Hey everybody, this my first time posting(instead of just reading) here.
I'm not really sure if this is the right place to ask, but my question is, could you please tell me a few effective exercises for each part of the body (arms, legs, chest, back, ect.) that build up endurance and strength but don't hinder too much speed? The only things I have at my disposal are a couple of free weights.
Please help, I am relatively new to the martial arts and organized training.
In my opinion, if you don't have a barbell then weight training is useless for martial arts.
You need to be doing heavy compounds:
- deadlift
- squat
- benchpress
- barbell row
- cleans/snatches
You'll need to buy a barbell and alot of plates for them. Have enough weight so you reach failure at around 4-8 reps (12 reps for squats).
You will get faster, more powerful, and stronger from these total body exercises.
The only time little exercises like bicep curls and tricep extensions are good are if you are using them to supplement heavy compound exercises (deadlifts, squats etc)
But, until you get a barbell with alot of plates, you can simply do punch combinations with free weights in your hands.
The best exercise I can recommend that doesn't require weights is the pullup. If you can do alot of pullups then get a belt and put more weight on it. Pullups work just about every muscle in your upper body.
Any weightlifting all by itself will slow you down simply cause in order for a strength exercise to work, you have to overload the muscle enough to stimulate it to grow. This involves contraction. Contraction bunches up and shortens the length of the muscle. That is why many people think they are getting slow when they lift. That's cause a lot of them start backing off from the speed and flexibilty training they SHOULD do to compliment their training. Everything unto itself is mean for it's specific job. Flexibility will only make you more limber and speed training will only make you faster. If you are strength training, the most you will get out of a motion is if you do it slow to keep your muscles under stress longer and thereby stimulating them more. But also by doing this you are training your muscles to move slower. So that's why you do weight training on one part of the day and everything else on the other part of the same day or other day. One gives you strength. You only get slow after weightlifting if that's the only exercise you do. Therefore do speed training, strength training, endurance training, accuracy training, power training, footwork training, and flexibilty training. Every one kind of training will only give you it's highlighted benefit. You might get one or two additional benefits to some of them but for the most part you are doing a specific kind of training for a specific kind of result.
The following exercises can be done if you only have dumbells available:
1. Butterflies on the bench - flat, incline, or decline
2. Dumbell Presses
3. Concentration Curl
4. Alternate Curl (hammer or regular)
5. Dumbell Rows
6. Lunges (for legs)
7. Dumbell Squat
8. Triceps extensions (lying or standing)
9. Tricep kick backs
10. One arm dumbell calf raise
If you do have access to barbells as well, let me know and I can tell you some exercises for those as well. I am assuming that when you said "free weights", you meant dumbells.
This message has been edited by Lenmaster on Apr 26, 2004 10:14 AM
First you need NO weights at all. They just make it easyer. You can do knuckle pushups work your way up to several hundred in sets. . Situps ,crubches. jogging. sprints ect. This will build and tone the body. Speed is develped thru relaxed motion. Non restricted movement. POwer comes in the end as mass follows speed. creating power. Snap deepens the depth of the strike kick ect. By not adding cushion to the point of impact. So really you can use your self to aid all the way. If you want to build large bulk sure weights is the way to go. But what I mentioned has worked for many many years for most people.
What are your goals? do you want to be big, or powerful?
If you want to be big, lift like bodybuilders do, slow and with proper a´mount of reps to make the muscles burn.
If you want to increase your speed and strenght(power) lift like a weightlifter. The system I use comes from the westside method. Search around the net and also try www.t-mag.com.
A maximum effort day(1 or 3 rep max) for the squat and one for the bench press also(or the exersices you choose)
and a speed strenght day for the squat and bench press(or other exersices)
you also do some supplemental work to strenghten the muscle tissues(the body building type)
If you lift weights slow, you will never get powerful, you will get big, because the tension in your muscle is bigger in this type of training, but you won´t get strong. For you to get strong you need to lift fast and in a way to stimulate your nervous system
theres a lot more to it, however, and you can find it on the net
But when you said "lifting slow won't give strength", I'm not sure if you were 100% literal about this, because if you lift slow you WILL get stronger, just not as much as if you were training like a powerlifter, who lifts explosively.
