I believe it is going to be the death of this nation.
We can't afford the socilistic package and many people who claimed that was a great idea, are starting to find out, what most of us normal thinking people already udnerstood.
It was not going to do anything but create more debt to China.
Job rate is still out of control...Where are the new jobs created by the stimulus?
Where is the stable economy based on buying the auto industry?
Where are the tax breaks for working class people?
All bullsh!t and now...they want to toss in a medical plan that will bankrupt thousands of small business owners and force more people out of work, to make sure that 17 million illegal people get free healthcare and provide free care for the poor, that already have free care.
The working class people, are not forced to carry insurance that they can't afford or be hit by a tax increase.
That is brilliant thinking...lets take more money from the people already in trouble.
Another brilliant idea from Pelosi is to tax the healthcare...yes, that is exactly what we need, more money added to the already outrageous cost of living.

leave the medical field to the private sector!
Provide coverage to the poor and extend benefits to a family that might lose thier jobs...pretty much the way it is now, and regulate the medication industry...that is the biggest issue.

You simply can't allow the federal govt to play God.
I have posted links that show the truth behind the govt run system and I will provide another news story where a 22 year old is dead b/c they decided that he was not worthy of saving.

E-mail your local idiot and scream NO on this bill!
The save world climate idiots, already fuched us over with lies and tainted stats.

You Mickey Mouse and pelosi nuts, need to wake up and read this bill, not just the news bullet points, but read what this bill will do and how much power you are giving the FEDERAL govt.

I do not want some hack lawyer turned idiot politician, deciding if my child has lived a decent enough life to recieve medical care or not.


http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Alcoholic-22-Dies-After-Being-Refused-Life-Saving-Liver-Transplant/Article/200907315342299?lpos=UK_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15342299_Alcoholic%2C_22%2C_Dies_After_Being_Refused_Life-Saving_Liver_Transplant

"Despite how the conflict has been portrayed by our glorious media, if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death."

I dont remember anyone saying the economy would be turned completely turned around by July 2007. In fact, I do remember Obama saying things would get worse before they get better.

As far as the jobs are concerned, unemployment and job growth are often the last indicators of an improving economy. There was a news release here in Nevada about infrastructure and cosntruction jobs growing in June/July and part of it was attributed to the Stimulus money being accessed.

I hate to break this to you, but most of the stimulus money (more than 90%) has not been accessible. People on the right keep claiming it isnt working, but the fact of the matter is it has only recently been given out to the States for projects.

Murf, I dont know how many more times we can say this, but here is number 20 or 30 - the economy will show more signs of growth and life in 2010. Some indicators like the stock market and other financials markets have showed early improvement, but it is in its early stages.

The housing market has not hit rock bottom yet (and personally I dont think it will until 2011). The housing market and the markets that depend on the housing markets have been held above water by the Bush bail out. That money enabled all those companies in the financial and housing markets not to go under. The issue now becomes the market flushing out the remaining crappy mortgages, foreclosures and basically the clensing of the market. That will take a while. Nothing will change that.

Health care is an issue that must be dealt with. I am someone who wants a government option. I hate the current system. I have pre-existing conditions so it disables me from getting health care outside of work. I am the first one to tell you the initial few years of a public option health care wont be easy and it will take years to iron out all the details, but I want it as I dont think the private markets can offer me anything I want or that I can pay for on my own.

"The American Cancer Society says uninsured patients are 60 percent more likely to die within five years of their diagnosis."

Bronco, you've already knocked Murf to the ground once again, but he's such a pushover that I can't help but to pile on.

You rhetorically ask ask where the tax relief for working class people is? (Whoops, you're a Bush pansie, FOX-watching neocon. You wouldn't know what rhetorically means).

Nevertheless, you're ignorance is on display again. Working class people, who pay less than ten percent of their income on federal taxes, just got a $400 individual income tax credit, and a couple gets the full $800.

More than one third of the $787 billion dollar stimulus is in the form of various tax reductions. One of the more intriguing ones is the 30% credit for energy efficient upgrades to our homes, like putting in new windows and doors.

Try googling Stimulus Tax Relief. But that would be a factual exercise. You're much more comfortable shooting from the hip and making crap up.

Look, the economy is what it is, you can blame Bush, and I can blame the idiots, but it is not going to change over night and I never asked it to be, but pouring fuel on the fire is not the answer either and taking a wild shot at healthcare reform at this stage of the game is not very smart.
Barney...one quick note about your savings on energy....we are being laid off at an alarming rate, who has the fuching money to purchase fuching windows and new heating and air systems?
We are more concerned about eating and having the money to pay for the fuching electric to stay on, not saving the fuching planet 200 hundred years from now.
Tax rebates and refunds?...everyone is being laid off...not paying taxes to begin with...do you not understand what is going on?
One of my subcontractors went from 47 electrcians...down to 3!...44 people without jobs in 1 small company and you want them to purchase windos and doors to save the planet?


I just got ass raped by Duke energy last month...400.00 security deposite on top of my bill...I have had electric in my name since 1988, never been shut off...yet b/c my bill was 10 days past due over the past 3 months b/c my hours have been cut almost in half, they called it a security deposite...so I had to pay almost 700.00 to keep my electric on, out of the blue...and you want me to cheer for some fuching bullsh!t save the planet garbage?
Real life issues are more important than some Al Gore trumped up junk science horse sh!t and some fake new energy source that will not happen anytime soon. Get a clue dipsh!t.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Some people scare me, and he claims to carry a gun and badge...wow!

Back to subject....
My child is gong thru something right now, a strange and unexpected ordeal.
Bottom line, thousands and thousands of dollars and medication bills.
just got a new order yesterday for 2 more types of medication...one cost 189.00 and the other 165.00.
Where in the fuch, do I get that from? (new windows and doors I guess)
5k deduct. from the ass raping insr. company, they don't cover either drug and I am down from 95-100 hours every two weeks to 62 hours.
I called Hamitlon County...sorry, you don't qualify!
If I quit my job and go on welfare, then everything is taken care of.

So, do see my concern?
You are not only going to allow the Federal Gov't of the united States, to play God and decide who lives or dies, but you might not even be worthy of having that little perk in this new world.

Where is the help for the working family?
Can anyone answer that question?
The Rich stay rich no matter what...they all protect eachother, just word things so that you don't ever catch on, Democrats and Republicans are in the same bed together, they just can't let you know that.
The poor can get help with a phone call.
Middle class family, working paycheck to paycheck...fuch you, who cares...stop crying...buy windows and doors so that we have a planet in 200 years....
Are you kidding me?

From the hip? LMFAO!!!!
More from day to day real life...I don't need Fox or MSNBC to tell me that I have more bills than money comming in and nobody gives a sh!t about it.
I don't need some rich son of b1tch in congress, telling me that he is worried about my family, then going on a Cruise paid by the tax payers, to discuss healthcare that I will never QUALIFY for.

What we need is real help...not tax breaks and energy savings...
You want to stimulate the economy....give the TAX payers a check for a couple of thousand dollars and let us pay some fuching bills or get some groceries...

"Despite how the conflict has been portrayed by our glorious media, if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death."

Murph must be drinking the CMBH cool-aid...  I can't remember murph every starting or turning so many threads political.  This has been one of the least political mbs offseasons of memory, murph you must be jonsing for election debates.

"Well, it ain't braggin' if it's true
Yes sir, yes sir
It ain't braggin' if it's true
Muhammad Ali said that
Back when he was a young man
Back when he was Cassius Clay
Before he fought too many fights
And left his brain inside the ring"

Murf has been caught in so many lies and embellishments in other threads, it's hard to take his family health care scenario seriously. But, it's ironic that if he's completely telling the truth about his personal situation now, he could be a prime benefactor of the proposed legislation.

No one is proposing that the Murf's of the world be forced into a government program. But it is being proposed that, if you don't like your employer's plan (which Murf apparently doesn't) then you're going to have the option to join a much more comprehensive public plan.

He continually argues both ends of the spectrum and, is so ignorant, he can't even comprehend the irony coming out of his own mouth, or keyboard.

Listening to the talking heads on FOX News, it's interesting how they spin the alternative government plan as (1) not an option but an inevitable requirement and (2) so much worse than the average US plan.

The first point is a neocon lie. The second point gets discredited by the very scenario that Murf described in his own family story.

Frankly, I don't know if the reform proposals will work. But here are some items that can't be disputed:

Neocons lie about the forced element of the proposal.

Americans continue to spend more per capita on health care than other industrialized countries that have government plans.

Americans are sicker and living shorter lives than other industrialized countries that have government plans.

Medicaid costs, which are defacto socialized medical care for the poor in the present system, are going through the roof, which is burdening all of us that work with further tax debt.

Our present system sucks. I'm just glad some political leadership is finally engaged on the issue with some intelligent insight.

First of all...show one time where I lied?
You can't, so move on with your typical liberal bullsh!t.
Secondly, I don't joke about my kids.

...back to topic...
I will not qualify under the terms of the first draft. That draft has been going thru some serious chagnes since a ton of liberals backed away from it and Pelosi and mickey Mouse are now buying everyone off behind closed doors.

The original plan...forced you into insr., if your employer offers it, and you don't take it, then you are charged 2.5% higher taxes on your income tax. that plan is now being twisted...thank God.

