Which style do your kicks mostly resemble?
Have you studied several styles of kicking and chosen one?
Or is your kicking a blend? If so, what of?
Are you currently perfecting a limited set of kicks, planning to expand it in time?
Have you chosen a style of kicking to complement your other skills?
etc
etc
(PS please don't post unrealistic kicking versus grappling stuff on this thread... I mention no names!)
My kicks are Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do kicks. In other words, I use the kicking method devised, taught and used by the late Bruce Lee. No wasted motion. The kick goes straight from it's point of initiation to the target. The power comes from proper use of the waist, hips and footwork. This offers both superior offensive and defensive use of the kicks.
In Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do, there are eight basic kicks. They are:
Jik Tek - Straight Kick
Juk Tek - Side Kick
Oou Tek - Hook Kick
Hou Tek - Back Kick
Dum Tek - Stamp Kick
Qua Tek - Inverted Hook Kick
Juen Tek - Spin Back Kick
So Tek - Sweep, or Reverse Hook Kick
There are slight variations of these kicks, but these form the basic structure of Jeet Kune Do's kicking arsenal. There are also stop kick applications for many of these kicks. The main stop kicks are:
Jik Jeet Tek - Straight Stop Kick
Juk Jeet Tek - Side Stop Kick
Hou Jeet Tek - Back Stop Kick
Lin Dum Jeet Tek - Cross Stamp Stop Kick
Inside Angular Stop Kick
Outside Angular Stop Kick
Of course, at the right moment, any kick could be a stop kick. A stop kick is the use of a kick to stop motion (any aggressive motion from the opponent). Many seem to believe that a stop kick is only a kick used to stop a kick, but that is just a common misconception. For instance, as the opponent steps forward you can stop kick his leg (leg obstruction) to completely halt his advance, or you could side kick him in the ribs to stop the completion of a punch.
I hope this information is helpful to you in some way!
I do something called chinese flipping kick (i can never remember the Chinese name for it). It has a nunchaku like action. It is difficult to explain how it works over the net, but the lower part of your leg whips out like a nunchaku. The hips and to a lesser extent the knees are very important to the correct application of this technique.
I used to do the common northern (China) kicking style. This is what most styles like Karate and most Kung Fu kicks are descended from. However the flipping kick I have found to be faster more power and versatile than the former.
Lamar, What do you mean by wasted movement? Quite often I hear this from JKD and Wing Chun people. Usually it means move in a straight line.
What is everyone's opinion of the muay thai round kick?
It is very different from a whipping round kick, but generates a lot of power, particularly against static opponents who defend passively.
By wasted movement, I basically mean any movement that is not absolutely necessary for the accomplishment of the task at hand. An example would be chambering the leg before a kick. If you apply the proper body mechanics to the kick, chambering is completely unnecessary, therefor wasted motion.
To Bloke:
I guess that kick might be OK to use when you have the opponent ready to fall (in other words, a finishing move), but to me, it is far too telegraphic to lead off with, and quite easy to stop kick. I don't really care for the kick that much, and prefer to stick to simple, direct and effective! In other words, it's like this: If I swing at you with a baseball bat as if I were going to hit a baseball, sure, it is going to hurt bad when it hits you! But, if I simply jab you in the throat with the end of the bat, IT'S ALL OVER! Get it? In the street, it's cool, decisive, coordinated directness that really counts!
One thing that I have found the muay Thai round kick or cut kick good for, is using it as a drill for developing good old fashioned raw power! Plus, it's just a lot of fun to have your partner hold a couple of Thai pads at about rib height while you just blast away, throwing caution to the wind and trying to put every ounce of force you can possibly generate into the kick! This is a great way to develop waist torque and hip power. When you apply the waist and hip power developed through this to your economical kicks, BAM, the power is increased!
Lamar, the thing about the Thai kick is that it can be done in medium range since you use your shin to hit. You do have to set it up and throw high-line hits, but it does not have to be a finishing move where your opponent is already mangled. When you shoot a couple finger jabs and slap his face a few times just to get his attention upstairs the Thai kick isn't telegraphed at all. Also, a good Thai kick is a lot harder to stop then you'd think, if it was so easy to stop why do so many land in UFC and Kick Boxing tournaments? The Thai Kick is simply a super-powered roundhouse, and just as fast, it's only a bit slower coming back.
As for me, I use:
Front Kick (Normal, Shuffle, Rear, Push Jab)
Side Kick (Normal, Shuffle, Chasse)
Thai Kick
Hook Kick (Foutte, Inverted)
Back Kick (Only when someone is behind me)
Spin Kick (Only for sparring, to risky in a real situation)
Oblique Kick
Knee Strike
As for stop kicks, well I don't over-analyze things, I'll use what ever the hell my muscel memory chooses and what ever direction the attack is coming from when stop kicking.
