I had been looking for the OWH tonight to verify information and tried to find out more about the OW to see their was still any connection. I was having a difficult time finding the OWH and thought their might be some clues if I could locate her. Which I did, but in no way would I say anything to her. I have no desire to talk or see this person and that is why I wrote the message earlier to Jan.
It made me sick to my stomach to even see her face so many years later. Smiling like she was so happy, probably with never a thought given to all the pain that she had caused so many people.
The point of my anger is this! I had finished dinner and after feeling so upset after seeing her face, I went in and wrote Jan a quick message. My H asked me what I was doing and I told him, "I was telling a friend a reason not to try and get in touch with the other person, as it can really upset you." I told him what I had done, he knew that I was looking for the OWH to calibrate his story and I told him that it made me sick to my stomach to see her face again and would have liked to wipe the smile off her face. I told him, "Don't you go on FB and try and see her, as I don't want you to, as she has already destroyed a lot of our life." We ate dinner, he was on the lap top and I saw him looking on FB and again, I asked him, you aren't going on FB to look for her, are you?" He said, No he wasn't.
So, we both went in the kitchen to clean it, but then he disappeared. I went towards his office and their he was on his computer, he saw me, tried to hide the FB site from me. I asked him a direct question as to what he was doing and he lied to me. I confronted him about it and told him, "I know what your doing!" He said, "He wanted to be sure that I had not sent her a message and that's he was looking on FB." I told him, why would he care if I had sent her a message? It was none of his business, I had already told him that I had not sent one to her and he went behind my back to see if I had. Was he trying to protect her, I asked? He told me that he had no idea what I might have said, so I replied, if I had he shouldn't care.
I told him, I don't LIE to you, unlike what you just did. You've shown me again that you are no different, you can't be trusted, you still sneak behind my back and when confronted, you look me in the eye and lie just like you did 27 yrs. ago.
Why can't he understand that it hurts me for him to see her? Why would he care even if I had sent her a message, she has no control over me now? I wouldn't contact her anyway, it would be to upsetting for me. Why doesn't he get any of that and why does he lie when our marriage is already in so much trouble right now? I just don't understand, we are skating on thin ice and we both know that we might be getting a divorce, as things are so bad right now?
He reminded me that I had talked to her before and seen her and I told him, "Yes I did, you knew about it, gave me her phone number and all that happened because you wouldn't tell me anything." So I didn't keep anything from you back then, you knew when I saw her and talked to her. What does that have to do with anything anyway? This is about you going behind my back and doing something I asked you not to and then directly lying to me about it.
So now while I am writing this, he comes in here and tries to apologize, but he qualifies it with, he felt he had a right to know what I might be writing about him to the OW. He thought that maybe I wasn't being honest with him, when I told him that I was writing a note on HH and he thought that I was writing something to her. He didn't believe me, so I asked him, do I ever lie to you? I told you what I had done and now you are accusing me of lying to my face. He said, "I know that you don't lie, but I thought you might have this time, because you wouldn't want me to know." I re-emphazied to him, I have never lied to you in my life and I never will. I've been honest with my lack of feelings for you, even though it hurts me to say that and I only do that when you push me in a corner with the question. He then felt that I should be more honest with my feelings and I told him that I had, but why say something to deliberately hurt you, when you already know that I have mixed feelings, that would be cruel?
So, needless to say, he understands now that he shouldn't have done what he did. At least he understands that he shouldn't have done it and that he has slipped. That is a step in the right direction, but it still hurts that he would be concerned about what I might have said to her. That I don't understand!
Thanks for listening, I don't know what I would do without all of you here. I know he gets so mad that I am on here, he just said so again. He feels that I shouldn't be talking about him to strangers, that some one might find out who we are and that wouldn't be good. I told him, this wonderful place has helped me so much and I feel that I can help others. It's like keeping a journal, which is what my therapist have told me to do. HH is like a journal to me, I can write how I'm feeling, the wonderful people on here, listen, offer advice and I look at it as a healing place. I trust everyone on here, even though he thinks this site is not good for me, which I don't agree with at all. It's where I come if I need help or someone else needs a hug or advice. We are all here to help each other.
God Bless,
LindaT
I am so dam+ angry right now, I just don't know what to do. He knows how I feel, but he didn't care enough about me not to do it, just like 27 yrs. ago.
Am I remembering correctly that your H has NPD? If so, IMO, you should just step back and think about what that means: that he is concerned with how other people think about him. If he has NPD, he isn't thinking about you or about FOW. No, he is just concerned with how others view him.
Sad, isn't when you think about it--to be so wrapped up in how others might perceive him that he is willing to sacrifice his marriage to maintain his idea of his image.
I am sorry you are hurting. As always, his A was ALL about him and not about you or OW.
Yes, he definitely has NPD, been diagnosed by 3 or more therapist. He also keeps falling back on his Mom that gave him everything, being adopted, his selfishness, etc.
It is sad, that he had to sneak behind my back to see if I had written anything to the OW, even though I told him that I had written something to share with someone on HH.
He was so concerned about what was written, that if it was about him that she still knew people where he use to work (that was 25 yrs. ago) and the word might get around. I told him, that during his 3 yr. A, a lot of people at work knew about the A and it sure didn't stop him from doing it then, so what in the he+l was the difference? So, does my question make any sense? Why no concern then, but now there is? Self-confidence, as he knows that I am not sure of my feelings for him?
Was I so wrong in getting so angry that he was even thinking about checking to see what I might have written to her? Wasn't it my business if I did? I told him twice, not to try and see her on FB, I didn't want him looking at her face, as it would hurt me for him to do that. It hurt me and also made me angry to see how happy she looked, 2 marriages later after the divorce and we are trying to keep our's together. She looked so pretty with her blond hair (of course I don't know when the picture was taken, it could be 5 yrs. old, I hope (-:? and that pretty smile. He use to tell me, years ago, after we got married that he always thought that he would marry a petite, blood haired girl and that's what she was. I have dark brown hair and green eyes and am 5'6". He didn't say this to be mean, don't even know how it came up, but it was ironic that she is the one that he had an A with.
I feel that we have really went backwards after tonight. He deliberately what I asked him not to and then lied to me, right to my face. He says that he slipped up and will keep trying harder.
Thanks for reminding me, that his A's were about him, not me or the OW. He just as much said that this afternoon. He did it because it made him feel good, he wasn't in it to marry her, she made him feel good about himself with her flattery. She didn't have the qualities in her that he would have ever married her, so it was all about the excitement he got from it and the new attention. It still hurts that he didn't give me much thought and I'll never understand why their was no remorse afterwards. He doesn't remember why he didn't show any, except to tell me this afternoon that he's never been an emotional person, didn't show things outwardly. Also, if he didn't discuss the A he felt that it would just be forgotten and would go away. Boy, was he wrong, it came back 27 yrs. later.
Thank you for being here for me tonight, it's very much appreciated. It's been a rough 3 days.
You should not be trying to contact the OWH, it is not fair to make him relive the pain of his wifes betrayal, particularly after 27 years. I tend to take your Hs side on this, although I do not support his lying in anyway. If it were me, I would want to know what you were doing and would have checked also. But again, I would not have lied about it.
Maintaining contact with OW just gives her power and transmits the message that she is important to your H. She isn't.
Linda, people put up all sorts of crap in their FB pages that isn't true. Some people are honest, but many use their pages as a way to stroke their own egos. "Look at me! I'm successful! I'm beautiful! I'm popular! I'm wealthy! I'm happy!" But just posting flattering photos and giddy posts doesn't mean those are a reflection of real life.
More important is that you stop focussing on OW and focus on getting Linda healed.
I am sorry you are hurting. I understand that you want your H to be the man you want him to be, but he isn't, and he may never have been and may never be. He may not be capable of being that man. IMO, you need to forgive yourself for expecting him to be someone he doesn't seem to be capable of being.
I hope you have a better day. Try to stay in the NOW.
