This forum was established to inform and facilitate discussion about the Boundary Waters
Canoe Area in northeastern Minnesota and the Quetico Park in Ontario, Canada. This forum
was established on October 26th, 1998.
Well yes it is still five months away, but how else do you expect me to get through all these months of work and other drudgery without occupying my time planning my annual Sept trip !!
I really want to get up to the Lower Basswood Falls / Pictos / Table Rock area, but I do not want to burn the first day of a 4 day trip hauling canoes up the sure to be low water level Horse River from Horse Lake. The outfitter we normally use has suggested towing us through Fall Lake up into Pipestone and finally Jackfish and then paddling in through the Basswood River to the Falls area.
As I am figuring it (keep in mind, I've never been to this part of the BW) this will allow us ample time during our albeit short 4 day stay to explore up the river as far as Table Rock or beyond. We would then either paddle back through Horse River and ultimately to Mudro (hauling canoes out through the low water Horse River doesn't seem so bad on the way out) or if the water levels are super low we would arrange for a tow out as well.
Any thoughts??? How are the portages up the Basswood River in the fall?? Camp sites??? Cool sites not to be missed such as Pictos, Table Rock, etc.??? Day trip options (we typically basecamp becase of the short duration of the trips)....Anything else???
The paddle from Lower Basswood falls to Table Rock is an exceptionally pretty one that I never tire of. The pictos IMO are some of the best. The portage around the falls is pretty easy and is the only one between Table Rock and Horse R.
We plan on doing that paddle in Sept as well, (probably Sept 13) tho I'm not sure about how low Horse R gets, I think it is still doable.
In '98 it took me 6 hours to go from Baswood Falls end - mouth of the river, to Horse Lake. I walked most of the way. '99 if you paddled in the center, you only had to get out every few yards and drag, which was much better than the previous year. 'o1 it was paddle all the way.
A word of caution, if you are coming up Horse to the Falls, the very last portage on the river is easy to miss and not forgiving, as it is right on the rapids. Voice of experience....
Good luck on a great trip. You won't regret it!
xx
k
...been there in the Summer, but I would guarantee that in September the area will be absolutely stunning.
If you only have four days, take the tow as you will still have some work ahead of you on that first day...approximately 3 miles of paddling before the mile portage, and then an additional 2.5 to 3 miles of paddling (some easy portages) to Lower Basswood Falls.
**When you pass the mouth of the Horse River, paddle into the cove dead West...ther is an amazing campsite up on top of a bluff that offers a great tent pad, amazing views and even the soothing sounds of the Falls to lull you to sleep.
Pictos are about a mile north on the left side of the Basswood River. And spend some time fishing or just taking in the view around Wheelbarrow Falls.
The paddle down the Horse River is long and if the water level is low, will present many portages...consider setting up camp on Horse Lake for your last night to give you an easy out.
Hope this helps. (Darnit, now I really want to go!!! )
Madl
"He who travels with dry foot, not experience all that canoe country has to offer."
We put in at Fall Lake, paddled up to Basswood across the bay from the upper falls the first day. From the next day it was to just below the lower falls, third night was Friday Bay of Crooked lake, 4th night had us down to Boot, and out Mudro the 5th day. Out trip was 5 days, but with the tow, you are talking about cutting out one of our days and getting to where we were the second night. It's a beautiful route. There is also a mile long portage from Wagosh to Gun heading down to Boot. I loved the combination of large lakes and rivers contasted with the small lakes and creeks when you head toward Boot and Mudro. the pictos are great, and, of course, the waterfalls. Our group included 3 couples who ages ranged from 47 to 59, all in reasonable shape and included 3 newbies. this is not a base camp route, you are moving each day. Both of the mile long portages are open, the basswood one is fairly flat and downhill, the Wagosh one has a little rise/fall at each end but not steep. We double portaged all our portages. If you are willing to do the work, this is a great route because it has everything other than The east end of BW has more spectacular hills.
Is it just as it says, a mile long portage??? If so how difficult?? I've gotta couple of older guys with me that are not exactly in "fight'in trim shape" if ya know what I mean.
upper basswood falls on down the river is about 1 mile. Pretty flat except at both ends, a few places might be hard to follow. We noticed that at least two guys, in a woodstrip, portaged around upper basswood and then paddled down the river. This may be possible for experienced people in good water conditions. I do not know--most of it looked easy enough to paddle, but some was out of sight and may contain dangers. I figured the portage was there for a good reason, it was well used--and apparantly had been used since the days of the voyaguers--and both Nibi and Sojourner took to the portage--so who was I to question?
There are several other portages around falls on the Basswood river along that route. Take your time and they should be no problem. Watch out for low water on the Horse river and high winds on Horse Lake.
...a long walk with some extra weight (canoe, packs, etc.). It is an easy portage - aside from length, but if you take the tow up through Jackfisk Bay, you'll have plenty of time to enjoy the portage...don't rush.
We did a "leapfrog" style portage across it and took time to enjoy it (as much as we could in the rain ) but we saw some Whitetail Deer in a field just to the south of the trail and just had fun with it.
You and your group will be fine!
Madl
"He who travels with dry foot, not experience all that canoe country has to offer."
Got to the start of the portage, carried the first load probably 2/3 of the way, went back and enjoyed a rest at the upper falls, took a few photos,I caught a smallie right below the falls, and headed back down with the next load. It's nice trail.
though this one can be beaten, stomped on, drug through the mud, rained on, stuffed in the bottom of your pack and still be a favorite.
My new Filson (Olive Green) Cover Cloth Crushable Packer Hat: http://filson.com/1415.HTM
came today and I can tell that it will be perfect for my needs. Cover Cloth is their lighter fabric and that's what makes it crushable. I ordered mine with a chin strap/cord for those windy days on the water. This is not a warm weather hat but will be great for my spring or fall trips when cold rain can always be a factor.
I am not associated with Filson in any way. I just know that they make top of the line (and a bit pricey) waxed cotton canvas clothing that stands the test of time. Now if I just don't lose it...
I have the oil cloth and love it. Best rain hat I have ever had. Can rain all day and my hair stays dry. And no annoying hood restricting all periphial (sp?) vision. Love it.
"Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the U.S. Ask any Indian"
I've used Filson products throughout my years in the woods. Wore out a cruiser's vest and red plaid wool mackinaw. Hated to see both go...lots of miles and memories. I'll probably never wear out the replacement vest since I don't use it for work now. Haven't replaced the mackinaw...gave up elk hunting and have other wool.
Mostly these days I use my tin pants and wool long underwear. Good for outdoors work/play in colder/wetter weather.
No Filson affilitation here other than a customer very satisfied with product and service.
...Randy
P.S. If you're ever in the Safeco Field area of Seattle (where the Mariners play baseball), you're close to Filson's home store. It's a neat place to visit...you and your checkbook/visa card.
I posted these last Sunday but, I'm not sure if everyone saw them since they were very quickly pushed to page 2 by the 'copia posts...
David (who was with ExitB and I on last year's January and February trips) and I entered Snowbank Lake on February 18 and met up with PFP who'd entered a day earlier. PFP had to leave on the 19th and David decided to stay around camp since he was having problems with his snowshoes and didn't want to ski. So, I went on a solo ski trip over to Ahsub, Jitterbug, and Adventure Lakes on a gorgeous winter day. The 20th wasn't so gorgeous so, I stayed around camp. We exited via Snowbank again on the 21st.
February 18, 2005. David and I make our way from the Snowbank Lake Entry Point to the campsite on Disappointment Lake.
February 19, 2005. Steve heads home and I go for a solo day trip to Adventure Lake.
I started to look at these a few days ago but you're right, there was too much else to read and look at and they got lost in the time crunch - much better to savor them...
I only had time for the first two days this weekend, so I was glad to see the rest. On you third day you wrote, "It wasn't exactly a good day for landscape shots though." I disagree, I like the views with monochrome sky and snow-covered lake. Thanks for capturing that!, as well as some intimate "Brandenburgesque" scenes.
I'm in the used market deciding between a 17' Grumman Standard and an 18.5' Alumacraft. What are your feelings between the two? Is the Grumman really more rugged? Is the extra glide of the 18.5 flat bottom A-craft significant enough to be worth a higher price? I like the idea of the extra room, but I'm used to the Grumman. Do Grummans really have more/better rivets? Are A-craft rivetted or spotwelded? Should I hold our for a quality, lightweight, composite 18+ footer? Thanks in advance for your help.
the lightweight 18' Grumman, for sheer cargo capacity and nice ride. In my opinion, the 18 paddles as well as any aluminum out there, and considerably better than most. I have a couple of Grummans (17 and 15) and the 18.5 Alumacraft. All have seen some tough and even brutal conditions, and I have no complaints on durability for any of them. My buddy's light 18 Grumman has been through the wars, and I prefer it to the Alumacraft for glide and stability, especially when we are loaded heavy in late and early seasons.
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
either one will last a lifetime.My Alumacraft is riveted everywhere,but the seats are spot-welded.The only problem I've had with my Aluma. is the middle rib kept cracking from hauling it in the back of a pick-up,more hung out than what was in the bed.But we solved that by putting 2 8'-2x4's under the canoe to help support it. Have never paddled a Grumman but I know my 17'Alumacraft paddles like a barge up north but will take any abuse you give it down here on our shallow rivers.My 17' Alumacraft weights in right at 80 lbs.Took it twice to the B-Dub then got a SR17 for up north.That Alum. had zero glide on a lake,if you quit paddling it quit moving.
I had the pleasure of paddling this canoe solo for a half day on the Kickapoo river. It took everything I could dish out and then some! Glad I didn't have to carry it too far during the course of the day. Mostly just blew through light sweepers and over downed trees.
Glad to see someone speaking up for Aluminum canoes. I have three Grumann canoes (17,15 and 19 square stern) and recommend and like all three. You can leave them out all year and the sun will not damage them. Don't let their slower speed bother you. Are you racing when on a canoe trip? As I got older we started using a kevlar Wenonah for trips that have many portages but use the aluminum canoes on local river camping trips. I let the Boy Scout Troop borrow them and you would never do that with a kevlar canoe.
grummans...the other makes seem flatter bottomed and even heavier.all are very durable.everyone needs to portage them (standardweight) at least once on a mile carry to appreciate your kevlar boat...lm
I have owned my Grumman 17 for way more years than I care to remember but day in and day out it is my favorite. At the end of a tough portage I am not real particular where I sit my boat down and with the grumman it is never a problem plus I don't get all white knuckled when it gets hung up on a stump or rock. But.... I am buying a Bell Northwind this spring just because I am too old to haul the Grumman over a mile any longer. My partner owns a Alumacraft but it does not seem to take the rough waves as well.
I long for the day when I will actually own one. Paddle like a dream. You gotta trust the durability of a canoe from a company that makes airplanes....
"Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the U.S. Ask any Indian"
I would love to find a good deal on a 15 foot grumman lightweight. While on the portage crew we would load up those 17 footers with 3 people gear, wheelbarrows etc with no problems. After seeing what we packed in the 17 footers I don't think I would ever need anything more than a 15 footer. The only aluminum canoe I currently have is a 15 foot smokercraft which is incredibly tough and stable, although a bit beat up. Go for the grummans , I never liked the bows on the alumnicrafts anyway.
that is what my father and I made our first trips into the roadless area with. I also would be proud to own any. alum. Gruman, I just have not had any need to replace my origional purchase of an alumacraft. I've also paddled many a mile with gear unlikely used by many recreational canoer., in a Gruman....always did the job, and then had more left to give. eather brand is fine by me. Matter fact, got several assorted size alumacraft boats........sooooo much fun, so little time!
it was my first canoe. I bought it used in 1970. From the BW to the glades,and in between..yellowstone lakes and some of the flatwaters of Idaho...yep, we've done some swell trips together....bet she'll miss me when I'mm gone. But I know my children will continue years of enjoyment traveling with it.. after all they grew up paddeling an aluminum!
when man is part of his aluminum canoe, he is part of all beer cans have ever known !
My family purchase a 17' Alumacraft sometime in the early 60s. That's the canoe I grew up with. Camping, fishing, swim raft, lakes, rivers - it did it all. My brother owns it now. Can't say anything bad about it. I have nothing but good memories.
We've had a 17' Std Grumman for many years. When i got it I closely compared Grumman and Alumicraft, the only 2 manufacturers I considered. We've used it on many BW trips and have been able to compare it to
Alumicraft and other canoes.
The G has more rivets, about twice, then the A, the G also seems to have more "curved" surfaces, ie, easier on the hands. The G has more rocker then the A, which is almost straight keeled.
The G seems to be a more general purpose design, if you are planning to canoe streams/rivers, the G is a better choice. On the other hand, the A goes through the water easier and is "better" (faster) on lakes.
On our trips, the G usually were following the A's, at least at the end of trips when everybody got into a paddling rhythm.
As for the G being a good paddling design, in my experience, when we were in the G, we were always following and trying to catch up. That's a lot of why I wanted to build a stripper canoe, to get something that goes through the water easier.
The G std is/seems to be heavier then the A std, though either will out live you if you are even a little careful.
A couple of years ago I picked up a very old, and heavily used Grumand at an estate sale for general use at my parents cabin. That old lady has seen everything, and we use it to go down a low water level river that dumps into our lake. We beat the crap out of that thing every year, and it still doesn't leak. However, I don't appreciate the noise, or the extra weight in the BW. My Old Town "Camper" is hands down my favorite up there.
we've been using grummans for over 40 years in the boy scout troop i'm associated with. we have some that were bought in the early sixties that are still going strong. although the older grummans are pretty beat up (the scouts can be pretty hard on them,we use the older ones for a float on the clarion river at our summer camp. the water is usually low.) the ones we bought in the 70"s are still in very good shape. we use these for our canada trips. i had the chance to buy a 17" grumman a few years ago for $350 and jumped at the chance. it was a rental boat but in new condition. i knew an oppertunity like that wouldn't come along again. they may be tanks but they will take a beating.
Dear Friends and Family of Hudson Bay Expedition 2005-
We are down to 44 days (as of Friday)! With each passing day our excitement grows more. We’ve started to feature our journals on our website, and our launch party is set for Saturday, May 7th at Fort Snelling State Park (more details on that soon; our next edition of Expedition Updates will be out soon).
We are launching our official expedition e-journal, Hudson Bay Bound. For a subscription cost of a minimum donation of $25, you can receive Hudson Bay Bound in your inbox approximately every other day while we are on our trip, and approximately once a week until then and for a few weeks after the trip is over. Each edition of Hudson Bay Bound will include our latest journal entry, complete with links to pictures. Our journals will include all of our mini-adventures that we will encounter each day as we travel over 2,000 miles through wind, rain, sun, mud, waves, rapids and wilderness. Hudson Bay Bound subscribers will also receive some exclusive articles and pictures unavailable on our website.
All the proceeds from Hudson Bay Bound go directly to expedition expenses. Examples include our bush plane flight from York Factory to the rail line, our rail ticket, medical insurance, printing costs, satellite phone minutes, laptop, food costs, etc. We sincerely appreciate your support!
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Hudson Bay Bound is not a replacement for the e-mail list we are using to send you this e-mail; we will continue to use this e-mail list to send out Expedition Updates.
Thanks everyone and we hope to see you all at the launch party!
Warmly,
Scott and Todd
Click the following link (or copy it and paste into your browser)to order Hudson Bay Bound via Pay Pal
I was wondering if Peter Puddicombe (wildwood paddles)had a booth at canoecopia. I have been trying to get ahold of him to possibly purchase a paddle, to no avail. Have heard on another site that others have had the same problem. If he did have a booth anybody care to tell me what his paddles were going for (trying to ease the wife into the purchase).
But he was not there. I did not ask anyone if there was a problem, just assumed he decided not to come. I hope Peter is OK. I would love another one of his paddles-I would have bought one at copia had he been there.
