It's not a "fight" or competitive match. This was part of BL's demo at Ed Parker's Long Beach Nationals in the "way back". It was interesting because people just didn't do much in the way of real contact sparring in those days (though the so-called "point" fighting got kinda rough at times). It's also interesting because Bruce fights in this exhibition the way he fought in Enter The Dragon (same type of body movement, etc).
I've seen this footage before, and ya know what? It's simply not that impressive. I always wonder just how good Bruce really was. Obviously, by standards 25 years ago, he was a super badass. But I think today's mixed martial artists would beat the piss outta him.
Just my opinion... but you'd better listen to it because I'm NEVER wrong.
In all honesty Mark (and since this is the internet it's hard to tell if you are joking), Bruce was holding back an extreme amount. Basically, he was playing around with them, cause if he went full out, few would have seen what he did, and it wouldn't be much of a show, would it? Plus, it would have ended bad for his sparring partners. Do you seriously think Bruce would have thrown a high kick in a real fight? That why he was an amazing action star. He knew what looked good to people, but when it came down to it, he would never let the fight last more than two or three movements.
One excellent 3rd generation JKD instructor, coming up.
yah I just wanted to give this guy a jab or two
Ninja huh?
better wear my special shurikan proof vest huh?
LOL
When it comes down to it!
Who knows who could beat bruce now, there are some really great fighters out there right now , but that can still stop a bullet with that thick skull
all the toughness in the world will not defend you against lead poisoning with someone with a glock and many rounds at 10 feet. Macho goes right out the window
This message has been edited by nwfish on Sep 14, 2003 11:25 PM
Bruce Lee was a show boater
but when it came to real combat watch the hell out!
There was a reference to Bruce going into a Fencing stance
Bruce incorporated fencing feetwork into JKD and I took it to better understand his ideals for faster quick advance and retreats ect.
It works well with JKD and I would suggest that everyone try it!
He was so dominent over this guy that he could hold his hand out ect. In real life in Combat his hands were never still! I like his interceptions in this video!
NWFISH
This message has been edited by nwfish on Sep 15, 2003 2:14 AM
haha, bruce is double sexy in that video. wat a beast damn. i'd hate to be put in a ring with him.
He wasn't the aggressor either. He was just demonstrating the "intercepting fist" or Jeet Kun Do. Imagine if he was the aggressor.
And ever notice that whenver his opponent goes for a kick, Bruce always kicks him in the stomach and then the guy is a little stunned for a short while. Many times he won't move until his opponent moves. While his opponent is attacking, he'll attack first, intercepting the other guy's technique. Look at his speed. Look at how quickly his foot is up and then down again ready to defend.
This message has been edited by Stranggler on Sep 15, 2003 2:23 AM This message has been edited by Stranggler on Sep 15, 2003 2:21 AM
did anyone notice that when Bruce had his hand out like that with no telegraphics how fast it was?
so close to the face anyways! He was crafty, He also knew this guy was no match, and that is why he kept his hand out I believe. Closer to the target also.
look at the interception and burst of speed, the guy could hit you with unbelievable power with many blows very quickly!
Interception is Key also and Bruce stopped almost every intention this guy had!
It was just sparring or it would have only lasted a couple of blows
and kicking to the head is great for combat!
I am very quick and an excellent kicker, every kick that lands devistates and head shots are easy and an instant knock out!
Like a 30 inch arm coming off of the floor at you!
I have seen that footage before, but I would very much appreciate it if someone would "REPOST THE LINK" so that I can download the clip on to my computer. Any way, yeah, that was just a demonstration. The guy who was intercepting is Bruce Lee. The guy who is being intercepted is Dan Inosanto, who was a Ed Parker student at the time. Bruce Lee, Dan Inosanto, and Ed Parker were friends... This was not a fight. This was an introduction to "contact" fighting.
Finally some truth. I must say I completely agree with Mike Descado on this matter. BLs roundhouse lacked any power at all, even if he was holding back the form of the kick lacked the ability to apply power. Anyone who can doa roundhouse properly can show power with following through. BL is simply stretching his leg up like an amature.
He has no follow up in his technique, he hit once maybe three at most and then stops. No pro does that. You do not stop untill your opponent gives up. Ok you will say this is a demonstration, but if I was demonstrating my art I would not mislead people into believing that you stop after a couple of hits regardless of whether you opponent has given up.
