I don't know whether to laugh or cry.



Regards,

John M. Drake

That is a very interesting clip.

Most Western boxers of that time could easily beat these guys.



Phases ®

these guys were not good (maybe better then NWFISH)

well i sure enjoyed watching it!

http://www.stevewan.co.uk/

Well the person that posted this clip told me this:

The WhtC guy was the younger, thinner guy that kept wiping his nose after he was hit.

So I guess the other guy is the Tai Chi guy.

Regards,

John M. Drake

Hi,

Wow, after watching that clip, I can see why some people feel that KUNG FU fighters would beat the hell out of those silly UFC sport fighters.

All the best,

BIG Sean Madigan

http://www.combativesolutions.com

Please do not think that all kung fu is like that. Kung Fu really has a bad reputation and I can see why. Retards like this have been very good at spreading their ****.

I practice a style of punching called southern long fist. Now if you looked at the Wu Shu version you will see it as the same as this clip. However if you watch me or my Sifu, you would not be blamed if you confused it for western boxing. Although the trained eye will see it is actually very different. This is just one example of many.

I was really lucky to find such a master, but they are few and very far between.

Question everything, Know nothing.

DON'T BE THIS GUY!!! Don't go to a seminar wearing a T-Shirt with the cover of the Tao of JKD stenciled on the front. You WILL be beaten if I'm at said seminar.

Yeah, dork alert!

Even Danny's standing there like, "Can you believe this guy?"

Shows agin that you have training form then fighting form. you can train all day in form. But it must seperate for fighting. The old saying you are what you do. a person to fight must train to fight. or the training goes out the window. That is why non classical training has progressed so. And classical training should rembere its past to stay effective. This clip brings disrespect to effective fighting of a M/A style. And proves agin The person makes any art work in combat not the art by its self. These fighters need real live training.

I would say that the young Crane stylist won that fight. Closer to the end, the Crane fighter had a few good moves, it kinda reminded me of Jun Fan JKD for a second. He punched, broken the rythem and kicked the Tai-Chi fighters leg. If I remember correctly, that move is called... "No shadow kick"... or somthing like that. You can tell that the Tai-chi fighter was losing some wind at the end, the Crane stylist was dancing around him and picking him apart with his beek. "*Cheeeep*" "*Cheeeep*" <-Crane sounds that the Stylist actually make when performing Fist Forms.

Phases ®

Well ok he is a dork in that T-shirt, but tbh Mike that was a fair while ago (hence the black and white picture).

The guy in that picture has become a long way since that was taken though.




http://www.stevewan.co.uk/

Hey SAS he is not your teacher by any chance is he? lol. Just thought maybe that is why you are saying he has come on since then.

Phases I hope your not being serious about this fight reminding you of JKD. It was appauling, it reminds me of kids fighting like the Power rangers lol.

Question everything, Know nothing.

Everything reminds me of JKD. =)

Phases ®

Well you know what, I hate to admit it, but I almost kinda, agree, but, not quite. I did see the WtC guy score with a punch to the body that looks something like PIA. I've done that before in sparring. I probably wouldn't do it that way now. His overall "suckiness" makes it hard to take anything he did seriously. Oh one more thing. This clip makes Jiyassa's sparring clip look awesome. :D

Regards,

John M. Drake

Oppps edited it wrong..
Doh!

http://www.stevewan.co.uk/

I have great respect for David Carnel the "Dork" in the picture above, he has trained with most if not all Bruce Lee 1st generation students including Dan Inosanto.
However his Sifu is Guro Cass Magda ( who as some of you know is a top bloke) who is Dan Inosanto's protégé.

These both are a bunch of fun blokes to be around but both of them are serious Martial Artists and have done JKD a great help in the UK by teaching it.

But i think he might have thrown that t-shirt away now .

Respect to you all...






http://www.stevewan.co.uk/

Who ever said that Mc Dojo's can't turn out effective fighters? It would against those guys. That fight was awesome. If only everyone fought like that.

I would say that clip is a sad example of "gung fu", but what is even more sad is the fact that alot of you actually think thats how every one who studies "gung fu" actually practices it..Then some of you so called MMA guys still live in your little shells of style saying that this or that is useless..

then you guys pull images of people who are seeking a better understanding of what there doing , then u cut them down because you dont approve of there wardrobe...

You know what most of your peoples problem are your so into yourself and what you are doing that you confined your own growth..

Training is deeper then the surface level that most of you guys are at..

