after workouts I like to relax by smoking a bowl of marijuana, out of a bong, the bong water filters out 85 percent of TAR from there, I was just wondering if marijuana have any extremely bad effects when it comes to trying to get a nice physique
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA! Give it up now, friend. Pot I mean. I did it for awhile, and I can tell you from first hand experience, it ain't gonna help you get a good physique, and it certainly isn't gonna help you if you are even half serious about martial arts. It can expand your mind in isolated, infrequent uses with meditation, but if you are even the slightest bit regular about using, you are going to fry your brain. Trust me. I KNOW! In fact, just to be safe, you are better off not using it at all. I don't anymore either. And for your query regarding bong water, that actually does not make a significant difference in the amounts of myriad carcinogens in the smoke. ANy kind of smoke is bad for the lungs, if you even want to consider using the illegal yet happy little plant, the safest way(healthwise) is to eat it. In cookies, brownies, etc. But know this, I am not condoning its use. If you are smart, you will stay away from it. And in the case that you are just screwing with me, well at least you got all this cool information! Peace!
P.S. the purpose of bong water is to cool the smoke so that it expands when it reaches your lungs, thus getting you extremely baked! Not to filter the smoke!
This message has been edited by Zub-Zub on Feb 18, 2004 3:02 AM This message has been edited by Zub-Zub on Feb 18, 2004 3:01 AM This message has been edited by Zub-Zub on Feb 18, 2004 2:59 AM
A post like this should not be done. One pot is not legal. And The M/A has NO room for drugs. Training takes dedication and A life time. To alter the mind is not meant to be. So You might think of either giving up pot or your M/A training.
This post is just disgusting! As Robert said, drug use and abuse have no place whatsoever in the martial arts! I believe in nutritional supplementation, but I don't take anything that can't be purchased at the neighborhood nutrition store! Drugs, alcohol and tobacco have absolutely no place in the life or daily routine of a skilled martial artist! I have gone forty-six years without ever even trying any of it, and believe me, I am much better off for it! Straighten your life up or eventually die from drug abuse or go to jail! It's just that simple!
Keep Blasting!
Sifu Lamar M. Davis II
Head Instructor/Founder
Hardcore Jeet Kune Do Academy
Hardcore Jeet Kune Do Chinese Gung Fu Association http://www.HardcoreJKD.com http://www.RealCombatOnline.com
Sifu@HardcoreJKD.com
Phone (205) 956-1901
All this talk about getting loaded has gotten me mighty keyed up to do some drinking.
Let's look at the variables. I get off from work in about 22 minutes... I've got about a half a fifth of Vodka in the freezer at home... I can pick up some Propell fitness water from the convenience store next door on my way out... My new, female, mountain-biking, hippie neighbor said she might come over... Hmmm...
Alas, I'm supposed to work out with Kyle at 7:00.
Lemme' tell ya how this will play out, 'cause there's only one of two possibilities. A) Kyle will be ready to rock when I get home, and we'll go up to our new, kick ass training space down the street and mix it up. Or B) Kyle will be laying on the couch when I get home, a sure sign that he doesn't want to do anything but watch TV.
Even though I don't really feel like working out tonight either, I'll make fun of him just enough to make him feel like a loser, but not quite enough to make him get off the couch. As such, I won't feel bad about mixing a drink or ten and stabbing out another story for the website.
NO!!! I have NEVER, in all of my forty-six years on this earth, tasted alcohol, smoked anything, or even tried any drugs of an illegal nature! NEVER, and I do not intend to! It is (1) stupid, (2) unhealthy, (3) dangerous, and has caused the ruining of many lives!
Keep Blasting!
Sifu Lamar M. Davis II
Head Instructor/Founder
Hardcore Jeet Kune Do Academy
Hardcore Jeet Kune Do Chinese Gung Fu Association http://www.HardcoreJKD.com http://www.RealCombatOnline.com
Sifu@HardcoreJKD.com
Phone (205) 956-1901
"Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit First - ALWAYS!"
This message has been edited by Sifu Lamar M. Davis II on Feb 19, 2004 1:26 AM
Some of these arguments remind me of the South Park episode on drugs. In one scene there is a fat hick in a wife beater going off about the dangers of drug use and then says "and having never taken drugs I can say they have nothing to offer."
Marijuana is not bad and will not lead to a life of crime and ruin. You will not go to jail or die because you smoked marijuana. In fact if you get caught with it you pay a little fine and don't even have to go to court.
