This forum was established to inform and facilitate discussion about the Boundary Waters
Canoe Area in northeastern Minnesota and the Quetico Park in Ontario, Canada. This forum
was established on October 26th, 1998.
To all you boat builders i am looking for a link to a sight where i can get a craddle kit of a canoe or a row boat for my grand child any info would be nice thanks in advance.
Photo-editing works great - Isaac had just thrown up all over my shirt! That's all my grandkids - Maya, Lucy, Isaac and Elena, and the girls in their Christmas dress-up garb. Today, we are home relaxing after shoveling out the driveway after the plows finally came thru. Even the dogs are exhausted after the fun chaos of yesterday!
Last we heard, John and Lynn, not to commercialize, were stranded in the DC airport. Did they make it out? Are they still stuck in DC or stranded on a train or stuck in the back of a Uhaul with a Polka Group from the Cities?
If only they had used one of those SPOT devices, we could have kept track and Santa could have found them to deliver their christmass goodies.
Heres hoping everyone has a great christmass day and is safe and warm wherever they are.
My nephew and his buddies enjoyed the ice scraper with mitt that I sent them in Iraq. It was camo!!
The first day's flights (12/20) were cancelled due to some strange white stuff that fell on the city (@ 16-20 inches).
I finally got hold of NW Airlines around 8 that night to ask for another day & flight. Unfortunately, all they could find at that time was a mid day flight going out on Christmas Eve!
John wasn't happy with that at all so I went back to Orbitz and found flights that would take us from DC to Pennsylvania then to Chicago and finally to Duluth. Of course for that many flights, and a lot of layover time, we didn't make it to Duluth until almost 10 pm. But at least we were there 3 days earlier than NW set up.
Now I just have to wait for NW to email me about what they are going to refund to my credit card for the flights that were not able to be used. I called them to cancel the flights for the 24th & they sounded glad that I was able to take care of it myself so they didn't have to do it. (they had a 3 hour waiting time on the phones, at least!)
So we got home in time for John's B-day and before the big storm hit Duluth on the 23rd with the snow that fell (about 14-24 inches). That would have been "fun" on the 24th if we had stayed with that flight itinerary. We probably would have been stuck somewhere else with that too.
We had a nice Christmas though Ely only has gotten about 3-5 inches at most of the snow that has been going through Minnesota the last 4 days.
Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas & will have a great New Year too!
BDW, coming up for New Year's Eve? (& did you receive your Gazette?)
Not to commercialize, but just to let you know I am one of those "outfitter types"
HALLELUJAH CHORUS*
from the Messiah by George Frederik Haendel
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth, Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
for the Lord God omnipotnet reigneth, Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
for the Lord God omnipotnet reigneth, Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
The kingdom of this world is become the kingdom of our Lord,
and of His Christ, and of His Christ;
and He shall reign for ever and ever, forever and ever
and He shall reign, and He shall reign, and He shall reign for ever,
for ever, for ever, for ever and ever, for ever, for ever and ever,
for ever and ever, Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
for ever and ever, Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
for ever and ever, Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
for ever and ever, Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
King of Kings and Lord or Lords
and He shall reign for ever and ever
and He shall reign for ever and ever
King of Kings, for ever and ever
and Lord of Lords, Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
and He shall reign for ever, for ever and ever,
King of Kings! and Lord of Lords!
KIng of Kings! and Lord of Lords!
and He shall reign for ever and ever,
for ever and ever, for ever and ever,
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
*The exact words vary for the four voices.
Words above are a "mix" bridging the gaps that exist for various voices.
may have wondered why the audience stands during the singing of the Hallelujah Chorus. The following exerpt from Wikipedia explains the origin of this:
"In many parts of the world, it is the accepted practice for the audience to stand for this section of the performance. Tradition has it that King George II rose to his feet at this point. As the first notes of the triumphant Hallelujah Chorus rang out, the king rose. Royal protocol has always demanded that whenever the monarch stands, so does everyone in the monarch's presence. Thus, the entire audience and orchestra stood too, initiating a tradition that has lasted more than two centuries. It is lost to history the exact reason why the King stood at that point, but the most popular explanations include:
As was and is the custom, one stands in the presence of royalty as a sign of respect. The Hallelujah chorus clearly places Christ as the King of Kings. In standing, King George II accepts that he too is subject to Lord of Lords.
He was so moved by the performance that he rose to his feet.
He arrived late to the performance, and the crowd rose when he finally made an appearance.
His gout acted up at that precise moment and he rose to relieve the discomfort.
After an hour of musical performance, he needed to stretch his legs."
When through the woods and forest glades I wander, and hear
the birds sing sweetly in the trees: when I look down from lofty
mountain grandeur and hear the brook, and feel the gentle
breeze: then sings my soul, my Savior God to thee: how great thou art!
Our son in Iraq who is the person in the back row on the left in the picture just posted this message on face book. "Had the Christmas Eve service here. 2 Chaplains played guitar while a civilian contractor sang O Holy Night. Then we did the traditional candle lighting and everyone walked outside with them and we got in a circle for the benediction... it was real nice. "We're doing the best we can in the place that God placed."
Merry Christmas to all our service people.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sherwin
When through the woods and forest glades I wander, and hear
the birds sing sweetly in the trees: when I look down from lofty
mountain grandeur and hear the brook, and feel the gentle
breeze: then sings my soul, my Savior God to thee: how great thou art!
Barb in KC
____________________________________________
"We listened for a voice crying in the wilderness.
And we heard the jubilation of wolves!"
Durwood L. Allen
Obviously you didn't do enough dishwashing with your grandmother when you were young LOL! A "Chore girl" is a brand of plastic scrubby. A "Chore Boy" was a metal scrubby.
At least not in conjunction with the convention that I had always attended in Bloomington. This year, they moved the convention to the casino at Hinkley.
Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend that either. I have a scheduling conflict with another work event in Wisconsin that takes precedence.
No one ever looks back on their life and regrets the adventures they've had.
______________________________________________________________
Pete
I was amazed with how "flexible" the wood was. I'm using Black Ash for the stem bands. The entire kayak is being made from wood from my property. I found a large dead black ash, that had fallen over and was leaning against another. The wood was still in great shape. The strips for the kayak are Aspen. That tree was also dead (still standing) and from my property. Both trees were milled into slabs and are now becoming part of my kayak. The Black Ash will also be used for cockpit combing and accent strips on the deck.
"The movement of a canoe is like a reed in the wind. Silence is part of it, and the sounds of lapping water, bird songs, and wind in the trees. It is part of the medium through which it floats, the sky, the water, the shores. A man is part of his canoe and therefore part of all it knows."
- Sigurd Olson
"The movement of a canoe is like a reed in the wind. Silence is part of it, and the sounds of lapping water, bird songs, and wind in the trees. It is part of the medium through which it floats, the sky, the water, the shores. A man is part of his canoe and therefore part of all it knows."
- Sigurd Olson
Actually I've also done quite a bit of carving with the MN Aspen my buddy from Warroad country gives me. It's not as good as basswood or tupelo by any means, but it does well enough and is strong enough to hold up well in the smaller details of a bird. I carved some "sticking out" moose antlers on the blade of a paddle made from aspen. Worked up the fine points with no problem. And, depending on how "interesting" the grain, it can look very good with several coats of oil finish.
Merry Christmas to you and yours.
...Randy
And...Speckled...I hope you have a good Christmas vacation with some spare time to spend on your canoe building. Keep posting the pics. I sure like to see them.
will make a really sharp contrast to the Aspen. Using that for the combing and "riser" will be drop dead gorgeous. When the epoxy hits it it's going to really pop out. Can't wait.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tim Eastman (Woodbender)
Be an example worth following.
Someone posted a u-tube link to Ray Mears Northern Wilderness. With dial-up it is like watching paint dry. Hopeless to download. With some digging I found a 2 DVD set produced by the BBC that is available on AmazonUK (Came within a week) About 400 minutes run time. Only thing is it is DVD9x2 Format and will only work on my newest DVD player so some guys may have trouble with it.
Set is called Ray Mears Northern Wilderness
Worth having on the shelf
I took these photos a month or so ago. I had mentioned that I had an idea about making a carrier for 30L. barrels. All I had to do was remove the "kick stand" by removing two bolts, then cut two straps under the seat opening up a single cavity to stuff the barrel in and cinch up the straps and I was done. It weighs 7lbs. It has padded shoulder straps, hip belt, and a strenem strap, which makes it comfortable to carry.
"Bright Beat the Water - Memories of a Wilderness Artist" by John L. Peyton.
According to a note on the inside cover, I bought this book in January, 2005. For some forgotten reason it lay, unread, on my bookshelf until recently. I just completed reading it today. It covers a lifetime of paddling, hunting, poaching, wilderness living, and eventually, environmental concern by the author, his wife, children and grandchildren.