Lifting slow for around 8 reps will build muscularity. Lifting around 3-5 reps will target more strength, since there isn't enough time for the muscles to be stimulated for growth, yet the tendons and overall body will get stronger (This is how powerlifters train).
I suggest developing the muscularity AND strength so you have balance.
"For you to get strong you need to lift fast and in a way to stimulate your nervous system". Hi Wasim, can you explain this? Not really sure what your nervous system has to do with muscle growth. I was always under the impression that muscle growth was due to lacalised stimulation. Also could you tell me where you got this idea that you have to do the rep quick to develop strong muscles? It sounds like more hearsay than actual physiological facts. Hell it does not even sound like anything I heared by body builders either. If you lift quick than you are using momentum, you are jerking the weight into position.
If you lift slow you develop strength along the entire length of the muscle, which our dear Naz has elluded to already. Also doing weights quick leads to injury as not all your muscle is as strong you can overload a part without realising it. The thing about lifying quick as well as short reps is you see results quicker, however in the log run it is not as useful for the martial artist.
I would also like to reiterate what was said earlier about combining training methods. The thing about doing the powerlifting method is that it does not necessarily give you strength that lasts. Knock out power is great but if it disappears after the first two or three bursts of energy you could find yourself in trouble. I would agree with another earlier post about doing hundreds of reps of press ups, sit ups, squats etc. This type of training develops strength that really lasts in a scrap.
You really have to ask yourself why you want to weight train.
If you want to get bigger to be intimidating, then you can lift like 95% of the people at any given gym.
I prefer to train for strength. That is what I will use my training for in real life. If I need to push a car, or lift a table...or vice versa
Watever the reason I look at weights like part of my JKD..as a practice to build tools that I may need in real life. If you are going to get into grappling you will want a strong base..I have met very few good grapplers that are not muscular. And a strong core (abs and back) is always important.
Wasim is right t-mag.com is a great site. I would also do a Google search for the term functional strength. There is a lot of great information out there.
My workouts are a bit like this:
3 sets of 3 or 5 depending on how “fresh” I am
Deadlift ( I finish by carrying the bar across the room to the rack)
Side press
Bech press or dips
Chin ups ( switching grips) or Pull ups (switching grips)
Heavy weights. Slowly, so as not to jerk…about 3 seconds up hold for one, 3 seconds down and NEVER to failure. If you train to failure you are training to fail. I stop about 1 to 3 reps shy of failure.
3 sets of 10
Leg lifts
Kneeling rope crunches or Swiss ball static crunch
Back extentions
Every now and then I will throw in some seated rows, or switch squats for deads, some barbell curls, and some tricept work (pick one) but there is no set pattern on this. I used to workout in the park down the street from my old home. They had a boot camp style obstacle course. See if there are any around you it is great for functional development.
It works for me,and it does not slow me down but it does mean extra time stretching. I try to do this routine for 5 days then rest. If I am training heavy JKD or MMA and I have little fuel left, I will drop to 3 days a week
Good luck,
Xline808
www.808fitness.com
*You cannot discard what you have never obtained.*
Not to be a respond hog...but I got somthin in my craw
May 7 2004, 6:11 PM
thevonandonly wrote:
“try training your ligaments, youll get speed first but the the strentgh will come as well, just stretch them a little”
How, do tell, do you train ligaments by themselves?? And why on earth is anyone giving the advice to stretch them???? That is the most dangerous thing I have read on this post yet.
DO NOT STRETCH YOUR LIGAMENTS. Unless, you would like to raise the chances of getting a meniscus tear and needing knee replacement surgery. Stick to stretching the muscles and relaxing not forcing it. Your ligaments will stretch as much as they need to then.
jack wrote:
“Not really sure what your nervous system has to do with muscle growth.”
The CNS has everything to do with anything that happens in your body. When most people are talking about training the CNS for weights, it has more to do with strength than muscle growth, however if you maximize your ability to fire the fibers, and more fibers are being used, then you maximize the damage and repair that occurs with strength training.
