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Advice on strength training with weights.

June 11 2004 at 10:50 PM
  (Login Trevor357)

 
I'm new to weight lifting and exercising with weights, I've only been doing it for a month and a half. I need a some advice on it. Bruce Lee could curl 95 pounds with one hand, and I know guys that can't, and their arms are bigger than Bruce Lee's. I'm wondering how he kept his strength, but didn't have as much muscle mass in his arm as some body builders do.The only equipment i have is a bar with up to 150 pounds, and a bench. And I also want an extremely toned core, but regular sit ups and crunches get very very boring after doing them for so long. Give me your thoughts and opinions. Knowledge is the greatest gift of all to give, service is next, then material things are last, I will greatly appreciate it if you shed some of your knowledge off to me. Thank-you.

 
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Phases
(Login Phases)

Good question for Len...

June 12 2004, 1:31 AM 

I kind of wondered about Bruce Lee's weight lifting stats, his upper body strength was very good. I can only curl 50lbs dumbbells for a max of 9 reps (2.5 inch thick DB handles), in either hand. anywho... Bruce Lee had functional strength; I don't think he changed his weight lifting routine too much, however I may be mistaken. Maybe his muscle development slowed down from a lack of variety, however, function strength doesn't really slowly down. That kind of happened with me, I lift with the same exercise, but increase the weight every time, my muscle doesnt grow much, but I could challenge someone to perform the same exercise with the same weight and they can't do it.



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(Login xcodyx)

Re: Advice on strength training with weights.

June 12 2004, 2:44 AM 

I've been doing quite a bit of research lately because I'm trying to develop a solid weight training program for myself. What I've found is that there are two different types of muscle. One is for appearance and the other for functionality. I think Bruce's was more of the latter.

 
 

(Login Trevor357)

Strength

June 12 2004, 1:50 PM 

So it is possible for someone to have a smaller muscle mass, and lift more than someone with a larger muscle mass?

 
 
Phases
(Login Phases)

Re: Advice on strength training with weights.

June 12 2004, 2:29 PM 

Powerlifters and Body builders are 2 different animals. The size and look of a muscle isnt a really good indication of how well they can perform. Bodybuilders isolate; strength athletes bring many marjor muscle groups into harmony to create an explosive movement(s).

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Anonymous
(Login RedAsh84)

Re: Advice on strength training with weights.

June 15 2004, 11:05 AM 

I think the reason Bruce was so stron yet looked so small was because of his lack of body fat. If Bruce and i stood next to each other, ppl would assume i was stroner, but if i was to be stripped of my body fat, some of that muscular apprerence would go away. Also, Bruce was strong because of his consistacy. Bruce was always training...always. His muscles were active and always at their peak. When weighttraining, u can fall off if u stop going for a little while, not because u have grown weaker, but because ur muscles are out of touch. Bruce was never out of touch with his body. A good example is when i weight lift with my friend, who is taller than me. At one point (before i exceeded him) we could do the same excercises and weight. The difference however was that the next day, i would feel perfectly fine while he was sore. Sometimes, even when im not in the mood to lift, i do only a few sets of everything, just to keep my muscles active.
Anyway, my advice about weight lifting is dont go nuts, but stay consistant. The only was to get huge is to dedicate urself alot, which means getting in the way of ur training, if u dont have time. So do it maybe three times a week. I also believe in staying toned. Dont get bulky; do a lot of cardio. The best reason for this is the element of surprise: when getting into a street fight, some muscle dude may think ur scrawny (like Bruce) but will be thrown of by ur power and strength.

 
 

(Login PersonMan)

Re: Advice on strength training with weights.

June 24 2004, 2:47 PM 

I think Bruce's relatively small size in comparison to his strength was more a combination of genetics, training and technique then just the absence of fat, he could've been a poster child for the ectomorphic body type (although a very well muscled one). He had a relatively small frame & thin wrists, a very high metabolism, he was high strung, he was frail when he was younger (before he started training and eating 1,000,000 calories), these and low body fat are all trademarks of an ectomorphic body type. If he had higher body fat he would likely be the same size, but with a gut & less definition.

Another factor to consider is muscle fiber types and ratios, I don't know very much about that but I can find articles on it if anyones curious, I think this might also be related to body type. I can also post more info on body types if any of this is new to you guys.

I hope you don't mind me posting here as I don't know any of you and have no formal JKD training. I had a little formal training in kajukenpo years ago, and I recently started training from the Fighting Method series. I've been weight training for a few years and studying bodybuilding online. I'm no MA master at all in any style, just trying to remember how to stretch, punch and kick =).