Nobody knows what is going to be in there, Obama was drilled the other day for not understanding some of the provisions and of course the earmarks attached to the original.

You just said it yourself...medicaid is free healthcare for the poor...no sh!t, so how is it that we have 47 million people that are poor and without medical?
It is a bullsh!t lie and a shield for socialism by the gov't.
This way, they can control you day to day.
They will play God with your life...your childs life and your spouses life.
If you don't live up to thier living standards, then you are not worthy of receiving medical attention.
I keep posting links from the Utopian healthcare system from the UK.

God forbid a child is on life support and eating up money, b/c they can decide if he is worthy or not to continue the medical care based on money in the govt.

Still waiting on the answer of who is helping the middle class family like mine.


"Despite how the conflict has been portrayed by our glorious media, if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death."

"Nobody knows what is going to be in there, Obama was drilled the other day for not understanding some of the provisions and of course the earmarks attached to the original."

Link please. By now you gotta realize we dont accept or believe what you say just because "Murf says it".



"The American Cancer Society says uninsured patients are 60 percent more likely to die within five years of their diagnosis."

I have no clue as to what is in the Dems./Obama healthcare bill. The resident lefty/Obamabots here are banging on Murf because he opposes it. My guess is Murf will oppose any Obama/Dems proposal, and the leftys here will defend them. Link me some knowledge as to why this proposal is so great, tell me your specifics as to why you like it and think it will be as great as advertised. Tell me how it will work and how it will be funded. Tell me how many more will benefit from it. Tell me how it works. I don't buy anything until I'm informed, make your case as to why I should believe.

"Link me some knowledge as to why this proposal is so great, tell me your specifics as to why you like it and think it will be as great as advertised."


Yeah--because it sure does work well in places like England and Canada. LMMFAO.

Keep on printing money and raising the minimum wage laws. That sure is helping the economy. LMAO.





"So he got fired? Big deal. It's happened to the best of us. So he got kicked out of his house by his 400 lb'ed wife?!?!? That's probably better for him anyways."-OldSchooler on ChrisMBHater's absence

Turd...they can't link any of that information.
I get banged on from the liberal idiots on this site everyday, I don't care, they will never get my into thier unicorn and rainbow cult.
I see what is going on and I can see what the future holds.
When faced with facts they turn to off topic insults, or demand a link, when you post a link, they ignore the topic all together or call it a "Bush NEOCON" site.
I have posted a few stories from the UK about thier universal healthcare and how the Govt. is playing God over there and they don't have half the issues our Federal govt has.

From what Mickey Mouse said last night...he talked out of both sides of hsi mouth the entire time.
Reporters are not asking the hard questions and the american people are going to be screwed.
You had 1 reporter ask him about his racist friend Gates...what on earth is that about?
A healthcare topic.. and she wanted to know his thoughts about a racist Harvard prof.

It is pathetic how the media has ball licked this guy for the first 6 months.

The basic concept is...UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE...you are now forced to carry insr. that is your universal coverage.
What an absolute joke these idiots have created.

"Despite how the conflict has been portrayed by our glorious media, if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death."

Murf, the question is not if you lie, but why you lie. Is it because you're ignorant, lacking morals or both?

You got clobbered in your OVI checkpoint thread for several of your lies there, such as the motivation of running them, the percentage of citations handed out, the "search" of passengers merely because they were present, etc.

Now you lie in this thread. You start off with a specific complaint about no stimulus tax relief for middle income people, like you claim to be. And then you backtrack like a hosed down b1tch when informed about the variety of tax relief elements for middle class folk.

And then you come back in your latest comment with your lies about being forced into a universal program.

You won't, and can't, rebut the facts about health and health cost comparisons between Americans and other industrialized countries.

You moan about what a victim you are under the present system and then incredibly complain about relief options that would specifically help you.

Conservatives of the Wiliam Buckley mode were rather sophisticated in their cognitive views. But the modern conservatives, such as yourself, are merely puppets on the end of cartoon character masters, such as Glen Beck and Rush.

"You moan about what a victim you are under the present system and then incredibly complain about relief options that would specifically help you."

What are the options that will specifically help Murf? Please explain in detail or provide a link.

Murf, the question is not if you lie, but why you lie. Is it because you're ignorant, lacking morals or both?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Again, prove that I have lied...I have an opinion that you hate and disagree with, but I did not get the liberal memo, that all nonbelievers are liars now...must have just been sent to the Unicorn and Rainbow foundation.

You got clobbered in your OVI checkpoint thread for several of your lies there, such as the motivation of running them, the percentage of citations handed out, the "search" of passengers merely because they were present, etc.
~~~~~~~~~

LMFAO...clobbered in the OVI thread...my stats were proven, again, look it up and then shut up.
Yes, OVI checkpoints check passengers in the backseat of the car..The Revenue Enhancers were on the Westside saturday night..
2 friends of mine, were checked and the girls in the car with them, had to show ID and the cops did a background check on them.
So I don't know what checkpoint that you ahve ever worked, but the Revenue enhancing state boys, check the passengers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now you lie in this thread. You start off with a specific complaint about no stimulus tax relief for middle income people, like you claim to be. And then you backtrack like a hosed down b1tch when informed about the variety of tax relief elements for middle class folk.

How did I lie? I went off you for trying to pass that unicorn bullsh!t off as some kidn of great tax relief for the middle class.
My point is, great, you gave some people some tax breaks on window and doors, only if you if purchase a certain window or door that is about 10% higher than your average window and door....then I said, I woudl rather have help with paying real life day to day stuff.
If you think that is a lie, then you need to get some fresh air, your head is filled with Obama balls.


And then you come back in your latest comment with your lies about being forced into a universal program.
~~~~~~~
Did you not hear or lsiten or read what Obama wants to do?
Force you into a universal healtcare system..if you don't purchase insr...you will pay higher taxes...that is pretty much forcing you into his system...how you can see it any other way, is beyond me.


