Road fund Tax late payers and people who mistakenly park in yellow box junctions because the traffic suddenly stops should :-

HAVE THE RIGHT TO APPEAL !!!

New plans dictate that you can not appeal?

What sort of government allows this to happen???

wheel.

Appeal against what? Sentence? Fine? or whether or not you are guilty?

The Anonanus Ignoranus "Labouring" under the misapprehension that he is performing a "public duty".

Tell us then:

Why not both?

Or is that a priviledge that only real criminals should be entitled to in your "liberal" world?

Unlike someone who was in hospital and unable to do anything, or forgot until their plane took off.

Or, as I have often experienced, the Post Office staff refusing to renew the VED because I didn't have valid insurance:

IE it ran out (ie was due for renewal) shortly after the tax disk was.

And what about my wife, who received a very threatening apparent invoice for a conditional, cut price, one time only offer, cheap at twice the price, but it will be loads more, but you will get a million points with that offer, tax demand, a couple of months after paying it before it was due!

I had to read it several times times to be fairly confident she wasn't guilty of something, and wasn't obliged to send loadsamoney to the government.

 

See also:

The Camera Never Lies - Or Does It?

And umpteen similar threads!

 

Oh, but you're not interested in the truth, are you!

See 6th post on:

Message To Hanbo &To & Re Leif The Spammer & His Playmates

 

NewLabours view motorist offences as black or white.

No, they aren't.

Dish out the law maybe but give motorists a fair hearing if they try to appeal, we are not just going to lie down and give Bliar loads of our hard earned cash going to work etc.

(Especially those who didn't vote for him).

It's called fairness Mr Bliar !!!

wheel.

There was a chap on the UK Speed Traps Guide forum a while back!

He was looking for advice. According to his post he was working abroad. He had a Ford Capri stored in his Dad's garage. He received a number of threatening letters from the DVLA/scamships saying that his Brown Mondeo had violated a number of traffic rules - speeding past PC Gatso, etc. Obviously, a cloned plate!

Under these rules, some moron can clone your plate and you pick up the tab with no right to appeal?

Not a lass who generally wishes ill on someone - but....

Mr Publicduty .... when this happens to you, I expect you will change your tune LOUDLY!

After all - none of us are perfect - are we?

Bogush makes valid points as well. As Nursie - know that people can be "incapacitated" and thus be unable to get to Post Office to renew tax disc!

I receive my tax renewal disc 7 days before it is due. One year - it did not arrive at all. Fortunately, I was able to use the log book to get the disc! But what if you have a break-in like my neighbour (who waited HOURS and HOURS for the cops to arrive!) The yobs who broke into his place trashed everything and ripped up all the papers in his desk, possibly nicking his Log Book - as that and all his "useful" stuff had vanished!

Does he get a draconian fine for being late? After all - he has to go through a lot of pallaver to get re-issues of all this stuff. The forms he's got to fill in are a nightmare!

As for Traffic Wardens in general...

Well, from my experience and reading the guys elsewhere, they are not exactly well blessed in the brain/common sense department, are they!

>"Appeal against what? Sentence? Fine? or whether or not you are guilty?

Or, Whether the car is,
on the road?
in the repair shop?
in the garage?
on the driveway?
recently (10 days ago) scrapped?
recently (10 days ago) sold on?
stolen/not recovered?
touring abroad?
insurance write off?
in police compound?
etc etc etc etc
etc etc etc etc
The list goes on, and on, and on,
Yes, appeal,
it's your 'Right' to 'Appeal'!

With any number of lawful explanations!


.

And what if the warden writes down your number incorrectly?

Or, rather, someone else's!

 

Some folk really are idiots!

OK - the YBJ etc are nuisances! But, apart from the obviously dangerous such as driving the wrong way down a one way street, it hardly warrants a £100 on the spot fine from a jumped-up, dead from the neck up traffic warden!

Warnings for first offences, then fines starting at, say £30 to a maximum of £100, would be fairer!

£100 fine for a minor misdemeanour?

Only £30 for gassing on a hands-held phone - and some issuing warnings until we "gt used to the idea?"

Had an unholy row with a workmate today over this!

