I've been struggling quite a while now with what romance means since my H's A. During therapy, our MC told my H that he needed to romance me, but I have a lot of difficulty and still resentment with the idea of romance. I am not sure I even believe in the concept of it anymore, as I feel that my H romanced his OW way more during the 4 1/3 years of their A than he EVER did me during our now 24 years of marriage.
Sometimes I feel that romance is just another way of lying and using people to get them to feed your ego and have sex with you. I WANT to believe in romance, but obviously, I am still jaded.
What do the rest of you think? Have you been able to reintegrate romance into your marriages, and if so, how?
<<What do the rest of you think? Have you been able to reintegrate romance into your marriages, and if so, how?>>
We've reintegrated it back into our M, but we also had it back in our dating and honeymoon phase so it wasn't missing the entire time. It was missing before my A's started because "regular life" got in the way and we were broke, stressed out, new parents, and not "feelin it", needless to say.
When we started healing we went through Retrouvaille and learned the importance of "date nights", which we faked the fuzzy feelings during for quite awhile. As the loving feelings returned, over time, the desire to romance each other returned because it was how we wanted to show love. It took effort, sometimes creativity, and we wanted to show those efforts to each other to show desire for the M to work.
We're all only human, and I can understand your resentment at your H romancing the OW. But if you allow him to divert his efforts towards YOU now, then you are in fact allowing nutrients to be deposited into your marriage.
I've heard of couples who place stipulations on certain times of affection when they face problems like this, where the W feels like the only reason her H is romancing her is for the goal of lovemaking at the end. They say "ok, this evening is all about tuning into us and romance, but there is to be only cuddling at the end of the night". Now, I think in your case it would be great to add the disclaimer that if you wanted to break the rule and initiate intimacy you could, but that it was in your hands to decide.
Part of my problem is that I know my H spent a lot of time at work IMing OW, sending her emails, talking to her on the phone. He says I wouldn't want the kinds of messages he gave her because they were mostly erotic/pornographic in nature. But I can't help feeling they were more than that sometimes because I know for a fact that he told her he loved her and I'm sure he paid her oodles of compliments.
How did/do you treat your H differently from the way you treated OM to make your H feel special and different from OM if you don't mind my asking?
Part of the problem is that my H has OCPD, so he has to work on not being hypercritical with himself and with us, his family. I am still angry at times because he wasn't critical with OW. He says he didn't think she was perfect, but he didn't criticize her. I guess it's that he spent years trying to make her feel special at the same time that he was being cruel and critical (often very unfairly so) with me.
I feel like he doesn't make enough effort with me and that I have to be the initiator (I'm not talking about sex, but about romantic acts), but he didn't seem to have had any problems being the initiator with OW.
H has been out of town for two weeks (not helping the situation). It's not that I have anxiety over what he was doing because that doesn't bother me at all. It's more that I am feeling down and I don't feel very special.
Why was he able to make the effort to make OW feel special but he can't or won't for me? I know he loves me, but sometimes love isn't enough (if it were very few people would have A, would they?).
Sigh.
Blue ff
edited for grammar
This message has been edited by fairyfriend on Jul 12, 2008 5:49 PM This message has been edited by fairyfriend on Jul 12, 2008 5:48 PM
I have always believed that the most successful marriages happen because the couple act like they are still dating, no matter how long they have been married. I think in order for you to get over the negative feelings you have towards romance, your husband needs to start treating you like he did when he was trying to date you. I think the marriages who follow this formula tend to last longer than when only one person tries to "date" (i.e. you).
Maybe by regaining those feelings you had for him when you first met him (and remembering the reasons why you dated/married him) will help you regain confidence in "romance". I understand that most people "romance" another in order to get into bed or whatever, but I think that the small things are good for a relationship (holding hands, kissing, cuddling, compliments, etc. without the sex).
Yes, they say that sex begins in the kitchen, or in helping clean up etc.. I also subscribe to the idea of remembering that there are two people and the dating days. Reading the thread I am reminded of a book I read quite recently that my therapist recommended - called "How to say no to the one you love". It described how important it is to keep a reminder to your partner that you are you and not part of them (ie the "no" bit) and then the surrender that is the partner to the "no" can be relived again and again. I like this idea very much and it seems to have in it that vital component of holding a mirror up to your spouse so they get to see themselves and, therefore, not take the other one for granted.
