Sounds interesting at first untill you realise you have heared it before. Just another marketing ploy to get you to buy the video.
Its not smart to go to the ground on the street against multiple apponents, but it does happen. Used to happen to me way back at school. A bunch of boys jumped me once. I fell to the ground. My instinct was to kick out as hard as I could to shins, groin anything that came close. Soon as I could I got up, and went to stand up fighting. I was not even doing martial arts then, but miraculously I got out with just a few bruises.
Basically in a multiple attack scenario whether standing up or on the ground, you have to make every move count. Grappling is too slow against multiple attackers on the ground. The reason why it is not taught widely is not because people do not know how, as the author or that site implies, but because it is stupid. The basic rule for multiple opponent ground fighting is, Get back up quick.
1) If you hang out in the dumpster, you're going to get dirty. Stay away from places that are bad news.
2) If you're planning on hanging out at the bar, go with friends and don't drink so much that your picking fights.
3) If you get into an altercation, that you did not cause in anyway, politely talk your way out of it.
4) If #3 doesn’t work and you are out numbered, then this is where your training comes in, RUN to a public area that is well lit.
5) If they caught you and there is no place to run, then fight as hard and fast as possible. Go after the guy that did the $hit talking (usually the biggest guy), this might be enough to end the Royal Rumble and his thug friends may take off running. Your targets should be the Nose, Balls, Knee's and Ribs (In that order).
I wouldn’t suggest taking one of the three opponents to the ground, on purpose (for obvious reasons). If you do end up on the ground with someone, get to mount as fast as you can, throw a punch or two and get back to your feet. If you can, stomp on the slime balls nose.
This web site just plays to the fears of martial artists (particularly non-grapplers) to try and get their cash.
There are no amazing tricks that beat several opponents, ever.
Being on the ground against several opponents will always be nasty.
Aggressively defending with your legs and working back to your feet is good if you have the space.
Working for top position and popping up to your feet is the best you can do do if you don't.(That said, I'd play for the knee ride in a real fight as the mount is quite tricky to leave once you're on top.)
Rickson Gracie sopposevly tapped out multiple opponents ground fighting and with using only one arm. Also Systema teaches you how to do that plus against weapons on ground.
I would be the first person to say Rickson Gracie is an awesome fighter. I have enormous respect for the guy. Although it is not out of the boundaries of reality for him to beat 3 people using grappling techniques but would be more because of is incredible instinct. However I seriously doubt he did, at least not without serious damage to himself.
As to systema teaching this, I would say they are bull**** merchants if that is the case. But from what I hear about systema it does not teach technique but helps you develop your own instinct. This could I suppose include not being retarded enough to take on multiple opponents on the ground.
As to getting on to mount position, that is still grappling with one guy, which has already been stated is difficult to get out from, when the other opponents are free to kick the living **** out of you.
Heres a post from Stickgrapplers site I read some time ago
A Multiple Opponent Scenario With BJJ -- Some Surprises for the Uninitiated
I've heard a lot of things over the years about BJJ not being any good for multiple opponent situations, etc., and for the most part I agree. This goes back several years before the first UFC (1993) when everybody "else" finally heard about it and wanted to learn it.
One thing you have to understand is this. In terms of handling multiple unarmed opponents, the BEST person to handle this is a good grappler who can box. Boxing alone is not as good, since multiple opponents tend to grab, crowd you, control, and hit. They don't all just stand at range and tee off.
Secondly. I've trained in boxing, kickboxing, traditional Asian punching and kicking arts, Filipino martial arts, wrestling, and submission grappling for about two decades. The most advantageous position in all of fighting to have your opponent in (barring none) is the knee on chest position. It's the fish in a barrel position. If I were fighting two game opponents (guys that just don't go down from the first good punch), I'd want one of them on his back under my knee where I could REALLY hurt him. Yet, in this position I am standing, mind you. One person is completely incapacitated, where I can knock him out in about one second (equals 5 to 7 solid punches on the chin which WILL NOT miss because he can't move or defend). I would turn to where the other guy is in front of me, do in his friend, and the guy that's still standing can't get to me in time without stepping on his own friend. To go around, he uses up that precious second I just used to knock out his body, and now it's his turn.