“could you tell me where you got this idea that you have to do the rep quick to develop strong muscles? It sounds like more hearsay than actual physiological facts. Hell it does not even sound like anything I heared by body builders either. If you lift quick than you are using momentum, you are jerking the weight into position.”
I got 3 parts of this statement that are begging me to comment.
1. Not that I subscribe to it, but there are a number of case studies that show empirical evidence that you can build strength and muscle using explosive or fast movements. The book “Designing Resistance Training Programs” is still the standard for most Kinesiology schools and classes out there and there are a number of studies that support this fact. So it is not hearsay
2. Body builders are hardly the goto guys for this information. They are stuck in their cultish mindsets like a traditional martial artist. I have met few that looked at training the way JKDer should look at everything. And whatever they tell you, and you believe is more like hearsay…actually it is the epitome of hearsay.
3. You may or may not be using momentum when lifting quick. I have seen these guys (and look, some are body builders) that put themselves in harms way by jerking their back to get the last few curls in and it is dangerous. But, I am only guessing here, I don’t believe that anyone is suggesting that a person use bad form when lifting. You can still use good form and lift quickly…you may need to use that function in real life.
“however in the log run it is not as useful for the martial artist”
WTF do we all have to study Jack Kune Do?? This is one of those jibs I hear from time to time. Smoking a pack a day and drinking until 3 am at the karaoke bar may not be good for a martial artist, but I know quite a few very competent martial artists that do just that. Who are we to say what is going work or not work especially in the long run. I once had a very well known prominent traditional martial artist (name omitted respectfully) tell me that for his art (which I was studying at the time) it was good to have a bit of a fat belly, and not to stretch the legs because you will lose power and to never weight lift EVER. This guy was a really good fighter, and I respect him for many things. But I do not want to live an overweight, flabby, inflexible life….I still use parts of the art, but I chose my own way.
All the best,
Xline808
www.808fitness.com
*You cannot discard what you have never obtained.*
I can't believe people are getting advice on STRENGTH training from bodybuilders. Bodybuilders train for MUSCLE GROWTH. If you want to know about strength, ask a POWERLIFTER, who trains for strength specifically.
Firstly I never said you had to do it my way it was merely and opinion. Also if your the type of person always looking for the quick result than so be it, personally I think patient is a virtue. The more I train the more I realise that I need to be patient with may training as it I am looking for long term results, by this I mean things that will last a lifetime.
Secondly the CNS is not directly related to muscle growth. The CNS stimulates muscle action, the action causes the muslce fibres to work. If the muscles fibres are unable to cope satisfactually then the cells stimulate growth of more fibres. The CNS does not activate the growth of any tissue. Growth of tissue is stimulated by other signalling pathways like the hormonal pathway. These signals cause tissue to grow through a process called mitosis, not the electrically stimualted divisuion and growth of cells. So the CNS is not really the thing IN MY OPINION to concentrate on. This is why people take steroids to get bigger, they use electrical signals to tone up becuase that burns energy i.e. fat.
Going back to your point about smoking a fag and drinking, I never suggested that it was bad to do this or have to be a T total monk to be good. I would be the first to say in fact have said it on this forum several times that you do not have to be like that. Although I am myself T total my instructor who is a thousand times better than me can be a total piss head and is addicted to smoking. So how does your point apply to me? And what has smoking and drinking at karoake bars got to do with training effectively?
"Also could you tell me where you got this idea that you HAVE to do the rep quick to develop strong muscles?"
I have highlighted the "HAVE" for a reason. I did not say at any point that it was not going to make you strong in any way. It was suggested (maybe I misunderstood, but nonetheless, suggested) that you had to do quick reps to become really strong i.e. the only way to get really strong.
So Xline before you write down things that beg to be answered, read more carefully and find out a bit more about the guy your going to criticise, before you make assumptions on what he believes.
Naz Power lifters do train for power, but do they train for endurance with that power? Do they train for flexiblity or speed with that power? So it could be said that power lifters should not be listened to if you wish to train as a martial artist. Personally I listen to everyone and try to filter out what I need as a martial artist. Body builders although train their muscles for a different purpose do know interesting exercises and know alot about nutrition etc I take this info and modify it to suit my purposes. You accused me of being close minded on another thread, who is being close minded now dude? I wonder how many body building mags BL had? Quite a few from what I hear.
