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Future Tailback

January 14 2012 at 7:45 AM
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murf  (Login murf129)
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With visions of Alabamas Trent Richardson dancing in everyones head, no one knows if he will be there by the time the Bengals are on the clock at 17. Lamar Miller of Miami (Fla.) is another possibility.

It will be a deep free agent class with all eyes set on Oaklands Michael Bush. The Louisville native has good quickness and is effective between the tackles but odds are the Raiders will place the franchise tag on him.

That leaves Seattles Marshawn Lynch and Justin Forsett, Green Bays Ryan Grant, Atlantas Jason Snelling, San Diegos Mike Tolbert and Clevelands Peyton Hillis among the more prized free agents.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ok, let me be the first to say this..
Richardson is not the answer.
I know, everyone wants to crown him the next great tailback, but when he faced a good defense, he was not that dynamic.
Strong runner, but it is hard to run the ball in the NFL and if you put him in stripes under Marvin, he will be nothing but a Rudi clone...azz sniffing for 1 or 2 yards per carry.

The Free agent list is garbage.
I don't want anyone on that list.

You have Scott as good option right now.
Nobody knows if he can or can't carry the load as an every down back, but that comes back at Marvin and his staff to come up with a game plan to keep him from pounding the ball 25 times between tackles.
Other teams have dynamic backs that are about the same size as Scott, but they use them as SPEED backs and create MATCH UPS to give them an opportunity to be game breakers.

To draft a tailback in the first round in this day and age, is a waste of a pick.
Reggie Bush was the most dynamic back in recent memory...very average in the NFL.
You have more backs that produce in the NFL who were drafted later.

The Bengals need to search for 2 big time play makers in the first round.

http://murf-seriously.blogspot.com/

 
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Dacia
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Yep

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January 14 2012, 8:48 AM 

Agree100%

 
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Hook
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Nope

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January 14 2012, 10:12 AM 

Has anyone ever watched Bernard Scott try to block? It's laughable. No surprise at that. This is still a Mike Brown roster.

There's a reason why this seventh round draft choice doesn't get 30 snaps a game. He's way too one dimensional.

That's especially true for the bungs. The talent level is and has been so low on the O Line for years. They desperately have to depend on the running back and/or tight end to sometimes pick up blitzes, just to keep the quarterback alive.

If it's true that the disappearing ground attack was largely attributable to diminished Cedric Benson skills, then you can add a bruising running back to the critical list of bungle needs. Last year we saw the bungs get humiliated all season long by backing off the run. This year we saw them exposed and humiliated in December when the running game fizzled out.

So the list includes running back, at least two NFL o-linemen, at least one NFL cornerback, at least one legit safety. And it certainly looks like the best can be said of the linebackers is that they sometimes make an argument for NFL mediocrity. They certainly aren't competing for Pro Bowl recognition.

And let's face it. The number two WR receiver on this year's team couldn't even beat out either one of the aged cancers from last year's team.

There's some Sheepish comments floating around the city that the Bungs are a player or two away. That just gives me more delighted hope that the next season will be just as funny as the last 20 or so.

 
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murf
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Re: Nope

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January 14 2012, 11:33 AM 

The last thing Marvin needs is a young power back.

My lord, he hates scoring now, can you imagine if he got his hands on a young power back?


http://murf-seriously.blogspot.com/

 
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WCB
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Re: Nope

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January 14 2012, 3:15 PM 

Dollars to donuts "thehole" takes Isiah Pead by the third or fourth round even though he would still be there in the seventh round, or maybe undrafted.




*

Stupid Fduckin' Sheep

 
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bronco
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Re: Nope

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January 14 2012, 4:47 PM 

It would be nice to have a running back who can take it the house from 80 yards out.



"Insert witty quotation here"

 
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murf
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Re: Nope

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January 15 2012, 8:15 AM 

I like Pead..a type of back that we need.


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bengalbear
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Re: *

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January 15 2012, 3:30 PM 

I still think we need a strong power back - a good north-south runner that can get inside for the tough yards and can take the pounding. This would complement Scott who reminds me of Stanley Wilson as one who can get outside around the edges. Although I like Pead I think he is a back that runs better outside and would not take the pounding in the NFL going inside.

 
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psychostats
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Re: *

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January 15 2012, 5:18 PM 

bengalbear, to me it sounds like you're talking about a... bell-cow!

Benson is still a pretty good power back, if you use him properly. Not sure you're going to get better mileage from a new guy.

 
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bengalbear
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Re: *

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January 15 2012, 6:43 PM 

I'd be looking for someone bigger than Benson - about 6'2 or so and weighing 235 or so who accellerates int the hole - a good first step. I just don't think Benson is the guy for that - he may be past his prime - maybe injuries catching up with him. As Sam Wyche said " A football player can take only so many hits" and a high impact position like that - I'd want someone with durability. I just like a power game with a good tight end (who can also catch the ball) and strong runner - but that's me. Obviously even with that you still need to be able to throw the ball for if in the 2nd half and you are behind a lot the running game will be negated.