Alot of you are still very impressed how "tuff" someone is. I feel bad for you because you totally miss the point of practicing developing disapline, and embracing your art for what it is..((( ART_)))


Fighting is dirty , all these tournaments u guys watch and compare yourselves or others too is also very sad..

Im not saying athletes cant handle themselves what i am saying is FIST FIGHITNG, IS NOT THE SAME AS FIGHITNG a real fight is for survival everything else is for ego, if you fight for ego your vain shallow and a joke and furthermore this is 2004 most educated people realize that cross training is very important..

But im going to go a step further and say there are more wanna be think they are martial artist then there really are...

I especally like the people who walk around thinking there a big deal and in reality they are nothing more then snot nose punks..

THIS VIDEO clip is exactly what bruce lee and others were talking about classical mess..

I have very very very disapointing news for you guys there are bad examples of every form of martial arts out there ...But keep talking one day im sure you guys will get what u deserve.

At last someone talks sense. What the hell does what someone is wearing mean about their ability learn martial arts? What actually drives people like those on here to comment on a persons ability or his personality with his wardrobe as evidence? The mind boggles I tell you.

Deathrobe,

Whenever I hear a rant like this, I automatically think, "P U S S Y !!!" Why do I think that? Because most of the people who wax all philosophical about martial arts, can't fight. That's fine, really! Not everybody studies for self defense. But if you train only for the "art" part, don't get on here and warn everybody else about how they're all talk, and how someday they'll get what they deserve.

Guys who know the difference spot guys like you immediately. You, sir, are all talk.

And 15 year old Damien agreeing with you, proves my point.

I don't see it! I can't see the graceful white crane with the supple neck absorbing blows or the beak delivering lethal strikes. I don't see a quiet awareness or the principals of yin/yang being displayed either.

This is what happens when there is no "alive" training incorporated into your regamine. You become "lost" in kata's and forms which have no translation in combat.

When the bell rang and it was go time, it all went out the window. They reverted back to a sort of "childish" combat methods. They were throwing hay makers and turning their backs. Very, very poor display of martial skill.

Matt

Dethrobe,

For the record I am not an "MMA guy". Far from it. That said I have yet to see a "good" kung fu fight. When I saw this clip posted I was hopefull for seeing more. Alas I was disappointed. I have seen someone apply WC principles against me in sparring. This guy was really good. Unfortunately there's no "clips". But the whole "fight with fist" point that you were attempting to make is BS. These guys just sucked period. A lot of kung fu guys suck period. I still believe it's possible to make it work. Indeed occasionally I see something in "hard contact" martial art competition that I would label "kung fu". But the fact remains that the average KF stylist has a hard time make any of his stuff work for real.

Matt,

The person who posted this on another forum said he could see elements of WtC in what one guy was doing. (And this person really knows traditional KF). That said, they both might have done better if the HAD reverted to "childhood fighting".

Regards,

John M. Drake

laughs Yeah, they probably would have done better! I can see "elements" of traditional chinese martial arts as well...here and there. I am referring more to the fact that neither practitioner "held" to their respective disciplines throughout the engagement. That's all.

Peace,
Matt

Mike - Ive trained in wing chun/tai chi(yang style)/chin'na/ goju rye/jujitsu.. ive been training for about 10yrs with real dedication and trained so-so when i was younger..anyhow if calling me names makes you feel better more power to you..

John- I wasnt actually talking about this particular clip, but when i do visit these forums i often see trash and sometimes u get lucky and find a golden piece of information..

In general after you get past the "fighting" in martial arts whats left ?

I would hope most of the people here who have gotten past puberty would realize fighting solves nothing...I will not ever nor do i intend to justify myself...I do what i do because it is part of who i am..I am sure there are lots of people that are more skilled then i am..

i mean after all i only practice about 5hours a day and teach 6 (but thats another story i suppose for another time)

I just dont understand why there is so much hostility, u would we all share the same common interest.. some people say water others say waaater.. whats the diffence is it all not the same thing..

I have never claimed to be anything more then i am , however there are lots of you who claim alot...

Hello Deathrobe,

Ok. There's more to basketball then putting a ball through the net. There's teamwork, exercise, attribute building, increased hand/eye coordination ect. But the framework for all of these nice and wonderful things is putting a ball through a hoop. Likewise with martial arts and all of the wonderfull things "beyond" fighting. And no, fighting isn't some "puberty" thing. Fighting IS martial arts. (Hint, look up the word "martial"). You can do this without ego and even without trying to "hurt" your training partner. In fact even in the street one would like to get to the place where he can shut an opponent down WITHOUT hurting him. This implies a HIGHER level of fighting skill, not a lower one. And note, sometimes you can't "just walk away". For instance had I been in that Florida parking lot when that poor girl was dragged away I would have intervened. In such a case I would need more than "theoretical" fighting skills.