You won't, and can't, rebut the facts about health and health cost comparisons between Americans and other industrialized countries.
~~~~~~~~~
Maybe you have mistaken me for someone who gives two sh!ts about costs of healthcare for everyone.
I care about giving the govt. the power to play God and if you think for a second that some snot nosed weazel assed lawyer, will not play God with peoples lives, you are simply diluted and need help.
I have posted links on thsi very topic...You are too old and you are going to die within a few months, so we are no longer going to cover your medication..thank you and god bless.
Your child is suffering from cancer, too bad it is too far advanced to save them, so we are going to cut them off, so the mexicans, that are here illegaly, can recieve thier medication, they are healthy and working.



You moan about what a victim you are under the present system and then incredibly complain about relief options that would specifically help you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who is a victim?
I am not a victim, I am just tired of iditos like you trying to sell me some utopian bullsh!t that is going to kill innocent americans and bakrupt this country.
I am tired of being told, that this is the right thing to do and everyone gets help from bottom to top, but the backbone of this nation, gets sh!t on and idiots like you cheer it on.

What about the middle class married family of four.
Do you truly want to get into this debate and discuss what is unfair and baised bullsh!t?

Lies...lol
I am the most honest person you will ever come across...as a liberal, you hate people like me.
Ignorant? Depends on what liberal is calling you that...lol



"Despite how the conflict has been portrayed by our glorious media, if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death."

Murf,

Just a specific answer to your point about the "Energy Tax Credit." During a time when the housing market is in shambles, many people are choosing to repair and upkeep their homes rather than sell/buy homes, and those who are first time house buyers are in many cases buying foreclosed homes which were previously owned by people who couldn't upkeep their homes and thus they need new doors, windows, etc. Not to mention appliances, HVAC, hot water heatrs, etc.

I'm not saying that this is a fix all for the economy, but this has been a useful tax credit for many who are trying to work with the economic times. Someone like you should also like this because it is not a free handout to the poor...it is a free handout to the MIDDLE CLASS with benefits to our nation energy wise down the road.

And besides...the old energy tax credit began two years ago. They made it stricter this year under Obama in terms of what qualifies, but the original credit began during the Bush era.

Hook, just a couple points... I was involved in the OVI checkpoint discussion too, and when murf expressed his opinion about the motivation behind the checkpoints it was just that, an opinion, not a lie. I don't share his opinion but him holding that opinion doesn't make him a liar imo.

Secondly, when people express a view that national healthcare will be forced on Americans I think what they are saying is that the cost of the healthcare will eventually force the private insurance companies out of business. While we can debate whether that will happen or not, in my opinion it's a debate that needs to be held. The author of this national healthcare plan (Tom Daschle) is on record as saying that the elderly are going to have to just suck it up, take their pain and accept their conditions (my words not his but effectually equal.) This expected downgrade in the quality of care is what many of us fear. I don't want a one-size fits all healthcare plan that has the potential to someday say to my mother that they will no longer pay for her medicine because she's quite old now and it just wouldn't be fiscally expedient. Call me crazy but that doesn't seem so far fetched to me. So in this scenario the reason the private insurance companies lose vs. the government plan is because they offer better care, but it's more expensive. And the reason it's more expensive is because the private insurer offers more and better care. So then the government healthcare roles soar while private care diminishes. I'm willing to hear differing views......

**************************************************************************************

"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

Yogi Berra

When I was in law school, 3 different health insurance companies refused to offer me coverage because of a "pre-existing condition".

What was my pre-existing condition you might ask?

Gluten intolerance...no joke...

"Falc, just because I respond, please dont take it to mean that I give a sh!t about you. I respond because you are the type of person that needs to be told what a whack job you are or else you will go on thinking your behavior is normal and accepted. "

"Yeah--because it sure does work well in places like England and Canada. LMMFAO."

All of my friends from Canada and England (total of about 8 or 9) all prefer their system to ours. 3 of them are Republicans...go figure!

"Falc, just because I respond, please dont take it to mean that I give a sh!t about you. I respond because you are the type of person that needs to be told what a whack job you are or else you will go on thinking your behavior is normal and accepted. "

I don't know anyone from England, but have been reading all kinds of material on this healthcare system.
Still think we have the best care in the world.
Cost is crazy, but when compared to your individual right to live vs some dollars and cents...I will take the higher cost to save my childs life. and out of the hands of govt.

I hear all of the bullsh!t, but nobody has explained to how this new system will save me money.
I work for a small company that can barely afford to offer healthcare now.
You are going to force my comapny to purchase insr.
The Insr. weazels will up the price knowing that everysingle american is now forced to carry it, just like they did when some states forced the auto insr.
There will be hidden riders all over your plans.

In order for this to work...you need honesty from....
THE FEDERAL GOVT
LAWYERS
INSURANCE AGENTS

See my point....
On top of that little piece of mind, understand that they will decide if you or a family member, are worthy of living.





"Despite how the conflict has been portrayed by our glorious media, if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death."

This right to decide is such a b.s. argument.

Apparently you guys are not aware that your insurance company you have right now can and does decide what treatment to approve. They screw over 90 year old people all the time.

Also, the cash option to pay for it yourself will still exist.

"Falc, just because I respond, please dont take it to mean that I give a sh!t about you. I respond because you are the type of person that needs to be told what a whack job you are or else you will go on thinking your behavior is normal and accepted. "

No mistake the government healthcare plan is about taking control of the healthcare system. Obama likes to say you will still have options but in the bill itself on page 15-17 it states that you must be registered with your health care provider as of year one of the government plan. When you change jobs or lose your job you will have to enroll in the government plan. This will inevitably squeeze out all other health insurance and turn the system into a single payer system. Also under the Bill you will have a government team who decides for you not your doctor what care should be issued to you the patient. This will result in less tests and end the patience option of a second opion. You will be stuck with your doctor and the governments decision. Obama even admits that they will streamline healthcare and get rid of test he deems unnecessary for you the patient. Also admits that care will be determined by life expectancy. They like to call it a right to die Passage. I personally dont believe the government has any right to decide what coverage you should and should not have or make life and death decisions for the people of the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />united states.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

The Facts are is that the United States has the best Health care system in the world at the moment. Under a government controlled health care system it will only result in the deterioration our health care. IF it is already the best system and you cut costs, Doctors pay and add 47 million more Americans into the system than you will degrade health care in America for all 300 million Americans. This socialized system will end up like Canada and the UK where there are longer lines and less patient doctor interaction.

 

This Bill if passed is a destruction of the greatest health care system on the planet. If socialized medicine is the answer well than why is it that millions come to the united states for health care under a private system but yet U.S. citizens dont seek coverage in other countries. Simple answer because the World knows that the United States private health care system is the best in the world and their socialist care sucks!!!

 

 

The house bill for your reading pleasure    http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/hrdraft.pdf

 

 

 

"If socialized medicine is the answer well than why is it that millions come to the united states for health care under a private system but yet U.S. citizens dont seek coverage in other countries. "

I hate to break this to you, but people, int he past 5-10 years have been going to Latin America, India, Signapore, ect for surgeries because they are less than half the cost here.

I will get you a link.

CB

Found it...

http://news.health.com/2009/04/08/traveling-treatment/

Bronco...where you reading that the gov't is going to pick up your tab on healthcare?
The only thing I have seen, is that you will be demanded to carry insr. that is comming out of your own pocket.



Did you honestly try to liberal twist life and death?

No, my insr. company does not have a right to decide if my child dies or not.
I don't know what type of coverage you ahve, but I am allowed and would demand more opinions.

In this Utopian world you guys are living in...the evidence is all over the place...

Your child will die, if some weazel lawyer type decides that he is not worthy of spending the cash.

"Despite how the conflict has been portrayed by our glorious media, if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death."

"No, my insr. company does not have a right to decide if my child dies or not.
I don't know what type of coverage you ahve, but I am allowed and would demand more opinions."

I hate to break this to you Murf, but if there is some radical experimental treatment that costs 5 million dollars and the likelihood of your kid surviving is unlikley, your insurance company isnt going to pay for it. Not sure what you are smoking, but you need to read your policy.

The last time I checked, there werent thousands of kids in Canada and England dying because of the health care system not covering them.

Maybe you should check your facts, chief...

"Falc, just because I respond, please dont take it to mean that I give a sh!t about you. I respond because you are the type of person that needs to be told what a whack job you are or else you will go on thinking your behavior is normal and accepted. "

We are talking about basic cancer patients...not some radical ordeal here.
I have psoted the links...yes, people in England are beign denied care based on cost.



"Despite how the conflict has been portrayed by our glorious media, if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death."

I read the story in your original link about the 22 year old alcholic that was denied a liver due to the beleif that others who were not addicts would give the tax payers more bang for the buck on the transplant.

Can't say I disagree...its the same with smokers...I have no problem deciding between two people and one of them got themselves there by drinking or smoking and one didnt. Its self infliction versus blind bad luck.

Where is the cancer link?

"Falc, just because I respond, please dont take it to mean that I give a sh!t about you. I respond because you are the type of person that needs to be told what a whack job you are or else you will go on thinking your behavior is normal and accepted. "

Can't say I disagree...its the same with smokers...I have no problem deciding between two people and one of them got themselves there by drinking or smoking and one didnt. Its self infliction versus blind bad luck.

 

Thats right that is exactly what this is about desions being made by government committee on who deserves health care and who doesnt

 

Well shes 80 years old and wont live that much longer give her a pill instead of surgery.

He eats McDonalds every day cant possibly see why we would waste money on heart surgery.

This individual uses drugs let them die!!

 

So on and So on

 

What gives government the right to decide?

 

Government take over of our lives and how we live is what this is. Cant wait till Nazi Pelosi hands out government pamphlets on how we should behave if we wish to get treatment.

 

RATION , RATION, RATION : SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT PLAN

 

 

Granted, these are also extreme and rare situations we are talking about.

the stories I have read about did not deal with emergency heart surgeries or cancer treatment. The ones I read about were some idiot that smoked for 40 years and wanted the same priority as a little girl for a lung transplant - sorry pal, not in my book. If you want to smoke all your life, you deserve what you get (and I say this as someone who smokes when I drink).

Organ transplants are rare enough as it is. The people who are more likely to survive longer should be given deference. I have zero problems saying that.

"Falc, just because I respond, please dont take it to mean that I give a sh!t about you. I respond because you are the type of person that needs to be told what a whack job you are or else you will go on thinking your behavior is normal and accepted. "

I am shocked at your comments on this.

You simply can't give the govt. the power to play God with peoples lives.
There are several major issues with your thinking.

#1--if you are going to give the govt. the green light to play God and and decide who lives or dies, then we are no longer a free nation and we are no better than any 3rd world country that murders millions of people.
The very foundation and structure of this nation would be lost forever. Land of the Free would be the biggest lie on the planet, b/c you would not even have the freedom to live or die, it will be decided for you and god forbid your child gets sick, you have to just sit there and watch some people in a room decide if your child lives or dies...
How fuching sick and twisted is this?

#2--It would turn political in 2 seconds, each new President will be picking a new DEATH CZAR, and depending on that party ticketm would depend on hwo many people get to live and how many people get to die.
Then what..anyone with brown eyes has a higher risk for cancer than people with blue eyes, so to save cost, lets just go ahead and kill them off to save money, it will only benefit society.

The stories might be rare, but 1 story is scary enough.

How about this example...
A smoker has lung cancer...needs a transplant...great guy, great leader, one of th emost loved in the country, but he smoked, so we can't save him b/c this guy over here never smoked and never drank, lived the perfect outline of what the govt demanded...yet, he is a pedophile.

By the books the pedophile survives, the great guy dies!

YOU CAN'T PLAY GOD...FUCH THE MONEY ISSUES, YOU CAN'T PLAY GOD...SOCIETY HAS SURVICED THIS LONG WITHOUT THE GOVT RESORTING TO GENOCIDE BASED ON HEALTHY HABITS.

You want reform...go after the medication scam...stop taking pills for every single issue in your life.
Instead of Emergency rooms, unless it is a life or death issue, you must go to an urgent care or govt run clinic, and they will decide if you need emergency care...

How can liberals calim to be an activist for the people, then turn around and support a new form a govt that will allow poor people to die at a higher rate than rich...isn't this exactly what you claim to fight for?


"Despite how the conflict has been portrayed by our glorious media, if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death."

"How can liberals calim to be an activist for the people, then turn around and support a new form a govt that will allow poor people to die at a higher rate than rich...isn't this exactly what you claim to fight for?"

They have never been. They used this "we are for the people" front to bring in their commie/socialism while the "useful idiots" who actually believe its for the people, fall in line. Way to go guys.

I find it hard to believe there is actually one person out there that wants to give the government complete control over our health care system. To allow the government to control the most important decisions for you and your families life. To put your child, Mother and Grand mothers lives in the hand of a committee were 9 will be selected personally by the president.

 

WoW!! Amazing how willing we are to give government complete control of our lives. I guess all of our freedoms wont be taken away at gun point but happily given away.

 

That is funny, thinking of the cold war for example, Russia spent all their efforts in the arms race when all they had to do is walk across the border unarmed to take this country over, and here we are just voting are freedoms away....way to go guys.

There are citizens out there that need our help to ensure them adequate, affordable health care for their families. Its a shame some would choose to deny them that because of ridiculous fears over "communism". Time to join the 21st century.

"I think I will try to stick to conversations that don't involve politics." - murf, April 17 2009

There are citizens out there that need our help to ensure them adequate, affordable health care for their families. Its a shame some would choose to deny them that because of ridiculous fears over "communism". Time to join the 21st century.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They already recieve FREE healthcare.. it is called medicaid/medicare.
Nobody is ever denied medical attention in an emergency room.
Preventive care is another issue, and I am sure we could come with some type of system or program to help that out, liberals are great at creating programs.

If the 21st century is based on living behind the cmmunist rule and a taliban style of govt., I don't want any part of it.
You simply can't defend losing your rights as an American Citizen!

Do you not understand what you are wanting here?


As far as communist rule...
Lets just look at a few things in modern day 21 century ....

Govt run checkpoints to screen citizens on pulbic roads.....check
Healthcare run by a "Health CZAR"....check
Gun Control.....check
Freedom of religion.....check..the thumpers always trying to create laws to force you to live like them...taliban style...check
Taxation without representation.....check
Freedom of speach....check...liberals wanting to shut down talk radio...
Right to assemble....not without a permit in a public setting...check

No, we are far away from cummunist rule...
WOW!
What is next, standing in line for bread and sh!t paper?



"Despite how the conflict has been portrayed by our glorious media, if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death."

"The very foundation and structure of this nation would be lost forever. Land of the Free would be the biggest lie on the planet, b/c you would not even have the freedom to live or die"

Murf, people die against their will all the time, every day, every hour. Immortality is not one of the rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. People will die that don't want to die no matter what system of health care we use, and even though that sucks on an individual level it is really a good thing because if people didn't die there would be like 50 billion people on the planet right now and that would really suck for all of us.

Personally, I think cost does play a role in health care whether we want to admit it or not. That is why it costs money to buy private health care plans, and guess what, the rich people typically buy better plans that cover greater percentages of more treatment options. So if I am dieing and the treatment I want isn't covered by my plan should I blame capitalism if I die just like you want to blame the government? If so, capitalism has a lot of deaths to explain. Let's face it Murf, no one wants to die but it's something we all will have to do. I don' think it makes much sense to spend $500 million to extend the life of an 88-year-old person by 6 months. If we had an unlimited supply of money and resources then sure, but we don't. Granted if that person is your mother you would feel differently, but should these decisions be made by the people most emotionally affected? Wouldn't that bankrupt out system rather quickly and that would hurt everyone?

And for those saying it limits your choices, you can always pay out of pocket for any treatment you wish. Save your money and spend it on what you want, that isn't going to change.