"When a man is part of his canoe, he is part of all that canoes have ever known."
Sigurd F. Olson
What is sorta weird about the whole thing is that places that normally carry his paddle are all out or do not offer them any more. Piragis used to sell them---no longer in catalog, Rutabaga only has the 52' red cedar paddle available (according to website), and here in MPLS Midwest Mountaineering no longer has any (at least the last time I was in there). Then on Quiet Journey site there was just a couple of posts about people ordering paddles last fall/early winter and still have not received them and cannot get a response from Peter. I wonder what is going on-----hope everything is okay.
...however, my last conversation with him as that he was retiring. He had some health problems a few years aback and I believe he wants to spend more time paddling instead of making paddles...
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Darren, Remote from Orem, Utah, where he is going snowshoeing tomorrow with his Mom.
I saw your show at canoecopia. I especially liked your joke about the guy who shot 3 distress shots with his bow. Your delivery was worth it. Thanks for the good info.
be in it. Some don't make it. I don't know if that is the case with Wildwood , but as you, many asked for him at the info booth. Darren what is the scoop??
K
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
I'm going into Cirrus lake in Quetico in June, I see on the Fisher maps some pictographs marked west of Sue falls, I've read some trip reports and have never heard them mentioned. Anyone know anything about them? Anything left to see? Thanks,
Dave
"The pictograph location site is located on the north shore of Cirrus Lake's most northerly and easterly tier. The pictographs are located on the narrow one-half mile long, north-south oriented bay's west shore, at the very tip of the point where the rock turns east-west from north-south. This bay is approximately one mile west of the bay that contains both the creek on which Sue Falls is located and the Sue Lake portage."
It sounds like it is an area with 4 "dots" and a wash of red just to thier left, and may not be very easy to see.
But a trip to any pictograph in my opinion is always a worthwhile trip.
Who left copia disappointed that they didn't purchase something that they saw for sale there? I know myself that I wish I had purchase some water purification products from MSR. Oh well next time.
I made a quick run to Canoecopia late Friday afternoon. Only stayed for two hours because I had to get back. Noticed the White Out snow storm outside and decided purchasing that 3rd beer from the concession stand was out of the question.
Did purchase the Knu-Pac, which is a huge, waterproof backpack that seems perfect for BW canoe camping. Great feel & fit too.
to go with it. I'd be interested to hear how you like it - I really like using mine and have had it for about 8 years. I would really like to get the new pack system they have to go with the frame, since I have the old one which is tall and thin and hard to stuff well with gear.
A friend recently had major colon surgery and now uses an outside bag in place of the colon. The friend still wants to trip in canoe country. We have talked about things to consider. My feeling has been that there must be tons of folks who canoe trip who wear a colostomy bag and do so without major limitation. My feelings are base on what I "think" about the subject, not on any experience with the subject.
What I'm looking for is either personal experience or knowledge of the experiences of someone you know has a colostomy bag and does canoe trips. What has been their experience? What limitations or adjustments are experienced or recommended?
Thanks for the collected experiential wisdom. I'll pass it on.
The game warden who works out of the same office as I do has one and there is no hindrance on him performing his job. I belive that he can even swim with it on as long as it is secured properly as they are required to pass a physical test on a periodic basis which includes swimming.
I was born 9 months after he got out of the hospital from that surgery! He was active and I doubt he ever made decisions based on that "restriction" - if he wanted to go or do something he did it. Go for it!
I am sorry Mike. I missed the part about you missing your friend. I'm sorry to hear you lost him but I can't help but think that people that are funny and good natured on earth are funny and good natured where they are now.
Since it is St. Pats day I figured many of you might decide to imbibe a little this evening. I know that everyone has heard about the dangers of alcohol consumption. Few however, have taken the side of the benefits. In reality, beer can make you smarter. (I mean besides making Bud, wiser) This can best be described with the famous 'Buffalo Theory'.
While many scholars are able to describe 'The Buffalo Theory' no one is able to do it with as much mental acuity as the famous scholar Cliff Clavin. Enjoy.
One afternoon at Cheers, Cliff was explaining the Buffalo Theory to his buddy Norm. Here's how it went:
"Well ya see, Norm, it's like this...A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members."
"In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers."
We are heading to Crab Lake in June. I was headed to that area a couple of years ago when the portage closed. We decided not to go up the river so went to a different entry point. Has anyone taken the new portage to Crab? How is it compared to the old one? Is there still an area of water one needs to cross? Thanks for the info.
We plan to revisit Crab this fall when Crab Creek may not be navigable. Have been across the old portage but not the new one. That crossing was on a '96 trip memorable for the crossing of Burntside without a map in a heck of a wind. A scary event of the "never again" class.
I too am curious about the portage and going up and down Crab Creek. Is it generally low to paddle in late Sept?
Have you read the part of The Singing Wilderness where Olson heads up the North Kawish from Silver Rapids to a portage into Snowbank on the snow and ice in spring? Your report and pictures remind me of it. Seems like Olson's trek would be 20+ miles -- what's your opinion having just been there, could you do that in a day? Anyway, if you haven't read it, you should.
I actually re-read that chapter as well as a few others on the plane ride to Minneapolis. Sig's trip was probably part of my inspiration to go. He had it somewhat easier than I did in that there was no snow on the lakes, but then again he had a lot more open water to get around. There's still no way I could have made it from Silver Rapids to somewhere on Snowbank in a day.
Jim
Why? For the thrilling thunder of rapids, the mournful wailing of loons, and the lure of an untrammeled forest that leads to a fishing hole.
Junior guide lands at Fort Hood, Texas Friday March 18th between 6 and 9 pm. I will leave Minneapolis Friday morning early to go down and welcome him back to the US. Unfortunately, due to the impending house move, only one of us can go so the mom and brother reunion will wait until he comes home to Minnesota in a few weeks.
All of you will be coming with me. I can't thank all of you enough. I said a long time ago that with the support Dan received from the board and elsewhere that he would arrive home safely. As of right now it looks like all of our wishes are coming true. I can only hope I can help all of the others still serving overseas to accomplish the same dream and reality. I will work and pray everyday to do my part to bring them all home safely.
Thanks to all of you a dad is breathing a big sigh of relief.
"When a man is part of his canoe, he is part of all that canoes have ever known."
Sigurd F. Olson
I am taking Momof6 to the airport Friday AM as well. She and her sister's are taking a 6 day vacation to see their Aunt in Washington DC. That leaves me home with all 6 by myself! (No sweat!)
As you know, traffic in the cities during rushhour is bad enough without adding some snow to the mix. Leave early, you sure don't want to miss that flight!
"We do not remember days, we remember moments...." Cesare Pavese
I know that you have been looking forward to this day for a long time. I am sure that you will enjoy the time with JG. These times are special, savor the moment.
And have a safe trip. We are so happy for all the good things happening in your lives right now.
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
I sat in my seat of the Boeing 767 waiting everyone to hurry and stow their carry-ons and grab a seat so we could start what I was sure to be a long , uneventful flight home. With the huge capacity and slow moving people taking
their time to stuff luggage far too big for the overhead and never paying much attention to holding up the growing line behind them, I simply shook my head knowing that this flight was not starting out very well.
I was anxious to get home to see my loved ones so I
was focused on "my" issues and justlike standing up and yelling for some of these clowns to get their act together. I knew I couldn't say a word so I just thumbed thru the "Sky Mall" magazine from the seat pocket in front of me. You know it's really getting rough when you resort to the over priced, useless sky mall crap to break the monotony. With everyone finally seated, we just sat there with the cabin door open and no one in any hurry to get us
going although we were well past the scheduled take off time. No wonder the airline industry is in trouble I told myself. Just then, the attendant came on theintercom to inform us all that we were being delayed.
The entire plane let out a collective groan. She
resumed speaking to say "We are holding the aircraft for some very special people who are on their way to the plane and the delay shouldn't be more than 5 minutes. The word came after waiting six times as long as we were promised that "I" was finally going to be on my way home. Why the hoopla over "these" folks? I was expecting some celebrity
or sport figure to be the reason for the holdup.........Just get their butts in a seat and lets
hit the gas I thought.
The attendant came back on the speaker to announce in a loud and excited voice that we were being joined by several U. S. Marines returning home from Iraq!!! Just as they walked on board, the entire plane erupted into applause. The men were a bit taken by surprise by the 340 people cheering for them as they searched for their seats.
They were having their hands shook and touched by almost
everyone who was within an arm's distance of them as
they passed down the aisle. One elderly woman kissed
the hand of one of the Marines as he passed by her.
The applause, whistles and cheering didn't stop for a long time. When we were finally airborne, "I" was not the only civilian checking his conscience as to the delays in "me" getting home, finding my easy chair, a cold beverage and the remote in my hand. These men had done for all of us and I had been complaining silently about "me" and "my" issues. I took for granted the everyday freedoms I enjoy
and the conveniences of the American way of life I took for
granted others paid the price for my ability to moan
and complain about a few minutes delay to "me" those
I was moved by your post. I know Friday evening when they all land and walk off that plane it will be real hard for me not to be crying and want to shake every one of their hands. I may not let Dan go from my hug and embrace for quite a while.
"When a man is part of his canoe, he is part of all that canoes have ever known."
Sigurd F. Olson
... the moment that we -- and especially you and your family -- have been waiting for is fast approaching! As a friend of mine would say; "you must be jumping out of your skin right now!"
Larry
To really appreciate the wilderness, one must pay attention to the small things as well as the grandiose.
I'll wave at your plan when I go through...I'm scheduled to be coming in about the time you're leaving, but I'm pretty sure I'll be delayed.
I'm sure you're excited to have JG back home...I think everyone's waiting for the public platyfest once he gets rested up!
'It's the start of a new adventure and I know its going to be a good one'
When Dan and I finally sit down and have a chance to talk and have a beer or whatever he would like, we will talk about the support and the prayers and their impact on his daily life. I know he felt all of your presence and had you on his shoulder daily. He will know you are there with me and him as we celebrate his return to the country he works for and loves. The journey is continuing. Next step will be for him tocome home to Minnesota in a month. After that the journey back to his wilderness for relaxation and solitude. I kow he looks forward to the first step, on that first portage that leads him back.
Soon JG-very soon now.
"When a man is part of his canoe, he is part of all that canoes have ever known."
Sigurd F. Olson
Curious on information about Fire Lake, north of 4 and Hudson. Don't see this lake mentioned in the guide books, but it has campsites on it according to my map. Have you been there...what is it like? Any info would be appreciated.
It's a real nice lake and a nice alternate to going straight through from Lake Four, to Hudson, then Insula. It doesn't see as much traffic as the more direct route to Insula. The campsite over on the east end is a pretty nice one, the other two are ok. If you happen to get that eastern most site you'll see little traffic.
There are also a couple nice sites on the north arm of Hudson. This arm of Hudson is also much less traveled than the southern section.
The portage in from the lake four, Bridge lake area is darn cool if you choose this (other)route on your way to Fire Lake. You might want to give it a look see. I thouroughy enjoyed it.
Twenty one blowdowns blocking the path last September!
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
We lunched on Fire in '04 and were impressed with this pretty little lake. The site on the west end where where we lunched - we would not have stayed at.
In any case, this is a lake that I want to see again and is worth the stop even if you don't stay there. The fact that it will take you off the main drag? That's a good thing.
I oppose drilling in ANWAR for many reasons but one is that the oil is there if needed by future generations. As an old hot rodder I know that changing the differential ratio greatly increases gas mileage. This one thing would increase SUV's mileage by 15-20%. Every SUV does not need to tow heavy boats. This is truly a sad day for those who love the wilderness.
and so close a vote at 51-49. it seems like a small thing in light of wars, et. al., but you think they could get this one thing right. pass a law that requires better gas milage, etc. but no. money wins out again. and nature loses. again.
I mean comm on... I'm opposed to drillin for more oil, so I think I'll use my disgust as an excuse to waste more oil to travel many miles to see what I never bothered to see before?then state how everybody should check their tire pressure to cut back on waste?...oh..my sides are splitting!...don't get me wrong I belive in good causes and conservation an the like, but shouldn't one start right at home if they really care? I just read post after post how thousands an thousands of our finest citizens hopped into their vehicles and drove to Madison Wi. for a pep ralley and spending spree..anybody there go out in the parking lot with an air gage, or check the tranneys for propper gear ratio....anybody give a seminar about these things? Anybody staying home this summer insted of burning fuel for fun.......?? Sorry, but from this B.B.I gotta laugh....I hear ya, an I'm with ya all the way....
we canoers do a lot of "talking with our gas tanks full"...we as a group really burn the fuel...and now the folks in china and india want to play too...
but it's a long road to the bw/q put-in for me...riding or walking! hush and pay it! they'll drill my coastline next...etc and so on...lm
our bastions of absurdity, scoffing and closed-mindedness. what would we do without you? oh yeah...we'd paddle in peace.
personally, on every BWCA trip i've taken a small, compact car (subaru, toyota, etc.) and never a gas-guzzler. we also only own one car--i walk, take the bus or ride my bike pretty much everywhere. so when i jump in my Corolla and head north (to not use ANY fuel for a week or more at a time), i feel good about myself.
the reality is that the united states uses a ridiculous amount of oil every year, so we need to cut back where we can. and drilling in the ANWR is not the answer. better fuel economy is the answer. more conscientious drivers is the answer. exploration of alternative energy sources is the answer. but no. the president wants to drill in a pristine wilderness. i guess money does win out over morals eventually, even among republicans. yay for the oil lobby.
sometime during the campaign, Dick Cheney said that implementing stricter CAFE standards would somehow cost - I don't remember the exact number, but something along the lines of 350,000 jobs. (He might have said it during a debate, but I'd have to look it up.) He never explained the logic behind this, and as far as I could tell, nobody in the media ever challenged him on it. Seems like new technology for better fuel economy would create jobs, not reduce them. (The only possible thing I can think of is maybe he's assuming that implementing stricter standards would go hand in hand with totally shutting down SUV/truck plants - not a fair assumption)
Big article in the paper yesterday in the Mpls/St. Paul area; Major cuts in public transportation - I guess the poor don't carry much weight with the powers that be, or the people who actually take the bus for political/ecological reasons
and closed mindness.....glad to see that we think and feel and say things much the same only diferent..I am wondering though, why on every BWCA trip you've taken a small compact car....isn't that against the rules, even on the motor lakes? Isn't motor use limited to outboard motors and not compact cars?? guess you confused me on that one..anyhoo..you feel pretty good about yourself for your frugal lifestyle and are to be commended just as is most any student of university level..the school my daughter attends will not even allow 1st. year students to have a vehicle on campus, and they are required to live on campus, does this situation apply to you also? Sience you applaud yourself , do you also applaud those that don't do as you. or do you look down upon them for the number and kind of vehicles they posess and drive? are you directing your comments to me or the members of the "Board",when you point out your opinion that the united states (I think you mean the people, not the actual land mass..correct?)uses a rediculous ammount of oil every year, so we (they, not you, you've already trimed back, for now anyhoo)need to cut back.. drilling in ANWR is not the answer, nor does sound like the non drilling is now a question...I must say though ,I do have an open mind. I am receptive to alternate and or supplemental types of energy and ect..bring it on! My mind is not so closed that I think the drilling will be the all out and out destruction doom and gloom that you try to portray..your mind seems to be closed that it is possiable to harvest natural resources with out damage. On your next trip to the BW, take a look around at the pristine beauty, and remember that once it was logged off, homesteaded, resorts and private cabind dotted the lakeshore,but it survived.. is it not possiable that after the drilling and oil extraction, the land and animals will remain the same and ANWR will go back to being a little sliver that no one again cares about or goes to visit? sometime ask me about my ski-ing or snowshoe adventures.
pinebent (Login pinebent)
Posted Mar 17, 2005 7:00 PM
"On your next trip to the BW, take a look around at the pristine beauty, and remember that once it was logged off, homesteaded, resorts and private cabind dotted the lakeshore,but it survived.. is it not possiable that after the drilling and oil extraction, the land and animals will remain the same and ANWR will go back to being a little sliver that no one again cares about or goes to visit?"