Regards,

John M. Drake

Hi Deathrobe. I do not get what your problem is, unless I am mistaken, no one here has slagged off all Kung Fu styles. I made a point to say that I HOPED no one thought this was representative and you know I do not think they did think it was representative.

As to making fun of that guys clothes, so what, lighten up it is just a bit of fun. Does not mean we know nothing of real martial arts because we got fashion sense.

I appreciate you train hard in the martial arts you do, but so do we. I am a Kung Fu man, I do not fight like that clip. So what was your rant about. Was it directed at anyone in particular? Who are these arrogent individuals? Bring them out so that they might be appropriately chastised.

Question everything, Know nothing.

alright heres where that rant came from

big sean-

"Hi,

Wow, after watching that clip, I can see why some people feel that KUNG FU fighters would beat the hell out of those silly UFC sport fighters." (with a nice big picture to boot, clearly sarcastic remark

Also, mikes commentary is just obnoxious, dude all you ever due is spew filth and trash out of your mouth.. u said damien is 15 (that would be my point, hes just a kid and here you are talking all kinds of nonsense

john- I agree a fight is a fight and they happen, some of the people here obviously seem to get into a fight everyday (these people need to be locked up)

jack- your right i should lighten up,but i dont see the humour i just see immaturity that runs rampent on these boards..

I'd forget about it. Internet forums like this are where people like Michael thrive. They provide everything they need to project an image of what they think they are, in Michaels case thats someone who we should all be scared of, in truth of course he's probably quite different- someone who we'd all probably laugh at, but it gives him his kicks.

first thing I'd have to investigate is the credential of the guys who are fighting.

My old Tai Chi teacher always told me that you can tell a Superior Martial Artist by their posture and footwork ...and welllll.....I dont know of many credible schools that teach you to turn your back on your opponent the way Crane boy does repeatedly. An efficient Silat practioner would have had a field day simply tripping these guys.

Further I did recognize some moves, mainly Bolo Punches but strangely enough...I thought the Bolo Punches come from Hun Gar Gung Fu, the footwork was non existent in my eyes...and I also noticed another move very popular in many schools today, Patty Cake slapping hands...

If I am not mistaken traditional Crane attacks with the beak to pressure point area's with Grace and accuracy, and Tai Chi mainly redirects force, none of which I saw in this fight. Else we could have seen people flying out of the ring and guys coughing up blood from being pecked on the throat.

So I personally say, how can we discredit the martial arts, when the martial artists who claimed that style did not execute it correctly ?

No different than Kimo saying he used Tae Kwon Do to fight Royce Gracie lol...since when did Tae Kwon Do have Grappling ?

The Movie Critics gave this Outrageious Comedy 4 Stars
Rated G - for its Goofy content.

What the Critics are saying....

"This eastern recreation of the Little Rascals Alfalfa vs Darla's New Boy friend fight is a monumental classic"

"and I thought wrestling was the beginning of Fake Fighting, Hulk Hogan, Move over!! "

"this is the windmill technique at its finest!!"

"a film that will not easily be forgotten, but I'm sure they meant well "

Edited For Enhanced Reading

Hi Deathrobe

You said that all Mike does is **** talk etc, Damien reckons he acts all tough but it was you who said one day we would all get what we deserve. Whats that about?

Big Sean's comment might at first sound ignorant, but when you think about it his cynacism is well founded. I have had the pleasure of going to quite a few kung fu clubs to train or just watch demonstrations and quite frankly they are rubbish. When you test them they can not fight. This is my experience. This goes for wing chun too.

I got an absolute fighting video where there are quite a few styles represented (first video), one wu shu quan steps up it takes a few seconds for him to be knocked out by some kid who clearly lacks any real skill. This is a trend that you see often.

If we look in history, before Bruce Lee kung fu was considered rubbish, after him there was a rise in its interest. Why becuase Lee showed there was potential in Kung Fu. Before him in 1930s western boxers in Shanghai were whooping all the local chinese kung fu masters. No one in Shanghai could beat a westerner, its a pretty big place. One guy from the north heared the challenge came down and whooped the westerners. He was know as the yellow faced tiger, founder of the Chin Woo School. What can we learn from these example, simple in general Kung Fu is **** but on the occasion there is someone who can fight doing kung fu.

