i posted this on another thread but no-one replied, so ill be less subtle.
i've just logged on to say that i've stopped training to be the best, can anyone answer me, what is the point of training to be the best at fighting?
if you are the best, you won't enjoy it because it won't be hard, and also it seems that a lot of people who like martial arts are either very insecure and want to prove themselves, like ron prather, or social outcasts who want to fit in, or people who just like the whole action of it all.
im not one of those people, and i see no reason to do martial arts, instead i will pursue a 'career'(man i hate that word) as a scriptwriter/film director, in a hope of expressing my visions that way. i was gonna be a writer, but thats too limiting and indirect. i really want someone to give me a good reason to do martial arts, but i believe thee isn't one for me. i've enjoyed this part of my life speaking to all of you, and learning how to defend myself, thanks for all of your time, and remember, really do treasure every moment of life, bad or good, as it'll be gone in the blink of an eye, and i know this wont affect you much, its hard to convey emotion, but when something emotive happens to you, you'll understand.
i feel this passion inside me that can't be expressed by martial arts, maybe even not by a human being, it's consuming, and i hope some of you can understand that. i will still come on here now and again to see if theres any good threads or to ask a specific question, and i really do appreciate the time ive spend with all of you more than you can probably know.
thank you,
Jowan.
Well Jowan, no one can ever be the best fighter, it would take a lifetime of hard work to even be one of the greats. Martial Artists are not all the reasons you have stated, there are Martial Artists who do it to discover the paths in their lives and to be better people.
I say good luck to you in your career, and do what ever you love
Well Jowan, no one can ever be the best fighter, it would take a lifetime of hard work to even be one of the greats. Martial Artists are not all the reasons you have stated, there are Martial Artists who do it to discover the paths in their lives and to be better people.
I say good luck to you in your career, and do what ever you love
You can learn more about your own weaknesses. And find you no less of your body then you thought. The M/A starts out about learning fighting skills. And yet bleeds to life skills. Becoming a better person. You can only ever be the best you can. Not ever the best. To know what you know and be able to do what you do . Perhaps that is all we can ever expect. Now what reasons do you have for not training after all its your life to live.
if that's your attitude then why take it up in the first place> If you set a point at which hey i'm the best then you are putting limits on yourself right there and then. the moment you're content with the way you are, you no longer have any faith in yourself in reaching the ultimate. You're almost setting yourself up for failure because don't you want to do the best YOU can in all that you pursue? you're almost saying if you're the best at what you're planning to do then it becomes no fun. I'm sorry for the slight pun, but I mean your reasons are almost like cop-outs, that you've given up before you even barely tried your hardest. The drive to be the best at whatever you may pursue is what makes some people feel actually alive.
Well, the only thing that makes me feel alive is my emotions and i don't just mean happiness and contentment,i took up martial arts so that i could be the best, and ONLY as a way of expressing my potential and my passion, but martial arts seem so limited now, all it is is physical techniques. they can make you a great person when you apply the philosophies and personal discoveries about your character to life, but why not just make those discoveries on your own, without techniques, why so much physicality?
martial arts is about controlling another person and hurting them, and that may not be all, but thats the main goal, the secondary goals are the philosophies, and i just want to cut out the hurt bit.
Issan you say that the drive is what makes people alive, well do you know what, it makes me frustrated.
i don't understand it, but i try to. i listen to a good piece of music, and to me thats not anything thats ever been released to sell, but the stuff with passion in it, and to me thats some computergame music, and when i listen to that, i feel the drive and the passion, but it's not enough to feel it, i've gotta understand it, and the thing thats most frustrating about martial arts, and everything, is that no-one understands, and you can only connect to people through understanding, and i feel that virtually no-one understands the drive, or even life itself.
frustration and anxiety and fear is what i feel, i feel trapped, and HOW can kicking and punching relieve me?
even when you get down to the learning about your character, you make no discoveries about anything other than what your will powewer is like.
now come on, tell me HOW can martial arts reach the ultimate? can can it connect and how can it understand????
things are only limited because you put on those limitations. And keep in mind I remember you told me you were my brother's age (around 17 or so); so you're still pretty young. You say you're frustrated well maybe it's because you're actually testing yourself. So you're gonna give up now because you don't like the journey? It's frustrating? that's what being is all about, if you want to be the best, you gotta pay the price to attain such a state. No one said that the best would be a tough journey, and you talk about physicality, well there's physicality everywhere else. If you're not willing to pay the price for greatness then sorry you will never be great in ANYTHING you pursue
This message has been edited by lssanjose on Apr 18, 2004 3:26 PM
You know your one of the few people on this forum I really like. Your thinker beyond the usual remit of most bog standard martial artists. So do not get me wrong when I say you have so got this wrong.