It also has a generous supply of humor, as shown in the exerpts I copy in abbreviated form, following.
"Roe MacKenzie and I had just come down a portage into Pickerel Lake at the top of Quetico... We raced the waves down thirty miles of the lake and camped near its eastern end, dining well on its round bodied, golden namesake.... Next morning we trailed a spoon for more of the same. A launch came speeding out, manned by a pair of those Canadian types with broad-billed hats.....Good morning, may I see your travel permit, please? We don't have any. Your fishing licenses, then? We don't have those either. I'm sorry, you'll have to come with us. We sat in their shore office looking as young and innocent as we could while they discussed a procedural problem...."
"I'll tell you what we'll do. The permit fee is $2.00. That let's you fish inside the park. You pay that and I'll write one out for you. That stretches the rules a bit.... That would be fine with us if we had $2.00. I did have a checking account in Proctor, but no checkbook with me.... If they would give me one of their checks, I'd change the name of the bank. They had no checks.
I saw a brown paper sack on the shelf. I'll write wou a check on a piece of that bag.....
The transaction completed, they invited us to stay for lunch. In the course of time the sticky-sweet little brown check cleared and was paid, not without comment by my co-workers at the bank.
Warning to brother poachers: don't count on that kind of treatment if you get caught fishing without a license in Ontario nowadays."
The book is filled with a lifetime of serious and humerous events, mostly taking place in northern Mionnesota and the Candaian shore of Lake Superior.
I was looking up Sunsets for hunting season and noticed that they do odd things in December. Although the shortest day of the year is the 21st, Sunsets this year actually started getting later around the 12th(Sunrises got more later, so the days were still shortening). Sunrises don't start start getting earlier till a week or so in January. A search found this:http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=208
and the earth is nearest the sun on or about Jan. 8. When we're near the sun, the earth has to rotate more than 360* to return to sunrise/sunset compared to the previous day. This would still be true even if the axis tilt were zero. The interaction of these several factors, makes the problem difficult to visualize and calculate.
The 24 hour period we call "day" is just the average of the length of days over the whole year, but some days are actually shorter and others longer than 24 hours.
Gotta love that 8:07 sunrise on Jan 6. 'Tater and I can
sleep 'til 6:30 and be sittin' in the cattails 15 min
before shooting time. (provided we aren't friz out...)
I actually went out duck hunting after deer hunting season was over(and had better success). I have been pretty spoiled hunting up at my Uncle's farm. It's about an hour north of me, I usually get there around 11:00, eat lunch, walk the ponds for an hour, shoot my limit, go back and take a nap. The only time I've seen a sunrise in the last year was deer opener. That's why I'm more interested in the sunsets getting later, and not that concerned about the length of the day.
Look also at the minutes of morning and evening sun lost/day, coming into the solstice....it's asymmetrical. Then look at the minutes of morning and evening sunlight gained coming out of the solstice....also asymmetrical...but in an inverse fashion.
How do you explain the superasymmetry and inverse superasymmetry that causes us to have to adjust our clocks in the spring and fall? I guess they're looking for that answer in the Soudan Mine.
This eccentricity of the earths orbit also is known as the equation of time to those familiar with sundials. Essentially there are times of the year when the sun appears to move fast and crosses the south meridian before local apparent noon and times when it appears slow. At the beginning of December the sun is 11 minutes fast but right on time on Dec. 25, thereby appearing to take longer to reach the same point in the sky resulting in the later sunsets even with decreasing solar declinations.
scientific elites to take away our hard earned money and freedoms. Are there really seasons? Are they naturally occurring or manmade? I don't see winter happening in the Amazon! Res ipsa loquitur.
Howdoyalike the OT subtag? Like it's really needed for a response to a solodavo post.
And wow, my liberal sensitivities perk up at that graphic...it's so mid-late 1930s Germany (except for the spliff).
"scientists" know more about money and freedom then almost enybody. (And you're right about that "OT" solodavo guy...He never says enything that's reverent to the conversation.)
here at christmass. We all know the baby jesus was laid under a christmass tree in his stable. I have seen the scene recreated in front of numerous churches across this great land.
I know Santa was based on Odin and perhaps another saint (nicholas) some say, but how in the hell does he get the reindeer to fly? No wonder our founding american christians banned christmass.
Merry Christmass to all and hope santa brings you something nice to play with on your next trip.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." Mark Twain
"The movement of a canoe is like a reed in the wind. Silence is part of it, and the sounds of lapping water, bird songs, and wind in the trees. It is part of the medium through which it floats, the sky, the water, the shores. A man is part of his canoe and therefore part of all it knows."
- Sigurd Olson
"The movement of a canoe is like a reed in the wind. Silence is part of it, and the sounds of lapping water, bird songs, and wind in the trees. It is part of the medium through which it floats, the sky, the water, the shores. A man is part of his canoe and therefore part of all it knows."
- Sigurd Olson
"The movement of a canoe is like a reed in the wind. Silence is part of it, and the sounds of lapping water, bird songs, and wind in the trees. It is part of the medium through which it floats, the sky, the water, the shores. A man is part of his canoe and therefore part of all it knows."
- Sigurd Olson
This would certainly be an interesting stop on the way to Ely. I have been on the Soudan mine tour before but with the new developments this is going to be high on my list of things to see.
I viewed all the slides telling what they do here- I had no idea this was going on at the mines. This makes me want to stop there too, next time I am up 'dere. I live close to the Fermi labs too, interesting to see how they "react" to one another.
I do wonder though, how much they paid for the commissioned mural that adorns their wall. Bet it wasn't cheap, but, then again, nothing like a nice mural to enhance your scientific fervor.
while on a Geology Workshop. There is a big contrast from being in the mine to stepping into the lab. If you are a teacher and like geology I recommend looking into the workshops put on by the MN DNR.
When we were taking the elevator down, my son asked, "Will we die?" At that time (not likely now) some of the people in charge of answering visitor questions were former workers at the mine. Ours remarked how the work was very dusty and when Saturday came, it was necessary to drink "pretty strong stuff" for two days to clear your throat and lungs. Even if not exactly necessary, it was recommended by the old-timers.
you never know when somebody might be looking for a little government funding and it could be that Hank the the Janitor just happened to sneeze something on to the target that they thought was the dark matter.
Probably another scam that will be hyped by the main stream media until it becomes conventional wisdom. In the meantime, I plan to cash in on a dark matter trading scheme until it is exposed by Fox news at which time the other networks will expand their insistence that the science is settled and demonstrate their faith by increasing investments.
both parts of the mine are great stops to go to...although those guys that wear ties talk stuff that makes me think they have been in the dark too long.
bob
"Those who stop where reason and instinct command never reach the best and highest places of all" Bill Gilbert
approaches the speed of light, (and
nutrinos are real close), one's mass
must approach infinite size. Sooooo
can I blame Einstein or are all the
Christmas cookies to blame???????????????
But not much of what most people envision when they think of old growth forests. Even though large areas of the BW have never been logged or developed, the thin soil and nasty climate challenges the life span of even long-lived tree species. I dont think you will find any significant acreage of predominately large trees; or at least I have not seen much, just a few here and there. Most of the forest in the BW is really a mess.
To see stands of timber which most people envision when they talk of old growth, I would recommend the Porcupine mountains, Sylvania, or the Black River harbor area all in the western U.P. of Michigan.
I recall reading on a link provided a year or two back on this BB. Some of the ceders are 200-300 years old! It's amazing! During controlled burns, they were saved from destruction by being watered down in advance.
I believe it showed "Old Growth Timber" along the Souix - Hustler trail north of the portage from Lower Pauness to the Little Indian Souix River as in flows to Loon Lake.
There is a campsite on Shell in the bay over to Little Shell and there are some pretty large pines on the campsite.
There might have been some noted south of the Lower Pauness Lake to Shell Lake Portage also. I think a few of our friends have winter camped in that area along the Souix-Hustler trail.
...have hiked this trail (which has a lot of big old white pines):
Old Pines Trail - This trail leaves the Snowbank Trail just north of Becoosin Lake. The highlight of this trail is the stand of large, virgin white pine, most of which are well over 300 years old. From the pine stand, the trail swings north to Alworth Lake and then back near Disappointment Mountain, then between Disappointment and Absub and eventually back to the Snowbank trail near the Boot Lake portage. There is another loop that swings south to Becoosin and Benezie Lakes. The Old Pines Trail has several scenic overlooks along the way. This trail is within BWCA. A separate map is available.