Good Kung Fu does exist, but I can not blame peoples cynacism, I too am cynacle. I am sure your Kung Fu is great, but there is a lot of talk in the Gung Fu community without the action to back it up.

My cynacism not just directed to gung fu. I was watching an Aikido tourny at the local leisure centre. During the demonstrations they were throwing people left right and centre but when they tried it on a resisting apponent their skills went to ****. These guys were black belts at least. It is not the only Aikido I have seen. In fact the same goes for Jeet Kun Do. I have yet to meet a Jeet Kun Do guy in real life that was any good (I see them as like wing chun with a bit of kick boxing). Yet I am sure you will tell me there are plenty of awesome fighters out there.

I am one of those people who need proof before I believe totally. I aint gonna discount if I aint seen it. But please Deathrobe look at it from other peoples point of view before you accuse them of ignorance and such. We are all ignorant of something.

Question everything, Know nothing.

taken from:
http://www.yiquan.com.pl/old/anecdotes.html>

"Light weight boxing world champion, Hungarian Yingge (name in Chinese pinyin transcription) was teaching boxing in Shanghai Youth Union. He kept telling his students that Chinese martial arts had no practical use. Wang challenged him. When their arms met, Yingge was thrown away and fell down. Later Yingge's account of this fight was published in London "Times"."

"Mr. Kenich Sawai was born in Fukuoka prefecture in 1903, and had fifth-dan of Judo and forth-dan of Kendo and I-aido. Later on, his ambition took him to the Chinese continent. There, he fought with the Chinese man who, all Chinese people recognized, represented Chinese kung-fu all over the country. His name was Wang. At a glance, Master Wang was skinny and not so big. Mr. Sawai was confident that he would win easily. However, Mr. Sawai could not hold him by using his techniques of Japanese Judo at which he was good and, on the contrary, he was sent flying every time he attempted to hold Wang. For the next stage, Wang had Mr. Sawai hold Wang's body, and then said 'Are you ready, Mr. Sawai?' As soon as Sawai replied 'OK', he was beaten at his heart and again sent flying by Wang.
Furthermore, Sawai attacked Wang with a stick used for Japanese Iaido. The result was the same as before. After defeating Sawai, Wang told him quietly 'Either a sword or a stick is just an extension of the hands.' Sawai was completely defeated and so shocked, that he could not eat anything. After considering, he, at age 36, decided to learn Yiquan from Wang. Initially, Sawai learned Yiquan from one of Wang's disciples, Master Yao Zongxun, who would be the formal successor of Wang later. Through training for a few years, Sawai's skill had developed very much and he was promoted to learn from Master Wang directly not only in the gym but also in the garden of Wang's house. Sawai was the only foreigner who was learning Yiquan under Wang. In additon to his fast enhancement of Yiquan's skill, Mr. Sawai's special skills of Japanese Iaido and Judo made him receive special attention from Master Wang.
August 15th 1945, 5 to 6 years had passed since Sawai started to learn Yiquan, World War II had ended. He was shocked very much by the defeat of his mother country and was considering suicide with his family. At that time, Master Wang came to his house and dissuaded him from suicide. Master Wang insisted that Mr. Sawai should live and return to Japan, which was the best choice not only for Sawai but also for Yiquan (Dachengquan).
After returning to Japan, Sawai practiced with Mr.Oyama Masutatsu, the founder of Kyokushin-karate, and also taught to Mr. Oyama's students. At the same time, Sawai separately started to teach Taiki-ken (Yiquan) to his own students in Meji Jingu forest, located Shibuya-Tokyo, every Sunday."
http://www.taikiken.org/kenichi_sawai.html>

Diligent practise brings the skill of interpreting strengh. From this the ultimate goal is complete mastery of detecting the opponent's strengh...Coordinating the solid and empty is the key here. If that is achieved, then you can interpret strengh. After this, by studying vigorously and remembering, one can reach the stage on total reliance on mind.