True martial arts is about defeating yourself, when you can do this defeating others is easy. It becomes an after thought.
To want to be the best is not a bad thing. Why do something if you are only going to halve hearted about it? Being the best is not about beating anyone up, it is about being the best you can be and if this means the latter then so be it.
The development of the mental state or the spiritual state has often been linked to the physical. When you fight you experience many of the emotions that you are capable of feeling, but intensly. How many of us have felt fear? How many of us have have been angry, desperate, in pain? How many have gained respect for of fellow man? How many have learnt our limitations? How many of us have learnt to over come these things? How many of us are still trying?
Sex and Violence are the two most primal forces in man, how can you dimiss the harnessing of the latter as merely physicality? I understand and can empathise that there comes a point where martial arts is not everything in your life. You ask yourself why am I doing this? How does this help me survive this world? It's not as if we have to fight everyday to live.
These are questions I feel, every modern martial artists need to ask themselves. The point is not to see martial arts as a way of life, but as an aspect of your life. If you parrellel it with training it is like you suggestin that all you should do is punch. Punching is not all emcompassing, therefore is it useless. No, of course not. We train the entire range of techniques appropriately. In the this way we treat our physical training in the same manner as part of the whole that we call our lives.
Could you really live in a body that was not physically in tune? Could you really live without meditation and chi kung (I am sure that the russians have a name for it too)? Hell Jowan have you even managed to focus you chi? For example, can you break the bottom of a cocont open by hitting it on the top without breaking the top? That is just the lowest level above novice.
Have you exerienced combat in slow motion? Have you known what move your opponent will do before they did in the heat of combat? Do your hands move or your legs kick where your eyes see, without thought, without conception? Are these things merely useful in combat? Is this not the honing of the mind to maximum efficiency, to make the body and mind one working in harmony?
Maybe you have achieved all this. Maybe in the year or so I have known you you have gone from not having power in your punch to having achieved enlightenment. Yes there are many ways to achieve this and many ways to express your feelings, but none as encompassing and as infinite as martial arts.
What? Are you suggesting that in Yoga you are exposed to fear in the same way as combat?
To me yoga type techniques is part of my martial arts. I do something called I Ching Chi Kung this is very simular to Raja Yoga, but also has the moving chi kung as well. So yes martial arts does encompass all these things. It is not just hitting a pad or another person.
Do you live the philosophies as you do it or do you reflect after the event. Or do you impose logic linear and struture to what you see. The greatest hindrance is the mind in philosopy. This is a major revelation of Bruce Lee.
It is has been some time since I have posted here, but I felt Jowan's position is something I can relate to. When I started in JKD ten years ago, all I wanted is to learn is how to kick some ass and be the best fighter(putting limitations on it as Issanjose said). But it grew into a lot more...
The philosophies changed my life and it gave me the confidence to live my life, without fear. These two things in my opinion are the greatest things you can learn from MA. It also made me realize how much I loved life and emotions, it helped point me in the right direction. I started trying to understand the world, what we see, what we can't see, emotions, meaning of life... And I found what I was looking for, and it wasn't to be the best fighter in the world.
I don't care if I can focus my chi enough to break a coconut open or not, I know that I can walk down the street without being scared of being beat up. To paraphrase Bruce Lee, "Coconut's don't hit back"
I agree with everything everyone has said in this post. The things about that if you think MA is just about punching and kicking that is a limited view. And if your not willing to pay a price you will never acheive greatness.
I don't see what you're (Jowan) doing as quitting or giving up because MA became a struggle. I see that MA and your philosophies are serving their purpose. If all you learned from MA is discipline to stick with a goal and you realized what that goal may be, that is enough. Because trust me, being a scriptwriter/Director will take as much, if not more, discipline and perseverance in order to accomplish.
