Ok I know I think that posts like this are stupid but this one I've been dying to get feedback from. It's been always in the back of my mind so I would like to know what all of you thihk. In an all out street fight, with anything goes, who would you put your money on? Ron Prather has already told me his opinion that Bruce would fall to either of those guys because of Tyson's size and power and Rickson's ground superiority.
This message has been edited by Lenmaster on Jul 19, 2003 1:03 AM This message has been edited by Lenmaster on Jul 19, 2003 1:00 AM
I dont know about tyson... i think muhammad ali is better than tyson and i remeber a long time ago in a artical (when ali was still healthy) ali was asked the question. "Who would win in a fight, you or Bruce Lee??". Ali said that he would kill bruce in the ring, but on the srteet, where there are no rules and anything goes, I (ali) would have no chance. So i think its safe to say that that is what ali truley thought, he wouldnt say it for the hell of it because he had his reputation on the line. Hey, does anyone have a copy of the artical anywayz??? Its really old and i forgot where i read it.
On a clip on warriors journey DVD, i slowed down the take where bruce and kareem were fighting, bruce was moving so fast, that at some places his legs would just dissapear, and this is from back stepping!
undoubtedly bruce would have won, ali and tyson train boxing, bruce trained his whole body, and he could cave in metal headgear with one punch, that couldnt be broken with sledgehammers, if ali could do that, he's have killed all his opponents!
Bruce was just too fast. and speed = power, so he could easily knockout anyone.
-Jowan-
i agree 100% with you jowan. you see an outake of bruce and kareem doing a scene at full speed it looks like bruce is retreating in fast forward! then it shows how they did the real scene after bruce slowed himself down so kareem could keep up.
I know! my jaw just dropped wide open when i saw the scene!
he must have practised his footwork for hours on ened every day. ive been taking my footwork training up a knotch or 2, but i keep getting blisters lol, do any of you know how much bruce practised footwork? i know how much cardio/weights/sparring he did, but ive never had any information on his footwork.
-Jowan-
You think otherwize in the ring omegaman?
so mike tyson could break METAL protective headgear with one punch, as bruce lee could?
well if tyson did that then imagine what he'd do to someone's head. he'd be the most famous boxer alive... which i dont think he is.
-Jowan-
Hey no one said anything about Bruce vs. Rickson Gracie. Don't forget that Rickson has had 400 fights with 0 loses. And you all think Bruce would win against Tyson huh? I admit Bruce is fast and powerful for his size but Tyson has taken punches from the best heavyweights out there....guys that hit three times as hard as Bruce Lee by mere size alone. And don't forget Tyson has the record for the hardest puncher in boxing history and has knocked out guys twice the size of Bruce with one punch. If Bruce were to fight with Tyson, he'd have to do a lot of moving around cause Tyson isn't exactly slow either and if Tyson would connect once, Bruce would die. But Bruce is fast and can probably hit Tyson 4 or 5 times for every one punch Tyson threw. I know everyone on here loves Bruce and thinks he's great which he is. But he's still human and humans can slip here and there. Just think about it from both sides of the coin.
This message has been edited by Lenmaster on Jul 19, 2003 1:10 PM
I am thinking of it from both sides of the coin-
on tysons side, he can knockout anyone with a single punch, he's the powerfullest boxer ever, but on bruce's size (and im not biased) bruce HAS done this-
"Bruce once caved in a protective headgear made from heavy steel rods, rods that had previousl withstood several blows from a sledge hammer"
Like i say, imagine what that'd do to a head.
-Jowan-
First of all Tyson is washed up, he hasn't beaten a credible fighter in a long time! Bruce could break metal head gear yeah, but how come he never did that in sparring?
