Here's a technique I learned a short while ago from a friend of mine that picked it up somewhere (he takes JKDC, BJJ, and Muay Thai). The first time I experienced it was when my friend half did it during a sparring match, I was overwhelmed. I'm also the one who gave it its name. Though the technique is not anything secret or special, the name is nothing more then a reference. Do to it's extreme lethality and dirtiness using it to its full potential during sparring should NOT under any circumstances be done. This is strictly for real self-defense.
The grinder is a very simple technique. It’s also no doubt the dirtiest I've ever seen. When grinding you place both hands on your opponents head and start applying pressure (on spots like the nose, sinus cavaties, temple, etc.) while violently moving his head around. In a real fight you’d be gouging the eyes, applying tons of pressure on the nose to break it, ripping ears, and tearing lips (for example, fish hooking). At the same time your manipulating his head around every which way to create lot’s of confusion. So imagine getting the side of your mouth ripped open, your ear ripped off, your nose broke, both eyes gouged, and great pain on the neck and head from all the pressure and manipulation. This may not be a fight ender but after executing it their will be very little, if anything, to stop you from finishing the fight. Think of it almost like the dirty version of the clinch.
Opinions?
This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Jan 13, 2004 12:11 AM
Although it sounds good, you fail to take into account that your opponent can move his head and where are his hands. If you have incopacitated his hands some how and he can not riggle out (many counters to move someone off you) then why not just punch or elbow him, it will break his nose instantly. That is more likely to end the fight. If you want to rip his ear off as oppose to simply beat him, then that is something different.
Jack, do you really think you'll have any accuracy or power in your punch when there are fingers stuck in your eyes, fish hooking your lip, tearing your ear, breaking the nose, and voilent head manipulation? The body follows the head, ALWAYS! You could for example jerk him into you when he attempts the punch while applying even more pressure.
So let's count how many versions of the Shredder have popped up so far: The grinder, razing & mazing. Three. Not bad. Wonder when the tearer and the ripper will come up?
Sean, I think Senshido is where my friend picked up this technique. He didn't know what it was called so I gave it a name. I think grinder sounds better then shredder anyway.
I think you are miss reading my post masame or maybe I did not understand what you are saying in the first post.
I think you said that when you are grappling an opponent you aplly pressure on his face and do other things like fish hooking etc. To this I replied that instead of this why not punch or elbow them. If this is what you are replying to. Then yes my punch or elbow would have accuracy. I never throw a punch or elbow unless I know it will hit. Besides if you can put your hands on their face you can elbow them.
If you are saying that the opponent is fish hooking you etc, then yes there are still many things you can do, depending on the position of the opponent e.g. if he in mount position and grinding you (yeah baby), then you could try such things as elevators. They can not apply pressure if they are off balance. If the opponent is fich hooking you, then bite his finger off, its already in your mouth. If the fingers up your nose, bit more difficult to bite, but still other parts of the body to attack.
If your hands are trying to manipulate my head, then my head is not going to be doing the resisting, my hands will be manipulating yours.
It sounds like a distraction technique that you describe and I would agree with you that it certainly is not a finisher, so I personally would not get caught up in it. Find the finish quick.
Oh brother. First off, it takes very little pressure to apply TONS of pain when grinding. And OK there Mr. Invincible, try to use an elevator or something when your eyes are being completely peirced, ears being ripped right off, etc. Counters to it? NO SH!T, there's a counter to EVERYTHING. But it's rare to be able to counter after you start getting grinded. Keep in mind when grinding you go as crazy and as fast as possible. A good grind would last several seconds, no more. Why not elbow instead? Simple, after successfully grinding his face, you can elbow with 99% effeciency. He has arms that will grab yours? OK so jerk his head around, doesn't matter how strong you are the body will follow the head. Then you apply more pressure and he completely forgets what he has to do. Buddy my friend did a light version of grinding on me while sparring and I was overwhealmed. Don't think people have this much tolerance to pain. Cause they don't. Lastly because of where your hands are when grinding, it sets up one of the most leathal attacks: The neck break.
Notice how I said that the grinder is NOT a fight finisher. But it can be (no one is going to continue fighting after getting an ear ripped off and an eye ball utterly destroyed, perhaps an eye lid torn off, OUCH!). It's almost like the finger jabs big brother. Are you saying finger jabs aren't effective either?
