I would love to talk to you.

Fondly,
El

I would love to talk to you too. Sadly, I was working. Hope to see you soon.

Sorry I missed you. I wanted to share some thoughts with you about healing. Your post has caused a lot of thoughts for me. It was such a good thing for me to realize I have forgotten the angry rage I was once in.. I remember the feeling oh too well. I never thought I would let it go.

However, almost 8 years later with a H who has really worked hard and done everything he could to earn my love and respect the impossible has happened.

I would not have realized how far I have come till I read your post and the responses. I just really really want to stress how healing IS possible. I NEVER thought I would heal, it is totally amazing.

I remember in therapy talking about the anger and saying I have never felt anything like this. Dr. Wonderful said it is not anger but rage that you feel. I was so shocked. He was so right. He encouraged me to talk about it in therapy saying it was poison I had to get out of my system. However, I had to talk about it in therapy so that I as well as the marraige could heal. To keep it in, or to act out would destroy me as well as him. I had to learn to talk about things that were beyond words.

The anger phase lasted a long time. It took a long time to errupt too. I was too afraid to face it. I never in my life felt anything like it.

I just wanted to say what you are going through is NORMAL and only here can we understand the craziness.

I remember watching this movie The Mummy I think... there was a scene she was on some platform there was fire beneath. Her H was trying to rescue her I remember saying... you would have pushed me in... he could not believe I could feel that way. I said but that is exactly what you did.. he had tears in his eyes.. he could not believe the trigger the pain I felt.. that I could feel he betrayed me like THAT.. I said no.. much worse...

It was such a visceral image for him that to this day if we talk about that moment he still tears up. For me it was a profound healing moment that he was begining to understand the depth of my pain. The UNIMAGINABLE pain. That nothing was safe in my world anymore.

Just wanted to send you loving hugs Susan and said I never thought I would heal from that rage. I have not forgotten it, I have accepted that it happened and it is part of my history. Our history. I have learned that for the rest of my life it is MY responsibility to keep ME safe not his.. I will hope he protects me, but no longer will I bet my life on it.

In the past he was my life. This hurt more than anything. However, once I realized that I did not have to give him up, just realize he was not the dream that I once had, that I could CHOOSE to allow him to earn my respect, that I could CHOOSE to allow him to earn my love.. that I could choose to go on with him, or give him up, that the choice was MINE.. I felt better about me. I felt safer with my choices.

My young daughter once asked " who made Daddy boss" I laughed at the time. I used to like him being in charge.. now I challenge him when ever I don't feel confident about areas I used to give him total control over. Now I listen and learn cause now my job is to make sure I am always safe.

I just wanted to share what I have learned with you and help you to realize that learning to keep you safe is not something you thought you needed to do before infidelity. Now, you will learn how to trust your own feelings above what you should feel. Once you learn to trust you above all else than the anger will dissipate. In time... you will be able to deal with the anger. If he continues to earn your respect it will become a distant memory. In time his actions will prove worthy of your love, or you will know it. You will learn to trust your feelings, and never doubt your own instincts.

I just reacted so deeply to your pain and wanted to give you a reassuring hug. I have been where you are and truly know that it gets better.

Much love,
El

Dear Wise El,

Thank you on two counts - first, for thinking of me and second, for your comforting and insightful post.

My H continues to be remorseful, kind and loving- truly a new man. He is better and our M is better than ever before. He has matured into a fine man and recognizes that he behaved like a selfish, cruel adolescent. And, he has not had a drink since a week after D Day- he is a poster boy for sobriety.


My only issue - he no longer wants to talk about it every time I want to and that bothers me but we do have discussions, particulary after I have had an IC session. I have a very controlling nature but have realized that everything can't happen exactly as I want it to and on my timing. He is very forward looking and wants me to be too - I still get lost in the past and that frustrates him. That also provokes my anger,even though I know that he has my interests at heart, along with his own.

Yet, the rage lingers - it comes and goes but when it is here, it is overwhelming and I just want to rail at a world that is so unfair. I have never had any trouble expressing anger - during the A years, I screamed and yelled but never took any action of significance. Of course, I didn't know he was cheating and I know that would have prompted me to act, as it did on D Day - another source of rage as I was robbed of the right to make choices.

But, like you said, I am learning that the world isn't always fair and that I must rely on myself and value myself. And, sometimes, I am there and then I slip. I hope that, with time, and continued therapy that I get to place that I truly believe what I know rationally.