I don't train in MA anymore either, but it is and always will be a part of me and my life. I know that it will always be there for me, if I am in a jam and need it or if I want to get back into training. But I also realize that there is so much more in this world to experience right now.
So to you Jowan, I say do what you must do and when you need MA for it's self-defense or it's philosophies in what ever path you take in life then use it, it will always be there for you.
There is no such thing as a step in the wrong direction, the only wrong step you could ever make is by doing nothing, by not taking a step in any direction. Because even if a step you make winds up being a mistake, you still gain from it, you still learn a lesson and it helps point in a different direction.
Thank you all for having the time to write back, i have been looking introspectively and searching through my feelings and emotions, my past experiences and my knowladge now, and i have found that the one thing in life that i truly want, not a job, or a career, but i want to learn. i love to learn new things to do with science, art, ancient civilisations, history, everything like that is brilliant because it is all new to me, but the main thing i want to learn is about life itself, i want to fulfill my full potential, i want to learn life lessons like disclipline, willpower, accepting things, changing with change, how to become free, those are just tiny examples, but i want to learn so much more. in my haste to learn all these things i got confused and my passion turned to becoming the best or conquoring new heights to prove myself, and by saying this i have learn the lesson of acceptance, i believe that life is about experience, and this is what i have been doing, and trying to do, but i have been treading too carefully, and not letting myself live.
recently everything was coming to a head, and i could feel that something needed to be done to get me through the anxiety and depression i was feeling, and then it all burst out and in a few emotive minutes, i felt that i had learned to let go of my bad feelings and my insecurities, and i know some of you will not understand or accept this, and that's FINE but i believe that a God, or something, maybe our own collective conciousness, something that was in control of life was guiding me to learn lessons, and when i realised this, i have been learning more than i ever have before. i realise that you get what you give, and that is relative to you, so if you try to learn and try your best to be a great person, then you will be rewarded, with self improvement, and a greater understanding of things, though i am free of the merits of a reward, if it comes, then it does, but i am not attached to it.
i have been thinking to myself, while listening to some music that meant a lot to me, and i found myself connecting to what i used to be, before i became confused, and in that feeling i was as secure as i have ever been.
in life, i want to experience, and to live a life of learning and emotion, and i know some of you will understand what i have said, Shaman, especially, i think.
and i think that a lot of martial philosophy is brilliant, more free and unrestricted than the things that professional philosophers talk about. and i will accept and take on board what it has to give, but ultimately it has acted as a guide and not as a truth in itself, and i have realised that there is no career or job that can be a truth in itself, so i will continue to do martial arts, but it will not be the centre of my life, and i will not try to be the best in the world, for there will always be the potential for something better, i wil, attempt to know as much about martial arts as will make me content with myself, and that is all. as for a career, i will probably do something with animals or films (later in life, maybe) i will definately write a book at some stage about all this, and attempt to explain feelings. i have always seemed to rescue animals and care for them in their final hours or days of life, (by sheer chance i come across injured or unhappy animals!), and i shall continue to do this, and maybe run a pet store at one time or another, but i shall attempt to make some short films to bridge the gap between film director and amateur, and i think i will have mroe than enough material with all i have discovered recently.
so thank you all for talking me through this, and i will return here (not as regularly as before, though) if i need advice on martial arts or life, and if anyone needs the same!
and something that conforted me was the thought that the universe, life itself, our bodies, etc, are all almost 'unreal', they don't affect US, our soul, they affect our mortal bodies, and in that i don't worry about what happens to my brain or my body in life, because our soul is important, and that is what will live on when our bodies disintergrate.
and anyone else who tries to stop you from living your dreams, well, feel sorry for them because they are trapped in their 'real' world, and have no thought of what they really are, and their words cannot affect you.
well, that's a long thread, if you're still awake then thank you again, and see you soon.
good luck,
Jowan
well jowan one will never be the best because you will be lerning new thing evry day and NO it will not be esy because you will have to expect anithing from any one. Hold on to you'r dream and never let it go cuse one day you will ocomplish it.