On the point of "our wilderness" once being developed territory - logged and occupied - I'll agree that some areas can regenerate to the point of recovering most of their past. Like you, I would like to hold out some hope that the land of ANWR would recover from the insults it is about to receive. Alas, it doesn't look good though: the tire ruts from the survey transects performed 30+ years ago in that area are still visibly scarring the tundra. You see, tundra has far less resiliency than temperate forests...vastly shorter growing season and all.
After the oil's been sucked from the ground and we've left to exploit another resource elsewhere the tracks, roads, holding ponds, rusting storage tanks, dilapidated outbuildings and pumping facilities will most likely be left as our legacy for centuries to come. Perhaps the area IS so remote nobody but the caribou, polar bears, and Inuit will be witness to the effects of our self-serving rationalizations. Does that make our despoiling of a wilderness less of a crime against nature?
although the BW is't in the tundra climate, it is right next door, and has only slightly longer growing season. Many of the bogs, and more of the slow growing spruce swamps still have treeless swaths and arteries cut thru them.. these were logging and other roads long ago. They still exist and are quite in evidence. if anybody ventures off the beaten path to get there.(out of sight, outta mind)don't seem to distract from the area, or keep to many folks from enjoying the place. In ANWR, I would expect any buildings holding ponds,etc to be removed, just as they were in the BW,or other desiginated wilderness areas, or they could be turned into interesting historic architecal ruins admired by generations yet to come long from know....such as the desert SW cliff dwellings, BW pictographs, or burial mounds elsewhere...granted, it would take many centuries untill the modern stuff will be appreciated, by aint humans funny? we admire and respect what ancient civilizations do...what if we were to tear down the pyramids and spinx, to improve the view or quality of view in the pristine desert??? another point I'm not sure of , isnt ANWR a refuge, and not a designated National Wilderness? If so, the desigination alown allows different rules and regulations than Nat,Parks or wilderness. There is junk (or artifacts? ) left on the moon, yet is the full moon glistining on a calm snowfilled lake any less beautiful? I agree that some would find viewing such a setting a sour,vile,eyesore, knowing the moon has been ruined for all times by pernement footsteps and abandoned moon buggies....but, I,m different, I usuly never think of that , and enjoy the beautiful sight. Our national treasures are owned by the whole population of the U.S. and territories, and I would guess that at least 90
before I was done....90% of our citizens could not care less about what goes on in places they know little to nothing about or visit.....wory, dispare,and sleepless nights over the management or mismanagement of federal lands is left up to the other 10%. Some, such as me....have an interest on what goes on, but don't let things such as use of Natural resources ruin my day...life goes on, the world turns, the sun comes up, the sun goes down, and
i give thanks the good lord put oil beneath the ground for us to use,,,,,to not do so would indeed be a sin!.....well beter get out there in the wilderness and take some photos, who knows?? a giant meteror (like a huge comet) may crash into the earth today, leaving me the only human on the now pristine planet...well, me an Bent Pine, and the monkey...we will miss all you........so loooooooooooooong!!!!!!
Your assertion that N. Minnesota is not ecologically much different from that of the North Slope is wholly false. Just as much as Chicago's ecology is the same as Miami's...it ain't.
Ancient Egyptian monuments weren't leftovers from their reaping of natural resources, they were...well, religious relics. Are you trying to tell me that the ruins of our exploitation of the North Slope will be, in the future, (mis)interpreted as the relics of some ancient religion? Interesting. Tell me more.
You argue that ANWR is a Refuge and not a Designated Wilderness so different rules apply. The fact that the BW was created from developed areas into Designated "Wilderness" proves that wilderness is independent of designation, law or fiat. ANWR fits the definition of wilderness, despite your attempts at relativism.
You also use the word "pristine" to describe a BWCA lake. Heh. Did you choke when you wrote that in the same sentence as "as you paddle on the surface of a pristine BWCAW lake, do you ever think of the tons of discarded rements of humans that lay below the surface?"
That pretty much knocks it out of the realm of pristine, doesn't it? [I may have been too harsh...pray tell, which lake in the BWCAW is pristine, or are there many?]
It's a done deal unless the House votes it down, which is improbable. As jamesgang said, another one bites the dust.
I yam prepared to take ya on...I admit, I aint much at typeing, spelling an such so I may be at somewhat of a BB disadvantage, but iffin ya really want to.....I will attempt somewhat of a try...
Sooo..the Mn. ecology may differ from the artic slope, but that is not the issue,, the issue is total destruction of a piece of land....I do not think total destruction will happen.
Are you sure that ancient Egypt monuments were not leftovers from reaping natural resourses? After all, stone is a natural resourse , is it not? you know it to be something different?? It was a priceless comodity and a status symble to them perhaps...Are modern interpetations of their cult accurate as religious???and, yes, future generations may actually think of anything left over at ANWR as religious symbles..who are we to say what or what may not be thought by future generations?
You state that I argue that AWNR is a Refuge and not a desiginated wilderness..no, I do not argue it, I state it as a fact.and laws do indeed affect lawful use...It is your own statement that wilderness is independent of desigination, law of fiat, so just because the BW has benn desiginated, are you stating that you don't think it fits and should be de wildernessized?
I will use your own words to ask"prey tell, which lake in the BWCAW is pristine...you tell me...are there any????
Anotherone bites the dust, but does it matter in the long run.....and is it really biting the dust in anyones mind but a few oddball thinkers??which I kin relate tuuu by da way!
pb:
"Sooo..the Mn. ecology may differ from the artic slope, but that is not the issue,, the issue is total destruction of a piece of land....I do not think total destruction will happen."
Who said the destruction would be total? [Do you know what a straw man argument is? You're doing it.] Drilling will scar and damage a sensitive area with little reserves to recover for hundreds of years. That's not destruction, it despoilment.
pb:
"You state that I argue that AWNR is a Refuge and not a desiginated wilderness..no, I do not argue it, I state it as a fact.and laws do indeed affect lawful use...It is your own statement that wilderness is independent of desigination, law of fiat, so just because the BW has benn desiginated, are you stating that you don't think it fits and should be de wildernessized?"
No, I don't think the BW should be de-wildernessized and yes I don't think it fits. I think the designation of Wilderness and Refuge have little to do with whether an area is truly a wilderness. Many wilderness places exist without being designated by law as "Wilderness". On the other hand, the BWCA Wilderness is merely an arbitrary distinction made so by law. I believe you and I agree the BW is not a wilderness.
pb:
"I will use your own words to ask"prey tell, which lake in the BWCAW is pristine...you tell me...are there any????"
So you agree then that there are no pristine lakes in the BW you can find? It only illustrates my point that there are so few untouched places in our United States. Why deflower this region (ANWR) for what can only account for 2% of our desire? We can't do something else?
what a straw man argument is, but I suspect it is what mostly the type of word twisting, and B.S. that is thrown about by the smart people.......which is something some of the rest of us can see through.sometimes.
wouldden I like to take time to thank you for the link.....I cliked on each ..and read each one of them, now I may be no more intelligent, but I do feel better informed. Thank you. After reading though, I wonder...wasn't you givin me a little bit of the straw man routine yourself, or would it be one of the other clasifications?...oooops, wood type more, but me missues just pulled a couple ribeyes of the grill, and duty calls.latter...PB, er id dat BP...??????
as you paddle on the surface of a pristine BWCAW lake, do you ever think of the tons of discarded rements of humans that lay below the surface? Man, what a motherlaod of artifacts......old automobiles and discarded outboad motors that today are worth a mint to vintage colectors...tons of foodcans, tabacco tins, beer cans, whiskey bottles, ketchup bottles an stuff...old generators, washing machines, rootbeer bottles, sunk boats and metal canoes remolded by rapids??? it's all down there..yep, does it ruin the wilderness experience? Sig Olson suggested discarding of ones trash by sinking it in the lake, as a method of leave no trace....although folks were discarding their stuff in the lakes long, before Sig traveled the area, Sig caught on and grew savy to the practice and preached this method to be used by modern campers....ever think that Siguard may have sunk an empty outboard oil can or two into the lake???He did use motors on occasion ya know! anyhoo....just a little example of the "outta sight , outta mind " mentality in the BW.....its there..does it ruin your trip, of does it not exist because ya don't go below the lake surface and see some of the lesser visited areas the BW has to offer....as a dabbeler in SCUBA and snorkeling, my BW visits have been greatly enhanced by getting below the surface and seeing all the wilderness has to offer....yep some truly 5 star desposal sites down there.....anybody else got secret dump info they would like to share?
...many artifacts of the logging days remain throughout the area in the wilderness...you just need to look around.
On Horse Lake, we found countless artifacts strewn throughout the woods that neighbored our camp. Lanterns, saws and a variety of other equipment that had once been used to harvest timber in that area - I am sure, however, it wouldn't even compare to what is below the surface of the lake!
Interesting stuff PB.
Madl
"He who travels with dry foot, not experience all that canoe country has to offer."
My son doesn't need to see anything outside of our urban lifestyle.
What shall I tell him? "Sorry son, but we can't travel to see the pristine beauty of the Boundary Waters or the majesty of the Alaskan wilderness because if we dare use too much oil our government will open these lands to drilling. Here read this book on the subject instead."
Major metropolises will flurish with all the additional spending that takes place with their citizens staying put, but the regions that rely on tourism will be choked out...which may not be so bad as it will give the U.S. more wilderness area to which we are forbidden to travel.
The government was waiting for ANY excuse to open this area up and try to get it in under the radar...which, for the most part, they are doing with great success...hasn't been in any of my local news sources.
The recreational travel that we enjoy, plays a small part in the overall problem...without opening this area for drilling, the U.S. doesn't see any profit...and that's what it's all about, ain't it?
I will continue to take my family on trips...both in our car and on airplane...so we can enjoy as much of the country as possible...and my son will know life beyond strip malls and skyscrapers.
Madl
"He who travels with dry foot, not experience all that canoe country has to offer."
The lame excuse, the the reason for drilling in ANWR is to "reduce our dependence on foreign oil." Anybody with a basic understanding of a market-driven economy will understand that "foreign dependence" argument is nothing but a red herring. The oil reserve in ANWR is so small that it will not even make a dent in the world supply (as a side note, I believe that was the point being made by JamesGang when he sarcastically said that more oil could be saved by checking your tire's air pressure). ANY downward pressure on crude oil prices resulting from the ANWR drilling operations would be immediately offset by a reduction in output by OPEC as a means of driving the price back up.
And anybody that thinks that the oil companies that receive the contracts to drill in ANWR will ship the oil ONLY to American buyers rather than to the highest bidder is deluding themselves. They will sell at market prices to whomever is willing to pay.
If the goal of drilling in ANWR was truly to reduce our reliance on foreign oil, the Federal Government should conduct the drilling operations itself and guarantee that all oil recovered would go directly into the national reserve system and not sold on the open market. That of course will not happen, because this is about corporate profit and has NOTHING to do with alleviating the energy crisis.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for the free enterprise system, and I don't view corporate profits as a bad thing. Just don't try to disguise a profit motive as some sort of patriotic duty. It's insulting, and I hope the American public sees through it.
Mrs. Zebich has been looking for a new vehicle, and was strongly considering a little 4 cylinder beast. Well, after hearing the good news about ANWR, we have decided to look at a more roomy and fun SUV.
I let a few pounds of air out of the tires of my truck (a V-8, of course), and we just drove around aimlessly for awhile, with lots of starts and stops, before heading for a test drive of the SUV. She was a little concerned about the mileage with the SUV, but when I pointed out how many "green" types would be upset with her choice, that pretty much sealed the deal. Getting into the spirit of aggravating people, she was lobbying for the leather interior, but instead we opted to upgrade by adding the tow package. We'll probably take delivery on Monday.
Meanwhile, I grieve for the loss of the Porcupine herd of caribou that was destroyed by North Slope drilling years ago..... Oh wait - that's right, the numbers actually INCREASED after the drilling and pipeline. Darn, those pesky details keep getting in the way of good mourning...
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
although it's more than just sheer numbers of caribou. There's a reason that that one little sliver of Alaska was designated a refuge, and that's due to its biodiversity; the tundra plants, musk oxen, polar bears, freshwater ponds, migratory birds, bowhead whales,....but none of those things send their own lobbyists or shell out their own cash to purchaseW politiciansW.
I dunno, but I seem to recall that the whole deal with ANWR back in the Carter years was that part of this area was understood to be used for future oil development. If memory serves me correctly, the locals (Inuit?) were promised the next slice of the oil economy, but have thus far been stymied by actions from DC.
If the plan here was to basically go in and rape and pillage the area, I'd probably be agreeing with a bunch of you. However, from what I have seen and read it appears that an effort is being made to develop with an eye towards minimum impact - a far cry from how things were done a few generations ago.
In the meanwhile, absent some pretty compelling arguments that some extremely rare lichen found nowhere else on earth is in danger of extinction from the drilling and such, I will cautiously support our exploratory efforts.
And Howard, if the numbers of caribou do not serve as an indicator, what measures should we use? You have me curious now! Perhaps science will come up with a way to survey the caribou, and get their opinion. We already know what the people who live up there think.
This is one of those issues where I believe that people of good will can have an honest disagreement without resorting to bitterness and denunciation. I appreciate your tone Howard, as we have sparred in the past without allowing it to become personal.
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
It will be interesting to see how things develop up in that region, but once it gets started and the oil starts flowing it may be difficult to stop the greed.
I appreciate that you say "cautiously support"...we'll see how this all transpires.
Madl
"He who travels with dry foot, not experience all that canoe country has to offer."
With the Senate vote so close on this issue, I'd be willing to bet that if things got out of hand, the loyal opposition would be holding some feet to the fire. And if things were indeed out of hand, I'd be equally willing to bet that some votes would change.
Meanwhile, as you suggest, I'm really curious to see just how well they can do this - has the r&d of the companies progressed to the point that they are claiming? Can they pull this off while not substantially altering things?
And if they can, will we see a different paradigm in how these issues are debated, discussed and voted upon? So many questions, and we get to watch the answers develop in real time.
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
with "minimal" impact? Or, once the introductory, highly scrutinized period is over, and the next celebrity murder trial takes over the news reports, will they just do whatever saves them the most money? These are companies like Exxon, who still fight fulfilling their obligations in the Valdez mess. Companies who refuse to shell out the extra bucks for double-hulled tankers (except, I believe, for Conoco). At the same time, they've got legislators on their side who are working to reduce their obligations to do business in an environmentally friendly way....and to let them get away with it, at least with minimal penalties.
I'm sure there's some dude sitting in BP headquarters somewhere who really cares, really wants to pull it off, really wants to shake the oil companies' image as greedy b@$$t@rds who couldn't care less about nature. But I doubt that guy is in charge. Whether they can or cannot pull it off in a non-detrimental way, do you trust them to do so? I don't.
