Hi Everyone,
I always feel the need to recap - especially for those who are reading my story for the first time.
Almost 3 years ago, my husband of 33 years at that time, confessed to a lifetime of affairs, starting within months of our wedding. Since that time, I have learned that he also cheated on me during the 6 years that we dated.
Truthfully, I have learned much about my husband in the past 3 years. None of it is good. I shake my head trying to understand how these things could have been going on for decades and yet i was blinded to all of it.
But that's not why I am posting. After 3 attempts at counseling, my husband has finally found a good counselor. Initially he went because he lies all the time. Continues to lie. However, lying is just the tip of the iceberg. The counselor feels the real problem with my husband is that he is a narcissist.
And that is my question - do any of you at Healing Hearts have experience with this? Have you learned that your Wayward Spouse is a narcissist? If so, what have you learned - can you pass it on to me. Are there books or articles, websites that you would recommend?
..and I too have learnt a lot about NPD. Yes you sure do wonder how it was right in front of your nose etc etc. But when you understand how the disorder works, the light just shines on in!
There is a lot on the Web, go ask Mr Google, including several good forums. Try these:
There is a huge difference between Narcissism Personality Disorder and Narcissism. As I understand it NPD is even difficult to diagnose accurately.
Narcissism is something I believe ALL adulterers are guilty of, it is the ME... ME... ME... ATTITUDE that allows them to believe that what they want is all that matters.
The personality disorder is a whole different nightmare.
I believe it is Blue Bayou whose wife was diagnosed with NPD.
Check out his posts.
Narcissism is a selfishness that destroys BUT.. a remorseful betrayer can LEARN from his mistakes and go on to be a wonderful loving mate IF he/she is willing to do the work needed to heal himself and his beloved. Healing is possible... I have "lived" here for 10 years, I know!
Please check with the therapist as to the EXACT diagnosis. It is important. Narcissism involves education and remorse, and the marraige can be saved if both parties want it enough.
I am grateful my marraige is strong and healthy because my once narcisstic husband saw my agony and loved me enough despite his having FOUR affairs ( I had one d day) to go to therapy and do whatever it took for as long as it took for us to heal.
My h.s IC feels that h. has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. And from what i have read so far, it would seem my h. is the poster child for this.
So far, my h. has only given lip service to wanting to restore this marriage. He talks the talk, but he does not walk it.
What I have found interesting is that since d-day - the focus has been more on him than on my recovery - especially this past year. And all of that fits with the NPD.
This is a new diagnosis for my husband, something that the IC is just beginning to explore. I thought by posting here, I would gain even greater insight especially as to how the NPD relates to adultery.
Essentially, how I was affected by the A & H's NPD is that one was a direct result of the other. To be fair, my H's NPD makes the A both way easier to understand and harder to get past. Easier, because he went into the A simply believing he was entitled to it, as so many do, and harder, because the NPD makes it almost impossible for H to have any insight into his behaviour beyond 'yes, I did it, but it was YOUR fault'.
Our M for me had been a progression through all the things I was told were wrong with me and all the things I tried to do different to please H. For the first 18 months we were together, everything was great - then came the tantrums, the days and weeks of refusing to talk to me while pouring the charm on everyone else, and the constant controlling accusations of all the things I did wrong. I loved him and I tried very hard to please him. Eventually over the course of ten years I did decide that nothing I changed was going to make any difference. Being very inclined to try and please people, especially those I care about, I had just acted on all his criticisms and complaints without thinking about whether he was being reasonable or realistic or whether he was giving anything in return. They do say love is blind! well, even a Coventrie can finally see sense and stop beating herself up!
I got through about another three years like that, during which I did a little more for myself. H became more controlling, more angry at everything I said and did, and very jealous whenever I succeeded at something. During this time I was trying to build a less dependent life for myself. I finished my university courses, got promoted, and our kids grew older. I figured I would just accept H as he was and if / when it finally got too much I would just have to leave.
Then, I discovered the A - amazing outpourings of love and devotion towards the OW, gifts, sly visits to her and her home, sneaking around avoiding her H (who was MY H's 'best friend'....go figure). It had been going on for some years. I was shattered. My H who I thought was basically unloving and only interested in himself was being so kind and caring towards OW! I could not understand it, after all I had given him everything he said he wanted and he still treated me badly, what was going on??! Especially since he had spoken so harshly of the OW, what then was the truth in anything he ever said??