His movements were start stop and rigid, not the fluid he elludes to in his writings or interviews. You can see where one move starts and finishes. There is a lot of wing chun in his movement.
I agree that Lee was dominating this fight, however his opponents were rubbish. They had no sense of timing at all, just jumped right in. Of course any half way descent martial artist could stop kick them in the stomach. Hell I stopped kicked a Pro thai boxer (former kickboxing champ) as aswell as roundhouse him to the head (to name but one example) does that make me a great fighter? No it does not.
LOL, if you guys think this is a high standard then you really have a lot to learn about martial arts lol. I agree with Mike 30 years ago this might have been **** hot in the western MA scene, but there is no way at this skill level would he be anything special on todays scene.
Having said all this, I wonder when this was taken. If it was in his early 20s it would explain his lack of fluidity, but if it was his late 20s well then it is a shame, cause for me a legend just got permanently buried.
First off Bruce used a round kick more for speed than for power. When you aren't trying to break shins with it that's fine. Besides you have no way to tell how powerfull any strike is just by "looking" at it. Looks can be deceiving.
Second the point of this demo was NOT to take these opponents out. These guys were he students after all. (DUH!) This was a demo on interception/counter attack. That should be obvious, but I guess it's not. The main thing to get from this is how to control distance immediately counter rather than "block and strike". You can kick a Muy Thai fighter? Fine. Now when you're both moving around can you consistently and repeatedly counterstrike without getting hit?
And if you think that Bruce didn't know about combos, don't forget that he coached 3 top rated full contact fighters.
"Besides you have no way to tell how powerfull any strike is just by "looking" at it. Looks can be deceiving." Actually you can, or at least I can my Sifu definately can and we are not the only ones. You see the movement of the leg to tell whether or not it has the momentum in the right direction and also you see the effect on the recieving end (although in a demonstration the latter may not occur the former still holds true).
"Second the point of this demo was NOT to take these opponents out. These guys were he students after all. (DUH!)"
I thought that at this time they were not his students and in fact students of his friend Ed Parker. Secondly I was under the impression that Lee was quite hard on his students.
"This was a demo on interception/counter attack. That should be obvious, but I guess it's not." I thought it was a demonstration of full contact sparring.
"You can kick a Muy Thai fighter? Fine. Now when you're both moving around can you consistently and repeatedly counterstrike without getting hit?" It depends on the quality of the fighter. My Muay Thai friend is not as stupid as the guy in fighting Lee he did not just jump in. He understands the basic concepts of timing. I have however done that to other less talented fighters, still does not make me great. Oh and actually for most of the time I sparred with my Thai boxer mate he did not hit me.
"And if you think that Bruce didn't know about combos, don't forget that he coached 3 top rated full contact fighters." One of the most succesful Soccer teams in the world is Manchester United. It is managed by an ex pro footballer. However he was never really famous for his skills as a player. This is a very simple concept.
I have never seen Joe Lewis in action (but what I have heared him say I respect), but we have all seen Chuck Noris films. Of course films do not necessarily reflect fighting talent, but that guy was as stiff as a board. He was champion several times, only reflects how bad his opponents were not how good he was.
My point is not to make BL out to be rubbish, far from it he obviously has talent, but this demonstration of his talent reflects the quality of that time in the US. What is essential to take from this is that western martial arts has moved on from this era. Those people who veiw this standard as high are stuck in the past. I could hold off my 6 year old nephew with one hand but it is no demonstration of how to fight.
Trust me. There's no way you can tell how powerfull a strike is by looking at it. There's more to strike power than simply "momentum". I've "seen" strikes that didn't look powerfull (one inch punch demos come to mind) but I've later FELT more power in them. If you've never experienced this, you need to.
So now you know that these were not Bruce Lee's students. And while Bruce may have at times been hard on his students, that doesn't mean he was ALWAYS hard on them.
If your Muy Thai friend can't score on you then perhaps he just sucks. I never said it meant you were great. And perhaps his opponents just suck worse.
Your "Manchester United Coach" story really proves nothing. Like I said, the fact that Bruce trained champs proves that he understood the CONCEPT of combos. Throwing a combo after you've initially hit someone really isn't hard so that is really no proof of skill. It's something you do when you need to. In the case of these demos he didn't need to.