That’s right Pete. The caribou herds have been greatly enhanced due to the Prudhoe Bay oil fields. Along with the caribou the grizzly and polar bears also have thrived. All of those caribou make good eating for the bears. The herd numbered between three and four thousand when they started drilling in the Deadhorse area. Today their numbers are estimated to be over 38,000 in the Prudhoe bay and North Slope area. When my wife and I toured the Prudhoe Bay oil field last summer a herd of 4000 caribou had been in the Deadhorse area a couple days before we arrived. They slowly grazed right through the town of Deadhorse, around the pipelines, maintenance quarters and wells. They have adapted very well. The biodiversity of the area has not been compromised at all. The tundra plants, musk oxen, polar bears and caribou are flourishing. The abundant fresh water ponds are filled with migratory birds of all types’ right amongst the wells and pipelines. Thanks to the Prudhoe bay oil fields and the Alpine oil field to the west we now have the opportunity to take the Dalton haul road right up to the edge of the Artic ocean. We get the chance to see all of this biodiversity right from the seat of your vehicle. I highly recommend if you are contemplating a trip to Alaska to take this 900 mile round trip north from Fairbanks to the North Slope. The beauty along the way is unbelievable. Hopefully jamesgang gets his trip in next summer. Hopefully he can take eglath with him. Once you get up to the coastal plain you will see that the tiny tiny little slice of the northwest corner of ANWR now being opened to drilling will have no effect on the biodiversity of the region. You will see that the costal plain which varies from ten to fifty miles wide, where the oil is found, is not some fabulous pristine wilderness like the environmentalist would have you believe. You will see that it is just a cold, flat peace of tundra highly suitable for a few oil wells.
Prudhoe Bay oil wells and Artic Ocean
...for instance, I've also been on the Haul Road. And I found it to be absolutely gorgeous and I believe the North Slope is more than just substrate for oil derricks.
Secondly, the caribou herd in the Prudhoe Bay area do not use that area at the time of calving, when they are most sensitive to human disturbance, but mostly for a feeding and staging area. The herd that uses ANWR uses the Refuge for calving, so the argument that the herd is doing all right in the Prudhoe Bay area is not relevant to ANWR. In the recent past, the herd using ANWR has on a couple of occassions been forced to calve elsewhere due to early breakups on major river systems and the mortality of calves increased significantly...something like more than half the calves perished in both of those years. And ANWR is the most suitable calving area for this herd on its entire migratory route.
Thirdly, the North Slope is far more sensitive to disturbance than the BW and Quetico. You could log off the BW, as much of it was, and 80 years later it will...well look like it does today. (But even that argument is suspect because the BW probably would look different than it does today if it had not been logged off in the first place. More 250 year old red and white pine groves, more downed, rotting logs, more...well....) Environmental systems at lower latitudes respond much faster to disturbance than those in higher latitudes because of longer growing seasons, making it much more difficult for tundra to recover from abuse that ecosystems further to the south would more or less shrug off. For instance, a tracked vehicle mashing down vegetation or removing it causes permafrost to melt, resulting in slumping soils which in turn fill with water leaving a highly visible watery track that will persist for decades or even centuries. That doesn't happen in northern Minnesota, at least not to the same degree.
Yes, nature recovers, but to what effect? Something almost assuredly different than what would have occurred with out the disturbance. That's why some places need to be preserved, if for no other reason.
One of ANWR's great characteristics is that is wild; something that we could probably all agree on, even though some of us would question whether the BW is wild. One can't really draw an arbitrary dotted line on the ground someplace, or on a map, and say this is wilderness over here and this isn't because the wild doesn't work that way. But I think the BW is diminished in that much of it was logged over. Now that appears the fate of ANWR. There will almost certainly be scars that will persist much longer than what happened in the BW and they won't be disappearing in 80 years after drilling is over.
We found the North Slope and the Brooks Range to be such fantastic places that we resolved we would put our money where our hearts were. Last September we purchased an hybrid vehicle to make sure we would reduce our energy footprint and the over-riding moral issue in deciding to purchase the hybrid was the drilling issue in ANWR. Yes, we paid extra for the car's technology, but that was only in economic terms. We gained a great deal of satisfaction in knowing we would play a smaller role in "needing" energy from ANWR.
Attached is a photograph I took while standing just four miles from the western boundary of ANWR looking south towards the Brooks Range. While the mountains have scenic beauty, most of the wildlife, for most of the year depend on ANWR in this area. A scene such as this with diminished wildlife is another pretty landscape stripped of its soul.
I don't know what you saw or didn't see on the North Slope that I did, but last night I didn't sleep well thinking that this wilderness was going to be just one more example of how money always trumps beauty and nature, even though our economic systems have just about overrun the rest of the Earth. The philosopher Michiavelli suggested "might makes right" and that "unarmed philosophers are dead philosophers," but somehow I believe he was morally wrong in his first conclusion even if he unfortunately was right in his second. The decision to drill ANWR is wrong and all the philosophers among us just got run over.
Hey, I happen to work for an Amish gentleman. Chin whiskers, dark clothing, suspenders. I’m programming his CNC lathes and mills. We have a wireless network and a card swipe timeclock. The delivery guy (also Amish) was complaining the other day about people in the Chicago area driving too fast and too close, then told me about how the Street Pilot GPS worked in his truck. Go figure. Pick out another stereotype.
The real issue here IMO is not the potential drilling of oil at ANWR, which I agree, seems to have been approached in a reasonable, minimal impact manner.
The real danger, and the reason I have (and continue to) opposed this drilling is precedent. Our environmental regulation in this country largely is implemented through interpretation of the written law. Traditionally it hinges on precedent, i.e., what has been deemed to be OK in the past is also deemed to be OK in the future. Thus setting a legal precedent for saying that allowing extraction industries access to our Natioanl Wildlife Refuges is IMO not a good thing. You never know when this may come to bite us in the @$$ somewhere else completely unexpected.
To me it just makes good sense that allowing drilling, mining, or logging in a wildlife REFUGE is not a good idea. Apparently this view is not shared by our esteemed members of govt at this time, paid for by our local oil companies.
Bottom line, the precedent setting here is (or should be) of way more concern here than the issue of whether or not this will harm the wildlife in ANWR.
"Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the U.S. Ask any Indian"
1) Drilling will be done by: Coneco, BP, EXON etc. and they can sell it to whoever they want. How does this lessen our dependancy if they sell the oil to japan?
2) Oil prices are dictated by OPEC and texas crude sells for the exact same price as OPEC oil and so will ANWR oil. How will ANWAR oil lower the prices at the pump?
3) Because ANWAR oil cannot lower our dependancy on foreign oil or lower the prices at the pump... why do it?
I say we keep it for ourselves and use the foreign oil first. That way we have our cake and eat it too.
deplete the other countries first, so we are the final ones to have petrolium to use.....we'll have them over a barrell so to speak....same thing with logging...depleat to other countries first, then sell our wood products, or better yet, keep it to ourselfs.....longrange tactics to win over the long haul....
EARTH FIRST.....we'll log the other planets latter.....
1)it won't
2)it won't
3)for more $$$ in the pockets of top corporate honchos. About the only positive might be some jobs in Alaska, at least for a while.
...sounds exactly like mine from above. These are common sense points that are supported by the realities of simple economics. Therefore, they will be ignored completely.
The foreign dependancy issue is more specifically an issue of reducing dependancy on hostile or potentially hostile foreign producers - meaning Arab countries, Nigeria, Venezuala etc.
Oil prices are most certainly not dictated by OPEC any more. If anything has been made clear in the recent run-up in oil prices it is that. At one time, OPEC ministers could simply jaw-bone the price around. Now they are powerless. Oil prices are being dictated by simple supply and demand forces. Not by the once monopolistic OPEC and not by GWB.
There are some basic tennants of running a successful oil company:
One is that you must always try to increase your reserves. If you don't you will run out of oil and cease to exist. There are two primary methods of doing this - one is to acquire smaller oil and gas companies, the other is to explore. Exploration is extremely costly. And it can crush you if you are continuously unsuccessful. But if you don't, you will most certainly run out of reserves and that is the ultimate catastophic expense. This brings us to ANWR. When you know where a viable reserve exists, any impediment to extraction is extremely frustrating to an oil company.
The second tennant is that in any commodity-driven cyclical industry, you must make hay while the sun is shining because economic history has always told us that is true. There will most certainly be long lean periods to follow and undercapitalized companies will fold in those periods. The current price of oil is making all kinds of formerly expensive reserves suddenly recoverable. The oil companies are looking out for their interests like any prudent business would. The constant snivvling about greed is an indictment of capitalism.
" At one time, OPEC ministers could simply jaw-bone the price around. Now they are powerless. Oil prices are being dictated by simple supply and demand forces. Not by the once monopolistic OPEC and not by GWB."
Powerless? No way. Supply & demand forces? Yes. Who drives/controls the supply? OPEC.
(And no, even I can't blame GWB for oil prices. But the high prices sure help him with his agenda, don't they?)
Usually oil prices are controlled by supply and demand. I don’t think that for the past year the supply and demand has a whole lot to do with. Opec has upped production over the past 12 months and most of the nations are producing way above there quota. There are a lot of new oil wells coming on line in northern Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia. Huge discoveries of oil and natural gas have been discovered in the Dawson Creek BC area in the last couple years. The girl at the information booth at Dawson Creek said last summer that within three years people won’t know the town back due to the huge influx of oil workings moving in. The town is expected to triple in size. None of new production going online and none of the expected new wells coming online in the next few years along with the now allowed drilling in anwr has done anything to affect the price of oil as of yet.
I think the oil prices throughout the last couple years have been controlled completely by the speculators. The fifty percent rise in oil prices in the last year has come about in my opinion nearly all by the buying and selling of “paper oil”
There is no shortage of gas or diesel right now. No one is standing in line to buy. In visiting with my fuel supplier for my farm fuel for the up coming season he claims diesel fuel is very easy to get, no shortage. He said the oil brokers are standing firm on there prices and will not budge.
There is an upper limit though on the price. It just hasn’t been found yet. With the hot US economy we have going at present you hear very little bitching about the high price of fuel. I do think that in the long term though the increased production will have an effect on how high the price will get. We have to remember that the increased oil coming from Canada and Alaska will not be here overnight so now is the time to get anwr online to help with the oil prices of the future. I believe two to three dollar gas is here to stay.
First off, and I hate to be picky, but the word is "tenet."
Also, although I have no complaint regarding your review of the basic tenets of the inner workings of the oil industry, I do differ with you on several points.
1. "When you know where a viable reserve exists, any impediment to extraction is extremely frustrating to an oil company."
What would be really frustrating for the remaining 99% of the population is if there were NO impediments to extraction. The legal wrangling required for oil companies to acquire the right to exploit a resource ensures (albeit to a small degree depending on which power broker is running Washington)a checks and balances mechanism to protect our other interests (such as the preservation of the wild areas). The impediments serve a crucial purpose. Remove those impediments and the rest of us would be "frustrated."
2. "Oil prices are most certainly not dictated by OPEC any more."
While I agree with your statement: "Oil prices are being dictated by simple supply and demand forces," I would strongly disagree with your assertion that OPEC is "powerless" to affect the price. Any time an organization controls 40% on an industry's output, it can and does have a major effect on prices.
3. "The constant snivvling about greed is an indictment of capitalism."
I am a big supporter of capitalism and the free market system. I do not believe the corporate profit is a bad thing. What I object to is the claim that the oil in ANWR will somehow lessen our reliance on foreign oil. That argument is an "indictment on common sense." We are talking about profit here, pure and simple; please don't insult my intelligence by telling me we are performing some patriotic duty by exploiting this resource. If it's about the money, just come out and say so. (these last two statements are rhetorical in nature and not specifically directed to you).
Thanx about the spell correction - I thought about it before sending. Something didn't seem right. I had two colleagues standing at my door wanting to go for the early wings special so I had to swallow some pride and take the risk by sending without checking.
The impediments serve a crucial purpose.
I agree. And I could have elaborated on that point further. Frustration in this context is relative. The oil companies are not asking to drill under the capital building nor in Bellaire, CA. If they can't drill in the remote Arctic tundra where there is a proven significant deposit, where they know it will impact most locals positively, where almost no-one will see the development because almost no-one visits, in an area that is truly no more unique than the other 20 million acres of Arctic tundra, then this is a cause for frustration.
Any time an organization controls 40% on an industry's output, it can and does have a major effect on prices.
This is not a question of output and has not been for a while. The industry is operating at or near capacity. OPEC is a semi-flimsy organization full of cheaters. Almost all members produce significantly above their individual quotos as it is. And there is simply not enough current capacity for them increase production in a meaningful way to alleviate price. And in a market where demand significantly outstrips the ability to supply, price adjusts higher. The significant and secular growth in oil demand is from China.
I suppose OPEC could theoretically cut production but these are savvy enough business people to understand the concept of economic self-preservation. High oil prices are recessionary and negatively impact OPEC countries' investments in the west.
Speculators (and hedgers) do not operate in a vacuum (a response to Sherwin). They assess supply and demand factors in order to make a call on future price and then take a position. They are most certainly responsible for part of the volatility in oil prices or any commodity for that matter. But they are not the cause of the increased demand for the commodity.
That argument is an "indictment on common sense"
I agree here too. But wrapping stuff like this in the flag is a habitual practice when a project or effort requires political leverage. It resonates nicely for a lot of folks. For others, it conjures images of Samuel Johnson. It is politics, and by definition it has great potential for annoyance.
we weren't that far apart. I just want the industry to step up to the plate and sell this idea on its proper terms: profit/loss, tax generation, etc. and stop trying to sell the idea that drilling in ANWR is a way to make America stronger. If we, the owners of ANWR, are going to grant permission to some company to exploit our resources, I want an open and honest discussion on why we're allowing it and what's in it for us.
Furtman describes a panel on the WEST end of Crooked which was undiscovered until as late as 1980 by two USFS rangers (with spray paint cans in hand?). Furtman describes the panel as being about one mile south of the Curtain Falls portage on a bubular peninsula. Now this panel was only a half mile south of the former location Zups Resort. Furtman wondered after all those years of fishermen/women trawling by someone other than a couple of FS people, years after the resort was dismantled, would have seen it. The location of this panel is not on either McKenzie or Fisher maps. I asked the "Canadian Shield Spiritual Places" presentor at 'copia and he was unaware of it. Neither was Stu Osthoff aware of it, nor did the picto artist, Geri Schrab, at the Show know anything of it.
So... anyone out there who could help? The panel must be hard to find, so where/what do I look for? Thanks.
The year that Furtman's book was published we searched in the Lac Croix to Curtain areas for pictographs. We found several discrepancies, and he admitted that he had not seen some of them first hand but was relying on reports of others. I believe this was the case with the Crooked Lake ones. They are not found on the "bulbous" point" but rather on the next point, just above where the arrow is pointing on the map in the book.
"Picture Perfect Paddling" in BWJ, Fall 2001 describes what we saw: "Marshall and I combed the entire area where we thought they should be but found nothing. Rounding a peninsula to the adjoining bay, however, we saw a rock wall with a band of red paint that caught my eye. One primitive image portrayed a stick man in a canoe, while nearby a blob somewhat resembled a rose. A liberal wash of scribbles filled the remainder of the gray-white granite, along with a couple of tally marks and an obscure bird-like figure."
I'll try to scan my slides and post the photos. They were not as clear as other pictographs, but it was obviously native art.
Incidentally, there are some nearby on McAree Lake only a half mile from Rebecca Falls. They are also on the opposite shore from that listed in the book.
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
As I say they don't look like much from the photos--actually they don't look very impressive in person, either. Nevertheless, they are significant when you think of the history and meaning behind them.
This is the pictograph wall
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
I have some more close-ups of the pictographs, but I can't get them uploaded for some reason. Suppose I've offended the Maymaygwayshis or something?
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
about the maymaygwayshis after reading about Furtman's boiling water story. Wonder what has happened to those in the past who have touched or defaced any of the canoe country panels? 'Tis not to fear the USFS perhaps?
I was going to try to find those pictos this summer and explore the old lodge ruins if we can find them.
We have noticed lots of discrpencies in Furtmans book he does note somewhere in the book as you said that he has not seen all of the sites and has to sometimes relie on others memories (which we all know can be innaccurate). Another discepency we found are the Jordan lake pictos are on the opposite end of the lake as he decsribes----I almost think it is more fun when you think you know where they are at, but end up finding them yourself (as you did). It adds to the adventure aspect.
So are the pictos closer to Curtain or further away---not sure I understood your directions---I thought (going on memory) they were on the backside of an island?
