Q
why didnt bruce enter torunaments or show how good he was at fighting?
A
bruce lee trained strictly for the street,
how can you express an art designed for the street in the ring when you would completly wipe out your opponent and be banned?
thats why he couldnt/wouldnt enter tournaments because if he were to fight under lets say UFC, K1, PRIDE rules that would not be jeet kune do!
Bruce Lee would not have had an easy time with 1960's non-contact
tournament fighting. To put it another way, he would have stood
no chance at winning without a year or two of dedicated training
in non-contact sparring. Of course, if he felt that this sort of
competition was not good training for "street" fighting, he would
certainly have had my sympathy. Non-contact sparring is not a
close approximation to real fighting.
rage-against-the-machine:
> how can you express an art designed for the street in the ring
> when you would completly wipe out your opponent and be banned?
Bruce would have almost certainly lost in 1960's karate point
fighting.
Bruce's goal was to be famous. He made movies. He was not
the best fighter of his generation -- point or real.
DW Forum - You have said on numerous occassions that Bruce was not a fighter, but at the same time you say that Bruce was the first Ph.D in martial arts fighting? And you have also written about how when you first met Bruce you were really prejudice in those days, especially of little guys as fighters, what changed your mind? You also write that in those days you didn't care much for talkers, you say, "don't tell me how to fight if you never fought", you go on to say "I was a doer in those days, and I didn't care much for talkers. In other words, don't tell me how great you are, how great your style is, or weather your stuff works or not. Let's simply get in the ring and I'll find out within a matter of seconds". What was it that changed your mind and become one of Bruce's students? Why were your classes private, and were Chuck Norris, or Mike Stone taught privatly also?
Joe Lewis - Bruce told me he did not care about competing. He had no interest in it, and he said he felt there was nothing to gain by him doing so. Little guys, in my opinion, have always been the best trainers. This is because tactically very early in their careers they figure out how to conquer larger opponents. Mike Stone, who I respect, convinced me to study with Bruce. Martial arts does not have a long history as does boxing. Bruce Lee was a wealth of knowledge. No one knew what he had. Bruce Lee was proud to be the instructor of three world champions, Norris, Stone, and myself. With private lessons, he could customize each lesson to fit and compliment the attributes of the individual. I teach this way also.
lee could not afford to loose. a loss would have broken his mystic and aura of invincibility, which would have potentially negative effects on his box office appeal.
he loved western boxing and his respect and admiration for ali is well documented, therfore he obviously held some admiration and respect for sport fighting. saying or implying lee hated all sport fighting and considered it useless is stupid and lacks insight.
Hmmmmm...I've never seen anyone here say that Bruce "hated" sport fighting. And I bet Rickson Gracie loves a good boxing match, but you'll never see him box professionally. (Being from Brazil Rickson probably likes soccer too, but that's stretching the point). Clearly Bruce was impressed by boxing. Why else would he incorporate it into JKD? He also saw limitations to boxing. But doesn't everybody?
Something else to consider on this thread. Bruce's main career was acting. Yes he was a martial artist. Yes he helped train fighters. But neither of those were his main career. Think about it. How many people can you name that are pro fighters AND actors AT THE SAME TIME? Chuck Norris' acting career didn't take off until he quit fighting professionally for instance. Both career paths take time. I have no doubt that Bruce would have been able to compete competitively in point or contact fighting. As pointed out he would have needed to put in specific training for that. And? That would have taken time away from his main focus or goal.
> (Being from Brazil Rickson probably likes soccer too, but that's
> stretching the point).
Rickson likes surfing, and Renzo claims to have been a "pro surfer"
before MMA.
> Clearly Bruce was impressed by boxing. Why else would he incorporate
> it into JKD?
Yes. This is true. He acquired a great deal of western boxing
literature. In particular, many passages from Edwin Haislet's
1940 classic, "Boxing", are adapted (and in some cases nearly
verbatim) for use in "Tao of Jeet Kune Do":
i said, "saying or implying." do you know the definition of implying? also, never did i say that anyone on this thread said, "hated." but you intimated i said so. however, many people appear to believe just that.
go take some comprehension classes. the point of competition adversely effecting lee's acting career was made.
p.s. yes, i do think i'm smarter than you. check that, i know i am.
drake, i hate you now. especially, that stupid smile of yours.
Yes I know the meaning of the word "imply". I also know the meaning of the word "or" as in "saying 'or' implying". Now I know you're clearly smarter than me. Otherwise why would you use three words to say what you could say in with one? If you only meant the "imply" part you could have said "Implying that Bruce hated sport fighting blah blah blah". But then you wouldn't use up your word quota would you?
Anyway, since you want to split hairs, why did you assume that I restricted my statement to this thread? When I said "I've not seen anyone here say that Bruce hated sports fighting" the "here" meant the entire forum as in "I've never seen anyone on this entire forum say that Bruce hated sport fighting", but hey, maybe I missed that. Of course since you were using an overabundance of words you can always say "but I didn't say that". (Oh yeah. Another smiley. I forgot you hated smiles).