I respect your opinion on no contact with the BS, but sometimes I think their are circumstances that do warrant it. I know that you aren't going to agree with me and I knew that from before.
The OWH told me after he send me the love letters, along with his note telling me the A was still going on, that he wished he had never sent it. He didn't mean to hurt me with it and should have went to my H office and punched his lights out, instead.
If he has information to answer and prove what he told me, I really don't feel that he would mind setting the issue, once and for all. If he doesn't want to talk to me, he won't and that will be it. He's moved on, I think he's re-married but not sure, but an e-mail or phone call from me isn't going to end his life. If I wanted to be selfish, he made a very adamant statement about this A still going on and I was told different by both his W and my H, so I don't want to go to my grave not knowing if I am still living my life with a major lie.
With all due respect, I do not feel my H had any rights to go on my FB, which he isn't on and try and read any of my private messages to anyone. Especially, when I specifically asked him twice not to do so. That's invasion of my privacy and after what we've been through, him worrying about what I might have written to the OW was an insult to me, as he shouldn't care. My feelings should have come first and he should have respected them. What I say to her (and I didn't send her a message, which I told him and wouldn't have) is my business and it would have been private.
I told him what I was doing, writing HH, but he didn't believe me and as I pointed out to him, "I have never lied to you and I haven't."
He then lied about what he was doing and then tried to hide it on the computer, so as far as I'm concerned he can't be trusted, so we are right back where we started months ago.
I appreciate your input, not trying to be difficult, just have my own opinions on what I need to heal and move on, one way or the other.
I am not maintaining any contact with the OW. I have no desire to do so, haven't, did not want to see her face and was upset to see her and if I had known by clicking on FB that her face would have shown up, I wouldn't have clicked on it. Did you think from my post that I was trying to maintain contact with her? Because I sure wasn't and wouldn't, as I told my lying H when he went behind my back to try and see if I had written anything bad about himself to her. That really burned me up, as I told him twice not to try and find her, as it hurt me enough just to see her face.
I know that people put a lot of crap on their FB page, her's was just a picture of a profile, with her grandson. Nothing else, nothing more. Yes, she looked pretty and happy. Do, I know for sure if she is, based on that one picture, No I don't. I just didn't enjoy looking at her smiling from ear to ear, based on the pain she has caused me and our life. So, hopefully she isn't that happy, I'll never know and really don't care. She has to live with what she did.
I can't emphasize enough, this OW is not who I am focusing on. I don't think about her, as it makes me to angry and it hurts to still think about her. I was trying to locate her ex-husband and thought I might see some clues as to where he might be. The only reason for checking her out.
I know I should be focusing on my own healing and part of that is finding out the truth and then I can move on. I just can't seem to find the answers so that I can.
Yes, I am hurting and I know you understand. Yes, I wish he could be the person that I thought I married, but I know he's not and after last night, because he still looks me in the eye and lies and tries to cover it up. He told me this morning, that a person can't be honest all the time and I told him, yes they can if they have character. I don't lie to you and you darn sure don't lie to me. We've been there so much and I'm not going to deal with it much longer.
He's made a lot of changes in the past few months, like not drinking, but when I talk to him, he still talks in circles and you can't get him to give you an honest answer and if he does, you still don't know if he's saying what he truly means. I don't think that he is capable of being the person that I want to be married to. I just have to make that decision if I want to stay with him or not?
I hear you, with your statement of forgiving myself for expecting him to be what he can't be. But I don't know if I need to forgive myself for that, as I realize that he is who he is. This isn't the man that I married and if he is, he hid his true self really well.
It's so hard for me to live in the moment, as I don't know if that moment is based on lies. I do it sometimes and other times, I can't.
I hope my day is better also, but I don't feel that it is right now, but maybe it will get better.
Like you Linda, I felt like I should have the right to contact the OW or she owed me time, attention, and answers if I wanted them from her. I think I got some well meaning advice here about that and stood my ground about being able to contact her.
I would suggest to my H I wanted to contact her and then wait for his reaction. It was unfair because it was a test that he would always fail. Agree with contacting her and he was supporting me getting hurt, disagree and I would wonder why. What are you wanting to keep from me that she will share.
It was horrible for both of us and only supported an environment of fear and mistrust.
I am no angel. I still get a bug up my a** and check OW's FB page. I get upset, I sulk and mentally beat myself up. I look to H for comfort and he shakes his head at my self abuse. But i know it is all me and the times I leave her out of it are so much better between my H and I...we already have enough to get irritated at each other about regarding the A without opening up things by discussing the real or imagined happiness of the OW.
For the sake of your sanity, please stop setting landmines for the two of you.
I need to get this straightened out and maybe you didn't read my other post? I wasn't trying to contact the OW, nor do I ever want to. I never want to see her face again and when I went on FB to see if their was any information in regards to her former H and how I could find him, their was a "Profile" picture of her. That was all that was on there and just seeing her was very upsetting to me. I DON'T WANT TO SEE THE OW FACE EVER AGAIN, don't care what she is doing, etc.
Now, getting back to when the A happened, I didn't want to see her then either. That only came about because my WH wouldn't confirm things about the A, even when I would show him proof, he would lie. I told him that I was going to have to get in touch with the OW, since he kept lying to me, which I did call her and she agreed to meet me twice. He told me to go ahead and do it and even gave me her phone #, so he was aware of what I was doing. It was awful sitting next to her in my car in a parking lot, right next to where they use to go for lunch, close to his office. She actually touched me, I wanted to throw up, as I was trying to be nice to her to pump her for information to collaborate his story. He didn't seem to mind me talking to her, which still makes me wonder to this day if they were still in touch with each other and getting their stories straight?
Why else would she meet in the car and restaurant with me, I sure wouldn't have and also spend time on the phone with me answering questions? It doesn't add up in my mind?
>
This wasn't our situation, he encouraged me to contact her, pretty much said, "He didn't care and go ahead and call her." So, I think our situations were a little different but I could be very wrong.
I didn't want to contact the OW, it gave me panic attacks even seeing her. I had been taken to her home on Christmas, saw her in bowling alley's flirting with him and he took her and her H out for drinks, with me along. I knew what she looked like, remembered being with her and not knowing their was an A going on, so the last thing I wanted to do was to see her and get answers from her. I was a nervous wreck, as I'm sure everybody is, so being alone with her wasn't my idea of fun. I just needed some answers to his lies that he refused to even talk about. I got a lot, but I sure didn't want to.
I won't ever go back on that page, I don't want to see her face. Yes, unintentionally it did set up a landmine, but I sure didn't mean for it to. If he hadn't tried to go on FB and check out me writing her, which I told him I didn't, we wouldn't have had the blow-up again.
I do appreciate your concern, Louise. I will try and be more careful in the future.
My assumption is that OWs husband did not think that his invitation would be taken up 20 plus years later. You are right we will have to agree to disagree. I just want you to know that this may possibly cause him pain that could have been avoided.
Transparency is essential in a marriage. I hide nothing from my H, including this board. This is not about what he does, but what I believe should be done. I cannot expect transparency from my H without first giving it myself.
I still hope that you will allow a counselor to help you in individual counseling. I really feel this is what you need even b4 MC.
Hi Linda,
It's obvious from your postings that 27 years later, you are still struggling with your husband's betrayal. You don't have to defend that.
My suggestion is that before you do anything else - before you confront your husband, before you seek out the OW's ex-husband, before you make another move or say another word, you seek out the council of a good IC. You need an understanding of why, 27 years later, you are still experiencing these emotions, these questions. A good IC should help you sort through all of this. They should help you understand the root of these feelings, questions, confusions, etc. And a good IC should help you heal from the past and give you tools to move you into the future.
After that, after you have sorted out all of this with the IC and you are able to make a decision not based on emotions, then with the guidance of the IC, if you still feel the need to confront your husband and get these questions answered by the OWH, then proceed.