The pictos are just a little farther away from the falls than the book describes them--kinda near where the Crooked Lake arrow is pointing. Not on an island.
There are no lodge ruins at the old resort site. A rock cairn marks the spot at the entry, but we had to bushwack our way through the site. Not much of any clearings left. I'll try to post that picture, too, if I can get it working. Maybe I've been posting too many pictures lately and my file is to full.
I'm still wondering exactly where the Jordan ones are. We looked there but didn't find anything, but that was before Furtman's book came out. I was going by the report by Rom in his book.
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
They are not very easy to see. There is actually two sets of them. They are on the eastern end of Jordan where it narrows down towards (or way from depending on your direction of travel) the short portage to Ima lake. The first one is sort of around the corner on the north face of the narrows just past where you start to turn north in the narrows as you are coming off the main lake going towards the Ima Portage. The next set is just a little ways down towards the portage. They are maybe 100-150 yards from the Ima portage. You can vaguely make out a couple of hand prints, a person, some tally marks(if I remember right), and a bunch of splotches. Furtman also says there was a canoe--do not remember that--may have been one--obviously they were not real memorable. Rocks are very weathered and have lots of lichen. Pictures of pictos did not even turn out well---otherwise I would post them. Happy Hunting.
I think I see where the Crooked pictos are now---I was remembering that Bulbous piece of land as an island for some reason.
Just got my copy of "Magic on the Rocks" yesterday. looked at the Jordan Lake info in the book. Hope to see them on May 22nd. Furtman says they are by the Cattyman Poratage on the north side approx 10-24 inches above the water. That is on the west side of Jordan Lake. Maybe there are some on both ends of the Lake as Tim was seeing his on the east end.
The problem with Furtman's book is he had to rely on decriptions from others alot of time. There is alot of room for error. Either from the person remmbering, the person writing the story can right it wrong or a mistake can be made when recopying it into a book. The whole east/west thing screws alot of people up too (me included). Memories are a funny thing and can play tricks on us---for example I remember someone asking about the ice caves on Alice and seeing literally 5 different locations from people who had been there---memories are not very accurate. Any of the sites Furtman has seen seem to be highly accurate because he documented them at the moment he saw them.
In Bill Rom's book he documents the Jordan Lake pictos in the general area I have seen them. In Furtman's book his directions are almost right on except he says the west end near Cattyman not east end near Ima. If you reverse his directions they are almost right on. So it just looks like a mistake. I also doubt there are any near the Cattyman portage because there really are no rocky areas to put any Pictos on. If you have seen alot of pictos you can spot a potential spot pretty easily.
I did search the west end of Jordan anyways thinking that maybe there was another set to no avail-----Now just because I didn't find any doesn't mean there are none---I just find it highly unlikely under the circumstances.
The first time I looked for those pictos about 30 years ago (prior to all of the picto maps) I stared at the first set for probably a full minute before actually seeing them. I had paddled and walked right past them dozens of times without seeing them, or even knowing they were there.
If you have ever done those goofy things in the Sunday comics where you put the paper up near your face, and suddenly a 3D picture appears, the experience was like that for me.
Life may be a bitch, but it beats the alternative.
I really have to give my little sister credit for finding the pictos on Jordan. After the Ima Portage I told everyone in our group how there was supposed to be pictos at the other end of the lake. After paddling about 100-150 yards she yells out found them----before I could explain to her there were no pictos in this part of the lake she pointed them out and although quite faded they were obviously pictos---she then went on to find the second set nearby. Thankfully I did not try to explain to her there was only one set of pictos---now trusting her eyes. We never found any on the west end. At first I thought we had discovered some pictos no one else had ever reported before (even though it is a well traveled route), but came to the conclusion that Furtman's location was just off.
Keep your eyes open I could be wrong on some extra pictos on the west end as my sister with the eagle eyes was getting board looking for them by then. It is always fun finding something unexpected.
If you ever come to Oregon and have any opportunity at all you really should visit Timberline Lodge up on Mt. Hood. It's an Oregon icon, along with Crater Lake.
Much of my early career revolved around Mt. Hood - working up the Clackamas River and then over at Parkdale in the Hood River Valley. I keep Mt. Hood in a special place. It was just an awesome setting for a young "phorester" to ramble through.
I know it's special to at least one other CCBB'er too. HoHo has had the pleasure of completing the hike that circumnavigates Mt. Hood within (mostly) the Mt. Hood Wildnerness. So, hope you enjoy the memories HoHo.
We had not been there recently and were lamenting that in the presence of our kids. This was not entirely without purpose since we've established a "traditional" Christmas present for Mom/Dad. Instead of more "stuff", each year one of the kids assumes "travel agent" status and sets us up with one night at some great location in the Northwest. Split 5 ways it doesn't cost too much per offspring and we enjoy it immensely. We generally add a day or two depending on how far from home and our whims.
Our Christmas 2003 present was a night at Timberline Lodge. We couldn't squeeze it in that winter, but finally got there the end of February this year. I have put some photos on PhotoBucket for those that want to look at more scenery inside and outside the lodge. I'll include a link for that album.
Timberline was dedicated by F.D. Roosevelt in 1937. It was built by the Work Progress Administration (WPA) on public lands of the Mt. Hood National Forest. Here's a link to some info about the WPA if you're inclined to pursue it.
.....I've spent many hours at Timberline Lodge, summer and winter. The last time was in August before my 6.1 mile sprint to Government Camp on my first leg of Hood to Coast. Your photos of Oregon bring back many memories of a joyous time in my life from an area that I find most spirtually warming.
I especially like the first picture with the view out toward Mt Jeff, looking like a mini Mt Hood in the distance. I did the Timberline Trail as a solo backpacking trip way back in August 1983! Now I just need to stay at the lodge itself (back in my student days I could barely afford a cup of coffee there, but fortunately just hanging out in the lobby has always been free!). Thanks.
Probably about 70 degrees, light breeze and an all around beautiful day. Mike studied maps and basked in the sun, I lurked with the camera and took a few snap shots. Fishing was pretty good that day too, but not as good as the prior days…
We were on Brent Lake on an island located where the black arrow points. Nice area with good fishing in the bay that the arrow covers some of and in the narrows to the east of the island.
I showed my wife one of the utensil holder and she made ours. We leave it hanging all night, rain or shine. I didn't think of wrapping it around a tree like that though. Great idea.
...I used an old pair of jeans - cut them just below the pockets and cut open at the front zipper.
Then, I stiched "dividers" in the back pockets for my cooking utensils and I put the eating utensils and other items in the front pockets.
I hook a bungee cord through the front button hole of the jeans, wrap it around a tree near the cooking station, and hook the other end of the bungee through whichever belt loop works to hold it on the tree.
When I take it down, I simply roll it up and wrap the bungee cord around it to keep it tight.
Not very attractive, but it works!
Madl
"He who travels with dry foot, not experience all that canoe country has to offer."
a perfect day in the wilderness from your photo.
Tell about the fishing. I have been going through some major fishing withdrawals lately.
Any fix would be appreciated!!!
Nice pick, but I have a question. That thing you have in the tree holding your cooking utensils. I rented one of those from an outfitter a long time ago, and have been looking to buy one ever since. If that was yours PLEASE tell me where you got it.
Okay guys, here's my story and I'm sticking to it. I stayed 2 nights at Canoecopia with a total of 4 hotel rooms - avoiding the 5th. Your mind might wander trying to figure out how that could happen. As you may know, Nibi was going to have me stay in the hospitality suite at the Clarion (Hotel #1, Room #1) but this was unknown to Darren of Rutabaga who paid for the suite. Darren called our friend J-Stroke who was in the hospital recovering from knee surgery and told him he could stay at the Clarion so he wouldn't have far to walk to get to the venue. I was ever so happy to give up the room to him and took Nibi's room at the Sheraton (Hotel #2, Room #2) since he had to cancel.
I follow my spirit's direction for everything. I get an intuitive signal of what to do, when to do it and where. I'm sure you know what I mean. It was snowing big flakes when I left Minneapolis at 1 pm on Friday but the snow hit the pavement and melted. Going about 80 mph, I was not passing anyone but just keeping up with the flow of traffic. I arrived at 5:30, just before an icy interstate started to slow to 25 mph, and went directly to the Sheraton. As I was being given the key to my room, a woman right next to me started her check in process with another reservation agent. She was told that the hotel had overbooked. They did not have a room for her but they would put her up next door at the Holiday Inn Express for free. She became irate, demanded to speak to the manager and insisted on staying at the Sheraton. I said to my agent that I would take the free room at the Holiday Inn (Hotel #3, Room #3) and gave up my room to the other woman. The lady was happy, the management was happy and I was happy. I don't know about you, but I'm thinking that the universe just provided a second free room for me. Had the timing been off by even 2 minutes, history would have been different. Okie dokie then. I went to the Holiday Inn thinking that the timing was just right for this "set-up" to occur. At Friday nights platyfest, J-stroke and I high-fived, rejoicing about how everything works out.
Day Two
Saturday was blustery and off I went to my first Canoecopia! At days end, I arrived back at the Holiday Inn to rest before dinner. I got on the elevator with a young woman who looked just like Julia Roberts. I followed her off the elevator right to the door of my room. I said "either you have my room or I have yours". I wondered where my things were and she said there was nothing in the room when she arrived earlier. I used the phone to call the front desk. They had some of my things in housekeeping, a few items were missing and some of my clothes had gone unnoticed and were still in the drawers.
The woman who was in my room needed to get ready for the evening so I once again gave up my room and left to get another (Room #4). I retrieved my luggage from housekeeping, went back to "Julia's" room, packed my things and headed to my new room. They said they removed my things because they needed the room and the Sheraton had not told them that my stay was for 2 nights. In addition, they advised me that I needed to pay for the room. My understanding was that my room was paid for, so they had me call the Sheraton. The Sheraton said they would only pay for 1 night but offered to have me come back to the Sheraton at a discount. This would have been Hotel #4, Room #5 and while the game had been much fun to play up to this point, I was tired from a busy day and my ride to dinner was waiting. I politely declined their offer and suggested they call the Holiday Inn and resolve the issue between the two hotels. They said they would leave me a message with their resolution, so I left for dinner.
My things were still in Room #4 when I returned that night. I had not been locked out for the purpose of sending me to the front desk to produce a credit card for payment. I received no message informing me of their resolution. I left the next morning and went to hear Paddle Faster Pastor's (PFP) message about how we each connect to God. I enjoyed him as much as I thought I would! PFP, I have to say that I think I have the connection thing down but I use slightly different verbiage. I call it "follow your spirit without hesitation". I saw it on a bumper sticker once. So maybe it could be said that in part, I figured out how to "connect" via the rear end of a Ford Taurus.
"Be Love" was my mantra of contemplation on my way to Canoecopia. Be love, express love, create more love in the world. I am certain my hotel game was just a game of Be Love that is in harmony with my intent to follow my spirit without hesitation. It is a very good game at that.
You are all quite patient towards me when I philosophize and I thank you. How much easier can it get than to "Be Love" around the folks on this board? It was a wonderful weekend. It was belovely to see you all.
Bearfeet
it sounds like with your "Be Love" contemplation, for all that was going to take place. You are perhaps more on target with your "Be Love" philosophy than you realize, or perhaps you do - that is why you used it. Anyway, I find how many in our society don't understand that Love is something you "be" or "do" not just "feel." You got it going on, Bearfeet. Keep up the search and philosophizing. lol
I enjoy playing with energy. I am a character in a story writing my own script. And I like happy endings.
Sometimes I do what I do because I like to see what happens when the story has a twist. When I go to the movies I most enjoy the ones that take an unexpected turn. Cranky lady expected to get a room by being cranky. That's an old gimmick with a predictable outcome. We were both in the same movie, certainly on the same stage. It occured to me she was in disguise as a cranky lady who was there to give me a free room. She was divinely intended to show up at that moment all cranky like just for the fun of letting me know I live in a perfect world. I'm no hero. I'm just observant.
Once you get the hang of it, I'm not sure why anyone would choose energy that is discordant unless it serves someone else to do so.
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
Here's a report from my snow show trip up the North Kawishiwi river, call it entry point 31 sort of. A few pictures to follow in separate posts.
Saturday, March 5
WOW! It’s 8:00 am and I’m on an airplane from Chicago to Minneapolis. 24 hours ago this trip was nothing more than a fantasy, one of those ‘someday I’d really like to see the BWCA in the winter’ type thoughts. Things changed rapidly though, a little web surfing for no particular reason and a really, really cheap airfare came up, but the rate is only good for tomorrow. Can I possibly put together a trip that fast? Well, the answer was yes. I checked with Silver Rapids lodge about a motel room, checked on the weather, and then checked with a couple of outfitters about trail conditions and snowshoe rental. Piragis was especially helpful with this. I finally came to the decision to go at around 4:00 or so, had the tickets booked online by 4:30, and was on my way to the airport about 13 hours later. Landed in Minneapolis around 10:00, and on the road north in about 10 minutes thanks to Seat 2C, carry on luggage, and a National Car Rental Emerald Club membership. The membership allows you to bypass the rental counter, just walk out to the Emerald Club aisle, pick whatever car you want, and pretty much drive off.
The drive up to Ely was very uneventful. I’m kind of surprised at the lack of snow on the ground around Minneapolis, but the ground got gradually whiter as I traveled north and the drive from Virginia to Ely proved there was plenty of snow on the ground. I arrived in Ely around 2:00 and stopped over at Piragis to rent the snowshoes and get some more information and then headed over the Silver Rapids motel.
My intention for my hike tomorrow is walk to the North Kawishiwi river entry point and then east up the river to the waterfall along the Murphys portage. The problem is where to get onto the lake to do so. My thought was to start at Timber Trails lodge on Farm Lake. The folks at Piragis suggested I also check out the far end of South Farm Lake. They thought there might be a dogsled trail beginning at that point as well as a parking area. So after a quick change of clothes at the motel, I drove down the road to check out my options. Both were pretty viable options but both had a long walk to get to the entry point. I parked at the South Farm area and hiked out onto the ice a bit, to check out just how far it would be across the lake as well as try out the snowshoes, seeing as I’d never used a pair before. There was indeed a dogsled trail that went out onto this narrow bay at the south end of the lake. I hiked out about a half mile or so to see where the tracks went. I needed them to go directly across the lake and then up and over the land between South Farm and the river. I got out onto the main lake and it looked like the tracks went that way, but at this point I was unwilling to cross all of South Farm to find out so I turned around and headed back. The snow shoes were easy to get used to, but it was just as easy without them if I stayed on the dogsled trail. Back at the car I chatted with an ice fisherman that was about to head out onto the lake and thought about any other options that I may have to shorten the length of this hike. The one idea that kept coming back to me was the possibility of getting to Pickerel Lake and then coming back down to the river by using a creek on the east side of Pickerel. The creek is on the map but I had never found it during my summer canoe trips on the lake. I went back to Piragis and bought the Fisher Map, why I didn't bring mine from home I'll never know. The map proved my suspicions that there was a significant distance savings by using Pickerel so I headed out down the Fernberg Trail towards the road to Pickerel Lake. I was worried that the road, which would be flattered if I referred to it as a one lane gravel path, wouldn’t be open in the winter, but it was indeed plowed most of the way to the lake. The plowed portion ended about a half mile from where I could normally park in the summer and was actually pretty cool. It was just barely wide enough to fit the car down, was snow covered, and had huge walls of plowed snow on each side. It was kind of like driving down a bobsled track. I walked down the unplowed portion of the road and then the portage down to the lake along snowmobile tracks and noticed a couple of grouse kills and one deer kill, with a leftover, uneaten hoof along the way, and came out on the ice. There were plenty of packed snowmobile and dogsled trails to follow, it looks like I found my entry point for the morning.
