After the final cutdown of 2012, and before any waiver wire pickups, we have eight draftees and two college free agents.

    Offense: TE Orson Charles, WR Mohammed Sanu, WR Marvin Jones, G Kevin Zeitler, G/C Trevor Robinson*

    Defense: E Devon Still, E Brandon Thompson, LB Vontaze Burfict*, CB Dre Kirkpatrick, S George Iloka


And don't forget the seven other first or second-year players:

    QB Andy Dalton, WR AJ Green, WR Andrew Hawkins, WR Ryan Whalen, WR Armon Binns, G Clint Boling, LB Vincent Rey


That's 17 players with one year of experience or less. It may bode well for the future, but not for this year. Makes me think again of Forrest Gregg's contention that you can't keeping churning the youngest part of your roster, or you'll never get enough experience on your team.

Another reason to expect another non-winning season.


_{* college FA}

how many were there last season?

I've noticed a lot of excitement about "the youth movement" for the bungs. Even columnist Paul Daugherty seems to have come around, declaring the bungs more talented than the Stealers or Ravens in a recent column.
I doubt this will surprise any of you, but I just don't buy it. It's not much fun being so cynical all the time, but it's not much fun having your hopes crushed either. Seems just as likely to me (more likely) that "the youth movement" was just a good excuse for spending as little as possible during these years without a salary floor.
Salary floor kicks in next season tho I believe, maybe my interest and false hope can be rekindled a bit then.

Anyone see any interesting releases? I saw Quan Cosby out there, Mardy Gilyard cut by Eagles, that white safety Tom something the bungs had a few seasons back that everyone was high on but got hurt. Didn't notice an inordinate amount of bungs like in some years past.
Also saw the Pata released vet center Dan Koppen. Any thought on if we should've waited to go after this "war horse" rather than Faine? Too late now of course, doubt the brownHole will second guess himself as to how he spent $$$.

"We do do, and we do it at a very, very high level," Lewis said.

That's interesting about Dan Koppen. Patriot guys are supposed to be smart, and he could potentially learn Gruden's system quickly. If he's still available after Ngata flattens Faine into micro-thin fiber, the Bungs should pick him up.

Or maybe pick him up right now. If Gruden can rotate bell-cows, why not worn-out-old-war-horse-grizzled-vets at center?

How many last season? Good question.


Roster after final cutdown 2011 --

 7 Rookies

    Offense: QB Andy Dalton, RB Cedric Peerman, WR AJ Green, WR Ryan Whalen, TE Colin Cochart, G Clint Boling

    Defense: S Robert Sands

 7 other first or second-year players

    G Otis Hudson, C Reggie Stephens, T Geno Atkins, DE Carlos Dunlap, LB Vincent Rey, S Taylor Mays, S Jeromy Miles


Fourteen total, which comes down to three fewer rookies on the squad in 2011 than a there are now. So I fall back on Forrest Gregg's old wisdom that he used to reach to the Super Bowl -- accumulate more players with 3-4 years of experience.

And of course there's that little matter of the schedule being more difficult this season.

_{Links
2011:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/833565-nfl-cutdown-day-2011-which-cincinnati-bengals-didnt-make-the-final-roster
http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/One-last-shot/916a5690-9a1d-4028-8e0b-a8caedd32e34
2012: http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Burfict-joins-seven-WRs-on-roster/9670c570-9925-4e31-bd4a-084b1502e23c}

nice research...the Bengals have been rebuilding for 21 years, nothing really different to see here

I like the roster except for Muckelroy not being there.
He has shown some flashes of being a solid backer.

http://murf-seriously.blogspot.com/

Vontaze Burfict beat him out.

Kid is a playmaker. Marvin basically said it came down to those two.

"Insert witty quotation here"

I like Vontez..but Skuta over Muckelroy?
Whalen over Muckelroy?


http://murf-seriously.blogspot.com/

"I like Vontez..but Skuta over Muckelroy?
Whalen over Muckelroy?"


Marvin and Mike almost always make the right personell choices


------------------------------------------
In Memory of Dunn4QB

If the Bungs had cut Whalen, he'd be a Colt right now. Muckelroy is still available and may end up back on the team at some point.

So over 32% of the Bungs' 53-man roster have one year or less NFL experience. I'm the last one to be surprised at such a major player overhaul. It's pragmatic desperation in response to the talent gap.