Few people want to die but there has to be some reasonable limit, you can't expect society to give up everything for one person. And under the current system, people "choose" to die all the time because they are looking at the prospect of bankrupting their family if they choose a treatment option that carries little chance of success and a huge co-pay. Rather than make their families suffer, sometimes people just accept that it is their time. Some people don't, and they die anyway, and they leave their family with a huge debt or bankruptcy. Some people try it and extend their life a little, and their family still has a huge debt or bankruptcy. None of these choices are great -- and this is the current system. I don't understand why people are acting like all the choices are great right now and if the governent intervenes then they will suck. When people we love die, it sucks, and we will all have to deal with this probably more than once no matter who is in charge of healthcare. It's not like the current companies are running non-profits, they are in the business to make billions of dollars not to save lives, let's be real. Yes, right now we have the best health care system in the world, if you are rich. That is why people come here from around the world, because they are also rich and they want to be able to pay for special treatment. It's not rocket science. Unfortunately, if you are middle-class or poor having the best health care system that you can't afford doesn't mean jack. This is a country that once put the middle-class first and I'm hoping we start doing that again soon while we still have a middle-class left. People don't go to Canda for treatment because they are not covered by the Canadian system since they don't pay taxes into it, again not rocket science. If Canada wanted to extend their free system to Americans for 6 months I'm sure plenty of people would go.

I don't want to die either, but would I choose to rather than ask my kids to spend their life savings? I hope so. And hopefully I'll have the balls to just off myself at that point rather than spend a bunch of money so I can suffer in anguish for months, but that's easy to say now so we shall see. I am not defending a gov. program, there is nothing to defend since there is no consensus proposal, I am just saying that yes costs will always play a role under any system and people will have to die due to resource constraints, including financial. That is just a sad fact of life, let's not blame it on the government. I know it is easy to blame everything on the government but death? That's a little over-the-top.

"We do do, and we do it at a very, very high level," Lewis said.

Reading the posts I must admit things have changed very little around here.

Bronco, you used the example that while in Law School you were refused insurance by three different insurance companies for a pre existing condition but later said you have insurance. So what seems to be the problem? Should we completely change the best healthcare system in the world (I didn't say best healthcare INSURANCE) because a small portion of Americans can't get it? It seems to me you fall into the everything has to be FAIR category which is how the USSR, CUBA and China got their starts. Life isn't fair and mandating it be so has shown to be a pipe dream and destroyer of freedom. If you want fair move to Cuba.

Pelosi's plan (its not Obama's) does nothing to make healthcare in this country better. Fact is hospitals drive up the cost of private insurance by shifting the costs of treating non payers and underpaid government insurance onto the private insurance companies. This is a fact and explains why aspirin costs $10 for someone with insurance while a selfpay person pays a dime.

The easy way to fix these problems it to open up VA hospitals to those who can't or refuse to pay for insurance. They can get really marginal care like our Veterans get and it would drastically lower costs for public hospitals as well as insurance companies. If you don't have insurance, use the emergency room and don't pay, 25% of your wages will be garnished for life or until you pay off your bill. That includes welfare payments.

Sorry, but the government run programs are going bankrupt and the corruption in these programs is staggering. Anyone who is on any Government plan will have their records and profile stored electronically and any abuse will quickly show up using state of the art search programs. A doctor who have a govt insured person show up at their office can quickly see their past treatments and determine if this person has "other" issues.

In any case the current plan out there is utter garbage and we could spend a small $30 billion a year covering all those without insurance without having to scrap the current system. Thats a third of the cost the $1 trillion plan the prez and Pelosi are pushing would cost and we could ACTUALLY keep our current coverage if our employer (in most cases) decide to do so.



_____________________________________________
January 6,1991: The last post season victory for the Bengals.

How is this Bill trying to help low income families or individuals afford health care?

 

 

 AFFORDABILITY:

AFFORDABILITY CREDITS

§ Effective 2013, sliding scale affordability credits are provided to individuals and families between 133% to 400% of poverty. That means the credits phase out completely for an individual with $43,320 in income and a family of four with $88,200 in income (2009).

§ Premiums: The sliding scale credits limit individual family spending on premiums for the essential benefit package to no more than 1.5% of income for those with the lowest income and phasing up to no more than 11% of income for those at 400% of poverty.

§ Cost sharing: The affordability credits also subsidize cost sharing on a sliding scale basis, phasing out at 400% of poverty, ensuring that covered benefits are accessible.

§ The Health Insurance Exchange administers the affordability credits in relationship with other federal and state entities, such as local Social Security offices and Medicaid agencies.

 

 

In this bill a family of four that makes $88,200 will be responsible for 11 % of their income or roughly $10,000.

 

How is this affordable to a family of four at this income bracket in todays economy? It isnt and American families they are trying to so call cover will still struggle affording healthcare as well as every day necessities. So this bill doesnt seem to have interest in taking cost burdens away from the middle class but instead only wants to insure governmental control over are everyday life.

 

Now lets not forget the illegals from the house bill page 114:

 

3 SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED

4 ALIENS.

5 Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments

6 for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are

7 not lawfully present in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />United States.

 

Hmmm, the bill does not cover illegals and puts an 11% tax on middle class families. This bill will obviously help the people they so call say their trying to help.

 

Well, I dont know if I want to pay that high of premiums can I keep my current coverage.

Starting on page 15:

 

SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT

21 COVERAGE.

22 (a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COV23

ERAGE DEFINED.Subject to the succeeding provisions of

24 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov25

erage under this division, the term grandfathered healthmt 6201 C:\TEMP\HRDRAFT.XML HOLCPC

1 insurance coverage means individual health insurance

2 coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the

3 first day of Y1 (as defined in section 100(c)) if the fol4

lowing conditions are met:

5 (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.

6 (A) IN GENERAL.Except as provided in

7 this paragraph, the individual health insurance

8 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll

9 any individual in such coverage if the effective

10 date of coverage is on or after the first day of

11 Y1.

12 (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PER13

MITTED.Subparagraph (A) shall not affect

14 the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an

15 individual who is covered as of such first day.

16 (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR

17 CONDITIONS.Subject to paragraph (3), the issuer

18 does not change any of its terms or conditions, in19

cluding benefits and cost-sharing, from those in ef20

fect as of the day before the first day of Y1.

21 (3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES.

22 The issuer cannot vary in an individual market pol23

icy by any factor other than area (as defined by the

24 Commissioner).

 

 

Well, I guess I will be able to as long as I dont change jobs, look for other plans or my insurance provider makes changes to provisions. Good thing the governments letting us have choices.

 

So, let me see were going to have a government plan that taxs the middle class 11% does not cover illegals and gives people little options but to accept the government health plan. Now, this looks like the reform we need.

 

 

READ THE BILL NOT OBAMAS LIPS!!!

"Bronco, you used the example that while in Law School you were refused insurance by three different insurance companies for a pre existing condition but later said you have insurance. So what seems to be the problem? Should we completely change the best healthcare system in the world (I didn't say best healthcare INSURANCE) because a small portion of Americans can't get it? It seems to me you fall into the everything has to be FAIR category which is how the USSR, CUBA and China got their starts. Life isn't fair and mandating it be so has shown to be a pipe dream and destroyer of freedom. If you want fair move to Cuba."

Its pretty simple, genius.

No job but in law school - no insurance because of a dietary problem (pre-existing condition).
Have lawyer job after graduating a pass the bar exam - insurance (albeit crappy insurance).

Yes, we should change it. The amount of wealth you have shouldnt dictate whether or not you should have access to basic health care. I dont look at health care like a luxury. I look at it like an essential human right. We differ on that. I know you dont think everyone should have access to health insurance. I get it.

Whe this changes, we will still have the best health care in the world. Eventually, we will rid ourselves of the moronic insurance companies that dont care about your health, only the almighty dollar.

The weird thing is that I thought all of this competition in the private sector would result in cheaper insurance and a better product. Go figure!

"Bronco, you used the example that while in Law School you were refused insurance by three different insurance companies for a pre existing condition but later said you have insurance. So what seems to be the problem? Should we completely change the best healthcare system in the world (I didn't say best healthcare INSURANCE) because a small portion of Americans can't get it? It seems to me you fall into the everything has to be FAIR category which is how the USSR, CUBA and China got their starts. Life isn't fair and mandating it be so has shown to be a pipe dream and destroyer of freedom. If you want fair move to Cuba."

Its pretty simple, genius.

No job but in law school = no insurance because of a dietary problem (pre-existing condition).
Have lawyer job after graduating and passing the bar exam = insurance (albeit crappy insurance).

Yes, we should change it. The amount of wealth you have shouldnt dictate whether or not you should have access to basic health care. I dont look at health care like a luxury. I look at it like an essential human right. We differ on that. I know you dont think everyone should have access to health insurance. I get it. When this changes (and it will inevitably change to universal), we will still have the best health care in the world. Eventually, we will rid ourselves of the moronic insurance companies that dont care about your health, only the almighty dollar.

The weird thing is that I thought all of this competition in the private insurance sector would result in cheaper insurance and a better product. I wonder why that didnt happen...

Here is about 2/3rds of the flow chart depicting the procedures delineated in the house bill. (couldn't get the other 1/3rd to scan) This is what the Liberals are trying to shove down your throats. This is what Nancy Pelosi blocked the house republicans from sending to their constituents....because now we're being so transparent and all...

JB,

Wasnt the reason it wasnt released because it was proven to be inaccurate. I could have sworn I recall a few republican congressmen conceding the chart was not accurate.

OK JB, take out a couple hexagrams...that should look a lot better.

Still never heard why there is so much confidence in gov running things after SS, medicare etc..

Also, is eating a basic human right? People go hungry in America, will the gov step in and control the entire food industry now? People are homeless, is shelter a basic human right? Should the gov provide homes for everyone? You know, the pursuit of happiness is is a right, can't wait to see what the gov is going to do for me there.

"Eventually, we will rid ourselves of the moronic insurance companies that dont care about your health, only the almighty dollar. "

Bronco, I am not going to argue with you there, but to think Nancy Pelosi really cares is somewhat credulous.

Not sure bronco I didn't hear anything about that. Did it have a few technical mistakes or is the whole thing wrong?

Nothing like taxing the middle class 11%!

That pretty much explains it, it is creating a tax, hidden under the umbrella of healthcare.

I still can't get over some people ignoring the very fact that you are about to place your childs life in the hands of the govt, and some people are cheering for it.

Amazing, how sad this generation truly is.
We don't have the backbone to fight anymore.
We would rather bash our troops than the enemy.
We are willing to turn over basic citizen rights.
We are willing to destroy the middle class family.

It truly is a sad day in america, when people are willing to allow govt. to decide on your childs life based on a few dollar and cents.

Stop trying to justify this communist act.
There are many ways to help the poor with healthcare...revamping the entire system and giving up your freedom is about the last option anyone should think of.

Open up govt run hospitals and clinics...
You don't have medical coverage, then you can go there...that would be about the smartest thing.

I am shocked...

I can make a firm pledge, under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes. Barack Obama

 

What happened to these words?

 

Under his obamacare an individual making $43,000. Will be taxed 11% more on his income.

 

Also, we have the cap and tax bill that the congressional budget office estimates it will cost Americans in lower income brackets 3.3% of their salary.

 

Thats almost a 15% tax increase on the middle class in his first 6 months of office.

 

Combine that with a 25 to 33% federal tax on the middle class.

A Sales tax 8.5%

State tax depending on state estimated 2%

Property tax?

Gas tax?

And all the other dam taxs

 

This increase will put a tax burden on the middle class pushing over 50%.

 

The last question I have if it only takes 6 months to raise our outlandish taxs another 15% if he has his way, than will the middle class have a pot to piss in when his 4 year term is up??

 

 

The weird thing is that I thought all of this competition in the private insurance sector would result in cheaper insurance and a better product. I wonder why that didnt happen...

If you had actually read my post you would know why, because hospitals are shifting the cost of treating NON PAYERS onto the insurance companies. Any hospital that accepts Medicare or Medicaid patients has to BY LAW treat anyone who comes thru the doors. The only way to make up the cost of treating these people is to overcharge PRIVATE insurance companies since Govt plans have set in stone reimbursement rates.

Since the private insurance companies don't have the ability to MANDATE costs to the hospitals like the government, they have little choice but to raise premiums as they are gouged by hospitals.

In actuality, the practice of cost shifting is actually weeding out competition by making it almost impossible for any new insurance company to get started since they can not compete with major carriers like the Blues or United who have the ability to deal with the massive costs government regulations impose on private insurers more efficiently than an upstart.

_____________________________________________
January 6,1991: The last post season victory for the Bengals.

Remember when Bush #1 went back on his read my lips no new taxes quote? I still see that 18 years later. Not a peeb on Obama's lies, amazing. Thats is why the sheep will continue to vote for Obama and if Foxnews reports it, then its just right wing propaganda.

I have a question. Is this 11% taxed to you only if you opt for the national healthcare? Or is it taxed even if you are already paying for you own private insurance? Are we going to be forced to pay twice now?

JB, that is a good question.

 

The way I read it is no you only have to pay the 11% if you have national health care.

 

But, the catch is that inevitably you will be forced into the National health care system. In the bill the only way you can keep your insurance is if it is never changed at all. So if you ever change your job or your health care is modified in any way than you will be a happy member of obamacare.

 

But, read the bill for yourself. I didnt read the whole bill but if you read the first 150 pages you will get the basics of it. http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/hrdraft.pdf

Thanks Fulcher that link helped clarify some things for me. For instance, the following subsection from the bill:

(b) ESTABLISHMENT OF INCOME TIERS. - For purposes of this section, the Commissioner shall establish 6 income tiers, equally spaced in progressive manner as specified by the Commissioner, for affordable credit eligible individuals with family income starting at or below 133 percent of FPL (federal poverty level) and ending at 400 percent of FPL.

I believe I saw another part of the bill that stated the maximum premium for the basic coverage will be 10% and the minimum 2%. So the tier 6 families pay 10% of their monthly salary and the tier 1 families pay 2% of thiers.

So if my math is right the 6 tiers (rounded off) are as follows:

1. 133% and Below
2. 133% to 200%
3. 200% to 267%
4. 267% to 333%
5. 333% to 400%
6. 400% and Above

The FPL changes depending on your household size so I found a handy FPL calculator athttp://www.safetyweb.org/tools/fplcalc2009.asp. You might want to use this to check into your own situation. In order for a typical family of 5 to reach tier 6 their annual income would have to reach $103,200 and thier 10% monthly premium (1/12th of annual income) would be $860.00. For that same family of 5 to stay in tier 1 they would have to make less than $34,320 per year and their 2% monthly premium would be $57.20. It's late and I had 2 glasses of merlot and that healthcare bill is about as easy to read as a woman going through menopause so forgive me if the math is fuzzy.

It also goes on to say that the premiums will be geographically adjusted and that certain people will be eligible for reduced rates but it's way too confusing and convoluted to trod through right now without a pair of bullchit proof hip waders......

Sorry.....try this link.

http://www.safetyweb.org/tools/fplcalc2009.asp

Regarding this 11% additional tax on the middle class for healthcare:

It's somewhat remarkable to me that I haven't heard of this anywhere but on this thread. Is this truth, or is it another ignorant rant or is it another Murf-type lie?

Please provide a specific, substantative link that spells out a specific proposal to tax the middle class (and I'm assuming that means families making less than $100k or so a year) an additional 11% of their income to acquire and/or keep their healthcare.

I'll certainly feel outrage if it's substantiated. But I suspect it's another phony fabrication from the right.

Another phony fabrication, which has been soundly exposed on these pages in past years, is this myth about the middle class paying over 30% of its income in income taxes in the current system. It doesn't. Most pay less than 10%.

I'm no expert on the cap and trade debate, but we're already paying a heavy price in terms of national debt for not having an alternative energy plan in our current system. It's decades past due to get out of this oil addiction.

Are going to pay for military intervention in the middle east and South America for the next 50 years (which is an energy expense, despite phony political spin of promoting democracy) or are we going to make a scientific investment in our country's future?

It's no mystery why the more cognitive thinkers come down on the side of science.

It's somewhat remarkable to me that I haven't heard of this anywhere but on this thread. Is this truth, or is it another ignorant rant or is it another Murf-type lie?
~~~~~~~~~~