As the sun was setting beautifully, I headed back to the motel, being especially careful for deer. I had always laughed at those signs along the Fernberg that caution about a deer wintering area, but good grief, the deer are everywhere and nobody ever taught them about looking both ways before crossing the street. I got my pack together for the morning, figured out how to lash my snow shoes to it, and headed to the lodge for dinner. Things were pretty slow in the lodge, I chatted with the owner, his full time resident employee Dave whom I’ve known for years, and a few folks that live on White Iron Lake that stopped by and then headed back to the room for the evening. I had a very restless night, anything from the heat turning on in the room to a cell phone ringing in the room next to mine, to snowmobiles arriving at midnight and 2:30 kept me from sleeping very well.
Sunday, March 6
I finally got going around 8:45 this morning and was to the trailhead by around 9:00. It’s already above freezing, the sun is bright, the sky is blue, and there is very little wind, a beautiful day in the BWCA. It didn’t take long and I was headed east on Pickerel Lake, following a snowmobile track. Once out of the forest and on the lake inthe bright sun, I had to get rid of a few layers including my hat and gloves. All the tracks seemed to converge at the very east end of the lake. I checked my map and began wondering if, perhaps, there was a trail through the woods that would connect up with the river on the other side so I hiked on past the creek that went south towards the river and kept following the trail. The trail went though the woods a little bit and then onto a frozen creek and turned north. It was very quiet, I couldn’t hear anything at all, no wind, no wildlife, no mechanized sounds, nothing except the sound of my walking. A couple of times I thought I heard the drumming of grouse wings, but having never heard them before, wasn’t quite sure. I also thought I heard a wolf pack howling. Do wolves howl during the day? I followed the trail for awhile and came to the conclusion that the trail was going to follow the creek all the way to Greenstone Lake instead of going up and over the hillside and onto the river. This would take me quite a bit north of my destination. There is a portage from Greenstone back to the river but it may or may not be broken and was down a very steep incline. If I had more time it would have been a really cool loop route. This probably took me 45 minutes, but if the short cut would have panned out it would have been worth it. I got back on my original route, this creek was open and flowing and the snow along the creek was really deep but still well packed. The open creek provided a few nice pictures and then some hazards as it wound it’s way through a marshy area but eventually I got out on the river in a bay between the Deadmans portage and the Haystack rocks. I was basically directly north of the portage to Clear Lake. I headed over to the Deadmans portage first for a few pictures and a break and then strapped on the snowshoes for the first time today and broke trail up river on the now virgin snow. What a treat to be the first person through this area in maybe months. As I neared the first campsite and portage on the river, there was some open water to get around and I was down to carrying my coat and working up a sweat. I took a break at this portage and thought that I should have brought a fishing pole with, this is a great spot for bass in the summer and I could have casted into the open water. After I got going again I found that the walking was getting more and more difficult. The snow was so soft by now that it was sticking and accumulating to the metal shoes and making them really heavy. I abandoned wearing the snowshoes at this point and hiked to and over the next portage with quite a bit of difficulty. It was on the other side of that portage that I found a dogsled track that had been following the south shoreline for most of my route. It was like walking on a concrete sidewalk compared to what I had been suffering through for the last hour or so and made the rest of the walk to the 210 rod portage known as the Murphys portage pretty easy going. I checked on the portage to Greenstone while on this trail and saw that it was not broken, so choosing the route I had was probably for the best. Once at the Murphys portage, I drained my remaining Gatorade and built a small fire to melt some snow for water and had some lunch. Fires certainly aren’t the most efficient way to melt snow for water, you end up getting ashes in the water and it tastes like smoke. I then hiked up the portage about one third of the way, still following the dogsled track, to the small pond between two sets of rapids. On the other side of that pond is a beautiful waterfall that I wanted to photograph. The shoreline was very deep, very soft snow and most of the water was open due to the flowing water, so I skirted the edge of the shore as much as possible and then burrowed through waist deep snow (left the snow shoes at the other end of the portage) to get the pictures of the falls I wanted.
With the soft snow, warm temperatures, and the waist deep drifts to get to the waterfall, I was pretty pooped out already and had the long walk back yet. I hoped to follow the dogsled track as far as I could to save as much energy as possible. The track lasted all the way back to the Haystack rocks, then it was up to me to make my own trail back to the creek to Pickerel. Cutting trail was pretty tough, but I made it back to the creek only to find that the snow along the creek had really softened up and I was punching through up past my knees so I had to stop and get the snowshoes back on. Putting on snowshoes is kind of difficult when your feet are 2 feet under the snow. I rested the shoe on the snow and pulled my foot up out of the snow and strapped in, then did the same with the other foot, hoping the first shoe would support all of my weight during this whole exercise. It worked after a few tries, but it’s kind of like trying to put on a shoe that’s on a balance bean while you’re standing on the floor. This was a pretty comical event and I was real glad to be alone in the wilderness because there were a few really graceful falls before I accomplished this feat. Once I got them on, though, the trail was pretty easy going although the creek had gotten a little wider. Once off the trail and onto Pickerel Lake, the shoes began to pick up the snow again so I opted to walk without them. Even the snowmobile tracks were soft now and if felt like walking on a beach with really loose sand. As I came around the point off the creek, I spotted my first and only people or wildlife at all for that matter of the day down at the far end of the lake walking their dogs. By the time I got there they were long gone. The weather made a drastic change just as I got to the portage off the lake, it clouded up, cooled off, and a strong wind came out of the east. It stayed pretty close to the freezing mark Saturday night, was 44 on the bank in Ely Sunday afternoon, and 9 when I went past the next morning. That is quite a change. The uphill portage was a chore with sore, tired legs as was the walk down the road back to the car but I finally got back to the car and headed into town to return my snow shoes before Piragis closed. Then it was back to the motel for a hot shower, some aspirin, and drying out all my equipment. Dinner was much less formal, just a Subway sandwich, and then a slow evening in the motel.
Monday, March 7
As I mentioned above, the weather really changed just as I got off the ice. It was now 9 degrees with a strong north wind and we got about an inch of snow overnight so I got moving earlier than planned as I figured the drive back to Minneapolis was going to take a little longer. A few pictures around the resort first and then I headed out over the snow covered roads. Highway 169 was pretty nasty, Trader Craig on WELY warned of it a few times during his radio show, and Highway 53 wasn’t much better. The road was clear enough to get one side of the car on dry pavement, but the other wheels were on solid ice all the way to Cloquet. Once on Interstate 35 everything cleared up and I got to the airport on time. One note of caution for anyone that rents a car, there aren’t many gas stations right near the airport, you’ll need to fill that rental a few miles away. The walk through the airport was pretty painful with sore leg muscles that just sat in a car for 4 hours, but once to the gate the rest of the trip home went smoothly.
Thoughts
This was a really fun trip, although I certainly didn’t expect the level of effort it took to hike that distance. Had I started at Farm or South Farm, I don’t think I would have made it to that waterfall. I have wanted to see the BWCA in the winter for a few years now but never imagined I would actually make the trip. The object of the trip was the waterfall, and the picture is already on my wall next to pictures of the same falls in the summer and autumn. The weather was great, too great. I never thought I would want it to be colder in Minnesota than it actually was, but the hike would have been much easier had the weather been 10 or 15 degrees cooler. I should have brought that fishing pole though, just for the fun of making a few casts.
Why? For the thrilling thunder of rapids, the mournful wailing of loons, and the lure of an untrammeled forest that leads to a fishing hole.
I was in Fleet Farm this weekend and found they handle 55 gal heavy duty garbage bags- 3 mil. Much heavier than the normal 0.6 to 1.2 mil garbage bags but not quite as heavy as the 4 to 6 mil pack liner bags at the outfitters. You get 10 bags for around $5.85. Needless to say, a 55 gal bag will line most packs.
... when you first started posting, I was wondering if Hawkeye was making a typo. I was gradually realizing that you were 2 different individuals.... Now I know for sure. or, do I?
Larry
To really appreciate the wilderness, one must pay attention to the small things as well as the grandiose.
WE've been using the Fleet Farm 3 mil bags for a few years now. Use a new one for each trip and pack an extra in the bottom of the pack. No failure yet. Check each day for tiny holes. Duct tape them. I put my pack inside one of these bags at night so it's dry in the AM.
I redundantly bag my food by the item and by the meal. Breakfast, lunch, and supper meals are put in zippered nylon bags for organization. These are put inside a lined food pack. At night when I put my food pack in the woods, off trail, away from camp, etc, the entire food pack is placed inside one last 3 mil bag - to keep it dry and as one last line of defense against escaping smells. This process isn't all that labor intensive, but it does reinforce the cleanliness ethic around camp.
I have used the 6 mil bags but find the 3 mil bags a better value and they work.
I'm looking for a pack shroud for my backpacking pack. I'm too cheap to drop the $30+ for a 'real' one when all it is essentially just a garbage bag. I was going to stop by Fleet Farm sometime anyways... I'll just add this to my list! Thanks!
I have taped too many holes. Not sure where they come from but they're there. I sew up a box style liner that is as large or larger than the pack that it is made to fit. I make them extra tall as to purge the air out and fold over to tie. All seams are sealed to make a waterproof liner. Most pack liner holes seem to come from abrasion. The ripstop nylon helps curb this problem.
I've never had to do anything but I've only been using them for four seasons. They are made from coated nylon such as tent fly or floor mat'l. Kind of hard to wear the coating off that when it's in the pack. I put the coated side out so items in the pack won't wear through.
The first turkeys to gobble on the roost two days ago.
Yesterday the red oaks that hold their leaves all winter started to slip them loose, but slowly.
Central Wis.
TK
This is one I have not seen. It made me curious enough to look it up - it supposedly does occur in my neighborhood, but it must be uncommon here. Looks like one tough little plant with its roots wrapped around that rock. I hope I can find it sometime soon. It's a good reminder that I should get out into the woods this coming weekend to see if the snow trillium are blooming. Thanks for the photo!
Trillium nivale is commonly called Snow Trillium or Dwarf White Trillium. As both common names imply, it blooms early, often when snow is still on the ground, and it is a small plant. The plant is 2 to 6 inches high. The flowers have 3 white petals and you'll often see a whorl of 3 leaves on the stem.
Unfortuately for you, Rainy, the range of the plant does not extend into the UP.
Search where the trees are large, and the soil is rich in humus. I've usually found them on the tops of hills, or the slopes just below the hilltop. Of course, south and west facing slopes will have plants that flower before north or east facing slopes.
A closer look at the photo shows what I thought were roots wrapped around a rock are, in fact, the veins on the underside of a dead leaf. Damn middle-aged eyes are playing tricks on me again!
uh yeah, right, I am not PATIENTLY waiting at all! Have cabin fever, serious case. The only sign that spring might decide to head our way is a bit of gravel showing on the driveway.
My sister has blackbirds at her place 100 miles south of here, perhaps they won't mind heading this way through a few snow flurries.
showed up here in S. Wis on the same day - Sun March 6, when it got up to 58°. Saw an early blue bird last weekend. Pheasants have been very actively pursueing each other for the last week, and turkeys are out and about.
When I worked at the ER some years back - we had a fellow come in with a stand tall that had been going for 24 hours. Not sure what brought it on, but apparantly it had become quite painful.
Thanks to the interstate highway system, it is now possible to travel across the country from coast to coast without seeing anything.
The day was great. A bit windy at times. But on Hoseshoe there are many out of the way spots.
Fishing was poor, with all the squall lines the day before the weather was too unsettled for the fish it seemed.
Seen A cow and bull moose at the end of the north east west arm just prior to Briam and I meeting Nibi in that little cove just west of the Caribou lake portage.
This is a picture taken on day 3 of our 2001 trip, and shows Jim Leathrum and Jim, Jr. as we headed west. I believe that this is at the west end of Big Sag, but could be Swamp Lake. I know for certain that it was our last few hours of nice weather.
If you are the rugged type you might be interested in the Ouyward Bound school established here last year. It is a survival training type school with emphasis on physical fitness and woods lore. If correctly informed, there is only one other school like it in the United States. Last year registration was confined to boys only but this year girls will be given an opportunity to enroll. Graduation from the school is completed when a student successfully emerges from the wilderness after a 48-hour period of being alone without food and only a knife as a tool or weapon.
Another unique school established here some few years ago by the Associated Colleges of the Midwest is the campus in the wilderness at the Wilderness Research Center on Basswood Lake. Regulary academic courses are presented and college credits are earned upon successful completion of the courses. it is a co-educational school and the courses are taught by professors from the colleges that make up the organization. In addition to the college courses, the students have the opportunity to go fishing and swimming on Basswood and nearby lakes, canoeing, hiking, exploring and participate in group activities.
Bill Zup reports a full house at his Curtain Falls Fishing Camp on Crooked Lake and we expect to have some good action stories for next weeks issue.
I tried a jar of salsa for my first attempt. Put the salsa on some freezer paper so it wouldn't go through the tray Thursday evening. On Friday I took it off when I got home from work about 5. Seemed almost krispy. Put it back in the jar it came in until Saturday to show my son when he came home for the weekend. We filled the jar with water and let it set, shaking it every now and then. Seem to take 2 days to turn back into salsa again. Did I dry it to long or why would it take so long to rehydrate? How should it look if it is dried enough? Was hoping to do a couple of jars of salsa and spaghetti sauce for our trip, but my first attempt didn't seem to work very well.
...Spaghetti sauce below and if it turned out crispy, it was too long. When I did mine a few years ago I got advice from Beaglefur to get it like a fruit roll-up.
When it got to that consistency, I took it out of the dehydrator, tore it into small pieces, and put it in a GALLON bag (while it woud easily fit in a smaller bag, when you go to rehydrate it you'll need the extra room for water). Should come back to it previous "spaghetti sauce-like" state in approximately 3 to 5 hours if I remember correctly. Tasted VERY GOOD with noodles and a garlic pan bread!
Madl
"He who travels with dry foot, not experience all that canoe country has to offer."
As mentioned sauce should be dried to fruit leather consistancey or maybe slightly drier and broken into pieces and placed in plastic bags (I just use the zip lock). Covered with boiling water and simmered it should re-hydrate in 15 minutes. I have done spagetti by just dumping noodles and sauce in pan and covering with boiling water and simmering. I have never tried salsa, but I would try re-hydrating with boiling water and then let cool. On the move you can rehdrate by putting it in a sealable thermo travel mug with boiling water, or a bottle which is then stuck into the middle of your sleeping bag while in the stuff sack for insulation. This works well for rehydrating chili in 1/2 hour or less and it stays hot for a couple of hours.
I will give it another try and not leave it in so long. I think Cub has spaghetti sauce on sale this week. So I will give that a try. Thanks for the help.
Fresh tomatos from the garden and also a batch of mushrooms once in a while. They both do wonderful as soup thickeners and the "tomato powder" is a great flavor enhancer.
The mushrooms once dried you just rub them in your hands together and "powder" them into the soup and you've got a Maaaahhvelous flavor booster. Same with the tomatos.
Bananas are fussy, a lot more mess than they're worth. Pears and apples as mentioned in an earlier post are fantastic for trail snacks but bulky for that.
Tim Eastman
"If you are going to lead by example,..
first be an example worth following"
Did you peel them before you dried them? All of the garden tomatoes I tried always came out bitter and after talking to someone they said it was from the skin. I didn't want to bother peeling them so I just gave up. It seemed to easy to just go and buy tomato powder.
If you're talking of a Canoecopia type event, I have never seen one, atleast not one that rivals Canoecopia. Most of the northern IL folks just head to CC. We have held a platyfest here, which we had 6 attendees one of which was MNGreen from MN. It was nice to sit and talk of trips etc and enjoy a beverage or 3. I was thinking of having one soon, but, with UIR coming up, figured that would be the place to get together. If there is interest in getting together for an evening, let me know, I'm always game. I'm in the western burbs, so pretty easy for me to get around.
I'm in good old Schaumburg, IL and would love to meet you guys (since I wasn't able to at Canoecopia) to hear about your trips - both past and future and share some libations.
