i would like to share this entire film with you, because i value communicating with all of you (even Chris).

if the first section of the film is disagreeable to you (it is about religion) please skip it and watch the other two sections.

i would like any feedback you may have. it will take about 85 minutes of your time.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

thanks for checking it out,
Steve

http://www.network54.com/Forum/90650/thread/1202856336/%26quot%3BConservatives%26quot%3B+v-+John+McCain---

Now is now.

Wow, thats deep.

_____________________________________________
January 6,1991: The last post season victory for the Bengals.

Steve, props to you for posting that, you are guarenteed to catch some flack from a lot of sheep that are comfortable in their little bubble. Search for ENDGAME, and Loose Change, a video on 9/11. This chit is not for the weak at heart, really had me tore up for some time......I have 2 little daughters under the age of 2. I pray for them that these things are what most people claim and hope............BS. Politics have never added up in my mind, but unfortunetly these things make all to much sense. Flame away fckers.

Lord, please bring a defense to the Natti.

Steve, I will be honest with you, I am not going to watch two hours of this. I did briefly skip through to see what it was about and the part I watched was about how the government knew about 9/11. America loves conspiracy theories. Every major disaster, conspiracy freaks come out and say the gov new about it. Look at Oklahoma, government knew about it. Peal Harbor, FDR knew about it. Now, 9/11, Bush knew about it.

Whatever evidence there is, you have to rememeber, there are thousands and thousands of pieces of info coming in. Just to say 'look, he was warned, here is the document' I do not believe shows the whole story. FDR was warned about Pearl Harbor. He was warned about other places too like the Philippians and many other places.

JMHO

Whether or not this stuff is true, the fact remains that most people don't want to know the truth about the world they live in and the powers that be. Its much more comfortable to remain safe in an insulated bubble as long as life doesn't become too hard. Ignorance is bliss. Let the majority have some basic things -- a family, a house, and a couple of weeks of vacation -- and most will be content just to bitch and complain about the little things.

"Get a clue jack azz! Stop reading your history books" - quote from "Murf's Guide to Survivin' in Da Hood"

BA, you make a good point, I agree. That is why I sometimes hate listening to Michael Savage. The truth he brings out, sometimes its just best to put your head in the sand.

Well, what I was referring to has nothing to do with liberal or conservative, and I know Savage's bread and butter is liberal-bashing. Maybe he talks about other things too?

"Get a clue jack azz! Stop reading your history books" - quote from "Murf's Guide to Survivin' in Da Hood"

I wasn't making a liberal/conservative statement either. He is a good radio host and he bashes Bush more than anyone.

homey, at least watch the third section about the federal reserve. dyed in the wool conservatives especially need to know about that.

If you are going to tell people to watch "Loose Change," the 9/11 conspiracy movie, tell them to watch the response to Loose Change as well.

Unfortunately the response is even longer because it goes throught the movie and actually stops it at point to tell people how they are being mislead. It is good in that respect also, b/c it directly counters loose Change, it is just long.

Seriously though, Bush knew about 9/11? That is crap, and to convince you of it they talk about hologram planes the government created to make it look like a plane was flying into the building and show misleading (read partial) pics of the damage to the Pentagon.

Ever heard of Occam's Razor. The simplest solution is more likely to be true, and the idea that Muslims from the Middle East, after decades of interference and intervention with their government and country from Western powers, got pissed off and decided to commit an act of terror is, for me, much more likely.

It's not like they hadn't tried it before.

Occam's razor is not an embargo against the positing of any kind of entity, or a recommendation of the simplest theory come what may (Note that simplest theory is something like "only I exist" or "nothing exists"). Simpler theories are preferable other things being equal. The other things in question are the evidential support for the theory. Therefore, according to the principle, a simpler but less correct theory should not be preferred over a more complex but more correct one.

For instance, classical physics is simpler than subsequent theories, but should not be preferred over them because it is demonstrably wrong in certain respects. It is the first requirement of a theory that it works, that its predictions are correct and it has not been falsified. Occam's razor is used to adjudicate between theories that have already passed these tests, and which are moreover equally well-supported by the evidence.

Another contentious aspect of the Razor is that a theory can become more complex in terms of its structure (or syntax), while its ontology (or semantics) becomes simpler, or vice versa. The theory of relativity is often given as an example.

Galileo Galilei lampooned the misuse of Occam's Razor in his Dialogue. The principle is represented in the dialogue by Simplicio. The telling point that Galileo presented ironically was that if you really wanted to start from a small number of entities, you could always consider the letters of the alphabet as the fundamental entities, since you could certainly construct the whole of human knowledge out of them (a view that Abraham Abulafia presented much more expansively).

or, try Uthman's Razor: "Of two equally plausible explanations, the more cynical one is correct."

and to say muslim terrorism and realpolitik government manipulation are mutually exclusive is dishonest, mr. anon.

To say the gov just knew muslim terrorists were going to bomb the Trade Center but failed to act is not the argument being made by Loose Change.

