What are your favorite ways to immobilize someone so that you can unload your close range heavy artillary (headbutts, knees, elbows, etc.)? Many fighters of the Muay Thai pursuasion (and from what I've seen, MMA and PFS as well) use a variety of clinches, especially the plum/prahm or double neck tie to unleash these blows while keeping the opponent in place. What works for you? Do OJKD fighters use this tactic (two hands holding the head/neck for knees and headbutts)? If so, how does it differ from the more conventional way MMA'ers do it?
I often use man geng sao (neck pulling hand) to trap the head and keep it in place while I unload a variety of attacks on the opponent. This is similar to what you are talking about, except for only one hand is occupied and the other is free to strike along with HKE's! I teach my students to never use a headbutt unless they have gained control of the head, and have a clean shot at the nose, temple or jaw hinge.
Thanks for the reply. I much prefer technical conversation to politics and back biting.
Is man geng sao similar to a jut sao to the neck? If it's the one I'm thinking of one can use either an inside (palm in) or outside (palm out) grip depending on the tool, but if I'm wrong please tell me. Is there a two handed version (seong man geng sao) and if so, how similar is it to a muay thai plum. Which BL student teaches it? I've only heard the term man geng sao in reference to wing chun, but considering the variety and vastness of JKD its certainly more than possible that I just missed it.
If there is a two handed version, I don't know about it! I'm not really that up on my muay Thai, so I really can't comment on similarities. I don't know where I picked up man geng sao, or rather I don't remember! Things start to run together after so many years of training!
Man Geng Sau is the second or third movement, depending on which version you do, of Wing Chun Mook Jong Form which is where you most likely picked it up Lamar.
Every time I've seen the Muy Thai neck grab is done in conjunction with a knee strike. Typically I've seen it with two hands but I've found a few images of it done one handed.
The advantage I see for two hands is better control, although as Lamar pointed out one hand gives you more options. Still there are other options for the two handed neck grab that might not be immediately apparent such as a shoulder smash.
Thanks for the pics John! I've seen these techniques (inside and outside neck grasp versions of man geng sao) in many arts (Muay Thai, Kali, Wing Chun, etc.) and I think they are invaluable as far as my personal training is concerned. For me though, it is hard to judge the authenticity of these techniques as far as whether or not they were indeed taught by Bruce Lee as there are little to no references in any of his writings that have been made publicly available on these techniques. While I personally consider a two handed man geng sao highly functional, I would want to know whether or not Bruce Lee used it before I implemented it into my specific JKD training. If he didn't use two hands, I would like to know why. While Bruce Lee's oppinion is not the final word as far as martial arts goes, the degree to which he analyzed the arts and his level of understanding is important to my own path.
I do not personally like committing both hands to grabbing the neck. Why? Well, because that commits two of my striking limbs to a grab, while all of my opponent's striking limbs are still available! The only time that I use both hands is to grab the head and control it for a headbutt, and that is usually after a double thumb rake to the eyes. This is a useful tactic for when you just suddenly find someone in your face! Hopefully you would be more alert than that, but it is best to prepare for everything!
The plum clinch aims to avoid problem of the opponent having free hands putting him in an adverse position.
The opponents head is being clasped with both hands and aggressively pulled down toward you. His shoulders/biceps/neck are controlled by your elbows and forearms limiting his ability to strike back with power.
Every time the knees are delivered your weight pulls on your opponents neck/head and his hands are forced to try and either check your hips or block the blows.
You can release with one hand to strike with an elbow or uppercut and then quickly resume the clinch, or break the clinch suddenly to transition to something else.
I don't think that the picture with the dummy really does justice to the thai plum clinch, but the dummy might not bend the right way or something like that.
