I'm taking OJKD and was thinking about adding an art such as Aukido or even JKDC as a supplement to what I'm taking now.
I have a JKD class once a week, and was figuring that was not enough. So I was thinking of joining a JKDC school that held classes twice a week, or a Aukido school that also held classes twice a week.
What do you guys think? Now I know JKDC is different from OJKD, but I figured I could train in both and progress faster. I'm also very interested in Aukido as mentioned before. Any advice?
What specifically do you want to learn outside OJKD?
I assume because you mentioned Aikido (Aukido?) you want grappling. If so don't take Aikido, take brazilian juijitsu, sambo, judo, wrestling or catch. Aikido is not an effective grappling art. I would recommend picking the style and going to the best school for that style, which depending on where you live is probably not the JKDC school.
I'm fine with my OJKD school. I figured most people study more than one art. I also thought I'd learn faster if I combined JKDC w/ OJKD. Aikido, Karate, and kung fu is the only other schools around other than JKD. Thats why I asked about JKD.
Jeet Kune Do Concepts, Aikido, Karate-Do, Kung Fu/GungFu, Hapkido, are all in thier own way effective. Im sorry to hear the words 'not effective' in a martial arts room by martial artist. In my many years of training, its been proven time and time again,its not the art that makes the man, its the man that makes the art. JKD in general whether or not its OJKD,HJKD,JKDU,JKDC, its all JKD in the end or at least I hope it is. Look at the supplementing discipline you choose to best suite your needs and functions. Do research, find what you like. Sure one style will be differently approached than another, but to be realisticly if the art/system you seek is not taught to your satisfaction, I'd look behind the instruction not the art within itself. Just some good ol advice. I personally find nothing wrong with traditional arts. Whats that saying on the streets?
"IT's ALL GOOD, IN THE HOOD" right? well maybe not....lol......sorry for the cheesy exit...be well
Aikido's emphasis on standing joint locks makes it pretty much a waste of time. Someone who had trained in a more functional grappling style could pretty much nullify 80% of your Aikido knowledge even if they were only a beginner in wrestling, BJJ, Sambo, Judo, etc.
There might be some instructors who teach more effective holds and moves in Aikido but those aren't from Aikido and I'd bet they are Johnny come lately's who cross trained themself. If you want effective grappling go get the real deal.
"Im sorry to hear the words 'not effective' in a martial arts room by martial artist."
This is a JKD forum. The primary reason JKD was created was that so many arts are not effective. If you feel all arts are effective then you should either look into the history of JKD, or find a forum that is about martial arts in general.
The founder of this style was allways talking about how most martial arts were very poor. If its not your thing to judge arts then maybe you should avoid the art who's founder is famous for judging everything and calling most of it garbage.
"In my many years of training, its been proven time and time again,its not the art that makes the man, its the man that makes the art."
Martial arts are to the fighter what race cars are to the driver. Sure, it takes a good driver to win a race. But give him a crappy car and its really going to hinder his ability to preform to his fullest.
Now, give me a nice nascar stock car, and give a pro racer a honda and he's still going to beat me. But he's not going to beat other pro racers in that honda.
"If your choice is JKDC or Karate/Aikido/Kung Fu then definitely pick JKDC."
Its actually a hard call. Most JKDC schools I have seen didn't include realistic sparring. But I have seen karate schools that trained people for Sabaki, and kung fu schools that trained people for San Shou, so you really need to look at the schools sparring more then the name itself.
You wrote >This is a JKD forum. The primary reason JKD was created was that so many arts are not effective. If you feel all arts are effective then you should either look into the history of JKD, or find a forum that is about martial arts in general.