They make that argument at times, but spend most of their time arguing that the the building imploded in a controlled demolition and the images of the plane were fabricated by the gov.

That maybe the gov. knew is more plausible to me, but I generally don't go for conspiracy theories. I usually find that the gov. is pretty blatantly screwing people and that the conspiracies are unnecessary b/c they can just do it to people's face and still get away with it.

the video linked isnt loose change.

and as to conspiracy theories, that label has been used to falsely discredit and bury many truths. everything that follows is factual, documented by FOIA released documents, court cases, and researchable evidence:

- On June 4, 1963 John F Kennedy signed Executive Order 11110 and basically stripped the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest, which is unconstitutional. Kennedy was murdered while the treasury was printing his silver-backed 10 and 20 dollar bills, the two and five bills were already circulating. immediately after his death the project to free america from dishonest debt money was scrapped by LBJ.

- The "Federal" Reserve System is a privately owned for profit bank that charges the us government interest on all printed money. Each dollar bill is printed with 3 to 4 cents of debt allready attached to it, and this interest makes up the largest majority of the alleged national debt.

- All US income tax goes directly to the Privately owned Federal Reserve Bank

- The IRS, income tax, and federal reserve were all founded in the same session of congress before christmas on DEC 23 1913.

- George HW Bush was the owner of Zapata Oil, which established rigging in international waters around cuba during the bay of pigs invasion, which has been revealsed to have been codenamed operation Zapata with one of the ships codenamed Barbara according to FOIA released doccuments.

- After Kennedy was murdered J. Edgar Hoover took a meeting with CIA operatives to determine if their liason at the operation of cuban affairs knew anything about the possible cuban connections of the murder. the operatives name in the memo was george bush.

- The fbi recieved a phonecall from George Bush on 11-22-63 that a "James Parrot" had said he was going to kill the president when he came to houston.

- Kennedy assigned J Edgar Hoover to investigate the CIA after the bay of pigs fiasco, and the FBI dismantled many of the CIA's terror training camps before kennedy was murdered.

- Bush was a member of Nixons whitehouse per the request of the man sitting in front of kennedy when he was shot former Texas Governor John Conally, and Bush brought E Howard Hunt in as a staff member.

- After the watergate fiasco, E Howard Hunt was imprisioned for being a member of Nixon's dirty-tricks plumbers union. In the watergate tapes nixon is heard saying that hunt must be kept quiet because he could blow the lid on the whole bay of pigs thing : "[V]ery bad, to have this fellow Hunt, ah, you know, ah, it's, he, he knows too damn much and he was involved, we happen to know that. And that it gets out that the whole, this is all involved in the Cuban thing, that it's a fiasco, and it's going to make the FB, ah CIA look bad, it's going to make Hunt look bad, and it's likely to blow the whole, uh, Bay of Pigs thing which we think would be very unfortunate for CIA and for the country at this time, and for American foreign policy, and he just better tough it and lay it on them."

- When Bush became head of the CIA in November 1975 he claimed to have no prior cia connections. when confronted with the foia documents in 1994, he said "that must have been another george bush". When he was installed as DCI by Ford, he Immediately discontinued cooperation with a congressional investigation into CIA wrongdoings that was ongoing at the time.

- E Howard Hunt lost a civil case for libel against a newspaper that suggested he may have been one of kennedys assasins because he was in dallas that day, he was a confessed government assasin, and there was enough evidence to satisfy that the paper hadn't commited libel.

- In a recorded deathbed confession in 2007, Hunt admitted to CIA involvent, and being a "benchwarmer" in the plan to his son, citing JFK's persecution of the CIA, Dismantling of the fed, and unwillingness to deploy the army to follow the CIA bay of pigs invasion as reasons for his death.

- Prescott Bush was the director of union banking corporation, which had many of its assets seized in 1942 through the trading with the enemy act for storing nazi plunder.

- The current directing minds in our government formed their plan for america in the PNAC thinktank nearly 15 years ago, and specifically outlined targets of interest and plans of action that they have engaged in. That is the definition of conspiracy.

- The Carlysle Group, Bechtel, Brown and Root, Halliburton, GE, et all have directly employed/employ high ranking members of our government to include Cheney, Bush, Bushes Family, and Bin Laden's family (ironically). That is the definition of special interest.

there are many other things that have had the dishonest "conspiracy theory" perjorative tossed on them, and are FACTS. its disgusting.

Don't forget the Kennedy Admin working with the Mafia on an assassination attempt of Castro.

That was revealed as beyond refutea year or so ago, when the CIA released its "Family Jewels" files.

It was front page for a day, then no one cared anymore because it was "so long ago."

Its funny how so many people always label Savage as a liberal basher. While there is much truth to this he also rakes the Republicans over the coals.

Reality is neither party seems to give a rats rear about this country.

_____________________________________________
January 6,1991: The last post season victory for the Bengals.