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NFL Defensive Rankings

October 24 2011 at 4:34 AM
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Storm  (Login stormincincy)
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1 Bengals

2. Steelers

3. Ravens

4. Browns







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(Login psychostats)
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Re: NFL Defensive Rankings

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October 24 2011, 7:44 PM 

All hail the AFC North!

Early in the third quarter of the Baltimore-Jacksonville Monday night game, the Jaguars have less than 150 yards of offense. The Ravens are likely to take the lead in defensive rankings.

And the Ravens have waaay less than 100! Less than 50, actually, if I'm reading the SI box score right. The Jaguars may jump into the top four.


 
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Storm
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Re: NFL Defensive Rankings

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October 24 2011, 8:18 PM 

Bet anyone anywhere and anything that no AFCN team makes it to the Super Bowl

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(Login psychostats)
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Re: NFL Defensive Rankings

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October 24 2011, 9:59 PM 

Aw... didn't you hear, Storm? Defense wins championships.

Ravens gave up 205 net yards to the Jags. They move to the top. Now it's Ravens, Bungs, Steelers, Browns.

 
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Storm
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Re: NFL Defensive Rankings

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October 25 2011, 4:27 AM 

I always believed that defense wins championships but I just don't see the Bengals or Ravens getting there with their offenses and Pittsburgh was just there and I don't think they will make it back this year.

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Re: NFL Defensive Rankings

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October 25 2011, 5:57 AM 

Bet anyone anywhere and anything that no AFCN team makes it to the Super Bowl

I wouldn't be TOO sure about that. I still think (*shudder*) that Pittsburgh could do it. Let's put it this way: they've looked utterly underwhelming and they're still 5-2 and they've been there before. December isn't going to faze them.

One team that will be curious to watch is the Jets. They've looked absolutely AWFUL for most of this year but they're still in the hunt and slowly starting to perform better on offense. They could pull another one of those "get it together late in the season" acts.

BMN

 
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Sam Wyche
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Re: NFL Defensive Rankings

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October 25 2011, 2:03 PM 

If Pittsburgh gets ahead of Baltimore and sneaks away with the bye and some form of home field, they will be tough to beat. I don't think that they've lost a home playoff game since Jacksonville upset them in Tomlin's first year there.

Baltimore IMO is not a Superbowl team...the offense is just not quite there.

Bengals and Browns will not even make the playoffs but both will continue to put up good defensive numbers all year long.


    
This message has been edited by wyche from IP address 68.110.177.183 on Oct 25, 2011 2:03 PM


 
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BringBackBoomer
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Defense Wins Championships?

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October 25 2011, 4:07 PM 

That's the stupidest most untrue cliche ever used in football. Good teams win championships. Some have great offenses. Some have great defenses. Some are great (or good) at both. But if anything there are more past superbowl winners with very good to great offenses than defenses. The Patriot's, Colt's, Ram's, 49er's, Cowboy's, Saint's, Packer's, Bronco's etc. championships were predicated much more on their stellar offenses than their defenses. So why does everyone keep saying this stupid line 'defense wins championships'? It's just stupid and not true.

 
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(Login psychostats)
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Re: Defense Wins Championships?

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October 25 2011, 7:17 PM 

Maybe you didn't catch the memo, BBB. To talk about football, you have to be a card-carrying member of IIII. That's the International Institute of Inane Idioms. Mark it down. You heard it here first. You'll read that "defense wins championships" again before the year is out.

Maybe it's a false impression, but it seems like a great defense can carry a lousy offense. Right on its back. All the way through to a Super Bowl title. But not vice-versa. The offensive top-heavy teams you mentioned all had respectable defenses. But there were some pretty awful offenses numbered among the champions, like the 2002 Buccaneers.

Here's a thought that might hold-up to scrutiny. Many champions had to get through a defensive struggle or two in the playoffs. But not as many shootouts. And that was probably more true in the 60's, 70's, and 80's than in later decades.

And once a phrase catches on, it might as well be etched in stone.


    
This message has been edited by psychostats from IP address 107.10.83.42 on Oct 25, 2011 7:20 PM


 
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Draw
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Re: Defense Wins Championships?

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October 25 2011, 7:37 PM 

Just like pitching is 90% of baseball.

Never mind the Braves epic staffs of 90s underachieving all decade. It took Cleveland being their opponent to grind out 1 championship. The "Dream Team" Phillies had three Cy Young contenders, and lost to team that was left for dead twp weeks before the season ended.

The Yankees laugh their asses off every time they hear pitching is 90% of the game. Not that Yankees don't try to assemble a great staff, they just never do.

There are 10 types of people in this world, those who undertsand binary, and those who do not.

 
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Tobb
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tix

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October 25 2011, 7:58 PM 

Offense sells tickets.

Mikey is cleverer than you think.

 
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BringBackBoomer
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This ain't baseball

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October 25 2011, 11:41 PM 

C'mon don't compare the 'defense wins championships' debate to 'pitching is 90% of what wins in baseball'....apples and oranges really. First of all, I agree 100% with the later. Pitching IS what wins in baseball. The simple facts bear this out. It's what always wins. There are almost no examples of world series champs that didn't have stellar pitching the year they won regardless of their offensive capabilities. However, I'm looking through the Super Bowl champs and most were known much more for their bad *** offenses than their defenses. How about the '00 Rams? Sure, the '01 Ravens and the '03 Buccaneers are examples of awesome defenses that carried below average offenses to titles, but defense does not always win the super bowl championship...not by a long shot.

 
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uscthree
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apples and oranges exactly

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October 26 2011, 11:23 AM 

The Big Red Machine was not built on pitching.

