Both arts have their merit. JKD is primarily a standup art. It works very well for stand up fighting. Gracie Jiujitsu (Brazillian Juijitsu) primarily focuses on ground fighting. Jeet Kune Do stresses being proficient in all ranges of fighting. Unfortunately ground fighting has been overlooked in many JKD circles. In my opinion stand up fighting is more beneficial for self defense than ground fighting. Most fights start standing up so if you get your hits in from the standup then you could possibly end it without having to go to the ground. But one may end up on the ground in a fight, so if one has training in that area then it would help them to be able to get back on their feet or to be able to withstand certain submissions from the ground. AKA it's good to know both.
I would suggest that you invest in a very good dvd called IFC: Caged Combat. Get the 5 dvd set (retail for under $30, check ebay). There are litterally a dozen NHB fights per dvd. You will see some fighters doing well in the ground game, others who can't pull anything off and some who are great in their stand up game. Now NHB fights and street fights are very, very different and do not compare but if you keep an open mind and realise that then you can watch the fights with that filter on. You will watch them with questions. Does that move work well on the street? Could another person intervene? Could that person have done something different? What if the gloves were off? What if biting was allowed? Whatever. The important thing is that those types of competitions will let you see a side to combat that is very different than what is normally seen in other MA competitions like point fighting or even full contact kickboxing. Good luck!
The question itself is inaccurate because Jeet Kune Do is not a style but that is another story. Which works better? Hmmmmm.....well depends on the situation and what you want to do with it. If you want to enter the UFC or Pride, go with Gracie Jujitsu. The rules and environment of a legal No Holds Bar fight favor the grappler. On the street? Jeet Kune Do is more well rounded with more tools and options. Still, realistically speaking, if a Gracie Jujitsu man got a JKD man on the ground even on the street, the advantage would be to the Gracie fighter. If the JKD guy hit first, hit hard, and hit always (sound like somebody?? ), then the JKD has a good chance of putting the Gracie guy in a hospital. More than styles it has more to do with what Jeet Kune Do fighter vs. what Gracie Jujitsu figher? I mean there are some JKD guys that suck and a lot of Gracies' that are great! Then there are some Gracies's that suck and the JKD guys are amazing. Now I know what the next question will be...."Ok, the best JKD fighter of all time which is obviously Bruce Lee vs. the best Gracie of all time which would be Rickson." Again, the environment is what would determine it....in the UFC, Bruce Lee would lose. On the street, I would be more inclined to give it to Bruce cause Bruce is just so fast. Who knows? We'll never know.
I mentioned the IFC: Caged Combat dvd's because there are literally a dozen fights per disk (5 disks). There are even a few JKD fighters. There were some fights where so called submission experts resorted to ground and pound because they could not submit the other person. There were also fights where the striker outclassed the grappler. There was one fight that ended after just one punch from a smaller fighter. Big guys getting outclassed by little guys. A couple of guys pulling off reverse chokes submitting guys on their feet. There were many classic fights. But it's true that on the average a great submissions specialist can do alot of damage to someone not trained to defend against them if they ended up on the ground. JKD stresses being able to function well in all ranges of fighting. Ground fighting is one range that should not be overlooked.
> I mentioned the IFC: Caged Combat dvd's because there are
> literally a dozen fights per disk (5 disks). There are even
> a few JKD fighters. There were some fights where so called
> submission experts resorted to ground and pound because they
> could not submit the other person.
I strongly agree with your post. Not to take anything away
from the effectiveness of BJJ, but the Gracies' domination
of the early UFC was not indicative of some "pure" BJJ
advantage over striking. The Gracies were all wearing
a gi before they could walk -- but they did so in a world
where striking arts were considered king (boxing, etc).
When the Gracies hand picked their opponents in the
early days, they knew exactly what to expect from strikers.
The opposite was not true. Strikers often believed they
would win with striking despite NEVER having trained to
defend against grappling.