I did just that a few years ago. I wanted to talk to the OW, not to confront her or condemn her, but to get information from her because my husband's answers were always "I don't know, I don't remember." I came here on HH and everyone recommended that I not contact the OW. Eventually I went to my IC and sought her advise. I promised her that I would not contact the OW unless I had her approval. After months of talking to my IC, she felt that it would not do any harm in contacting the OW and so I did.
My whole point here is that I feel your issues need to be discussed with the IC and then after all of these are worked out and you have an understanding of them and are on the road to recovery, if at that time, the IC feels it would be advantageous to your healing and moving on, then confront your H and the OWH.
I know it's hard to both be on different pages on this and I do respect your opinion and see where your coming from, so I appreciate you agreeing to disagree.
I'm sure he didn't and if I ever do reach him, I sure won't push anything on him. It will be up to him if he wants to talk to me or not. I wasn't thinking over 4 yrs. ago, during this rough patch, that I would ever being thinking about any of this A again and trying to decide my life at my age? I seriously don't want to cause him pain and if he does contact me and if I do find him, I will tell him that and the decision to talk, like I said, will be up to him. I only met him twice, once in his home at Christmas and the other in a cocktail lounge where my WH set it up, even though I didn't understand why? Now I know!
Ami, I have no problem with my H reading anything that I post on here. I even print things out that I feel will help him or us for him to read. Their isn't anything that I have said here, that he hasn't heard from me.
My anger over going on FB and asking him not to, was I didn't want him to see her face again. I sure didn't know that when I clicked on a web link that I would see her and it was so painful for me and brought all the anger to the surface about the A again.
That's why I asked him to not go on FB and see her, as I held both of them responsible for screwing up our lives and I didn't even want him to see her face again. I asked him to do that out of respect for me and my feelings. She had caused enough trouble in my life already and I would have told him the same thing if I had seen her in a restaurant.
If that had happened, I would have said, "Please don't turn around, she is right behind us and I would hope that you wouldn't look at the person that had a part in causing us so much pain." I would hope that he would respect my wishes right then. That would be the least he could do, if I asked him.
The same was true in honoring my wish to not go on FB and see her face, I had asked him not to as it had brought everything back again. IT HURT TO SEE HER, so why would I want him to look at this sl++ who had caused us so much turmoil in our lives?
Then he compounded it by lying and trying to hide the screen from me. He says that he is working on trust in our relationship, but he was more concerned that I was lying to him and had sent her a message, probably about him and that it might get back to where he had worked? He was totally thinking about doing again, what he wanted, not what I had asked nicely for him not to do and then tried to hide it from me. You don't build respect and a marriage back by doing those things.
I totally agree and am in the process right now of looking for a new one, a woman this time for IC.
Thanks again for being our moderator, you are appreciated. I do think something is wrong with our site, as I keep getting a big yellow triangle sign that tells me the site isn't working? Then if you click again on either checking what you have addressed to me or me trying to slick on response to anyone, the triangle appears, but sometimes if you click twice he will take what you have written. This all started happening last night. Thought you might want to know this, as Pat said she had issues and thinks she might have accidentally erased one of my post.
My father cheated on my mother with a teacher he worked with. When their relationship started to send up red flags for my mother she confronted my father who voluntarily set up a breakfast with the three of them so that the OW could look my mother in the eye and tell her she was just a good friend of my father.
Why would OW agree to meet? In most cases its too continue to prove they did nothing wrong, but also to make them look like the bigger person the adult and you are the child that can't handle adult emotions and relationships. It is ridiculous but they think these things, sincerely.
Why would your H agree to let you call her? I am sure you are right that they were in contact. My H did it. For a year and a half if I ever tried to contact OW, he would ask me not to, but he knew me well enough to know I would anyway and knew she knew that I was to be lied to and what the story would be. LIke I said he never knew if he was supposed to say sure contact her I will support your hunt for answers or no please don't it will only upset you when she blows you off with answers you don't like. So he would always flounder moments like this.
One thing I did learn was that it was not fair of me to look at her page or do any kind of hunting for her. I would end up in a bad mood, my H would come home from work and I would start a fight about this horrible person he drug into our lives. I am sure from his point of view if was horrible coming home from work and being attacked unexpectedly. It can be equally traumaziting for WS if they never know when you are going to blow. That is why it is important to learn how to manage your feelings. It is OK to get angry but do not take it out on you WS that you looked her up and upset yourself.
I know you feel disrespected. I am sorry for that, but it is also not fair to place expectations on your H, even if you feel they are what you would do. He is not you. Sometimes you can tell someone not to look and they still look. The way people are morbid and look at accidents. It is human. I am not religious but look at the guy who turned into a pilar of salt.. he loved God, God loved him but he looked because he was human not because he didn't love God.
I would not suggest that you wanted to talk to her, but even poking around where you might see her is setting up a land mine.
I agree with the others that you need IC. I am so sorry you are in such pain Linda.
Take care.
I'll try and make this brief as I am so tired right now.
First, am I'm not trying to defend myself, I wasn't struggling with the 27 yr. old past till 4 years ago and I've explained why that happened. I went for 15 years, never looking at letters, thinking of contacting her OWH and only having some flashbacks when I would see certain things that would trigger a memory. So, most of it was out of my mind for many years.
I had one good counselor and I know we aren't suppose to worry about what it cost, but Wow, we had our out of network therapy totally wrong. My H is very good about understanding these things, so we knew that the Insurance would pay 70% of out of network expenses on a counselor. Well mine charged $200 an hour, still not sure if he was the one but I don't think so now. Anyway, our insurance will pay 70% of reasonable and customary and that was only $85. So, needless to say, that's ridiculous! I can't tell you how much we owe him right now and I don't think he was worth it. I asked the questions and he had no answers. So tomorrow, I'll start looking again, in our network.
But back to what you are saying, naomi. I do agree that these past 4 yrs. have brought my whole life back to me and how I didn't like so much of it, including the A. So many questions, why did I stay, can't forgive myself, etc. I honestly think that I do have PTSD now and that's why it doesn't take much to trigger a very strong reaction to things.
Yes, a GOOD counselor should be able to help me, finding the right one is another story. It gets so darn frustrating, you think you have found the right one, only to find out you haven't. I sure didn't have that issue 27 yrs. ago, except that I do think she should have focused on other more important things and it shouldn't have taken 5 yrs. of therapy from her.
I get your point in what your saying and the one counselor that I liked felt that my H should answer my questions as I had to many open wounds and I wasn't going to heal until he validated my pain and helped me fill in the open spots. I saw her three times and our insurance was such a pain, she didn't want to deal with it anymore.
My H and I aren't talking about this all the time, it comes up every now and then, but I can't hide my un-happiness from him and that is the issue. Neither one of us are happy with each other. It doesn't take much for us to fly off the handle, so putting everything on a shelf until I talk with a counselor, not sure if that is the answer? I hear where your coming from, but this is one un-happy home, you know what that feels like, just as others on here do. The tension comes and goes and it's so hard living that way.
I was doing the exercising, etc. and I felt good about that. Then we have had blow ups for the past 3 days, not sure why and I haven't been back to the gym again, which disappoints me in myself.
I'll think about what your saying and look for the counselor tomorrow, I pray that I can find one soon. Then maybe I can get some of those answers you are referring to and find some peace again.
Hi Linda,
I think you are missing my point. All of this has not worked for you. You are still in the same place you have been. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. In other words, it's time to try something new.
No doubt, it is going to take time. You need an IC who will help you sort through all of this. After you do, then if you need to talk to the OWH and/or feel the need to confront your husband, then go for it.
Until then, set the rules, draw up the boundaries that will protect you. Decide on how you are going to act and react.
You can't control what other people say and do. You can control how you deal with it.
Does that mean you will be free of pain and heartache? No. What you need to realize is that in these situations with your husband, he is going to react the way he always has. Why does that continue to surprise you? If you know he is going to do this to you - and you know he is - then why do you set yourself up for this kind of treatment from him?
All of your crying, begging, confronting is not going to change him. To the contrary, it is doing harm to yourself. Why are you doing that to yourself? You know he is going to ignore your cries, why give him the chance to continue that behavior?
