Ground fighting is prevalent in street fighting.If I am down and in the on guard position or what ever, I know this games is for keeps, and that is where ALL of your training will come into play. In reality you must do what ever you can to get out of that situation before you get choked out or limb destruction, so several techniques come into play. Even biting. Rip the guys eyeballs out or crush his adams apple,attack his vital areas, nerve attack,kidney attack with two or more fingers ect.., also develop the sensitivty to know when your oponent shifts and is able to be toppled. Also, sensitivity drills of all kinds are key, even blind folded sticking hands ect.. I have met few practitioners that were actually good at sensitivety, other than the other students. Tai Chi teaches push hands which is prevalent in most states and is a good way to develop sensitivety. It is much worse than Ultimate fighting championship, guys. And it can be to the death! Especially a fighter who has no trainig or mercy. When your are in the on-gaurd position try to keep your oponents head close to your chest! several or just one upward palm strike under the chin ect. ect.
This message has been edited by nwfish on Mar 19, 2003 9:56 PM This message has been edited by nwfish on Mar 19, 2003 9:42 PM
The guard sucks, LOL! It's just not where you want to be. Of course life doesn't always give us exactly what we want so, there are times when you might have no CHOICE but to be there. It's times like those where you will want to have the best guard game that you can possibly have. In that sense it's a paradox; you don't want to be there (guard) but, you'll want to spend a lot of time training it.
Having a good active guard is the key. You can't just LIE there and wait for your opponent to make a mistake. You have to take the fight TO your opponent. There are three concepts that create the active guard; 1)Pressure of strikes, 2)Pressure of submissions and sweeps/reversals, 3)The threat of rising up OUT of the guard (if your opponent took you down, he's not wanting to you stand back up).
Once you have some ability to use the guard, you can add all of the "foul" tactics that you want. Eye jabs/thumbing, fishhooking, throat shots, tearing the ear (or just pounding the sh*t out of it), heel kicking the kidneys, etc. can all come into play (aside from fists/elbows, etc). The straight blast works pretty well from the guard too! Just remember to just plain ROLL enough without all of that, so that you understand the dynamics of positional control as well and you're good to go.
But again, the guard is not the place to CHOOSE to go. It's what you do when caught unaware or (God FORBID), someone was just a better fighter than you were!
We spend a LOT of time developing our guard game. Most of that time is spent with strikes allowed in training (nothing REAL hard mind you, just enough so that you respect it). We also work in the foul tactics as well for the purpose of offense and, knowing how to defend against them. And, it's a HELL of a lot of fun. That's why "I" do it.
Ah the wise man in ground fighting added what I hoped he would. You seem to have alot of knowledge and thanks for the Information you shared with all of us. Keep the positivety rolling, my friend!!!! I know you are knowledgeable at more than just ground fighting, just seem to have an excellent understanding of ground tactics. How many of you train in sensitivety?
NWFISH
This message has been edited by nwfish on Mar 20, 2003 9:03 AM
How do you avoid getting into the on-guard position?When the fight ends up in grappling range? 4 ranges:kicking-boxing-trapping-grappling. It's kind of strange to be building my knowledge of fighting techniques via the web, with someone I have never met! It is great and positive!!
Intention-Interception-Destruction
NWFISH
The only way to really learn to avoid the guard, and pass the guard if you're stuck in it, is to roll/spar the situation over and over again a thousand and one times. There are no easy outs for this. It takes experience. Its not a "if he does this, then I do that" sort of thing that can just be talked about. Its just too dynamic of a situation.
Find a school or some good partners and get to work, learning all of the nuances (of which there are plenty).
Above all, have fun. Thats what its about, right?
-John
KingOmegaman (Login theOmegaman) His Royal Highness
Re: Ground fighting
March 20 2003, 7:38 PM
Hey John, I was wondering that if in the guard you could pull off a wrist lock, or arm lock? Or if your lucky a choke? However it might not do you to could if he's on top of you lol.
Wrestling isn't fighting. While you think control, manipulation, lock, the other person is thinking--break your friggin' face. Most of today's grapping solutions are only wrestling and hitting. Anything else is above their heads because they have been conditioned through contest to think along these narrow lines.
