More Plans To Get Britons On Their Bikes

By David Stringer, PA News                                                   Sun 3 Oct 2004

ABD News

2004-Sep-29

DVLA Plan to Introduce Annual "Registration Tax" on all Vehicles

A consultation document recently issued by the DVLA details plans to introduce a new tax on all cars registered on their system, even ones that are not used on the road by their owners.

 

 

> And who will pay for all this (and all the hospitals, doctors, nurses, schools, teachers, social workers, state
> pensions, benefits........) when they drive us out of our cars?

Do tell us, Mr B.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to break down the total amounts received in general taxation, duty and other income for the exchequer, then the amount received in motorist-specific taxation. Go on, be a devil and include all the speeding fines - I know you'll want to, even though they aren't really a tax.

When you've done that, tell us what proportion of all exchequer income is accounted for in motorist specific taxation (here's a clue, it isn't all that much).

Then, for a final flourish, you could tell us how much is spent on education, pensions, health, welfare and all those other good things you pointed out. How much of a contribution are motorists really making? Not all that much whan you consider the costs they also contribute.

LP

Why don't you check it out.

I think you'll find it's abour a seventh of the treasury's revenue.

Without things like fines.

 

And bear in mind that legit drivers are probably the people who pay most of all the other taxes as well.

Did you know that only about 15% of the population pay council tax, for example?!

 

And as for the costs, perhaps you'd like to break that down for us.

 

The "cost" of the air pollution that is blamed on cars, was actually reported as being caused by "traffic".

And the "traffic" blamed was buses and trains and the power stations that fuel trams and trains.

 

The global warming "cost" blamed on traffic is a myth anyway.

Even if it isn't cars produce an infinitesimally small proportion of man made CO2, never mind the total CO2 produced, never mind the total greenhouse "gases", most of which is water, which the environMentalists leave out because technically it isn't a gas, even though it's the main contributor to the greenhouse effect.

And most of that "cost" blamed on cars is the cost of half the world being flooded:

Even though the sea levels are falling if anything!

 

Accidents?

Good Grief:

Most of the "cost" is the "cost" of "grief"!

And insured motorists are charged the costs of road accidents, even if they had nothing to do with them!

 

Oh, and don't forget the "cost" of congestion".

That's a bit like a supermarket closing all but one of its checkouts,

Then adding a charge to every customer's bill for what the delay to each customer cost the customer!

 

Get a grip you lily-arsed pasty-rear.

You've spent too long in the saddle and it's played havoc with your hormones!

 

And as for speeding fines not being a tax?!

When you get fined for doing under the previous limit when the limit has been lowered but illegally, or is improperly, or unsigned?

When you get fined for doing within the limit?

When you get fined for doing under 30, under 20, under 10, under 5mph?!

 

What would you call that except a toll on transport?

 

So, are you a T2000 spin doctor?

Or just a troll?

 

Laliarse Pisstiass

I drive because there is no affordable nor convenient public transport to get me to and from work - especially on awkward early and night shifts.

Even when working days - it would take me almost two hours in waits for buses and journey times.

Ride a bike? Even then - we are talking a long distance which would take even longer than the bus - not to mention arriving cold, wet and uncomfortable to my place of work.

If we all cycled - even longer and I have been to China for a holiday once. They all rode bikes and they all jostled for position on the roads. It looked very dangerous to me - and I did ask about casualty rates out of interest.

They are very frighteningly HIGH!

As for my contribution to the public purse....

I pay my indirect taxes on goods and services, council taxes, PAYE/NIC (I pay my own wages here ....haha! And pay taxes to pay myself ....).

I also drive a car. I paid tax when I bought the car, tax on my garage services and sundry repairs, bits and bobs for it, tax and mega amounts of duty on my petrol and oil, and I pay taax on my insurance for my car too. Not to mention my car tax disc.

All of this goes into the public pot - and I pay for the roads you use, your prescription charges, your tax credits, and probably your incapacity benefit and anti-depressants because you sound pretty mental to me....

My £85 to Lancashire County Council for my "naughty driver's course" - well ... about £10 for the video, 4p for the manky spam sandwiches on cheapo bread, and perhaps a £20 refund with the later goodies they sent me on the anniversary of my little tiff with the speed cam. (And remember - they have 4 classes of 25 per 5 day working week - they make a fair profit on this...)

The rest went to pay for the ADI (about £250 per day), hire of room and more speed cameras to make more money.....this and the rest of the thousands of punds of fine dosh - keep silly people in the partnerships off the dole queue as they are practically unemployable elsewhere.

Now do you get the picture?

Lucy,

Did I suggest that you, or anyone else, should be cycling?

My only concern here has been Mr B's somewhat misleading assertion that motorists are paying for all the fine public services he listed in his original post.

As Mr B has admitted subsequently, motorists are only meeting 15% of the cost of these services. Somewhat less than he had implied in his original post.

Like you, I pay a substantial sum in tax. Some of this is on the cars that I run, most is on my earnings. Unlike you, I resent not a single penny of it, for it helps to provide education, healthcare, infrastructure and welfare for others.