I am sorry that this is going to sound harsh but it is you who is hurting you and not your husband. You know he is going to treat you this way, but you continue to give him that opportunity. Does that make sense? Ponder that before you react and ask the Lord for wisdom on this.
"One cold and windy winter morning a little boy was playing in the woods. Walking down a path, he came upon a snake. It was stretched across the trail and frozen solid like a broom stick. The boy picked up the snake and ran with it all the way home.
Once home, the boy warmed the snake by the fire. He fed it. He watered it. Slowly, over a few days, the snake regained its health. As soon as the snake was 100%, it coiled up and struck out, biting the little boy. As the boy lay dying, he managed to gasp a final question to the snake. Snake I found you dying, I loved you, fed you and this is how you repay me?! The snake coldly replied When you picked me up you knew I was a snake.
The moral of the story: Be careful when dealing with people that you know to be problematic. Never let your ego get in the way. People will not change their root behaviors simply because they are dealing with you."
Again, think about this. Pray about it. Ask the Lord to give you revelation.
I understand a lot of your points and they are well made. I'm having to type this on the I-pad, which takes me forever. I'll answer you later today when I can type it better. I like the snake story, Naomi, never heard it before.
Off to bed, maybe I'll get more than 5 hrs. Sleep tonight for a change. H had results of his important hood work early in the morning. He wants me to go with him, so I said I would.
Take care and thanks for the advice, it's always appreciated.
Linda, if your H were to come to you tomorrow and said
"Linda, I love you and have always loved you. I know I caused you great pain in the past, and I will forever regret causing you that pain. I know I am currently causing you pain but truly I cannot remember the details from 27 years ago to answer you questions. I am so sorry for what I have put you through and will regret it for the rest of my life. Is there anything else I can do to help us heal and go forward? I chose then to spend my life with you and want to spend the rest of my life with you. Linda I love you can you ever forgive me?"
Pretend for a moment that he has told you this and truly means it.
How would that change things for you? Would it change anything for you?
My will shall shape the future. Whether I fail or succeed shall be no man's doing but my own. I am the force; I can clear any obstacle before me or I can be lost in the maze. My choice; my responsibility; win or lose, only I hold the key to my destiny. ~Elaine Maxwell~
I am amazed that so many men in families, like my Dad and your Dad cheat on their wives and then our H's do the same thing. Your Mom was one amazing lady to set that up with your Dad. I wish I had did the same thing with my H and the OW, but not sure if I could stomach seeing them together aster knowing they had been together? I have to hand it to your Mom.
I hear what your saying and you could be right. I feel, in my heart, that they had to have been talking to each other as my H kept lying to me for over 8 months. I don't think that she cared that she hurt me, if she did, it was only a little bit. I think she was trying to give me a story, to take my H off the hook as she knew he wanted to save our marriage and if I knew certain things, I would have ended it. She did love him and was very protective of him, even to the point of defending him to her H about sex, when her H asked if they had sex? She said, "No, we didn't and that's when he came back and said, what he couldn't get it up." She then screamed at him that they did, as she didn't want him to look like a wimp." So, you can see why I'm so mixed up to if they did or didn't?
So, I agree that they were in touch, but he will not admit it, no matter how many times I ask him. Mine would ask me also, not to get in touch with her, then when I said I was going to, as he wouldn't tell me anything, he would get mad and yell at me and tell me to go ahead and do what I want! When I would get back from seeing her, he would want to know what she said? I don't remember if I told him or not, sometimes I would make up something different to see if I could see if he was lying to me. What is a shame is, that we both had to resort to try and find out information because all they would do is lie, even when confronted with evidence, at least on my part. I'm standing their with my arm in a sling, can't hardly walk due to a skin graft for the Melanoma, in pain and he looks me in the face and still lies.
I hear you on the FB, but please understand, I didn't go on FB. I did a google search, clicked on her name and FB popped up and their was her profile picture, nothing else was on there, but that. Like i keep saying, I sure did not want to see her face then or ever again. It's been over 26 yrs. and I have visions of her even to this day, without a picture. I won't be clicking on it again and only did it, trying to find her ex-husband. I know, no one agree's with that. I didn't want to get in a bad mood, so it sure wasn't intentional on my part and it probably raised my blood pressure, sky high. Yes, it was traumatic, but only when he sneaked behind my back to see if I had sent her a message, even though I told him i hadn't. I also told him, which I repeated twice, please don't go on there and look at her. But I've already said all this! That's when everything fell apart drasticly. I didn't get upset with my H and bless him out, because I saw her. He asked me what was wrong and I told him what happened in a pretty calm voice and that's when I told him I didn't like seeing her and I didn't want him to see her face.
I guess we won't agree on his right to look at her and check to see if I wrote her a message. He should have trusted me when I told him that I had written a message to HH, after seeing her picture to help another person not make the mistake that I did. He knows I don't lie to him and after what they put me through, I feel that he should respect my wishes. That's the least he could do, considering he hasn't done anything else to make this A any easier. Yes, he's human, but he's made enough bad choices when it came to her, so this time he could choose not to look. I hear your story about God and the pilar of salt, understand, but I still feel the same way in regards to his looking at the OW.
Yes, I try to keep my temper under control when it comes to her, but sometimes I can't help myself, when I see things on TV that really set me off. Their is so much more on TV now, than their was even 15 yrs. ago.
Thanks for trying to help, Louise. I hope that I can find a counselor with some of the same intelligence that we have on HH.
To hear him say all those things at one time would be very meaningful. I don't feel that I would believe the part about not remembering some of the most important things that I need to know, like when it ended and was he still having an A when I found out?
It wouldn't change me to the point that i could move forward, until I had answers like the one above proved to me. I know he knows that answer and it is strange that the bank statements and calendars from those years are missing. A lot of things that could give me the answers to put my mind at ease and would help me believe him, can't be found now. I would pay a bank to get them for me, but they don't keep them that long. So, it comes down to trusting what he is telling me and between his lies, actions, lack of remorse, I can't believe him, so I am stuck on the top of the fence.
He agreed to be hypnotized to help him remember what I need to know, but he goes back and forth with that. I did it for him, 27 yrs. ago to put the bad memories out of my head, so why can't he do the same to put my mind at ease? Then we could move forward and get on with life.
I'm scared to let go and be vulnerable again, as I was lied to so much and hurt. I don't know what else to say about it Chris. I know everyone is tired of this and so am I. I do hope to find the right therapist to tell me, am I right or wrong in the direction I'm going?
Thanks you for your help, I do appreciate everyone taking time to help me and I feel like I am a burden to others, as i can't seem to do what others want me to do.
Maybe I'm just not all here, right now? I am not sure if who your referring to by the quote below?
"The moral of the story: Be careful when dealing with people that you know to be problematic. Never let your ego get in the way. People will not change their root behaviors simply because they are dealing with you."
Do you mean, my trying to find out things, marrying the person that I did and trying to change him, as I'm sure not doing that one. You can't change a person, they have to want to change, so not sure what you mean. Please explain, if you don't mind so that I can get the message straight.
I will pray for all this, I have been already.
Blessings and have a wonderful Happy Easter!
LindaT
This message has been edited by Memories23 on Apr 4, 2012 5:49 PM
Thank you for you kindness to my mother. I feel I do need to correct you. To her she was not doing anything "brave" she was trusting my father that this OW was really just a friend and to prove it agreed to a breakfast with her. I was a Senior in High school when this happened and so I do not remember all the details, but an event like this would fall under that part of all A stories where the OW and the H lie to convince the BS nothing is going on so that any anxiety they might feel or jealous feelings, will be calmed and then the A can go on without suspicion.
My mother is naturally very friendly as was my father. So it was not abnormal for them to have friends in common. This was my father's way of using my mother's trust of him against her.
As for a pattern of cheating in families, it is not all that uncommon. If you read 'Not just Friends' it is covered. Daughters really do tend to marry men who are in ways, similar to their fathers.