GOOD LUCK!!!!!
If you watch the movie "dragon." the bruce lee story if you watch in kinda the third person mode you will relise that bruce really didnt do martial arts for self defense when he started. the demon scenes and the last few scenes where he is a nervous wreck are really representations of his inner self, not of some "Mystical demon." Im sure that could be conveyed like that.
For me martial arts has a emotional attatchment. It has been there for me for a long piriod of time. I've made some really bad choices in my life but martial arts will never judge me, never not give me new insight or knowlege.It's teachings have seen me through a lot of very difficult times. As I'm sure it will in the future.
So I think your really quite wrong about a good number of the people on this forum. I think yes there are one or two people with out naming names who are quite self involved. but that can be said about many communitys.
That unfortunatly, and fortunatly is exactly what this forum is. A community. But the good thing is thats what we get are strengths from as hum an beings.
So if your going to leave us under this situation. It would I think diminish the whole. But either way I wish you well in your endevor in the writing field. I too am working on something along those lines.
Let us the comunity know if there is anything we can do to help out
If you watch the movie "dragon." the bruce lee story if you watch in kinda the third person mode you will relise that bruce really didnt do martial arts for self defense when he started. the demon scenes and the last few scenes where he is a nervous wreck are really representations of his inner self, not of some "Mystical demon." Im sure that could be conveyed like that.
For me martial arts has a emotional attatchment. It has been there for me for a long piriod of time. I've made some really bad choices in my life but martial arts will never judge me, never not give me new insight or knowlege.It's teachings have seen me through a lot of very difficult times. As I'm sure it will in the future.
So I think your really quite wrong about a good number of the people on this forum. I think yes there are one or two people with out naming names who are quite self involved. but that can be said about many communitys.
That unfortunatly, and fortunatly is exactly what this forum is. A community. But the good thing is thats what we get are strengths from as hum an beings.
So if your going to leave us under this situation. It would I think diminish the whole. But either way I wish you well in your endevor in the writing field. I too am working on something along those lines.
Let us the comunity know if there is anything we can do to help out
Thank you all for what you have said, i know that most people on this forum, probably all, have good hearts, and are good people, but here, like in life, there are so many people that have needless flaws, like prejudices, or little ways of acting that just frustrate me, like having a closed mind or mocking something because it is different, and i don't want to spend my life telling these people to no avail. my life 'dream' is simply to be in a 'community' of totally open minded free people, who, like me, have had an emotive, intense, awe inspiring expressive life that was filled with mystery and intrigue. i know that sounds far fetched, but if someone has ANY of those qualities, then the chances are that they have the rest.
i think i have got to the stage in my life where there is no striving, excitement, nothing new, same old ignorant people, i feel as though i am not 'learning' life any more, but gliding through on an endless plateu.
and i need to get off.
i think i can find the answer to what it is i am looking for, if only i had the energy.
if anyone knows of human biology or anything to do with that kind of thing, then please help answer my question:
i get tired all the time, due to a lack of energy (can't get energy fast enough), and due to toxins that are entering my body and shutting it down slowly, it won't seriously affect my life, but it is hindering ANY progress i am making.
i believe i have hereditarily weak stomach acids, and the enzymes can't break down toxins in the food i eat, so they are absorbed, and stay in my body, causing me harm 24 hours a day. if there is anyone who knows anything- i.e. a way to increase potency of stomach acids, a way to stop candida (I think what i have also), a way to eat specific foods that don't contain toxins, perhaps a radical idea like a 40 day fast, or veg and fruit juice fast, anything like that! i think there may be a problem with the Krebs cycle (getting energy) as i do not eat meat, so i may have less vitamins than i am suposed to, and the supplements don't work.
is there anything that anyone can think of that could help? if this were cured, then i could follow my dreams with ease!
Jowan
My friend. You sound like you are looking too deeply into life. On one hand this is good. However on the other you must understand that life is not actually that complex. We make it more complex than it need to be.
We are born, we eat, we ****, we sleep, we f#@k and we die. Of course there is a lot in between, but that is up to us to decide. So we can have life as simple as we want or as complex.