Eventually I realised that the A was another manifestation of his NPD, that it was just another of many things he had done which made him feel good. H was lying to the OW as well as to his friend and me, and justifying it all to himself with a mixture of 'it's all C's fault' and 'I'm entitled'. On another level again he despised the OW and criticised her constantly while using her as a secret ego boost. It was all very complex. It did make me realise, once I had gotten through all the angst (and there was a lot, I lost 50lb and probably cried constantly for over a year) just how hollow a person H is, completely dependent for self esteem on what others say and do and at the same time hating them for having such power over him. His NPD makes him an empty shell of a person. You could say that the A showed him in his true colors at last, whereas everything else up to then had only shown me aspects of his behavior. As I said I was much too quick to be loving towards him, and that just made him worse because I never challenged his behavior directly. I blamed myself, which was of course both exactly what he wanted (it made him feel powerful) and made him treat me worse (because he despised me for bowing to his wishes). NPD is a very complicated disorder.
I can look back now 5 years post-A and not recognise the Coventrie-that-was, whilst I know the H I see now only too well!
For me the most typically NPD aspects of the A were (these are kind of related to each other)
-a complete failure to take responsibility - H blamed everyone except himself. I first thought this was simple avoidance but can now see in one way it was quite true - he DID pursue the OW to make him feel good because he could not support his sense of self by himself.
-the flip-flop nature of his behavior - nice in one minute and a shouting, thumping maniac in the next, with no recognition that he had ever acted badly.
-H just never remembering what he had said, or acting on what he had said he would do. I learnt to read his actions and ignore his words.
-an amazing rush for H from things or people that would make him feel good. A few times I actually saw him RUN for the phone to call the OW when he felt bad about something that had happened. He could not console himself or make himself feel better, someone or something else always had to do it.
-any apparent effort to put things right or to do better was always related to getting a good reaction out of me. If I reacted 'badly' (in the sense that whatever I said or did made him feel bad) he got angry because he then felt bad. This of course covered anything that anyone involved in trying to stay married after an A might do, with the result that nothing at all changed.
A lot of this is typical for As generally, but in the case of my H the A was (just??) an extreme example of his NPD thinking and acting which affects everything he says and does. He is like a hollow man, only ever as good as his next compliment or feel-good fix. He is not capable of an actual relationship.
Funnily enough the OW was much the same kind of person!
-a complete failure to take responsibility - H blamed everyone except himself. I first thought this was simple avoidance but can now see in one way it was quite true - he DID pursue the OW to make him feel good because he could not support his sense of self by himself.
-the flip-flop nature of his behavior - nice in one minute and a shouting, thumping maniac in the next, with no recognition that he had ever acted badly.
-H just never remembering what he had said, or acting on what he had said he would do. I learnt to read his actions and ignore his words.
Sounds like you could be describing my exhusband, although I'm not so sure I would have defined him as a true narcissist. Some people can still display characteristics of narcissim and like El said, everybody who has an affair has that me, me, me attitude.
Be careful assigning a label to their actions. In this case, if a therapist suggested it then it might be reality, but it is far easier to label them and establish that they have a specific problem than to accept that they just aren't remorseful and don't want to work on the marriage. Giving them a label can in some cases give them an out with the spouse. If you search long and hard enough on the internet you can find a personality disorder that we all may fit into lol
Meet Miss Obsessive Compulsive
This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Dec 8, 2009 8:38 PM
It is also possible that the REASON a WS isn't remorseful is because s/he has NPD. Just a thought.
And, BTW, meet MRS. OCD--certified! And from everything I have learned about the disorder over the past four + years, I have no doubts whatsoever that I have it, my mother had it, her mother had it, my younger daughter has it, and I still suspect there is a good possibility my older daughter has it even though so far she has only (ONLY!!!) been diagnosed with Social Anxiety Disorder.
"Some people can still display characteristics of narcissim and like El said, everybody who has an affair has that me, me, me attitude.
Be careful assigning a label to their actions. In this case, if a therapist suggested it then it might be reality, but it is far easier to label them and establish that they have a specific problem than to accept that they just aren't remorseful and don't want to work on the marriage."
You are quite right of course: everyone has some characteristics of narcissism or selfishness, and the A situation is a classic demonstration.