Of course your ignorant azz didn't hear any of this b/c Olberman would never put facts on TV.
Then again, you called me out on this, and I was not even the author...
Nice job rainman...any other information you want to get wrong today.

Stay away from real life facts, you look stupid when you try to make sense.

~~~~~~~~~

Obama is just another piece of sh!t politician.

Poor, thin-skinned Murf. Stop crying and fix your mascera, sweetheart.

I didn't accuse you of lying on this thread. I was merely questioning if others were lying like you have in others.

It's hard for you Jerry Springer guest wannabe's to navigate the English language.

Once again....you have failed to prove anything about a lie that I have told....

As others have found out, when you claim that I do something, I will not allow you to get away with it, without showing the facts.
Once again, you have no facts.

Typical liberal idiot...shoot the mouth, place head in the sand, and hide from all real life issues.

You said half the cars that go through OVI checkpoints are ticketed. You lied.

You said that passengers are searched merely because they are present at OVI checkpoints. You lied.

You said that OVI checkpoints are motivated by revenue enhancement. You lied.

You said that OVI checkpoints are Nazi Germany tactics. You lied.

You can't help it. Lying is a lifestyle for you. It's the only way you can prove to your ranting self that you're some sort of victim.

JB, I have to say good work. I dont see anywhere else someone has broken it down that well.

 

Also, youre right it is 10% instead of 11% for individuals over 400% FPL.

 

I did some math of my own using your link. And have come up with some examples below on what individuals might see as their payments for National health care on a monthly and yearly basis.

 

  Individual         FPL%           MONTHLY COST                  YEARLY COST                                                                           

$25,000               230                       $83.3                                    $1,000

$50,000               461                       $417                                     $5,000

$75,000               692                       $625                                     $7,500

 

 

FAMILY 4     

$50,000                226                      $166                                     $2000

$75,000                340                      $500                                     $6000

$100,000              453                      $833                                     $10,000

 

 

This calculation is with some assumptions that the 6 tiers will be divided equally. So you have 2,4,6,8,10% increase with the 133% tier not paying since I believe that tier already qualifies for medicade.

 

The National healthcare will be devastating to me and my family of 4. Currently I am paying about $300 a month and cant afford the $800 monthly bill. I personally dont see how this bill will help families unless they are at close to the bottom Tier but at the same time it punishes families above the $75,000 income bracket.

 

JB, you obviously did the math so what is your thoughts on National health care and effects on the middle class as it stands in this bill.

 

And, HOOK I posted the link twice now.

 

 

 

What if any are the deductibles? Since there are no pre-existing conditions that can be turned down, I wonder if you can just forgo this insurance and sign up at the ER.

I am sure if presented in this manner to the public and there was a vote, it would not pass by a huge margin. I think thats why they are in a hurry to pass this through before anybody has time to read it. Also, I am sure there will be modifications to the "poverty rate".

Fulcher, my thoughts are that this plan is just another way for the president to redistribute the wealth. It will be done on the backs of the middle class, as usual. My family will be in tier 5 even though I am retired now. But in my case, I have a pension that covers my healthcare premiums. But they are not contractually obligated to provide it so it can be taken away at any time. It's not the best plan and I still have a hefty minimum to cover before my 80%-20% copay kicks in but it is much better than nothing. What I'm afraid of is the government making a power grab for private pension funds in the name of "fairness" or "the greater good." I'm also fearful my pension fund will be forced onto the government plan within the 5 year window. My wife and my grandson are both on her work insurance so they'll be forced onto the public teat after the 5 years too. So if I lose my retirement healthcare for any reason after this bill becomes law I will not even have the option to join my wife's plan because of the day 1 provision in this bill. I am rooting for a grass roots surge among the blue dog democrats because right now they're the only thing standing in the way of this repulsive scheme.

And Homey, if you try to get away with showing up at the emergency room you'll be rewarding with a 2.5% income tax surcharge. My advice is to change your name to Homey Rodriguez then disappear after every emergency room visit.

Vulture, my base pay is less than 50K and I pay $149 a month for a family healthcare plan, which is contractually 15% of the plan's cost. Do the math, and my current plan costs over $800 a month.

Where is my tax increase? Even if the darkest critics' allegations that we don't get to choose our plan is correct (which I think is near hilarious exaggeration) this middle class worker is going to come out of this proposal with a 0% tax increase, and most likely a tax cut.

I suspected the issue was being distorted. Thanks for the confirmation.

That 10% tax increase for working class Americans is a gross misunderstanding at the least, and a shameful fabrication by some who should know better.

"And Homey, if you try to get away with showing up at the emergency room you'll be rewarding with a 2.5% income tax surcharge. My advice is to change your name to Homey Rodriguez then disappear after every emergency room visit."


LMAO. And I'm convinced that paying for basically all of Mexico to have health benefits is not in the best interest of the AMERICAN PEOPLE. So, as long as we're "Pumping Up The Volume" with the Pres--then I say we rise up from the cafeteria tables and stab these dumbazzes with our plastic forks for trying to bring about this sh*t again. F Blue Dress (Clinton). F Osama.

God, I used to love that movie.





"So he got fired? Big deal. It's happened to the best of us. So he got kicked out of his house by his 400 lb'ed wife?!?!? That's probably better for him anyways."-OldSchooler on ChrisMBHater's absence

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090727/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul

Non-partisan group comes to conclusion that private companies can compete with government plan.

"Falc, just because I respond, please dont take it to mean that I give a sh!t about you. I respond because you are the type of person that needs to be told what a whack job you are or else you will go on thinking your behavior is normal and accepted. "

You said half the cars that go through OVI checkpoints are ticketed. You lied.
~~~~~~
Again, that was based on a checkpoint oustide of Indy...I have stated that many times, but in your typical liberal nut job fashion, you ignore the facts...