From this, Liang argued persuasively that Tai Chi embraces within all the conditions of Taoist meditation. I heard that Yang Lu ch'an was once ambushed by one hundred ,and not wanting to kill any of the miscreants, he wrapped his cloak about him, submitted to the beatings, and was left for dead. The next day Yang worked as usual, but many of his attackers took to their beds as a result of injuries from beating the cloaked Yang. I scoffed at this example of the summit, but Cheng urged me not to; even he with but a part of Yang's energy had once permitted a famed Shaolin boxer to strike his relaxed arm. The boxer struck once and withdrew. When asked why, he told his friends that his entire side had been paralized on contact with Cheng's arm. Indeed, Wan Lai-sheng writes that when the arms and legs are no longer needed, when the chi holds sway, one is invulnerable to even knives and spears. This is called "Golden Bell Cover" (chin chung chao)."

Back in circulation in Taiwan, Cheng soon had a large group of students. And again he was vulnerable to challenges. Once such occured when a well known praying mantis style boxer, Liang Tzu p'eng, came from Hong Kong to Taiwan to try conclusions with the locals. He traded punches (the accepted challenge method) with a leading Pakua/Hsing i teacher, and his free punch put the local man to his knees. In turn, the local boxer did not hurt Liang with his punch, so the affair had to be adjudged in Liang's favor. Strutting out of the park where this occured, Liang asked if Taiwan had any other boxers. Someone mentioned Cheng's name, so Liang accosted Cheng at a party. Cheng resisted the challenge, saying that the place and time where inappropriate. Liang persisted until Cheng invited him to his house a day or so later. Liang came and watched Cheng's demonstration of Tai Chi dynamics. But he was not satisfied. "This is interesting", Liang said, "but what would you do if I attacked you?" Cheng replied that he would attempt to push him away. Liang, by this time convinced that the small man before him was afraid to fight, resorted that it would be well to get ready for he was about to attack.

At this point Cheng said, "Very well but if you even see my hands move I'll never call myself Cheng again" (to give up one's name is so serious that many Chinese would rather commit suacide rather than do it). Liang attacked from fifteen feet with a combined foot-fist action. Those watching did not see what happened, only the result. Liang first was on top of Cheng striking, next he was propelled backwards by an unseen force and bounced off the wall unconscious.

Those who were there will never forget it. Liang himself took it in good grace, stayed on and studied Tai Chi for a time. But before he went back to Hong Kong he returned to the park to see the man he defeated earlier. That one casually told Liang that he was getting ready to challenge Cheng Man ch'ing. Liang said, "Don't bother I already been there".

Once Cheng invited me to attack him in any way I wished. From long years of judo and boxing I thought I knew how to maintain balance. I thought. I faked high with my hands and went in low to push his midriff. But he was not there when I arrived. Holding his hands lightly on mine he avoided my attack and in the same movement I bounced off the wall. I tried repreadetly, but never once did I penetrate his posture. his feet moved very little, but the acute sensivity of his body to my touch permitted him to neutralize me and push and lead me at will. Often he drew me forward so sharply that my ear nearly gazed the ground, and then, at the last moment, he would catch me, saving me some nasty consequences. His art goes beyond technique; I have never experienced anything so relaxed and yet so frightengly efficient in my life.

Another time he invited me to attack him. I did. He dodged in, deflected, struck me lightly. He had done this before. But this time he did not stop the attack. Both hands were in my eyes, on my throatm all over my midriff and at the same time his feet peppered my legs. It was so beutifully orchestrated that I could not turn from it. I backed fanatically until I came to the wall, where, after taking his finger from my throat, he desisted. Informal and friendly it should have been, but frightening it was. Against that there is no defense. I am certain that no one has ever been struck more quickly and often in such a short span of time. Fortunetly, he put little energy into the strikes."

"Cheng's teacher Yang Cheng Fu, was said to be friendly- compared with his older brother Yang Shou hou. Several boxers on Taiwan told me that they had friends killed by the latter. These stories were hardly credible, but certain is that Yang Shou was a harsh teacher. However, according to Cheng, Yang Cheng Fu was not all that nice either. A big man from the North, he had an illustrious name. During training he practised the Single Whip for expansive power and play the Guitar for contractive power, holding each statically for lenghy periods. He also moved repeadetly through Step Back and Repulse the Monkey and Step Forward, Deflect Downward, Parry and Punch. But mostly he sat and seldom spoke. The students were afraid to ask him questions. Their fear may have resulted from seeing what happened to Cheng when he approached Yang for some pushing hands practise. Yang used two fingers and threw him twenty feet, knocking him out. When the memory of this faded, Cheng approached him again. This time Yang put a hand (Cheng remembers that it was as soft as cotton) on his jaw, threw him and knocked him out. These were the only times Cheng faced Yang."
-Robert W. Smith, Chinese boxing masters and methods