THis is the first vol fan that I've came in contact with that knows the truth about the vols. All other vol sheep tend to think this team is so great and then get mad as hell when your beloved vols lose. It's clear that UT thought they had this game won. On paper, LSU shouldn't have came close to UT. But when you wave roses around campus and begin making T-shirts about the vols in the rose bowl, Other teams take that as an insult and come prepared to bring the pain. Trust me I know this from the A$$ kicking CU gave my huskers. And also Justin admits that Tee Martin was a far better QB than Manning. How many championships did manning win? Did manning ever beat Florida? Did tee lose to memphis? Will true vols fans like justin stand up please????
I read in the paper that some vol fans won't go to the citruis(excuse the sp) bowl if UT is picked to go there. That's a damn shame. Sometimes you have to sink with your ship and still cheer for your team no matter who they are playing. I was mad that Nebraska had to play northwestern in that sorry bowl last year, but I was cheering my boys on when they beat the brakes off of northwestern. I was upset when the buffs beat NU, but instead of sending bad e-mails, I sent them messages telling them to keep their heads up.
So justin....Keep your head up,brotha!! Good luck to UT against michigan.
to determine whether one QB is better than another based on whether the team wins a championship? Do I need to make a list comparing QB's with a ring to those who don't have one?
Please don't give me this crap. There's one stat that matters in football and its Wins and Losses. It's a team sport and most of the stats are ridiculous. That's why individual awards like the Doak Walker, Heisman, don't mean anything to me.
Grossman threw for more TDs and yards this year than Wuerffel in 96, who was the better qb?
Dan Marino threw for a million yards, would you take him over Joe Montana?
Trent Dilfer
Doug Williams
Kordell Stewart (best record so far this year)
Steve McNair (AFC Champ)
While we're at it, I guess Archie Manning absolutey SUCKED. Having folks from down that way, I knew you and JC would appreciate that. I don't have my official NFL football annual handy to run down a few other "champion QB's", so I'll stop with these...for now.
I loved Tee as a person and a player, but you know as well as I, we won in spite of him on more than one occassion. Not to mention, you're one of the guys who just loves to rip Fulmer as having been "Lucky" to have won a championship. Without that luck, would Tee still be considered great? Can't have it both ways brother. If Stoerner doesn't fumble is he still great? If Weinke isn't hurt, is he still great? If the ref doesn't call interference in Syracuse, is he still great?
Give me a damn break. This argument is so ridiculous it's giving me a headache. I thought you were smarter than that.
"Trent Dilfer
Doug Williams
Kordell Stewart (best record so far this year)
Steve McNair (AFC Champ)
While we're at it, I guess Archie Manning absolutey SUCKED. Having folks from down that way, I knew you and JC would appreciate that. I don't have my official NFL
annual handy to run down a few other "champion QB's", so I'll stop with these...for now.
I loved Tee as a person and a player, but you know as well as I, we won in spite of him on more than one occassion. Not to mention, you're one of the guys who just loves to rip Fulmer as having been "Lucky" to have won a championship. Without that luck, would Tee still be considered great? Can't have it both ways brother. If Stoerner doesn't fumble is he still great? If Weinke isn't hurt, is he still great? If the ref doesn't call interference in Syracuse, is he still great?
Give me a damn break. This argument is so ridiculous it's giving me a headache. I thought you were smarter than that."
Spin it all you want Carter. The fact is Tee Martin was 22-3 as a starter and has a national title. Tee Martin, unlike those phonies you mentioned in Steve McNair and Kordell Stewart, won games for his team with his arm (Miss. st in SECCG, Georgia) and his legs (Syracuse, Bama 99). Tee Martin DID NOT throw 4 Ints against florida in 96. Tee Martin didn't throw the most ill-advised pass in UT history to Tony George in the Swamp in 97.
I'm talking about coming up big in big games. Do I blame Clausen for losing to LSU...No. He made plays and did NOT get his team beaten. Peyton Manning threw 6, count 'em again SIX Ints vs. Florida his last two years.
Yes there was luck going Tee's way, but he made the breaks also when it counted. Do you remember the deep balls he threw in the Miss St. game and the FSU game?He made big plays against a very good FSU defense in the title game.
Everybody in this town EATS, SLEEPS, LIVES AND BREATHES Peyton Manning still...I've had outsiders visit and they notice that. I'm not saying Peyton was an average QB, he was a very good QB.