You dream of hanging around less ignorant people (move to Europe, lol). The thing is we are all ignorant, there is no where in the world wehere you can find people who are not ignorant. My mentor once send to me that the "more you learn the more lonely you become". This is so very true. Learning is a very individual thing, it is really why you become so different from everyone else. This is part of what makes you unique. In fact it is what makes everyone else unique even those people you think are ignorant.
What you seek is people who know how to communicate in your social language. It is a shame you live in the US, cause you know you would be very welcome in my home in Brighton, England. I know a few people you would get along with very well. Actually Brighton does have a lot of people traveling on simular journeys to you including myself.
As to your stomach problem, I would say this is more to do with your mind. Unless you are actually physically ill then go see a doctor. However, from what you describe it sounds more like it comes from too much worrying about everything. If you feel that your body requires meat, try it to see if the problem stops. Learn to read your bodies requirment, i.e. go with the flow. If you really dont want to eat meat, there are plenty of options you could try. There are hundreds of vegan, vegetarian or episcatarian recipes that would help.
One thing I have learnt recently, is to accept life. If I do not like the one I have, it is up to me to change it if not who cares you gonna be worm food in a hundred years anyway, whether you enjoy life or not.
thanks, you have helped me to understand that life is simple, but the many intricacies in it make it complex. i want to be both simply and complex, and so i am.
why do you think i live in the US!!????
i like in shropshire (in the midlands) shrewsbury to be precise, in the UK!!!
and thanks for your help on my diet, but ive just discovered by extensive research that im lactose, gluten, yeast, and possibly something else, intolerant, which means that when all the food reaches my gut undigested, it is broken down rapidly by the liver or whatever, and releases toxins and a hell of a lot of lactic acid, which is why i have been getting tired and short of breath, and i have stopped eating foods that contain the latter, and have 10 times as much energy, i'm really happy ive finnally cured my fatigue!!!
i have discovered aswell, that what you believe can limit you, i watched a program with derren brown (psychology magician guy) and he has opened my mind to the new limitless possibilities that i always knew were there, but did not know how to access them.
oh, and what i mean by the 'ignorant' people is the people with a firmly closed mind. anyone who waits for their turn to speak and doesn't listen to what you have to say, or hasn't been shocked into awareness of themselves and their mind, just frustrates me. i know we're all on our own path, and we'll all be connected and enlightened some day, but it's still frustrating!!
i have watched fight club for the second time, a few days ago, and Tyler's views struck me- i didn't accept them before, but its true, we all get jobs we hate, to buy things we don't need. and i believe that the only happiness lies in the relating to other people and things, and knowladge, and to be free from all restraints. and above all, feeling and sharing emotion and experience with the one (or ones) you love. (hinduism has caused some interesting feelings in me, along those points i just said).
last thing, do you go to a jkd school, if so, is it in brignton? i cannot find any that are in the midlands!!!
plus, around about what age are you? i'm 17.
-Jowan
sorry Jowan, must have got you cofused with someone else so many from the us, hard to distinguish who is from where.
Anyway I do not do JKD, never have done and at present I don't see myself joing a JKD class in the future as I have yet to see something that is not all fancy talk.
There is a JKD club in brighton as well as lots of people who claim some sort of influence. Actually brighton is full of martial arts clubs. Some better than others. Lots of champions in this and that. Was in a taxi going to gatwick, the driver turned out to be the TKD heavyweight chapion of britain. A European NHB champion teaches and trains here. World kickboxing champions you name it.
Funny, I saw fight club the other day aswell for the second time, You watch it on TV? It is a pretty awesome film, hits the nail right on the head.
Anyway, offer still stands. If you ever pop down Brighton ways, give me a buzz and we can hook up as long as I am not working away. Oh and I am 23.
Seeing as though we are both in the same time zone you wanna chat sometime in the chat room. I am back home by around 8pm. I leave it to you to suggest a time after this.
but i believe that a God, or something, maybe our own collective conciousness, something that was in control of life was guiding me to learn lessons, and when i realised this, i have been learning more than i ever have before. i realise that you get what you give, and that is relative to you, so if you try to learn and try your best to be a great person, then you will be rewarded, with self improvement, and a greater understanding of things, though i am free of the merits of a reward, if it comes, then it does, but i am not attached to it.