My MIL and FIL decided to have a talk with ME today, lol. They are not blaming me in any way for their sons behavior but they have asked me to go back to work. <sigh>. Anyone who knows me knows I love my in-laws as if they were my own parents...and I believe they feel the same way about me. My FIL is a man of few words. He told me what his son is doing is wrong and that his behavior is unacceptable. He also told me that I am leaving my WH to his own devices, and that is not a good thing and they are worried about him. My FIL's thoughts are the more room I give my WH by NOT being there the more he will take advantage of that and not behave...that I am leaving room for other women to slip in. He's been in my WH's shoes...this is who he learned this behavior from. OK... we all know that whether I am there or not my WH's cheats. Whether I am there or not my WH flirts. Whether I am there or not my WH talks about how HE has been there 16 years. My WH is going to do what he is going to do whether Im there or not, so what is teh point of being there? I mean I get what they're saying...out of sight out of mind and all that, BUT I do not wish to subject myself, or my children to my WH's bad behavior.
My MIL was all over the place. One minute she was telling me that maybe filing for divorce would wake him up. Then she was agreeing that I should go back to work. Then she told me that I should go out and date and see how WH likes it. LOL. My MIL also suggested to her H that he sit down with all 3 of his children and talk to them about what he did, and apologise to all of them for the pain he caused. I said that was a great idea. Honestly, I dont know what to think of all of this....and I know they are trying to help. But I told then he doesnt even talk to me. He has not said anything about our situation in months (we will be separted 6 months at the end of this month). He just keeps living his life...he works all the time, does his running, he can see his family when he wants, he can see OW when he wants, and he can smoke when he wants...and he doesnt have to answer to anyone. I said, he is doing just fine and he is doing what he wants to do, and that I have no control over him.
Then there is my acupuncturist, which I just saw. He was worried about my stress level. He asked me what was going on and why Im so stressed, so I told him (the basic short non-detailed version). Mind you I have not told anyone else but close friends and family, and one other medical professional I see for my neck (same reason...worried about my stress as it shows up in my neck pain). Anyway, my acupuncturist sees nothing wrong with pot...it is an herb, and he prescribes herbs to his patients (not illegal ones of course). I explained that my WH is addicted and it is not just occasional use. He said your Wh uses it to destress and avoid. Then I said he keeps crossing boundaries with the customers too...he said well that's the pot...I said so then do you see my dilema? He said well, when you force someone to choose, you set them up to lie! I said, what? He said of course he was going to lie to you. I said you cant fix things if he is lying and f-ing OW, and addicted to pot. He said, well then, there's YOUR answer. Is it really that simple? Did I set him up to lie? I dont think so. I gave him a choice, not once but twice. He chose the pot both times...the only difference is the second time around he didnt lie about real choice.
Then ontop of it WH was hinting around today that he needs me to come back to work....saying how hard it has been on him and how tired he is. I jokingly said "when you stop f-ing the customers I'll think about it" and I laughed. He laughed at first, then he said OK. Then I said I have to go...time to get the kids to bed.
It has been one of those days folks! Just stuff!!! I feel sorta beat-up today...just kindof deflated.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
Ahh! Let me wave my magic wand and clear the muddy waters.
There now! Do you see? Do you see how your H and his parents are ganging up on you to guilt you into going back to work?
Do you see that FIL taught H to deflect responsibility and blame others for HIS wrongdoing?
Do you see how your acupuncturist has the same mindset as your H? Do you see how he is blaming YOU for your H's poor choices?
Can you say TOXIC?!?
My suggestion is that you call your IC IMMEDIATELY, if not sooner, and talk with him about this situation before it gets even uglier.
Right now you are feeling a low level of pressure, but my fear is that the more you resist doing their bidding, i.e. letting them control you, the more they will apply pressure to you and the stronger the pressure will be.
Just because THEY think you should go back to work does NOT mean that you should.