Umm no, YOU were the one that accused ME of being close minded you moron. Get your facts straight.
Who cares if powerlifters don't train for endurance or speed or flexibility? We aren't powerlifters so it doesn't mean we can't. I'm simply saying, if you want REAL STRENGTH then train like they do, FOR STRENGTH.
You knew what I meant, you just felt compelled to be a smartass.
These dudes don't lift any Iron and they are some of the most explosive athletes around.
Secret #1 - Stop focusing on one muscle
Paul: "In general, in gymnastics we don't focus on one muscle as much as the entire body. Just rings alone is an event that is going to build your biceps. If you do rings, your biceps are going to get bigger."
Secret #2 - Don't bother with the push ups
Paul: "We don't do too many exercises … I don't even do push-ups or anything. I don't do any cross training with weight lifting or anything. In our sport, we're lifting ourselves; it's like lifting weights constantly, so that's why our bodies look like this.
Secret #3 - Handstand Push-ups
Paul: "Let me think of a good one … well, handstand push-ups … their biceps, triceps, shoulders, a whole lot of different things … but that's one of the good exercises that we do.
Secret #4 - The ol' Alternating Descending Exercise
Paul: "When I was 7 or 8, we use to do 10 push-ups, 10 sit-ups, 9 push-ups, 9 sit-ups and so on until you get to zero. But once again you just do gymnastics. We don't really just focus on one muscle group."
Secret #5 - Dips, shoulder shrugs and more handstand push-ups
Morgan: "We do stuff on the rings where we'll do a handstand and do handstand push-ups. We do different things like dips on parallel bars, shoulder shrugs … all of that stuff is going to build your arms a lot."
Secret #6 - Strengthen your arms with a big rubber band
Morgan: "A lot of gymnasts, to prevent injury, will do shoulder exercises with thera-bands to help strengthen your arms in the opposite way. A lot of gymnastics are too strong this way (strikes a quick Hans and Franz type flex), so they do thera-band to strengthen the backside."
Secret #7 - A good place to start
Morgan: "My brother can do 15 handstand push-ups by himself. Some people, if you do it against the wall, it's a good place to start. Obviously, if you're not a gymnast, you can balance perfectly. So you put your feet up against the wall and do your handstand push-ups from there and have somebody spot you too. It helps a lot; it gets so many muscle groups."
Naz you really make me laugh. You obiviously did not understand what I meant at all. I was not refering to flexiblity in the slightest. I was refering to their goals as power lifters. Power lifters goals are more to do with lifting the heaviest weights they possibly can. Now although they can lift an incredble amount of weight, they can only do this for reletively short bursts. In combat you need to have power for more then a short burst.
It is interesting that someone put up a post about gymasts training for power becuase this was what I was thinking about as far as power training goes, although I do use weights as well.
Now you can agree or disagree with which one works better. It is really up to to individual to decide which they prefer. It is interesting to note that traditionally the arm forces do not encourage power lifting methods, but long endurance exercises with say logs as weights, to develop power that lasts. This has also been traditionally the approach in martial arts of old. It is more focused on developing ligaments for endurance than short bursts of power. Of course you could say you train endurance seperately, this for me is nonsensical. Just my opinion.
Again lol, Naz. You understood well there sunshine lol.
Xline101, when i said stretch your ligaments I didnt mean to bend over backwards or anything, just exercising them.
It gives you better control and spped and im my opinion is the best way to gain pure energy in punches without gaining mass. All your menna go is try to touch your wrist with all your fingers and tuck your thumb in untill you strart to feel a slight strain. Its from Wing Chun as far as i know
I just watched a "Loggers Championship" show on T.V., on the sports network. Man, those guys are very powerful. Instead of lifting weights over your head, go and chop some wood.
I saw pics of Oscar De-La-Hoya <*spelling*) chopping wood, he was training for some fight.
I said, if you want STRENGTH, then lift the way a powerlifter lifts compared to bodybuilders who train for muscle growth.