By far the best group of old growth that I have seen in the BWCA was just south of Pagent Lake on the Siox Hustler trail. We came off of Heritage lake up the portage to Loon Lake and followed the SH trail up to Pagent. North of the creek that goes into Loon is a large area of magnifacent trees, both red and whites. They are along the trail and back into the woods. We were very surprised at how much undergrowth was still under these trees, I had expected a open forest much like Sylvania is. If you do get to Sylvania, take the portage from Crooked to Mountain (prettiest short portage in the world) and veer into the woods as you get to the ridge above Mountain lake. The trees are awesome there, almost enchanted. My favorite place though is the island on Mountain, about the size of a city block and NO undergrowth, the needles are a foot thick on the ground. You have to go later in the year, the islands in Sylvania are off limits in Loon breeding season.
DAVE
There are some very old trees to be found along the shores of Basswood Lake, which was also one of the more developed lakes (in terms of human habitation). There are a number of humongous white pines around the site of the old Basswood Lodge, and an ancient cedar tree on the east end.
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
Well, after our trip to the Everglades we decided to take a side flight to the DC area to see my sis.
Now, I'm sure you have all heard about the major snow storm in DC, here we have at least 15 inches & more still coming down.
So, I'm stuck in DC and trying to find out if we'll get home in the next couple days.
So far, I've been on the phone on "hold" for at least 25 minutes but since I can't confirm how to make changes for a snow cancelled flight online, I have to keep holding.
Just frustrated & needed to vent!
Not to commercialize, but just to let you know I am one of those "outfitter types"
brightened up my day to see the pictures of people canoeing and some hillbilly looking broad holding up a big fish. If you had had a baby on your hip along with the fish I would have sworn it was a northern match maker service picture.
Hold tight, global warming will make the snow disappear real quick, or at least all the hot air from congress tonight scaring us about health care. If your flight is cancelled, show them southerners how to deal with the snow and cold and make your way over to the senate to watch the idiots.
Have a merry christmass, even if you are still stuck in DC.
And thanks for the great newsletter, not to commercialize or anything.
I wish we would get some snow here. All it ever does anymore is rain and freeze and then a slight dusting.
I'm still watching more snow come down & waiting for NW to email back to me about flights (they have 45 minutes to meet their 2 hour response promise).
My brother in law has a Jeep and has volunteered to help drive doctors & medical personnel around back & forth to hospitals etcetera around here. He called to say he's not sure how long he'll be needed. He said they had about 300 people volunteer to do the driving (people who had vehicles that could handle the snow).
Now if it was Ely, they'd all just jump on snowmobiles!
Not to commercialize, but just to let you know I am one of those "outfitter types"
they've already rebooked you on something else...you just don't know what time (or day) yet, or where you'll have to connect through.
Tough when that happens, sorry to hear!
. . . of Mr. WICT to write this, but it still might be possible to get the train between DC & CHI, then catch a connecting train between Chicago & Saint Paul. You would be on your own from Saint Paul to Ely, though. I've done this a few times when visiting friends in the DC area. The trouble is that the snow affects all forms of transportation. The train will be several hours behind schedule, but at least you won't be stuck in the airport, having to sleep on the airport floor.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." Mark Twain
People here want put in a high speed line from Minneapolis to Duluth. Now you wouldn't think that would be too hard since there once was a line that parallelled 35 north from the Cities, but now there want it to zig-zap from the western suburbs to Cambridge to Hinkley and then to Duluth. The price tag is unbelievable because it's all new right-of-way.
The existing track really should be upgraded. You can't run at top speed just because you have a track in place, you have to make sure that it is upgraded and meets certain engineering standards. Many miles of RR track throughout the US no longer meet standards that permit or allow speeds that are competitive with automobile travel. Then there is the issue of the size of the markets being served. To me, it would make more sense to upgrade the track all the way between Chicago, following the current amtrak route to Saint Paul, then to Duluth, because the trains would then serve a larger passenger market. The existing track always went via Sandstone and Hinkley. The issue is to upgrade the tracks to allow for speed in excess of 100 mph.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." Mark Twain
Question, I have used Prairie Portage several times years back. Now that passports are required, is there someone on the US side that looks at passports in order to reenter the US side? I sincerely hope this is unnecessary but knowing how uptight our government is today over borders I wonder. What are the current rules. I do know I need a Remote Border pass to enter Canada. Thanks in advance. JerryG
is to stop at the US Customs building (it use to be a trailer but think it's a building now)across the street from the Wolf Center. There were alot of horror stories of Barney Fife giving you the 3rd degree there that turned alot people off from stopping.
the guy is nice and yes, he swipes your passport thru a reader. Took the four of us a couple minutes, actually took more time to walk from the parking lot to the room where his computer is.
The rule about what you need to re-enter the US from Canada was supposed to be passport only a year or two ago, then politics took over and I guess there's delay or other means besides a passport, but frankly I pay little attention to it. I just went for the passport since it's the gold standard of ID. I figure since I'm leaving the US for a foreign country, I better bring a passport to get back in.
Just had a few minutes to put the finishing touches on a trip report from August of this year. My two oldest sons & I had 8 glorious days. They are both in college now, so the chances of such a trip occurring in the near future may be very limited.
It did not take me long to grab a map and follow along. After a few days, I'm saying to myself "now THIS is a canoe trip."
Three guys and one canoe is an efficient way to travel. Appears you had fun together.
Your observations of life or the lack of life along the route showed real attention to detail.
I really like small lakes and stream, too. But then we pop out onto a big lake and really see the grandeur of the BW. Big or small? A mixture often makes for the great route.
I felt for you after traveling for days farther and farther from your entry point and then running into the population explosion. Even with all the people (and the portage cookers), yours is an awesome route.
In case I forgot to mention it: I really liked your report.
paddledoc
"Walk too fast you leave your feet behind."
mention it, I think there is general agreement here that you don't have to worry about breaking any rules because of too many people on portages. There have been several threads on that subject (not always easy to find, of course) concluding that as long as your group is not over 9 / 4 canoes, your portage can seem like Grand Central Station and no one is breaking the law.
Hope your son is enjoying Eau Claire. When we were at school there we had fun fishing the Chippewa river - not quite the BW, but fun anyway. Thanks again for an enjoyable report!
I've only made a few posts, but I thought I should make one here.
I live not far from you in Watseka.
Thanks for your time in creating this visual display.
It offers up a great deal of inspiration.
hopefully will get my rear in gear and relate my summer travels...part of which was visiting Fall Lake.
I spent 7 1/2 years at Champaign/Urbana. Hope your son enjoys it as much as I did....Has a great deal to offer. Once a guy gets past the first couple weeks of homesickness one is too busy with classes and job. my wife and I graduated in 1975 and plan to visit it next summer for our Veterinary College reunion.
how were the roads getting into Sawbill....the time we visited there the roads were so washboard that I thought the Suburban would fall apart.... and then we would encounter these two logging trucks right behind each other. If you ever can get a copy of the story of Sawbill it is worth the read.
Alice Lake can be interesting in heavy winds...I thought all the nice campsites were on the east side not the west (?)...that is if you like sand.
I have long given up on bread and take bagels...buy the fresh ones and use them up the first few days and then use the ones with the preservatives for the rest of the trip. Also those soft taco shell things are good...one brand holds up really well( can't think of it)
Paddle the Eau Claire river some day... that is a nice place to go...very few people when we paddled it. Check out Mike Svobs books.
Thanks again for the post.
"Those who stop where reason and instinct command never reach the best and highest places of all" Bill Gilbert
The best sites on Alice are on the East side. I will correct my report on Monday.
The Sawbill Trail just depends on the year. I have also been there when I was afraid that I would washboard off the road. This year was OK. Two years ago we were there in early June and there were washouts in several places. There is always the coat of dust on the vehicle when you emerge from either end and I have had the pleasure of a flat tire the morning after arriving at Sawbill Lake.
We took the regular bread in order to do French toast the second morning. We also had Pita bread with us. That has worked well in the past, although we have had some problem with it molding on us in August trips.
Stuart & I have rented kayaks from the UW and paddled the Chippewa R. for about 1/2 mile up and down stream in front of the University. Not too much further though. We will have to do more before he graduates. Pete had a good semester and is looking forward to getting more into the engineering curriculum.
I am also an Alum of the U of I (1988 - M.S. in Music Education). If you have not been back in several years, you will like what they have done along Lincoln Ave. from Green to Oregon Sts.
Have not heard of author Mike Svob. (I have a colleague here by with the last name of Svob by the way.) Any particular titles I should be searching for?
Check out French Toast Flavored Bagels....heat em up put syrup and butter on them. Tastes great and no mess
Mike Svob has written Paddling Northern Wisconsin, Paddling Southern Wisconsin, and Paddling Illinois. Also has monthly articles in Silent Sports Magazine. (great magazine for Midwestern Folks). All these are great to have on the shelf.
The Uof I is always changing and moving along. I work in the Dairy Science Dept in the Animal Science Building for 7 years. The totally remodelled it with additions....I couldn't recognize the 3rd floor it had changed so much...but that is progress.