Fighting is fighting period, call it battling or what ever. Word semantics is all. To me i'm fighting no matter what Fighting to defeat my opponent, regardless of what is taking place in the battle, Fighting to survive, fighting to remain uninjured, it is all a battle no matter what someone calls it, period!Main thing is to come out on top with defeat or de-fuse the situation or try to avoid the situation comepletely, but sometimes you are unable to avoid it and that is what you are doing, fighting. Or what ever you want to call it. It is still the same thing, guys!! Semantics-shemantics this that and the other.
What I'm just thinking is, you have to begin SOMEWHERE. In order to learn grappling, street or otherwise, you've got to have a base of fundamentals from which to put your "street fighting" tactics into play. Otherwise, without any skill, how would one expect to mount any offensive?
This message has been edited by Justanotherfaceinthecrowd on Mar 21, 2003 10:01 PM
Yes and No. Even if you don't have training and you are a proficient street fighter, your will to survive will kick in and you will be resourcefull ect. Still does'nt come close to preparing, but is functional.
NWFISH
How would you not have any training yet still be a proficient street fighter? Almost every street fighter who has actual street fighting experience likely began SOMEWHERE. He might have had a background in boxing (look at Mike Tyson). Not having some sort of fundamental training leads to bad habits, poor timing and being mistake prone.
What I am talking about is Learned experience from combat. Not much knowledge, but enough to be resourcefull at techniques that work for him and yes even a street fighter will develop his own working techniques. If he is smart, that is.
NWFISH
Man, you'd have to be fighting a WHOLE damn lot to learn that much from combat, lol!!! Fighting ability comes from REPITITION of the basics over and over. Drilling alone just isn't going to do it either, you have to spar and spar a lot.
Most of the streetfighters out there who do it regularly are self taught. They don't have great timing footwork or knowledge throughout all ranges. They just slug it out and over time they have developed the art of being able to take a beating. The way we try to avoid being hit, they just take it and give back any way they can. To learn the streetfighting tactics you must have a base. Say groundfighting, Vale Tudo and Kino Muai Thai isn't very efficient without Ju Jitsu or BJJas a base. And you don't want to wrestle in a streetfight you want to hit, hit and hit some more.
That's most of the unskilled street fighters though. You can also have SKILLED street fighters who have boxing and wrestling experience. Mike Tyson is just one example of someone who can obviously street fight. I don't think anyone would disagree that his sport base helps him.
i remember ages ago in the ufc in the 80's there was this guy with no martial art skills he'd just been in a hell of a lot of street fights. i saw him on there smash heaps of people. all those 10th degree black belts and all.
to underestimate your opponent, whether a blackbelt or a butter knife. Is to take away from your own TAO! Don't do it, ever!!!And we are all Brethren on basically the same path!!Train to come out on top and treat any combat situation as extremely dangerous if not deadly!
Develop your own TAO
NWFISH
Mike,
Fish has long since established "anti-grappling" techniques that will render you ineffective against him. He probably did that when he created his own style that he teaches.
Have you had the discussion yet where it is explained in no uncertain terms that gouges, eye-pokes and bites are no substitute for ground fighting skill?
Also have you had the discussion where it is explained that in ground fighting the desire to strike is not the same as the ability to achieve and maintain an effective striking position?
By the way the UFC started in the 90's, David "Tank" Abbot was the streetfighter and he actually had training in boxing and college wrestling.
You cannot substitute skill for improvable and impracticable technique! That isn't to say that such technique is worthless, but it is without actually skill in a delivery system, from which to apply it.
Imagine two people on the ground, one skilled, the other unskilled (as to effective ground delivery systems, ie. Brazilian jiu-jitsu). One person decides to just go for something like eye gouging and biting, etc.
The other person (who can do those tactics as well), is skilled on the ground. This person (whether he is on the top or bottom) is going to have the advantage.
The unskilled person, without knowledge or ability regarding positioning and grappling ability, won't be able to likely even FIND the skilled guy's eyes before his arms are broken, or has been choked unconscious.
That's the difference and, is the reason why just going for the "street" stuff isn't going to be enough.
I just gonna say I agree with both John K and Norwood bloke.
Also just want to know after having read the pointless thread Fish started about his rage against BJJ etc why he thinks anyone is going to take him seriously.
Hi Norwoodbloke. I think you mentioned somewhere else that you where British. I am guessing from your username that you are from Norwood South London. Just wondering where you train and who you train with.