You said that passengers are searched merely because they are present at OVI checkpoints. You lied.
~~~~~~~~~~~
If passengers are not checked at checkpoints, then please explain to me how 4 people are cited for possesion of weed in 1 car, and in another car, a guy was cited for having open warrants...do the people in the car just freak out and start telling on themselves, or maybe, just maybe, the cops FORCE everyone in the car to show some type of ID..
Again..you are a liberal nut job, so your tactics are failing once again.

You said that OVI checkpoints are motivated by revenue enhancement. You lied.
~~~~~~
I stand by that OPINION...think about it the stats of the checkpoint...100+ cars..1 OVI citation...(that is just an exxample), but it seems to me that if you are calling them OVI checkpoints, but most of the checkpoints have very little OVI citations and you know this, then why have them, and why give someone a seatbelt violation, or a burned out turn signal citation, or other petty revenue enhancing citations...
So based on my opinion, they are revenue generated...
Again, your tactics have failed.

You said that OVI checkpoints are Nazi Germany tactics. You lied.
~~~~~~~~~~~
That would be another opinion and yes, in this tax paying americans opinion, there is little seperation between the Nazi checkpoints and the revenue enhancing checkpoints in America...
You are forced to stop for govt. officials and show your papers. They search your car and force everyone in the car to show papers.
Sounds about the same....the end result is obviously not the same, but the same exact tactic.

In my opinion it is a direct violation of the 4th adm...but we toos out bill of rights and freedoms based onteh liberal agenda everyday anymore, so who cares right?


You can't help it. Lying is a lifestyle for you. It's the only way you can prove to your ranting self that you're some sort of victim
~~~~~~~~~~
Barney, you have to try harder with your liberal twisting...the liberals live off of the victim tit.
You mistake basic facts with soemone trying to be a victim...as usual, you are wrong and not even in teh same world as everyday normal society.
I point out double standards and I am not afraid to point out the obvious..
I know you hate that..a white guy, with an opinion, based on facts...God that must suck for a liberal to deal with that.