I so related to your fire story. Recently, a good friend of mine watched her H care for his dying sister and she marvelled at his kindness and patience, comforted that he would be there for her were she faced with similar circumstances. I told H about that (he knows friend's H) and said that I didn't think he would be there for me in sickness or if I was hurt and needed his constant care. He had been unreliable and selfish for so long that I continue to believe that he would abandon me when I needed him. He was very hurt that I felt that way and sadly, I still do. But, I hope that time and his continued loyalty change how I feel.

And, I recognize that H is not the knight in shining armor that was supposed to make everything right. He is far from that but more importantly, I am the one that needs to make it right.

And, I also recognize that the world is not always fair, that OW don't necessarily get what they deserve. Yet, I also know that I must find my way in that world.

So, there is progress but I am not ready to give up the anger completely. I cling to it as protection against being caught off guard again. I hold it up as evidence of the great pain H caused.I hope that changes.

Sometimes, I just can't believe that all of it happened - it feels so surreal - and other times, I am able to incorporate it into my history. I have wild mood swings but less often.

Mostly, I am tired of all of this, bored by it and just plain sick of it. I go back and forth between knowing that I have a good life now and despising H for what happened in the past. H is doing all he can and I know I can't evaluate his past behavior by the man he is today. Still...

Think I will talk about all of thisi IC tomorrow.

Again, thanks for your concern and your wisdom.

Wise hardly! Just older!

I think of you Susan cause I so feel your pain. I wish I had printed out all my old posts. It is amazing the changes that have evolved that I never thought would happen.

One of the concerns I had when you first came here and discussed with you was your protecting your H so much because of the alcohol. You said your C felt this was what was necessary for his sobriety. Obviously he was right cause for your H to remain sober since a week after d day is HUGE. I am quite impressed with his determination to succeed and become the man you deserve.

However, inevtitably this has to take a painful toll on you. For me talking incessantly was so important. I wrote here went to therapy every week IC and with H. Still that was not enough. I needed TIME. You also have the extra responsibility of your H's well being and walking a delicate line. No easy task putting his welfare above your own need to talk. I admire your understanding and love for him and I believe that is why I look for your posts so often and wonder how you are doing. When you wrote about anger my heart broke for you, cause I feel your pain. Yet you continue to impress me with the depth of your understanding and love. You seem to have an excellent grasp on all that needs to be to continue your growth.


I am glad you are writing here. I remember when Dr. Wonderful told me " I had to get the poison out" one of the things I did was take some sort of writing workshop. It was good. I don't know how I found it but it was about healing. The teacher had a group of about 5 meet once a week. She provided a topic and a notebook. We wrote and wrote and wrote in answer to her questions. There were never any smiles among the group or conversation. She just provided a few questions and we poured out our hearts. I NEVER read my responses. I was afraid to. I know The Mummy movie was popular at that time and wrote about that scene over and over and over again! I had not thought about it till your post.

I share all this cause I want you to find another way to " get the poison out" in a positive way. We once had someone here named Fig. Susan Still Kickin and Fig were dear friends and had the honor of meeting each other. Susan shared with me that Fig was just as wonderful in real life as on the board.

Fig was able to use Jungian psychology tools to make a sand box and use figures to deal with her pain. She found the practice very helpful and healing. Mrs. Still Kickin do you remember this better than I do? Perhaps you can share your thoughts? My point is each of us has to find a constructive outlet that helps us to heal that does not hurt anyone, not us or the person we love. Once you find that outlet healing understanding becomes easier. After my writing workshop that notebook represented the poison the vitrol I felt. I was able to actually bury it in the basement along with all the other things I collected during discovery. I have no idea where it is now. I said one day I would throw it out. I used to look at it. Then one day I no longer needed to remind myself, to prevent myself from loving him...

Again time...

Susan you write
" yet, the rage lingers - it comes and goes but when it is here, it is overwhelming and I just want to rail at a world that is so unfair. I have never had any trouble expressing anger - during the A years, I screamed and yelled but never took any action of significance. Of course, I didn't know he was cheating and I know that would have prompted me to act, as it did on D Day - another source of rage as I was robbed of the right to make choices.:

This is so true. You were robbed of the right to make choices. It is overwhelming and unfair. You did not know he was cheating...

How basic an assumption we make. That the one we love is faithful to us.

This indignity goes beyond words. It is truly incredulous.

I remember so often driving alone. Then suddenly hitting the steering wheel.. crying.. screaming.. NO he did not have an affair.. AFFAIRS... He loves me.. no that is not possible. BUT HE SAID IT.. oh my God how I wanted to die.. the searing pain as the reality sunk into my brain in those quiet moments.