But they didn't change Noyes Lab and the Chemistry Annex Bld... I have many horrible memories of that place as a freshman in a lecture hall with 3-400 students.
bob
"Those who stop where reason and instinct command never reach the best and highest places of all" Bill Gilbert
I once calculated that KekeKabic Lake was the point in the BW farthest from any entry point. I made it a point to visit this most remote part of the BW and remember clearly hearing the conversations of nearby campers at night. I thought to myself that I might as well be sleeping in a cheap motel room. So much for solitude. I have also tried to visit Thunder point in the past but it was busy at the time and I would still like to try it again. Nice route, nice trip, thanks again.
Having worked at the Scout Canoe Base (Northern Tier) I could tell you that the border is almost always busy. Knife Lake, Frazier Lake, Thomas, Wisini, and Kek are all part of what is called the "Bear Loop," and all of the lakes are busy with folks coming in from Moose Lake to the west. Your boys will, no doubt, be interested in the future in doing a trip more along the lines of what other members have done. Something Like Lake Superior to Hudson's Bay (which can be done in segments, from season to season).
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." Mark Twain
The latest addition to ice fishing suits is Artic Armor just added this year. It looks really good but my Vexilar Ice Suit is awesome, except no floatation. If I were to buy now it would be Artic Armor which would be very good for lake fishing just before freeze up and at ice out.
but the guys took it out on a trial run. That's when they discovered they had a problem. It seams that one of the guys named Howard thought it was great fun to throw the fish at the guy in the suit, and they stuck, frozen like so many tounges to a pump handle. They had to wait an hour in the truck for the fish thaw out, he couldn't get the zipper down due to a 22" walleye plastered over it. The keys were in a pants pocket.
Just submitted my reservations for Canoeing & Wilderness Symposium on Northern Travels & Northern Perspectives come February in Toronto. I wonder if it would be asking too much to ask to attend Canoecopia.
"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands, but in seeing with new eyes." ~Marcel Proust, French Novelist
After all, a WHOLE month is between them, a MONTH! You need to be at Copia, there are probably speakers you can only hear there....besides, we would miss you at the dinner, Worth!
Is it wrong that I seem to have taught my youngest child that Santa pulls up in a solo canoe to drop off gifts at Christmas?
Then again, if the kid is going to believe that an overly friendly, jolly old fat stranger is going to break into his house to give him gifts in the middle of winter, I suppose it's comforting to know said fat man at least keeps fit by paddling around the world.
For all those here that use snowmobiles.......I'm looking to get a snowmobile suit to use for WINTER fishing at Dale Hollow.
I have a couple friends that use these instead of waterproof cover alls. They say the one piece snowmobile suits are just as waterproof, warmer, and give you more mobility.
Right now, I use my heavy rain gear and 2-4 layers of clothing, depending on how cold the highs are supposed to be. For most days, a couple layers are good enough for highs in the 40's, but lately, I've been fishing with highs in the 30's, and morning lows in the teens......I'd love to lose some of the bulk of the 4 layers of clothing.
So.......Anyone here care to add their two cents........
a MN resident and you don't see snowmobilers wearing bibs around here. We used to go to Lake of the Woods ice fishing and those who owned them, wore them.
Geo had better be thinking about mukluks, sleg dogs and such. It appears Climate Change is going to impact things a bit, and warming is the least of our worries!
Yep, first white Christmas in Copenhagen in 18 years! God is sending a message.
Bwahahahahahaha!
Pete now scurries for the corner, giggling fiendishly.......
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
AND I'm looking for something for winter fishing at dale hollow.
This weekend for instance............Water temps around 50, air temps from 20-45. I always use my life vest as the water is FREAKIN DEEP........but I really some less cumbersome gear.
A buddy of mine use the Ice Armor gear this weekend and MAN that stuff is DA BOMB.
He wore jeans, and a long sleeve shirt, boots, and the ICE Armor gear. It rained a wintery mix all weekend, and he stayed bone dry, and said gear was completely waterproof.
Ice Armor makes gear specialized for winter fishing and what I hear form people that own the full suits (bibs and Jackets) they are as good as it gets. I own a pair of their gloves and they warm, waterproof and very comfortable.
I only fish out of a shelter on the ice, usually with a heater, so I dont need or have a set.... but know plenty of people that do & swear by them. The bibs also have reinforced & padded knees in them & some jackets do the same with the elbow area. Great gear & very well made. The padding would be awesome when setting tip ups.
Troy
Cherokee Lake BWCA
"Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better"
Albert Einstein
Is there anything else you wish to share Canoearoo? Like maybe your family is debuting the Minnesota 6???
I heard that it is 24.5 feet long, with 2 ejectable and floatable baby seats, and comes with the Diaper Thwart Bag option. Rumor has it that it can be outfitted with a Rockin' Family attachment, which moves the canoe from side to side when the wind isn't kicking up enough.
Merry Christmas to you!
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
it is very water dependent. If there is not enough water you will hit rocks along the whole length of your trip. It is very beautiful along the upper stretches.....from Onaima to Millica.
I thought there wasn't any fishing for Bluefin in the US. Wrong? They may be the tastiest fish ever. Had a pound of raw bluefin off S. America with wasabi and a glass of chardonnay. Maybe the best meal I ever had.
The guy has to have some sort of sea anchor or something to create drag. The bluefins can really scream through the water. A couple of generations ago, they used to get up to 1200 pounds. He probably carries a good knife. A 1200 pounder could just take a kayak all the way to Davy Jones Locker.
My BFF, who was a charter boat captain on the big island (Hawaii) for 10 years or so, had this to say about that:
"Quite a feat! Bluefin on the east coast can get over 1000 lbs.(record is close to 1600) and the only reason guys can catch them w/rod and reel is because they fish for them in fairly shallow water (the bank off Bimini, off Prince Edward Island, and places that are on the banks off the east coast. If they were fishing off Hawaii where the water is deep- they'd be getting spooled, even relatively "small" fish like this one, would go so deep that even if you got it , it would take hours and hours!"
My friend, who goes to Quetico with me every Spring, also thinks that Spring (ie shallow) lake trout on light tackle (6# Trilene) is the closest thing to saltwater fishing that freshwater has to offer, excitement-wise.
... if the canoe camper in question likes photography. But, I'm not allowed to post it because it might be deemed to be too commercial. I'd send you an e-mail, if I had your address. Feel free to e-mail me ...
A Cooke Custom Sewing tarp. My personal new favorite is using the Lean3 as a low tarp and being able to sit without being eaten by mosquitos! Of course, even Dan's flat tarps are first rate.
A CCS thwart bag with map case. Love mine!
Fishing gear.
Water filter.
Solar shower. The one we used last year was actually made from a super lightweight dry bag with a shower nozzle. Took up almost no space or weight in the pack. I loved it!
I could go on but that's a start. I love gear!
Pam
BTW: No affiliation with CCS except that of a happy customer. Dan makes the best stuff!
I think a lot of people kind of overlook these and buy a cheapie to be legal. So how about a gift certificate to a paddle sport store for a nice pfd? He/she will want to try them on and be fitted, so a local store is prefered to mail order.
"All I Really Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten" -- Robert Fulghum
If he/she is a coffee drinker, how about a French Press. I'm getting my wife a couple of Ex Officio quick drying shirts that she admired last summer. If the individual fishes, I think a good rod holder is a nice idea. And what could make a person more happy than a set of Rapalas in holiday colors.
I bit self serving because one of the items is mine but there are a lot of good things for sale on the classifieds of BWCA.com. I'm not sure about giving used things for gifts but you get a good bang for your buck.
a good pair of cotton socks, a heavily rubberized rain coat, and a nice big sleeping bag, the kind with a cotton flannel lining with pictures of cowboys and indians on the inside.
economically-challenged times, it's wise to go with the less costly Bungee Laogai Bobs and forego the fancy glitz and colors of the corporate fat cats up in Minnesota.
"Have you seen Bungee Laogai Bob?" "Bungee Laogai Bobs! They're Cheap!!"
The other day I attended a presentation by the lead engineer for the water quality part of the Polymet Environmental Impact Statement. An interesting guy who really knew his stuff. He's been working on his part for about 6 years. His conclusion is that the run-off water will meet state standards for ground water and surface water, but it will degrade the area water. The water in northeast Minnesota far exceeds the state standards. It was not his job to to assess the impact on the fauna & flora of the impacted area so he had no comment on that.
Here is the link to that EIS, if you wish to comment you have 90 days from November 2, to submit your comment.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/input/environmentalreview/polymet/eis_toc.html
do you have an ceremony you do for an newbie to the group?
We have been doing an take-off of an Arrow of Light ceremony since 1998- even giving out names.
recommended by Dr Bob on this board.... thanks! This was an easy read and very funny. An unexpected ending! Canoeing on the Connecticut River and meeting with people along the way. Staying overnite with strangers and their experiences. Good book!
