I have lost my faith in Martial Arts, at first i loved it, i loved fighting i loved learning, i loved it all. But after researching for weeks i came to one conclusion: Martial Arts are not street effective anymore. I mean the blocks are hard to do in fights and the technics suck and can rarely be done, I have also found that there are so many mistakes in every Martial Art that leaves the person vaunerable. If someone just swings crazy they can take most people. Most people now a days know how to defend themselves and they dont need to take classes for situations that wont happen. Conditioning is good for sports and stuff but for a street fight you are either going to get hurt or you will hurt them in a matter of seconds or minutes. I do not have any faith left for Martial Arts. Some one please help me, help me understand why we do these arts for defense
going to martial art classes, reading books about martial arts, sparring, watching other people fight for real, being to countless Internet forums and reading articles about fighting, talking to people who studied martial arts in the past...
"But after researching for weeks...." Upon reading this statement I found myself rolling my eyes like never before. Dude, what styles did you "study"? How could you have possibly arrived at this conclusion after "weeks" of book study and listening in on others' opinions? So, you have no "faith" in the martial arts? Well, I have no "faith" that you are a rational thinking person. Better take a deeper, longer look at the subject matter, PointDexter. You won't learn how to swim by reading about it or watching olympic swimmers on espn, and the same goes for the martial arts.
This message has been edited by Zub-Zub on Apr 13, 2004 10:00 PM
Accept that you're going to get hit against a wild swinger. Learn to compose yourself and keep your eyes open while this is happening so you can combat the situation. You might be the baddest, toughest loon on the face of the planet but you're still gonna get hit.
I'm just wondering why anyone should accept as "fact" that someone swinging wildly is going to get through with a punch? I don't think that's true at all. Personally I'd rather face someone swinging wildly then someone that actually knew what they were doing. "Wild haymakers" are relatively easy to stop/counter/evade.
As for evaluating martial arts in a matter of "weeks" well, that's pretty funny. This initial poster didn't even mention WHICH martial arts he was talking about! Here's a test for the guy who started this thread. Walk into every martial art school near where you live. TKD, Kyokushin karate, Jujitsu (both traditional and BJJ), Muy Thai, Wing Chun, JKD ect. Ask to spar with an instructor. Charge in "swinging wildly" and see how you do. When you wake from your coma, come back here and post your experiences. (Note: claiming Muy Thai isn't a "martial art" so you don't have to face those guys is a cop out).
Of course there are some people in the Martial Arts that can not fight at all, but they are not good martial artists, those people usually have something lacking to make them not that good. But there are also people that are great Martial Artists and are good fighters. Theres always a chance that any human can get beat up, but we study Martial Arts to improve our chances in life threatening situations. Why do you think we always get in more trouble if we fight someone.... because we train to fight.
And a wild swinger could land some hits on anyone, but the better you are the less chance you have of being "beat up".
Also the Military uses Martial Arts, so i am guessing they are wrong even though they are supposed to train to go into war.
my outlook on this that for the most part no one is untouchable there is always a 50/50 chance your going to get hit you have to accept that but at the sametime not worry about hit because i feel if you worry about it, that will increase your chances even more so because then you are becoming a fighter with more on the mind rather then a responsive fighter. I think when you train you need to take some shots to get use to it and deal with it and try to keep your head and move through your opp. The guy posted right ahead of me had some good points but i know alot of good martial artist that cant fight there way out a wet paper bag it is because they dont have the killer instinct to move through there opp or they are in for the art part of it not the martial not a bad thing just what they want out of the training. I dont think you should loose your faith i think you have deal with the fact you may take a hit but to deal with it and move on. Hope that will change your mind and stay in the arts because there is alot of good things to come just have to patient.
Martial Arts plays many roles the way you percieve it is how it is taught to you. If you are being taught a martial art that is based for the sporting world, and focuses alot on their promotional requirements almost each and every time you attend class then you probably are not going to gain much trust in what your doing. If the style or group you train with train in "dead" type drills where your stagnant most of the time then your not going full circle with the potential of the arts. However, if you begin looking at a Martial Art system that believes in more contact sparring, that allows you to work realistic sitations, chances are your on the right track to learning how to defend yourself. As its been said you cannot go into a fight and expect not to get hit. Alot of times actual fights or altercations never begin or play out exactly how they do in class. But truth is the more you prepare for this the more prepared you will be for reacting and knowing how you'll react. Im always leary of those instructors that say "this or that" is always effective and if you practice this exactly this way you'll always walk away. Because nothing is gauranteed. I work in Law Enforcement Correctional field and I'll tell you if anything I've learnt in the 4yrs I"ve been working in this area is no two attacks are alike, nor can you answer any 2 attacks the same. I've been hit,kicked, taken down, cut, poked by broken broom handle, spat on, but I can say with complete confidence I've never been beaten and I consider that due to my training.