This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Jan 13, 2004 7:19 PM
Oh btw, fish hooking is not a lock or submission on the street. Even if it was you'd be pulling his cheek and he wouldn't be able to bite your finger since it would be far away from the teeth. But on the street a fish hook is a rip. You don't keep your finger there, you put it their and rip the side of his mouth open.
sean madigan you damn moron, any art that teaches the clinch automatically teaches this "new technique". I learnt something similar to this many years ago from my father who was in the airforce. The main principle was that if you have the head, you have their whole body.
It's simply going into the clinch grabbing their head and rolling it around everywhere, whilst simultaneously hitting elbowing or eye gouging or fish hooking whatever. Main goal is to get their head swinging everywhere so they can't use the wrest of their body, keeping them off balance is the key.
Seriously sean, your acting as if this is some "new found technique" when it's as old as any art that teaches head manipulation from clinch range.
LOL, does it drive you crazy that everybody laughs at you? You poor dumb son of a whore, I really feel for you, you try so hard to get respect, and you just prove what a piece of garbage you truely are with each and every post.
So...back to the lab again, whooops there goes jiyasa again...LOL
Hey, how is that great forum and website you run doing?
jiy*******, STFU you little bitch. You know nothing and are nothing and your opinion is worth as much as the toilet paper I wipe my ass with you little ****. Sean is ten times the man you can ever hope to be. Don't bother typing anything back cause it won't mean ****e either, so go back to sucking nut sacks and licking butt cracks bitch.
Masamune, give credit where its due so you can come across a little more credible and intelligent and put a little research into what your discussing. It's the Shredder and not a grinder or ripper or tiger claw kung fu either, there's a whole system to it, pick up the tape and learn it properly. There's no shame in saying you learned it from someone else. As a matter of fact, it lends credibility to your persona because it shows you took the time to research something.
In case you havn't noticed, I said I did learn it from someone else moron. There's a complex science behind it? Please, its clinching while using foul tactics. It's so great because it's so simple, if their was a super-complex system to do it, it would defeat the purpose of the technique. Grinder, shredder, who the f*ck cares. Like Bruce Lee said "It's a name, don't fuss over it." Damn some people are just dumb. When someone needs to resort to nothing but profanity and cussing to argue (toward Naz) then it really shows how mature and intelligent you are. Go study shredding/grinding/eagle claw whatever, spend years learning one of the simplest techniques their is. Whole system behind it, LOL! All you need is sensitivity and strong fingers.
This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Jan 13, 2004 11:20 PM This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Jan 13, 2004 11:17 PM
Yup. If the shoe fits, wear it chump. You just proved the level of ignorance in which you dwell in. Actually, stupidity is a better word. You're just another little idiot who likes to throw Bruce Lee quotes around sigh. Ok braniac, I'll leave you to teaching your new grinder technique oh innovative one. I was just trying to save you a little embarassment cause you're coming off like an amateur little girl still wet behind the ears and smelling like pipi. Best of luck, let us all know when your next seminar on the grinder is. In case you want to catch the next Shredder one, Mr. Dimitri will be in London England teaching it at the end of this month Come to think of it sonny boy, if it was so simple why the fuk hasn't anyone else thought of it prior to Mr. Dimitri and why are people around the world demanding seminars on the subject and purchasing so many of his tapes and praising the Shredder? Must be cause their not all as brilliant and highly educated as you hunh? YUK YUK YUK!
If you are talking to me, save it. I was simply adding to a quote by Masume(it is in quotation marks) "Damn, some people are just dumb". It was edited just now so perhaps you misinterpeted it.
I hear ya and I don't blame ya. We're cool. It just irks me to see some punk lift someone elses materials and hard work, not even have a fundamental understanding of it and claim it as his own then simply throw out some Bruce Lee quotes to justify his plagiarism and lack of originality like it makes it all ok.
WOW, big f*ckin whoop! There is absolutely NOTHING new on that site. It's foul tactics, simple as that you idiot. It's a natural technique anyone can do. No one created it, it was always there. The only credit I'm taking is from the natural movement of the human body. There's some deep science behind it? OK then why don't you explain it to me smartass. Hell even if there was then it's Senshido's (or whatever the hell it's called) shredder. Not the grinder. Kinda like comparing the straight blast to the boxing blast. However I still doubt there's any big science to it besides sensitivity.
No one else has thought of it? No one else has ever gouged a persons eyes, fish hooked them, ripped ears, broken noses, crushed necks, etc.? LOL, MORON! MORON! MORON! YOU ARE SUCH A F*CKING MORON! Wake up dumbass, Dimitri or whatever his name is didn't invent sh!t, it was always there. And when did I ever say I invented it? Geez learn to read you illiterate fool.
