Hello all, I would like some feedback on a question but before that I need to explain briefly where I am at: I have been attempting a reconciliation with wife after 2.5 years since d-day during which time I have struggled with previous attempts to find a new and workable basis for our marriage. Each time in the past I have found I just could not hold close due to feelings of lack of trust and intimacy between us (and I suppose coming from me in the area of trust but also wife is pretty cool in many ways - always has been). Anyway it is the trust issue which is important here - And by trust I thought I meant the problem that I just am not convinced she really has or can love me as I feel I need. I do not mean trust that she will betray me again. Well, to bring the story up to date I came back to the family home earlier today and she did not know I was in the house. I am pretty sure I heard her on her mobile phone talking. I found the tone of the conversation seemed intimate/ friendly but I did not get more than the odd word. Please - I was not snooping - but my alarm hairs on the back of my neck went up. So, I asked her about it and she said she had not been talking on the phone and then went out to the gym and took a very long time to get back. I then decided (I was snooping then.. and feel bad about it) to check the call register on the phone - And I found it to have been cleared ie all recent history of calls made and recieved was deleted. I confronted her - not something that is easy - And she denied again any calling and got very angry with me and started to accuse me of invading her privacy etc..
I guess my questions are: Did I act reasonably .. in looking at her phone without asking her. And, secondly, should I feel worried or am I just being a bit paranoid (as she said I was)?
I would appreciate any thoughts from you guys here.
Yes i think you acted completely reasonably. Trust but verify is a phrase I like to use. I also like the phrase "those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing".
If the hair on the back of your neck was standing on end, there was likely a reason Jerry. Follow your gut instincts with this.
I remember many calls that were like that in the last few weeks of my marriage. Phone calls that my H would take outside or in another room, which he said was so and so from work, but the tone was definitely a tone one would use with another coworker.
I hate to alarm you for nothing, but I would point out that not only did you think you heard her talking but then her call history was empty. What would be the need to delete that information unless you are trying to hide something. I don't think i've ever went in and cleared that info out, mind you my cell phone is used minimally.
I'm sorry Jerry. You were probably looking for somebody to tell you that you were overreacting, but I just can't do that.
When you said, "...accuse me of invading her privacy etc.. " I had a sudden flashback to the A days! My H would always accuse me of doing such...and I guess I was because (after several d-days) I felt I had a need to KNOW. Not to hear words from one who has lied, not to have a leap of faith, but to KNOW. And that it was ME that was going to have to get to the bottom of the truth, because - after all - it was only ME I could truly trust.
Things are 180 degrees different for me now. But I can understand your NEED TO KNOW. That is NOT being paranoid! You have experienced a trauma and you can only trust yourself 100%. I learned to listen to my inner voice, my suspicious imaginings...they almost proved I smelled a rat.
Sorry, Jerry. It's not easy, is it?
JJ
Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ
I support your right to check and verify her behavior. In my opinion, her history requires it.
Suppose she had been a heroin addict, and you came home to the smell of candles burning. Would it be snooping to look for the needle or the spoon? Would it be uncaring to your or to her to try to find out the truth? Would it be an invasion of her privacy?
Suppose she WAS talking to someone with whom she is engaged in an inappropriate relationship. Given the various issues that would come with that situation, would it be uncaring to her or to you for you to find out the truth?
For what it's worth, my wife has not questioned my right to check on her to satisfy any suspicions that might have. She never suggests that I'm invading her privacy. It's occurred that she has become angry at certain questions or certain expressions of my pain/anger of her affair, I'm sure she's never stopped me from checking her communications for any signs of impropriety.
Given the clandestine nature of adultery, the only way to know if this form of abuse is being perpetrated upon you is to check for evidence. Don't allow her reaction to take away that right.
OK thank you - That was what I needed - Shame to be so nosey though - It also made me realise another aspect of our relationship ie that she is really very agressive and uses a cloud of anger - Something I don't do - Mostly though I just feel sad and, at the least, not understood in my sense of unease - After all that unease is based on a concern for the relationship to be good and not from lack of concern for it.