I have suggested "Mittens in the Boundary Waters" before. It's a teen book about a guy that spends a winter hunting and trapping in the BW area in the 1920's.
Another idea that I haven't read yet, but am going to this winter is "Sometimes a Great Notion". It's about a logging family in the Pacific Northwest. The author is Ken Kesey, who also wrote "One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest".
Our remnants of wilderness will yield bigger values to the nation's character and health than they will to its pocketbook, and to destroy them will be to admit that the latter are the only values that interest us.
Aldo Leopold
The story is compelling and gripping, and I think it would really interest a 15-year-old (unless you think he'd get so freaked out he'd never set foot in the woods).
A Wisconsin native Heimo Korth accomplished his dream. In 1975, the twenty year old Heimo Korth lit out for Alaska, built a fourteen by fourteen foot cabin, and married a native woman. The story is recounted by Korths cousin James Campbell in the book The Final Frontiersman: Heimo Korth and his Family Alone in Alaskas Arctic National Wildlife Refuge Wilderness. Korth lives with his wife and two daughters 130 miles above the Arctic Circle, the only settlers for more than 500 miles. I couldn't put this book down.
I oftenhave trouble holding interest through a whole book, which made these great choices because a good number of their books are compilations of short stories. I would recoomend "The collected works of Sigurd Olson: 1921-1934" or "Tales from Jackpine Bob"
"The movement of a canoe is like a reed in the wind. Silence is part of it, and the sounds of lapping water, bird songs, and wind in the trees. It is part of the medium through which it floats, the sky, the water, the shores. A man is part of his canoe and therefore part of all it knows."
- Sigurd Olson
His classics, Broken Blade and Wintering are must reads - probably for younger than 15 but if the young man isn't into reading big time yet, these are great easy reads about the fur trade era. William Durbin also has some other great books for young men, Backwoods Ben, The Darkest Evening, Song of Sambo Lake and others. Also, agree on the Hatchet too. Mittens in the Boundary Waters would also be a fun read for a young fellow. There are other "Mittens" books too, Mittens at Sea and something about the Tetons as well. This is by a MN author, Larry Allmen (sp?).
At around that age I thoroughly enjoyed the tales of Louis L'Amour, with a smattering of Zane Grey.
Certainly not canoe-related, but cowboys/frontiersmen and such are a timeless draw for young men. Funny thing, most of my paperbacks were "borrowed" from the Grandpas, and saved.
When Jr. wanted some reading a generation later, he read the same books - and I just had a knock-down with Mrs. Z who insisted that those old worn-out things needed to hit the recycling bin.
I won.
A couple of good L'Amour titles are Bendigo Shafter and Comstock Lode.
Zane Grey - take your pick. Riders of the Purple Sage, The Man of the Forest, The Deer Stalker and Knights of the Range aren't a bad start. Romanticized and overly flowery language, but the guy could write (and wielded a mean fishing rod as well).
Have fun with the shopping, and don't feel guilty if you decide to 'sample' the gifts (just to make sure they are appropriate) first.
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
Turned around a couple of hours ago, looked at the bookshelf, and picked up a tag-eared and well-worn copy of "To The Last Man" by Zane Grey.
Ellen and Jean - Shakespearean figures set in a bloody Arizona feud.
As I read/skimmed, dim memories of a college English professor, a serious disagreement about the relative worth of Dickens (I consider him a little further down the totem pole) vs. Grey (a master of his craft) and a final exam made me laugh and head upstairs for a cold beer.
The professor (a shrewd and elderly nun) called me in her office after Finals Week, and demanded that I offer an oral defense to my contention that Grey's writing was more inspiring and timeless than Dickens'. My grade was on the line.
I offered to her the simple proposition that the British Empire was dead - due in no small part to Dickens and the very institutions about which he railed, while Zane Grey's characters lived and prospered - and were embodied in American life, literature, and mythology to this very day. The rugged individual inpires, while the downtrodden waif makes us sad. I'd rather be inspired!
Putting the beer down, and heading off to bed........
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
in the English department. What I had done was to take a question asking about the social impact of Dickens' literature and answered the question with another question. Much in the nature of a politician, I didn't like the subject so I changed it.
The pressure was on after that, and the profs would dare me to try that with one of THEIR exams. The Chaucer final in my senior year was perhaps the pinnacle of my achievement. We were given separate exam booklets for each of the three themes we would write about. I decided to provide a unified answer to the three themes, using a single booklet.
As time wound down, the prof came over - I swear the guy was ready to cry - and told me if I needed some additional time he would grant it, at one letter grade per hour. He would tell me later that he thought I had cracked under the pressure. Just before time expired, I handed him my booklets, informed him that I had saved a tree by using only one instead of three, and walked out the door.
As I walked up to get my diploma, that prof handed me the booklet in an envelope, and a Certificate of Achievement the English Department had cooked up. Phrases such as "obfuscation creating consternation in the hallowed halls of Academe" were on that Certificate, as well as a Gift Certificate good for a large pile of steaming bull crap.
It was all good.
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
put together by George Reiger and published in 1972 is a collection of Greys best hunting and fishing stories. Maybe a bit dated for a 15 year old, I can understand a discussion of 1930s fishing tackle might bore some people. But it's one of my favorites.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn Pro,"
Hunter S. Thompson
I found this book when I was in high school. Not sure how to hold a 15 rs old's interest anymore, but his book absolutely captured my imagination. The story is real life and set in the wilds of B.C. The main character and author is a man named Eric Collier. He used to write a story now and then for "Outdoor Life", etc. He married an indian woman and went off in the brush to carve out a life centered around trapping.
Of course, in those days, hunting-fishing-trapping were what I lived for. But, when I traveled up to Bella Coola one year to fish steelhead, I went past a sign on the gravel road across the Chilcotin Plateau that pointed to Riske Creek, a near-by landmark to Meldrum Creek where the story took place. I got goose bumps as a 40 yr old.
Like I say, maybe not such a charge to a modern kid not used to running a trapline, but who knows?
"One Man's Wilderness, An Alaskan Odyssey" might be a good read for him. It's the story of Dick Proenneke and his making of a life on Lake Clark in Alaska. There are some videos too and PBS has aired the program several times that I know of. I just watched it again the other day.
It's a real charge to read about his activities and experiences.
and Jr. and I sat enthralled last year when it was freely available on the Web. Its a true classic story. The guy was amazing. I might have even let him paddle in the bow of my canoe!
I dunno if someone without the proper appreciation (having some context for what the guy is actually doing) can really get the drift of the thing.
Just my thoughts. FWIW.
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful, and hate the environs where crowds of people are found, which are invariably ugly; because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed with power, but respond only to quietude, humility and endless patience; because I suspect that men are going this way for the last time, and I for one don't want to waste the trip; because only in the woods can i find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of a tin cup always tastes better out there; because maybe someday I will catch a mermaid; and, finally, not because I regard fishing as being so terribly important, but because I suspect that so many of the other concerns of men are equally unimportant--and not nearly so much fun. robert traver aka john voelker
Outdoor humor at it's best. My favorites are "They Shoot Canoes Don't They?", "A Fine and Pleasant Misery" and The Grasshopper Trap. There are others and all good. Compilations of his many writings for Outdoor Mag.
I don't know if it's still in print but I remember loving "first to ride" about the first indian to attempt to ride a horse, also, I think "clan of the cave bear" would be a great book for a teenage boy.
in the Woods? I have noticed that of late, authors do not write the type of adventure books they wrote at the turn of the century (1900). No campfire girls adventures, or any of the other great books for boys--and girls-- who set off to explore the world.
Go to your local antique mall and explore the book sections. Most can be had for a dollar or two--even the new ones, but you can find many of the old writings. Great books. I have found more than a few on voyagers, camping up north, and canoeing themed. I have a small but growing collection of these.
Seems as though a dealer at Canoecopia has some old canoeing/camping books, but he charges alot more than what I pay in antique stores.
...the notoriety that he deserves...because he was too conservative:
"The man was a mass of fascinating contradictions," Jacobs says. "As noted London researcher Dr. Clarice Stasz points out, Jack Londons socialism was fervent, but countered by a strong drive toward individualism and capitalist success."
1. "White Indian Boy" (John Tanner's captivity) by Duane R. Lund.
2. "Where Rivers Run" Gary & Joanie McGuffin - a 6,000 mile paddle through Canada from St. Lawrence River to Arctic Ocean (MacKenzie River).
3. "Keeper of the Wild" by Joe Paddock - life of Ernest Oberholtzer, defender of the BW & Q, alongside Sig Olson.