Throw Bruce Lee quotes around? I said one thing, and you act like I put a quote in every post I make. You are a sad, pathetic individual who seems to get a kick out of arguing and starting sh!t for no reason. Go back to school and see if you can raise your I.Q. to at least a positive number.
Some people are just dumb.
This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Jan 14, 2004 12:15 AM This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Jan 14, 2004 12:12 AM This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Jan 14, 2004 12:10 AM This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Jan 14, 2004 12:07 AM This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Jan 14, 2004 12:00 AM
Now that's a come back sonny boy! LOL! Good stuff, good stuff. I was wondering how long it would take me to ruffle your feathers. Tell me, did ya punch the screen? I always give myself a few points when I get em to hit their screens. :D
Ok, so you're young and clueless, it's cool. Didn't mean to come down on ya so hard champ ya can go cool off and have yourself a glass o' koolaid little one. Go grind in peace bub. I'm out this joint.
Hmmm... Ok let's hear some opinions from the people on web kwoon. Who poses a better arguement? A person that states facts and specific information, actually attempting to have an intelligent debate (me). Or a person who spews random insults and then acts sarcastic and like a know-it-all who can't seem to argue any of the points I make because he's so obviously lost the debate (sencfa). What a loser. Once again, man some people are just dumb!
This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Jan 14, 2004 12:25 AM This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Jan 14, 2004 12:23 AM
Oh no! He's insulting the fact I edited my post! I'm emotionally scarred for life!
Btw, in your second post if your trying to suck up to me because you know you lost, don't bother. If your just being a sarcastic wod, then good job! You sad f*ck.
Don't worry, masamune, "secnfacs" or whatever the hell he/she/it's name is is simply some 12 year old. You can tell by the "STFU" he wrote to me. Anyone that uses that type of "1337" talk is a bigger moron than sean madigan.
I knew a guy that used to be like you and sean, but then he realised he didn't want a career bagging people's groceries.
Want to know why that is so funny? Who cares, get me another coffee.
jiyasa, quit being such a pussy man. You reek of insecurity and everyone knows it. It's ok that you have a 2 inch dick, it's not the size that matters. Coffee's coming in a minute, sit there and wait.
Masamune, why don't you also rip off Tony Blauer's SPEAR (spontaneous protection enabling accelerated response) system and call it the SWORD (spontaneous way of protecting from danger) since reacting from the flinch is also something that everyone's been doing since the dawn of man? Hell, why don't you claim you discovered America as well, I mean it was always there even before Columbus discovered it yet History gave him the credit for it. Buuuut, you're obviously retarded and couldn't grasp that.
You and jiyasa should tag team together since you're both so bright, maybe you can put both the specs in your head you refer to as a brain and come up with another ingenius process and cheer together like the 2 little bitches that you are and suck each other's dicks for the grand new discoveries. Boy how old are you exactly?
LOL, look who's the insecure one. You even changed the way you type to make yourself look half intelligent. But we all know that your a dumbass on the inside.
Mas and Naz you guys should do a little research before you trash talk. If you check out Senshido.com with an open mind you will begin to understand because right now you are coming across as quite ignorant.
"Grinder", "Shredder", "Eagle Claw", and... It’s just a name, don’t fuss over it, and just remember that there is nothing new under the sun.
Out of all people, I though B.I.G. Sean Madigan would have learned this. I think his ego got the better of him when he tried to point the finger. haha! Oh well, good luck with what ever you’re trying to do these days. Keep Blasting! Or Smashing!; or whatever you call it these days.
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Here is "Grinders" Older cousin. Notice the use of pressing against the Chin while in Close Quarters, and as stated, gouge your opponents eyes at the same time. This would be a good Concept to use with the "Shredder". (Click Link)
How the hell is listing a technique come across as "ignorant" you dolt?
YOU GUYS are the ignorant ones. Masamune merely suggested a move he had learnt where you control the head, and you guys have a psycho saying that he "stole" it, acting as if it's some rare technique that only one martial art teaches. you guys sound like karate boys "you stole my secret reverse punch technique!!"
I'm glad to see there's at least one intelligent person on this forum (naz). My gosh Naz! I learned the most powerful and super secret technique EVER! It's been kept in the dark in the Shaolin temples for generations! THE EYE GOUGE! LOL!
This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Jan 15, 2004 12:52 AM