The founder of this style was allways talking about how most martial arts were very poor. If its not your thing to judge arts then maybe you should avoid the art who's founder is famous for judging everything and calling most of it garbage.<
This is a JKD forum, and like many I like to state my opinions as well. JKD was made or put together by a Man that was wanting to better himself. He took what he felt worked for him in other systems of martial arts and added it to his personal preference. Bruce was a man of many talents and I appreciate his work as well. However to defend my argument here, I will use some of Bruces on words. "Whether your into JKD or the mixed martial arts or MA in general,you must learn to "Float in totality". Totality refers to the sum of all the techniques from (ALL) styles. Floating in totality means you do not make a choice. You simply respond like an echo. A Echo offers precision because it does not involve conscious decision. When you choose which art to use, you must recognize its limititations. JKD does not have limitations, therefore you must simply respond. You must be free to use no way as way. You respond not as a Kung Fu stylist or a Karate stylist but as yourself. (IT IS THE INDIVIDUAL,NOT THE ART THAT WINS AND ENDURES.") So to me learning from any and all martial arts reguardless of its background is far better then sticking to one specific way of fighting. I can honestly say there are many JKD practicioners out there that can'not make JKD work in a functionig manner. Thats the cold hard facts. As is thier are many Karate ka , and TKD etc...But that goes back to its not the art but the man. Bruce said to "EMPTY YOUR CUP" It goes back to the traditional arts and FORMS. Bruce done forms. He was doing a form when he was noticed for the Kato part in the green hornet. ALot of JKD practicioners are against FORMS. Thats thier peragotive but its only because Bruce contradicted himself by saying Forms are useless. But yet he practiced them himself. He even stated every beginner should do forms. EMPTY YOUR CUP! loose the ego, and look into other martial arts. If its something that interest you don't hesitate to look deeper into it, because ONE person says not too...that does not make a leader that makes a follower. To make your self better you must find what makes you happy.
And finally, Straightblast although I understand and respect what you were trying to say with your Race car theory it was a bit "Extreme".. but to each his own. Happy training all....Enlighten yourself and dont follow because someone says this or that....Do as it suites you. Traditional arts are great in thier own sense. I enjoy them at the same time I agree thier are many things that are found within them that are useless. But I find alot more usefullness and make that which is useless, usefull. Its' just me I guess. But does that make me all great? No just a martial artist that loves to learn.....sorry for the long drug out message....be well and train hard.
If the Kung Fu school has an active San Shou team or the Karate is Kyokushin based then they might actually be better than the JKDC (depending on what JKDC school). You should visit the schools and find out more.
Don't believe the mini mall McDojo propaganda, most martial arts are indeed garbage. You really have to do research and be careful.
JKD does take a long time to really get it. I remember reading about ted wong and the lead punch. He wrote that it took him some time to really get the punch. Takes a lot of practice. There are no shortcuts.
"Totality refers to the sum of all the techniques from (ALL) styles. "
Totality is not about techniques.
"You respond not as a Kung Fu stylist or a Karate stylist but as yourself."
Exactly. Thats why learning karate or kung fu is not a good idea. Those styles restrict you and keep you from expressing yourself in combat. There are however many styles that allow you to "be yourself" and express yourself in combat.
"I can honestly say there are many JKD practicioners out there that can'not make JKD work in a functionig manner. "
Very true. Most people are not willing to put in the effort required to become a fighter. The road is long, painful, brutal, and unpleasent. We are not learn hop scotch after all.
"ALot of JKD practicioners are against FORMS. Thats thier peragotive but its only because Bruce contradicted himself by saying Forms are useless."
He didn't contradict himself. You just don't understand why he did forms. He didn't use them for techniques like 99% of everyone else does. Thats what he was against. Bruce didn't have self defense applications of the forms he did. He did them solely for internal structure training. It had nothing to do with techniques or even fighting. It was all about structure.
"EMPTY YOUR CUP! loose the ego, and look into other martial arts."
Allready been through that. And my cup is still empty, but I don't need to keep tasteing the same crappy tea over and over.
"And finally, Straightblast although I understand and respect what you were trying to say with your Race car theory it was a bit "Extreme".."
Not extreme at all. Thats just the way it is. Its also why all professional fighters only pick from a certain select group of martial arts, and why race car drivers are driving simular cars as well.
"I enjoy them at the same time I agree thier are many things that are found within them that are useless."
Thats great. If its all about having fun then none of this matters. But if its about becoming the best fighter you can, then you shouldn't waste your time with sub par arts.