I want you to name me one game Peyton won when the opposing team had more talent? And don't say Ohio State, they tanked it after they choked to Michigan.
and that's my point. The same way CC is not being blamed for a loss Sat, I do not place total blame or give total credit for Losing/Winning a game, any game, on one player. The truth is, Peyton was asked, and did in most instances, to do more than Tee was, especially the first 5-6 games of Tee's career. And when you're expected to carry the load like PM was, mistakes are going to happen, plays are going to be made against you. Shit happens. For example, the year Peyton was lighting up Florida in the first half in the swamp (I guess he was good for 30 minutes anyway), we come out after half, take the ball and head straight down the field with an opportunity to put the nail in the coffin. Third and one inside Florida territory and we jump the RB over the top, he's easily past the first down line, and wham, the ball pops out and they return it 65 yards for a TD, then all hell breaks loose. I've seen his pass batted down at the line, it bounce down and back up off a Gator players calf up in the air and returned for a TD. There are way too many things that happens in a football game that precludes me from blaming one player. Peyton's having a rough year with the Colts this year for sure, but with James and Harrison out, he's having to try and do it himself, and he can't. Nobody can.
Why is Tee still sitting behind Kordell these days anyway?
Peyton threw 4 Ints against Florida in 96. You are correct in that the coaches gave more free reign to Peyton than Tee and Peyton had more responsibility, BUT Tee martin didn't throw costly picks. He also won games with his legs (remember the scramble to get them in FG range in OT?). Do you remember him throwing for 270+ yards against FSU in the title game? Do you remember the 55-yard run against Syracuse?
Regarding the other statement, Tee beat Florida when florida was favored and he beat FSU when FSU was favored in the title game. Also, He beat UGA the game after Jamal was lost for the season and nobody gave TN a chance down there.
"Why is Tee still sitting behind Kordell these days anyway?"
Kordell Stewart is getting at least $4 million bucks a season...and before you say anything, NO he's not worth it. Tee will never play ahead of Kordell b/c the Steelers invested too much money in Kordell. Nobody wants to take on Kordell in a trade, so they are stuck with him.
VH,
Dan Marino was and will always be a big game choker. He was a crybaby who often yelled at his WRs when he threw bad passes. Give me Elway, Montana, Favre or Steve Young over Marino any day.
I'm talking about their performances IN COLLEGE. You're talking about the NFL.
That's like you saying to a Florida fan, after discussing their quarterbacks' success on the COLLEGIATE LEVEL:
"You start your team with Danny Wuerffel and I'll start mine with Shane Matthews. Shane is better in the NFL."
I don't believe Marvin Harrison is hurt this year, but losing Edge has definitely hurt Peyton's performance. Still, he's been making some terrible throws (and costing me fantasy points BTW) that show he's regressed somewhat in his decision making in the NFL.
"44, I believe it is Paython who is/was hurt along with James. Justin, ask how many Gators will trade Grossman for Clausen. Then please explain to them why they should."
What are you implying carter. I'm talking about college qbs from the same program. UT's offense and Florida's offense are completely different.
Do you think Nebraska fans think Eric Crouch is better than Tommie Frazier? Crouch won the Heisman and Frazier didn't.
A QB's worth/quality can ONLY be determined by wins and losses and rings. Grossman has 2 regular season L's by his name and the guy comes in 2nd in the voting! What a joke!
Losing Pathon has been a hit. I'll actually defend Manning's play in this season somewhat because he has been forced to press with the injuries and the pathetic defense that he's been given. Still, some of the throws he's made shouldn't be made considering his experience. Of course you also have to consider the fact that his coach is one of the great choke artists of all time, Jim Mora.
that Mora has exactly zero playoff wins?? I heard that the other day on the radio - maybe keep your mouth shut until you have the record to back it up.
Why are you taking this so personally? All I said is Peyton Manning didn't accomplish as much at UT compared to Tee Martin.
And guess what? Based on Tee Martin claiming a national title ring, two SECCG rings and a win over Florida, he accomplished more than Peyton. I'm still waiting for you to tell me which big game Peyton won?
You're going overboard. I said Tee accomplished more than Peyton Manning did in college. Never did I once say that Tee Martin is a better pro QB than Peyton. There's a difference between a good pro and a good college qb.
Peyton Manning is a better pro qb than Tee Martin, Tommie Frazier, Josh Heupel and Jay Barker.