But I'll go a step further. Where did anybody even IMPLY that Bruce hated sport fighting? Heck I don't recall anyone implying that Bruce hated ice skating either. But what do I know?
Regards,
John M. Drake
This message has been edited by jdrake on Jun 15, 2004 5:37 PM
First Bruces training did not include point spars as it subject. Bruce trained torwards nonclassical combat modified gung fu. He did fullcontact demos. at tournements to show where he was going. Full contact did not happen until after his death. Perhaps had he been alive I think he would have done well in that circut. But we will never know. Alot of point fighters even went as far as to develop just from his movies lead leg kicks ect. People can tell you he hit hard. Yes we know a larger person with ring rules would be different. But Bruce for what he did was real . Not superman. But a real M/A that today is still a legend beyond most any founder in history. Stories get made up. Best thing JKD is worth the time to train. And might just change a persons mind about how effective it is. If they just study and not look and not know. The M/A world has come along way in thirty one years . But the truth is Not much has changed. Still boils down to how hard you train. And do you know what you know. Bruce did. Others did . Time for others has come. It has been proved no one style has the big answer. A rounded set of tools helps in most all areas. FUNNY thing is BRuce figured that out in the early 1960s. some forty years back Took a few years to catch up with his idea. Mixed M/A may not be JKD. But it I think would not have evolved with out JKD setting the course. JUST my view. We go forward from here.
words are for communication and we must be exacting in our use of words to clearly share our ideas. drake, i used to hate you but now i love you. you have a good sense of humor.
Bruce never fought in Points matches or any other competition like that because it is stupid and in no way mimics real combat. Besides when the JKD fighters do it they dominate everyone easily. JKd tries to mimic actual combat not play time points matches. And training consists of alot of full contact fighting. Bruce fought alot and wiped the floor with anyone he came up against. JKD had no use for this ring fighting (nor does any JKD fighter), since so many tools cannot be used. Live action training is much more effective. That is why Bruce never did alot of that nonsense. The real measure of a fighter is no rules and no ring just mano eh mano. Then all of the specualtion and run in a grab you and take you down goes out the window to the real techniques that will drop anyone easily.
so i guess you would have no problem challenging royce gracie, lennox lewis, or randy coture to a fight. you should go to las vegas the next time a ufc rolls around and pick a fight with one of the fighters. or simply go to the best sport fighting gym in your city and challenge someone.
fagfish, i could kick your ass.
> Bruce never fought in Points matches or any other competition like
> that because it is stupid
How is fighting in a tournament any more stupid than kicking
a 300lb heavy bag or doing chi sau? Once again you make no sense.
> Then all of the specualtion and run in a grab you and take you down
> goes out the window to the real techniques that will drop anyone
> easily.
<yawn>
Dude, there are many "competition fighters" out there whose skill
level, experience and conditioning is so superior they would PLAY
with you in a RealFight(tm).
Why do you even bother posting such rubbish? Most everyone sees
you for the charlatan you are.
For saying earlier that nobody implied Bruce hated sportfighting. I forgot NWFish posted here. To be fair NWFish's comments about point fighting aren't far off. (Is there anybody here defending pointfighting?). I wish I had the magazine quote handy where Joe Lewis said Bruce told him to pick one or the other (point fighting or full contact). That said even point fighting (aka light contact sparring) can have some usefullness in training as long as it's not the FOCUS of training. But competition can change your focus, so that can be a problem.
Anyway if Bruce had "hated" all sport fighting he wouldn't have trained (or trained with depending on your point of view) three sport fighters. On the flipside if what he had to offer was "useless" these sportfighters wouldn't have wasted time with him. He certainly saw limitations to sportfighting, but doesn't everybody?
Tournaments in martial arts terms when bruce was alive was not the same high standard that it evolved on a mass level as today. Few people even knew about, conditioning, fitness and effective pads, bag, and footwork. Bruce happened to notice these deficiency and "made sure joe lewis,mike stone, and Chuck Norris, were leaders in their chosen fields. Bruce boxing comes from wong shun leung in hong kong, a formidable street fighter who also recoginze that what is street effective. If the general standard had mass appeal as today, I think bruce would have been tempted by the might dollar and instant "well that little dragon can acutally fight and has a unique way of being ahead of the trends". Who know maybe the 80,s thing would have happened earlier and even better with better stand up game and grappling where bruce was heading. Maybe even a few exhibition bouts with Ali, or a circuit of JKD promotional tours.
Current Topic - why didnt bruce enter tournaments?
To be fair NWFish's comments about point fighting aren't far off. (Is there anybody here defending pointfighting?). I wish I had the magazine quote handy where Joe Lewis said Bruce told him to pick one or the other (point fighting or full contact). That said even point fighting (aka light contact sparring) can have some usefullness in training as long as it's not the FOCUS of training. But competition can change your focus, so that can be a problem.