It is not as simple as this, but it is something a good IC will look at when you go so that they can address what your issues are from the beginning.
I know you are reluctant to understand why your H had a right to check Facebook even after you said that you had not messaged her. I do not know everything that has transpired between the two of you that he might not trust you as much as you do not trust him, but if he has feelings of mistrust for you and part of dealing with that is to check then it might have gone a long way to avoid disaster to just check together.
Explain it will hurt you a bit to see her face or to have him see her face so that he knows that you need support while you validate his trust. I understand it might be hard to think about his feelings when you are dealing with so many painful feelings of your own, but when we take a step back to assess everything that is going on in a conflict we can understand one another.
I have an observation. You were upset that even after you asked him not to check he did and lied to you about it. Now, I am not blaming you for this. it was his choice to lie, but lets imagine the rolls were reversed. That for whatever reason you lost trust in your spouse, which can happen in relationships full of conflict, even when an A is not involved. He demands that you not check something, but it nags at your insides to check and because of who you are you check on the sly and then lie if your spouse confronts you. Why did you lie? Because you are in a pickle. IF you tell the truth your H will think you don't love and respect him or want peace between you. if you lie there is a chance they will believe you and peace is maintained.
Do you see what I am getting at? I know it is hard because of the A to separate this conflict from the A and break it down to just you and your H's needs and personality types, but that is what is all roots from.
It can be a difficult concept to grasp and I want you to understand it has nothing to do with ignoring your own feelings or giving your H the upper hand, but also taking the time to understand (at that moment) what you H was feeling and what he needed so that you can meet in a place you are both "happy"
Again I do stress that had you just not brought her into it by google, fB, whatever. You could have avoided this altogether. I know it is hard and i am just as guilty as doing things like this as anyone who has and so I am in no way judging you. I just want to help you not hurt so much and part of that is focusing on the ways we hurt ourselves.
I'll try and make this brief as I have dinner to fix. Sorry, i got it mixed up with your Mother and it's sad to know that your Dad set her up just to continue the A without her being suspicious. My Dad, took my Mom also to the OW house, to just show Mom they were friends. My H had me meet the OW and her H like you just mentioned for drinks. I thought it was because he felt it was the only way to see her, as he wanted to so bad, so he included me and once the OWH. It never occurred to me that it was to alleviate any suspicions that I had, as I didn't have any. Maybe the OWH had some, but I didn't, just knew that he shouldn't be associating with secretaries that worked beneath him, as it was fronded upon in his job. Any socializing with people at work wasn't suppose to happen, unless it was in a business setting.
Yes, I have read most of "Not Just Friends" and yes, it is covered. Daughters do tend to marry men like their Father. At the time I married my H at 18, I really looked up to my Dad. The Affairs that my Dad had, came after I left home, three of them. The last one, my Mom had the opportunity to kick him out, all the 6 children had moved away. My heart breaks for her, as to what she had to endure with my Dad. She had a nervous breakdown more than once. I love my Dad, but I really see him now in a totally different way. I know he loves me, but he loves himself more than anything else. He will lie to protect himself and says things just to make you feel good. It's sad, as I use to really look up to him as a Father.
In regards to FB again, my H even said, I had never did anything for him to mistrust me, after the event. He knows I am "to honest" with every thing and was worried that if I had messaged her, it would get back to someone where he use to work. That's the main reason he did it, but he still should have trusted me when I told him I didn't.
Louise, I couldn't have made it more clear, how bad it made me feel to see her face and that's why I told him that please don't go and look at her behind my back. I hate her guts for being part of destroying our life and I don't even want you to look at this person who caused us so much pain. She was part of your life and it hurts me if you look at her again. So, I explained all of that to him first. He's the one that looked at me, I hadn't even mentioned seeing her, had just walked in the kitchen to fix dinner and he asked me what was wrong and I told him that I had accidentally seen her by doing a google search. I was visibly upset and he saw it. HE HAS NEVER HAD A REASON NOT TO TRUST ME, HIS WORDS ALSO!
I agree, when you loose trust in a relationship, like I have in him, but he had been building it back up these past few months, you would go behind someone's back. He had no reason not to trust me, so he should have respected my wishes and he's admitted that.
Him being nosy also, which is what he said, he wanted to see what I had written to her and what I might have said about him, led him to check. He knew i would be mad, so when he saw me come in the room, he automatically tried to hide it to avoid an argument. I told him, yes I would be mad for what he did, but he made it twice as bad by hiding it from me. He not only made one mistake, he made 3. He did it, after I asked him not to, he then told me he wasn't doing anything and then he tried to hide it. So, I see no excuse for what he did and he agrees, their wasn't any.
He shouldn't have done it, knew that I didn't lie, but because I had hurried in between dinner to get the message on HH, he thought that I was trying to write her a message, even though I told him exactly why I was rushing and doing what I did.
Louise, I see the point you are trying to make in covering up lies to maintain peace, but in all honesty, that is what is causing so many of our problems and has caused them all of our married life. He drinks to much, knows it's wrong because of how he is acting, but will lie with the drink in his hand. I can't deal with lies, you have to understand, I won't lie about anything, if it's wrong I don't do it. My brother is the same way, I think it has to do with the fear of God being put in you in Catholic School. A lie is a lie, if it's wrong, it's wrong and you don't do it! It's funny in a way, as he was raised in Catholic school also.
I do understand the concept and I'm not concerned about giving him the upper hand, I really don't care about that, I just want truth in this relationship and I'm not getting it, but I had honestly thought he was changing, but yes, he slipped back and like he said, he was sorry and he was still working on being a better person in our marriage. That's what hurt so much, I had seen improvement in regards to drinking, etc., then he directly lied to me and I could see that same look 27 yrs. ago.
I know your not judging me, your just trying to be helpful and it is appreciated very much. No one likes to come on here and type their brains out, trying to help another person who is upset, it's hard.
I know that I am hurting myself by trying to get the truth from the other person, but can't seem to stop it. I guess it hasn't mattered, as I can't find him anyway.
Based on your husbands actions I fail to see how he trusts you. I am not saying that you have given him a reason not to trust you. I am positive from your post that he knows you are an honest person. In my experience trust is a two way street. When that "blind" trust we all have at the beginning of a relationship breaks down the BS has a very good reason not to trust and the WS will withdraw trust as well. Why? Because they know they hurt the BS. They are emotionally fragile, they are volitile and they might do crazy things like email a co-worker or text the OW. Knowing this the WS will feel a kind of mistrust for the BS.
Here your H called it being nosey. But had he really trusted you, he would not have looked. It had nothing to do with respect or thinking you had lied and more to do with him not trusting your possible emotional reaction and response to having a chance to message OW. Yes, it was self preservation. That is what WS do. I am not saying your H was completely in the right or that he does not need IC himself. You know that he is damaged and a liar and yet, you blindly seem to believe, this liar, when he says he trusts you fully. But, he looked! That right there is mistrust.
How do you know he is not lying to you about the trust the he has for you?
I can not think of a better way to say it but what it boils down too is this, when a WS knows they are not trusted they stop trusting a little too because now there is a wall between them and the BS. They know they have changed the BS and they are no longer in the same team or hold each others full confidence. You have become strangers to one another.
My H and I read your post together and I asked him about your H's reaction. In his opinion your H lying and then hiding it, while wrong, seemed like the desperate acts of a man who knew he was wrong but was trying to end the fight. Being honest with you would prolong the fight while complacently accepting all the blame means the fight ends.
When my H and I used to go to MC with an argument we had, our therapist would ask us after we had told her about the fight and had our chance to explain our individual reactions during the fight, She would ask, knowing what you know now, what could YOU have done differently?
I agree your husband needs to work on being honest, but perhaps he does not feel safe being honest or that you are not hiding things from him.