Believe me, careful was (and is) what informed my response to H, over the A and everything else. I answered Naomi's question because it was about the A. H's narcissism affects everything he has ever said & done and has been present since his early childhood, believe me - the situation is simply that the A was a very large and impossible to ignore event which grew out of H's NPD.
H is a hollow man, plain and simple. He depends for his sense of self TOTALLY on how others treat him, and he has a range of very calculated behaviors aimed at getting him what he needs to bolster his sense of self. This is reflected in his work habits, his choice of job/s, his choice of friends and how he treats them, the way he has treated me and our children both pre-and post-A, his view of life and other people, everything. His difference from 'normality' has been noted by everyone he has ever dealt with, it was just unfortunate that it was me and our children on whom the NPD has rebounded the worst. This is due in no small part to the fact that his NPD has led him to acquire and discard people during life (including his parents and siblings) completely on the basis of how they make him feel and what use they can be to him. Only myself and the children have been left standing, everyone else has either walked away or been dumped when they didn't do what H wanted!
I can assure you Kid, it wasn't the A which made me (or our therapist) think that H has NPD. It was just another piece in the puzzle. It was a very useful piece - it showed me just how catastrophic NPD can be - but it wasn't and isn't the whole story.
C my post wasn't directed to you in particular. Just to the general population in that we all want to fix the problem, therefore we try to identify one. It makes it easier somehow to think that somebody has a problem we can fix.
Mind you i'm not sure we realize how ingrained a narccist action's really are. I imagine you've had some experience with that. A good percentage of them will never change
This message has been edited by Canuck_Kid on Dec 10, 2009 10:13 AM
NPD is a close relative of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my W has. There is no "cure" for either mental disorder.
I am a social worker/clinician myself--I just retired from 25 years as a State Child Protective Services Caseworker & now am a licensed Substance Abuse Counselor. This doesn't make me any smarter than anyone else...it just means I've had the opportunity to work intensely with lots of people from all walks of life, many with Personality Disorders. Not to mention living with someone who has one......
DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) shows some promise with those disorders. But if the person is unwilling to seek help, there is little that can be done except for the non-NPD partner to learn how to put up what I call an emotional "force field" around themselves to stave off the egotistical attacks or crazymaking interactions that characterize the disorder. This ain't easy to do!
Google "NPD" and you'll find tons of books & online reources.
Therapy for the NPD and the non-NPD person is also helpful PROVIDED the therapist is highly skilled in that specific area. Some NPD or BPD persons mask the disorder by presenting a charming, engaging front, a thin shell that disintegrates around their victims. "Gaslighting" (making the non-NPD person think they are the crazy one) is common--please don't fall for it....
BB
PS- as Kid said, be wary of slapping on a label. But if it truly is NPD (and it sure sounds like it to me), your prime mission will be to protect your emotions. Personality Disorders are among the most hurtful and challenging conditions for the non NPD/BPD partner to deal with....
This message has been edited by BayouBlues on Dec 15, 2009 1:34 PM This message has been edited by BayouBlues on Dec 15, 2009 12:37 PM This message has been edited by BayouBlues on Dec 15, 2009 11:14 AM This message has been edited by BayouBlues on Dec 15, 2009 11:13 AM
Thanks for your post here. I have been reading about NPD and i feel my husband is the poster child for this disorder.
Can you educate me on what you know about NPD in relation to adultery? Because certainly not all who suffer from NPD commit adultery.
And the emotional abuse i have suffered from this disorder is overwhelming. It's all about him! Almost 3 years since D-Day and the focus is and always has been on him. How is that possible?
The first 2 years i think he "pretended" to be concerned about my emotions, my healing, etc etc. But this year, he just went back to his old ways. To say it is unbelievable would be an understandment. To say this is truly driving me into insanity is right on target.
Are there any particular books or authors you recommend?
Hi Naomi,
There are some support groups on Yahoo for persons living with an NPD person. They would probably be helpful for you. I am in a Yahoo support group about BPD.
As for books, "Why Is Is Always About You?: The Seven Deadly Sins of Narcissism" by Sandy Hotchkiss...
You can also Google for tons of other books, as well. Cheapest way is to find used copies of books on Ebay or Amazon.