Bruce would fair better against Rickson, cuz rickson dosn't really have a stand-up game. I dont know how good Bruce's take-down defense was.
oh yeah and lenmaster, what makes you think Tyson would kill Bruce in one punch? Have you ever seen it happen, and have you ever been punched by mike tyson? You have to realize that no one hear has ever fought Lee, or ever met him. So no one hear (includding myself) has the right to say Bruce would beat, or lose to whoever.
All the Gracies have challenged the top heavyweight boxers of their times to a fight. Of course, all boxers refused, just as Tyson has.
If Tyson can't knock out Rickson with a couple punches, he can say bye to getting up again, otherwise Tyson by KO.
Likewise if Bruce can't prevent Rickson from taking him down, I think Rickson by submission, easy. Otherwise Bruce by striking since Rickson has little stand-up.
Look Omegaman, no I have never seen Bruce fight anyone which means I have never seen him get knocked down or out either. I'm just saying if Tyson could connect a good shot (and has knocked out people that outweight Bruce by 100 or more pounds with one punch), I don't give Bruce Lee who weighs 135 lbs. a good chance of surviving a full power shot to the head and still be standing. I never said Bruce would lose a fight against Tyson cause it can never happen. I'm talking about getting a clean hit from Mike Tyson when you are Bruce Lee's size. I don't care who you are....you can be a great fighter but if you are a small guy, you will get you rear knocked to the ground if the guy like Tyson's size (240 lbs.) connects. By the way, who said he caved in headgear with a one inch punch? That's bull****. He caved it in....yes. But not with no one inch punch. Show me where it says that. Those are two different stories. I seen him break a board with a one inch punch but that's a lot easier to do than cave in head gear with a one inch punch. And just cause Rickson can't fight standing up as well as he fights on the ground doesn't mean he would lose to Bruce. Bruce is faster but I've seen Royce take down a lot of fast stand up fighters like Ron van Clief, or that japanese karate guy from UFC II. Now if Rickson is better than Royce, imagine what he could do if he could get Bruce on the ground? Well you know what? We'll never know...we can only speculate. Rickson vs. Tyson could still happen but I sincerely believe that it won't. LOL.
For once I have to agree with John. Jiyasa, you evidently have never been in a real fight. Stand toe-to-toe with a f****** monster like Tyson and try not to slip on your own urine running the other way. I WOULD!!!
There reaches a point where strength and skill cannot be contended. Tyson has hit the best and been hit by the best. The guy is like the black Hulk. This really isn't about JKD. This is about a 220 lb dismemberer against a 130 lb martial artist. I hit a guy once (and I'm 210) with EVERYTHING I had--one shot, dead in the nose. The guy squinted and a tear rolled down his cheek. He shook his head, lunged forward like a pissed bull, grabbed my shoulders, pushed me so hard I landed OVER a pool table and thudded against a wall. He was at least 275 lb. I SHOULD have gone to the hospital that night.
Wake up and smell the coffee. SIZE DOES MATTER:-) There are guys in this world you can kick, punch, smack in the head with a bat, and they will just laugh at you.
Ron Prather
PRIME DEFENSE SYSTEMS
www.primedefense.com
primedefense@mail.com
Whoa. I agree with Ron too. Whats happening here?! J/K Ron
Bruce had no real ground game. Tyson would squash him like a bug. No human of Bruce's size could beat tyson standing. Tyson has skill. Size advantage + skill = victory. Unless the big guy has no grappling skill and you do. Then you can beat them. One of the cool benefits of learning to grapple. And no, bruce didn't know how to grapple. Knowing a moves means jack squat. He nevered "rolled". Its like learning to punch but never sparring.
Bruce had no real ground game. Rickson would choke him out.
Yeah past strikers wouldn't have been used to a shoot by a person of Rickson's skill level, and would probably be submitted easily after a quick takedown. Did Bruce ever do hard full contact sparring anyway?