I have to quote your story that started the post:
"So now while I am writing this, he comes in here and tries to apologize, but he qualifies it with, he felt he had a right to know what I might be writing about him to the OW. He thought that maybe I wasn't being honest with him, when I told him that I was writing a note on HH and he thought that I was writing something to her. He didn't believe me, so I asked him, do I ever lie to you? I told you what I had done and now you are accusing me of lying to my face. He said, "I know that you don't lie, but I thought you might have this time, because you wouldn't want me to know." I re-emphazied to him, I have never lied to you in my life and I never will. I've been honest with my lack of feelings for you, even though it hurts me to say that and I only do that when you push me in a corner with the question. He then felt that I should be more honest with my feelings and I told him that I had, but why say something to deliberately hurt you, when you already know that I have mixed feelings, that would be cruel? "
When i read this I see a woman who lies by omission. Because she is hurt or upset she chooses not to be honest about her feelings. You are not being cruel telling him how you really feel you are letting him know how much he hurt you. If you lie by just not saying anything he is not going to trust you are honest about your feelings unless he presses you.
I also see a husband confessing he does not trust his wife but not because she has ever deliberately lied to him, but because he knows she hides thing from him when she is hurt.
This message has been edited by crackedpot on Apr 4, 2012 8:31 PM
My H and I just had a long discussion about this. I get a lot of what your trying to tell me. I read your whole message to my H and asked him, Do you trust me? He said, yes, you've never given me a reason not to! So, if that's the case, why did you check to see if I wrote a message to the OW, when I told you I didn't? He said, he didn't think about it not being a trust issue, he just acted without thinking and it was wrong.
Yes, he lied to avoid a confrontation! He sneaked in the other room to avid me seeing what he was doing. He told me the next morning, he should have told me what he wanted to do, but he didn't. He already knew that it would upset me, as my seeing this Bi&c':h face was awful for me, please don't you look at her also.
I know I can't trust his word, yes he could be lying to me now, I don't know anything anymore. But, 50 yrs. ago, until the A, I had never done anything for him not to trust me. I didn't do anything after finding it out, until he kept lying to me. That was the first time in my life that I had to check things behind his back, but even then, I told him what I was doing, because he wouldn't tell me the truth. Things didn't add up!
I never blindly trusted him again after that and with good reason. More lies about drinking, manipulating the truth to put the blame on me,etc.
Fast forward 4 yrs. ago, H acting different, not interested in sex, angry over loss of money, anger over my back pain, depressed. I thought he was having another A 23 yrs. later? I got suspicious, wasn't going to be fooled again, so I checked his phone records for a few months. Looked on line and that is the one time I didn't let him know what I was doing. I didn't find anything, so just stopped. I did show him the telephone list about 2 months ago and told him why I did it. He seemed shocked and told me he would never do that again. I don't think it was for the pain he caused me alone, it was because of the turmoil and the messed up life we have had because of it, especially recently.
He knows I am trying to get to the truth about the A! I'm trying to find the OWH to see why he told me the A was still going on, but yet my H swore it ended 1 yr. sooner. I haven't kept this from him. I want the truth, was their sex, the lie detector test on part of that question was non-conclusive. He's not going to tell me the truth, as he's scared of what I will do.
Louise, why would I keep telling my H I don't know if I love you, I am not sure its to late for us, over and over again? I've told him this numerous times during therapy, our discussions, arguments, etc. I told him, I can't say "I love you right now, as I don't know how I feel?" I feel just dead inside! I've told him, It makes me feel bad that I can't say, I love you, I wish I could say it, but you might have killed them due to the emotional abuse and lack of emotional support. He's heard this enough from me, why rub it in his face and knock him down further and hurt him more? He's been told by me, pretty soon he won't have any self-esteem left or his manhood will be totally gone! I see that as so cruel, he already suffers from ED due to prostrate issues. I might not love him anymore, I'm trying to get my feelings back, but he's got to work on this marriage also. Not leave me to do all the emotional work with the therapist like 27 yrs. ago. So, I don't think I'm being dis-honest with him by lies of ommision, I'm just not rubbing it in his face.
I can tell him more about my feelings in regards to things about the A and that's when his anger gets out of control. He doesn't want to discuss anything about it that is bothering me, that he didn't discuss 27 yrs. ago, now that it's all come back in my mind. It causes more fights, so yes I stew inside or bug HH with it, till I find another therapist.
Louise, I know I am probably coming off as being difficult, not understanding, etc. and I'm sorry, very sorry. I'm trying to take what everyone is saying and learning from all of you. Just know, I appreciate everyone's effort and I am doing my best. I did learn some things from your post and you were right in a lot of it and I did get your points. Thank you so much for trying to clarify things for me, thank your H also.
Hugs to both of you,
LindaT
P.S. when I said that the only thing I saw about the OW on FB that I pulled up on google was her profile picture, that's correct. The google search gave me 4 names, her married name during the A and 2 other ones. That's why I referred to her being married 2 more times since the A. Just wanted to clarify that.
This message has been edited by Memories23 on Apr 4, 2012 11:49 PM
"The moral of the story: Be careful when dealing with people that you know to be problematic. Never let your ego get in the way. People will not change their root behaviors simply because they are dealing with you."
To me the moral of this story is that when we know someone is going to behave the way they do, then we should not: 1. give them the opportunity to let them behave this way (picking up the snake) and 2 - we should not be surprised when they do behave that way (the boy asking the snake why he bit him).
How this relates to you and your husband is this: you know how he is going to behave. It comes as no surprise to you. You know when you give him the opportunity to behave as he does, then you are going to be hurt and upset. So why give him the opportunity?
The boy in this story knew all about snakes. He knew they bit people. He knew that their bite could kill a person. Still the boy picked up the snake. He thought that by caring and nursing the snake back to health, that he would get a different reaction from that snake that was contrary to his behaviors. When that didn't happen - when the snake still behaved the way all snakes behaved, the boy was surprised. He thought his actions would change the snake, but they didn't.
In the same way, you think that your crying, confronting, etc, is going to change your husband's behavior. It hasn't. So why continue on? You know that his behavior is going to hurt you. You know you can't change his behavior. So why give him the opportunity to continue to hurt you?
For now, quit confronting your h and the past. Find a good IC who will help you understand why you are feeling the way you are, etc. Then work thru those issues with the IC, not your husband. I believe that when you come out on the other side, you will see things is a very different light and life will be so much better for you.
Give it a try. You've got nothing to lose. What you are doing now, isn't working.
I thought I understood it right and what you are saying is correct. I'm looking for another therapist again, hopefully it won't take so long again.
You have a Blessed Easter and weekend. I hope things are going a little better for you, but seeing your strength, I know you'll get through it with God's help.
For now, quit confronting your h and the past. Find a good IC who will help you understand why you are feeling the way you are, etc. Then work thru those issues with the IC, not your husband. I believe that when you come out on the other side, you will see things is a very different light and life will be so much better for you.
Linda
I thought that this needed to be repeated because it is so important.
The right therapist is not the necessarily the one that says what you want to hear.
"I had never done anything for him not to trust me. I didn't do anything after finding it out, until he kept lying to me. That was the first time in my life that I had to check things behind his back, but even then, I told him what I was doing, because he wouldn't tell me the truth. Things didn't add up!"
This is what I mean when I say he has lost a little trust in you because he knew he was lying and he knows you still suspect he continues to lie, so naturally he knows that you might be doing things and not being honest about them by omission leaving him no choice but to be the one to check up on you. It is this way for all WS, not just your H. I am not calling you a liar. But it is clear your H knows you do things when you are emotionally driven too and does not trust your answers in regards to said actions.