This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Mar 20, 2004 10:55 PM This message has been edited by Masamune_77 on Mar 20, 2004 10:49 PM
Btw, attacks that waste no energy are meaningless if the hit doesn't count. I've sparred a lot of direct, super quick martial artists who's hits don't do sh!t. It would take about 3000 of their punches to knock me down. These kinds of weak quick-hits are good for things like point sparring, but will get you either smashed or horribly fatigued in a real fight. No wasted energy seems to be blown way out of context nowadays. There has to be a balance between power and speed/non-telegraphing. A Thai kick may not be as precise and "economical" as a traditional round house, but it does a helluva lot more damage, which is the most important thing in a real fight.
I like Lamar's explaniation of the Round House Kick, It's like swinging a bat at someone; and JFJKD kicks are like jabing the end of the bat into someones throat. So, a Savate Toe Kick would be similar to finger jabing someones ribs as hard as possible with out damaging your own fingers because it's wrapped in rubber, leather/cloth and laces. A toe kick sounds painfull, like getting stabbed with a butter knife. Too bad Savate isnt widely taught, cause I would join a club in a heart beat to learn those kicks.
Masamune, I notice that you use the Oblique too. You are the first person that I know of that uses that kick, other then my Instructor and the hand full of students that trained under him. I don't know any back ground on this kick, what style did it come from?
I like practicing this kick on my own a lot. But I think it may be bad for the knee joint if you practice it too hard, too often. This kick is great in punching range. It's a VERY snappy little kick and it's fun showing people at parties how fast the kick really is. "DAMN, THAT WAS FAST, DO IT AGAIN"
I am actually with Masamune on this one (funny since our first argument was over kicking), although I do not do the Thai kick, I have seen it work on numerous occasions. It is extremely powerful and fast enough not to be telegraphic if timed appropriately like anything else.
I also agree on his point that you can not waste move to get to your target as fast as possible but if you lack momentum in your kick it becomes meaningless. In fact it is the reason why I brought up the question as to what wasted movement meant. The movement is not wasted if it used to generate power.
Phases, glad you find the oblique kick usefull, I think it's an amazing kick. I don't know how the hell you pull it off with your lead though, lol.
Anyway the kick comes from savate (dragging the foot on the ground then whipping it into your opponent), and also filipino martial arts (more of a stomping motion).
I think it's a miscommunication in the terminology (Common mistake in JKD)
March 21 2004, 9:42 PM
I don't know exactly what you call the Savate kick where you sweep your rear leg and kick your opponent. I always just called it the "Savate Shin Smash", I don't refer this kick to an "Oblique Kick". The Oblique kick (The way I was taught) is performed with your Power Lead forward (Right lead for most), and you raise your lead knee up (quickley) to about 6-8 Inches and you whip your heel out and make contact with your opponent’s shin or knee. This kick is slightly inverted, like a "Reverse Hook Kick". I never had great success with the Reverse Hook, so my answer has always been the Oblique kick because it is faster and I can generate more power then the Reverse Hook.
This is a tough kick to describe in writing; I wish I could just demonstrate it to you. My instructor also trained in Arnis, for over 10 yrs, and I’m wondering if this kick is from that style of martial art and not JKD. I guess it doesn’t really matter, but it would be interesting to know exactly where this kick came from. Maybe it is Savate, who knows.
The oblique kick, as I was taught, is done with the rear, it's basically a soccer kick (toes pointing opposite direction then how they are when doing a sidekick).
We practice the oblique kick all the time, both front and rear leg. It is called Lin Dum Tek (cross stamping kick). It is used in the Wing Chun system as well. We use it primarily for stop kicking, and as a half beat kick insertion.
The rear leg execution is an awesome offensive tool, as it is a very direct and very unexpected kick. If done correctly, the kick can be delivered well out of your opponent's hand range. This makes it an excellent counter kick for use as an opponent steps forward to attack with their lead hand.
The lead leg version is excellent for taking out knees when you are in the leg check position for trapping. This is where the Chi Gerk (sticking legs) application is used in Jeet Kune Do.
I personally am extremely fond of this kick and train it often. It is a great kick to work on the leg of your mook jong. If you have the Great Lion JKD dummy, you can also work it (as if to the shins) on the side legs. My students drill this kick every class, and it is a big part of our stop kick/leg obstruction training.