Yankees have a guy named Mariano Rivera. Last I checked he has most all time saves. Ever heard of a guy named CC?

2002-03 staffs included Andy Petite, Mike Mussina, David Wells, Roger Clemens
Orlando Hernandez.

This idea that the Yankees do not have good pitching is pure bunk.

I see many of you guys that have your cup floweth over with Kool Aid.

Talk to me after Ravens and Steelers games.

 
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(Login whit28)
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Defense

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October 26 2011, 12:55 PM 

You can't win with an incompetent defense. Defense wins championships, its the reason why the Colts only won once. The Packers are led by Aaron Rogers but have Clay matthews and Charles Woodson.

You can't out score your opponent every game and it gets tougher the farther along you get in the playoffs.

It holds true in the NBA too. The Phoenix Suns have had some explosive offensive teams in the 2000's but they can't stop anyone come playoff time.

"I will torture him, I will crucify him,...REAL BAd!" - Clubber Lang

 
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Synonymous Bengal
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Re: Defense

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October 26 2011, 5:16 PM 

A quick scan of WAR values of the Cincinnati Reds have the total value of the offenses at +24 wins, and the pitching at around +10 wins. In other words you could replace the entire offense with backups and you lose 24 wins. Do the same to the pitching and you would lose 10.

Pitching is 50% at best, and while there are examples of great pitching staffs winning the series (Marlins, DBacks), it is usually a superior offense.

As for the Yankees pitching, the had some decent staffs, but even their best could not touch the Braves or Phillies. For what they spent, they never really got the value. Moose, Wells, Petitte,Clemens were good, but if memory serves their team ERA was not the top in the AL during those years. I may be wrong though.

There are 10 types of people in this world, those who undertsand binary, and those who do not.

 
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murf
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Re: Defense

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October 27 2011, 2:41 PM 

Best pitching staff in baseball is sitting at home watching the world series.

Rangers do not have a great pitching staff
Cards do not have a great pitching staff.

If you don't score runs, you don't win.
You need solid pitching, but you don't have to have a great rotation, but you do need bats in the line up.

I will take offense over pitching any day of the week and I will take offense over defense in football.
The object of the game is to SCORE MORE POINTS than the other team.
If you can't score, you don't win.

Baltimore just got embarrassed by Jax with a rookie qb...why?
The team is built around defense, and when pushed, Flacco and company are not that good.


http://murf-seriously.blogspot.com/

 
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Re: Defense

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October 27 2011, 6:39 PM 

You can pick any year you want to espouse the formula you like.

Arizona Diamondbacks of 2001 couldn't hit for $#!+ but they had Schilling and Johnson. BOOM! World Series title.

I've always said in baseball that the biggest weapon you can have in the regular season is a solid rotation with a little bit of hitting (hence the Braves' division title streak) but the biggest weapon in the postseason is a good bullpen (hence why the Braves seldom converted those division titles into World Series wins).

BMN

 
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Draw
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Re: Defense

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October 27 2011, 6:53 PM 

Wow, one whole year. That sure proves the point.

WAR is higher for every major league offense than their pitching staff. And keep in mind, the half of the game of baseball that is keeping the other side from scoring runs is not just pitching. It is also defense. Factoring that in, pitching takes even a bigger hit compared to hitting.

The Yankess from 2000-present never had better than a top 6 staff, frequently in the bottom half. So despite some good individual players, their staffs were not great. Rarely even good.

Every major league team spends more on hitting than pitching. If it truly were half the game shouldn't, it be 50/50? Or do you know more than 32 ML GMs?

Also, in 2001, Arizona had the 7th best offense in all of MLB. That is a far cry from not being able to hit a lick. They also were BETTER at offense than the Yankees that year.

There are 10 types of people in this world, those who undertsand binary, and those who do not.


    
This message has been edited by Drawon3rdand30 from IP address 74.83.2.229 on Oct 27, 2011 6:58 PM
This message has been edited by Drawon3rdand30 from IP address 74.83.2.229 on Oct 27, 2011 6:56 PM
This message has been edited by Drawon3rdand30 from IP address 74.83.2.229 on Oct 27, 2011 6:54 PM


 
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(Login BringBackBoomer)
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1990 Reds Anyone?

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October 28 2011, 4:05 PM 

The Cincinnati Reds swept one of the greatest offenses of the last forty years, holding them to a total of 8 runs in 4 games to win the World Series. You can thank Jose Rijo, Tom Browning, Randy Meyers and Rob Dibble to name a few. On the flip side, Oakland did themselves have a phenomenal staff as well with Welch, Stewart, Eckersley and company. Hell, they won two world series leading into this one. Though having an all pro lineup up and down the batting order sure didn't hurt them. Still, without the pitching staffs, neither of these teams is a world series champion in all likelihood.

 
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uscthree
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Correction:

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October 28 2011, 4:56 PM 

Oakland lost in 1988 to Dodgers, Kirk Gibson's blast was the highlight. Oakland beat Giants in 1989, earthquake year.

 
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Draw
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Re: Correction:

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November 19 2011, 6:59 PM 

As for the 90' Reds...Sure good pitching will occasionally be the reason a team wins the WS. No doubt about that. The point I was arguing is that it is no where 90% of the game. In fact, I think it may be less than 50%, since fielding accounts for at least part of the defensive side of the game.

I do think bullpens are a little underrated come playoff time, and starting pitching is a little overrated. At least your top 8 offensive players will play most of every game. However your 4 and 5 starter may not see any action in the entire playoffs.

As a side note, NL Cy Young votes are out, and the Giants had 4 pitchers in the top 12. They did not make the playoffs.

There are 10 types of people in this world, those who undertsand binary, and those who do not.

 
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