The scientific info on the effects of marijuana is skewed because it is funded by people with an agenda to prove from the beginning. Marijuana is one of the greatest substances on the planet. You can make the strongest rope with it, clothing, cooking oil, lotion, one acre can produce more paper than over 5 acres of trees. Oh yeah and you can get completely stoned which George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and yes Bruce Lee did. Bruce of course ate the cookies to keep his aerobic capacity.
The idea spouted by people that have never smoked it that you will end up dead or in jail or addicted is absolutely freakin hilarious. It has no addictive properties whatsoever and it is IMPOSSIBLE to overdose on. The only reason it is called a nasty drug and is currently illeagle has to do with a propaganda campaign began in the 30's by Hearst newspapers. Hearst having a huge investment in the cotton industry wanted to do away with hemp so he began printing completely made up stories of people high on weed going nuts and killing people and commiting crime. Hearst new that hemp was more versatile than cotton but since it was so abundant there wasn't nearly the return on investment that there was in cotton.
So all of you classifying pot with all the other drugs out there shut the F up because you have no clue what you are talking about and have not done the research.
NO, you shut the "F' up! Drugs of any kind, especially mood altering drugs, are not in any way whatsoever good for you! You are a complete idiot to believe otherwise! Drug use is a sign of a weak mind, low self esteem and pathetic self discipline! Anyone who is involved in martial arts and uses drugs has some serious problems! THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE!
Keep Blasting!
Sifu Lamar M. Davis II
Head Instructor/Founder
Hardcore Jeet Kune Do Academy
Hardcore Jeet Kune Do Chinese Gung Fu Association http://www.HardcoreJKD.com http://www.RealCombatOnline.com
Sifu@HardcoreJKD.com
Phone (205) 956-1901
Nonetheless, it would be fallacious to conclude that because the chemicals in marijuana have been found to present fewer dangers than some very harmful substances, the medical or recreational use of marijuana is perfectly safe. In a recreational context, marijuana has been shown to affect health, brain function, and memory. And in a medical context, marijuana is like any other powerful prescription drug: it has potentially dangerous side effects, and the decision to use it to treat patients must involve the same balancing test as the one required for chemotherapy or AZT: do the therapeutic effects of the drug outweigh its harmful effects? Though there are many more studies to be done on this issue, current data shows that the answer to this question may not always be "yes."
EFFECTS OF HABITUAL MARIJUANA USE ON THE IMMUNE SYSTEM
The most potent argument against the use of marijuana to treat medical disorders is that marijuana may cause the acceleration or aggravation of the very disorders it is being used to treat.
Smoking marijuana regularly (a joint a day) can damage the cells in the bronchial passages which protect the body against inhaled microorganisms and decrease the ability of the immune cells in the lungs to fight off fungi, bacteria, and tumor cells. For patients with already weakened immune systems, this means an increase in the possibility of dangerous pulmonary infections, including pneumonia, which often proves fatal in AIDS patients.
Studies further suggest that marijuana is a general "immunosuppressant" whose degenerative influence extends beyond the respiratory system. Regular smoking has been shown to materially affect the overall ability of the smoker’s body to defend itself against infection by weakening various natural immune mechanisms, including macrophages (a.k.a. "killer cells") and the all-important T-cells. Obviously, this suggests the conclusion, which is well-supported by scientific studies, that the use of marijuana as a medical therapy can and does have a very serious negative effect on patients with pre-existing immune deficits resulting from AIDS, organ transplantation, or cancer chemotherapy, the very conditions for which marijuana has most often been touted and suggested as a treatment. It has also been shown that marijuana use can accelerate the progression of HIV to full-blown AIDS and increase the occurrence of infections and Kaposi’s sarcoma. In addition, patients with weak immune systems will be even less able to defend themselves against the various respiratory cancers and conditions to which consistent marijuana use has been linked, and which are discussed briefly under "Respiratory Illnesses."
In conclusion, it seems that the potential dangers presented by the medical use of marijuana may actually contribute to the dangers of the diseases which it would be used to combat. Therefore, I suggest that marijuana should not be permitted as a therapy, at least until a good deal more conclusive research has been completed concerning its debilitating effect on the immune system.
For more on this topic, please see Donald P. Tashkin, M.D., "Effects of Marijuana on the Lung and Its Immune Defenses," Secretary's Youth Substance Abuse Prevention Intiative: Resource Papers, March 1997, Center for Substance Abuse Prevention. Pages 33-51 of this address can be found at the website of the Indiana Prevention Resource Center at Indiana University, located at http://www.drugs.indiana.edu/druginfo/tashkin- marijuana.html.