I'm already standing when in a high knee on chest, and I can stay low and take the other guy down, grab his kick if he tries that and take him down, or go right back to stand-up fighting, now mano a mano.
This is a scenario I've practiced, taught, and applied for many years now, and anybody skilled in BJJ will have this going for him. It's one of the best ways to deal with two opponents -- i.e. where one of them is completely unable to hit you, and the other is not able to get to you in time. As I said before, the guy on his back is knocked out in a second or so, and you never went to the ground. Even an intermediate takedown artist can put a larger opponent on his back and kneel on his chest, post the other leg 45 degrees off the shoulder, and shoot the fish in the barrel.
If the standing opponent is behind you, then you switch to the other side around the head (takes about 1/3 second), OR you abandon the position altogether and take your standing man out. You have about 2-3 seconds to do it before your knee-on-chest guy gets back to his feet -- an eternity compared to the amount of time you'd have if he had never been on his back.
I generally chuckle to myself when I see some of the assumptions people make about arts they haven't trained in, but enough is truly enough. I'm considered a pretty fast heavyweight as a boxer, and even I'd prefer to put one of my two opponents on his back to knock him out. This comes from having had to deal with both opponents standing in the past, and knowing certain dynamics that make this difficult.
Frank Benn
Integrated Arts
Austin, Texas
P.S. And if you need to run away, knee on chest allows for this as well. Like I've said before, ground grappling does not necessarily mean YOU go to the ground -- only that HE does.
So what this guys is saying is he has knocked one guy down to the ground, knocks him out there, whilsy in a semi standing position, then goes for the next guy.
He does not clarify how he gets the first to the ground. Is it a strike or grappling. If it is a strike fair enough. If it is through grappling it is very difficult for you to place yourself appropriately.
I have no doubt this guy has applied this on the street. I am not arguing that grappling is useless in such an encounter, but that it is more dangerous to go to the ground whether it is fully or on one knee.
This guy says he will catch a kick from this position, if the second guy kicks. People find it difficult enough not to get hit my kicks standing up.
This guy does not explain what happens if the second guy decides to kneel down with him and punch straight away before he has the oppotunity to knock the first guy out. This scenario is starting to turn to sh1t.
It might have worked for him, but my point is in a multiple attack scenario you better make sure your striking skills are polished because it will be this that you will be using most (but not exclusively).
I have practiced 2 on 1 sparring a few times, and 70% of the time when the solo guy goes to ground he loses. The other 30% is comprised of the solo guy getting off the ground and saving his ass standing up.
I'm not a grappler so correct me if I'm wrong. Now let me get this straight. This expert grappler somehow manages to not only get one of the guys to the ground but gets to a perfect position where his knee is on the guys chest, all while the guys partner is incapacitated by the awe inspiring moves of the grappler. Then the grapplers position is so great that the guy on the ground somehow resists the urge to block or to even attempt to spin around onto his stomache and try to get up. Instead he puts up no resistance and lifts his chin just enough to get KO'd by this magnificant grappler. All this, while the guys partner is trying to wonder how he is going to get around his buddy on the floor to get at the grappler, even though unless his partner is a humongous guy the grappler is still in range of kicks as well as punches. Again I'm not a grappler but it seems to me that if one attempts something like that in the "real world" they'd get slaughtered.
Now let me just add that although I never studied ground fighting I do think that there is a place for it in self defense. Mainly to learn how to defend against it and to learn how to get back up. On the street the last place you want to be is on the ground.
I agree with Jack, if you are on the ground with multiple opponents the best thing you can do is 'Get up as quick as possible'. Dont hang around on the floor for the gang to kick you in every place that hurts.
Someone posted this on:
[url]http://www.mma.tv/TUF/index.cfm?ac=ListMessages&PID=1&TID=388600&FID=1&p=94[/url]
[quote]Joua Morais, a JJ Machado balck belt, told me that in class, Rickson would submit two black belts at a time (two on one). He would also face other black belts with one of his hands stuck inside of his belt and tap them.[/quote]
Someone else wrote:
[quote]A few stories I heard from a Gracie Humaita black belt... Rickson came into Royler's gym in Rio (humaita) a few years ago to train. He said his elbow was hurting, so he would train with one arm. He tapped Saulo Ribiero(world champion) and 4 other black belts with ONE HAND!!!! Same day, he let all the black belts try to pass his guard, HE DID NOT USE HIS HANDS, and no one could pass! This black belt that told me the story had no reason to lie, because he is a proud guy too, and he tried to, and he said he could not pass.