4. "Bright Beat the Water - Memories of a Wilderness Artist" written and illustratedby John L. Peyton. The preface ends with the line... "And now let's look at one of those remote ages that rise out of the mists above the river."
"Rainy River Country," "The Voyageur," and "The Voyageur's Highway," all by Grace Lee Nute. There is also "Wau - Bun: The Early Day in the Northwest," by Juliette Kinzie. There is also "Down Historic Waterways: Six Hundred Miles Of Canoeing Upon Illinois And Wisconsin Rivers," by none other than Reuben Gold Thwaites (Former Secretary of the Wisconsin State Historic Society).
You may have to do a bit of hunting for some of these titles, but they are all written at a High School or Middle School reading level. In the case of Mrs. Kinzie and Mr. Gold Thwaites, the stories are their journal of their travels when they were young people. Mrs. Kinzie was later known as the grandmother of the founder of the Girl Scouts of the US, and she had a strong influence upon the GSA's founder. Mr. Gold Thwaites, in addition to being the Secretary of the SHS of Wisconsin, translated the Jesuit Relations. His Translation provided considerable insight on the French Period of the Fur Trade in the Great Lakes. Dr. Nute was a long time Professor of History at the University Of Minnesota.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." Mark Twain
. . .my favorite book was "Trails of a Wilderness Wanderer" by Andy Russell. I re-read parts of it recently and still find it has the same appeal it did back then. (Love the story about trapping the coyote!)
Would also highly recommend "One Man's Wilderness: An Alaskan Odyssey" by Richard Proenneke. (Wish I'd read this when I was 15; it might have changed my life!)
can't believe no one mentioned this first off for a 15 year old. I'm sure he'd identify with the two high school seniors and their epic journey from Minneapolis to Hudson Bay. Rich
Two sailing adventure books - the first is Joshua Slocum's classic, "Sailing Alone Around the World", and the other is "My Old Man and the Sea", a father-son book by David Hays and Daniel Hayes.
... funny, coincidental; not funny, ha-ha... it's a bum knee -- my wife's not mine -- that's causing all this upheaval in my life right now. She was originally going to have a replacement done yesterday. Orthopedic surgeon cancelled at last minute -- thought there might be risk of infection from something else my wife has going on. Since then, he's consulted with Mayo docs and has determined there's no risk so, the replacement is now scheduled for Dec 29. And, I'm back to being on a very short leash for all of January and at least part of February.
Hoping that this year there'll be no heat wave and rain to ruin the Ely snow sculptures.
I'll be taking pictures, but nowhere near the caliber of yours
Going to introduce my daughter and her fiance to the beauty of Ely in the winter!
Our remnants of wilderness will yield bigger values to the nation's character and health than they will to its pocketbook, and to destroy them will be to admit that the latter are the only values that interest us.
Aldo Leopold
Just book some appearances at the Iowa Paddlesports Expo in Indianola in February. This is one of my favorite shows. Let's plan a platty on Saturday evening. Anybody interested?
I like the show a lot. Whether I attend depends on the weather though. There will be a number of us from the Cedar Rapids area if the weather is reasonable. I'd love to have a platy with you on Saturday, and I'll let you know closer to the time what the odds are.
We should definitely make an effort to go back this year, especially since we'll miss out on canocopia. It's a good time to catch some canoeing talks, and Marty's cooking demos are always a highlight!
Coming from Carp lake and going east on the Knife River into Knife lake, I see two portages, a 185 rod on the Canadian side and a 84 rod on the American side; I am guessing that the 185 rod would be the one most reliable. Any insights would be helpful. Thanks.
The last longer portage is known as "Big Knife Portage", and is entirely on the Canuck side. Previously, the portage was notable for the sharp rock jutting up at several points along the trail - making for some hazardous footing and the very real chance of injury if you had to take a knee. However, it was awfully neat from a geologic standpoint.
Several years ago, someone went through with sledgehammers and knocked that rock down to rubble. Nicer footing, but I was sad to see it done.
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
We passed through there a few times and only knew of the portages on the US side. They were not hard. Once due to a heavy rain we decided to camp next to the small waterfall. We had a Quetico permit. It is an intresting set of portages and river section.
looked for the canadian portage on the first two - could never find it. The US portage's were easy. The first time through took a game trail, which I thought was the canadian portage and it just dead ended about 100 yeards in or so.
"The movement of a canoe is like a reed in the wind. Silence is part of it, and the sounds of lapping water, bird songs, and wind in the trees. It is part of the medium through which it floats, the sky, the water, the shores. A man is part of his canoe and therefore part of all it knows."
- Sigurd Olson
take the US side if you choose to portage, you can also pull your canoe through in the stream, you can pull through all the portages going to knife except birch to carp, and one other one I think the one from seed lake, but just paddle up the rapids as far as you can get there's a chute on the US side pull up there and you portage is about 3 rods. This all depends on water levels.
Sorry I haven't posted here in a while...been lurking for several years....got a new computer (years ago)and the settings didn't allow me to post....
Due to the recent announcements of Coast Guard enforcement in the BWCA, our group is looking into self towing with a 3 or 5 HP motor, mounted between two "catamaraned" canoes. We'll motor from our outfitter to American Point, about 7 miles, then stash the motor and gas can.
Anyone currently doing this? Any pics you can post? My question is, how far apart should the canoes be? And, if we have 3 or four canoes, can we pull these behind the catamaran?
Thanks All for any information you can provide....
For several years we lashed 2 canoes together (sorry no pics handy) and motored in. We found that to avoid a surge of water between the two catamaraned canoes we had to angle the bows in toward each other at a fairly sharp angle, like a skier snowplowing. The bows were probably a foot or two apart with the sterns at 4 feet or more. Not super efficient, but effective. Pretty stable, which is what you will want. We used a 3.5 hp motor which worked fine.
The most recent 2 canoe year, we skipped the lashing and just had the bow person of the 2nd canoe hold on the the side (rear) of the motorized canoe. That worked great where we had to do a lot of portaging (again, not BWCA), but I think the lashing method was better for long distances. Regardless of your setup, I'd get going super early to (hopefully) avoid the big waves.
Depending on where you mount the motor, you can have water washing or spraying into your canoe.
We used trial and error over the years for both the motor mounting system and the lashing system. The best advice I could give you is try out your rig before your trip!
When we're talking a 3 to 5 hp outboard you can clamp that on a rowboat or squarestern to be the "engine" of your train and tie your canoes on behind. You can pull a small rowboat on shore and stash your outboard underneath. This would be much less fooling around with lashing and aligning canoes. Straight forward and simple. That's what it's all about isn't it?
150 - 200 feet apart is my recommendation. That way, if one canoe sinks it will hit bottom before it drags the other canoe down! Most of my great learning experiences have started with the words "oh, ****". Conclusion on catamarans... don't do it.
I have no idea if stashing the motor and gas can is legal in BWCA, but it is not a practice I endorse.
I suppose you can make the argument you are using a small motor and it only gets used one-way, compared to an outfitter tow that must make a round trip for each leg and uses a much bigger motor. But people stashing motors and gas produces a negative gut reaction in me.
someone who loves the area and cares for it, being always careful with equipment, or a potential group with newbies not going to the BWCA at all? If the rates are tripled as some predict, an alternative tow method will be investigated, and if none is found, we'll choose another entry point go somewhere else....
This self tow idea only surfaced because outfitters may raise their tow rates beyond that which will be affordable for our group. We would ONLY do this as a last resort, and only in calm conditions as we've had our share of upsets on Sag....
We could always paddle out, but with newbies this would be a huge challenge and not one I would've wanted to do on my first trip.
My comment was not directed at your individual group but the practice as a whole. If a practice is OK for one group, it has to be OK'ed for all groups. I am interested in others opinions; my first reaction is a negative one.
If it is a practice that might be harmful to the BWCA experience, then an argument that it makes things cheaper or easier to bring in newbies is not likely to sway me.
any means necessary to get out in the backcountry. I'm not sure of the "rules" in the BWCA, but I assume if they stash the motor and gas in an area where motors are allowed then they will be OK with the authorities.
As far as I'm concerned it's OK.
solo canoes and single blades...the way it should be.
There is no legal prohibition to using a self-tow system. You simply go as far as you can with the motors, off-load the equipment (I recommend pulling well off to the side or even hiding the gear) and continuing the mission.
I do it all the time.
Of course, my tow boats have racks, and the rigs are painted camo so as not to unnecessarily intrude on the delicate sensibilities of others who may be offended by brightly colored motorboats. My "tow boats" are a couple of 14' fishing boats, outfitted with racks and capable of handling either a 9.9 or 15 hp motor.
We do get some funny looks portaging over Newton/Pipestone with a set of drop-down portage wheels and a kevlar canoe riding the racks..... It does work though....