The double standard you're applying via Chuck Norris is also interesting. When Bruce showed skill in movies people say "that's just movies. It proves nothing". When Chuck Norris actually won championships you say "He looks stiff in the movies. Therefore his championships mean nothing". Make up your mind.
For one thing Bruce Lee didnt train for sport he trained for the street maybe in the ring with the rules you may be right some light weight mma might be able to take bruce. I mean really do any of us really know what bruce could do in a real fight. I think in his demo he did what he set out to do in that particular setting nothing more nothing less he did a lot of intercepting it was more like a continuos point sparring match he wasnt trying to hurt anybody or vice versa in was a demo that was all it was. The guy had more power then most guys bigger them him i am sure most of you have seen the clip with his 300lb hanging bag that he rock when he hit it yes i know the bag dosent hit back you tell me do you think if he connected to your jaw i think it would rock you pretty good. None of us will ever know. If he was still alive today i think he would be a little old to be in the mma events anyways. I think that video clip is could for a person who is in the point sparring circut i think there is a lot of good things there to watch but if your a mma your not going to appreciate what he was proving for obvious reasons.
I watched a show on Martial Arts on the Knowledge network, I think it was called, "Extreme Martial Arts". Anyways, these computer guys had these sensors on some type of heavey bag, it read how powerfull a martial artist can perform a kick. The martial artist round-housed kicked this bag and the reading was over 1000 pounds of pressure on one spot. His shin smashing into the heavy bag was comparable to a car crashing into another vehicle. However, in a fight, on a moving target, I don't believe these types of pressures are present, if they were, someone would die in the ring, or on the street, 90% of the time. Maybe if your opponent was dazed and punch drunk, then you could kick him with that type of power.
So, next time you smack your heavy bag around, think of it as a 200 pound, drunk war vet with no legs or arms, hung by a rope, to your ceiling.
"Trust me. There's no way you can tell how powerfull a strike is by looking at it." It is not you I need to trust in this, it is myself. This is a circular point, unless we get together and I show you you will not beleive me.
"There's more to strike power than simply "momentum". I've "seen" strikes that didn't look powerfull (one inch punch demos come to mind) but I've later FELT more power in them. If you've never experienced this, you need to."
You assume way to much, my friend. I did not suggest what you imply here. Infact often people look at me and can not see power it is only when they feel me hit them that they gain some respect. I try to cultivate the art of relaxed power in myself, this is not a lecture you need to give me. Just because I suggest Lee has no power in his kick does not mean I lack the knowledge to assertain what power is.
"If your Muy Thai friend can't score on you then perhaps he just sucks. I never said it meant you were great. And perhaps his opponents just suck worse." Perhaps, but then maybe all the people he beat to get his belt sucked too. this is not the point I was making, I simply suggest that the opponents of Lee did not have the basics so it is not a good test of Lee Skills.
"Throwing a combo after you've initially hit someone really isn't hard so that is really no proof of skill. It's something you do when you need to. In the case of these demos he didn't need to."
Throwing combos is easy, doing them effectively is not. To understand a concept is not the same as being able to apply a concept. I am sure many of us understand the concept of blanking ones mind but how many can? Also in a demonstration of your art sure it is necessary to show what you do? You give a simular argument to the traditionalist "I can do more if I have too, but I am not going to."
"The double standard you're applying via Chuck Norris is also interesting. When Bruce showed skill in movies people say "that's just movies. It proves nothing". When Chuck Norris actually won championships you say "He looks stiff in the movies. Therefore his championships mean nothing". Make up your mind."
Actually no double standards here at all. I have made this judgement of Lee based on this footage of him doing a demostration of fighting skill not acting. And if we compare Lees Movie performance and Norris; lee looks better in the films, that I am sure we can agree on. Now it is generally assumed that Lee is a better fighter than Norris, which would suggest from the evidence of this footage and the movies that Norris is rubbish.
To me the championships do mean nothing. I have not seen his tournaments, but from what I understand the calibre of opponents where not that high. Certainly no where near that of modern day NHB. The competition Karate I have seen is rubbish. and these where international fights.
Anyway my point is simply that Bruce Lee as a fighter aint all that. Unfortunately for us he not with us.
Question everything, Know nothing.
This message has been edited by kjax on Jun 4, 2004 8:51 PM
Current Topic - Bruce Lee Sparring Vid Clip!!! (link)