You wrote:
"Louise, why would I keep telling my H I don't know if I love you, I am not sure its to late for us, over and over again? I've told him this numerous times during therapy, our discussions, arguments, etc. I told him, I can't say "I love you right now, as I don't know how I feel?" I feel just dead inside! I've told him, It makes me feel bad that I can't say, I love you, I wish I could say it, but you might have killed them due to the emotional abuse and lack of emotional support. He's heard this enough from me, why rub it in his face and knock him down further and hurt him more? He's been told by me, pretty soon he won't have any self-esteem left or his manhood will be totally gone! I see that as so cruel, he already suffers from ED due to prostrate issues. I might not love him anymore, I'm trying to get my feelings back, but he's got to work on this marriage also. Not leave me to do all the emotional work with the therapist like 27 yrs. ago. So, I don't think I'm being dis-honest with him by lies of ommision, I'm just not rubbing it in his face. "
I am not sure if you believe me when I say I felt just as you do now. I still do sometimes. I know I don't LOVE my H. Not like one does in the beginning when there are butterflies. Not even they way I did before the A. In the beginning, like you, I told my H a lot that I was not sure I loved him anymore. I told him I felt empty and numb. Just like you, I felt like my H had killed every chance of me ever feeling anything for him. Yes, it upset him to hear it. Sometimes he would get so upset, he would ask "if that is how you feel, why are you here?"
I would tell him for the kids. He was naturally upset to hear that. What I came to realize was that maybe I did not love him, but I did care for him. Just as you seem to care enough about your H to want to protect his self esteem.
I hated the idea that my H chose to stay with me out of pity or obligation. He did not want me staying in the relationship for those reasons either. He would assure me that he was working on things because it was what he wanted. It is only fair that the BS decide what they want too even if what they want is to stay on the fence.
I agree your H has work to do and so do you. You should ask yourself, why are you really staying?
I wanted to add. Imagine that the roles were reversed and you had cheated. Your H wanted answers and yet told you on more than one occasion he did not love or trust you. Would that not confuse you? Knowing that someone who no longer loved you would demand you work at saving a marriage? Would want answers from you, would want to fight with you about things? Naturally, it would be frustrating being drug through hell (even if you created it) all for someone who does not love you. I did the same thing to my H and he would get upset and frustrated.
I understand you are asking him to do his part, but that has nothing to do with deciding for you if you love him. That is why it is important for you to take the time to decide first for yourself. Do I love this man enough to work on things? Do I love this man enough to accept and hopefully on day forgive him?
You already said you do not love him. Is that solely because of the answers you seek and are not getting? If you got them and they are bad are they really going to make you fall back in love?
I did this same thing with my H and questions. I realized that what I wanted was the security of knowing my H would not lie to me anymore. If he could be honest with these answers then I would feel better. He has still not been able to answer some of the questions and there have been times in the beginning when he continued to lie. Like the fight that started this, your H lied and that scared you again, confirming that he cannot be trusted not to lie. So yes, your H needs to work on honesty and that may go a long way to proving to you that he wants to be honest now even if he cant be honest about the past, like you wish.
I suppose this goes back to my idea that what you need to work on with your H is fostering an environment where you both feel safe being honest. Where he tells you he looked because he was checking up on you and instead of jumping right to being upset because you have never given him a reason to think you would lie, you say "Thank you for being honest about why you looked. It upsets me that you had to check up on me. i want us to relearn to trust each other, what can we do in the future to prevent this from happening again?"
Linda, it is unfair of me really to say the things I am saying to you. I feel like I am triggering in you a need to defend yourself. That is not my intention. I feel like I am pointing out where I see, as an observer. Being betrayed so so horrible, horrible is an understatement. It has a way of making us feel so crazy and unable to see things as they really are or as fair. I do not want you to feel any worse than you do and if I am , I sincerely apologize.
It is one of my massive faults that I give lectures. I will probably regret posting this after I do. I really hope that it does help in some way.
Just like Naomi and Ami said: For now, quit confronting your h and the past. Find a good IC who will help you understand why you are feeling the way you are, etc. Then work thru those issues with the IC, not your husband. I believe that when you come out on the other side, you will see things is a very different light and life will be so much better for you.
and Ami is right that "The right therapist is not the necessarily the one that says what you want to hear."
I was begrudging of my MC. I hated her even more when it turned out that my H was still lying and cheating a year and a half into what I thought was recovery. The thing is she did not know he was lying any more than I did. She has/ had no control over my H or me. She just focused on what I said I wanted to get out of therapy which was coming back together with my H. She warned me it would be ugly and it was and I hated her, but one day you do get through it, you know yourself better and you do feel so much better.
LIfe is not perfect, but I can handle it now.
This message has been edited by crackedpot on Apr 5, 2012 3:57 PM
You both have made some very valid points and helpful suggestions to follow. Thank you! I do want to respond a little more, as to what both of you said, along with a lot of others that was very good. I'm just so mentally worn out right now, I can't focus.
Thanks to everyone again for taking your time to help me get through this and on the right path to heal.
Sorry, it's taken me a long time to respond to this, but didn't want to leave it undone by not responding. This is one of the things that you said below that I'm referring to. I hope that you can see what you wrote and where I answered. It kept deleting what you had written, as I tried to answer your questions, but posting this first, along with my answers.
I would tell him for the kids. He was naturally upset to hear that. What I came to realize was that maybe I did not love him, but I did care for him. Just as you seem to care enough about your H to want to protect his self esteem.
I hated the idea that my H chose to stay with me out of pity or obligation. He did not want me staying in the relationship for those reasons either. He would assure me that he was working on things because it was what he wanted. It is only fair that the BS decide what they want too even if what they want is to stay on the fence.
I agree your H has work to do and so do you. You should ask yourself, why are you really staying? >>>
I know this might sound unreasonable, but I still looked very forward with happiness when my H would come home from work. I would make sure I was dressed nice, make-up and give him a warm hug and kiss when I saw him. I understand what your saying in regards to when you first get married, but I almost felt the same way before the A.with my love for him. Maybe I never grew up, but I think it was a heart felt love that I never lost and was grateful for all that we had accomplished together. I think when you come from a very poor family, but were raised good by my Mom, especially, that I always did my best. I married above where I came from, but in my heart felt like I was equal because I was a good and smart person. Not saying that to brag, I just always tried to do the best I could with whatever I did in life. My Mom taught me, that you can do anything you set your mind to. (Boy, I wish I could apply that to my life now.)
I don't feel so strange hearing you say that you told your husband the same thing. No, I don't love him anyway like I did before the A, I can't even say that I have any feelings, I thought I was getting some of them back last night, but then we had another set back tonight.
I'm not sure that he is even staying in it out of love for me, I do know he doesn't like being alone and has no other friends, except for one tennis friend. If I left him, he would probably go into depression, if he's not already in one. But who knows, he would probably find someone else.
Yes, we both have work to do, but as usual I'm doing all the reading and he still won't do the same. You asked why I am still here? I guess because it's still such a big step to take and I keep praying for a miracle to happen, that I can come to feel some love for him again. That I will find the right therapist that will help me get through what ever is going on and for him to go also, to validate my feelings and learn how to listen to me when he needs to. He's changed, but the emotions that you think he would show under different circumstances aren't there. I don't know if he's even capable of more than he is showing now? So, that would be the reason I have continued to stay, but other times I just want to give up, as it's been going on for so long. As we talked last night, he doesn't remember hardly anything about our marriage and I found that very sad. Sometimes I wish I didn't have such a good memory.
>>
First of all, when I found out about the A, I didn't say those things to my WH. I was in to much shock at the beginning, then I did the hysterical bonding, then the anger came in. I yelled, argued because he wouldn't answer my questions and probably told him that I hated him for what he did. But I never recall telling him that I didn't know if I loved him anymore, as I was still working on salvaging the marriage. He sure wasn't, he was just being defensive and angry with my questions. So, your question only applies to what is happening in the past year. Yes, he knew I didn't trust his lies, but who would have?