As for permits, if you wish to motor both in and out, you need to get yourself an overnight motor permit. There is really no other way to do this legally. I have suggested to the Circus several times that they tweak the permit system so I could use a couple of day use permits and leave the overnight motor permits alone (they are like gold!), but my pleas have fallen on deaf ears.
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
"As for permits, if you wish to motor both in and out, you need to get yourself an overnight motor permit. There is really no other way to do this legally."
I have canoe racks on my bigger boats and have self towed a number of times from Crane Lake to Loon, both for portage/trail clearing and for regular canoe trips. The forest service has stated that I only need a paddle permit for this. I grab a motor site on Loon, set up a tent and set out in my canoe for overnight trips, leaving a tent and boat at the motor site. I do leave a copy of my permit taped to the steering wheel of the boat.
"Do other overnight motor users on Loon need a overnight motor permit? If so, why don't you?"
Yes, they do need an overnight motor permit
I asked them more than once if this is the correct/legal way and they said yes. I simply go in on a overnight canoe permit.
"And to take up 2 sites with one permit, that also doesn't sound right."
I agree, but I felt that my boat and gear was safer at a site than 'hidden' in a bay somewhere.
"In terms of a paddle group that split, don't they when need 2 permits, one for each half of the group?"
As far as I know, yes. I'm not sure if a ranger would overlook this if both groups were camped close to each other and split for the sake of say, more tent pads, latrine usage etc.
"Is the FS cutting you some slack because you are working on the trails?"
Very unlikely. My experience is that they stick to the rules no matter who it is including their own people. Some exceptions apply i.e. stashing of gear, tools etc.
I have also entered on a day permit, by motor, with a canoe on top, to Loon. I parked near a site close to the LIS drainage and paddled into Devils Cascade, as a day trip. This was ok with them as well.
I must admit to being totally mystified by your overnight trip procedure. Guaranteed this is a ticket if caught in most areas. I'm not familiar with the Loon permitting system, so there may be a loophole there.
Day trips are simply a motor permit. For instance, when I pick up my motor permit I'll have 2/3 people, 2 craft (one canoe, one motorboat). Simple enough. In and out - same day - one permit covers the deal.
HOWEVER if you use the motor on two separate days, you need either an overnight motor, multiple day trip motor permits (one for in - one for out) or a Day Trip Use to Canada arrangement - both of which are quota permits and somewhat hard to come by on many weekends.
If you have received the benediction and blessing of the local authorities for your purposes, please keep doing it and don't start asking too many questions!!!! There's an old saying about letting sleeping dogs lie..... Where I am running, you would have a serious risk factor.
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
Given the fact that LV, Loon or LLC have no horse power limit, they have the rail portages (motorized), there is the motorized, winter trail (East Bay, Crane Lake) all of which were granted for summer and winter passage of residents of the native village on LLC because there was no road to the village at that time, might, as you say, make some difference in other rulings as well. But then, I am just guessing here. I'm also guessing that there is not much law enforcement regarding camp site usage on that edge, for the same reason.
For years, the quota for entry permits for LV, Loon or LLC was listed as 99. I questioned them about this once and they said "Well no, it's not really 99", and there was no further explaination. Hmmm, no more questions.
At times, you will also find a motor boat in the wet boat house, at the ranger cabin near Bottle Portage. I don't blame them at all for this. There could be any of a number of emergencies where they might have to use that boat for others safety.
...At the desk of the La Croix District office in Cook, I asked the question in as many different ways as is possible...Can I as a solo tripper occupy two campsites? The answer was always, "no."
I even asked whether I could occupy two campsites if I bought two permits for just myself...The answer was again, "no."
The LaCroix office is exactly where they told me that I could motor to Loon and paddle in from there. Hmmm. I really hope that they weren't making an exception. I'll likely be doing it again next season and asking the same q's. We'll see what happens.
Also, I know that I COULD NOT get a paddle permit(s) to occupy more than one paddle site or a motor permit(s) to occupy more than one motor site. Apparently, your paddle permit does work to occupy one of each. I'll probably find out down the line that the person that gave the go-ahead was wrong to do so. We'll see next time.
......but then, I was asking about a canoe only trip that I wanted to basecamp...and do over-night excursions...from.
I suspect that you're right...that the next time that you ask the question...that you'll get a different answer.
So...As Pete Z. says..."If you have received the benediction and blessing of the local authorities for your purposes, please keep doing it and don't start asking too many questions!!!! There's an old saying about letting sleeping dogs lie...."
...And, by the way, how did you ask that question again?
Wouldn't you have to get a Day Use Motor permit? Aren't these a scarce commodity? You can't use the unlimited availability of a day use paddle permit if you use a motor.
My only other comment is to build and test it extensively before you do this for-realsies. Canoes loaded with gear for a trip with the added lumber, fuel, and motor wouldn't have jack for freeboard compared to a tow boat, so any waves would significantly raise the probability of a "bobber" event. Again, testing under expected conditions (and duration) would be my strong recommendation.
My group did this in Ontario this summer. We did not stash the motors, however, since we could motor on all the lakes legally (we were heading to a remote camp). This saved us hundreds in float plane fares. Two of the canoes were identical 17' Grummans linked by two joints of 1 1/2" PCV plastic attached to the thwarts with duct tape. The full 10' lengths were used and worked well...the spacing was just about right. My canoe had its own rig and it worked GREAT!! Simple to make, quick to rig, and it folded nicely. There were NO holes drilled in the canoe to accomplish this. A picture is attached.
I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful, and hate the environs where crowds of people are found, which are invariably ugly; because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed with power, but respond only to quietude, humility and endless patience; because I suspect that men are going this way for the last time, and I for one don't want to waste the trip; because only in the woods can i find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of a tin cup always tastes better out there; because maybe someday I will catch a mermaid; and, finally, not because I regard fishing as being so terribly important, but because I suspect that so many of the other concerns of men are equally unimportant--and not nearly so much fun. robert traver aka john voelker
but I think it would be feasible for downwind runs. With a 2.3 HP motor, we were topping 7 mph unloaded, about 5.5 with a heavy load. A motor isn't necessary, though, as it paddled pretty well also. If interested, I have more detailed photos of the fittings, all of which were homemade and costing less than $25. I can't answer the question about legality in the BWCA.
but I think it would be feasible for downwind runs. With a 2.3 HP motor, we were topping 7 mph unloaded, about 5.5 with a heavy load. A motor isn't necessary, though, as it paddled pretty well also. If interested, I have more detailed photos of the fittings, all of which were homemade and costing less than $25. I can't answer the question about legality in the BWCA.
Motor-powered watercraft are permitted only on the following designated lakes. All other lakes or portions of lakes within the BWCAW are paddle only. Motors may not be used or be in possession on any paddle-only lake. No other motorized or mechanized equipment (including pontoon boats, sailboats, sailboards) is allowed.
This is directly from the current plan in place for BWCAW.
Watercraft or sailboards designed for propulsion by
wind are not permissible. Watercraft with types of
rowing devices that were in regular use m the
BWCAW, prior to the 1979 BWCAW Act, are
permitted.
"It's not denial. I'm just selective about the reality I accept."
Calvin and Hobbes
I just emailed Katadyn but thought I'd just run this by ya. The plastic piece on the bottom where the hose clips into popped out of the main housing. It appears intact and looks like it was just glued in. Do I dare try to just superglue it back in or how are these pcs. secured? I imagine they must be not only glued securely but can't have an air leak or the unit would not work well.
Used once
That thingy popped out, I told them about it, and they sent me a new housing. I guess that I would have preferred that it didn't happen at all, but the customer service was excellent when it did.
"All I Really Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten" -- Robert Fulghum
Which of the following watering holes do you stop at going up or out of the BWCA
Culvers @ Two Harbors, Moguls Grille, Bluefin Grille, Old Country Buffet
our tradition dictates the first thing we do when getting out of the woods is we pound down cold Special Exports, preferentially in the parking lot of the motel.
In GM it's the only liquor store in town.
In Ely, I think it's called Mikes.
We really don't have a drinking tradition going in except having a last beer before we get in the tow boat.
the tee was my first and only foray into tie-dye. I used printing inks that I diluted so they weren't as brilliant as dyes made for that task. It was more of a proof of concept in making the X. In that I regard it a success.
There are no fashion rules for us, except for the prohibition on blue jeans. It's all about the beer.
I'll have to talk to Stumpy about increasing the duration and intensity of your daily beatings. I do believe you are becoming insolent.
we sometimes stop at the poodle inn on 53. on the way out, our outfitter has traditionally brought the beer to us for the tow out. now that's refreshing!