Stand firm, sweetie. You are dealing with two serial cheaters and a woman who tolerated serial cheating. So what do you expect?
Sounds as if your H has talked (translation: whined) to his parents in order to get them to put some pressure on you.
He has not succeeded in pushing your buttons to get you to stand down from the boundaries you have set for your best interest and now he may be manipulating his parents to try to get what he wants.
Stand firm in YOUR boundries and do what is right for YOU and you children.
(((Carol)))
“Anyone can give up, it's the easiest thing in the world to do. But to hold it together when everyone else would understand if you fell apart, that's true strength.”
I think the acupuncturist has been sipping too much herbal stuff.. ask his wife how she would feel...betting it would be a different story.. he is good at his craft , but not a therapist.
Your inlaws are looking for a solution.. they want you back together and end of story.. Cal you are NOT your MIL who took back her cheating H and never discussed the situation but let it be an elephant in their lives.. NOW your FIL is looking at his behavior... he needs to speak to his son about drug addiction and behavior that hurts family..
You are the easy one for them to talk to ...their son is not listening to them or willing to hear what they are saying. they are trying to help grasping at anything that they think might work.
Talking to your H and telling him to stop his behavior was right on.. Cal you are doing the right things keep strong .
Going back to work..NO, NO, NO, not until he signs in for drug rehab and you will run the place while he is gone. YOU stay strong..you are doing well .
(((hugs)))
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
Did I set him up to lie? I dont think so. I gave him a choice, not once but twice. He chose the pot both times...the only difference is the second time around he didnt lie about real choice.
--
It's late and I'm tired with no time to look this up, but I think that it's Peggy who has a problem with forcing choices because it does drive someone not ready to choose into the lie zone. I remember reading this, but I don't remember were... El? are you around?
This rings somewhere in my memory because in my situation, I "made" H choose when I was not ready to hold my boundries and he knew it.. so he lied ... and he got away with it for a looooong time (wrongly assuming that I would never change)
Anyway, I think it's Peggy Vaughn - not sure. I have a meeting tomorrow night, but I'll try to look this up sometime in the next couple days. It's an interesting angle to at least consider.
If ever there was a time to hang tough and stick to your bounderies, this is it my friend. Please hold on. I know the idea of giving in is sapping at your resolve, but it all depends on what you want for your future. More of what has been happening for last 4 years, or a life where you are not stepped on and can be proud of the woman you are. Your boundaries are important, they are who you are.
I wonder if your In-Laws have had the same discussion with your H, but in reverse. That his behaviors have forced you to uphold your boundaries, for all the RIGHT reasons. That cheating and smoking pot and an inability to tell the truth have caused his family great harm and sorrow. And it is he that is throwing it all away. It is so simple, all he need do is be a man, be honest, be faithful, uphold his commitment, and find some honor.
As for the acupunture guy. Ignore him, he obviously has a very imauture skewed version of what being an adult means.
Faireyfriend, you are right on Woman! You Rock!
Susan, there is some truth in the idea of pushing a person to lie. Unfortunately that only works with people who are liars in the first place. So it really doesn't matter in the end does it. The result is going to be that they lie. Period.
I understand what Susan is saying. When I gave him the choice, the pot or his family, I was ready to uphold my boundaries and I have. That is the difference. If you are not ready to accept the outcome either way then you should not push. I was definately ready after I gave my WH a year to get into recovery and he didn't do it, all along claiming to be drug free, when I knew that he wasn't cause I had caught him several times. Each time he would declare once again to stop, that he didnt understand how much it meant to me. Eventually he admitted he never had any intention of stopping and that he felt eventually I would just accept it. Then a few days later I found his huge stash. That was it for me. I had to make a stand for ME. And WH needed to also make that choice....the timing was right for both of us. As my IC said, WH made his choice a long time ago but lied to me about it and continued to lie. Based on his actions (not on his word) he got what he intended.