I've seen "karate versus BJJ" video where the karateka
basically stands still like he's just seen a ghost while
he's taken down by a BJJ player. These are the kind of
MAs who get demolished on the street by untrained but
aggressive opponents.
But now we have guys who expect to be taken down despite
not being great grapplers (Cro Cop, for example). He
beat the tar out of Sakuraba (the Gracie Hunter), and all
but hammered Nog into a bloody pulp before Nog pulled off
an arm bar (Nog is the best heavyweight grappler in the
world now).
If you put, say, Cro Cop against a BJJ fighter who's never
squared off against a good striker, he's going to leave
the BJJ guy in a bloody heap. The point is, you have to know what to watch out for. This is the problem in real
fighting -- you never quite know what to expect.
It is contradictory for anyone who believes in 'absorbing what is useful, rejecting what is useless' to recognize the obvious merits of the grappling and submission arts but fail to incorporate them. If a Gracie is good at grappling but weak at striking, would you ideally fight him by using good striking alone? No. The rational answer is to at least match his skills in grappling and overwhelm him with superior striking. Is this easier said than done? Certainly, but it is also the obvious choice.
So, what is better than any one style, be it Gracie Jiu-jitsu or any other? Simple -- Mixed Martial Arts.
ok so you must just read book and watch moveo because if you realy trained jkd than you would know 1/3 of jkd is ground and jkd has the same concepe as bjj has take youre oppenet to the ground so i think you need to read some more books ok boy. becuase i train and teach 6 day's a week so get it straight boy.
and i was syaing that rickson is undefeted in over 700 fights so if some of them were street fights that poeple out wieghed him and was stronger than him but you know what he beat them and in pride to. and the guy is 43 years old and fighting poeple that are younger and stronger ok boy i think jeet koon do and gracie jiu-jitsu are good for selfdefence and the sport it is for poele who are small and not strong to defeat poele that are stronger and biger fast and quick with out puting a lot of force in it. bjjking1 done
and this was for ElMastero and every one who dose not under stand martial arts and the poeple how do it and teach it.
This message has been edited by bjjking1 on Jul 29, 2004 2:45 PM
Oh my God! Is it too much to ask for proper spelling and sentence structuring? I don't expect every martial artist to be a spelling or english teacher, but haven't any of you taken a writing course? Many of you spell like 4th graders!! Jeesh! Ok, let's take this one step at a time. Ready? Here we go. You wrote:
"ok so you must just read book and watch moveo because if you realy trained jkd than you would know 1/3 of jkd is ground and jkd has the same concepe as bjj has take youre oppenet to the ground so i think you need to read some more books ok boy. becuase i train and teach 6 day's a week so get it straight boy."
First off, you have to capitalize the first letter because you are starting a new sentence. This is true regardless of what the first word is. Second, you have to put a comma after "Ok" because you are saying basically that here is my idea. Ready? So you have to put a comma after "Ok". Third, the sentence "ok so you must just read book and watch moveo". Where did you take english class, "How to talk like Tarzan 101??" The proper way to arrange the first sentence is:
"Ok, it appears that you basically just read and watch movies, because if you really (really is spelled with two L's. not one) trained in (forgot the "in") Jeet Kune Do, then (not than. Than is used in comparisons and then is used in secondary notions) you would know that 1/3rd (forgot the "rd" cause you are talking about less or more than something.) of JKD is ground fighting (not just ground. Saying something is just ground is like saying that JKD is just grass or air LOL). From that point, you put a period at the end of the sentence because you are done with that specific idea. Concepe is not a word. You mean "concept". So you would say Jeet Kune Do has the same concepts as Brazillian Jujitsu (which isn't true because the concept of Brazillian Jujitsu is to take the opponent to the ground under any means necessary and finish the opponent off with a finishing move. Jeet Kune Do's Concept is to simply close the gap and take the opponent out as quickly and