Such services seem to me to be quite worthwhile. You appear to disagree.

LP

Still Trolling Lillyarse?

 

You claim:

My only concern here has been Mr B's somewhat misleading assertion that motorists are paying for all the fine public services he listed in his original post.

Feel free to point out where I asserted that.

And feel free to answer my question sometime:

What do you think will happen to the economy when that happens?

As Mr B has admitted subsequently, motorists are only meeting 15% of the cost of these services. Somewhat less than he had implied in his original post.

No, I said:

Why don't you check it out.

I think you'll find it's abour a seventh of the treasury's revenue.

Without things like fines.

And bear in mind that legit drivers are probably the people who pay most of all the other taxes as well.

Did you know that only about 15% of the population pay council tax, for example?!

Do try to keep up!

"Liberal-arse" then "volunteered":

Like you, I pay a substantial sum in tax. Some of this is on the cars that I run, most is on my earnings. Unlike you, I resent not a single penny of it, for it helps to provide education, healthcare, infrastructure and welfare for others.

Such services seem to me to be quite worthwhile. You appear to disagree.

Why do you think that the fact that they are worthwhile gives you and your ilk the right to "volunteer" one section of society to pay for them all?

Surely as motorists pay for their own transport out of their own pocket and effectively subsidise public transport users and cyclists by virtue of the fact that they pay disproportionate levels of tax, whilst the latter enjoy subsidised public transport and transport infrastructure:

It is public transport users and cyclists who should be paying over the odds out of their greater disposable income to pay for all those benefits (which they gain a disproportionate benefit from).

 

Oh, and perhaps you'd like to answer my other question sometime:

And as for the costs, perhaps you'd like to break that down for us.

I notice that you couldn't even respond when I broke them down for you!

Laliarse Pisttiachio Nutter!

(Well - if you will have a silly name and not something sensible like Lucy - (that's my real middle name by the way - and I may be as daft as Lucy - but I really look more of a Marilyn as in Monroe - sugar!)


You said you pay substantial sum in tax - most on earnings and not as much from your car.

Well ... I too pay a lot of direct PAYE tax. I am not that badly paid - but I am hardly in the luxury class. The tax on my car's bits and bobs is a hefty slice of my disposable income after direct tax. People who earn a lot more than me and afford these whopping cars - it is also a lot of money. You say the cars ({PLURAL) that you run... so you have fleet of company cars perhaps as well and one private one.

Hardly the same thing is is sugar plum! Oh - I happen to need my car too. You any idea how frequent the public transport - which I pay for indirectly at high cost - actually runs at odd shift hours?

Now I may but a lowly Nursy girl - but I do read the quality press and take interest in the economy and world outside the A&E unit where I regularly deal with some very nasty characters after a drunken night out.....for which I require danger money!


You said

"Unlike you I resent not a penny because it helps pay for education, healthcare, infrastructure and welfare"


Education?

Oh - you mean the year on year increase in A starry starry grades - and then we find they cannot even read when they join us as hospital porters and auxiliaries...

My teenage sons are at a state comprehensive and according to their school reports - genius levels. HUH?

If they are genius - I am Einstein and Mozart rolled into one - with nursing qualifications (am Sister actually) as bonus. (I have heard of Einstein - do not fully understand his Physics as I postively hated Physics at school - so boring - but do like Mozart - (well - that film Amadeus -anyway.... and I did go on holiday to Salzburg and ate his balls...made of chocolate and filled with marzipan and something else....before you get odder ideas about me!)

Healthcare?


bwwwwaaaaaaahha-hahahahahahhahahahahahaha! (Gasp!) I work in "healthcare" - and if you mean those waiting lists have come down .... er... well.... no ...still got loads of people waiting to see the doctor. They just see me and my girls for assessment and provided me see them within two and half hours ...waiting lists have "fallen". They just wait several hours for X-rays, doctors and pharmacist ........after that.

Infrastructure?

Er.... you mean the roads with pot holes and faded speed limit signs and brand new rectangles with photos on them? Or do you mean the expensive train, bus, tram which never run to time as everything is the wrong kind of everything?


Welfare for others?

You mean - those hangers on on the dole? asylum seekers? that terrorist bloke with the Captain Hook hand? The uninsured driver who get means tested for their fine - so it is actually cheaper to chance it on basis that they will never be copped by speed cam (and even if they are - they neve ask to see proof of insurance or MOT - only proof of your licence when they endorse it or send you on the naughty driver's course....)

Oh - I do not resent paying my taxes providing the money is spent correctly - on the things I expect it to be spent on - providing a good standard of service for all - like buses for my early and late shifts, the staff, medicines, scanners, and other equipment required in a modern hospital in 21 st cenrtury, my kids educated to the A level standard I received. I am not getting this - nor is anyone else - including you!

I do very much resent my money being squandered on micky mouse schemes, propping up chavs and yobs, MPs whopping expenses (£160k notched up by a Labour MP in Crosby - and do not say it was commuting London to Liverpool and hiring staff to type for her. Fancy dinners and such no doubt .... easy to spend on gourmet fillet steak if you are not actually paying for it!)