The only excuse you could come up with was about endurance. Guess what?!! We are martial artists, and all the skill training we do will give us enough endurance to lift for longer. If you are still not happy, then simply mix in powerlifting with a more higher rep routine.
But I don't understand why you brought that up because my initial post was about developing strength by training more like a powerlifter than a bodybuilder.
It's common sense.
This message has been edited by jiyasa on May 13, 2004 6:37 PM
No Naz I just got bored trying to beat in to your thick skull that you do not have to do powerlifting exercises to develop high levels of power. I got tired of trying to explain that powerlifters do not necessarily have the best exercises for developing FUNTIONAL power in a martial artist. Most people would take the anology with the gymnasts and understand what I was saying. So if after putting it as simple as that you can not grasp the concept then there is no more point in me writing replies, is there?
One thing I love about posts...is that they only convey the tone of the reader...not the writter..it makes for some hillarious banter.
Jack~ DOn't get me wrong, I do not mean to assume anything that you mean..I was going on what I read...I started saying that I had some thing stuck in my craw, and you say to question everything...so I questioned you. No big deal.
Without going into how motor neurons utilze the Acetylcholine to send signals to the plasma membrane...I was only making a statement that our CNS is what drives the motor funtion, and from there the muscle is actived...more activation more response..more response..more muscle gets worked..needs repair etc.
So, I will continue to "write down things that beg to be answered" in hopes that it will induce thought in myself and others.And as for " find out a bit more about the guy your going to criticise" I have read your posts, and respect the fact that you are a thinking participantwhat more do you want...a night at the movies and a pint at the pub.
vonandlonely~(look and can make fun of people through there names too) Thanks for clarifying. I was making the comment due to the fact that I see even well respected teachers giving bad advice to people around stretching..including tearing tissue to gain flexability. People come here for advice at times, the more we clarify, the better we are able to help those searching.
All the best,
Xline808
www.808fitness.com
*You cannot discard what you have never obtained.*
"WTF do we all have to study Jack Kune Do?? This is one of those jibs I hear from time to time." That is what you said plain and simple. You were accuseing me of suggesting that everyone do as I do. Yes you should question everything including what I say, however, It this was not simply a "question" because I never stated anyone had to follow my ways. You were putting words in my mouth, hence I ask you to find out a bit more about me.
Now if you meant something different, then I would recommend reading it over a few times before submitting the post.
And Naz I never said you did say, it was the only the way. If you wanna argue, argue about somthing I said. Your sounding more and more like a retard. Get with it dude.
This is my last response to this post~ if not it will go around in circles until we are just dizzy, and I thik the initial question has been answered.
Jack~ you made the statement that "however in the log run it is not as useful for the martial artist" This indicates a belief that this is a universal truth for all martial artists. Unlike a statement such as "this type of training has never helped me"
Ergo, my conclusion was that you were making a statement that a martial artist should not train this way, but instead train the way you feel is "usefull in the long run". Which is the way you train.
Right or wrong...that was my logic..so goes my statement/question.
Next topic please!!
Xline808
www.808fitness.com
*You cannot discard what you have never obtained.*
You implied it jack. You said "you don't have to do powerlifting to develop good power" thus implying that I was tryingg to say that powerlifting was the only way.
Every response on this thread you mentioned to mine has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH MY INITIAL POINT OF MY POST. My point was powerlifting is a better way to develop power than bodybuilding. THAT IS MY POINT. You're arguments had nothing to do with that, therefore, you may shut the hell up now.
Your point was "I can't believe people are getting advice on STRENGTH training from bodybuilders." Mine was simply you can get advice from bodybuilders as well as others. They know about both strength and size development. It is up to you to adapt these exercises for your own benefit. You then went on your one man quest to show that powerlifting was better. So it is you who can shut the hell up now.
Yeah, it IS better than bodybuilding at developing STRENGTH. I never said bodybuilding was useless, I just said powerlifters are the guys to get advice on weight training for strength and power not bodybuilders. I give bodybuilders credit, since they know how to correctly develop muscle growth the best, but powerlifters are the guys to turn to on how to lift weights for power and strength.
L0L