efficiently as possible. This is done a lot while you are on your feet. The ground is just one possibility but you don't want to stay or go to the ground in JKD because JKD is meant for the street. When that is the case, the opponent many have a weapon, friends, the ground could be filled with rocks, broken glass, etc. And have you ever thought what would happen if this guy you were taking to the ground was a better grappler than you? Not a good idea. The whole purpose of training the ground is that in case you do go to the ground, you know how to fight in that position just long enough for you to escape the ground because you don't want your mobility restricted. Fighting on the ground is asking for a death sentence because over 80 percent of real fights involved weapons and mass attacks. Very stupid to say that JKD and BJJ have the same strategy to survive. Anyways, back to your english lesson. Actually I don't feel like doing this all day because I have to get going. So to make a long story short, here is how your entire post should be read if it was done correctly:
"Ok, all you must be doing is watching movies and reading books all day because you don't sound like someone that has experience in Jeet Kune Do. JKD and BJJ have the same concepts in regards to fighting on the ground. 1/3rd of JKD is groundfighting and you should realize that.(I didn't bother to include that you teach cause that is a scary thought)
Rickson was involved with over 400 fights (not 700) and many of his opponents outweighed him and were much stronger. The guy is 43 years old and fighting poeple that are younger and stronger than him. Ok, (enough with the "boy" inserts....we all know that you think you are a badass). I think Jeet kune Do and Gracie Jujitsu are good for self defense, and the sport is for people who are small and not strong.
And this was for El Mastero and every one else who does not understand martial arts, and the people that know how to do it or teach it.
"Dude, do yourself a favor.....don't have kids and go back to school to take some writing classes. Lay off the drugs (if you are taking any) and start reading a lot more than you are. I am trying to help you. Please....get some help".
This message has been edited by jkddragon on Jul 30, 2004 1:44 AM
> Fighting on the ground is asking for a death sentence because over
> 80 percent of real fights involved weapons and mass attacks.
Not sure about the 80 percent, but your post is right on target.
Of the three "kill-or-be-killed" street fights I've been in,
ALL involved multiple attackers (I had mount in two and was attacked
from the "winning" position by a second attacker). Two of the
fights involved weapons.
85% of fights go to the ground. And i am just saying that jeet koon do and gracie jiu-jitsu are realy good martail arts to lean and are probley them best for srteet fighing.
and the i am talking about the good gracies not henzo or rocie,ryhen ok i am talking about the best ones like rickson,heleo,hoirin,ralph those gracie are the best fighers know and rickson has been in over 700 fights because i met him in antico,california at his brothers dojo ok boy and i like the word boy i tell ever one that is a boy and talks like a boy a boy. but lets end this ok let just talk about martial arts not spelling and how is the best fighter ok. rickson said that in rio,japan and usa he has been in many street fights poeple that think they can beat him up. so dont tell me what you read on the net ok should you be traning any ways if you were a real martail artest not a computer nerd. I am on the computer 20 min a day and that is be for i teach. do you even know who you are talking to? boy and a nother thing why on a jkd,bruce lee site is there gracie jiu-jitsu all over is and in the reading on the page boy looks like bjj is the best fighting style and you dont even know what style is.
and rickson is not going to fight for a while becasue of his sun if you dont know about that. boy
and dont tell me what jkd is i have been traning and teaching jkd for 8 years the art of expresing you self and enter self so please dont tell me what jkd is. gracie jiu0jistu is street tested and it is for the street the second you put your hand on a bjj man you are going to find your self on the ground getting chock out and without harm to you and him gentle art boys
How can someone who supposedly has taught the art of "Jeet Kune Do" can't even spell the words correctly. You spelled it "Jeet Koon Do". What the hell is that?