I resent my money being wasted on a war which was waged on false claims (WMD and 45 minutes to destruction? Yeah right - all that GPS stuff and still not found? Hah!) Oh - is the world any safer as a result of this? - Ask Mr Bigley and Mrs Hassan and those Americans......and our boys out there!

So you bet I resent tax liable on my hard earned dosh being wasted like this.

You may earn enough not to resent you contribution to society being squandered.

I pay taxes to pay myself and my colleagues and we resent the tax on our meagre salaries being squandered.

So there!

Had hard day at work by the way ... have this weekend off but have to work Hallowe'en next week which will be a nightmare....and I feel better for a rant!

Mr B,

You said (and I quote) "I think you'll find it's abour a seventh of the treasury's revenue."

That is, as I'm sure your elementary maths will tell you, 15% of total revenues (as I pointed out). So motorists aren't really paying the lion's share of all those public services, are they?


Lucy,

You may well be familiar with Mozart, but you are clearly unfamiliar with Bizet (a composer with whom I'm familiar, thanks to a state education).

As for the rest, rant on, if it makes you feel better. I shall remain reasonably happy with my childrens' education (state provided), my family's healthcare (also state provided and so far, very efficient and effective) and the knowledge that, while there are areas for concern, the bulk of public spending is both efficiently deployed and well targeted.

LP.

LP

How can you say that the money that is taken in taxes is well spent.!!!
"Education, Education, Education" ring a bell with anyone.

The schools round here are falling down because they don't have enough money to spend on the buildings ( well they could spend some but books and teachers would have to go) The class sizes are 40/45 per class, hey not to worry (if you aint brite enuff yull leave scool and go on the dole) while the teacher concentrates on the ones who can do the work.

What about the firms who are now doing numeracy and literacy classes because most of the school leavers who apply for the jobs can't do basic maths or read and write properly.
As for the healthcare don't make me laugh.

A family member of mine had to go private after finding a lump in her breast. She had had a masactomy before she would even be seen by a consultant on the NHS.

Great Britain (if anyone can find this place please let me know) as I want out of the country that I am living in at the moment

Well said Woody

Only time I'd get on me bike is if I got twelve points, which is No chance that happening, some of us are considerate drivers { off topic but I wished there was some contact numbers where you could report someone & make em retake their tests, in a left hand lane does NOt allow you to turn right on a roundabout & them double white jobbies in the middle of the road means no boy racers can whupp ur ass, those - - - - - - ones MEAN give way }

Forgot where i was lol..... oh is no WAY u get me on a bus either, I'd rather Walk & nar I dont need the excercise

Boggie, why havnt U got a scroll down jobbie that I can remember what I replying to ?? I watching terrorists on the telly @ same time, even I aint superwoman :D

As a matter of fact Lily Pastyface - I am quite familiar with Carmen - about the spanish gypsy.

I love Mozart though - I went on a package holiday (don't laugh - it was a cheap package coach trip --- "Sound Of Muzak Tour for Chavs!" Discovered Mozart's balls on this ...

I listen to Beethoven and Offenbach and Chopin - and I went to a state grammar school....but that was when education delivered.....

It does not now ... keep hearing about these wonderful grades they get .... people are not getting cleverer to this extent and teachers are working as hard as they have always done in the past - in my opinion.

I do not bash teachers, police or firemen nor my colleagues in the NHS... but we do suffer from crass politicians who just waste our money ......on wars and really naff ideas.

Yes .... I know people with suspected cancers who have been waiting 6 months for a scan - people are not surviving to level that idiot minister said yesterday - a complacent oaf if ever there was one.....

By the time these people get their scan - cancers will have spread to livers and brains - and they die from the secondary cancers.....

Waiting lists down? You need to read more .....assuming your state education taught you to read between lines.....

And as for the witch hunt against drivers.....how on earth can you argue that a speed camera saves lives? I have seen people screech to halt when they see them..... because here in Lancs - they were fining below guidelines and we all knew it once we all got prosecuted..... The speed course was good - and I am not going to deny it (and the experience and influence of some people who were once regular on here encouraged me do an IAM test) - but I am still angry over being invited to it for 4mph above 30 mph on road which used to be 40 mph speed limit one very early Sunday morning last summer - and made to feel as if I were some criminal when the NIP arrived. They have allegedly changed the rules - but people here still do not trust them.

Besides - another sting in all this is that not all of the cameras are loaded with film - and I suspect the ones in the real danger zones are not loaded and the ones in the lucrative spots where they are more concealed are....

Why else would Lancs still have increasing death rate when it is county where you are most likely to lose your driving licence?

No mate - I agree with Lancs about the speed course - but not about how they went (or still do) go about inviting people to it.

Frankly - there should be more encouragement and incentive to learn a bit more about driving ... and I paid £85 for the Speed Course and £80 to IAM (and get it back on insurance premium discount by bit of shopping around). The IAM was money well spent - and the Lancs Course ..... got video, fluorescent jacket, tyre pressure gauge, key ring, and glove compartment handy tips pack, spam sandwiches and a country drive .....but still think they invited wrong type of "offender" to the course.....and it comes across as money making....