I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful, and hate the environs where crowds of people are found, which are invariably ugly; because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed with power, but respond only to quietude, humility and endless patience; because I suspect that men are going this way for the last time, and I for one don't want to waste the trip; because only in the woods can i find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of a tin cup always tastes better out there; because maybe someday I will catch a mermaid; and, finally, not because I regard fishing as being so terribly important, but because I suspect that so many of the other concerns of men are equally unimportant--and not nearly so much fun. robert traver aka john voelker
...hamburger...they instantly interrupt me...and ask if I want that with "everything."
I like raw onion...not the fried onion they put on the "everything" burger. Soooo...twice, on my to go orders, I've found after a few miles down the road that I have a hamburger with both raw...and fried...onions.
I've concluded that they like to talk more than they like to listen...even if they do have great burgers.
We always go up the Gunflint, and absolute first stop (after a shower) is Trail Center. A couple of Leinies, a disgusting cheesburger, mound of fries, a milkshake, and pie; Wow! It doesn't get much better than that!
Now days, I always leave a cooler of ice and refreshment in the car for when we get out. Even though the ice will be long melted, the refreshment is still welcome.
We do have several traditional 'must stop' places on our two day drive up and back.
Day one, we leave home at 5:00 am which puts us in Clarksville, TN right after the Cracker Barrel opens for breakfast
Day one lunch - not by plan but we always seem to end up at the same Steak'n'Shake at some town (I can't remember the name) in central IL.
Day one dinner and day two breakfast - we haven't settled on this one yet, somewhere in Madison
Day two lunch, absolutely must be the Breakwater in Superior
Day two dinner, has depended on the outfitter. Most of our trips have outfitted with someone on Moose Lake, so eat in their dining room. When in Ely, .. Sir G. ...
Entry Day breakfast - either with the outfitter or Cranberries or Vertins'
Exit day. Moose lake outfitters have met us with a beer. Lunch at the DQ, (Ely) hot showers (Grand Ely Lodge), and Dinner at the Ely Steak House
Departure day, breakfast at Cranberries or Vertin's.
From there the rest of the trip is a fog as we leave reality and go back to earning a living.
If dogs don't go to heaven, then when I die I want to go where they are. -- Will Rogers
I think the fishing opener is May 15 in MN. This is what I am finding on the net but am questioning it for sure because it is usually the weekend of Mother's Day. We want a permit for this day and I'd like to pick it up in Two Harbors or up Hwy 2, hopefully bypassing Ely. Nothing wrong with Ely, just want as much time "in" as we can get out of the 3 days we are there.
1.) is the opener May 15th?
2.) where can I pick up my permit going up Hwy. 2?
If you mean hwy 2 north out of Two Harbors, then the Isabella Ranger Station in Isabella might be your best bet, especially if you plan to head east at all. It's a nice little station, but you will want to check its hours to be sure it's open when you pass through.
If you mean county road 2 out of Tofte (Sawbill Trail), then the Tofte Ranger Station would be a logical choice.
Found the The Canoeist (thecanoeist.com) is a new store in Two Harbors and can have the permit for us! They need a place like this there. Hope they do well. Al's Bait is no longer. I kinda thought so when I passsed thru this June and drove back into the alleys to a new location. It just is not Als', no cpmparison.....sorry.
So we will get the permit there and drive right to our entry point on May 14th, paddle in around 2 PM and set up camp right by all the walleys. Can ya tell I'm excitred?
WooHoo!
Out of business. There is a bait shop off the main drag but it's nothing like Al's. The only place to pick a permit in town is The Canoe Store thecanoeist.com.
I got burned on a permit quite a few years back thinking it was tied to Mother's Day. Actually the resorters, outfitters, bait shops, and others who's "Black Friday" is tied in to fishing, wanted the opener to be 2 weekends before Memorial Day weekend. (Does anybody know if this is at all tied to when the fish bite?!) It has nothing to do with Mother's Day. It is just a coincidence most years. If you think about it, unless you take yo' momma out on fishin' opener in 40 degree weather, wind, and rain, she would prefer you stayed home 'n' took her out to dinner! It is May 15 this year 'n' yo' bes' throw back them smallies until the 29th 'r da C.O. will want to see some ID so's he kin write you a note home to yo' momma!
It does pay to read those regulations before going out, doesn't it?
I came out of the woods and found this card on my windshield:
I would bet that if there were government grants available to prove its existence that there would soon be a scientific consensus proving that it is real.
...the subject of my "North American Environmental Sciences" doctoral dissertation. How ironic that it should come up on this board! And it was a lucrative gig while it lasted.
(You probably don't know my educational background, Stumpy...I purposefully omitted all of it on my "Lackey Application" for fear that you might think me to be overeducated...and therefore...underqualified
My name is Troy Davis and I am a graduate student at Lakehead University researching how public participation in the planning and management of Ontarios Provincial Parks has changed over the past 100 years. My hope is that by tracing the history and determining the amount of public participation in the planning and management occurring in Quetico Provincial Park, I will be able provide Ontario Parks staff with information that increases the management success of parks in Ontario including the protected areas being developed under the Far North Planning Initiative.
To date it has been easy to identify and interview people from organizations that have participated during one or many of the Quetico Provincial Park management planning processes that have occurred. However, I am having difficulty finding someone who has done so as an individual.
For my thesis to be as strong as possible I need to interview at least one person who has participated by writing letters/emails and/or attended public meetings or open houses in a Quetico management plan processes.
To help me will involve an approximately 1 ˝ hour interview either in person or by telephone. If you would be willing to help me, know someone who would, or have any questions please contact me by email (tdavis@lakeheadu.ca) or phone (807-343-8876).
Please note that your participation is completely voluntary and you are free to refrain from answering any questions or to withdraw from the interview at any time. All questionnaires will be kept confidential and all data will be analyzed in a manner that assures your anonymity.
Best regards,
Troy Davis
Researcher
Troy Davis
MES in Nature Based Recreation and Tourism Candidate
School of Outdoor Recreation, Parks and Tourism
Email: tdavis@lakeheadu.ca
Phone: 807-343-8876
Fax: (807) 346-7836
Supervisor
Mark Robson
Assistant Professor
School of Outdoor Recreation, Parks and Tourism
Email: mark.robson@lakeheadu.ca
Phone: (807) 343-8057
Fax: (807) 346-7836
Lakehead University Office of Research
Phone: (807) 776-7289
Fax (807) 346-7749
Take a tow to Birch lake and it's quite fine.
If you paddle all the way, it's not bad either, especially after you start the portages toward Knife.
A lot of the traffic heads toward Ensign.
I think the Lake One route is worse...with those two log-jam portages.
Not nearly as bad as Lake One. More water to spread out in. Nice parking lot and access to start. After Carp Lake, you're on your own. We used the site on the south point of the island in South Arm for a week of base camping.
Moose is part non-BW and 25 hp max on the BW part. The outfitters run their tows up to Ensign, Birch, and Prairie Portage. Anglers headed for the motorized part of Basswood also run up Moose.
Paddlers to the Q don't need an overnight BW permit, so you will see many more than the 16 parties (or whatever the daily quota is for Moose Lake Entry Point). The 5 rod portage into Birch sometimes has more than 1 party on it, but there is plenty of room for landing canoes on both sides, so it's not like Lake One.
We have both paddled and taken tows up Moose, and will probably do more. We just understand that the wilderness does not really start until we get beyond the range of motor noise coming from Moose.
Knife is a great destination with a number of loops and day trips possible. Enjoy it.
According to Robert Beymer's guide, is allotted some 28 groups entry per day during the season between Memorial and Labor Days. There are good reasons that the chain of lakes between Moose and Ensign Lakes is called the "Grand Central Station" of the BWCA. You should expect a lot of traffic.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." Mark Twain
We've never had a problem. Will you likely see a few boats? Sure.
We have used this EP many times and never had a problem. This is only
meant to be a personal observation , but I really feel like I'm in the "wilderness" area until I get done with all the rigamarole at the park entry station area anyway. Knife and the Man Chain more than worth it.
Splash a little water on the rainbow rock for me.....
Perhaps, in this case, the observations will match the predictions. Thanks for the input.
At 6 below and falling (-15 currently in Ely) this morning, I am hoping for a little warming before my next trip. Perhaps the natural (uncontrollable by us) cycle will help out.
5 rod portage to Birch. It wasn't bad. If you are considering the South Arm, you may want to take a look at the Sea Gull entry point too. It was a great trip. We went on opening weekend. Caught walleyes, smallies, northern and lakers. Stayed on the campsite at the very end - near the portage to Toe.
And eventually, us people in the Northern Tier will rule! Florida and the East Coast will be under water. So will California (but the Californians might not notice). Property values will increase as the other states become uninhabitable. BUY LAND NOW. I am, because stuff is almost free in Detroit. I'm mostly excited that the Big Ten teams will be able to recruit the top athletes, and once again be the dominant force in college athletics. It's going to be sweet! Bring on the CO2 all you doubters. THE NORTH SHALL RISE AGAIN.
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