Madl
"He who travels with dry foot, not experience all that canoe country has to offer."
It doesn't take much. Just post an invite and call a restaurant.
Here - copy and paste this invite and fill in your details :
This is a invitation to the CCBB (Pittsburgh) Platyfest being held at the North Park Lounge in Cranberry, Pa. . . . Saturday, March 5th. 6 PM - 9 PM.
North Park Lounge is located on Rt 19 within easy access of I-79 and I-76 (Pa. Turnpike). There are several hotels in the immediate area (email me for a complete list). The social agenda is to meet in the Deck House around 6 o'clock where we will have a meal, drinks, etc. followed by a couple hours of chatting/visiting. Bring your stories, scrapbooks, pictures, maps, etc.
North Park Lounge offers various buffet selections that with tax and tip (which is added to your bill) will be approximately $20 a person. They run a cash bar for drinks. Although they will bill everyone separately for meals, they would prefer that the meals be on one check - so we will most probably collect for the meal.
For those new to the CCBB or terminology :
What's BWCA ? Boundary Waters Canoe Area in northeastern Minnesota aka "BW".
What's Quetico ? Quetico Provincial Park in Ontario, Canad. aka "Q".
What's a Platyfest ? The term "platy" comes from Platypus Hydration backpacks used by many to tote their favorite beverage into the BWCA/Quetico Parks. Hence "grap a platy", "have a platy" etc. We have taken the phrase and applied it to festive gatherings outside of the BW/Q. Hence "platy" + "festive" = " Platyfest "!
What's CCBB ? Canoe Country Bulletin Bulletin is a message board ( http://www.network54.com/Forum/9927 ) from the Canoe Country web site. This forum was established to inform and facilitate discussion about the BWCA and Quetico.
Hopefully i've covered most everything, but in the event anyone still has any questions, email me.
Gary Rauch aka FishFanatic
This should help you get started. Remember if you want something done - do it yourself. We ended up getting 22 persons at our platyfest.
I'd be willing to organize a get-together here, there are many places to paddle in Menominee River Country and there are hotels, campgrounds and this big, woodsy area around my house to camp in. Shuttles are available too.
If anyone is interested in heading up this way (Iron Mountain, MI 100 miles north of Green Bay, WI) for a weekend gathering, let me know and we can start looking at dates.
Possible waters to paddle include Gene's Pond (big impoundment) with a Heron rookery, the Menominee River, the Brule River (border river--not the Bois Brule), Pine River, Michigammee flowage, and others. We are also just 1 1/2 hours from Sylvania Wilderness.
Will Raincloud's Rendevous III have any takers?
I'd love to make the UIR trip but with limited vacation I'm forced to save it for my May BWCA trip.
I usually make it to clark lake a couple of times a summer and the day use picnic area is never crowded (the $5 day use fee keeps some away) every one goes for the overnight remote campsites leaving the day use area relatively untouched. This would be a great place for a U.P. get together although I normally don't attend organized fun events, it is less than an hour and a half east of me. they also have a nice (also little used) pavillion etc. Clark Lake is crystal clear, nice sand beaches and no motors. I would check this out if in the area. The visitor center in Watersmeet is also a nice stop.
This would be an excellent place for a get-together. I think for paddling we'd have to split up but there is still much to enjoy there and in the area as well. The forest of Sylvania is very unique and to me a "must see".
I took my wicker seats off to mount my new aluminum backs, and threw ALL the hardware in the same Jar..........fortunately I realized this when I started on the second seat. I believe I have the hardware right for the front seat, but.....on the back, the support dowels for the seat are two different sizes.
My question.......Do the shorter dowels go in front, or in the back......
I think the front, but for some reason, it just does not look right.
Can't guarantee it, but straight from the seat back instructions (online):
Optional Mounting
Some people like to raise the front edge of a fixed bench seat. Take out the front mounting bolts and add 1/4 to 3/8 inch of washers between the wood and mounting plate.
I think that having the shorter dowels up front would be just like shimming with washers. If the dowels are < 1/2" different in length, I think that will work.
If I understand the question, or should I say the set up, the longer dowels are in front. But let me make sure I understand. By "dowels" you mean the spacers that the bolt runs through, correct? The "dowels" have a hole in them. Gunwale/spacer (dowel)/seat with bolt running through the three of them, right?
If so, the longer space means the seat is lower. Since you want the front edge of the seat 1/2" - 3/4" lower than the back, the longer space is on the front edge of the seat. The shorter spacer is the back.
I talked to Old Town after seeing Bannock's and Hoz's post.....They said the short ones are in the front..........
The kicker is I really cannot visualize it right because the canoe is upside down, on the rack in my garage. Maybe I need to take it out tonight, and check it .
I may not be right after hearing Hoz's explaination and now you say Old Town, too.
My thought process, and the way I do it on my own canoes, is the long spacers for the front edge of the seat and the short spacers for the back edge of the seat. That is to lower the front edge of the seat. The front edge is lower so that I'm leaning foward a bit for paddling and so the seat can more comfortably be used as a kneeling thwart when I kneel.
My assumption is that the gunnels are level where the seats hang. And I had believed that my assumptions were true. Now after what Hoz has said, I'm questioning my belief. Perhaps they are not. Perhaps the bow seat is level because it is closer to the middle, while the stern seat is not level because its backside is closer to the upswept end.
I'm confused, too. Let me know which way you do it and if it seems right.
after re reading my post I am not so sure of my reply either. Long in front or back? On a straight gunnel I'd say in front to lower the forward edge. On the upswept end of the stern seat long in back to level the seat.
How's that?
solo canoes and single blades...the way it should be.
On the stern seat, the long spacers go in the back. The seat is level, but the ends are recurved, and the seat is in the upswept area.
For the bow, I can't be certain. I have a prototype paraplegic seat in the bow that doesn't use the spacers. Near as I can tell, the spacers should be the same length, since the gunwale is fairly flat in that area. May be a very slight upsweep, so if there is any difference in spacers (which I tend to doubt at this point), I'd still put the longer ones nearer the end (in this case, the front).
I been sittin here waitin fer the answers from the answerees...I have my own theories and correct answers from past experience, but it is good to get a second opinion!
Geo is talking about an Old Town/Mad River style mount - where the seats hang from the gunwales via long tubes with screws through the center.
The instructions you referenced are talking about a Wenonah style bench seat since they are set on an L-shaped plate that is inserted into the space between the gunwale and the hull. It talks about putting spacers between the wood and the plate to raise the front edge - that would be counter-intuitive in a seat hung from dowels. (By the way, I've never heard of anyone raising the front edge of a seat except a paraplegic who needs the backwards lean to maintain balance).
Now that makes more sense. I was thinking of the "hanging-from-the-gunnels" set-up.
I have a couple of wenonahs, too, and so am familiar with the bracket set up as well. However, in order to lower the seat on my wenonah Sandpiper, I have the seat hanging underneath the bracket (rather than sitting on top of it). Oh! I also have a 3/4" spacer between the bracket and the seat on the front edge to slightly tip the seat forward.
I think I finally have the O.k. to go ahead and get a dehydrator, but don't even know what to start looking for. I'm thinking something very basic because I already have a smoker for jerky. I'm thinking something for fruits, sauces, hamburger, etc. Thanks for any suggestions.
American Harvest dehydrator. Get the one with the dryer at the the top. That way if something leaks it won't go into the mechanical stuff. I also get the leather making trays for soups (some have just used plastic wrap) and similar things. Also make sure you get the one with a temperature gage. I got mine on sale at Walmart. Hope this helps
and have been using it for the last 15 years it works well but I'm ready for something that has a larger capacity. I'm leaning towards the Excalibur the fan is in the rear of the unit and the trays are square as apposed to round. Whatever dryer you choose be sure that it has a thermostat as Reddcin suggested.
Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road.”
-Bob Marshall
...vote for the American Harvest. Inexpensive and efficient.
I've done jerky, fruit and even spaghetti sauce following the advice of Beaglefur (worked like a champ and rehydrated with all the flavor of the original!)
Madl
"He who travels with dry foot, not experience all that canoe country has to offer."
recipe. And instructions. All I have ever used is my dehydrator, but the seasoning mix I've been getting from Cabelas has been discontinued. I have one of those cheap dehydrators from Kmart (Mr. Coffee) and it works just fine.
All I usually do is find something in the store for my brine. Teriake, soy sauce, anything that will give a little flavor, but have a fairly high salt content. Oh, I have used some good (cheep)brines that you can find at Fleet Farm, or cub. Again, they usually have a pretty high salt content. The beuty of using a smoker for meat is the inherant taste you get from the wood chips you're smoking. A friend of mine makes some pretty mean jerky in the oven with a few drops of liquid smoke in his brine.
Bought it 25 years ago and it's still going strong. It's a lot more expensive than the Walmart variety, but it depends on how much you're going to use it. Ours has paid for itself many times over. My suggestion is to borrow one if you know of someone who has one, try it out and decide what features are going to be important. Make sure it has a fan to circulate the air so food will dry evenly.
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
How long/tough is the portage from the parking lot on the northside of beaverhouse to the water....We are getting dropped off at this parking area by an outfitter and was just curious where it is relative to the Quetico lake portage and how tough the 1st portage would be, thanks for the input.
It is an easy portage (state park trail easy). Depending on water levels there are two put ins into the lake. The second one is less muddy and I think easier.
The portage is very easy. There can be alot of congestion as others drop off at the point closest to the portage. You can save yourself some time if you pick up your permit ahead of time. It will save you a paddle across to the Ranger station. Be sure you check on the hours of operation ot the ranger station. Get there too early and they are closed. Last year it was $13.00/day per person. Seemed a bit steep to me bu then I have been accused of being a bit "thrifty" at times.
How do you pick up a permit early (where, when)? I thought you had to go to the Ranger station on Beaverhouse Lake. ( this is my first time going in here) Thanks, Roger
Using Canoe Canada outfitters out of Atikokan....I guess they drive you in a truck from their place to the Beaverhouse parking area and they are procuring the permits for us ahead of time so we will be ready to roll when we hit the water....I dont have any experience doing it this way yet as we have always been flown into beaverhouse from Crane Lake.
On a side note, my life has been pretty busy with a crawling baby around So If your bio doesn't get put in right away it will Sometimes it might take 2 or 3 weeks for me to get to them all. No need to email your bio 3 times And remember send them to ccbbbio@yahoo.com not my email. I get enough email as it is Thanks and enjoy!!
Saturday morning was cloudy so I guessed my best photo ops would be along the open water areas. I carried my camp chair down to the Boot Lake end of the portage and made myself comfortable waiting for light conditions to improve. After about an hour it became variably cloudy. I stayed for a second hour or so and ate lunch.
By mid-day the light was so bright shades were essential. Suddenly caught a flash of dark in my peripheral vision. Danged if it wasn’t a black ping-pong ball! A rare sight, especially in the wild.
Incredible pictures. The ping-pong ball is great. I agree it is rare to see one of those up there, especially this time of year before migration really begins.
But seriously, I think you could get a one-man show in a Chelsea gallery in New York with a series of those.
Actually it's sprayed black with Rust-oleum non-reflective camo paint. It appears in a number of off-topic pictures. I need to find me a strictly OT bulletin board. I guess it snuck along in my gadget bag. [Bad ball! Stay!]
Canoe and Kayak Rentals run $20 per day from the Randy's Bluffton Store and include paddles and life jackets.
Each participant will be responsible for reserving his/her own canoe. Lunches are available at the Bluffton Store at an extra charge or you can pack your own.
Shuttling is available through the Bluffton Store or we may do it on our own.
Campsites along the river (non-electric) are $10.00 per night; Electrical sites are $12.50 per night. Flush toilets and showers are available on the upper level near the electrical sites; pit-pots are available on the riverfront.
For our gathering:
Bring food for yourselves or something to share at the potluck. Last year most people fixed their own meals on Friday night, and we had a group potluck on Saturday night. We’re open to having potluck both nights if you want.
If you have a screen shelter or free standing canopy, bring it! They really came in handy with the rain last year.
Bring whatever kind of stove(s) you have. Coleman 2-burners worked great for the potluck so we could heat everything up quickly.
Swap meet—bring your old gear to sell/give away and check out bargains offered by the others. What a great way to recycle all that extra camping equipment we don’t use any more!
Bring fishing gear and your Iowa fishing license if you want.
If you play a musical instrument, bring it! There’s always more room in the CCBB band! We can always use the electrical outlets in the camping area for a bass guitar! Oh, wow! Those rock walls across the river will create a perfect amphitheatre.
Bring your children! This is a family event; we want everyone to have a good time.
Pray for nice weather and good water levels. Last year we started at Kendallville and paddled down to the campground. I have heard that the area below Decorah is real nice, too, so if there is interest, that might be another alternative.
E-mail me, so we can create a list of participants and have an idea of how many we’ll have. Maps and directions will be posted soon. Did I forget anything???
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
The Iowa fishing license may need the trout stamp. There are shorter distances that can be paddled if the 6-8 hour Kendalville part is too long. If the water level is less than 3.5 feet at the gauge the limestone is going to scratch the boats a lot and require some walking. I can't locate the gauge link but CanoePam may have it.
Sorry to miss this year, especially Mike's contribution to breakfast on Sunday. That may be the best potluck of all.
The Iowa fishing license may need the trout stamp. There are shorter distances that can be paddled if the 6-8 hour Kendalville part is too long. If the water level is less than 3.5 feet at the gauge the limestone is going to scratch the boats a lot and require some walking. I can't locate the gauge link but CanoePam may have it.
Sorry to miss this year, especially Mike's contribution to breakfast on Sunday. That may be the best potluck of all.
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
I recommend you bookmark this site. 3.5 is ok, 3.3 is what it was last year (a LONG trip at that water level). Last year we put in below Kendallville because of the water level and it still took 5 (for the fast ones) to 7 hours (probably even longer for Nibi Mocs and his camera ). I've done the same trip at 3.4 and it was ok, not great, but ok. Took about 5 hours.
The best thing would be a nice rain storm the week before the trip. It takes about that long for the rain water to hit the springs that are the primary source of the river. Too much rain too close to the date and the river is suitable for only more advanced paddlers; it gets a lot of strainers after a heavy rain.
My Dad, sister, and I will be there again this year. Let's pray for dry weather during the weekend, but for higher river levels than last yesr. Looking forward to another fun event,
A strainer is a tree which has fallen into the river and affects the current. After a lot of rain, some of leaning trees along the banks will plunge into the river as the banks erode. This happened last year when the current was higher (in June) and we went canoeing with Canoepam and her church group. Her pastor was in front of us and I watched as the "sweeper" sucked them into its grasp and flipped them over. We were about to follow in their tracks until I grabbed an overhanging branch to stablize us. Fortunately the water wasn't deep there, but I'm sure it wasn't real warm. Canoepam had made sure that everyone packed a change of clothes in dry bags, and I'm sure that couple appreciated having done that. Always a good plan!
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
strainers can be all sorts of things...end result is the same... you can get caught in it and drowned in short order...especially if you are into it and get pinned under water. the boat is secondary in importance.
be careful...lm
STRAINER. Brush or trees which have fallen into a river, usually on the outside of a bend. Current may sweep through, but the obstruction will stop a craft. Can be deadly.
They do not define SWEEPER, but my understanding (I'm no expert) is that a sweeper is a tree that is leaning out over the water, but is above the water line. The current can pin a canoe against the tree, broadside. The end result is usually a rollover.
This happened to friends of ours just above a small rapids on the Misikow River just before it meets the Albany. They sat pinned against the tree for over a minute, trying to escape. Dave managed to spit out "and now we are going over" just before they dumped. They went down the rapids with their canoe and gear, and when Yvon popped up (fortunately wearing a PFD), she looked hilarious with her mosquito net covering her head. Fortunately, no one was hurt, most of the gear floated and was recovered, but fishing gear was lost.