Now, put your squirt gun down Dewey and relax....(Dewey from the "not other teen movie") Seems to fit.

~~~~~~~~~~
Healthcare issue...
Thsi entire plan is nothing more than another azz raping of the middle class.
Paying for the fuching illegals....paying for the poor....and getting nothing in return but higher cost and deeper in debt.
Thanks guys, nothing like pissing on the middle class AGAIN and trying to hide the agenda.
BTW DEWEY...who are all about the tx breaks and all of that tax bullsh!t....YOU NEED TO HAVE A FUCHING JOB TO PAY TAXES...that is something you fail to understand...Ohio has been devistated by job loss...HElllllllloooooooo anyone home?
Yet, we keep making more and more restrictions.

The Clunker rebate the auto industry is trying to pull off...another liberal fuching idiot program...
2004 Ford Explorer with little body damage, and just over 100k on miles...blue book 4k maybe less...
Would be a nice used car for someone in need of a car...NOPE...can't be resold, must be junked out....

How on earth the fuching morons are not being called to the carpet on a daily basis, is a crime and the media should be ashamed of themselves.
Keep cheering and throwing rose pedals at his feet...one day you will wake up.

"Despite how the conflict has been portrayed by our glorious media, if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death."

So based on the numbers above....
My cost will go up 250.00 per paycheck, since I get paid biweekly...
Nice...maybe I can work two jobs so I can feed my kids...

Or just quit my job...
Get free house/free food/free healthcare/free education at a private school and my gas and electric at 10% of my bill.

I am an idiot for even going to work
Lets all just quit our jobs and live life in the Pelosi world....


LMFAO...you can't even get angry anymore...it is pointless.

Murf,

 

 Actually I am with you it seems harder and harder these days to live in Middle class America.

The premiums on the obamacare will squeeze out another $500 a month out of my wallet which has nothing but lint in it anyhow.

 

This bill is nothing more than an ever increasing barrage of attacks on Middle America that seems to be forcing us to just throw our hands up and surrender.

 

Hell, just take my house and car or whatever mediocre possessions I might have. The new American dream is to wake up and hopefully make it to the Bread line.

 

Bronco,

 

Please explain to me how the house bill allows for any competition. Maybe I am reading it wrong but it seams to me in pages 15-17 that it is forcing you into National healthcare. However youre a lawyer and could probably shed better light into how that translates.

 

Hook, I'm almost certain I read in the plan that the answer to the question about choosing your plan is that for the first three years all you'll be able to get is the basic government plan (one size fits all). After that they will make available an "enhanced" plan, a "premium" plan and a "premium plus" plan, all at increased rates of course. The premium plus plan will include dental and vision care.

"So based on the numbers above....
My cost will go up 250.00 per paycheck, since I get paid biweekly...
Nice...maybe I can work two jobs so I can feed my kids..."

Maybe this time you're not lying. Maybe this time you're just exposing yourself as a math-challenged dolt.

If your healthplan "cost" (what you and your employer pay) goes up $500 a month based on the chart provided, that means the total monthly cost of your current plan is zero, assuming you're making 75k for a family of four.

Hey, if the proposal goes through as advertised, keep your current coverage of zero dollars. Your puppet masters will cheer you on (while laughing at you).

I can understand why you lie. You're witless. If you truly understood what your montly plan cost is, the public option would probably be cheaper. But you're no doubt ignorant of the real cost. Hint: It's more than zero dollars a month.

Morons like you are like the trace idiots that role through OVI checkpoints with joints openly exposed. And they scream like raving victims, much like you.

That's kind of what I was thinking Hook.

People on here seem to be under the impression that they will have to pay to keep their current plan, and pay into some government plan that only covers illegals or something.

"We do do, and we do it at a very, very high level," Lewis said.

An interesting article by an independent source about Obamacare for those who would like to keep their private insurance, their own doctors and some have some flexibility in their plan.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/news/economy/health_care_reform_obama.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009072410

Shawn Tulley. Editor of 'Fortune' -- a magazine about rich people for rich people. Rich people have a vested interest in defeating this healthcare plan. Hardly an independent source.

"I think I will try to stick to conversations that don't involve politics." - murf, April 17 2009

Too bad the argument wa about facts straight from the language in the bill itself. Other wise your argument might have at least a hint of merit.

"Too bad the argument wa about facts straight from the language in the bill itself. Other wise your argument might have at least a hint of merit."


Oh JB. Don't fret about BA--he hates his own skin. He argues against the rich white guy. But when a black professor breaks the law and is defiant about it too--then BA comes to the rescue and starts PUMPING UP THE VOLUME.

BA is the worst kind of reverse racist because he hates his own kind. Who's the Uncle Tom?





"So he got fired? Big deal. It's happened to the best of us. So he got kicked out of his house by his 400 lb'ed wife?!?!? That's probably better for him anyways."-OldSchooler on ChrisMBHater's absence

Not sure where you were going with that incoherent mess, Falc.

BTW, I think I was mistaken -- its not mustard on your shirt, its grease from one of the six hamburgers you just inhaled to keep up yourself at a svelte 300 lbs. There's a mug only a mother could love. Well, the way you turned out, looks like even mom held back. LMMFAOROFL



"I think I will try to stick to conversations that don't involve politics." - murf, April 17 2009

"BA is the worst kind of reverse racist because he hates his own kind. Who's the Uncle Tom?"

Did Falc really write this? Holy sh!t! what exactly does "his own kind" mean? Are you serious?

David Duke would be proud...

"Falc, just because I respond, please dont take it to mean that I give a sh!t about you. I respond because you are the type of person that needs to be told what a whack job you are or else you will go on thinking your behavior is normal and accepted. "

"Did Falc really write this? Holy sh!t! what exactly does "his own kind" mean? Are you serious?"


Sure. BA obviously is a rich white man who hates other rich white men because of his guilt. He oughta get over himself and move on. So should you, Stinco.





"So he got fired? Big deal. It's happened to the best of us. So he got kicked out of his house by his 400 lb'ed wife?!?!? That's probably better for him anyways."-OldSchooler on ChrisMBHater's absence

Dewey Trooper...
What is your point? Are you assuming that my employer will pick up the increase of the "free healthcare"..lol.
You are such pathetic b!tch boy to the liberal idiots.

This entire socialistic mess they are about to create, will destroy this country.

I wonder why the govt is so bent on the WAR ON DRUGS, but never drug test the welfare people?
Another joke...

It makes my stomach curl to even read some of this garbage.

"Despite how the conflict has been portrayed by our glorious media, if you gave any U.S. soldier a gun with two bullets in it, and he found himself in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden, there's a good chance that Nancy Pelosi would get shot twice, and Harry Reid and bin Laden would be strangled to death."

The employer most likely will be also responsible for obamacare but the chart is what each individual is responsible for not the employer. The chart emphasizes how much you will be TAXED every pay period depending on salary. I doubt your employer is going to pay your taxs.

 

 

Murf, you're so ignorant, you can't even follow, or perhaps can't understand, what your puppet masters are telling you about the health care proposals.

They are whining like bitches that no one will want to keep their other plans when they see how attractive the government option is. And then you, who can't even read a pie chart much less digest cognitive discussion, go off on how expensive the plan will be (despite the fact that no one is suggesting you have to switch to it).

Don't think I'm complaining about this, though. Reading your contorted, factless expressions of outrage has become its own special kind of amusement....like watching Mike Brown lose and Sheep like you make excuses for him.

Keep it up. It's funny entertainment.

I dont' know how many times, I have to tell you, that I dont' watch any of the shows or listen to them on the radio.
The only thing I know, is that you fail to udnerstand real life.

So if my small company has to take on more burden with this DISNEY WORLD UTOPIA, you don't think that will burden me?
My boss is just going to pay for this out of his pocket and smile?

How fuching stupid are you?
Of course I am going to pay for it jackazz, that is the problem.

When the officials of this FREE nation, force a mandatory increase in healthcare cost to a small company, guess who is going to pay for that mandatory increase for Universal Healthcare?

He takes a hit, I don't get a raise.
He takes a hit, and I will pay a higher amount on my biweekly pay.

MY God, I seriously don't know who in the fuch gave you a gun and a badge, but they shoudl be investigated for mental issues!




"Mom said that when I wear this badge you're supposed to treat me like a man of the law"
Officer Goofy Gilmore...aka TrooperHook

I finally came across a recent article on Health Care Reform that I like. Ronald Bailey is the science editor at the libertarian Reason Magazine. Here he provides a quick summary of what a free-market-based system might look like:

http://www.reason.com/news/show/135081.html

As envisaged, we pay for health insurance directly, not through employers or other third parties. This creates the incentive to shop around and educate ourselves. Health care providers consequently compete with each other and reduce costs. Information becomes readily available to help us make informed decisions. And so progress in medical treatments is driven by consumer choice. The poor receive payment vouchers from the government.

And the best part about this scenario from my perspective? Such a system evolves incrementally through trial-and-error. People have recourse to avoid elements that function poorly. We're not locked into some overarching system that was thrown together in a few months. By a bunch of reelection-driven politicians and their whiz kid wonks.

Unfortunately, neither party is interested in going there.

Murf, you're like the little retarded kid that trys to jump into adult conversation.

The insurance industry is crying because the public health plan proposal is cheaper than many of their policies. And you're outraged because of looming increases?

If you're struggling to make it in life, it's not because society is coming down on you. It's because you don't have the mental cognition to cut the mustard.

Yes Officer Gilmore, we have heard this before.
When the lawyers and the insr. industry purchased most states and forced everyone to carry Auto Insr., it was going to provide cheap insr. for everyone b/c the market will be wide open.
Yet, the market is out of control, people are forced to take money away from food and bills to give money to some multimillionaire and never get a return on thier money, b/c it pays for others who can't afford it.
The industry started playing hide and seek with the policies and raising cost based on the smallest of infranctions.
Upfront money is high, the pay out is low as long as you followed all of the rules listed in the small print.
Some places base your auto coverage and policy off of your credit report...so the middle class and the poor get a sh!t policy based on thier credit history...
Places like A1 General pop up as cheap alternatives, and poor people jump at it b/c it keeps some money thier pockets to pay for light bills and food and gas ect...
They are mainly owned by the big companies, just under a seperate name and division.
Then figure in that very fact that you don't even get to decide on this, your employer will continue to purchase the plans.
So if they can save a dollar by going with some cheap and shady place so they can avoid the illegal taxes, you are then forced to have sh!t coverage, with a million hidden riders.
So take that little idea and apply it to human lives.
You are covered under this plan for a cheap rate..we will pay for this and that and don't worry you are in good hands and we are here for you, untill you have a heart attack...well, we are only going to pay this amount b/c you still eat red meat and fast food from time to time and it clearly states in your policy that you can't have more than 3 burgers a year, you caused your own health problems and in the rider provided in your policy, we don't have to pay.
Sorry...is there any else I can help you with today?

How on earth you can faith in the people that will be running your life is amazing.
Lawyers/Insurance Companies/Govt Officials...
You want your childs life in these hands?
lol...How about a govt run daycare...controled and watched by pedophiles...about as smart as placing your childs healthcare in the hands of these idiots.

No matter how you slice it, or twist it or Obama it, this is garbage.





"Mom said that when I wear this badge you're supposed to treat me like a man of the law"
Officer Goofy Gilmore...aka TrooperHook

Lawyers and insurance companies purchased most states? There is no end to the paranoid, insane crap that you make up.

Those auto insurance laws are to protect people who are no fault victims of crashes caused by otherwise uninsured drivers. You probably don't have the cognitive ability to understand that reality. But it's astonishing how you contrive your insane stories to explain the status.

I suspect that, somewhere along the line, my taxes had to pay for your groceries. Your ignorance and your delusions don't add up to someone that can make it on his or her own.

Look like the road has been cleared:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/29/health.care/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

"No one is talking about some government takeover," (Obama) said. "I'm tired of hearing that. ... These folks need to stop scaring everybody."

"If Congress fails to act soon, Obama warned the Raleigh audience, health costs will double over the next decade, make millions more Americans uninsured and bankrupt government on both the state and federal levels."

-Obama


uh BA, why can't we just say both sides try to scare everybody.

Good point, but I would say there is much more in that way of scare tactics coming from the right. There's so much misinformation being put out there just like there was in the time leading up to the election.

"No one is talking about some government takeover," (Obama) said. "I'm tired of hearing that. ... These folks need to stop scaring everybody."

Looks like the compromise will eliminate people being forced to have insurance as well as they are eliminating the necessity of small business owners profitng under $500,000 a year to insure their employees.


Its a step in the right direction.


"Falc, just because I respond, please dont take it to mean that I give a sh!t about you. I respond because you are the type of person that needs to be told what a whack job you are or else you will go on thinking your behavior is normal and accepted. "

Lawyers and insurance companies purchased most states? There is no end to the paranoid, insane crap that you make up.
~~~~~~~~~~
Do you not understand how govt works at all?
Yes..lawyers and the insr. giants, PURCHASED certain states, by purchasing the politicians, who then turn around pass some bullsh!t laws. True or not true?