He may benefit from DBT. The only way an NPD person would seek treatment would be so he could (in his own mind) PROVE to you, once and for all, that there's nothing wrong with him! He would be convinced in advance that the therapist or psychologist would totally agree with him. If they didn't, then the therapist isn't really qualified to know what they're talking about....Ironic, ain't it?
I think of a person with NPD as the Sun in the Solar System--everyone else is merely a planet rotating around the NPD person, and the planets all depend on him for everything--he is (in his mind) the source of all wonderfulness....in fact, I recall being in an NPD client's home, & he had a framed photo on the wall, with him in the center, with rays radiating out to photos of each member of his family!...sigh...
BB
Blue,
Thanks for your help here. I did order the book you recommended from Amazon. And i have read some articles on tne internet.
Do you know anything about SHMUEL (SAM) VAKNIN? He wrote the book Malignant Self Love: Narcissism Revisited. His book can be ordered at Amazon, or it can be downloaded, or one can just read all of it on the internet. I have been reading it but i have wondered if he is a reliable expert on narcissism?
Do you know how i find these support groups on Yahoo?
H. is fully aware of the narcissim and he understands how this diagnosis fits him perfectly. Yet he is content to remain in this disorder. Words can't explain how much this stupifies me. He talks the talk of wanting to rebuild this marriage and bring healing to me. Yet it is only talk. There are very little actions to back up his words.
Even this week, he lied twice to his IC about me - all to protect himself and make him look like this very wonderful person so that the IC would think he is great.
Naomi,
I don't know anything about Sam Vaknin, sorry.
To join a Yahoo group, open a free Email account on Yahoo and search for groups & then NPD. Then you can choose how you want to participate. It's quite different than HH, though, as far as how you get responses to your posts. I chose "daily digest", where the day's posts (including mine & others) & responses are emailed to me once a day in the evening. You can't keep your email address private, though, and people can send you individual emails. You'll get the hang of it once you spend some time there.
Or Google: Yahoo NPD support group. That should do the trick. If you still can't find it, let me know in another post & I'll give more explicit directions.
If your H "knows" he's NPD, he may be admitting this just to tell you what he thinks you want to hear. No real narcissist would believe deep down that they have such a significant personality problem--after all, they're perfect!
You can try asking him to be assessed for NPD by a qualified clinician, just to rule it out....You can remind him that the "D" in NPD stands for "DISORDER"--OMG!
The stats aren't good about NPD persons getting help and actually improving though. Bummer....But you can, at the very least, keep your own sanity intact by learning how to interact with an NPD person. But by no means compromise your own boundaries...easy for me to say...Let us know how things progress.
BB
This message has been edited by BayouBlues on Dec 17, 2009 8:07 AM
Thanks for this information. I'll let you know how it goes.
My h. has been diagnosed with NPD. And as I have said, as I read the material on NPD, I am learning that my h. is the poster child for this disorder. He has taken several of the assessment tests - and the tests agree with the counselor's diagnosis.
I think my husband is in favor of this diagnosis because then he can blame all of his bad behavior on this disorder and thus not be accountable or responsible for himself.
It is absolutely driving me insane. We are either fighting because of his narcissistic behavior or we are building up to a fight. The worst is that i can't get through to him how this effects me - as if he cared! That's what i am learning -he doesn't care. He says he does and oh how he waxes poetically but there is no action to his words. He talks it, but he doesn't walk it. To the contrary, when it comes down to choosing himself or me - it's always him.
Just this week he threw me under the bus, not one, but twice with the IC - all so that he could look good in the eyes of the IC and so that i would look bad. And so it goes...when does it stop?
Naomi it can stop anytime. The control and the decision is yours not his.
Stand up for yourself, exert your boundaries and have consequences if he steps over them.
It may be that the only way you can control it is to walk away and be responsible for only yourself. Either way if you want it to stop you can make it happen.
Hi Kid,
I can't walk away. I can't leave. In June, we became the guardians of a young man suffering from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. He is mentally handicapped as a result. He lives with us now. He used to live with his grandparents but his grandfather died 3 years ago and his grandmother was diagnosed earlier this year with cancer and given 6 months to 2 years to live. She is too ill to take care of him which is why he lives with us now. And because he is here, i have to stay.