However, I struggle with this issue myself in my marriage which is not working too well. In my case it was always me who took the initiative and did the romancing - After wife's A I found it very difficult to continue taking the initiative (still do!). I then asked her to take more of a lead but that was even worse as I did not find I could respond (giving her feelings of rejection).. but I go beyond your question perhaps. I find the idea of faking it very difficult too. At the end of the day I believe that it is a deep, almost spiritual, level that holds the key ie if we are close at that level then the fire continues to burn.
I know how you feel. The trouble is that when my H does something conventinally romantic, I just think, Yeah, you did/said that with OW as well. Or, That's no different from what you did/said when you were lying to me. So most romantic acts have been devalued by the A. But there are lots of romantic things H does that he never did for OW (mainly for lack of opportunity). He is dong most of the cooking in our house now. He will do the laundry, clean up the kitchen, do the marketing without being nagged. He buys us flowers for the house. I think he realises that conventional romantic gestures are not enough and as said above, the romance for us now starts in the kitchen.
Still I struggle with the idea that he would have done all this for OW if they had ever had the chance. That's why romance is spoiled: he didn't save anything that was just for us. He used the same words (I have seen the e-mails), same kind of pet names, same songs. Above all he repeatedly used the L word to her (and of course the "in L" and the "soulmate" words), so these have been totally devalued, especially as he now tell sme he feels he never loved her. (See, you told her you loved her to get what you wanted (her to like you and be your friend) so what makes you telling me any different?)
I am finding it very difficult to tell him I love him at the moment. He tells me every day. But I just scoff and say, You say that to all the girls, or something equally dismissive. I know he hates it, but the reality is that those words mean far less to me now that the little gestures and acts that seem to show he really does want to be with just me.
That's the hard part for him, that I can't accept his romantic overtures at face value, that he knows I'm always second guessing him and above all that for me she is sitting on his shoulder whenever he does/says something which echoes something that happened between them.
I guess the solution is to acknowledge the positive things, the gestures that do mean something, and talk about the negative ones, the ones that bring the A behaviour back. I think we're trying to establish a new romance which is not tainted by the A, do novel things together, focus on companionship rather than romance, enjoy the things that work, forget the things he did with OW.
OT - would love an update on what's happening with your daughter.
I totally understand why you are feeling the romance is lacking..
When i mentioned this to our MC he didn't understand what I was talking about..
My H romanced OW.. he called her, bought her presents sent her cards, flowers, made her feel special.. I on the other hand was made to feel as if I was second rate.. I AFTER D-day was not feeling important in H's life.. he never bought me a Valentines gift.. his secretary ordered flowers for me.. H ordered flowers for OW.. He sent her cards.. called her .. took her to wonderful romantic restaurants for dinner.. I got Macdonalds.. and not much more....
It took about a year for MC to understand what I was feeling.. H took a while to understand what I meant.. For Vaentines day following D-day.. H took me to the St Regis in NYC.. beautiful Hotel.. expensive.. but he didn't really plan out the rest of the weekend.. it was a last minute plan.. we went to a beautiful restaurant for dinner.. his whole plan was last minute.. for the OW he had his agenda planned way ahead when he saw her.. reservations were made for dinner shows were booked..she was treated as a special person I was treated as a last minute thought..
Unfortunately I feel jaded too.. H is a great person.. but he doesn't hear me.. or listen to what i say to him .. he has changed so much in the past 5 years.. wonderful changes.. But I still feel that I am missing something.. romance.. maybe.. intimacy is hard.. sometime there other times missing. MC helps but...I still feel I am missing something.
(((hugs))))
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
Yes, Pat said it so well - for me it is the deep understanding of where I am and how I am feeling that really counts - For me this is the romance, the reassurance that she is really there close to me and that is the kind of holding I really long for - As Pat said "but he doesn't hear me.. ".. That is the opposite of romantic isn't it - And how I experience this so much with wife - this is what hurts me