You already said you do not love him. Is that solely because of the answers you seek and are not getting? If you got them and they are bad are they really going to make you fall back in love? >>>
Yes, I am asking him to do his part and by that I mean being honest with me at all times, even now. Say what you mean, not what you want me to hear. I feel that he has to earn my love by giving me the emotional support that he has never given me and that might help me love him again. I have worked on a lot of things, read books, tried to find a therapist that can help me and us. I'm looking, not him. You asked me did I not love him because he isn't giving me the answer's that I need from him. I wouldn't say that is the main reason, I think the reason for the lack of love is that I realize that he has never been there for me and I look at that as he might not have loved me like I thought he did? Also, if he truly loved me, he would not torture me by not answering my questions that he never answered 27 yrs. ago and that is causing me to shut myself off from him, as in a true marriage based on love, you don't keep things from each other. Their is only one thing that would cause me to divorce him and I've said it before. If he attempted sex with her or did have sex with her, I couldn't or would not stay in this marriage. I wouldn't have in the beginning if I had known 27 yrs. ago, unfortunately he knew this and would have lied to save the marriage. I am not judging others who are able to do it, I just know that I can't and if he has kept this from me for all these years, it makes me feel even more used and the affair was bad enough. So, that is the only thing that would cause that. If their were more weekends, tell me. If the affair lasted longer, tell me. So, their is only one thing that would definitely not make me fall back in love with him telling me about the past.
>>
Yes, I do need the security of him not lying to me anymore, like just what happened. If he could answer the questions that I need to know I would feel better about him. I know he's not going to remember everything, but their is a lot that he can remember, but he is choosing not to talk about it as he doesn't want to. So, yes his lie did cause me to go back in time and see that it was just like the A and afterwards. He's went backwards with me by his dis-honesty. He still needs to be honest with me about the past, that he thinks isn't important.
>>
Yes, it would have been nice if he had been honest and told me why he looked at the FB site, but he didn't, he lied, tried to hide it and at this point, when it comes to the A, I can't stand anymore lying. If He had told me the truth, I will be honest and say, I don't know if I could have said what you would have expected me to. I would have probably had to count to 1000 to do that.
It is one of my massive faults that I give lectures. I will probably regret posting this after I do. I really hope that it does help in some way.>>>
Louise, you are not being unfair in what you are saying, your just trying to help and you always do. So, please don't apologize for posting it. I'm just so sorry it has taken me so long to even respond to what you have taken time to write to me. I had to take a break from it for a while, with this last post as I was just feeling over whelmed and couldn't deal with anything anymore, even though their was so much good advice. I just ran out of energy even to write. No matter what any one says, you are right, if I think that someone isn't seeing what I am trying to say, I will feel like I need to explain it better. You know people get paid to give lectures and I don't look at yours like that, nor anyone on here. We are all hurting and just trying to help each other.
I hear you, Naomi and Ami and we haven't been discussing it and I agree, but it sure keeps me quiet and that doesn't make it happy around the house. I know that sometimes we don't like our therapist and that's not the reason that I would stop going to one. My reason has more to do with if they don't offer solutions or act interested in helping me. They don't have to agree with what I say, I'm paying for their advice and when they aren't giving it or don't feel after I've told them this up front, that I want nothing but the truth. I need to look for another one.
That had to be hard for you to be in counseling and not know that the A was still going on? I don't know if even counselor's know when someone is lying, some might be better at it than other's. No therapy is fun and after doing it for 5 yrs. a long time ago, I hate having to do it again, but I do think it's necessary.
Thanks for all your help. I'm glad that you can handle your life now, maybe someday I can say the same. I think I need to write a book about my life, but it would probably just depress me.
Thanks and Hugs,
LindaT
This message has been edited by Memories23 on Apr 14, 2012 6:33 PM This message has been edited by Memories23 on Apr 14, 2012 12:56 AM This message has been edited by Memories23 on Apr 14, 2012 12:54 AM
I just read your post and for the sake of brevity I will just touch on two things that stood out to me. One, life is full of tragedy and terrible things. My H did many many horrible things during the A. He was very heartless and cruel to me. During my father's A I called my mom and told her I was concerned because my dad was not answering at the house. (my mom was out of town at the time) I expressed my concern that he should be home, its late. She called him I guess after our conversation ended. Then my father called me a few hours later and yelled at me that if he and my mother got a divorce it would be all my fault for being nosey little bitch. Yes, my father, whom I loved called me and told methat. I have never forgotten it.
WS are so cruel it is tragic. Like all addicts they are dismissive of everyone's feelings up their own. It is hard not to let it color who they are, but that is what we work for in recovery. They can not take back everything they did or said but they can make amends for it and hopefully, in your case, your H will start down that road. Like you he does need to be in IC but you can't make him change. you can only change yourself and set an example. If you out grown him in the process, his loss.
two. When i started therapy I really thought the therapist would have all sorts of helpful things for me and H. When left our 2nd session shaking our heads, like why are we paying good money for this?
It was not until now, 2 years out of therapy, that the things she was working on with us are starting to make sense. A good therapist is their to guide you around your own thoughts.
They can see the things you cannot about your behavior and give you hints about how to start getting out of being stuck in a feeling.
For example ( and I hope this does not offend you) but your therapist suggested you stop HH. I know you feel like you get help here and I do not doubt it. Having an empathetic ear is always nice.
but your MC suggested it because he wanted you to drop the past and to get away from things that might trigger you as well. Sometimes it helps to clear your head and find a center on your own before you are ready to handle all the bad things happening to others. I know I had to take a break for a while.
I know the biggest hurdle that I and my H faced was what we called the horded room of our problems. Everything the A, the past problems, all in this room and while trying to recover from the A dealing with all the other issues in that room. OUr therapist did her best to help us start cleaning out that room but first she had to get us focused on one thing at a time. Not to ignore things forever, but to come back to those things she wanted us to ignore and put aside for the sake of dealing with one thing at a time.
It was frustrating and you resists because you keep wanting to do your own thing, what you think is more important. YOu will get to that eventually when you are ready, really ready.
I hope that makes sense
i hope you find the right therapist.
It will all get better it just takes lots of time.
Thanks for reading all that, I'll respond in the morning as I am so wiped out tonight and it's almost 4 in the morning, but when I get upset I can't sleep and usually go in the other bed to sleep when I am angry. That's where I am tonight.
I know it was a long post, you probably had a headache after reading it.
I know that life is full of tragedy and terrible things, just like your Dad speaking so horrible to you and saying such a awful thing to you. I'm sure you'll never forget it, just like my Dad yelling awful things to my daughter and I, when we drove home and he had not moved out of the house after his 3rd. affair on my Mom. He was livid that I told him that he promised to move out, one month after they got settled in their new home, after Mom found out about the 3rd. A at 73 yrs. of age.
I know that WS can be so cruel during an A, mine definitely did. But maybe I'm wrong, but I think he went beyond cruel, considering what I had to go through. He has never said he was sorry for anything that he did that was cruel during his A, even to this day. So, wouldn't you think he would acknowledge the cruelty of how he treated me then?
He has tried to become better, but so much of the same lack of emotional support is still not there. He just made a derogatory comment to one of his clients this morning about me. He was doing computer work at her home and she said, "Your wife is so lucky, she has you there to always help her if she has problems with the computer." What does he say, "Maybe you should call her and tell her that?" Maybe I'm wrong, but why did he say that? I always appreciate it that he can help solve a computer problem and he knows that. He could have said something nice instead, like, "Yes, she sure does appreciate it.!" So he tells me and I don't even know this person, but she knows my best friend and I told him, "How do you think I looked in that person's eyes when you said that?" His comment was, that he was only making a joke, which is what he has always done at my expense so everyone could laugh at me. He always seemed to take great delight in doing that. I finally told him, no more and this has been done for years, especially with our grandchildren.
I know that I need IC, but no way is he going to go. He doesn't feel that he needs to and I'm sure not going to insist on it, that's a waste of money. Been there 27 yrs. ago and it accomplished nothing with him.
Some very good points were made about the therapist. I do know that you don't always see it right away, in what they are trying to help you do or get past. I do agree and go back and forth on this, on coming on HH. Sometimes I do it, as he doesn't talk to me about anything and I get lonely, so I come to my friends to see how they are doing. I do think I'll cut it back a little, which I've done before. I've also come here, when he does something that throws me over the edge.
Everything you've said makes sense. I thank you very much for taking the time to help me by explaining it.
Love,
LindaT
Current Topic - I Am So Livid With My Husband Right Now!