Today's good strikers are better though. The ones who can hit and submit make the best fighters.
bruce wouldn't have used destructions on ali or on tyson because it would be a waste of timing and distance. why doesn't anybody understand this. what would you do if you missed a "destruction"? you would eat the pavement or canvas or whatever survace you were fighting on. what a joke. destructions are ridiculous. i'm not talking about stop kicks, foot obstructions, lowline attacks towards the shins, or punching to the face or body. i'm talking about zoning punches into the elbows, bicep, tricep, and shoulder destructions and all that other madness. these things simply don't work people.
why doesn't anyone understand this?
What is to understand?
Your Way is your way!
Mine is mine
There are no rules or set ways and what ever works, use it! Period!
We each have our own abilitys and choices in any given moment.
What is speculation of what should be used ect. is personal preference for that moment,only!
I choose to only be free of any type of set structure or move by move scenarios
ok ...lets see who gives the best play by play ...
bruce starts hoppin around ...measuring up Tyson,
Tyson throws jab, bruce leans back savate and kicks Tyson in the shin and nuts ....tyson doubles over ...bruce then does a successful pac sao and biu jee to tysons eye
tyson deseperately looks for Bruce's ear to no avail as Bruce whacks him on the head with a straightblast,
followed by a body hook and hi hook as tyson raises his glove to block ...bruce hits him with a shovel hook...breaks into silat knocks Tyson down ...drops down and goes for an ankle lock and breaks tysons ankles.
or something like that
Ricky
This message has been edited by MusicDo on Jul 21, 2003 8:55 PM This message has been edited by MusicDo on Jul 21, 2003 8:52 PM
damn rite ricky. u guys r idiots, u think jus cuz mike tyson is big he can take anyone apart? give me a break! bruce would hit tyson 1000 times b4 tyson even realizes he was hit. Bruce was simply that fast, and guess wut, velocity equals power. Making bruce MUCH stronger then tyson. Tyson has no ground fighting, kicking, trapping or grappling experience. Lets c Tyson throw 1 of his incredible punchs while both his arms are jammed due to bruces trapping skills.
Tyson vs Royce Gracie, ( I havent seen Rickson fight enough but I have seen a few Gracie fights )
Royce leans back and starts working tysons knees with round kicks, cautiously stepping around him, Royce is strategic so he'd make sure to keep out of Tysons punching range, but Tyson keeps backing him into ropes, Royce starts crouching in Hugging tyson while Tyson tries to hit him on the head and ribs, Royce then snakes tysons legs with his own to trip him to the ground, tyson resists for a few minutes hops around on one leg and falls and begins to feebly punch Royce like a desperate sissy on the ground - since he's only use to punching standing up, while Royce buries his face safely in tysons chest,tyson looks like a fish out of water as he flaps around trying to get Royce off of him, Royce just cuddles with tyson while he waits for him to get tired. The very second tyson starts slowing down ..Royce goes right for the arm bar and tyson taps out, Royce waits about 30 seconds to let go of tysons arm pretending to not hear the tap or reff and gets up and walks to safety touching his ears to make sure tyson didnt bite anything off .... tyson lies on the ground with his broken arm layed out on the floor and the other hand covering his face.
or something like that
Ricky
This message has been edited by MusicDo on Jul 22, 2003 1:53 AM This message has been edited by MusicDo on Jul 22, 2003 1:50 AM This message has been edited by MusicDo on Jul 22, 2003 1:49 AM
Disciple - yeah I was contemplating it. I know this guy named KC whose an aikido expert. He's tough as nails and took out some MMA and JKD guys in lots of local tough man contests. If I were to even dream about UFC I would have to go through him and he's never been beat in a real fight!
Lmao!
anyways, back in the real world...
I think Rickson is the best MMA fighter in the world and if anyone were to desire the respect and rank of the best, he would have to go through him. Tyson is tough but like anyone else, he's limited by his craft. You stick him in the octagon and like any other "just boxer", he would be taken to the ground and either locked or pounded into submission.