I just feel as tho i am handing myself over to my husband, and willingly allowing him to abuse me in whatever way he desires. And i have no choice but to let him. He won't stop. And when he gets over his anger, then he apologizes and thinks his apologies will undo all the damage he has created in me. But no amount of sorries from him will stop him the next time he gets angry at me. And he is angry because according to him, i am not handling the knowledge of his affairs in the way he thinks i should which is to just get over it and move on.
Naomi,
I think you are so overwhelmed by your situation that you are not seeing the forest for the trees. The fact that you have become guardians for a young man with a mental handicap does not mean you have to bury yourself in your dysfunctional relationship with your husband. There are solutions: talk to social services and check out group homes, or ask to be let go from guardianship altogether. I don't know the story behind your taking him in and you may be very attached to him... but you could still visit and help from a different position, one that would allow you to move on for yourself.
Naomi, your WS is a person who will end up squeezing you dry emotionally and then stomp on you to boot. You have to stand up for yourself... and if that means leaving him, get your ducks in a row. Prepare for it and then DO IT. Take care of you first, then you can take care of others.
Wishing you all the best and stay strong!
Diane
One of my favorite quotes, (and my "signature) It helped me through it all and it helpr keep me strong and on the path I want to be on. I hope it helps you
My will shall shape the future. Whether I fail or succeed shall be no man's doing but my own. I am the force; I can clear any obstacle before me or I can be lost in the maze. My choice; my responsibility; win or lose, only I hold the key to my destiny. ~Elaine Maxwell~
My will shall shape the future. Whether I fail or succeed shall be no man's doing but my own. I am the force; I can clear any obstacle before me or I can be lost in the maze. My choice; my responsibility; win or lose, only I hold the key to my destiny. ~Elaine Maxwell~
Diane,
The young man whom we have guardianship of has no place else to go if i leave. We pulled him out from having to go to a group home as that is what the state had for him. There is no one in his family who wants him - they can't be bothered.
I am ashamed to admit that i never had a heart for the mentally handicapped but God changed my heart when this young man came into our lives and now i can honestly tell you that i love him like a son. As with my biological children, i will do everything i can to be the best "mom" to him -even if that means i sacrifice myself for him. I'm not trying to be a martyr here but for those mothers out there, you know what i am talking about.
Yes, i am completely overwhelmed by this situation because i just can not fathom a human being continuing to act this way when they know the heartache and devastation they are doing. He is a monster who won't quit because he doesn't want to and that is a very very tough reality to have to deal with.
"Naomi, your WS is a person who will end up squeezing you dry emotionally and then stomp on you to boot." Diane - he already has and i just have to lay down and let him do it.
I'm a slow learner. It's taken me 40 years to realize all of this. I kept believing his stories - that he was sorry and that he was trying to change. His only sorrow is when he gets caught and he has never had a desire to change. I am trying to move on, even tho i am in the same household. This is going to be a major life change for me - can we say 40 years???? But this is what has been dealt to me and tho i have resisted and rebelled against, i lost and so it's time to move on.
Thanks for your help and kind words Diane.
Chris thanks for your help too. Really, HH is a great place for me because of all the people who are willing to read my story and respond.
You are a very loving woman. I can understand your not wanting to abandon this young man. May I suggest that you at least consider talking to a divorce attorney about what your rights are and what would happen to you and this young man if you were to divorce.
Talking to an attorney doesn't mean that you have to take any further action, but doing so just might help you to understand better all possibilities.
I'm actually relieved to see some other posts that suggest the same thing I was going to say to you Naomi. I wrote a nice long post and then erased it because it came out all wrong and I didn't want to offend or upset you.
Naomi you may feel overwhelmed and like you don't have a choice, but that in itself is a choice. You have made a decision to put the obstacles of staying aside, just as you can make a decision to put the obstacles of leaving behind you.
I have to wonder how healthy it is for this child to be raised in a home that obviously has a very dysfunctional relationship. I know we all like to think our kids aren't affected, but children have eyes and ears and they see and hear way more than we like them too no matter how hard we try.
Just wondering how you would feel if this child suddenly started treating others like your H treats you and started acting like your H. Would sacrificing yourself be worth it then?
I urge you also to talk to a lawyer and find out exactly what your legal rights are with respect to this child. Can you take him and raise him on your own? etc.
Have you ever considered that having this guardian relationship is a good way for your H to ensure you stay enchained in a relationship that doesn't fulfill you? Manipulation such as this wouldn't be too far off for somebody with his character.