 
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OldSchoolerFan
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Yo Murf

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January 16 2012, 2:48 AM 

Oregon RB may still be there when the Bungles arrive on the Draft Board. Wanna take a shot at him?


I would.






"So he got fired? Big deal. It's happened to the best of us. So he got kicked out of his house by his 400 lb'ed wife?!?!? That's probably better for him anyways."-OldSchooler on ChrisMBHater's absence

 
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murf
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Re: Yo Murf

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January 16 2012, 8:34 AM 

I would not hate that either...

Just look at the Ravens/Texans game yesterday.
2 teams that like to run a power run offense...
2 teams that could not score enough points if playing against a good offensive team.
2 of the best backs in the league..got their yards, got their touches, clock moved along, punter got some snaps...

Yet the Texans mistakes gave the Ravens a win, but they still had a chance at the very end.

We need a speed back and a coach that understands that Bettis was a freak...and the game has changed

http://murf-seriously.blogspot.com/

 
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ItmightbeJB
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Re: Yo Murf

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January 16 2012, 12:23 PM 


You could do a lot worse than Isaiah Pead. I've seen him play and he's got all the tools an NFL Running Back needs. I don't have a good feel for where he'll go in the draft but he's a gamer and he might surprise a lot of people at the combine.

 
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murf
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Re: Yo Murf

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January 17 2012, 7:16 AM 

Here is my biggest concern with a high pick for a tailback.
If you look around most teams have a combo at tailback, and some of the best backs in the league were not top rated backs.
Foster was an undrafted free agent and became the rushing leader last year..no playoffs.

If you watched the Bengals this year, they were more productive when forced to pass the ball and attack the defense.
Benson is not that great, he is solid, but solid is not good enough.
The line is solid, but not great..

So you have to look at real life here.
You are not going to have a big time back come in and with 2 hall of fame guards for next year.
your strength on offense is 14 spreading the defense out and using speed.

They need a shifting back that can take stretch plays to the second level on cut backs.
They don't need a power back.
They have a huge back in Finley that can be your short yardage plow guy.

You have Scott who can be more of a slasher when given a real opportunity.

as for his lack of blocking skills...
Why on earth would you put him in to block?
if he is on the filed it should be to carry or catch the ball..
that is basic coaching...and we know how great Marvin is finding the correct matchups.
Coaching comes down to building your scheme around your talent..



http://murf-seriously.blogspot.com/

 
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Hook
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Inane Record Intact

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January 17 2012, 1:39 PM 

"If you watched the Bengals this year, they were more productive when forced to pass the ball and attack the defense."~Murf.

Someday, by random chance if nothing else, you might get something right. The Bungs were forced to pass in their last game. Remember? Well, maybe have someone read the stats to you.

They only rushed for 76 yards. Dalton threw three interceptions. And I liked this comment from ESPN's game recap:


"The Texans' defense rushed four or fewer pass rushers on 37 of Andy Dalton's 47 dropbacks on Saturday, and Dalton struggled throwing into coverage. Houston had three interceptions and sacked Dalton a season-high three times. Houston had sent extra rushers after Dalton on 18 of 30 dropbacks in their regular season meeting, and Dalton completed 11 of 17 passes for 141 yards and his only touchdown. - Dalton was 9 of 10 against such pressure prior to his pick-six to J.J. Watt at the end of the second quarter. Including the pick, Dalton went 12 of his next 23, with three interceptions. The 21.3 blitz rate Saturday was the Texans' lowest of the season." [+]

The Bungs went downhill in 2010 when they largely abandoned the run to let Carson pass to his over-the-hill cancers. This year, they may well have had to abandon the run in the final games due to injuries.

But to claim that they were more productive when "they had to pass the ball?"
That's Kool-Aid-drinking, Sheepish denial in amazing proportions.

They desperately need more help on the O-Line. If Benson isn't back in form from a couple years ago, they desperately need help at running back. And of course they desperately need help at several defensive positions.

But if only they had a better scheme.

Every year gets funnier and funnier. Life is good.

 
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murf
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Re: Inane Record Intact

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January 18 2012, 4:47 AM 

I am sitting in the hospital for the next few hours, so I might as well just go ahead and waste the time talking to you about the difference in SCHEME.

If you have a nice big and physical O-line that can get a solid push on every snap and you have wideouts and TE's that can block the 2nd level guys and a tailback that can be explosive thru the hole and still maintain good vision from side to side to see the cut back lane then the speed to break some runs over 20 yards in every game...then you have a power run game.