Anyway, JKD and BJJ, as mentioned by JKDdragon, take different paths in fighing. BJJ players are submission specialists. They tend to shoot in, take their opponent to the ground and win the fight on the ground by submission or ground and pound. JKD as taught by most first generation Bruce Lee students aka people who trained directly under Bruce Lee train mainly for a stand up fight. Going to the ground is a last resort and usually they have to be forced to the ground. Now there are some JKD instructors who have incorporated BJJ and grappling arts into their curriculum. These guys may be known as Jeet Kune Do Concepts practitioners or Functional JKD guys (of the Straight Blast Gym) and I think PFS guys as well but I'm not 100% postive on this last one. Also, some OJKD guys have also cross trained with BJJ and have taught it to their students. JKD the art passed down directly from Bruce does not incorporate BJJ. Bruce Lee may have trained with Judo Gene Lebel {(sp?) but he never trained with any of the Gracies. Hence JKD as was taught by Bruce Lee doesn't incorporate BJJ and not much Judo either.
Anyway, I don't understand why you took offense to my earlier post. I never put down BJJ, as a matter of fact I stated that it was an art worthwile to learn. To me ground fighting is another range of fighting. JKD stresses being proficient in all ranges of fighting and ground fighting is often overlooked by many (not all) JKD practitioners.
I also suggested you look into buying a wonderful NHB 5 disk dvd where you could see many fights where sometimes submission wins, sometimes the standup game was king and sometimes they resorted to ground and pound. But it's up to you whether you do or you don't.
This message has been edited by ElMastero on Jul 30, 2004 5:10 PM
dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune dojeet kune do
just stop your talking ok we bolth know that bruce lee way to exprese your self is the best martail art in the world and if he was alive today he could beat anyone on the planet ok i am just saying that rickson is a good fighter for today. but if we had a guy that could fight like bruce and put all the work he did we would have hope for jeet kune do.
Ok back to the point, yes BJJ and JKD are effective, JKD focuses on different ranges of combat, and BJJ is mostly ground and clinch. JKD does have ground fighting, but it isn't that great. BJJ has stand up fighting, but it isnt that great. Why dont we just take JKD and BJJ, and the problem is solved.
This guy bjjking1 says he teaches martial arts. Well thank God he's not a school teacher. If he was, he'd be another example of an individual that is contributing to the dumbing down of society. He might as well wear pants 3 times his size, yank his pants down to the middle of his a$$ crack, wear a New Kids on the Block shirt, dye half of his hair pink, don't shower, get a few face piercings, tattoos, and wear a baseball cap sideways and use the word "Ice" or "Doctor" as his first name because he already talks like he has an IQ of about 75.
Thank God there are also special buses and schools for people like him as well. People like him are usually spotted arguing with a wall or hitting their own face with a pillow repeatedly while saying "Hey Mr. Peanut Butter, I love the cock! I love the cock"!! while drooling over a picture of the Teletubbies or Barney.
So as sad as it may be, we still have to learn to accept people that are different than us. He's a member of society whether or not he is all there or not. And we have to help those with ADHD, Cerebral Palsey, or Down Syndrome such as our little friend bjjking1.
May God Bless His misunderstood soul.
Amen
This message has been edited by jkddragon on Aug 1, 2004 2:31 PM This message has been edited by jkddragon on Aug 1, 2004 2:30 PM
Obviuosly you gentlemen have never heard of Larry Hartsel. Also, Sifi Dan Inosanto, an avid student of combat has a BJJ black belt under the Machados (Gracie first cousins), who by the way, teach at his academy.Also, Eric Paulson Teaches at The Inosanto Academy as well. Just my two cents....
This message has been edited by JKD_SILAT on Jan 22, 2005 4:31 AM
thanks jkd silat took the words out of my moof. eric p was gonna come to my gym for a seminar but later cancelled . but yes there is a jkd grappling association. and i for one start next week . my curriculum specializes in trapping and take downs and i think silat as well since my instructor i hear is a great silat practitioner . cant wait.
Current Topic - is gracie jiu-jitsu better than jkd?
. but yes there is a jkd grappling association. and i for one start next week . my curriculum specializes in trapping and take downs and i think silat as well since my instructor i hear is a great silat practitioner . cant wait.