The porter said that "£100 fine was justified for these offences as they do not read the Highway Code, and they hold up traffic by selfish parking on double yellows, enterering YBJs illegally"

When I acidly asked him to quote the paragraph, and asked a few questions on the Green Cross - he could not answer! What a SURPRISE!!!

Then I reminded him that I had in fact seen him gassing on a hands-held phone on his way into work. His response? "It was an emergencyyyyy and could not stop due to yellow linessss!!!!!"

My response? "I shall grass you up to the traffic warden and insist you receive £100 plus £30 plus points for:

a) holding up the traffic whilst prat-@arsing (QGD word! - am learning!) about on a mobile phone!

b) cutting in in fron of yours truly whilst prat-@arsing about on mobile phone!

c) driving in a way that would endanger my front wing whilst prat=@arsing about on a mobile phone!

d) driving at least 4mph above the speed limit whilst prat-@arsing about on the mobile phone!"

Shame it was a dangerous stretch of roadway too! Had it been a safe stretch and a changed limit the twazak would have been pinged anyway!!

About typical of the type of folk who think Good drivers such as ourselves should be harassed to this extent! Of course, I would not be got for these new £100 offences! (Read the code only recently and am looking into being trained as an IAM "stick to the rules Numpty as Bogey called them in one thread! - I'm just after the reduced insurance - mate!)

But it is the principle and the attitude of these "p***s artists that get my temper going!

Good post Lucy!

Entertaining little Snippet in Today's "Sun":

You really cannot make this up!

WE now need to take a ruler out with us at all times!

WHY?

Because the Traffic Wardens will fine you £100 if your wheels are 50 cm (19 ins) from the kerb!

That's a nice little earner, ain't it!

They're "'aving a LARF!"???

Across the land, in villages, hamlets, market towns, seaside resorts, people are parking 50 cm away from the kerb!

Have they done a deal with the tyre companies? Scuffed wheel trims, scuffed tyres - which will need replacing if cut by a high kerb?

Even the AA said it was absurd! The ADAC in Germany apparently laughed in total disbelief! "Only in England!! Sure you won the war against dictators??"

Lots of wimmin (OOOOOOOOOOOPS!-Dodgy post, and we'll get "nuked" for it! Sorry ladies! But lots of you in my office today 'fessed up to that one!) will be "had" by this!

What about the "disabled"? They may find it difficult to squeeze into that space, and be exactly within 9 or so inches from the kerb?

It will lead to new kind of road rage - as enraged motorists will take the ruler and shove it where the "Sun don't shine!"

Cheers

The Wacky Mob!

Course our wackier members are not saying that parking 19 inches away from the kerb is OK! Like all the other "draconian fine by Super Warden" offences, the "nuisance" factor to other road-users is high!

But, as Lucy has pointed out already, £100 spot fine for this kind of offence is OTT when a warning would be more appropriate and equitable in terms of justice!
Surely a warning, followed by fines for repeat offences starting at £30 up to a max of £100 would be a fairer system? (But then again - we are talking about Mr Big of the criminal world here: THE MOTORIST!
and in the case of parking ...MRS BIG and Ms BIG!!! (Sorry, Ladies! (our gals apart!) But you yourselves do admit it .....!)

After all, the fine for a much more dangerous and lethal driving practice ..... using a hands-held mobile is £30, (and a "yellow-card" was given to allow motorists to "get used to the idea" that they could no longer use the device in the car!" .Not made any difference at all from our observations!)


Cheers again from the SAFE Wacky and able to park a lorry on the proverbial "postage stamp" Team!

Interesting article in the "Mail on Sunday" (11 Jan04)

Entitled "BUS LANE BANDITS!"

Or how one council's income from drivers who stray into bus lanes will soar tenfold this year ..to £2.5m!

Written by Martin Delgade, the article claims that local authorities are poised to rake in millions this year from the "bus lane straddler" One Lambeth councillor admitted that is a "CASH COW"

Leaked documents to the "Mail" show how Lambeth expects to make £2.5m this year, and has even made contingency plans as to how to fill the gap once the motorist has got wise to the scam!

Astonishingly, this figure only relates to fines at the borough level. Offences on major routes will pay Ken Livingstone's Transport for London!