My cousin recently was attacked by a knife weilding assailant, and he's trained in the Fiipino arts where we practice knife work alot, and managed to parry this guys' attacks almost every time but one quick change up and this guy snuck one in on him and managed to stick him in the lower stomach, however his movement allowed him to take the cut in a non vital area and as the knife was in him he was able to defend agaisnt his assailant. He said " Had I not trained in the arts of Kali, I would of taken many puncture wounds and probably gotten cut from one side to the other on my stomach" So was his training valid? Of course sure he got stabbed but he remained calm and still walked away sure with 3 stitches but nothing more.
So seek validity in the arts that are geared for survival rather then sport. If you do not have any of this in your area start your own training group.
You sound like your at where Bruce Lee was right before he created JKD. I would suggest you learn JKD but only if you enjoy it. Sometimes it's not about achieving, but in the journey.
martial arts are not that different from a gun in some aspects. such as you can have a gun but if you have no idea how to wield this weapon you still cant hit the broad side of a barn. this is also true of martial arts if you dont train then no matter how much you train you will not be effective. so to lose faith in something that first you seamingly where not passonate about and did not extesivly study is not fair. mastery of martial arts and even the rudemetary skills taught in it take a great deal of time to get down to where they would be profecent in a real battle. if you are looking for a martial art then jkd seems to definitly be for you. and keep in mind that jkd is less of a martial art and more of a way to train your body and mind to such a level that you will surpass "martial arts." so really you look to marial arts for the wrong reason you need to be more intent on learning and molding your body and mind to a higher level than learining how to fight and beat people up. i hope this can clear up something for you.
I didn't bother to read through all of that shiz so forgive me if someone has already mentioned this but.... Faith No More Rules! That is all. You may carry on.
You know I can sort of understand where this guy is coming from. I would be suprised that he came to this conclusion in a matter of weeks had I not been toi many classes myself and seen how **** they were.
Usually when I go to a class I judge the class by the quality of the seniors. Quite often these guys talk big but fight like girls. This is true for the JKD I havee seen as well. I would go as far as to say it is rare to find a martial artist who was truely skillful. Usually these guys tend to be very fit and just power through the people they fight, but they mistinterpret that as skill not realising they were just fitter than the person they fought.
I know everyone here will probably think well this is not the case in my class. This however is more often than not a delusion that many martial artists have. Somehow they believe they really can kick arse. Hell I bet those guys in the Tai Chi Vs Crane clip thought they were pretty effective aswell. I really would not be suprised if people here also fought like that.
I was watching some clips of this one JKD guy who seemed to get his named mentioned a lot Emille bozetep or something; anyway he was showing clips of his fights against challengers and it looked like a school ground fight. Yet from his articles and the way people spoke of him you would think he was great and to be honest people here also talk the same. I am sure I may also sound the same from your point of veiw.
So in a way I agree with the guy who started the thread. He sounds quite intelligent to have spotted this straight away. I would suggest to him that he should keep and eye open and eventually he will find someone who can actually teach real effective martial arts, but it is a struggle to find them. 98% of classes are a waste of time, might sound arrogent or ignorant but the more classes I go to the more I am convinced of this.
you know the reason most of the schools out ther teach the way they do is because people dont like to be hit and if the school is taught in a agressive manner they wont have any students. I also think wtih all the sueing that goes on these days that has a lot to do with the way they are being taught i think alot of martial artist have a false sense of security and that is sad. I train just a couple of students it is not my lively hood so i can do small class but i also train people that dont mind to get hit on occasion and take some bumps and bruises at least when they do somthing wrong they know they did it wrong. Like one of the guys said before train for the street fight not the sport nothing wrong with the sport and lot of the guys i seen mma events i wouldnt want to tangle with but then again those people proably wont be the one to start a fight. I think is in all how you train as said before and like i said in a early post no one is untouchable all the time.
You have questioned the validity of traditional MA. This is the first step towards self-teaching and eventually JKD. You are on the right track! You must look at the arts from the point of view of the street and decide what is useless. And, most of it is useless. It is then a process of daily decrease to narrow down to what is practical for you. After that, it is a matter of physical training to master the hundred or so usefull movements.
Dont be disenchanted, this is only the beginning of self exploration.
Anything takes time. A boxer is not ring wise in a few weeks. A child is not born walking. We all learn at different rates. Sure its true there is no real secert. In the M/A. Any one can learn to fight just by fighting alone. The more you fight the smarter you get about it. The M/A teaches different aspects of doing. Lets say skills. If you can learn to apply what you learn .Well then you can become abetter smater fighter. The M/a teaches you about your life and how you look at it as well. As you learn to fight you also learn not to just fight. I was told many years back IF a person was to just master the begining basics they would know a very lot about fighting and defending. Boils down to you do not have to have a great amonunt of tools. Just a few good tools that you do well.
"weeks" of research isn't enough time to come to conclusions. it took me 8 years to find a qualified instructor. as a chinese saying goes : "it takes a student 10 years to find a good teacher, and it takes a teacher 10 years to find a good student"
Emin Boztepe isn't JKD, he's a wing tsun practitioner who came up under Leung Ting's system (in case you couldn't tell by the spelling of wing chun). He does have quite a reputation as a fighter, however. Where did you see the video footage, as I would like to take a look at it myself!