Seperation is never easy and we will always find an excuse as to why it can't happen until something gets to a point of no return. I call it the "ah ha" moment. I hope you find your ah ha moment or things start to get better. I don't wish divorce on anybody, but it is better than the alternative (being together but alone and unhappy).
Thank you FF and Kid for your help and concern. I really do appreciate it.
I realize the battle is really with myself and my mindsets. And it's true, i have not reached that "ah ha" moment. I'm coming close to it but i know i have not reached it yet.
It's a process and i think each time my h. demonstrates his selfishness and narcissistic ways, i get one step closer into freeing myself from this prison that i am living in.
And i am concerned about what influence all of this is having on our "son" - as i like to refer to him as. It isn't a healthy environment for any of us. Our youngest son just moved home too - he is 23.
I have to force myself into forging a new life for myself and that is going to be very difficult as i have been with my husband for 41 years - 6 dating, 35 married. But i have to do it and i can't allow him to pull me back into this.
Hi Naomi - I read a book several years ago called "The Art of Loving" by Erich Fromm. In the book it described a personality type like your H's. This type has typically had a mother who has indulged the child so it 'grows up' with the idea that it can do what it likes (usually a male child) without any moral considerations - It becomes all about successful conquest and sex is seen as love. As you describe this type of man is not able to reach deep inside himself and so is not able to form deep relationships. I found this very insightful as this seemed to really fit the bill for my wife's lover - and his wife also confirmed the fit and requested that he go off to therapy as a result of reading the book. Also, as someone else has commented to you this type of personality is likely to choose others of similar nature to engage in for illicit relationships. I have spent a lot of time trying to understand my wife in this regard and found her also to be incapable of deep relationship, despite what I had hoped for and "seen" in her (my projection).
The book I mention is a bit old fashioned and was written before many of the new diagnoses - But it did have some important insights for me - not only the one I mention but some others too, which were a bit more optimistic and helpful for me. As BB says, however, Fromm also points out that such personality types are the last ones to believe they have a problem and therefore the last ones to seek meaningful therapy.
may you be safe and well, contented and happy
This message has been edited by JerryBond on Dec 20, 2009 3:00 AM
Dear Jerry,
Thanks for your response. I'll have to look into getting that book. Hopefully Amazon will have it.
What i am reading now about how a narcissist becomes a narcissist is like you said - a mother who over indulged. However some in the field also believe one becomes that way because of a mother - or father - or both - who NEVER indulged and i think that is what happened to my h.
These types of parents withhold all nurturing and all emotional support. They never connect or bond with the child and don't allow the child to connect or bond with them. Thus the child becomes emotionally starved and so looks to others to fill that void.
Also, when a baby is born, they are born narcissists - it's all about meeting their needs. However as the baby grows and matures, that narcissistc nature begins to disappear as the child engages into their world. With a narcissist, that doens't happen, they don't mature. They remain stuck in their infantile narcissism.
Hey, don't misunderstand, I am NOT the expert here - these are just things that i have begun to read. All of it fits my husband.
The biggest sign of a narcissist is the lack of empathy. And i have been saying for 3 years since D-Day that my husband still doesn't "get it". Now i am learning why - he lacks empathy.
Yes, Naomi - I reckon you are the expert. And I agree so much with the empath/ feeling bit. Being on the same wave-length is lovely isn't it. Fromm talks about how important it is to love and trust yourself so you can love others. I don't know if this is something that can easily be built later in life - It certainly is not easy. I have found that my wife still struggles with this and she falls back into a kind of dependent attitude towards me which is her way of loving me - She was most certainly unloved by both her parents - I thought I could give what she needed but it didn't work.
may you be safe and well, contented and happy - I wish you well this season and beyond
My mother is very much about herself. As a child I was frequently abused (beaten with a stick, yelled at, etc) by my mom. I always felt like she never wanted me and couldn't understand why she bothered having me and keeping me.
My sister was never treated like this. She is 4 years older.
She has always witheld affection and still to this day does. When I had my first bad MS relapse in June she couldn't even be bothered to call to see if I was okay. She knows i'm in a city with nobody else and no support. That means nothing to her. Yet if she does any tiny little thing for either me or my sister she brags about it and makes such a big deal about it to the people she knows. I'd call them her friends, but really I don't think she has any.