This message has been edited by N54nick on Mar 6, 2006 1:08 PM
i agree that size does matter to an extent. But everyones talking about power like the one with more power wins.... let me ask you this, if tyson can break steal and bruce can only break cement... does it matter???? No. Why??? because either way if someone takes a hit like that to the head, they die!
and for those who say that tyson has taken hits from the best, they are waering gloves (witch absorbs SOME impact) and i have never seen a clean shot landed on tyson (by some one with power) that didnt **** him up.
I beleive they both possesed the power to kill someone with one punch, so if you both have that much power, it comes down to who gets hit first (that person loses). That comes down to speed timing, and sensitivity. I think if bruce was to fight tyson, the first one to take a clean hit would loose for sure,
but i think that bruce was way too fast for tyson. Need proof???? Enter the dragon.... Ohara fight scene... and i dont think he was going full speed.
of the population. I would bet on Bruce, I think he has better mobility and ability to fight at different ranges than Tyson. Tyson is a monster, though. That would definately be a great fight to have seen. Of course it would have to be the young, almost barbaric Tyson we're speculating about. I wonder how Bruce would react to one of Tyson's hooks to the body if he were to land one. There has to be enough similar information on the two to run through a probability and statistics program to see what the probable outcome would be. I just don't know which information to use.
I never heard that Mike Tyson got his but whooped in prison. What i heard is that some drug dealer inmate came up to him and started ****, and tyson layed him out on his ass, then no-one messed with him. I highly doubt the man was put into general population anyway, so both stories are probably fictional.
If tyson could catch bruce, bruce would be in a world of pain, but how likely is it that tyson is fast enough to catch bruce? complicated situation.
Ok first of all I like Bruce Lee just like everyone else. But metal headgear? Does anybody have an actually REFERENCE for that story? And if Bruce caved in someone's metal headgear with their head in it, wouldn't that have cracked their skull? Also what kind of metal and how think? That makes a BIG difference!
As far as Gracies challenging top boxers, the TOP boxers get paid millions even when they LOSE fights! If the Gracies offered this type of payday (which they haven't) I think you'd see someone like Tyson take them up on it. (Especially if biting is allowed!) There have been "kung-fu versus boxing" matches in the past. I recall Don "the dragon" Wilson in one such fight. He won (being able to kick was a big advantage), but it wasn't an easy fight for him. (And before StraightBlaster throws this up Don Wilson TRAINED kung fu, although he COMPETED in kickboxing).
wuts with all this talk about tyson? He wasnt the best boxer in the world, and isnt the physically strongest either. I think Ali would paint the ring with tysons blood ANYDAY. Ali turned boxing into an art with his incredible mobility, speed, and almost dance-like movements.
I just remembered, I read Bruce commenting something about himself having tiny arms compared to Ali and that Ali could destroy him. Maybe Bruce was speaking in the context of boxing and not NHB fighting.
theOmegaman mentioned that Bruce did hard sparring, but from the videos I've seen (eg from Sifu Lamar) Bruce did not seem to get hit or actually hit any partner that hard. I saw the Long Beach demo where he sparred with headgears and protective armor, but even then he did not seem to knock the opponent very hard.
I cant believe people even got any doubts. Have you learnt nothing. His speed, technuiqes, flow and power surpassed the skills of the named mentioned in replies. Sure not to take anything from them, they been at the top of their game too, but exactly that, their game not Bruces. I'm also slightly biased in regard to the majority of the names given for the fact that i have had a lot of fun allowing boxers attempt to prove their age old claim of being able to kick our martial arts asses. Hois Gracey of Brazil- Good, even damn good.... but not that good.Bruce the man!
first of all. bruce might of been talking in boxing or he could of just been saying it to make himself not look cocky. he was a modest guy.
and your judging bruce lee's sparring in 1964 10 years before his prime. he was using fancy moves when sparring dan inosanto because he knew what people liked to see. and for him to pull those fancy moves off successfully in sparring is amazing.