But thank you everyone. The waters have been getting muddy. I have been going through so much lately and have been feeling a bit overwhelmed. When you are emotionally exhausted things tend to get muddy cause you stop having the strength to fight all of the outside forces. I am doing my best to continue to uphold my boundaries.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
This is a bit extreme for me to say, but I think the acupuncturist is an idiot. Personally, after what he said I'd wonder if I could let someone so ignorant stick needles into my skin. That's just me though...
Pot is only an herb? OK, but the same is true for opium, and all other narcotics. While there are some drugs that are synthetic, all the 'traditional' big drugs are based on naturally occurring plants. Just because something is 'natural' doesn't mean it is good to eat, smoke or drink. Hemlock is natural, but it will kill you. I don't see people eating poison ivy leaves! Your husband is abusing a substance. Plain and simple. An unhealthy and illegal substance. It wouldn't be any different than if he were abusing something that is wholesome, except now he can get arrested and shorten his life at the same time.
As far as your in-laws go, I see them grasping at straws. I agree that your FIL is wrong that it is somehow your responsibility to keep your husband faithful. It seems that he is reflecting a fundamental belief that a man needs a continual supply of sex to exist. It's not true. A self-disciplined man can resist sexual temptation when he realizes that giving into it is his path to destruction.
You MIL seems naive or desperate. She wants her son to come back. She's asking you to do it for her. She may understand that it's not your fault or even your responsibility, but she's looking to you to bring him back for her. You know now that can't do that. Only your husband can make the choice to come back, to give up his addiction, to give up the women. Only he can make the choice to do what is needed in recovery to restore the marriage. Your presence in the pizza shop is not likely to influence those decisions right now.
Once you've had a chance to collect your thoughts, I'd sit down with your in-laws again and explain why the suggestions they are making won't work. Explain how you've had the same desire as they do, and you've done everything and given their son every opportunity to make other choices, but that he is stubbornly clinging to his pot and his affairs. Humbly explain to your FIL that a man should be capable of restraining himself for the sake of his family, and to think otherwise puts him on the level of a wild animal instead of an intelligent human. It demeans women by suggesting that their purpose is to provide sexual relief for men. There's a whole potential discussion there about women and the false ideas men have about a woman's desire for sex and women's sexual purity.
I think this is a discussion that could either bring you and your in-laws closer together or it could push you apart, so please choose your words carefully and try to avoid statement that would put them on the defensive, and be quick to apologize and regroup if the conversation seems to be headed in that direction.
TomJ
[Edited for clarity]
This message has been edited by tomj76 on Apr 23, 2008 5:30 PM
I think you are doing the right thing in tactfully letting inlaws know that upholding your boundaries as they are now, has been better for you and your kids....As time goes by they will see more evidence of the health/ strength that having some peace of mind brings...They will begin to see it in you and your children..As you said, it has already been a couple of months since your D has stopped cutting, and has better grades in school.....If they havent already seen this, gently point out that upholding your boundaries and taking care of your mental health is essential for you and your kids to thrive
I had to come out from "lurking" for this one. I agree with Tom and the others. Your MIL & FIL are desperate to help THEIR son, but that is no longer your responsiblity! You had been getting stronger by standing your ground and getting on with your life. It would be a shame to get sucked back into the mess. I know your WH is still part of your life because of your kids, but his rehabilitation can only come about when HE wants it. Just standing over him by a pizza oven is meaningless. His change has to come from within. Do what's best for YOU! If going back to work there is what YOU want, fine, but don't succumb to pressure. Can you find another job to keep you busy -- maybe something part time so you can still be there for your kids? Not even for the $$, but just for your own piece of mind? Then you wouldn't be tempted to go back and work with your WH.
