!!

Did I write about the quote I found on a Starbucks cup last week?
From Madeline Albright - "There is a special place in hell for women who do not help other women." There will be truckloads of OW trash in that special place.

How I wish we could all meet!!!!

"I don't think they ever really get it Susan - some maybe... but the things like the impacts to health caused by stress, the impacts to careers, the impacts to the children caused by 2 parents falling apart, the growth necessary to recover... seem to be dismissed as "not my problem, that was her H's choice"

I disagree with this comment. I think Sunflower, Rett, Helen, etc do truly get it. I think there are many WS's out there that get it. They spend their lives trying to make up for their mistakes. To indicate that most don't get it, is inapproriate especially on a forum like Open that is supposed to promote healing of both parties. I think that is an injustice to those that have spent years making amends.

Edited to add for clarity: Just as there are WS's that get it, there are OP's that get it also. I don't think it is fair to assume they don't since we truly don't know what is in their minds. We don't see how they heal and what they go through, mostly because any that are remorseful wouldn't be coming to a site such as this for fear of being attacked.

see the phrase - "some maybe"

we're not talking about FWS, we're talking OP, specifically OW on the the site I was referring to.

Don't take it out of context.

-Susan