Another story, for the Pan Ams in 96 or 97(he couldnt remembe which)Rickson invited a lot of the guys from Rio to come to his gym before to train. He lined them all up against the wall (purple belts, brown, and a lot of black, the black belts were last) and tapped them all. The last guy, he told him he was gonna mount and use the cross choke. He did it 3 times, each time telling the guy what he was gonna do, and he could not defend.[/quote]
although many have already stated the down sides of ground fighting all ready. I will post just 2 real life experiences that happened to two relatives of mine while fighting in the streets of NY.
1- my brother gets in to a street fight whips the guy and takes him to the ground, he is begun to subdue him and knock him senseless, when out of no where another guy jumps from behind and smashes him in the head with a beer bottle , next thing a couple of other guys jump in and start to punch and kick him, luckly he regained his footage and ran away for his life.
2-my cousin gets in to a fight, he ends up grappling and subduing his opponent to the ground, in a full nelson, some how the guy reaches in his pocket and draws a pen knife and stabs my cousin in the ribs causing him a lung failiar and almost death!
the street, training and competition areas are totally different things, period.
yeah, thats bad. About that knee on stomach post. Yeah I agree its not really realistic. But I think grappling does have its place on the street still.
There are alot of wrestlers around that have a good chance to take you down.
to say youre just gonna gouge their eyeys, well assuming that you don´t know anything about ground fighting hes going to mount you. just try to gouge their eyes from there. If youre good at grappling youre just going to sweep them and you can get up.
Also when youre fighting multiple opponents, its not a bad Idea to take opponents down, just you stay on your feet, and stomp.
Im going off topic a bit. But have you guys ever looked into Womens Self-Defence? It's funny that women have a different way of thinking when it comes to self preservation, I guess it's due to the subject of rape. With men, all we gotta worry about is getting our ass beat, with women, they get thier ass beat and raped. I find that Womens Self Defence tactics seem more realistic (aggressive), compared to most of the regular courses. You should check it out, pick up some tips for fending off a gang attack.
You see I have a problem with womens self defense classes. Although they sound realistic and could be useful most to the techniques turn to sh1t.
I was doing a demonstration class for a language school I worked for. It was mainly orientated around chi kung. Anyway one of the teachers their was going to a womens self defence class. So she got me to hold her wrist as she was going to demonstrate something to the students. She used a load of explosive strength to pull her hand out and then elbowed me in the nose.
OK so that looked and sounded quite effective. The only problem with it was, I had applied no real resistence or attempted any defense, yet she still had to put in a lot of effort. The reality was if I wanted to rape her I could have done it with brute strength and at most school yard techniques.
The so called street effective stuff usually is quite aggresive looking and requires a certain degree of physical fitness, which quite frankly women do not always have.
For instance in the above scenario why not just kick me in the balls the shin etc I were'nt holding the leg. Or elbow me in the face first? Although classes do teach striking these vital areas, they are actually also quite energetic to apply. You could in the above example have got the other person into a control lock using soft technique.
My point is not what techniques you could use, there are multiple. It is more that these classes do not represent street effective techniques. They represent an illusion, a way of making women feel empowered For them to become street effective they need to learn a proper martial art and spend time understanding the intricacies of fighting. This is the only street effective training method. Train hard and smart.
These guys are absolute c*u*n*ts, sorry for the swearing, but I can not express what I feel after watching that. Those BJJ guys are an absolute disgrace. The BJJ guy clearly went for the blond dude, who clearly was ****ting himself by the way he was moving back. What an absolute disgrace.
people like that disgust me, they really make me sick. I do not care what this guy was saying or was not. there were multiple bjj guys against one guy. I really hope this type of footage is not being promoted, its one thing when two people agree to fight it is totally another when some random person is attacked. Martial artists have a duty as role models.
I know I can not stop people from behaving the way they do, but I personally think that the martial arts community should not condone this type of behaviour.
that ugly. The dude was helpless, the guy could have just played with him but instead he chose to beat him badly just for kicks. It really shows a lack character to beat up people who are clueless when it comes for fighting.