Ya know, I have been thinking a lot about our business. How I used to feel "we" were a team. The truth is I have not felt that way for a long time working there. How can I when all I ever hear is "when I started this buisness" and "I've been here for 16 years". There is no "we" in those statements. And how he pushed me away and didnt want me to work there for years cause my place was at home with the kids. He really needed me out of the place so he could cheat without feeling guilty. Well, I was still working there when he found his newest OW. So apparently me being there makes no difference. Sure, it is a little harder on him cause I lightened the load, but me being there means nothing to him...I am just another employee. Actually he treats the employess better than me...at least he talks to them. He is more friends with the employees. When I am there he doesnt talk to me. The customers and the employess get all of the attention. He only talks to me if he has to. And the humiliation! OMG! How embarassing is it to go back there and know that most of the people who walk through that door know my WH is cheating on me and with fellow customers? So far there are two OW that I know of, both customers. Honestly, I walk in that door and wonder how many more there have been...was/is there only 2? Is the next woman who walks through that door someone he has slept with or will she be the next one? Yet, not being there is another loss I suffer. I helped build this business and now I cant even go there...I feel like an outsider....like I dont belong there.
The business was a big part of my life and I have to let that go to. While I am grateful to have my children, I feel that is all I have left. No sense of self. Everything that defined who I am is gone...no business, no husband, no family (not a whole family anyway)...I am no longer a wife and business owner...a mother yes, but is that all that I am? My life is no longer my life! All my hopes and dreams for the future...GONE! Everything I planned and counted on no longer exists. Now what? Everyone says there will be new hopes, new dreams...maybe, one day. But that doesnt help the pain of "now". It doesnt help...as much as people mean it to help...it doesnt I know I an greiving...I know this is nromal...but that doesnt help either right now. I know, Im just feeling sorry for myself...but that is out of that sense of loss of control...like I have no control over my life. I know I do...but it just isnt going the way I want it to. I know, too bad, that's life. I get it I really do. I should be grateful...but right now, that's now how I feel.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
"Everything that defined who I am is gone...no business, no husband, no family (not a whole family anyway)...I am no longer a wife and business owner...a mother yes, but is that all that I am? My life is no longer my life! All my hopes and dreams for the future...GONE! Everything I planned and counted on no longer exists."
That is the problem with making our life around others, when they are gone we have trouble moving on because we define our lives by them. I had the same problem Cal.
You have to start making your life about you. Yes you are no longer a business owner of the pizza place, but if you want to be a business owner there is nothing stopping you from being one. Your drawings and artistic talent could take you a long way and I really encourage you to explore that. Create your own business Cal. One that nobody can take away from you. One that you can say "I created 15 years ago"......
Being a wife isn't all its cracked up to be, is it? Not when your treated like a doormat and aren't respected. Don't give up the hope that someday you can be a wife if you want to be. Just the next time it will be on your time table and by somebody who respects you and treats you like gold. If that doesn't happen then it wasn't meant to be.
What does Cal want to do? What are your plans for the future. What have you always wanted to do but have never tried? Where have you always wanted to go? Make a life about you now Cal. Picture how you want your life to look and then start achieving those things step by step. Have you always wanted to go back to school? Have you always wanted to have a house on a lake? Have you always wanted to cruise? Make this about you now Cal. This is YOUR time to shine. You have your life back, now spend some time drawing what it will look like and mapping it out.
You have a new canvass now Cal, a clean slate and you can make your life look any way you want. This is a new beginning for you. Try to see the positive in that.