Straightblaster you wrote> He didn't contradict himself. You just don't understand why he did forms. He didn't use them for techniques like 99% of everyone else does. Thats what he was against. Bruce didn't have self defense applications of the forms he did. He did them solely for internal structure training. It had nothing to do with techniques or even fighting. It was all about structure.<
Well you make very good valid statements and your argument is at best undeniably a good one. I however just think differently, and that could be my lack of understanding as well as lack of knowledge or Care. Personally I enjoy martial arts as a whole and I don't ever wish to be this WORLD DOMINANT fighter or HOUSE name. If thats you than sweet more power to you. I enjoy the Karate system that I take, and I'm not closed minded because our Karate school is very open and we adapt from many other arts which is what makes it unique, thiers nothing anyone could say to veer me away from it. I will say this, Martial arts as a way of life means more to me than martial arts as a fighting art. Im happy and martial arts is all about having fun, and Im pretty confident that I can defend myself. I am a realist however and do know that i am human and no matter how much I train, or know I can and will be beaten by any given MAN on any given day. To claim otherwise is redundant, if not insane. I think alot of times the martial arts gives this great false sense of security to people that its going to make them killers and all mighty and thats not the point at all. Trust me I just know this first hand, I happen to work in a line of work that is very "hands-on" and I know what usually works and what does not.
Again thanks and please dont take my comments as harsh or irrational behavior because it is not my intentions as others to make enemies, I'm just stating my opinion. Happy training
"I will say this, Martial arts as a way of life means more to me than martial arts as a fighting art. Im happy and martial arts is all about having fun"
Thats great. I totally respect that. We are just on different sides of the fence.
My thing, is that there are many people that are looking at martial arts as a fighting art, and they are being mislead into thinking that what they are doing is a good choice for that route. I'm just trying to help those people find the best route for that type of goal.
The reason i'm so into that, is that I was mislead for years, and i'm so glad that someone slap some sense into me to help me find the path that leads to what I'm looking for. Just trying to help others that were in the same situation.
I got nothing against people that are in it for pure enjoyment. My problem is when people are in it for the fighting aspect but walking down the enjoyment path thinking that, that path leads to great fighting skill.
You might want to check out some WunHopKuneDo if its in your area. That was one of the more enjoyable arts I have seen. They got forms, and lots of drills and training methods, which are useless for fighting, but are a hell of allot of fun! That style is great at making you look like something out of a kung fu movie.
there's a thing called modify. It can be applied to a lot of martial arts. Some say TKD is ineffective. Well find out why and change it or modify rather. Just a thought.
"there's a thing called modify. It can be applied to a lot of martial arts. Some say TKD is ineffective. Well find out why and change it or modify rather. Just a thought. "
I disagree for the most part. Often the core, basic principles or foundation of an art is bad. In that case best just to throw the whole thing away.
This message has been edited by OneScoup on Aug 17, 2003 12:25 AM
Hey guys did you ever hear of Morihei Ueshiba? He was considered one of the greatest martial arts masters of the 20th century. Nobody could defeat him. You know what style he was? Aikido! The style that some of you'se knock. When people asked Bruce Lee what the most effective style was, he didn't say Muay Thai, Wing Chun, or even Jeet Kune Do. He said there is no such thing as an effective segment of a totality meaning there is no superior style! Taekowndo's kicks are superior to Jeet Kune Do's kicks, but there is no ground fighting and their hands suck. Jeet Kune Do works great with the centerline type of fighting but what happens when a JKD man fight a capoeria practioner whose all over the place and unpredictable? Boxing is the best with punching like Taekwondo and is great with kicking, but outside of those two arts, what else do they have? BJJ fighters are great when you are stuck in an octagon with rules that favor the groundfighter but what happens if the guy you are fighting has a weapon or lots of friends? Big difference.
"Thats great. I totally respect that. We are just on different sides of the fence."
> Yes, I agree there is where we disagree.