RESPIRATORY ILLNESSES
The main respiratory consequences of smoking marijuana regularly (one joint a day) are pulmonary infections and respiratory cancer, whose connection to marijuana use has been strongly suggested but not conclusively proven. The effects also include chronic bronchitis, impairment in the function of the smaller air passages, inflammation of the lung, the development of potentially pre-cancerous abnormalities in the bronchial lining and lungs, and, as discussed, a reduction in the capabilities of many defensive mechanisms within the lungs.
Marijuana smoke and cigarette smoke contain many of the same toxins, including one which has been identified as a key factor in the promotion of lung cancer. This toxin is found in the tar phase of both, and it should be noted that one joint has four times more tar than a cigarette, which means that the lungs are exposed four-fold to this toxin and others in the tar. It has been concretely established that smoking cigarettes promotes lung cancer (which causes more than 125,000 deaths in the US every year), chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (chronic bronchitis and emphysema) and increased incidence of respiratory tract infections. This implies, but does not establish, that smoking marijuana may lead to some of the same results as smoking cigarettes. It is notable that several reports indicate an unexpectedly large proportion ofmarijuana users among cases of lung cancer and cancers of the oral cavity,pharynx, and larynx. Thus, it appears that the use of marijuana as a medicine has the potential to further harm an already ill patient in the same way that taking up regular cigarette smoking would, particularly in light of the fact that those patients for whom marijuana is recommended are already poorly equipped to fight off these infections and diseases.
For more information, please see the Tashkin website mentioned at the end of the section on immune disorders. See also:
www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/mrr/ 21.96.10.html, for information on the link between chemicals contained in marijuana and lung cancer. http://www.marijuananews.com/latest_research_finds_that_heavy.htm, for an article concerning the link between marijuana and cancer, with commentary
MENTAL HEALTH, BRAIN FUNCTION, AND MEMORY
It has been suggested that marijuana is at the root of many mental disorders, including acute toxic psychosis, panic attacks (one of the very conditions it is being used experimentally to treat), flashbacks, delusions, depersonalization, hallucinations, paranoia, depression, and uncontrollable aggressiveness. Marijuana has long been known to trigger attacks of mental illness, such as bipolar (manic-depressive) psychosis and schizophrenia. This connection with mental illness should make health care providers for terminally ill patients and the patients themselves, who may already be suffering from some form of clinical depression, weigh very carefully the pros and cons of adopting a therapeutic course of marijuana.
In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.
In addition, marijuana use has many indirect effects on health. Its effect on coordination, perception, and judgment means that it causes a number of accidents, vehicular and otherwise.
So YOU shut the F up and sit down! It's illegal either way you look at it so why do it? When you are a martial artist you want to treat your body with respect and be sharp at all times. That's why meditation goes along with martial arts so well: it sharpens your mind, not dulls it. And who cares what Bruce Lee did? He wasn't perfect. Bruce said "Pot does seem to expand my mind, but I don't care for it because it's done artificially and it could be dangerous. I'd rather expland my mind through the natural way - the martial arts. Besides, it might mess up my brain,". He even regretted it after he used it. You don't need it and if you want to relax there are alternatives that are completely side effect-free and are healthy/good for you. If you had kids, would you want them smoking that crap?
Again the medical research is crap. Most of these studies involved monkeys who were hooked up to masks that pumped smoke into them until they were asphixiated. Then the researchers cut them open, examined their organs and stated what they found as the evidence of the effect of marijuana on the body. Pathetic.
As for you Lamar, have you ever drank a diet coke? Contains aspartame, a nerotoxin ten times worse than marijuana. How about coffee or tea or regular soda? Also has many "mood altering" effects as well as negative side effects on the body. Do a search on caffenie side effects if you doubt me.
The fact remains that anthropologists have concluded that in the entire history of human beings we have never, repeat never, been chemical free. Marijuana is safe use and if anyone has a curiosity about it and is over 18 (disclaimer) go ahead and give it a try, you won't be hurt by the big thc boogey man.
For a unique JKD approach try mixing your weed with a little hard liquor. J/K
Oh and as far as all the crap you listed Lenny about hallucinations and blah blah blah. that is exactly what a person who has never tried it will say every time, reciting blindly some paper or research they have read with nothing in their personal experience to back up what they say. I have smoked it and ate it and never ever once hallucinated. Of all the people I know who have tried pot none of them have hallucinated, that is just scare tactic crap. It simply does not happen.
So to use your word go ahead and keep "explanding" your mind.
All right boys and girls, its enlightenment time!