Thank you Kim...what you say makes a lot of sense. It is so hard to go from being defined by others to defining yourself. It is not as easy as it sounds. I have been working on it. But it seems that when someone so important to you can just replace you like you were nothing has the tendency to make you feel as if you are nothing. Not only can he just replace me sexually with another woman, he can also replace me at the business with another woman (or employee). My son's girlfriend helps make boxes at the business...she stepped up to the plate the other day when my son was late getting there to deliver. She did the deliveries...she helped in the dining room and WH was pleased to say the least. So many times I have told my son how much his GF is like me...well, my WH noticed it as well. He knows she is unhappy with her job and I think he is going to offer her my position. This upsets me so much...not because of my son's GF, but because I can just so easily be replaced. It makes me feel unvalued, unappreciated...and good for what? Now WH doesnt have to compromise does he? He doesnt have to give up OW in order for me to even think about coming back...not that I would go back. But I just feel as if the rug was pulled out from under me AGAIN! UGH!!!! I just feel like teh man is a cat, has 9 lives and always lands on his feet.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
This message has been edited by SoCalGal on Apr 26, 2008 12:20 PM
Cal,
Your reactions to your STBXH behavior and his seemingly ease in finding replacements for you in both the bedroom and at the business is so understandable, but does not reflect the real situation as far as H is concerned. Your H is needy and will grasp at any thing to make his life flow. If you are out of it, then so be it, he will accept anyone as a replacement.
I felt the same way when my H replaced me so quickly after our seperation and divorce, that I felt that he was telling me he had nothing to mourne... not his marriage to me, me or the change in both our lives. I felt he was telling me I was not worthy of feeling pain over.
However, several months down the line, I'm starting to hear that there are some cracks in his perfect new life. His new bedroom partner is starting to get on his nerves. My daughters have mentioned to me (after I asked) that he doesn't seem all that happy and that when asked he says he feels only so-so. He also looks unhappy to them.
In a way it makes me feel a little better to know that maybe now he is really starting to regret some of his actions or maybe even regret the loss of his marriage. However, I don't fool myself into thinking that his regrets could lead to any dramatic changes. More likely than not he is not aware enough of his own feelings to make any connections. Anyway, for me it is too late.
Cal, you must believe in yourself, your strength to persevere and your own ability to make "a life" for yourself without soon to be xH.
The door opening is the one you choose to open. Look for ways to enrich your own life with hobbies, children or even a new career. New and interesting people will come along as well.
That is when life bring surprises and if not surprises then at least some peace and contentment.
I wish you all the best.
Diane
Cal,
Your reactions to your STBXH behavior and his seemingly ease in finding replacements for you in both the bedroom and at the business is so understandable, but does not reflect the real situation as far as H is concerned. Your H is needy and will grasp at any thing to make his life flow. If you are out of it, then so be it, he will accept anyone as a replacement.
I felt the same way when my H replaced me so quickly after our seperation and divorce, that I felt that he was telling me he had nothing to mourne... not his marriage to me, me or the change in both our lives. I felt he was telling me I was not worthy of feeling pain over.
However, several months down the line, I'm starting to hear that there are some cracks in his perfect new life. His new bedroom partner is starting to get on his nerves. My daughters have mentioned to me (after I asked) that he doesn't seem all that happy and that when asked he says he feels only so-so. He also looks unhappy to them.
In a way it makes me feel a little better to know that maybe now he is really starting to regret some of his actions or maybe even regret the loss of his marriage. However, I don't fool myself into thinking that his regrets could lead to any dramatic changes. More likely than not he is not aware enough of his own feelings to make any connections. Anyway, for me it is too late.
Cal, you must believe in yourself, your strength to persevere and your own ability to make "a life" for yourself without soon to be xH.
The door opening is the one you choose to open. Look for ways to enrich your own life with hobbies, children or even a new career. New and interesting people will come along as well.
That is when life bring surprises and if not surprises then at least some peace and contentment.
I wish you all the best.
Diane
He may be a cat with 9 lives, but he is going through his alot faster than you are going through the 1 you have. Eventually his 9 lives will be burned up and karma will strike. Nobody can say when or how, but I truly believe you get what you put out into the world.
I know how difficult it is Cal. Life sucks sometimes
I know I an greiving...I know this is nromal...but that doesnt help either right now. I know, Im just feeling sorry for myself...but that is out of that sense of loss of control...like I have no control over my life. I know I do...but it just isnt going the way I want it to. I know, too bad, that's life. I get it I really do. I should be grateful...but right now, that's now how I feel.