"My thing, is that there are many people that are looking at martial arts as a fighting art, and they are being mislead into thinking that what they are doing is a good choice for that route. I'm just trying to help those people find the best route for that type of goal."
> Yes, I can relate as an instructor of the Martial Arts I do have students that want to learn to fight or protect themselves. However since Im a black belt in American Karate-Do, and I do have a very extensive back ground in other martial arts such as Kali,Eskrima,Silat,JKD,AikiJutsu,boxing,kickboxing, and many others. Since I have had or continue my exposure to these arts I dont' rule out any of them as something that is functional for them that may not be functional for me. Where Im at in Small town USA is a primarily TKD and Karate town. I however am the only person that Im aware of that has the exposure to these other arts. I got involved in many years ago living in another city, and now continue my training w/ my teacher by traveling to him and my other peers school and to his seminars etc...but what I usually teach, is taught to our Karate schools black belts who already have a good idea how to defend themselves. See I do what I do for the fun and enjoyment of seeing others enjoy what I have to offer. Myself and 3 other bb in our school are local LEO's and some corrections officers and we have mixed alot of our stuff together w/ Police Tactics PPCT course to come up wth a good idea of what works. However if I had ever had to fight in a NHBring then things would defenitly have to be changed up. But I dont see that in the future for me.
"The reason i'm so into that, is that I was mislead for years, and i'm so glad that someone slap some sense into me to help me find the path that leads to what I'm looking for. Just trying to help others that were in the same situation."
>>I can understand and respect that.. I hope it all works out well for you..
"I got nothing against people that are in it for pure enjoyment. My problem is when people are in it for the fighting aspect but walking down the enjoyment path thinking that, that path leads to great fighting skill."
Well again, their has to be enjoyment in it or most of us wouldnt be in it. I think for me as I got older and more wiser I have come to realize that thier are three types of people in the martial arts.
1. Is that guy who wants to learn to be a bad ass and he either A)succeeds and goes into some side of the sport aspect. or B) thinks he's a bad ass and realizes his training was poor and gets his ass handed to him.
2. Is the guy that wants to learn to teach and later make a living from martial arts and either succeeds or fails.
3. The guy that loves martial arts to the extreme that he doesnt choose a path with the martial arts, it chooses him. And this person is a lifetime student that accepts the greats of it all and wants to never stop learning and experience it in a whole. Its a way of life for him to share, to accept and to entrust. It's this persons goal to keep the traditions of the arts alive and pass it on to those that are willing to do the same, so it may stay alive for hundreds of years to come. And he becomes a great martial artist mentally and physically because of the endevourment he put into it.
I find myself in that 3rd category.
"You might want to check out some WunHopKuneDo if its in your area. That was one of the more enjoyable arts I have seen. They got forms, and lots of drills and training methods, which are useless for fighting, but are a hell of allot of fun! That style is great at making you look like something out of a kung fu movie."
HAHA cool thanks for the heads up....i'll check it out. I've heard of it, and seen videos etc....but as far as it being around here.. Its not..but I may one day run into it. Who knows.
and in closing I read this...from another poster:
"tae kwon do has the most telegraphed kicks i've ever seen. i prefer savate to tae kwon do"
Althouh I like Savate I also like TKD for thier KICKS. As it said TKD has some great kicks. I respect your opinion.. all I ask is you spar a "GOOD" TKD guy not a mediocre or someone who is a half assed TKD guy...but go to these Olympic style Tournaments and ask to spar one of these quality TKD'st. You may be surprised. I know I was... A good TKD can whoop the **** out of you with thier feet if they've trained hard and made it work for them. Look at Bill Wallce...he had some incredible kicking.. Still does.
WOW I rambled on in this one. GOtta go guys....have a small aftrnoon training group. be well and train hard.
I dont think Capoire is toatlly useless for self defesne, infact it has alot of merit to it. For instance they they use elbows and head butts quit alot, and thier kicks are quit powerful. Not all Capoire is breakdancing crap.
I'd say pick one martial art to train in, 2-3 times per week, and "cross train" in powerlifting and olympic lifting for gains in strength and power without adding muscular size/weight.