Okay, so, up to about eight months ago, I drank heavily and smoked weed consistently for about 6 years, give or take.
I will admit that there were some good times had, and I made a lot of friends and money via pot, however my brain is PERMANENTLY screwed. Seriously.
My reactions are slowed down, once I nearly choked to death on my own phlegm,(black as tar by the way!), and get this; When I look around, it's like I am watching a T.V. image of whats going on.
This is the worst part, and possibly the hardest to notice. It's also permanent.
As to sifu Lamar, if you have never tried something, then we can't really lend much credibility to your reasons not to try it.
There is definately a lot of incentive both ways, but the only real decider is your own participation.
As to the origonal quiestion, bongs and spliffs are diffirent, one is not better than the other;
With a bong, you are getting a highly concentrated blast of cooled smoke, which, although does not burn your cappiliaries or contain as many carcenagens, does mess your head up more, and gives you more crap in your lungs.
Joints have all the Rizla crap, as well as tobacco.
Obvious no-no.
Both are crap if you train.
In my humble,(though experienced) opinion, drinking, drugs, even tobacco, it's all escapism.
To me, the fact that I did so much for so long simply shows my previous weakness of character.
Pot is simply another self-imposed illusion, which only promotes micro-orginised thinking,(i.e. "have you ever noticed how beautiful that dust particle is, man? It's like, totally an analagy for the human condition, man"), and has become a classical mess for todays rat-race generation.
I now get so much more satisfaction from nowing that I'm getting healthy, than getting stoned.
In conclusion, I would be HIGHLY surprised if Bruce Lee ate, smoked, or even looked at weed, for anything more than back pain, perscribed by his chinese doctor.
Anyway, if you can be totally honest with yourself, and you still want to Chong it, then fine, just don't promote it, or do it to be 'in the crowd'.
Less weed, more speed! (striking, not the drug!)
Damn, I should be a govenment campainer!!!
Firstly Hello All, I am new to this forum and I must say i didn't expect my first post to me on the subject of Cannabis!
Jakep I can sympathise with you, I'm now 25 yrs old, between the ages of 15 - 18 I uesd cannabis very regularly, through a bong, bucket, spliffs, hot-knife and all sorts of things. During that period I too had the general everyday feeling of looking through a TV or the feeling of not being with it, not on this planet! lol!, this continued for a couple of years after I stopped using it but now I feel more or less normal, I don't know how old you are Jakep or how long you've not smoked it for but if your like me you will eventually feel better it shouldn't be permanant. Everyone please note this may sound funny but it is NOT pleasant so be warned lay off the ****! I went from being a normal healthy teenage boy to having panic attacks, severe anxiety, palpitations, mood swings, headaches, bowel problems and terrible stress, and it was all down to cannabis use. At 25 and due to taking up martial arts (Wing Chun) at the age of 20 I have transformed myself and apart from occasional anxiety I am free of all of the above, fit and healthy and very confident. IF YOU USE WEED YOU WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN! TRUST ME!
...I am probably going to start Heroin.
Hell, you've got a pension, so no stealing to support your habit, plus your gonna die soon anyway, so it sounds pretty win/win to me!
I expect I'll be mental by that time, so I'll just tackle escapism with escapism!
Any thing beyond moderation Is bad. yes pot may have some good use If used for medical reasons. Just as tobbaco. when it is used as medicine. But just getting high serves only as a crutch To not face the problems in life. We are not born to get high are we. drug and acahol abuse is a crutch. That simple. When you face life as it comes to you. You do not need any crutch at all. Think you are who you are life is life why not allways see the real world instead of the drug world
If half the people out there that do drugs spent more time caring about themselves, getting a job (a lot of weed smokers are jobless or jump from job to job cause they are always stoned), and find something to do with their lives, they wouldn't have time to think of that BS. Weed f*** you up and there are enough stupid people in the world, so why add to it?
If you want to smoke weed, go ahead. So long as you are not smoking enough of as to where you are coughing up a lung, it's fine. As for a nice build, weed wont kill muscle tissue or anything so your fine there.
You inhail 4 times the tar and cancer causing carcinageans (sp) as you would if you smoked a cigarette. Sooo how many Martial Artists have you seen with a smoke hangin' out of their mouth?
i used to smoke weed for 2 years before i got into martial arts, when i started the martial arts my reflexes were really delayed ...i got alot better when i quit
I know someone who smokes ciggs, and he is the fastest/strongest martial artist i have met. I guess drugs just have different affects on different bodies.