According to you,the Bengals don't have enough talent to be a power run team at the highschool level, so why on earth would you keep forcing the issue?
That is exactly what Marvin does and if you have not noticed, he has been a head coach for 9 years and has done exactly nothing!

The game has changed, I don't know why you are having trouble understanding that.
Who cares if Dalton got picked 3 times in a game..the same player on the same team, went about 6 games with only have 1 or 2 picks.
I believe every great qb has had a few games in their careers where they had some bad games.

So if you are Marvin, and you are the wizard of all football, you look at your non talented roster (according to you), and you must say to yourself..
We have a good young qb
We have a great outside weapon
We have a solid TE
We have a solid slot guy
We have an average line
We have an average tailback
We have an average defense that is one play away from losing every game b/c we are having trouble scoring by forcing the run.
So what can we do to give ourselves a better chance of winning against a great defense since we face 2 of the best 4 times a year.

We can look at film of teams that beat those teams and see what they do best against them.
or
We can continue to ask players to do something that they are not skilled enough to do and be average and every week we can sit at a table with microphones and talk about pad level.

Spread the field..use your weapons.
When the linebackers and safety have to play out of the box, then you go to the run game with stretch plays and counters.

Pretty simple concept.
You coach the talent you have and you put that talent in the best position to win football games by using a modern day scheme.

http://murf-seriously.blogspot.com/

 
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Hook
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Re: Inane Record Intact

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January 18 2012, 1:49 PM 

When did I say the Bungs didn't have the personnel to be a power run team? Until Benson got dinged up, I simply pointed out that their prospects for winning were demonstratably better when they did play a more run-oriented offense.

You were the one that said they achieved better when they had to pass. You were incredibly naive, or incredibly ignorant or incredibly a mixture of the two.

They had to pass against Houston when the power run game failed. They got clobbered....note, they just didn't get edged, but they got clobbered.

When they can run, they've sometimes been competitive. When they couldn't run, they proved they can never be competitive, not with this bunch.

By the way, I don't buy your argument about the WR weapons. Other than Green, they had no name jokers that couldn't beat out the likes of TO and OchoPsycho last year.

 
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Synonymous Bengal
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Re: Inane Record Intact

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January 18 2012, 6:00 PM 

Mel Kiper (who is always wrong) says the Bungs draft the CB out of Nebraska (Alfonso Dinnard) and the running back from the Hurricanes (Lamar Smith) in the first round.



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bengalbear
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Re: *

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January 18 2012, 9:10 PM 

Recall that Lewis - as poor on offense as he is - said he wants to run the ball and have a strong defense. As far as passing - we need a much better O-line for that - it is harder to pass block and pick up the blitzes and defenssive linemen than to run the ball. However our O-line has been poor esp against the better teams even when running the ball. Without a good O-line nothing will work esp. the pass.

 
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Hook
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Re: *

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January 19 2012, 2:24 AM 

I know that time moves way too fast and 2005 is well back in history by now. But Marvin Lewis is the same person with the same DNA now as he was in 2005.

The Bungs passed often and passed with productivity that year. Same coach, but much different players. The O-Line completely decayed away (with the exception of Bobbie Williams, their worst lineman then and probably their best lineman the last few years). The WRs got older and/or crazier and or stopped breathing.

The personnel changed. The coach adapted.....at least he should have.

And I don't see how anyone can get away from simple observations. The Bungs amazingly overachieved in 2009 with an offense that was more run oriented. That's the irony to me. I can't explain, and completely buy the Marvin criticism, that he went relatively pass crazy in 2010. The results were disasterous for the bungs(but for me hilarious).

The whole football world seemed shocked by Dalton's productivity as a rookie, particularly since he was surrounded by WRs that were either garbage that couldn't beat out Chad or TO or a rookie....a well regarded rookie but still a rookie.

But after watching yet another hilarious year play out, I'm not so sure it's spot on to give Dalton as much credit for 9 wins as was granted. When the running game got dinged, his productivity got gutted.

We've seen for years now that the Bungs desperately have to depend on running backs and tight ends to block on pass plays, just to keep Carson alive. But I suspect that a potent running attack had some of those linebackers and safeties playing just a touch more in the stop-run mode. With no running game against the Texans, Dalton's three sacks and three interceptions were exactly what you should expect from a rookie QB over his head.

With Benson dinged, the passing attack decayed. That's why, if Benson can't come back in former form for whatever reason, the Bungs desperately need a replacement powerback.

But of course they desperately need major upgrades at some O-Line, safety, WR, linebacker positions as well.

And that's why I think the impossible may just happen again. I keep thinking, every season, that it will be impossible to laugh any harder the next season. But the Sheep keep proving me wrong. That "one player away" rhetoric that works its way into the WLW crowd has the Sheep salivating and me delighted.

May the Agony of the Sheep endure forever.

 
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