If Lambeth is repeated across the country, then many motorists will be shelling out even more dosh for the crime of allowing one wheel to go over the white
line, even for a couple of yards!


What do you do if you swerve into one to avoid some twazak of a pedestrian with a death wish? Risk a fine or risk a collision?

Buses are to be equipped with cameras as well to catch us all "at it!" Lambeth's Environment Director admitted to the "Mail" that he needs to take advice as to "how zealous he should be!"

The fines are to pay for better buses and underground services, and providing free rtrasnport for pensioners and the disabled (which critics say should come out of the social services budget.

The coundil has admitted that it makes "three times more than it expected from these fines, and THAT BUS LANES ARE DESIGNED TO MAKE IT VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO AVOID GOING INTO THEM!!"

WOWWWWWWWWW! What an admission!

And his nexxt gem?

"There have been complaints, but it is a useful source of income!"

Lambeth also makes a mint out of residential parking permits, clamping, and hopes to make a lot more when the Super Wardens start running around zealously and gleefully charging us £100 a time for the slightest driving error!

Was in today's "Mail on Sunday"

B-J will probably edit and get the link for you all to read for yourselves!

Beggars belief that Lambeth Councillor, Peter O'Connell (Lab) actually admitted this to a National Paper!

Cheers

The Wacky Racing Gangsters

A friend of mine has just received an £80 'fine' for 'failing to re-new RFL' on time.
The 'offence' relates to a car which was 'cannibalized' for 'spare parts' last AUGUST!
The remains of said car now lie in a scrap yard!
DVLA were 'notified of disposal of vehicle' by post, saddly, my friend did not obtain a proof of posting slip, and DVLA will, no doubt claim 'not to have received' the said document.
He initially intended to pay the fine as he is unable to prove that he notified DVLA of the scrapping of the car, but I have advised against this and told him to challenge the notification, as DVLA have to prove that the vehicle was kept/used on a public highway 'after' the tax expired!

The car was 'still' taxed after being 'scrapped', this ran out on 31-12-03! my friend didn't even claim the refund of duty to which he was entitled because "It was too much bother" as he said to me!

How many more 'innocents' will/have suffer(ed) the same fate?

I am intent on following this one through on my friends behalf (he is very wary of the outcome and says he would, "Rather 'pay up' than cause further problems" but I have decided to 'make a stand' on this matter, as I am certain (so certain in fact, that I have told my friend that if, 'IF' we lose, then I will pay all of the costs incurred!) of 'victory' on this stance!!

More later.....

Hanbo

Pity your mate did not make any photocopies of "disposal" notification.

DVLA are notorious for "losing" documents as they are bureaucr4p at their jobs!

At this stage, his best bet is to take a photo of the car's remains in said scrap yard, obtain a signed letter from scrapyard owner confirming that car's remains have been on premises since August last. Then he should write a nice polite letter again informing them of all known details, enclosing the photos of the car and documents obtained from the scrappy, and stating that he had posted original forms in good faith in the Royal Mail's services!

This has worked for one client of mine - but then again this was before the nice little earner of £80 came into being!

Good luck!

Cheers!

Beagle

the Legal Wacky Racer!

Hi there Legal Eagle Beagle:

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

However, me, being a man of principals, (and a stubborn git) I shall 'bulldoze' my way through this and openly challenge DVLA to 'Prove' that the car is/was/has been/will be, on a public highway and legally require a current RFL!

Could, possibly 'Open the Floodgates' so to speak.

If all else fails I shall try your suggested approach, but, any 'Evidence' (photos/letters etc) will be kept for the courts to make the final decision on the matter.

May I ask, do you think 'my way' is the wise way?

Thanks again!

Hanbo

Of course the plates may have been nicked and being used on a rogue car!

Would be interesting to see any photo evidence the DVLA has for comparison. Chap on other forum had this kind of nonsense with a Capri in his Dad's garage. Chap was working in Switzerland at the time. DVLA claimed that car was brown Montego with no tax!

Before you embark on any action - you should call in at the CAB and ask to see the Duty Solicitor for free advice.

If there is a LAW Centre in your area - the CAB will tell you where it is.

Check out the library for the low down on law firms. Some offer a free Saturday mjorning consultation session - though this is up to the individual practice.