"There once was a tiger-striped cat. This cat died a million deaths and was reborn a million times and was owned by various people who he didn't care for. The cat wasn't afraid to die... One day, the cat was a free cat, a stray cat. He met a white female cat, and the two cats spent their days happily together. Years passed, and the white cat died of old age. The tiger-striped cat cried a million times, and then died. But this time, it never came back to life."
Dan, cigarettes have no effect on your strength or speed. They affect the lungs, heart, eyes, brain. All the internal things. They'll cut down your stamina, give you eye problems, fill up your lungs with sh!t and screw with your heart. The list goes on.
Did you know that Greece which is a strong smoking country also has one of the lowest rates of lung cancer in the world?
You see the problem with spouting statistics is that they are statistics. Smoking is a problem if you lead an unhealthy life.
Cannabis has both good points and bad points. Now I understand your point Lamar I do not smoke or drink, but to say that no decent martial artist would do such things is to be ignorant of the truth. My teacher drinks and smokes cigerettes and is still the best fighter I have ever come across. In fact he regulalry gets pissed out of his skull.
If you have to be hyper fit to be a good martial artist then you rely on fitness rather than skill that is a simple fact.
Cannibis is good or bad does not make a difference if you train hard and do not allow it to take over your training.
you all really must be ashamed if any of you are true martial artisists. first off you should have trained your mind to see all sides of a subject. secondly use of any drug is unnesseary and discasefull it disrupts meditation and the body. in essence pot is bad for the body as you are inhaling burning vapor. also it has recreational uses and that is its ONLY benifit if you can call that a benifeit. also this cigarete thing the only reason i could think of that it makes you better is because niccotine is a "upper" or an amphetamine and increases body function by accselrating the heart. this however is only a temporary improvement and in the long run will tear upart you body from the well olied martial arts machine to a wheezing huffing wanna be bruce lee
Damian - I found that quote from a book entitled "Bruce Lee: The Incomparable Fighter" by M. Uyehara. If you can find and get the book, the quote is towards the bottom of page. 95.
Cheers Lenny, I have got that book. That must be the only time he ever admitted to using cannabis, it's the only time I know of anyway. He did continue with it's use though didn't he along with many other people I might add.
duh ? sorry I'm to f--ked up to post an answer right now, wow when I smoke that stuff, and meditate I can communicate with master pak mei...duh?? lol just kidding.
lots of martial artist, and other athletes have subcomed to the uses of drugs, and ruined there carrers cause of it. two of the most reknown martial artists, whom are now deseased, have been reported to have used drugs. every thing in the universe has to do with balance, to much to either side of the scale will eventually harm you. yet it is best to do with out them.
HMMM, I would like to post from personal experiance aswell as seeing first hand effects of drugs.
lets clear some things up..
1. pot is illegal for one reason, ORIGINALLY it was to send mexicans back to mexico dont believe do REAL research(as im not going into extensive detail if u want the information go look it up).. GOOD O US OF A
2. pot is not a gateway drug anymore then alchol is..
3. any form of drugs cigerettes,pot,alchol, etc.. is harmful to your health(though its interesting to note i know a 90yrold man who use to smoke pot when he was in his 20,30's and 40's.. He doesnt seem to be effected by the pot he smoked..
anyhow when in rome do as the romans,, DRUGS ARE ILLigal in our country (usa) so if u do do it prepare to pay the price if u get caught)
also NOTE:::::: the legal drinking age in america is 21 children and young adults have NO NO NO NO business doing anything outside of going to school getting good grades and better themselves and society..
i am pro-choice when it comes to cannabis, if the good lord has put it on this planet then he intended it to be used.
but much like anything else excess is bad...
I saw a interview on CNN the other day, they were interviewing a woman who is chronically ill and she is dying .
her meager frame of 95lbs is whithering away the only way she can eat is if she gets stoned and gets the munchies,,, she goes through 3oz's week, (she wishes the government would understand that the health benifits out weigh the negative side effects of the drug..
this poor woman is dying (i dont feel like posting real long so im not putting all the details in.)
who am I OR ANY of you have the right to tell her what she is doing is wrong and evil and because the government says its wrong..
LET ME SAY IT LIKE THIS:::: If you were dying or had a illiness that was totallyl destroying your life and making it virtually impossible for you to live, if pot helped ease your pain and burden in THIS LIFE. would god look down on you for trying to ease yoru comfort..
if it was up to the upper echelon of america we would all be popping pills ..
im sure you guys have heard of herb teas, accupuncture, etc.. there are many alternative ways to help yourself..
That’s stupid.