<quote>Dont get bulky; do a lot of cardio. The best reason for this is the element of surprise: when getting into a street fight, some muscle dude may think ur scrawny (like Bruce) but will be thrown of by ur power and strength.</quote>

If your geneticly thin like Bruce was this can work for you, but most people arent. If your not, then you'll overtrain your muscle away trying to get compact like Bruce, you'll still be big because it's genetic, and you'll be the exact opposite of what you want, you'll look big but be weak for your size, instead of looking small and being strong for your size.

 
 
Phases
(Login Phases)

Re: Advice on strength training with weights.

June 24 2004, 8:28 PM 

Martial Arts training should be your main cardio.

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(Login NirvanaonEarth)

Power Vs. Mass

June 25 2004, 5:06 PM 

Power= Force X Speed...

Bruce Lee would do weight training like a power-lifter. That way, he could have power rather than useless muscle mass.

That's the only explanation, my instructor at the gym that I go to is a Power-Lifter and he says that that is the reason why some scrawny looking guys can go farther in heavy lifting...

Train hard, Train well, Live on...

D.P

 
 
Jack
(Login kjax)

Re: Advice on strength training with weights.

June 30 2004, 4:32 AM 

You know what I find really funny? Is that everybody thinks Lee trained like a power lifter. Naz and I had a debate about Power lifters Vs etc, lol. The other day I was reading John Little Experession of the human body, and you know what I found out? I guess not. Any way after the Wong Jak Man fight Bruce went to two friends for help with developing his fitness and strength. I think one was James Lee and the other I cant remember. What I do remember is that they were both body builders lol. The white dude was a champion body builder as well or could have been his instructor. That is just a simple fact, look it up if you want.

At any rate, the workout regimes that people post here now make more sense, cause I always thought they seemed more like a body builders routine. I makes me laugh how much people assume of Lee.

Back to the question at hand.

There are various forms of strength training, differing in the type of muscle you wish to encourage growing and even whether you want to develop ligament or muscle growth. Other factors like how you want your muscles to growth and for what purpose you want to use them also come into play.

On the topic of mass. It is true that the more muscle mass you have the more strength you have, you can not judge muscle mass by size alone. Body builders are generally guilty of pumping. What this does is put more fluid into the muscle you have thereby enlarging it. The reason why the body does this is because the short burst of stress applied to the muscle does not require a lot more muscle but muscle that can produce short bursts for a few seconds (note this lacks endurance), hence the fluid containing energy producing mitochondria.

We take a couple of examples from the fighting world. Tito Ortis and Randy Cotour. If you look at Tito (He is not an extreme) you will notice that he has some veins poping out even at the begining of a fight. It is hard to notice Randy's veins even at the end. Why? And what does this mean? First answer is that Randy tends to train more on actaul endurance through sparring. Tito does more of this so called strength exercises. What this means is Tito's body is working hard all the time so will get tired quicker than Randy, we know his body is working harder because his veins are pumping blood so hard they are full hence visible. It also means that Tito's body is not as efficient as Randy's.

Randy has gained his strength through a slightly different but crucial method. The slow but constant resistance that you get from grappling all the time for forty years, develops dense muscle. It is density that is important in strength. Somebody else pointed out that lee trained constantly, so even if his individual exercises where like a body builders he exercised so much he was creating dense muscle. Hence it looked like this small guy was stronger that someone twice his size, when in reality he had more muscle density than the other fellow.

You can find more examples of the no vein fighter if you look at fighters from ThaiLand, look at the Gracies or Ruas. Also you will see that they have a shape that is quite simular to each other this is true for top flight grapplers. This is an example of functional strength. Their bodies have adapted to a certain shape because they perform a certain function. My shoulders are relatively big and rounded because I punch a lot in different directions, i.e. functional.

Look at how the armed forces train their soilders to be strong. Hell look at how traditionally martial artists where trained to be strong and fit to fight. You will see a common trend in high repetition and constant resistance exercises.

You can emulate this slow but constant resistance concept in your weight training. The problem with it is that it takes longer to see results. Fortunately for me I am in it for the long run.

Anyway enough of my nonsense i am hungry






Question everything, Know nothing.

 
 

(Login findog)

explosiveness

July 1 2004, 10:49 AM 

the best way to develop power for striking is to practice plyometrics.

 
 
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