It was the scariest experience I have ever had. I had my little Pack solo on a river that was too high. Just as I launched I bumped a hidden bridge abutment and dumped. I was swept into a strainer with my head just at the water line. There wasn't enough air to really breath, just frothy bubbles. I decided to dive under the tree and I eventually cleared the strainer and made it to shore. I was shaking so hard with fear and shock I could hardly walk. My poor boat was caught, but we eventually pulled it free. Good thing it's ABS; you can't hardly see the crease it had!
Going under the tree was the wrong thing to do, and I was just lucky. What I have since learned is that when approaching a strainer when you're in the water you should swim extremely aggressively to go over it, not go under it. I got to practice doing this in an American Red Cross moving water class, and I finally got my confidence back.
There are two main things that can kill you on Iowa rivers: low-head dams and strainers. Be aware and know that additional maneuvering skills are required on rivers.
from years of swimming,snorkeing(diving) in rivers you learn that many strainers,limbs ,rocks, steel posts,rods ...lots of scary things are not apparent from above the surface....they are all very dangerous(above and below) epecially if you only have a lung full of air to get yourself to safety.
related story: on a river trip.. kayaks and canoes on a fast twisty river in west fla., a solo ww type kayaker approached a log..a pullover to us canoers...she chose to roll under it!... without knowing anything about what was there!...she made it...lucky..had there been an obstruction and it caught her and she'd been dead before help could have reached her. scared me bad!...lm
CanoePam was right on about going over a strainer if there is no avoiding. I luckily have never had a close encounter with a strainer but the back ferry is one of the tools to avoid them and probably should be an obligatory skill when traveling smaller rivers with strainers.
As you approach a strainer keep a maximum possible distance. You may even want to walk the canoe on the opposite shore if the current is strong. The problem occurs when you get caught against the branches. Instinct tells us to push away from it, but the current is pushing against the bottom of the canoe and when we push from a higher angle, we flip the canoe and may get sent by the current into the underwater branches and held there by the current. The water doesn't have to be deep to hold us in it's grip.
Better if you get held against a strainer to climb on top of the branches and kick the canoe free, then scramble to the bank and try to catch it if you are alone.
I don't want to frighten anyone about stream paddling, but knowledge is powerful.
in southern paddling environs...those branches and limbs that you are caught in ? that's where the biggest healthiest poison ivy in the world grows!,and the aquatic plants in a strainer are where the water moccasins choose to relax!...but a plus...you sometimes find goodies(paddles etc) in them...lm
Was that a water moccasin on that branch on our Suwanee trip together? Cool snake!
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
you had ort to know that southerners call all watersnakes moccasins!...that one was a banded watersnake if i recollect correctly. hold him while i check for head shape,pupil shapes, and pits! hoho...lm
Not much time this year for a BWCA trip, but I need to get up there at least once. I'm thinking about going in May 27 and coming out May 30. That will only give us 3 nights so we need a short trip. I like to fish so we can't go to far as we need a lot of time to fish. I wouldn't mind, actually might prefer base camping somewhere and taking a couple of day trips from there. Anybody have any ideas of a cool area we could go? I thought about entry point 55, take a launch across Sag and stay at Red Rock Lake? Or entry point 57 Magnetic Lake, not sure where I would go from there. Or entry point 36 Hogcreek, maybe work toward Isabella.
1. Clearwater to Caribou or Little Caribou to Base Camp. Easy in and great smally and northern fishing. Day trip to Johnson Falls, Border Route Trail, and other great fishing lakes.
2. Seagull to Ogishkemuncie (about 4 hours) BEAUTIFUL! Or don't go as far and base on Jasper or even Alpine. Day trip to Red Rock, etc.
3. Poplar to Vista (about 4 hours) Great fishing and wildlife. Or don't go as far and base on Horseshoe or Caribou there. Well traveled portages, very easy.
Steve, thanks for the trip ideas. I was up around Vista, Caribou, Clearwater a few years ago, we had terrible weather all week, but it is a beautiful area, and I think we saw 9 or 10 moose on that trip. Might be time to revisit the area. Thanks for the ideas guys.
I made my first BW trip early June last year to Gaskin throgh the Poplar entry point.... only about 4 hours travel and the area is awesome. We camped on the east end island which offers good base camp location for fishing Gaskin and Horseshoe. We even shared breakfast with a bull moose on the island one morning. The weather and fish did not cooperate too well, but I hear this lake offers much better fishing than we had.
in 2000. Quite a bit of blowdown remains then. Didn't notice it in the camp site area until you took the trail to the privy. Trees everywhere. Was a beautiful site though as I remember.
Actually the Granite River is excellent and perfect for what you propose. Read Beymer's description of the route. Water should be high then, too, and the fishees should be ravenous.
Perfect, I found my route, I'm going to go in at Magnetic Lake and trail just close enough to Mike and swoop in at the last second to grab whatever camp site he is going for, LOL. Only kidding, I was reading about the Granite River, doesn't sound to bad, I'll have to look a little close when I get home and have a map in front of me.
Steve, thanks for the trip ideas. I was up around Vista, Caribou, Clearwater a few years ago, we had terrible weather all week, but it is a beautiful area, and I think we saw 9 or 10 moose on that trip. Might be time to revisit the area. Thanks for the ideas guys.
.... you'll have to get up pretty early on May 27 to trail me. I'll be the solo guy who you'll probably pass fishing. I'll throw a few of the big ones back for you to catch.
I've gone into Perent Lake via Hog Creek twice on basecamp fishing trips. We've had great success catching eater sized walleyes and northerns. The island campsites on the eastern side of the lake are very nice and near where we caught the fish. We didn't do much exploring, but there is a nice daytrip possibility going partway down the Perent River and back. If you end up going there, I'd be glad to e-mail you more info.
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra
i've taken several short trips with good fishing success. one was EP #54 - Seagull Lake to Ogishkemuncie. you can easily day trip up through to Knife or down to Gabi. another one is EP #27 - Snowbank Lake to Disappointment Lake. good fishing on Disappointment plus day trips up to the falls on Cattyman. you really could spend all day fishing Disappointment--we caught Northern, Walleye and Smallmouth (i've also heard there's Largemouth). another one would be EP #16 - Moose River North to Oyster Lake--we caught Northern and Lake Trout. day trips to the pictos on Rocky Lake or up to Gebeonequet even, or on the Sioux/Hustler Trail off the portage between Oyster and Hustler.
we took all of these trips as two-nighters. in on day one, camped two nights, out on day three. have fun!
My camp was located on the north shore of the little unnamed pond between portages. I stayed there for three days two nights.
My camp. There was a short stretch of shallow slush on the pond on Saturday. I had to scrape ice off my sleds on Monday. A better idea would have been to let them lie bottoms up so the sun and wind might have dried them off. I didn’t use a heater on this trip. Although it was a very cold wake-up on Monday my tent warmed up quickly by the time the coffee water was hot. The tent accommodates sitting up in a chair with space to safely operate a single burner stove. Saturday morning I made Shake’n Pour pancakes. I cooked four and saved two to reheat the next morning. Fried Spam from the new foil packages goes well.
The subject of water methods came up yesterday. My water method was melting snow. Augering is hard work and extra equipment to carry. I could have fetched water from the rapids but then I would still have to heat it to boil or use chemicals. I don’t think filtering would work very well when it’s so cold and you have to heat the water anyway to keep it from freezing. I had plenty of stove fuel along but did most of my water-making on the camp fire.
I finished the toboggan the night before departing. It worked great! Thanks to TK and fisher.
hows it trail behind the snomobile.....from the the tracks in the photo, I'd say you ride a '98 Polaris Snow King Special....(only kidding)..anyhoo.. nice shots.
nice photos in part # 3 also. It is indeed odd to see the black phase pingpong this early towards spring, usually the white winter coat stays till the snow is gone.....I once saw an albine, fooled me at first, I thought is was late changing from the winter white phase, but I got a good look at the pink eyes that confirmed the albino strain...man wish I woulda had a camera then, the albinos are more scarce than pertinate information from me! Got any more winter trips planned up this way before meltage?
I was lookin at my maps of Texas coast line yesterday...one of these days after floatin down the Mississippi, i'm gonna turn right an cruise thru the coastal NWRs an mabe down the length of Padre island...jus gotta get a different boat. But I was wondering about your walk to Wood lake.. did you go out to the lake and have a camp fire? there was evidence of someone recently doing so. I skied into there yesterday and took a few photos.. found some other interesting stuff too, like a quanze hut pre built an just setting there waiting to be used..even had a supply of pre-cut firewood laying next to where the campfire was...shure would be handy type of information to know, if you were some feller named "eglath" that was looking for some such info.....wonder if he'll ever get the info he seeks....????? Well..enjoy the big "T"
I never realized what a treasure this board is. To know that not only does a member have the moxy to photograph the elusive black ball in the wild, but to discover that another board reader is familiar with the albino strain is really exciting.
I'm a little surprised that a northwoods tracker like yourself didn't notice the odd positioning of the dew claw on it's left rear pug mark as it approached it's nest?
I think we should discuss these details some day in the fall, perhaps over a beverage at Camp One Foot?
TK
on the dew claw.. Inoticed too, but thought an escape from a leg hold trap may of had something to do with it..that or sloppy photography, but I ruled that out considering E Bs photo skills.....yea..I would like to visit camp one hoof...sounds grand Yep!!!!!!!1
A few days ago, there was a posting about paddling solo in an SR Quetico 17. Let's revisit that since I'm a recent Q17 owner.
When I was debating whether to go Q17 or Q16, my thinking was that I wanted a tandem that I could solo. (Tripping, not just day tripping.) Now, as a result of the health of my primary bow paddler, I realize that the emphasis with this canoe may be more solo than tandem. A friend who paddles the Q17 swayed me when he said that the 17 paddles great solo. While that may be true, it does seem a tad large as a solo canoe. Maybe the 16 would make a better fit with intended use. OR maybe a solo canoe, as I do have another tandem. A solo would solve another issue that is vital for me and that is weight. If I'm going to paddle solo, I intend to paddle light. Ten pounds lighter than the Q17 would be good.
For what it's worth: My Q17 is going to get a workout this summer, and that makes me happy.
The question remains: How do YOU feel about soloing the Q17?
FF & I have been emailing back and forth about this subject.
My first trip with my 17 was a 5 day solo. I went with it after great advice from this board and don't at all regret it.
The thwart behind the bow comes off easily with a wrench and screwdriver and once I did that, just did the turnaround thing and paddled from the bow.
One point, when I hit hard side and head winds, I had difficulty controlling my direction and had to resort to kneeling forward towards center and grabbing a kayak paddle. (Forgive me Hoz). Once I did that I had great control.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend solo for the SR17.
... This puts your center of gravity closer to the center of the canoe (as opposed to paddling from the stern) which helps with trim as well as control.
Larry
To really appreciate the wilderness, one must pay attention to the small things as well as the grandiose.
I heard what I wanted to hear. Q17 works fine as a solo even if the Q16 may be a little better for that purpose. Wind will be an issue but that's only natural. Great to fish in - yessiree. Appreciate the testimonials.
The thought of carrying a kayak paddle is still soaking in.
I printed it and will practice it on a breezy day with warmer waters. Maybe sometime in June or July. By my fall solos I may have another arrow in my quiver.
"When a man is part of his canoe, he is part of all that canoes have ever known."
Sigurd F. Olson
... the "C" stroke, as described in the article (with a through the water return), cannot be performed with a bent shaft paddle and is difficult with a straight shaft that has one of those comfort grips (can't remember the correct name at the moment) that are so popular these days. The through the water return means that you're using a different face of the paddle on each stroke.
A "C" stroke can be performed with a through the air return -- which can be performed with a bent shaft) but, is not as efficient in a wind as with the through the water return version.
Other terminology that I've heard for the C stroke with through the water return is D stroke and Indian Stroke.
Other terminology I've heard for the C stroke with an air return is Canadian Stroke. Also, people who use the "D" stroke terminology would claim that the stroke with an air return is the true "C" stroke. But, who's going to argue with Omer? Certainly not I!
Larry
To really appreciate the wilderness, one must pay attention to the small things as well as the grandiose.
While many folks were enjoying themself's looking and dreaming about canoeing/trips, I was doing the final outside sanding on this project. It is now ready for glassing, planned for this coming weekend. Just have to precut the small re-enforcements and do some setting up and it's ready.
For builders out there, if you think you're going to do a few more, checkout Thayercraft for glass. They basically only sell full rolls but it's nice stuff and cheap.
I got 2 rolls for just a bit more then "cut pieces" at other places.
I think I'll try for a curve on at least the ft seat, and maybe the rear too. Not sure how to route the groove yet though. I suppose I could just bend a piece of plywood, I currently have/use a few templates for making/routing the grooves in seat frames.
Thinking laminated cedar/cherry seat frames to reduce the weight.
Use a mortise cutter with a bering guide in the router with the rail on its side. I'm not sure if 1/4" slot will work with cane/spline (been a while since I made seats) but you could go with a wider spline and take 2 passes. You'd just have to hand chisel the corners.
As some (or probably most of you) know...poor old dad had a little run in the other night w/ our dog. He got his pinkie finger got on one of the dogs teeth and got it ripped open quite deep. I drove him to the hospital at 9:30 sunday evening and we were finally walking out at 1:30 monday morning. It was a long night of sitting and waiting....waiting and sitting. And honestly...we had a pretty good time! We kept the ER nurses, doctors, and techs laughing pretty much for the whole time we were in there. But all is well! Looks like he'll still be able to paddle!!!!!!!!
I have a pic..but having difficulty getting it in here! will follow shortly!!
at Good Samaritan Hospital. Cardiac arrest, two broken legs, drug overdose, knife and gunshot wounds,ingrown toenail and whiplash. Think they'd take me right away, right? But nooooooo, they've got some guy with a dogbite they have to take care of. All I could do was sit there in pain, listening to the laughter and tomfoolery!
Crying like a baby!!!lol..Actually, it wasn't all fun and games. They had a few things going on, but as far as er's go, it was a pretty slow night. Which, as I'm thinking about it, makes me wonder why it took so long for them to get me taken care of.. Hmm, perhaps an inquiry is in order.
It looks as though the Dr. did a good job closing it up. Made me a bit nervous the other night though.He at first wasn't going to close it, due to the nature of the bite and proximity to the knuckle. I guess dog bites are prone to bad infections and if they close it up, there is a chance that an infection could start and destroy the cartilage etc. in the joint. Fortunately, with my situation, knowing the dog is up to date with shots etc. and the fact that when he put the 2 stitches in that he was going to put in, he decided that it just wasn't closed enough, so he added 2 more. When I went to the specialist yesterday, he said everything looked good.
I just went back and loooked at posts, How'd you know it was Good Sam? Lucky guess? This was the first time I've been to Good Sam. Usually with emergencies, we'd go to CDH or EH. My Drs. practice changed this yr., so now Good Sam. is where we go.
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
But then, I couldn't before the incident either! Actually, the wound is on my right pinky, it doesn't enter into the equation for playing. I use my index and middle finger to play with some help from the third finger ocassionally.
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
He's a Black Lab and has been a constant companion since we got him. He'll be 14 in October. I have since rolled him over and put him on his back, just to show him who's boss. He has been very mellow the last couple of days. If I felt he was threat, he'd be gone, but, I know he would never do anything intentional to hurt us. This was an unfortunate incident, a very expensive unfortunate incident.
For those interested in the Upper Iowa weekend, you may check the following website for a preview. I will try to get more of our specifics up in the next day or two. The weekend that seemed to work out best for everyone is April 29-May 1. So mark your calendars and plan to come join us. We're ordering higher water levels than last year!
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
I'm going to try to post this from her e-mail and see how it works.
"Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and cheer and give strength to body and soul." --John Muir
)
Larry 
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