Those auto insurance laws are to protect people who are no fault victims of crashes caused by otherwise uninsured drivers
~~~~~~~~~~~~
No sh!t...I never knew that...give me a fuching break on the Mickey Mouse horse sh!t excuse.
It is extortion...no other way to look at it.
If I drive untill I am 65-70 and I have been paying some fuching millionaire since I was 16 for atuo insr. and I never have an accident, just how on earth do you fuching justify this azz raping?
To protect someone else if they are involved in an accident?
So once again, more money is forced out of your pocket, based on a socialistic agenda.



I suspect that, somewhere along the line, my taxes had to pay for your groceries. Your ignorance and your delusions don't add up to someone that can make it on his or her own.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LOL...
That is funny...




"Mom said that when I wear this badge you're supposed to treat me like a man of the law"
Officer Goofy Gilmore...aka TrooperHook

Yep, the feds already have a major back log and issues with the simple Junker plan....

Wise up people.

These idiots can't run a White Castle, let alone be in charge of your childs life.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Congress-trying-to-save-cash-apf-1149411515.html?x=0



"Mom said that when I wear this badge you're supposed to treat me like a man of the law"
Officer Goofy Gilmore...aka TrooperHook

"These idiots can't run a White Castle, let alone be in charge of your childs life."


Almost replaced my very own ChristMBHater Quote. Almost. Relax Murf--it is true. Screw up on SS, Medicare, Welfare--and coming soon to a theater near you--OsamaCare.





"So he got fired? Big deal. It's happened to the best of us. So he got kicked out of his house by his 400 lb'ed wife?!?!? That's probably better for him anyways."-OldSchooler on ChrisMBHater's absence

I just saw a special on the health care debate last night. The proponent of the Public Option in the house responded to the allegations that the government would choose when the elderly would die. He called the argument "complete bogus" and people need to read the bill.

The only aspect of that bill was the provision that would allow the government to pay for a visist with the insured's CHOSEN doctor (who the insured chose not the government) to discuss end of life decisions like DNR, life support, ect. Then purpose was to avoid the problems that occurred in the Terry Schiavo case.

"Falc, just because I respond, please dont take it to mean that I give a sh!t about you. I respond because you are the type of person that needs to be told what a whack job you are or else you will go on thinking your behavior is normal and accepted. "

I just saw a special on the health care debate last night. The proponent of the Public Option in the house responded to the allegations that the government would choose when the elderly would die. He called the argument "complete bogus" and people need to read the bill.
~~~~~~~~~

The same bill that most of congress did not read b/c it was too long?
lol!

Bronco, I understand you want some type of govt help with healthcare, but your a smart man, and you seriously don't want this thing pushed thru like this do you?

If they are going to do this, it should take months if not a year to create the correct plan...not going into this thing blind and watching the train wreck the follows.

"Mom said that when I wear this badge you're supposed to treat me like a man of the law"
Officer Goofy Gilmore...aka TrooperHook

Dingbat being Dingbat!!!!
Hypocrit 101--just like the increase in the minimum wage, everyone forced to do it, besides her part of the country.
How anyone on earth can support her is beyond me.

Then again, she is from Sanfransico, a city that has been supoorting nut job hippies since the late 50's.
Smoke another Nancy...you nut bag!


~~~~~~~~
"Pelosi, of course, has accepted campaign contributions from said villains this year and in the past, as have most of her Democratic colleagues. Pelosi's campaign committee, for example, took $2,500 from AFLAC's political action committee on April 13. But she's not giving the money back just because she thinks the sources are immoral and villainous."

"Mom said that when I wear this badge you're supposed to treat me like a man of the law"
Officer Goofy Gilmore...aka TrooperHook

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/notepad/2009/07/speaker-will-keep-villains-mon.html


Forgot the link, would want to be accused of lying b/c rainman can't read anything another olberman lover letters.

"Mom said that when I wear this badge you're supposed to treat me like a man of the law"
Officer Goofy Gilmore...aka TrooperHook

"If they are going to do this, it should take months if not a year to create the correct plan...not going into this thing blind and watching the train wreck the follows."

I would imagine it would take a few years to get it right. In the meantime, you can keep your private health insurance Murf. I will probably keep mine as well.

For the record, I dont care if she took money from the insurance industry. All the candidates take money from them. If they care about her calling them villains, they can choose not to donate to her next year. Pretty simple, really...

For the record, the Republican "plan" is a joke. It does nothing to change "pre-existing conditions", when insurance carriers can drop you for being sick, doesnt change the premiums and it wants to take med mal cases away from the American Jury System and let them be decided by someone who has experience in the health care system to be the trier of fact or judge. LOL - what a joke!

What is more American than the jury system?

"Falc, just because I respond, please dont take it to mean that I give a sh!t about you. I respond because you are the type of person that needs to be told what a whack job you are or else you will go on thinking your behavior is normal and accepted. "

Any MBS posters out there consider themsleves "birthers". If you are, you are probably Republican and Southern.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/31/760087/-Birthers-are-mostly-Republican-and-Southern

"Falc, just because I respond, please dont take it to mean that I give a sh!t about you. I respond because you are the type of person that needs to be told what a whack job you are or else you will go on thinking your behavior is normal and accepted. "

I hope after the Government gets the Health Insurance biz under their umbrella they take over the malpractice insurance biz as well. Maybe bronco can sue the Government and bring them down a notch or two.