On the other hand, I really don't have a firm idea of what's typical. Anyone have any stats for the average NFL team in this regard?

Just staying in the Division:

Steelers have 18 (10 rookies) 34.0%
Browns have 31 (16 rookies) 58.5%
Ravens have 28 (13 rookies) 52.8%

So it seems relatively typical. I don't think that the Bengals youth is something that you can spin either way. The sheep will fall in line, while the skeptics will be difficult to sway as well.

What I find to be interesting, though, is that the national outlook (ESPN for example) and from the sheep at home is that the Bengals are the AFC North team of the future because the Steelers and Ravens are so old. From these stats, it is comparable. Quality of youth is debatable (especially if you like Andy Dalton), but the reality is that the Browns and Ravens have over half of their rosters as first or second year players. The Steelers and Bungs make-up there is pretty comparable. Since the Steelers keep from within their breakdown across the board is probably very balanced. The Browns roster turnover is incredible (how few guys left that played for Mangini let alone Romeo).

Stop making sense Wyche, you will ruin their day if they can't walk around and complain.

People like Trooper believe you need 21 Hall of Famers at every starting position and you should run the ball 60 times a game.
He still dreams of his glory days in 4th grade back in 60's when the Packer Sweep was the most dominate play in the books.
However he did get a tad bit of excitement when the Steelers started running counter traps to perfection.


The Bengals have a roster set up to contend.
It comes down to Marvin and his staff and luck to stay healthy with the key players.
I was not impressed by the line play in the preseason, but it was just the preseason and they lost 2 starters.
I am hoping if they are slow to click together that Marvin allows Gruden to scrap Marvin Ball and put Dalton into a position to move the ball quickly out of shot gun more than lining up to force the run more often than not.
You know, like a modern day scheme.



http://murf-seriously.blogspot.com/

Thanks, Sam. That surprises me. I'd love to find some data to see what the average number of rookies teams carry on opening day are, over the past five years or so. I guess maybe 10 isn't so many.

The young players on the team from last year (after final roster cuts but before waiver pick-ups) who are now gone:

Cochart, Stephens, Hudson (but he'll be back), S Robert Sands (injured reserve).

That makes 10 out of 14 still here with two slated to return. It sure feels like they got younger, but Hobson says the average years of NFL experience went up (from 3.75 to 4.08). Makes you wonder how much that worn-out old war-horse of grizzled veteran, Jeff Fain, skewed the numbers.

I can compliment Wyche as well...especially his remark that "The Sheep" will fall in line. No surprise Murf came running.

That "Marvin Ball" is as phony as your Tea Bagger nonsense, Murf. When Marvin had players to protect the QB and a full line of receivers to catch the ball, he tossed it around about as much as anyone.

The line decayed and the WR corps dissolved to laughingstock standards. And Marvin adapted, and somehow the Bungs still managed to have some winning seasons.

Of course, even in those winning seasons, the talent gap would always, and predictably, get exposed late in the season and in the playoffs.

But that's what makes Bungle watching so much fun...Wyche's visual of the Sheep running. It's hysterical to listen to the Sheep whine on WLW and it's just as hysterical to read the whining on these pages.

May the Agony of the Sheep endure forever.

I suppose I can be labeled a sheep or sheep-esque as I am still loyal to the team (not the owner).

I think this squad is a far cry from the 2-14 teams of 10-20 years ago. They actually have talent, especially on defense.
i think this team goes as far as the run blocking and the development of the #2 and #3 receivers go.

Based on my analysis, which means nothing, I tend to think that Marvin Jones can play (start) right now. The kid makes plays. Period. You look for that in a wideout. I would love to see a huge jump in execution by Gresham this year. He is so much bigger than everyone else in the secondary, he should catch everything thrown to him. We will see.

On defense, we just need dunlap to get back and to stay freaking healthy. I love the LB depth right now and even the secondary is coming around.

Marv, let Adam Jones return punts. Pulease.

The Nuge and Huber the Boober, are probably two of the best in the conference at their position.

This team needs a little more confidence. A win against the Ravens on MNF could jump start that.
I know it sounds wishy washy, but I can see this team finishing at 5-11 and I can see them finishing 10-6.

If they beat the Ravens, they have a real shot at starting 6-0.

the schedule in the second half of the season is FLIPPING BRUTAL.

"Insert witty quotation here"