I know what it is like to try and break out of a bad cycle. I left home at 17 and ended up moving in with a guy who got his kicks throwing me through closet doors, but then would be the perfect boyfriend and apologize profusely swearing it would never happen again. Only until it happened again.
Naomi you do what is best for you. Focus on trying to heal yourself right now. If your H comes on board with that, then fine. If he doesn't you will be so much stronger for it.
Hi Jerry,
My husband is very dependent on me - for his narcissistic supply. He confuses that with love - well i should say, he tries to deceive me into thinking that he loves me when the truth is, all i am good for is to supply his need for compliments, building his self-esteem, making him feel good about himself.
I have threatened him this week with taking that away and consequently, he is very anxious. When he confessed his affairs -he made the mistake of confessing that he is addicted to women. His work place used to provide him with all the women he needed - but he was let go of that job 3 years ago. At the place he works now, several people know about the affairs and about his addiction - which means, he can't flirt with the women and emotionally bond with them like he is used to so his narcissistic supply has been cut dramatically.
And if i distance myself from him -then he has no other source for his supply.
As with your wife, my husband was unloved. But then so was I. Infact, one of the things my h. and i have discussed is that i had far more reasons to commit adultery than he did. Not only did i grow up in an emotionally abusive environment, that continued even after i got married. No time during my life have i had any self-esteem. To the contrary with my husband. He was part of the National Honor Society, was on Student Council, voted Most Friendly in higschool, won an atheletic scholarship for college, graduated summa cum laude - and the list goes on and on as to his accomplishments. By the time he met me, he had already had over half a dozen girlfriends -and we met when we were 16! He knew women were attractive to him. On the home front, he had me pouring into him. Always there to support him, encourage him, love him. I had none of that, not ever.
I knew my husband had been unloved by his parents and like you, i thought i could supply all the love he needed. And i did! I loved him, supported him. I was his biggest fan - but it wasn't enough.
Kid i am so sorry to hear about your mother. I simply do not understand a mother who withholds love from their child. Honestly, i can not fathom that.
You know, here's the deal. I grew up with a mother who withheld herself emotionally from me, all the while as she emotionally abused me as well. By the time i was a teen ager, i knew what emotional pain was. From then on i have had a burden for hurting women. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back here but if i had wanted, i could have grown up just as narcissistic and self-centered as my husband. But i didn't! I wanted to help people, not the other way around.
I highly reccomend a book for all involved with Narcissits...
Narcisstistic Lovers: Hope to Cope, Recover, and Move On
By Cynthia Zayn and Kevin Dibble, M.S.
Excerpt from the book;
"When you reach this point of self realization, heed this advice:
Let your accomplishments whisper your validation. Sometimes we get caught up in what we are not,
that we forget what we are. Once you realize that you don't need to be validated by someone else,
you begin to break the chains that bind you to your abuser."
I was just given back a really good book on narcissism by my IC. I read the book and felt it was extremely helpful. In my opinion it was right on target. So I asked my IC to read it and give me his thoughts. I went into his office last week and said "I dont' understand why my ex is still doing this or that or saying this or that, or acting in a certain way". My IC looked at me, pulled the book out of his desk, handed it back to me and said "This is why, and maybe you should re-read this". I laughed. I knew he was right. He said it was a very good book, "Now read the title to me, what does it say?". I said "Narcissitic Lovers: How to cope, recover, and move on". He said what phase do you think you are in. I said recovery. He said you can only recover if you have already coped. I thought I had coped...but if I was asking "why" my ex does this or that, then obviously I haven't. Sure I "know" he is NPD, but he is so charming and a superb liar and manipulator that I sometimes forget. Well, I feel it is good to revisit books that have helped you. Sometimes I read books two or three times before it all sinks in. So today I started to re-read the book...I glanced through and noted all the parts I highlighted, as I knew those were the parts that really hit on the issues for me, even if I do not read the whole thing. It really isnt that big of a book, less thsn 200 pages. I read it the firt time in two days.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
I tell ya...the minute my IC handed me back that book, I immediately realized "why" I had taken a step back, which wass why I laughed. Narcissits know how to draw you back in, and I realized he had been doing this exact samething throughout the marriage. Then I felt stronger!!! I just needed a little reminder
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