I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. The fact that she acted so "guilty" and got so upset tells me that she is hiding something. Only those who are hiding something act that way. I'm sorry that you are at this crossroads again. You and I know that most people either receive or send calls from their phone and to have the history blank is suspicious. I suppose I could understand one or the other but not BOTH. Something smells fishy here to me. I'm sorry my friend, but you're onto something.
when I met this issue with H I explained it as a several- step process:
his past actions had been dishonest
he had acted angrily and attacked me to cover that up
so, reacting angrily and attacking me when I asked questions could only leave me thinking that he was doing the same thing again
and his past actions had proved to me that he could be dishonest
so what I need to see now is, not only honesty, but willingness to be SHOWN to be honest
therefore he needed to 1. accept that the situation resulted from his own past actions, and 2. take each question I asked as an opportunity to show honesty and build trust, not an opportunity to attack me for 'challenging' him.
I also stated that, were I in the same position, I would welcome any opportunity to show honesty and good faith - not attack the person I was supposedly trying to reunite with (I think Sun said that ages back)
H did seem to get what I meant when I put it that way. It has taken me a few years to be that firm about it though. Before that I lived on hope and tried to quell the fears which rose up every time H acted the same way, which was pretty much always.
That didn't work >
I also told H that if he was not prepared to accept that he had been dishonest and I had good reasons not to trust him, I was going even further out the door and we were not going to progress anywhere, ie, it was all over right then and there.
Maybe you need to lay it out like that Jerry. It does not sound as if your W 'gets it' yet. Even if she was only talking about you and was uncomfortable about that...she still needs to be prepared to front up to what she says & does.
Like you, I smell a rat, personally...and I'd have the traps out!
After someone has commited adultery, the spouse has every right to check up on them. They gave up their "right" to privacy once they crossed that line. You acted reasonably, and dare I say in your own best interest, and I feel that is a good thing. You should be in self-preserve mode.
Look at the facts (red flags). 1) You know she was on the phone. She lied! 2) She cleared the call list. Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing! 3) The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. Ask yourself Jerry, since this is all began on D-Day (2.5 years ago), how has she changed? And are those changes signifigant enough to sustain the relationship YOU desire? And what is her current behavior telling you?
((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
This message has been edited by SoCalGal on Jul 11, 2008 10:08 AM
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I remember your writing something on a recent thread in which you said your wife was STILL blame-shifting the A from herself to you. Something about your ignoring her or something like that. I remember when I read your post, I saw red flags and heard loud bells and whistles.
Jerry, my friend, I have very serious doubts that your wife has truly accepted that SHE is 100% responsible for her A and for all the pain she caused.
As others wrote, a remorseful WS WELCOMES the chance to show the BS they are being honest. Not only did my H give me all his passwords, but when a couple of situations concerning maintaining appropriate boundaries with women have arisen over the last couple of years, he put the boundaries in place himself and then told me. HE did what he needed to do to safeguard our marriage and my feelings. I am sure other FWS act that way, too. But I am not confident that your wife is remorseful--except that you found out.
Sorry for the bad news, but just my fairy cents' worth.
Just agreeing with the others and supporting you in your actions. The big difference in my H pre and post D-day#3 is that he encourges me to check his e-mails, his calendar, his snail mail - he doesn't use a mobile but would welcome me having access to the complete call record. In fact he likes me to do it, because it shows me that he is being open and honest with me. But before D-day#3 he was very cagey, protective of his e-mails and only gave me access after he had created a secret account with which to communicate with OW. (Of course his current "transparency" could just mean that he has done that again, and I am very vigilant for any evidence of that.)
So if your W is accusing you of violating her privacy, she is being unreasonable at the very least, and is still deep in the fog. At worst she is still in contact with the OM at some level. Take notice of your gut-o-meter, but remember it may take a while for her to come clean, and like so many of us you may have to go through a series of discoveries of more or less serious nature before you can resolve the relationship.
Sorry you are confronting all this. Believe me, my friend, we all know what it's like.
Hugs
Liz
Current Topic - am I being paranoid or reasonable?