Time.. eventaully I accepted that this was the truth. It really did happen. Eventually I stopped questioning my own sanity. Eventually I started to focus on my healing and not my rage, not my pain. But I could not do that till I accepted that the OLD marraige was dead. I NOW had a choice. What would I do about the man that stood before me? Was he worth a chance? A man who could look at me in the face and lie to me for YEARS.

Blue Iris a very wise woman writes there are somethings too horrible to write here. Some things that each of us has experienced that are too painful to even think about in our own private thoughts. Blue, each of us has though. You and Susan seem to have a very deep friendship. I would like to seriously suggest you call and write to each other and share those thoughts that you are afraid to think of, I have been truly blessed with special Angels here on healing. I have shared thoughts that I was too afraid to face and by discussing them with friends who understand I was able to heal from the impossible.

I have suggested many times that the friendships we make on this board are life saving. They are sanity making. I just want to encourage everyone to reach out to the special people and share the pain that defies words.

Susan I am so glad you are writing here and sharing your heart. I see you digging deep and feeling the pain. I am so proud of you. I know how it hurts. I also know that is the way to healing.


You write about your ill friend and her H. Unfortuanately when our mates are so selfish as to disregard our physical amd mental health for their .... well... it makes you wonder if the person you trusted with your life is worth your life. So much has changed when we first said I do...

I hope the pain they once saw on our faces will never be forgotten. That when we need them to care for us for whatever reason that they will understand what real love is all about. As you so beautifully wrote "But, I hope that time and his continued loyalty change how I feel"

AND

"And, I recognize that H is not the knight in shining armor that was supposed to make everything right. He is far from that but more importantly, I am the one that needs to make it right "

Lessons we have learned from life Susan! Lessons that have changed us forever more.


" So, there is progress but I am not ready to give up the anger completely. I cling to it as protection against being caught off guard again. I hold it up as evidence of the great pain H caused.I hope that changes.

Sometimes, I just can't believe that all of it happened - it feels so surreal - and other times, I am able to incorporate it into my history. I have wild mood swings but less often.

Mostly, I am tired of all of this, bored by it and just plain sick of it. I go back and forth between knowing that I have a good life now and despising H for what happened in the past. H is doing all he can and I know I can't evaluate his past behavior by the man he is today. Still... "



I think you said it all perfectly. I just needed to re print your wise words dear Susan. It took me a lot longer to be able to say make those statements than you. You are truly making outstanding progress!
In time you will be able to make wise choices. You are still reeling from the pain and anger of betrayal. The healing takes sooo long. However, the progress you have made is remarkable. You just aren't perfect yet and that is why it is so frustrating. It has been years of your life. How long can it possibly take! Time.. dear Susan, just ask my friend Dave! However, the solution lies in using the time wisely. Working, reading and growing just as you are doing so beautifully.

Much love to you,
El

(((SUSAN))) ((((((EL)))))))

Two women I respect tremendously.

Thank you for these posts.

So helpful to me.

Hope

El - You big sweetie! I seriously do not know what we would do without you - - your compassion and insight are invaluable!!! XXXOOOXXX

Dearest Susan - I would be happy to talk, write, visit...my H was actually born in Brooklyn. There are some distant family members still out your way, though we're not in close contact with them anymore. But he did go to one of the universities in NY and he wants very much to go to some of the reunions in the future. In my dream, this is when I get to meet you - the stylish and wise NY lady and the suburbanite Californian who share so much across so many miles. But even if that meeting never happens, I am always here for you to talk in whatever medium is most comfortable and accessible for you. You have helped me soooooooooooooooooooooo much and I am forever grateful.
BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

I love this thread.

I truly do.

I was talking in IM's today about my issues as of late to a former HH member. I talk to Len in chat about my issues all the time - he always listens...not always helps though.
I have exchanged emails with several members here and have had the experience of meeting two wonderful HH angels in person.

This forum has been my life saver. The friendships I've made and connections have pulled me through some awful days and saved my sanity more than once. There have been those here who have traveled into my life and been a daily savior...and then moved on. There are also the steady ones that have been there since I joined in 2004. This place is amazing.

I'm melancholy.

El - you are such a wonderful person wish amazing writing skills and wonderful wisdom. Many of us look to you for that 'positive' spin on things. Your posts always bring a smile to my face. You have used your 2x4 gently with me - but I'd had to see you weild it fully!!



Denise

"Our lives begin to end when we become silent about things"