If car was in scrap dealer since August and you have evidence that this is the case, then they have no case!

Hope this helps!

Cheers!

Beagle

>Of course the plates may have been nicked and being used on a rogue car!

Does'nt come into it Beagle, as far as I am aware (I have not seen the document in question as it was sent to his mothers A/D 20mls away and he can only remember a few details at present) there is no mention of the said vehicle being 'seen on a public highway' simply, you have failed to re-licence the car in the permitted time £80 full stop.

Hence my stand against it!

Surely this 'case' or any other would be thrown out of court (if DVLA would dare take it that far!) due to lack of evidence, the onus is on DVLA to provide 'proof' of the alleged 'offence' is it not?

A similar thing happened to me late last year, I received a letter from DVLA stating that a car registered to me had been seen on the road without a tax disc!
The letter contained a (threat, disguised as a) 'request' to 'Pay Up-Or Else'
I contacted DVLA and explained that the car had been sold to a person whose name I couldn't remember, I was advised to put this in writing to DVLA which I did, and have heard nothing since!

Has this 'escape route' gone out the window?

I shall inform you of the full details on the said document when my buddy visits his mum and obtains it.
Unless you are conversant with the contents of these notifications?? (NIPS???)

Thanks Again!

Sound to me that your mate has reasonable grounds for appealing against this fine.

Your mate should in the first instance:

Write to DVLA explaining that vehicle was scrapped last August, and that original notification "in accordance" was sent by ordinary post, and that owing to his trust in Royal Mail, he had, unfortunately, not obtained proof of posting at the time.

Tell them that their letter threatening the fine of £80 was first he had heard that something was amiss, and that he is very, very anxious about it! He had assumed that the document advising them of the scrapped vehicle had reached them and records had been amended accordingly.

Enclose anything which will prove vehicle was scrapped.

Tell them that he hopes this is sufficient data for them to amend their records.

Send this letter by recorded delivery.

As per previous post, gather as much evidence as possible to prove that said vehicle was in knackers' yard in bits since last August.

See the CAB's duty solicitor for extra advice and consult the Yellow pages for any freebies offered by law practices in your area. The reference library may also offer similar listings!

Your mate is quite in order to write to the DVLA to explain the situation. He posted document in good faith and it is not his fault that the letter is lost either in the Post or even at the DVLA! Providing he writes a nice polite letter stating the facts and making plain he can prove car was scrapped long since , he should be OK, even under the car hating climate we are in!

Know of company which unusually still purchases own cars for Directors, Senior Staff and Reps. They sold a car, notified DVLA who "lost" the documents. Whoever bought it got NIPPED, and company got hounded for failure to give driver details! Nothing more was heard after firm wrote and explained disposal to DVLA. Took several letters for it to register with pea-brained barsteward at the Scamsh!t! (What a Surprise).

Hope this helps!

Cheers!

Beagle

It's much more fun to stifle debate on another group with complete tripe such as:..................



For the rest of Anonanus/Pubic Dirty's contribution to the debate see:

Pubic Dirty's Spam Thread

"Daily Mail" Tuesday, 27 Jan 2004

"DRIVERS PAY PRICE OF LEGAL AID CUTS"

Drivers will carry burden of legal aid cuts. Means testing will prevent middle class motorists on driving charges qualifying for state-funded lawyers!

Burglars and violent offenders will still get legal representation funded by the middle class taxpayers!
(and all other law abiding taxpayers - we mention the middle class only because they are the ones who are penalised most here - and they are the ones hit hardest in the payment of the tuition of these lawyers as well!)

The middle classes will be lumbered with fees of up to £500 if they contest any charges. (Speeding has never qualified for legal aid as there is the good old fixed penalty and folks accept it as the cheaper option!)

Again, it is penalising and offering rough justice to anyone (across the whole spectrum of society) who drives a car! More will go to jail for minor offences.

Labour Minister David Lammy announced this Whammy yesterday! He insists it is not a stealth tax!

YEAHHH?

Like we said on another thread - road to a police state! The eutopia which involves Labour politicians riding around in cars, fat barstewards of Chief Cons bursting out of uniforms, and the nanny state controlling our every movement!