Ok, I have found so many contradictions in what people have been saying.
Many people here preach that strength doesnt mean anything in a fight.
Everyone says that tyson cant beat everyone just b/c he is strong. Those same people say that he is over rated, not very fast, and not very skilled. Make up your minds.
Tyson has knocked out more 200 plus pounders while wearing gloves than any of us will do in a lifetime bare knuckle.
So, if he has no skill and is slow, I guess it is the strength that allows him to put these other boxers down with ease.
If Tyson can knock out so many big guys and do so much damage with gloves on, what do you think he would do to a 150 pound man bare knuckle? Thats a scary thought.
Another thought: Can any of you guys that preach speed and technique mean everything in the world: how many of you would honestly fight mike tyson? Jiyasa, I specifically remember you saying you are faster than Mike Tyson. Since you are faster than him and speed means everything to throw a hard punch, would you fight tyson? After all you are faster, and his strength means nothing right? Jiyasa, this is not just aimed at you. Im not pickin on ya. You are just the only one that said you were faster than tyson.
This message has been edited by StrongLikeBull on Jul 23, 2003 10:24 AM
wut ppl have to take into consideration about tyson or gracie is that they were sport fighters. And both the sports they did had rules. Bruce was purely a street fighter. And ppl who r used 2 fighting in a controlled environment with rules will have a much harder time fighting on the street (if their opponent is a good fighter, like a jkd or system guy) if they have no street combat experience. Tyson may have knocked out plenty of ppl but in a match with rules. U CANT EVEN USE KICKS IN BOXING FOR GODS SAKE!
First of all for the folks hating on Tyson, that makes no more sense than hating on Bruce! Both were good at what they did. Could Ali beat Tyson? I don't know. They never fought and they never will! I like Ali better, but then I LIKE Ali better. Yeah Tyson is a first class jerk. But he's a jerk that is (well was) a good boxer.
Now as for fighting Tyson? I'd fight him! For the million bucks that the LOSER gets in some of fights? I'd definitely fight him! It's all about timing. How quickly can I take a dive and still let the fight look real?
And just because boxers don't kick doesn't mean I would count one out in a fight! Bruce might be able to hold someone like Tyson off with kicks, but I doubt I would be able to. Like I said when this has been tested before boxers have fared better than I think some people here would have imagined.
Berserk, you are looking at it too black and white. Just cause Tyson and Rickson were sports figures doesn't mean they couldn't kick some serious ass on the street! I challenege anyone on the jkd forum to accept a fight against either one of those guys on the street (for you all out there that think you have the upper hand cause you can trap, grapple, kick, and punch) Those guys have some serious skills! Tyson may be just a boxer but he is extremely powerful and fast for his size and all he would need is one or two good shots and most anyone on this forum would go down. Rickson fights with rules but not many. Rickson is the closest legal thing to a real fight that can be shown on tv that there is. Plus you actually seen these guys fight! I like Bruce and I think he was real but you never seen Bruce Lee fight in real life! At least you seen all these guys fight numerous fights and win. Tyson is acknolwedged as having the hardest punch in all of boxing's history and Rickson has fought 400 fights and lost to none of them! Go ahead. Challenge either one of them on the street. And tell Tyson that he can only punch and Rickson that he can only grapple and you guys can do anything you want and they will still beat anyone on here.
This message has been edited by Lenmaster on Jul 23, 2003 2:28 PM
I don't care what the circumstances are, I wouldn't want to meet even a mediocre boxer in a street fight. All it takes is one good punch to the jaw-line, nose, or temple, and you're either out or dead.
"I am the original Jedi Pimp! I've been pimpin' on the good side of the force for so long, I could be your daddy..."
Are you nuts? Tyson was such a badass and a streetfighter before he ever stepped foot in a boxing ring. Id be my money that he is even more comfortable fighting with no rules on the street than in the ring with gloves.
